CBO: Baucus’s ObamaCare bill would reduce deficit by $81 billion over 10 years
posted at 5:36 pm on October 7, 2009 by Allahpundit
Tough stuff. I think Stephanopoulos is right about how the GOP will spin it — $829 billion over the next decade to insure fewer than 10 percent more of the population? — but this does give The One political cover on his heretofore Big Lie about ObamaCare being “deficit-neutral.” Especially since CBO is the agency that’s been tormenting him for months with projections that the program will cost vastly more than the White House claims. Now, finally, they’ve handed him a politically salable option.
You can read the full 27-page letter at NRO. The money line in the section on budgetary impact: “Those estimates are all subject to substantial uncertainty.” Expect that to be a key GOP talking point given that (a) amendments to Baucus’s bill will wreak havoc with this analysis and (b) Medicare’s initial projection of $12 billion in expenditures for the year 1990 turned out to be “uncertain” too. How uncertain? Actual 1990 expenditures ended up at $107 billion, a cool 800 percent higher than Congress thought they’d be. Woe unto him who relies on any conservative estimate of how much a giant social program will cost.
Even so, I’m troubled by this Red State item posted shortly before the CBO news dropped claiming that Republicans were ready to cave on several key health-care provisions, including the public option(!). That’s implausible, but less implausible now than it was before CBO blessed Baucus’s bill as a deficit-cutter. They’ll never endorse a public option lest the base revolt, but if the White House starts pushing Baucus’s plan as a money-saver, the polls may move and purple-district House Republicans may panic. (Er, are there any purple-district Republicans left? There’s Joe Cao and, um…) Exit question: Whither Waterloo?
Update: The early GOP spin:
Any Democratic response to the CBO report will be “tricky,” says the aide, especially since the Baucus bill is still not defined in legislative language. “Democrats will have to find a way to thread the needle between their promises, the president’s promises, and the reality. The president, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid have said that they wouldn’t add a penny to the deficit. Still, not one poll shows the people believing that. Costs will go up and people aren’t buying the Democrats’ claims.”
“This bill is still the worst of all worlds and the CBO’s report is preliminary,” the aide concludes.
You’ll be hearing the word “preliminary” a lot in the next few days. Meanwhile, Bob Dole puts the GOP on the back and urges them to sign on the dotted line.
Update: Gulp.
The estimate removes a major hurdle toward a vote in the committee, because several senators said they needed to see the cost breakdown before casting a vote – in particular, Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), who could be the only Republican senator to support the legislation.
A Senate Finance vote is not expected Thursday, but perhaps Friday, Senate aides said.
Blowback
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Most Americans will never go along with anything that is violent. They just will not. After all, like it or not they elected these idiots.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM
///
I think the rules are changing though.This country still has alot of proud Americans that won’t go down easily.
ohiobabe on October 7, 2009 at 6:32 PM
I have written my stooge Senators (Cornyn & Hutch) and politely, but firmly let them know that I thought it would be wise of them not only to clearly oppose the ObamaCare bill (whatever that may be), but also to make sure Texans know that they oppose any legislative trickery designed to pass the bill in spite of the will of the majority of the people.
Of course, I expect to receive a bland, automated reply, as is usually the case when I ask those WOFTAM(s) to actually represent me.
mr.blacksheep on October 7, 2009 at 6:32 PM
81 billion – from 13 trillion.
Yeah, right. What a great “reduction.”
A Democrat by any other name, folks . . .
Ryan Gandy on October 7, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Worst. Birthday. Ever.
citrus on October 7, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Sounds like Rahmmy Tutu got to the CBO.
farright on October 7, 2009 at 6:33 PM
They won’t think of it as going down, they will think of it as some dumb ass thing the Democrats did and then they will vote them out and repeal it..if they are not willing to do that, they sure as hell are not going to turn into the Confederates or something.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:34 PM
No NO NO.
This will be the tipping point and the collapse of our nation.
Damn the RHINOS! Take a stand conservatives!
Buckeye Babe on October 7, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Wonder how many dead fish “Twinkle Toes” sent out to the CBO as a threat?
yoda on October 7, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Nuf said.
JeffinOrlando on October 7, 2009 at 6:36 PM
Maybe, or it could be that they learned how to get around it. They did not actually write the legislation yet, so it is vague, they did not include any amendments either. I think maybe they just found a way to make the numbers look good.
And they raised taxes and fees and cut medicare and medicaid.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:36 PM
Yes, they’re passing all the costs on to the states except for of course, Illinois.
orlandocajun on October 7, 2009 at 6:37 PM
Of course all those socialist systems that you hate are cheaper than ours and a good dozen of them deliver better care. Tort reform you can have although no one serious thinks it will save more than 3-4% of costs. The cost of illegals is negligible, as well.
You should really consult the facts rather than your odd, Cold War delusions.
You’re not seriously calling me a communist, right? It’s like when I used to call Bush a facist I wasn’t really accusing him of plotting to turn the country into a militaristic, repressive dictatorship, I was just saying I found his policies disturbingly conservative in kind of an overheated way.
Because if you are seriously calling me a Mao-quoting, private property-abolishing, dictatorship of the proletariat kind of guy, that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day.
Bleeds Blue on October 7, 2009 at 6:37 PM
Well played with the teaser image, AP.
Trent1289 on October 7, 2009 at 6:38 PM
they sure as hell are not going to turn into the Confederates or something.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:34 PM
///
You might be in for a rude awakening.Who knows what the public will do if this massive over-reaching happens.
ohiobabe on October 7, 2009 at 6:40 PM
If anyone believes this will reduce the deficit by $89 billion is completely nuts. COMPLETELY.
We need to take it to the streets folks.
Oink on October 7, 2009 at 6:40 PM
No need to blame the RINOs. Making it about one Republican or whatever is not the point. The truth is the Republicans are almost irrelevant here because they don’t have the votes to stop this and the Democrats {if they can stick together} have the numbers to pass it.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:40 PM
LOL pass it!
Theworldisnotenough on October 7, 2009 at 6:40 PM
Most Americans … in fact no American has ever confronted a government that is blatantly trying to change our form of government. This government is the worst enemy we face today. Obama is actively trying to remake the country into a Marxist paradise. There is no denying that.
Guns and ammo haven’t been flying off the shelves for months on end because people will just take whatever Obama wants to shove down their throats.
darwin on October 7, 2009 at 6:41 PM
That’s a fantasy. If this insanely un-American (and incredibly stupid) health care fiasco passes, America will have been killed. Period. Many realize this. There will be no repealing or anything of the sort. This will be the end.
States that still identify with American foundations and traditions will see the Constitution as having been rendered null and void by the federal government breaking it and they will, rightfully, secede to start a nation that carries ont he American spirit and law. The leftist filth can stay and drown in their own vomit.
progressoverpeace on October 7, 2009 at 6:41 PM
Bleeds Blue, that entire statement is one big fat lie.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:41 PM
We’re screwed. This is the slow, steady march to a European-style nanny state. I’m willing to bet there will be a full fledged public option in the final bill…we can’t count on the GOP to stick together, and the Blue Dogs will waver. It’ll be heralded as a huge triumph, and once its begun the GOP will be forced to defend it and forever cementing their status as Democrat-lite.
Ugh.
changer1701 on October 7, 2009 at 6:42 PM
why are the conservatives talking about Obama etal are cutting medicare and social security.
uber on October 7, 2009 at 6:42 PM
Party down folks, free health care!
VAT next up.
and the sick and elderly don’t have to worry, the government will take care of you.
r keller on October 7, 2009 at 6:42 PM
Yes it is about the single RINO Republican. We must take them out as we take out the weak democrats. If the liberal Republicans want to be part of the big tent of conservative Republican politics, then they need to get in it. We aren’t moving the tent to cover them.
archer52 on October 7, 2009 at 6:43 PM
progressoverpeace:
I do not agree.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Because our market pays for all the research and devlopment of medical advancement, which those leech systems draft off of, you blithering idiot. When we stop funding that, medical advancement slows to a crawl and everyone in the world suffers. But you don’t care, because you’re too stupid to understand that.
No, they don’t.
progressoverpeace on October 7, 2009 at 6:44 PM
Oh come on..how many times when Republicans were in control of the Congress, did we see votes to nationalize health care? None, never.
The point I am making is that dozens of Democrats are a lot more a problem than one Republican.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:45 PM
Guns and ammo haven’t been flying off the shelves for months on end because people will just take whatever Obama wants to shove down their throats.
darwin on October 7, 2009 at 6:41 PM
////
My point exactly.This crap that is going on is nothing we have known before,we meaning right here today,and people are not going to lay down and let those weak ,spineless. gonadless,sorry excuses for leaders tell us what is best for us.
ohiobabe on October 7, 2009 at 6:45 PM
before everyone loses spirit a few facts:
In short Calm down, we are outnumbered in Congress but have managed to thwart more then the media and the left could have possibly imagined. Patience comrades, patience.
rob verdi on October 7, 2009 at 6:46 PM
Beck was talking today about a lot of permits being requested and issued for DC on a near-future date but was cryptic while talking about it; anyone know what that is all about?
Bishop on October 7, 2009 at 6:46 PM
Deficit reduction by massive spending increases. Gotta spend to keep from going bankrupt.
Just come clean and say what you want: a single-payer nanny state with “private” companies working as little more than government contractors.
spmat on October 7, 2009 at 6:46 PM
I’d argue that none of them are better. Our cancer survival rates would back me up on that. And 4% of 1/6 of the economy is a ton of money that could be saved pretty easily.
Either way, this CBO report is devastating. It allows sqiushes like Snowe cover to vote for it, and allows the Legacy Media to completely stop talking about all the horrible stuff in the bill itself. This is all you will see on the news from the debate moving forward.
I’m curious if the CBO used dynamic tax analysis in this report. I know there have been reports that they were going to, and I can’t believe they would just use the ‘gold-plated’ tax numbers without some in depth analysis to determine what the impact of the tax itself would be.
BadgerHawk on October 7, 2009 at 6:47 PM
There is no way in H*ll this bill will save ANY $$. It is impossible. When they tax the cadillac plans, they will dry up. Then where will the revenue come from? Deficit spending. This is stupid. An exercise in futility. And Bleeds Blue is an *sshat. No sense even debating his false premises. He has nothing to back up his assertion that some of the socialist countries have better care. B/c they don’t. Period. Tort reform would save 10% right off the top. Talk to any OB or radiologist. As for illegals, we don’t have the physicians now to service 310 billion Americans. How are we going to service another 15 million, genius? You aren’t very bright.
JAM on October 7, 2009 at 6:48 PM
Guns and ammo haven’t been flying off the shelves for months on end because people will just take whatever Obama wants to shove down their throats.
A lot of people are afraid there will be changes in gun laws and they want to get their guns now. I don’t think they all want to take on the US Army in armed revolution. And that kind of talk is a gift to Democrats. It really is.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:49 PM
You’re simply wrong. We’re number one in costs per capita, 20 in preventable deaths, mediocre in waiting time, pathetic on infant mortality and life expectancy.
Tort reform article.
Illegal immigrants.
You need to follow Sarah’s advice and stop makin’ stuff up.
Bleeds Blue on October 7, 2009 at 6:50 PM
The ONLY ways ObamaCare can save so much as a single penny are rationing, imposing price ceilings or outright cutting medical programs/devices/medicines once the government runs healthcare.
Dark-Star on October 7, 2009 at 6:50 PM
Well fine then. I suppose that’s why Americans go to Canada and Mexico for health care, because it’s cheaper and soooo much better than what we have here. Texas enacted tort reform and if I remeber correctly inusrance premiums already went down by 20%.
The cost of giving medical care to illegals is negligible? Are you trying to be funny? LA County alone spends millions each year just birthing babies from illegals. Where do you get your info? The Obama Daily Socialist?
Obama was mentored by a communist, his peers were communist and he’s appointed several to his administration and their goal certainly isn’t to forward capitalism. If you agree with Obama’s goals then either you are a communist, have communist sympathies or are totally blind to what the man is trying to do.
That’s not funny and you shouldn’t be laughing. If you are the answer is the latter.
darwin on October 7, 2009 at 6:51 PM
I hope you are right.
I am taking myself out of this thread for now till I calm down a bit.
nyx on October 7, 2009 at 6:51 PM
I don’t think it is cryptic, they are just changing the laws there and people are getting guns because they are legal now.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:51 PM
BleedsBlue:
Oh please. That is just crap.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:52 PM
Obviously this is good news for Obama, but Republican opposition to these bills were never limited to what it would add to the deficit. Unfortunately, many constituent concerns were. And rather than pushing other reasons to the forefront, it seems we let financial concerns define the debate for many.
Though this is a significant setback, I hope we can now reframe the debate, as this was never even the main argument most conservatives were concerned with in the first place. But with most of the media on the Dem side, I’m not all that optimistic.
As a side note though, I have to say that I’m surprised by this CBO finding. Is it all because of Babyboomers and Medicare?
Esthier on October 7, 2009 at 6:52 PM
A lot of people are afraid there will be changes in gun laws and they want to get their guns now
////
I guess we’ll wait and see won’t we?As our freedoms slowly get taken away,we’ll see.
ohiobabe on October 7, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Good Lord, a rational argument. I hope to play dueling stats — seriously — with you sometime but must dash to a stereotypically yuppie event with the wife.
3-4% would be significant, but some estimates are much lower (link above).
It’s tough to measure how “good” a system is but with so many uncovered, the arbitraryness of the insurance system and the stats I mention above, I’m thinking we’re not number one.
Bleeds Blue on October 7, 2009 at 6:54 PM
The military is not a friend of the left. You’d be hard pressed finding any military member obeying a command to fire on their own countrymen.
darwin on October 7, 2009 at 6:56 PM
What the heck is Bob Dole smoking? This awful legislation has not been resolved because it is primarily a Dem vs Republican conflict. It is not a party issue. It is a division between defining the role of the federal government and recognizing its Constitutional limits, as well as being a debate over fiscal bankrupty.
onlineanalyst on October 7, 2009 at 6:56 PM
They scored a bill that only uses conceptual language. Wait until it gets into legislative language and the details are spelled out… No way this gets passed by either side.
karlant on October 7, 2009 at 6:57 PM
mandates? Tax increases? FOCUS ON THE REAL COSTS.
marklmail on October 7, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Bleeds, you’re generally reasonable, so I don’t believe that you mean to be making things up, but you need to know a few things. There are lies, damn lies and statistics. Always remember that.
For instance, in the USA, we record all live births as, well, lives births. In other countries, coincidentally the ones beating us in that stat, they only record those with specific measurements, length and weights, thereby not bringing down their numbers with babies born alive but unlikely to survive.
You can’t compare these stats and come up with an accurate conclusion. Moore feel into the same problem with his Sicko in that he even used stats from different years and then tried to make his case.
We do have problems here, but they’ve been greatly exaggerated for political means. I know you don’t support that.
Esthier on October 7, 2009 at 6:57 PM
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/070826/3healy.htm
We lead the world in Neo-natal care. Just ask Bernadine Healy, MD and Medical editor of US News.
We do not have wait times like in Socialist countries and we do not have areas of our country where they only perform twelve specific surgeries a yr. like they do in some Canadian provinces. Our innovation is the best. That adds more $$ to everyone’s costs. We’ve been over this a dozen times and libtards like Bleeds Blue keeps trotting out all of the debunked arguments. If you can’t come up w/some thing new for F*ck sake, then shut up and go away!
JAM on October 7, 2009 at 6:58 PM
You’re a yuppie? I’ll try not to hold it against you.
Esthier on October 7, 2009 at 6:59 PM
I own a gun and I live with a man who has a small arsenal. This is something, I actually know a little about. I don’t think people are just buying guns because they want to take on their government.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 6:59 PM
No problem. I’m always here to show you the light. Glad to see you’re back to making somewhat substantive arguments instead the devolution into one line partisan attacks that was BleedsBlue v.September09.
BadgerHawk on October 7, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Bleeds Blue:
What makes you think anyone wants to have a conversation with you? I mean really.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 7:00 PM
They’re buying guns because they don’t trust their government.
progressoverpeace on October 7, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Obviously, Rahmbo has been visiting the CBO offices…with his knife.
dthorny on October 7, 2009 at 7:03 PM
Cheer up. It could be worse. Your birthday could be tomorrow, like mine is. Happy Birthday, Olympia Snowe caved in, the bill passed committee. :/
Mallard T. Drake on October 7, 2009 at 7:03 PM
Sigh.. Does every liberal think that the amount spent on healthcare measured in GDP is a real measure of cost? The only information to derived from this single statistic is that Americans spend more on healthcare as measured by GDP. That’s it…
Maybe try comparing and contrasting system. Switzerland has an individual mandate and a wide open insurance market. Only the poorest get subsidies. I’m sure you aren’t advocating we emulate that? 80% of French citizens get taxed for universal care yet have insurance policies to pick up the slack. And care is alot less universal in France they are having to control costs by not covering people they used to cover like retirees from England that went specifically for the healthcare. They do not get it any more. And if these socialist system are that much better, then why are our survial rates from diseases that are expensive to treat so much better? Do we spend more on those expensive diseases? Could be…
The costs of tort are dynamic. Less defensive medicine, less lawyers are neccesary to defend healthcare providers, less lawyers on the plaintiff side. Lower insurance premiums (which includes nursing facilities, hospice, you name it)
“Since April, UMC has been spending about $2 million per month providing emergency dialysis services to 80 illegal immigrants, Brannman said.
He projects that these services at UMC could run more than $24 million in the current fiscal year.”
http://www.lvrj.com/news/53343302.html
And that is just ONE hospital, a hospital with a 70 million dollar defecit!
Do I really need to post articles on the crushing effect illegal immigration has had on healthcare in California? Or would you refute dozens of hospital closings in areas of high illegal immigration as coincidence?
Theworldisnotenough on October 7, 2009 at 7:03 PM
progressoverpeace:
Really? Well I bought mine for self defense, and Gale has been buying guns for decades because he likes guns. I never once heard him say that he bought his guns because he did not trust his government.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 7:04 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121037876256182167.html
Mississippi’s tort reform success!
JAM on October 7, 2009 at 7:04 PM
I just heard the panel on Special Report and they did not think this was any big deal. The numbers meant nothing, because the bill is not final. And Democrats don’t like it.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 7:05 PM
They don’t like it because unions aren’t exempt and the middle class is going to get saddled with a huge tax.
jhffmn on October 7, 2009 at 7:09 PM
I never owned guns until I started reading and realizing who and what the democrats really are, and what the goal is. Now I own several.
darwin on October 7, 2009 at 7:09 PM
CYA if I ever heard it.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 7:10 PM
And nearly every one of those nations that rank higher than us do so on the basis of using technology and pharma we bankrolled, tested, got FDA approved and distributed, and those technologies that didn’t originate here only came into being because there existed a market for them here.
Much like Europe’s childish experiments with socialism during the last half of the 20th century which were subsidized by our military expenditures and presence protecting them, those lumbering single-payer systems are able to min-max their statistics (which are compiled by bureaucrats for bureaucrats) because they don’t worry with innovation. The world’s current level of medical advancement is due almost wholly to the robustness, adaptability and vibrancy of our free markets.
Oh, and even you should be able to understand this:
BUREAUCRATS DON’T INNOVATE.
They’re in the business of maintaining the status quo and insulating themselves with more bureaucracy.
spmat on October 7, 2009 at 7:10 PM
Good, that’s positive.
misslizzi on October 7, 2009 at 7:10 PM
I’m trying to get permission to get one because I think what I want might be illegal in a few years.
I think a lot of people are thinking the same thing which is why AR-15 sales are through the roof.
jhffmn on October 7, 2009 at 7:11 PM
When you are taxing and fining people to pay for this in excessive amounts I can see how this would reduce the deficit but the people get screwed.
cadams on October 7, 2009 at 7:12 PM
darwin:
You have a right to bear arms, I believe that. However, if people make a habit of threatening revolution when they don’t like a bill or whatever, it just makes it that much easier for Democrats to pass them off as extremists and fringe elements.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 7:12 PM
I think that is true.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 7:13 PM
ROFL,,,,,THE FIX IS IN>
unseen on October 7, 2009 at 7:14 PM
Want to reframe the debate? Let Sarah Palin do it. She seems to have more inertia with one Twitter post than the sum total of Charles Johnson’s fulminating against creationists.
-T
The Therapist on October 7, 2009 at 7:14 PM
I smell quid pro quo.
Vote for this bill, I’ll put more soldiers in Afghanistan..oh, you can keep McChrystal, too.
I bet I can get even odds on this in Vegas.
BobMbx on October 7, 2009 at 7:15 PM
Government intervention always saves loads of money. Just look at the Post Office.
viking01 on October 7, 2009 at 7:16 PM
We will just have to wait and see what this means. I think this is far from over.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Its time I started drinking, I think. I’d love to be optimistic about this, but when you don’t trust your own side’s “leaders” to stand up for you its kinda hard to do.
changer1701 on October 7, 2009 at 7:16 PM
viking:
An interesting thing, the post office is actually one of the few things that government was supposed to do, it is in the Constitution. Roads and post offices.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 7:17 PM
Come on, you can’t let them wear you down.
misslizzi on October 7, 2009 at 7:20 PM
No no no, not GUN permits, permits to gather in DC, as in protest something.
Bishop on October 7, 2009 at 7:20 PM
nyxe,
remember, even Rush conceded something will pass. The only question is how damaging. Through the hard work of many people we have been able to limit some of the left’s agenda. Small comfort, but a necessary step for when we are back in the saddle.
rob verdi on October 7, 2009 at 7:20 PM
My M4 is teh awesomest.
BadgerHawk on October 7, 2009 at 7:21 PM
The left has preached revolution for years … and they meant it. By any means necessary. Overthrow the government of the United States and build their socialist utopia.
The right never protests … rarely speaks up. They are now because the left is finally in the White HOuse and prepared to finish what they’ve dreamt of.
This is deadly serious. I see no point in pussy footing around. Our own elected government has called us Nazi’s and terrorists and imply that they’re watching out for us.
No one is calling for revolution, but when Congress willingly rejects the will of the people very few options are left.
The main reason I bought firearms was not to revolt but to protect my family should everything go south … or Obama’s thugs start feeling frisky.
darwin on October 7, 2009 at 7:23 PM
Somehow I don’t think some of this stuff is going to fly.
This little nugget just sort of jumped out at me.
Oldnuke on October 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM
Obama care is like destroying the village to save it.
Dhuka on October 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM
Does it happen to mention how much taxes on all kinds of medical supplies will go UP in order to pay for this “deficit-reducing” bill? I mean if you increase taxes on everything, wouldn’t that reduce the deficit at least on paper until everything becomes too expensive that nobody can afford it and so nobody buys it anymore and businesses go out of business because nobody’s buying their products anymore?
I think the Democrats motto should be: Great Intentions Until You Hit All of Those Unintended Consequences.
The more I watch them, the more I want to have that serious talk my dad had with me when I was about 15 about money not growing on trees. I swear they are like teenagers with unlimited credit cards, and we’re the wimpy parents who can’t say NO!
UnderstandingisPower on October 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM
Everyone will suffer so that no one shall suffer.
Dhuka on October 7, 2009 at 7:26 PM
You can’t have been touting the other CBO report and then say this one is BS…
WisCon on October 7, 2009 at 7:26 PM
LOL…
this number just prooves that by RAISING fees and taxes enough, you can make it Revenue Neutral to the FEDERAL Government…
Of course… that money has to come from somewhere…
Romeo13 on October 7, 2009 at 7:26 PM
That is why we shouldn’t have been talking about the money. It’s all about freedom and liberty.
Sxyrzrbck on October 7, 2009 at 7:28 PM
But the public is familiar enough with Democrat fantasies-gone-bad that they know that’s exactly what they’ll get.
ddrintn on October 7, 2009 at 7:29 PM
Get Kruathammer’s analysis from Special Report tonight. It’s devastating.
Buy Danish on October 7, 2009 at 7:31 PM
[Krauthammer].
Buy Danish on October 7, 2009 at 7:31 PM
and kils many senior citizens y reducing the health care they get
bill30097 on October 7, 2009 at 7:32 PM
How is that a good bill? ALL that money and time to cover 29M people, but still leave 25 M uninsured – uncared for, and a drain on the system?
they are just paring down until they can come up with a deficit neutral number…it’s not about coming up with the best plan.
sarainitaly on October 7, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Why in the world would anyone believe that this would be the first cost estimate of a government program that would be anywhere near accurate?? The empirical evidence shown by the history of government “cost estimates”..even in good economic times..would have a rational mind at least double any government estimate.
Also, how is any estimate arrived at that doesn’t have the legislative language agreed on and legally binding?
Are people actually going to change their minds and start believing the government competent and functioning with the interest of the people as their goal??
Wake up people, or we’re screwed.
Itchee Dryback on October 7, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Don’t forget…
… the politicians, bureaucrats, and unions are exempt from this nightmare.
Have a nice day…!
Seven Percent Solution on October 7, 2009 at 7:41 PM
Though I am referring to what the Post Office (with recent enormous losses) has become not what it originally was intended to be. In the same light of how Public Lands morphed into how many gallons of water your shower head or toilet can use. Every new bureaucracy created in DC eventually starts to grow as if it were its own government.
viking01 on October 7, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Oh dear. Is Bleeds Blue getting his clock cleaned in a thread again?
Really BB, it’s about time you ended your delusional little love affair with Europe and came to terms with a reality you’ve obviously avoided acquainting yourself with your whole life.
I’m European born and bred. I’ve experienced health care systems on both sides of the pond. The quality of American health care is the best in the world, period. You just have no idea what you’re talking about. I had skin cancer a few years ago, was uninsured and yet still chose to stay in America and pay for it out of my own pocket rather than fly back to the UK and play life-roulette with the sluggish, outdated, ration-based NHS. In fact I was told that even though I would have to have surgery within 6 weeks to maintain a 95% survival chance, I would wait at least 12 weeks on an NHS list. I went ahead and paid the money right here in New York and it was the most worthwhile money I’ve ever spent in my life. I asked how soon I could have the surgery and they said “when are you next free?”
It’s also about time that liberals like you stopped insinuating that the health of a nation is determined solely by quality of health care and not culture. Here’s a little thought experiment: what cultural differences between Europe and America are you aware of (diet, lifestyle etc) and in what ways do you suppose these differences could affect health statistics even before you take health care into consideration? Perhaps you’re one of these liberals who believes it’s the role of the state to engineer society and that diet and lifestyle changes should be enforced by the government. I would not put it past you.
Also, kindly respond to the arguments put to you in this thread regarding the unearned economic advantages Europe enjoys due to the American taxpayer footing a large proportion of their defense bills, as well as the question of free market innovation and the extent to which socialized health care systems around the world could not exist without the medical innovation financed in the US.
Sharke on October 7, 2009 at 7:43 PM
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