DeMint: What I heard in Honduras

posted at 9:38 am on October 10, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

While the White House and the State Department continue to insist that Honduras removed its president Manuel Zelaya in a coup, Senator Jim DeMint decided to do something rather basic — ask the Hondurans what happened.  John Kerry attempted to stop DeMint from traveling to Honduras in a bald extortion attempt to get DeMint to lift holds on two Obama administration diplomatic nominees, which DeMint ignored.  DeMint writes in today’s Wall Street Journal that Zelaya needed to go, and that the US has backed a megalomaniac intent on seizing complete power:

While in Honduras, I spoke to dozens of Hondurans, from nonpartisan members of civil society to former Zelaya political allies, from Supreme Court judges to presidential candidates and even personal friends of Mr. Zelaya. Each relayed stories of a man changed and corrupted by power. The evidence of Mr. Zelaya’s abuses of presidential power—and his illegal attempts to rewrite the Honduran Constitution, a la Hugo Chávez—is not only overwhelming but uncontroverted.

As all strong democracies do after cleansing themselves of usurpers, Honduras has moved on.

The presidential election is on schedule for Nov. 29. Under Honduras’s one-term-limit, Mr. Zelaya could not have sought re-election anyway. Current President Roberto Micheletti—who was installed after Mr. Zelaya’s removal, per the Honduran Constitution—is not on the ballot either. The presidential candidates were nominated in primary elections almost a year ago, and all of them—including Mr. Zelaya’s former vice president—expect the elections to be free, fair and transparent, as has every Honduran election for a generation.

Indeed, the desire to move beyond the Zelaya era was almost universal in our meetings. Almost.

In a day packed with meetings, we met only one person in Honduras who opposed Mr. Zelaya’s ouster, who wishes his return, and who mystifyingly rejects the legitimacy of the November elections: U.S. Ambassador Hugo Llorens.

Even if one accepted the Obama administration position that Zelaya was removed improperly, a conclusion that the Congressional Research Service disputes, the elections should be an opportunity to move past the problem. Zelaya couldn’t have been re-elected; the constitution of Honduras forbids presidents from seeking second terms.  Zelaya’s own party had already nominated someone else to run in that election, and that candidate and party want the elections to proceed.

The White House opposes these elections, but has shown no reason or evidence that they would be corrupted in any way.  All of the normal stakeholders in Honduras back the elections, and Honduras is bringing international monitors as it usually does to verify the reliability of the vote.  If the Obama administration truly backed the concept of self-determination, then these elections would be the rational solution to the problem that Barack Obama has mostly created.

At the moment, it appears that Obama values Zelaya more than the rule of law and more than self-determination through democracy.  Why?

Update: As Andy McCarthy explains at The Corner, the Obama administration refuses to explain why — and it’s the controversial Harold Koh whose legal opinion has been kept hidden.  Shouldn’t the “most open and transparent administration in history” get a little less opaque about why it’s cutting off aid to one of the closest allies we have in the region?

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Comment pages: 1 2

our prez is a commie for not standing side by side with this nation ……basterds…..hang in there hondurans..we will be back in a few years, when we throw these dipsticks out of office
God Bless

hawkman on October 10, 2009 at 9:41 AM

“Each relayed stories of a man changed and corrupted by power. The evidence of Mr. Zelaya’s abuses of presidential power—and his illegal attempts to rewrite the Honduran Constitution, a la Hugo Chávez—is not only overwhelming but uncontroverted.”

We could say that about Obama too.
Where is our coup…?

NeoKong on October 10, 2009 at 9:42 AM

That policy was set in a snap decision the day Mr. Zelaya was removed from office, without a full assessment of either the facts or reliable legal analysis of the constitutional provisions at issue.

DeMint is being charitable to Obama on this point. In fact, Obama and the State Dept. had been trying to provide cover for Zelaya in the weeks before his ouster.

The State department knew what was going to happen to Zelaya if he went forward with his unconstitutional behavior and they on Obama’s orders tried to forestall the political process that ousted him.

When the Honduran Congress and Supreme Court acted, Obama spitefully sided with Chavez and Castro against the Honduran Constitution.

Speak of the devil: Obama’s buddy Castro approves of Obama’s “Nobel Peace prize“.

elduende on October 10, 2009 at 9:43 AM

Creepy. Very creepy. Could it be that Mr. Obama has some sort of “deal” with Zelaya? I doubt it… I dont’ think this administration is that smart. I think they’re just so invested in this “he was ousted illegally” business they can’t back down.

That inflexibility is scary in itself. If we’ve got a guy in the White House who is so unwilling to admit he’s wrong we’ve got serious problems. But then admitting wrong doing isn’t really a lib strong point, is it?

Mad Mad Monica on October 10, 2009 at 9:44 AM

umm…I have no clue. Maybe birds of a feather, stick together.

becki51758 on October 10, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Obama needs to keep, his base happy, and to see Chavez succeed is low hanging fruit as far he is concerned.

rob verdi on October 10, 2009 at 9:44 AM

When I asked Ambassador Llorens why the U.S. government insists on labeling what appears to the entire country to be the constitutional removal of Mr. Zelaya a “coup,” he urged me to read the legal opinion drafted by the State Department’s top lawyer, Harold Koh. As it happens, I have asked to see Mr. Koh’s report before and since my trip, but all requests to publicly disclose it have been denied.

How can a legal review of a foriegn constitution be classified? This needs exploding.

Chris_Balsz on October 10, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Speak of the devil: Obama’s buddy Castro approves of Obama’s “Nobel Peace prize“.

elduende on October 10, 2009 at 9:45 AM

Each relayed stories of a man changed and corrupted by power. The evidence of Mr. Zelaya’s abuses of presidential power—and his illegal attempts to rewrite the Honduran Constitution, a la Hugo Chávez—is not only overwhelming but uncontroverted.

We could say that about Obama too.
Where is our coup…?

NeoKong on October 10, 2009 at 9:42 AM

I suspect you’re right about the two men being similar – but I think you are wrong that both changed. Obama, and probably Zelaya as well, were tyrants when campaigning (but hid it from those who did not want to look), and haven’t changed a bit.

ManUFan on October 10, 2009 at 9:47 AM

This is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of: a Latin American dictator tries to extra-constitutionally install himself as president for life. An American president with a messianic complex who has voiced disdain for the “negative rights” in the U.S. Constitution supports the dictator, and criticizes implementation of the rule of law to oust him so another can be constitutionally elected. Hmmmmmmm…

It’s gonna be a long 4 years.

Rational Thought on October 10, 2009 at 9:48 AM

Perhaps Obama sees a socialist, wannabe dictator having his ambitions cut short as a personal dis-acknowledgement, a kind of Munchausen (?) by proxy attack upon his own presidency?

Probably in over my head here. My wife still confuses me.

Robert17 on October 10, 2009 at 9:49 AM

At the moment, it appears that Obama values Zelaya more than the rule of law and more than self-determination through democracy. Why?

Most important aspect of this issue… If Obama needed to side with Zelaya in order to keep his base happy, then we are truly facing irreversible differences between the two bases in our country. A fight between Americans for the soul of our country seems more likely with each passing week.

Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 9:50 AM

At the moment, it appears that Obama values Zelaya more than the rule of law and more than self-determination through democracy. Why?

Why? In the Obama world, “we don’t need no stinkin’ laws.” That’s why. Obama makes the rules cuz he’s Obama. See yesterday’s award if you need any more reasons.

Grantman on October 10, 2009 at 9:50 AM

You narrow minded bunch of Freedom-loving Capitalists. Remember, Mr. President said to judge him by the company he keeps…and the people he supports.

kingsjester on October 10, 2009 at 9:51 AM

Ya but Beck is a kook.

With lot’s of crazy conspiracies.

/

artist on October 10, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Um, so much for not meddling in other country’s affairs?

artist on October 10, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Probably in over my head here. My wife still confuses me.

Robert17 on October 10, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Beautifully stated!!! :)

Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 9:53 AM

Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 9:50 AM

OT
Keemo, how’s the Baucus recall going? Good I hope.

yoda on October 10, 2009 at 9:54 AM

We need to stop Chavez before he gets any more powerful. If not, then he will be around as long as Castro causing trouble in the area. We need to stand with the people of Honduras and get it right this time, or they will fall like Cuba did after the Bay of Pigs.

Kissmygrits on October 10, 2009 at 9:54 AM

The White House opposes these elections

…….

What about the elections in Iran?

Where there was VIOLENCE in the streets.

Oh, right.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 9:54 AM


As all strong democracies do after cleansing themselves of usurpers, Honduras has moved on

Becoming apparent that we a “USURPER” here as well.

there it is on October 10, 2009 at 9:54 AM

Ed, you ask why?

In all of Obama’s actions he has never given us reason to believe it’s about anything other than power.

Judge a man not by his words but by his deeds. There you will find his soul.

Obama is drawn to the dark side in every issue, decision and associate.

DeMint is as generous as he can be with Obama but the sooner we realise, admit and stand up to exactly who Obama is, the more swiftly we can stop the current tide of destruction. If we “hope” it’s not real…we’re dead as a country.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 9:55 AM

As far as Obambi is concerned. What he is saying but, without the guts to say it is, “paybacks are bitch America. We have been wrong so long that it is only right to support Zeyala. We have to spread it around a little”.

sheriff246 on October 10, 2009 at 9:56 AM

A couple of thing that the current “acting” President told the OAS, that have gone missing in the US are:
1) there has not been a “budget” for the last 9 months
2) Zelaya had started to use the Honduran treasury as a personal “piggybank” using “emergency powers”
3) Zelaya refused to fund the Electoral Commission in charge of running the November election.

J_Crater on October 10, 2009 at 9:56 AM

The White House opposes these elections, but has shown no reason or evidence that they would be corrupted in any way.

There’s your answer, right there. The elections would not be corrupt – no ACORN to fiddle the vote.

OldEnglish on October 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM

DeMint is as generous as he can be with Obama but the sooner we realise, admit and stand up to exactly who Obama is, the more swiftly we can stop the current tide of destruction. If we “hope” it’s not real…we’re dead as a country.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 9:55 AM

+10

Only, I think this country is finished.

It is in fact, too late. We are merely buying time.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM

There are only three plausible explanations for the Obama administration’s behavior:

1) Incompetence and cover-up
2) Pro-socialist strong-arming.
3) Some mixture of #1 & #2 above.

Pick your poison.

elfman on October 10, 2009 at 9:58 AM

At the moment, it appears that Obama values Zelaya more than the rule of law and more than self-determination through democracy.  Why?

Obama cares not a whit about the rule of law, except when it advances his own power-grabbing agenda.

Self-determination through democracy? This would be too much to expect from someone who identifies more with tyrants, like the Iran leaders, than with those who seek freedom from oppression and fair elections.

TXUS on October 10, 2009 at 10:01 AM

How much more evidence do we need before we call Obama and the democrats exactly what they are?

Good grief … they eat, sleep and piss communism.

They.Are.Communists.
Everyone say it now …

darwin on October 10, 2009 at 10:02 AM

yoda on October 10, 2009 at 9:54 AM

Very difficult, as we have asked for and received absolutely no help with getting the information out. We currently have around 2K signatures; we need 10K in order to move this procedure to the next level. We have asked just about every news outlet here in Montana, and have been literally hung up on by most. We had one talk radio guy talk about our project and give out the site information, which worked really well in the area of his programming. I asked several right minded bloggers for help, none of which even replied to my request.

However, we keep moving forward with our efforts here in Montana to make our fellow Montanans aware of the ultra Liberal agenda taking place at the hands of elected Democrats that are hiding their agenda with the help of the Liberal media. The grassroots army we are building here in Montana is growing by the day… So we trudge forward!

Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 10:03 AM

Why you ask?

BECAUSE HE [OBAMA] IS JUST AS CORRUPT AS THEY [CHAVEZ, CASTRO, ZELAYA] ARE. ALWAYS HAS BEEN. ALWAYS WILL BE. HE’S A CHICAGO POLITICIAN. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?

Griz on October 10, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Maybe Zeleya is a dry run. To see how things “pan out”. So Dear Leader gets a guinea pig.

5u93rm4n on October 10, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Michael Z. Williamson wrote a book titled Freehold. It is about an earth settled planet founded on our Constitution. It is different because the whole planet follows it. The earth is under UN rule. The book is copyrighted in 20004. For Ayn Rands philosophy updated I would ask you to read this book.
“If a man neglects to enforce his rights, he cannot complain if, after a while, the law follows his example.” Oliver Wendell Homes

Grayzel on October 10, 2009 at 9:55 AM

Grayzel on October 10, 2009 at 10:05 AM

Each relayed stories of a man changed and corrupted by power.

A kindred spirit for BO.

davo on October 10, 2009 at 10:05 AM

It is in fact, too late. We are merely buying time.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Don’t give up artist… I’m now 56 ripe years of age, and I have seen these times before. What we are seeing now is very similar to what I witnessed under Carter and the beginning years of Clinton. Back in the Carter years, we basically had Rush as our only line of communication and spreading of information (truth.) Our abilities to combat the ultra Liberal agenda has increased 10 fold since the days of Carter. Join in your local grassroots efforts and help to make a difference. Liberalism must be disguised as something other than what it really is, which is why Obama-Piglosi-Reid must lie about their agenda in order to move anything forward.

The truth will set us free…

Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 10:08 AM

However, we keep moving forward with our efforts here in Montana to make our fellow Montanans aware of the ultra Liberal agenda taking place at the hands of elected Democrats that are hiding their agenda with the help of the Liberal media. The grassroots army we are building here in Montana is growing by the day… So we trudge forward!

Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 10:03 AM

I have a feeling that other states will be trying to duplicate your efforts if all of the spending continues from both parties. Good luck to Montana!!!!!

yoda on October 10, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Only, I think this country is finished.

It is in fact, too late. We are merely buying time.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM

I often feel that way, too. Quite often. On the other hand, the US hasn’t actually lived in Third World status yet. Let’s see how the sheeple like it: massive, ongoing unemployment; out-of-control inflation; political leaders gratuitously and shamelessly “eating cake” while the rest of us starve; total lawlessness as the left decides it can “seize” — income, property, life itself — at will; and absolutely no health care at all — we won’t be able to afford it.

I still don’t think it’s going to be as easy to turn this country into a bunch of beggars as Obama and the far left think it will. His socialist policies will only work until the producers are no longer producing, and that won’t take long. Then, all hell breaks loose, and I think “all hell” in a nation like ours will be quite different than all hell in a Latin American sh•thole.

These are indeed dangerous times, but dangerous because of the horrible policies Obama will attempt to enact — and dangerous because of what the citizen reaction might be. Latin American dictators count on being able to bust heads and imprison and kill “dissidents.” I just don’t think that’s going to work out so well in this country.

Rational Thought on October 10, 2009 at 10:09 AM

This is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of: a Latin American dictator tries to extra-constitutionally install himself as president for life. An American president with a messianic complex who has voiced disdain for the “negative rights” in the U.S. Constitution supports the dictator, and criticizes implementation of the rule of law to oust him so another can be constitutionally elected. Hmmmmmmm…

It’s gonna be a long 4 years.

Rational Thought on October 10, 2009 at 9:48 AM

A possible answer to the question (Why?) is that Obama already has plans to set aside our Constitution and make himself President for life when the time comes and he is wanting to establish another legal precedent (to add to that of Chavez and Evo Morales) for his future actions. One of the reasons he uses most for any and all of his policy initiatives, from health care reform to cap and tax is: “Everybody else is doing it so we should too!”

Ordinary American on October 10, 2009 at 10:10 AM

yoda on October 10, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Amen, and thanks!

Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Only, I think this country is finished.

It is in fact, too late. We are merely buying time.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Gulp…

If there is any chance to survive this onslaught, it will be through the sovereignty of individual states.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM

“..the US has backed a megalomaniac intent on seizing complete power.”

George Bush is the new President of Honduras?

I always knew that Obama and Bush were secret friends.

percysunshine on October 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Rational Thought on October 10, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Well said.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM

At the moment, it appears that Obama values Zelaya more than the rule of law and more than self-determination through democracy. Why?

Obvious. Zelaya is a role model.

iurockhead on October 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM

percysunshine on October 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM

The thread’s not about Boooosh. Do try and keep up.

kingsjester on October 10, 2009 at 10:15 AM

If there is any chance to survive this onslaught, it will be through the sovereignty of individual states.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM

I agree with that. It is not at odds with thinking this country, as it is, is finished.

We’re going to have an Alamo moment.

On a much larger scale.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 10:16 AM

I don’t see how we can take 3 more years of this administration.

ronsfi on October 10, 2009 at 10:21 AM

“..the US has backed a megalomaniac intent on seizing complete power.”

George Bush is the new President of Honduras?

I always knew that Obama and Bush were secret friends.

percysunshine on October 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Where your head is at you haven’t seen the sun shine for years.

Grayzel on October 10, 2009 at 10:21 AM

These are indeed dangerous times, but dangerous because of the horrible policies Obama will attempt to enact — and dangerous because of what the citizen reaction might be. Latin American dictators count on being able to bust heads and imprison and kill “dissidents.” I just don’t think that’s going to work out so well in this country.

Rational Thought on October 10, 2009 at 10:09 AM

If it goes that far, the deciding factor will be if our military backs him.

a capella on October 10, 2009 at 10:22 AM

We’re going to have an Alamo moment.

On a much larger scale.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 10:16 AM

I believe this to be true also… Something must give. Our country was built on a foundation consisting of our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and a system of checks and balances. We have those who treasure our foundation, and those who demand the demolition of our foundation in favor of something completely different. These two powers are on a collision course. Couple that with the fact that Americans have armed up, and we have a “crossroads” moment a-coming.

Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 10:22 AM

Why? It destabilizes.

Everything Obama does is designed to destabilize us so we’ll all say that America/capitalism/freedom/justice can no longer exist, that the world is post-American, post-capitalist, post-freedom, post-justice.

justincase on October 10, 2009 at 10:23 AM

As all strong democracies do after cleansing themselves of usurpers, Honduras the U.S.A. has moved on.
IBD 2012.

Prayin’.

Christian Conservative on October 10, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Obama listens to whatever Chavez and Soros tell him to do.

In regards to the Honduran system, there has always been one term limits since I can remember. The most beautiful thing is that there is a South American country that actually follows it’s constitution and respects it. (Unlike some of the politicians here in our own country.)
Harold Koh is a dangerous leftist, among others, setting asinine decions under veil with no accountability. Hopefully DeMint, Miguel Estrada, and Andy McCarthy starts the ball rolling.

On a side note, DeMint is showing great leadership. I hope the senate GOP wises up and makes him the leader.
Thank you Senator DeMint!

cubachi on October 10, 2009 at 10:24 AM

If it goes that far, the deciding factor will be if our military backs him.

a capella on October 10, 2009 at 10:22 AM
>>>>>>>>>

Could be why he’s pissing off people like McChrystal and Petraeus… If the true Americans in the military leave in protest it leaves true America unprotected.

justincase on October 10, 2009 at 10:25 AM

At the moment, it appears that Obama values Zelaya more than the rule of law and more than self-determination through democracy. Why?

Envy. Countries like Honduras and Venezuela have populations that are much more susceptible to iron-handed dictatorships than ours ever has been – or ever will be. It’s much easier to quiet the masses when dissidents can be made to just disappear, and when martial law can, and frequently is, imposed to silence any complainers.
Obama doesn’t believe in self-determination; he and his posse don’t think the general public is capable of making intelligent decisions on any subject without government intervention. To be able to “drop the hammer” and rule by decree is the dream of every socialist – they just haven’t figured out how to do it as efficiently as the Third World has.

uncivilized on October 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM

I think this is indicative of this entire Administration’s stuck-in-the-80s attitude in foreign affairs. Far from being a man of “change,” Obama and his advisors are recycling tired and thoroughly discredited 1980s Institute for Policy Studies notions about nuclear disarmament, Central America, and the Middle East.

In this paradigm, Chavez and Zelaya are the modern version of Daniel Ortega, the revolutionary all the American Left was in love with. Honduras during that time was a bulwark of democracy and anti-Communism, and the American Left has never forgiven Honduras for supporting the anti-Communists in El Salvador and Nicaragua. They cannot seem to accept that the people of Central America themselves have rejected Sandinista-style Communism, and especially that the Honduran people voted for a Constitution that specifically provides an iron-clad defense against the establishment of a Communist dictatorship. They want to de-legitimize Honduras’ elections in order to avoid recognition of the government that will be fairly and peacefully elected.

I don’t think it helps our side to go throwing around conspiracy theories about Barack Obama using Zelaya as a test case for himself. The reality is much more prosaic: Obama is simply a child of the 80s Left. These people have never given up their dream of a socialist revolution in Central America that would eventually lead right to our border.

rockmom on October 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Back in the Carter years, we basically had Rush as our only line of communication and spreading of information (truth.) Keemo on October 10, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Rush went national in ’88. I remember Ronald Reagan somehow cut through all the libtard static and got through. Having an economy in the crapper also helped establish 12 years of semi rational rule.

Mojave Mark on October 10, 2009 at 10:28 AM

Gulp…

If there is any chance to survive this onslaught, it will be through the sovereignty of individual states.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM

The Constitution of 1797 was enacted after the United States under the Articles of Confederation failed to protect the borders, sustain a national economy, or float a common currency. For 230 years the lesson was remembered by Washington. It may have to relearn it, but our current system was born out of chaos and failure, so Doom is not a certainty.

Chris_Balsz on October 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM

It really is scary how obtusely Obama is clinging to labeling this as a “coup.”

The BEST scenario is that Honduras is an unfortunate prop and Obama is using it to cravenly try to curry favor with Chavez and Iran and Castro and prove his bonafides to the moral equivalence crowd (a big part of his base) by doing so.

The worst case scenario is that he really does believe in the mob-rule-is-democracy-is-always-legitimate thing, and he’s planning on doing something similar here and justify it on the basis of being “democratically elected.” Beck harps on this all the time and is always hinting that a Chavez like transformation is coming someday with controls on broadcasting and populist economic policies.

They’ve already started taking over businesses and it’s pretty clear that the whole healthcare debate is the first volley at the expanding entitlements and locking up the vote.

And since I have a little bit of a conscience I always feel bad for pointing this out, but Obama was elected by the ignorant hordes and, as those clips that Rush played this week about “Obama’s stash”, it’s rather clear that a large segment of the electorate doesn’t care or know about economic policy so long as they get a handout. They they get a vote equal to mine – or anyone who posts here – makes me depressed as hell.

johnmackeygreene on October 10, 2009 at 10:31 AM

If the true Americans in the military leave in protest it leaves true America unprotected.

justincase on October 10, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Nah. Never underestimate the patriotism and fortitude of the American GI. I’ve lived and worked with them for most of my life. They won’t let us down.

uncivilized on October 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM

To be able to “drop the hammer” and rule by decree is the dream of every socialist – they just haven’t figured out how to do it as efficiently as the Third World has.

uncivilized on October 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Hence Obama’s call for a civilian force “as strong and as well-funded as our military.” We need to throw these tyrants out before their Americorps is as strong as our military.

Christian Conservative on October 10, 2009 at 10:34 AM

kingsjester …”The thread’s not about Boooosh. Do try and keep up.”

Sooo..your proposition is that Bush was not like Obama in supporting megalomaniacs.

percysunshine on October 10, 2009 at 10:34 AM

These people have never given up their dream of a socialist revolution in Central America that would eventually lead right to our border.

rockmom on October 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM

What?

Their dream is a socialist revolution right here, in America.

No need to wait for anything.

It’s happening NOW.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 10:35 AM

September 10 I received a letter from N.C. Senator R.Burr about my concerns on this Administrations interference on Honduras – He was also concerned and told me he was following it closely .. point is our leaders are corrupt with power – remembering what happened when the Clinton’s left the White House – not only were the Dems sore losers they were deconstructive to “our” property – we shall see what happens after this next election – I remember the video of Maxine Waters at an accorn event summer of 2008 ( I think )predicting the Dems take over of the country – Wow just Wow..

wheels on October 10, 2009 at 10:35 AM

They’ve already started taking over businesses and it’s pretty clear that the whole healthcare debate is the first volley at the expanding entitlements and locking up the vote.

johnmackeygreene on October 10, 2009 at 10:31 AM

True, but you can’t lock up the vote if everyone’s out of work. The candidate who promises jobs — money in voters’ pockets — gets elected. The great debate going on right now is government solves problems (Obama and the left) versus government is the problem (the right). If the problems are still here, or worse, in 2012, Obama loses. He knows that. So, what will he do?

Rational Thought on October 10, 2009 at 10:36 AM

It’s one thing for Republican senators to allow confirmation of these crazy people. I, somewhat, understand the thinking behind the bipartisan attempt to allow the president to have his chosen administration. But if they are going to ignore obvious problems with nominees then they are going to have to be twice as vigilant when these folks make crazed (but expected) decisions. And considering how ineffective the Republicans are, they may want to consider standing against the president’s crazy choices to begin with.

Cindy Munford on October 10, 2009 at 10:36 AM

This Admon. is so sneaky,like someone on this site said, you have to watch what the other hand is doing,
They cut off aid to a nation that is trying to maintain their freedom from dictatorship.
(AND WATCH THIS LEFT HAND) in June 2009 Nancy Pelosi voted to re-instate millions of dollars to the UNITED NATIONS POPULATION FUND, a fund that Bush cut off because money was going to China to fund a program on EUGENICS, sound familiar think HOLDREN.
I am a senior and am terrified at what is happening to our great country. WE SHOULD KNOW WHERE OUR TAX DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT , I just pray it’s not to late.

concernedsenior on October 10, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Rational Thought on October 10, 2009 at 10:36 AM

People without jobs are more likely to approve of entitlements. Even though they may look at it as a stop-gap for themselves, everyone becomes hooked. The lack of jobs is no accident.

Cindy Munford on October 10, 2009 at 10:38 AM

It may have to relearn it, but our current system was born out of chaos and failure, so Doom is not a certainty.

Chris_Balsz on October 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM

+1

katy on October 10, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Obama’s problem, as well as the rest of the Far Left and like-minded people orund the world, is that they do not believe in and do not understand, American Exceptionalism. It is more than just a slogan. It a love of freedom passed down from our Founding Fathers, the concept of self-reliance, tempered with compassion and national pride, and the gratitude for sacrifices made on our behalf by heroes, living and dead. Obama is a man elected by a narrow margin who believes he was given a mandate. Like all egocentric individuals, his arrogance will be his undoing.

kingsjester on October 10, 2009 at 10:43 AM

WE SHOULD KNOW WHERE OUR TAX DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT , I just pray it’s not to late.

concernedsenior on October 10, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Make it a habit of going to http://biggovernment.com/ and read the daily “Pork Report”. It will make you ill.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 10:43 AM

***

I don’t think it helps our side to go throwing around conspiracy theories about Barack Obama using Zelaya as a test case for himself. The reality is much more prosaic: Obama is simply a child of the 80s Left. These people have never given up their dream of a socialist revolution in Central America that would eventually lead right to our border.

rockmom on October 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM

This is as good of an explanation as any. The situation in Honduras is one of simply too many situations that Obama needs to called to account for. Where do you start?

I just wish conservatives in Congress would divide up the issues and start screaming to the public and to the press about the wrongs of the Obama administration. I’d like it to be that any time a particular member of the GOP steps forward, I already know that he or she will be talking about, say, one of two or three issues. Right now, their voices are too fragmented and, as a result, they are not getting through. Obama’s response to what’s going on in Honduras blows my mind, but it’s somewhat down on my list of outrages.

Conservatives waste their time responding to sh*t like the Olympics and the Nobel prize, and the look ridiculous and it consumes airtime from issues that really matter. In the case of both the Olympics and the Nobel prize, a shrug and a response (Olympics–”that’s too bad for Chicago; congratulations to Rio”; Nobel–”that’s great, congratulations to the president) followed by a question on any of the following: “What’s the president doing about [the employment, Afghanistan, Iran, healthcare, energy policy, trade policy, Honduras, pick your issue].”

BuckeyeSam on October 10, 2009 at 10:45 AM

I don’t think the Obama administration even knows why.
Fools.

bridgetown on October 10, 2009 at 10:45 AM

There is no need for conspiracy theories to explain Obama’s behavior.

Stupidity is sufficient.

To most people in Obama’s circle, this is just pay back for the Honduras government’s support of Reagan and the Contras in Nicaragua.

They are still living in the 80s, and they think that by doing this they are cleansing America of the “stain” of violently opposing communists in the Americas.

It is true that we went so far as to support or acquiesce the overthrow elected governments that were communist (Chile/Argentina), however those were exceptions rather than the rule, and from the perspective that communism is inherently undemocratic, could be considered justifiable. Although almost all of the communist takeover attempts were actually quite undemocratic, that is not the mythology among the Ivy league left. Guess where Obama went to school?

Just go over to dailykos and check out the comments on Honduras. It’s all about the evil “death squads” that Reagan supported that are supposedly suppressing the Honduras people from expressing their true preference for Zelaya.

Essentially American domestic policy disputes are now being used as guides for foreign policy decisions. A horrible, horrible development.

But not a conspiracy. Just typical liberal stupidity.

Sackett on October 10, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Only, I think this country is finished.

It is in fact, too late. We are merely buying time.

artist on October 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Gulp…

If there is any chance to survive this onslaught, it will be through the sovereignty of individual states.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM

True to some extent Katy, but do not discount the will of the individual who still flys our flag with pride, who still believes freedom and liberty are not just words for history books. The tea parties were but a small fraction of the individual that will rise up and say “hell no, I will not submit to an oppressive government that challenge’s my faith in this great nation or the patriots that died to maintain it”. Artist, you are wrong! This nation is far from “finished”. You have underestimated the will of its people, each one of us, constitutionally bound by our rights. No one party or government will take this away with out the fight of their political lives. 2010 will be an awakening the liberal left never saw coming, nor their appeasing President who has desecrated our independence and sacred sovereignty.

Rovin on October 10, 2009 at 10:46 AM

percysunshine on October 10, 2009 at 10:34 AM

W was not a perfect man. There was only One. As I wrote earlier, this thread is not about Boooosh. It is about Barack Hussein Obama, who is supporting the dethroned despot, Zelaya. Nice try at hijacking the Thread, Scooter. Epic Fail.

kingsjester on October 10, 2009 at 10:46 AM

How is he any different from democrats going to Syria. What did he hope to accomplish other than making the pres look bad?

tomas on October 10, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Sooo..your proposition is that Bush was not like Obama in supporting megalomaniacs.

percysunshine on October 10, 2009 at 10:34 AM

No, our “proposition” is that Bush isn’t president anymore – or didn’t you hear about that election thing back in November?

uncivilized on October 10, 2009 at 10:49 AM

B-rock is down with eternal presidencies. A-JadVezStro are his heroes.

cpr on October 10, 2009 at 10:50 AM

This makes me sick to my stomach. I hope it’s not foreshadowing anything in our near futures.

p0s3r on October 10, 2009 at 10:51 AM

The White House opposes these elections, but has shown no reason or evidence that they would be corrupted in any way. All of the normal stakeholders in Honduras back the elections, and Honduras is bringing international monitors as it usually does to verify the reliability of the vote. If the Obama administration truly backed the concept of self-determination,[er, democracy] then these elections would be the rational solution to the problem that Barack Obama has mostly created.

So, is Obama naive or evil? Discuss. Hint. Those who think he’s naive are themselves naive.

Basilsbest on October 10, 2009 at 10:59 AM

p0s3r on October 10, 2009 at 10:51 AM

ummm, go to Drudge and find the pix of Obama and Pres. Christina Fernandez de Kirchner. Read the article below it. That may give you an indication where we are going.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 10:59 AM

He sees in miniature in Honduras what he wants to do here and it frightens him how quickly the people turned on their Marxist overlord and curtailed his power. Can’t have such examples running around, especially in this hemisphere!

Orange Doorhinge on October 10, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Rovin on October 10, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Rovin, I am torn at times. I see zombies driving in their cars with Obama stickers and shake my head. I hear co-workers talking about diversity and social justice and they don’t have a clue that they are talking about communist values! Then I go to a tea party rally or the local gun show and connect with passionate patriots that are bound and determined to fight this one out and stand firm till death.
I know there are more of us but like in the last election, this next one will be so ripe with fraud we may end up in the streets and IRAN will be sending us tweets of encouragement and support.
ACORN and SEIU will be the final nail if we don’t do something bold. What… I don’t know.

katy on October 10, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Communist Bozo backs Zelaya for the same reason he stood by complacently and quietly while Ahmawhackjob brutalized the people of Iran.

These two delegitimized their authority to govern by their actions against the people and the people acted. We have seen the people of Honduras remove their illegitimate despot wannabe and I think the Iranians will soon remove the tyrants that enslave them.

Bozo desperately fears these acts. He plans to usurp the power of the people of the United States and he doesn’t want us to get the idea that we can remove him.

Presidents after all are merely citizens and we must stop elevating them to godhood. Its sickening.

dogsoldier on October 10, 2009 at 11:06 AM

At the moment, it appears that Obama values Zelaya more than the rule of law and more than self-determination through democracy.  Why?

If the O team unsealed the Koh legal opinion then we might know rather than speculate. Why won’t they publicize it? What are they hiding? De Mint needs to share what is in that report, if only verbally.

conservative pilgrim on October 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM

John Kerry attempted to stop DeMint from traveling to Honduras in a bald extortion attempt

Didn’t he serve in Vietnam?

Del Dolemonte on October 10, 2009 at 11:09 AM

From El Heraldo last night.

07:03pm

Asesor. “Queremos que la presión aumente, sobre todo la presión del gobierno estadounidense. Vamos a aprovechar ahora el Premio Nobel de la Paz que Obama tan merecidamente recibió para que él ejerza esa presión”, dijo Marco García, asesor del presidente Lula.

http://www.elheraldo.hn/

Translation:

Advisor. ” We want the pressure to increase, especially from the U.S. Government. We are going to take advantage of the Noble Peace Prize President Obama has so deservedly won and can now use to increase the pressure (on Honduras)”, said Marco Garcia, advisor to President Lula (da Silva of Brazil)

What a pathetic joke.

elduende on October 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM

I just wish conservatives in Congress would divide up the issues and start screaming to the public and to the press about the wrongs of the Obama administration

Agree. Along that line, it seems to me that Conservatives need to figure out a way to teach American History (the REAL not the revisionist history) to the public. (I see Christian TV trying to do this, but never secular. Secular TV history is always slanted to the left.) They need to teach about the failures of socialism everywhere it has been tried. They need to teach the value of their principles vs. the left. They need to teach the real truth of what party stood for civil rights back in MLK days. (LBJ would never have had a Civil Rights law had it not been for Congressional Republicans.) What we have it seems to me is that the public school system has brainwashed kids, not taught them truth, and has poisoned kids to hate America, and infused them with White Guilt or Black You-Owe-Me attitudes. We need to figure out how to teach truth to these people. Maybe it comes from conservative movie makers (I think there are a few out there), or from a push to have school vouchers in America, or segments on Fox News (some of that is ongoing), but until it happens, we are stuck with 50% of the country wanting a hand-out above all.

Christian Conservative on October 10, 2009 at 11:11 AM

By the way, the political crisis has been put on hold for today as the Honduran national soccer team goes up against the US. Expect a very hostile crowd and a lot of booing of our team there today folks.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/10/09/2009-10-09_us_soccer_team_heading_to_honduras.html

elduende on October 10, 2009 at 11:14 AM

People without jobs are more likely to approve of entitlements. Even though they may look at it as a stop-gap for themselves, everyone becomes hooked. The lack of jobs is no accident.

Cindy Munford on October 10, 2009 at 10:38 AM

I know that’s conventional wisdom, and of course I worry about the entitlement-reliable voter intersection, BUT Americans do not have a history of mere subsistence. The American way is to grow and prosper. A candidate offering subsistence entitlements can very easily be defeated by a candidate offering opportunity and prosperity. If Obama becomes the “government cheese” candidate in a bad, bad jobs climate, he’s done. A majority of Americans don’t have a government cheese mentality…yet. And I think it’s a hard path to change this country from “America, where anything is possible” to “America, where the government gives you the bare minimum to survive, and you’ll never, ever have more than that.”

This nation is unique. Its values are unique. The “American Dream” isn’t a mere myth; it’s an expectation. Turning this into a nation of beggars and government servants is going to be harder than Obama understands. There is a reason why the democrats and the far left rely on voter stealing operations to win elections, and why Obama is so keen on extra-constitutional grabs for power.

Rational Thought on October 10, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Constitutions? Sovereignty?

PFFFFFT.

It’s all about transnationalism, dude. From the Andy McCarthy link:

As Ed Whelan and I pointed out when (Harold) Koh was up for confirmation, the former Yale Law School dean is the nation’s leading transnationalist. He has zero respect for national constitutions (including ours), preferring a post-sovereign order in which international law profs, transnational organizations, and free-lancing judges will be our overlords. What is happening with Honduras is exactly what anyone who familiarized himself with Koh’s record would have predicted.

IrishEi on October 10, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Imagine that some one like Sen. DeMint decided to go to the source and ask a few questions.Then low and behold he finds out that there was no military take over the people of Honduras were just following there Constitution some thing our congress should do for a change.But this does not sit well with the one and his band of lackeys.They think we need more fine leaders like the one you know socialist.

thmcbb on October 10, 2009 at 11:20 AM

The White House opposes these elections, but has shown no reason or evidence that they would be corrupted in any way. All of the normal stakeholders in Honduras back the elections, and Honduras is bringing international monitors as it usually does to verify the reliability of the vote. If the Obama administration truly backed the concept of self-determination, then these elections would be the rational solution to the problem that Barack Obama has mostly created.

At the moment, it appears that Obama values Zelaya more than the rule of law and more than self-determination through democracy. Why?

Update: As Andy McCarthy explains at The Corner, the Obama administration refuses to explain why — and it’s the controversial Harold Koh whose legal opinion has been kept hidden.

Danger, indeed.

Also, I’m quite proud that Jim DeMint went to Honduras and ignored John Traitor Kerry’s bombast to do otherwise.

Lourdes on October 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM

less opaque about why it’s cutting off aid to one of the closest allies we have in the region

Under the Obama regime, the US has been working hard to divest itself of allies and old friends. It makes no sense and looks sinister. I wondered if Obama is so afraid of his own incompetence that he’d settled on a “What would Bush do? I’ll do the opposite” strategy. But in many cases, he’s doing exactly what Bush did, but just calling it something different. In a country with a pro-American and inquisitive press, he’d already be a lame duck.

I’m now seriously wondering if perhaps the (paranoid for certain) “Obama wants to be a dictator, so he supports dictators” theory is actually true.

ROCnPhilly on October 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM

In a day packed with meetings, we met only one person in Honduras who opposed Mr. Zelaya’s ouster, who wishes his return, and who mystifyingly rejects the legitimacy of the November elections: U.S. Ambassador Hugo Llorens.

That is a damning statement.

Vashta.Nerada on October 10, 2009 at 11:24 AM

2010 will be an awakening the liberal left never saw coming, nor their appeasing President who has desecrated our independence and sacred sovereignty.

Rovin on October 10, 2009 at 10:46 AM

And if it’s not? What then? It seems to me that too many people have allowed things to go too far, as it is. Perhaps artist is correct – it’s too far gone.

OldEnglish on October 10, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Harold Koh — who I’ve said was an outrageous threat to our nation before he was placed as head attorney for the U.S. State Dept. — is a “transnationalist” whose on the record as stating that the U.S. should be “subject to international law” and that our Constitution is not only subjectable to such but is also a document that can/should and ought to be modified to accommodate cultural changes, among other aspects (that the Constitution is “living” which means, terribly, that it can and should be modified to accommodate rather than it is to be followed/adhered to by all) (the term, “living document” is entirely misleading).

Koh opines that Shari’a Law should be functional/implemented in the U.S., also.

He’s essentially someone with “a foreign mind and conscious” who is going about demanding the U.S. be modified to accommodate the demands of others, other governments, other nations, other cultures. That is, quite terribly, that Koh is of the mind that the U.S. IS NOT A SOVEREIGN NATION (is not independent, subservient to none, is not self-determing).

So it does not surprise me that Koh’s opinions in this regard (Honduras) are remaining hidden.

Lourdes on October 10, 2009 at 11:27 AM

^^ should read: “…a foreign mind and conscience”…

Lourdes on October 10, 2009 at 11:28 AM

^^ should read: “who has a ‘foreign mind and conscience and consciousness…”

Tired, leaving.

Lourdes on October 10, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Vashta.Nerada on October 10, 2009 at 11:24 AM

You know what scares me the most about Obama? The fact, that Hugo Llorens, who is an extremely capable and well regarded diplomat, who has served honorably up until this point can openly support this farce of a policy without batting an eyelash. It reminds me of Hannah Arendt and her warnings about the banality of evil.

elduende on October 10, 2009 at 11:32 AM

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