CBO: Baucus’s ObamaCare bill would reduce deficit by $81 billion over 10 years
posted at 5:36 pm on October 7, 2009 by Allahpundit
Tough stuff. I think Stephanopoulos is right about how the GOP will spin it — $829 billion over the next decade to insure fewer than 10 percent more of the population? — but this does give The One political cover on his heretofore Big Lie about ObamaCare being “deficit-neutral.” Especially since CBO is the agency that’s been tormenting him for months with projections that the program will cost vastly more than the White House claims. Now, finally, they’ve handed him a politically salable option.
You can read the full 27-page letter at NRO. The money line in the section on budgetary impact: “Those estimates are all subject to substantial uncertainty.” Expect that to be a key GOP talking point given that (a) amendments to Baucus’s bill will wreak havoc with this analysis and (b) Medicare’s initial projection of $12 billion in expenditures for the year 1990 turned out to be “uncertain” too. How uncertain? Actual 1990 expenditures ended up at $107 billion, a cool 800 percent higher than Congress thought they’d be. Woe unto him who relies on any conservative estimate of how much a giant social program will cost.
Even so, I’m troubled by this Red State item posted shortly before the CBO news dropped claiming that Republicans were ready to cave on several key health-care provisions, including the public option(!). That’s implausible, but less implausible now than it was before CBO blessed Baucus’s bill as a deficit-cutter. They’ll never endorse a public option lest the base revolt, but if the White House starts pushing Baucus’s plan as a money-saver, the polls may move and purple-district House Republicans may panic. (Er, are there any purple-district Republicans left? There’s Joe Cao and, um…) Exit question: Whither Waterloo?
Update: The early GOP spin:
Any Democratic response to the CBO report will be “tricky,” says the aide, especially since the Baucus bill is still not defined in legislative language. “Democrats will have to find a way to thread the needle between their promises, the president’s promises, and the reality. The president, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid have said that they wouldn’t add a penny to the deficit. Still, not one poll shows the people believing that. Costs will go up and people aren’t buying the Democrats’ claims.”
“This bill is still the worst of all worlds and the CBO’s report is preliminary,” the aide concludes.
You’ll be hearing the word “preliminary” a lot in the next few days. Meanwhile, Bob Dole puts the GOP on the back and urges them to sign on the dotted line.
Update: Gulp.
The estimate removes a major hurdle toward a vote in the committee, because several senators said they needed to see the cost breakdown before casting a vote – in particular, Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), who could be the only Republican senator to support the legislation.
A Senate Finance vote is not expected Thursday, but perhaps Friday, Senate aides said.










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This legislation doesn’t include a public option. Libs will never allow it to pass.
amerpundit on October 7, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Yeah, when the IRS makes FOUR BILLION from fees and penalties from those NOT BUYING HEALTHCARE.
Get the (&$#* off my lawn, government!
HornetSting on October 7, 2009 at 5:39 PM
If the GOP caves, scratch the 2010 midterms. A third party is in order.
nyx on October 7, 2009 at 5:39 PM
The CBO may have seen the req for the bunker-busters w/a memo attached that the delivery was being processed for their address.
-
RalphyBoy on October 7, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Oh, they’ll get their public option. I just hope Republicans don’t provide cover, although there’ll probably be a gaggle of them to do just that.
ddrintn on October 7, 2009 at 5:39 PM
No way would Obamacare reduce the deficit. It is mathematically impossible.
Guardian on October 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Don’t care, I don’t trust any of them.
Washington is corrupt and incompetent.
Kill the bill.
NoDonkey on October 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM
CORRECTION
If the GOP caves on healthcare, they are the most useless feckless and incredibly ******
nyx on October 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM
LIARS.
javamartini on October 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM
No, if the GOP caves, it’s going to have to be “get rid of any and every incumbent”.
ddrintn on October 7, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Wonderful, just wonderful…
I’m sure Levin will have an interesting take on this today…
davek70 on October 7, 2009 at 5:41 PM
I’d like to see the detail on all the ASSUMPTIONS in the report.
publiuspen on October 7, 2009 at 5:41 PM
It saves the government money by taxing us and limiting our healthcare? Forget it!
Blake on October 7, 2009 at 5:41 PM
ILLEGAL ALIENS will still get their free healthcare!
KILL THE BILL because YOU LIE!
HornetSting on October 7, 2009 at 5:41 PM
What is this $81 billion cut from?
Is it cut from the original estimate of the bill, that was like $900 billion?
lorien1973 on October 7, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Kill the bill or the bill will kill us.
Dhuka on October 7, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Yeah. There’s no way. They also said that Medicare would cost a certain amount of money (I can’t remember what) by 2000. It cost 8 times that by then.
Anytime the goverment gets involved in anything, expect prices to skyrocket, not “save money.”
mjk on October 7, 2009 at 5:42 PM
There is no way it’ll reduce anything other than insurance companies and our pocketbooks.
milwife88 on October 7, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Yeah – sure this will save us money. I also believe in unicorns and tax fairies.
gwelf on October 7, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Oh, I’m sure the CBO is right on this. It’s a preliminary report on the least liberal bill from Democrats — a piece of legislation that doesn’t include a public option or most of what liberals want.
What the media will do is provide cover for liberals to insert those at a later time and then pretend this CBO report covers that legislation, too.
amerpundit on October 7, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Let’s just say, I’m a bit Skeptical.
PappaMac on October 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM
You know what else would reduce the deficit in 10 years?
Not f*cking spending $800 billion dollars on something that doesn’t need to be destroyed while simultaneously plunging our progeny into permadebt.
That goes for BOTH parties.
Good Lt on October 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Very nice. And you’ve been counting on the CBO all week to take Obamacare out.
Guess this round’s to us.
As an aside, I wonder if this means, to some extent, that the process worked?
At any rate, get ready to hear the $81 billion figure about 81 billion times in the next week.
Bleeds Blue on October 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM
My question, how much in new taxes and fees does the Baucus bill create? Reducing the deficit by $81 billion sounds all well and good but how much in new taxes and fees was required? How does this affect the quality of health care if, as mentioned already, items like medical devices suddenly become even more expensive for consumers?
Queasy on October 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Okay, who did Rhambo blow to get those results?
Daggett on October 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Dude the defense budget would be deficit neutral if we cut $500 billion from Medicare too. This is not going to pass.
elduende on October 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Exactly. I believe this as much as I believed the stimulus would keep unemployment from going past 8%.
Vashta.Nerada on October 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Allah, if you’re reading this, here’s how the bill may sneak through without a public option… they then add the public option after cloture has been reached- requiring only 51 votes.
From the Washington Examiner…
Take a look.
tmi3rd on October 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM
“Death Panels save money!!!”
portlandon on October 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM
This is an argument that needs to be trumpeted from the mountaintops. When has a massive government program EVER cost as much as it was projected to?
gwelf on October 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM
This is all shadow-boxing anyway. You have the votes to get whatever you want. You’ll just have to run on it.
ddrintn on October 7, 2009 at 5:45 PM
The Baucus bill doesn’t include the public option. Put the public option in it and let the CBO score it again. Also, the reason the CBO says it reduces the deficit is because it raises taxes. That GOP should hammer away at this point.
Mark1971 on October 7, 2009 at 5:45 PM
I called my two GOP snaketors… The polite little girls on the end of the line said, “thank you” and hung up.
ROOOAAAAAAAARRRRR. Snarl.
Key West Reader on October 7, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Of course it would reduce the deficit.
The Baucus Bill is being sold as a way to increase health care availability and decrease costs.
But what it does is tax the providers of health care, the manufacturers of drugs and medical devices and the private insurance policies. Taxing these things will make them more expensive and harder to come by.
Which means that we will end up getting LESS HEALTHCARE and paying more for it.
And the government, which currently underwrites the very expensive health care costs for those who can’t afford it, will get to use our funds to allay their costs.
And in the end, EVERYBODY loses….everybody except Uncle Sam that is.
Kasper Hauser on October 7, 2009 at 5:45 PM
austerlitz.
sesquipedalian on October 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM
Because when you win,….America loses.
portlandon on October 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM
Please don’t breed.
HornetSting on October 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM
It’s just a flimflam to fool the public into thinking this clunker will be good for us. Medicare will be destroyed and so will the finances and healthcare of Seniors who will die from rationed care.
If Republicans don’t have the guts to fight this hellish bill, then I guess I will become independent and feel the same about Republicans as I do Democrats. To hell with them all.
katieanne on October 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM
Folks: the headline is this:
“CBO says health care bill costs $829B over decade”
Which means MASSIVELY INCREASED TAXES to be deficit neutral.
michaelo on October 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM
WOOOOHOOOO!
I can use this “special’ math when I do my taxes, right? Let’s see, Uncle Sam owes me eleventy million dollars!!!
Now then, if Underpants = Profits, so, we say the magic words, “modus ponens” and…
expanding services costs less!
Got it.
trubble on October 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM
And this was all done without new taxes, right? And if there are new taxes, I am sure Obama won’t let people making under $250K pay for them.
Don’t bust my world Bro!
WashJeff on October 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Any Republicans who provide cover by voting for this better be ready to cover their own asses — literally — in their next primary election!!!
TXUS on October 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM
It’ll reduce the deficit by raising taxes (fees).
And this is a good thing?
joshlbetts on October 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM
You need an Indian Headdress…..respect will be paid.
HornetSting on October 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM
And mandated coverage, which is part of the bill.
lorien1973 on October 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM
No matter what happens these next few years, remember these words:
In fifteen year’s time, when the system has finally imploded and become completely unworkable, come talk to us.
Not only do we have ideas, but we also have cookies.
Good Lt on October 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM
It’s deficit neutral, don’t ya know?
That’s all that matters.
lorien1973 on October 7, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Asculum.
ddrintn on October 7, 2009 at 5:48 PM
someone woke up with a horses head in his bed
jp on October 7, 2009 at 5:48 PM
It won’t be deficit neutral for me.
It’ll cost my family more.
joshlbetts on October 7, 2009 at 5:48 PM
It will save money because more people will die while waiting months to get tests or treatment that would have taken a day or two under private coverage.
Use the same methods the Israelis use and permanently wall-off DC; let the politicians starve while we put together a new government with new people somewhere else.
Bishop on October 7, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Love how they frame the argument and Allah plays along. Terrible.
joshlbetts on October 7, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Just like my ex-wife; saving 81 billion dollars by spending 819 billion dollars. It didn’t work that well when she tried it either.
thomasaur on October 7, 2009 at 5:49 PM
There is simply no way it’s correct.
The deficit reduction comes on the backs of taxpayers. The impact will be ENORMOUS and economy deadening.
drjohn on October 7, 2009 at 5:49 PM
And, having been around in 1994 when Democrats ran away from health care, and seen how that worked out, that’s a deal I’m willing to take.
Especially since, speaking with all due cynicism, nothing’s really going to be in place next fall and “we fixed health care” is going to beat “it’s going to maybe cost you money ten years from now” every time.
Bleeds Blue on October 7, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Well, with its huge tax increases, it might, in theory.
They want to wring cash out of us with health care taxes, cap and tax, VAT, soda taxes, taxes on everything in creation and then some. How much are we willing to allow the government to confiscate from us and how is that confiscation going to help our failing economy?
Just keep the government the hell out of our lives.
obladioblada on October 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Only one way for that to happen and that is we will be extorted out of much more money than now.
jukin on October 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
So it will save $81 billion while only costing $892 billion over 10 years?
Isn’t that the same as my wife spending $100 on shoes and telling me she saved $50?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Sorry, but we aren’t brainwashed puppetheads who tune in to the drive-by media having orgasms over Hussein.
You, on the other hand ……..
fogw on October 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
LOL!
elduende on October 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Turn out the lights, the part is over
BuckNutty on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
I can’t figure out why anyone on the Left or Right would support a bill that leaves 25 Million uninsured. That makes no sense to me.
DarkKnight3565 on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
what is the deficit?
tomas on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
You forgot a couple.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax
joshlbetts on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
macncheez on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
Too late.
Bleeds Blue on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
So, we cut medicare by $500 billion, increase taxes on the insured by $200 billion, but we save $81 billion? What a deal.
Vashta.Nerada on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
It’s that thing that only matters when a R is on office.
lorien1973 on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
How is it after all of the Townhall meetings, opinion polls and citizen agitation roaring AGAINST any government takeover of the healthcare industry that ANY bill is going to be submitted for a vote and might even pass?
Clearly America is no longer a government of the people.
JonPrichard on October 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
Trial balloon bull dip.
dogsoldier on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Does not compute. More/higher taxes means fewer jobs, which means less tax revenues, which means bigger deficit.
It also means other bad things like higher prices passed on to consumers, which means higher cost of living, inflation, etc. but that’s beside the point.
Daggett on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Oooohhh. Saving $81 billion out of how many TRILLIONS are we in debt? Yeah, that makes sense.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
I swear if this thing passes I WILL GO GALT.
I’m done with this farce of a government. I will not pay for this unethical and UNCONSTITUTIONAL usurpation of my rights and liberties.
I’m ashamed that I voted for Dole.
Skywise on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
what are these people SMOKING!
upinak on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
“Fixing” things are a speciality of IL politcians.
WashJeff on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Saying the bill will reduce the deficit is like saying a $50,000 car has a ten percent discount. The question still remains: how much will it cost?
Dhuka on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
I don’t think this gives Democrats as much cover as you seem to (aside from the fact that lots of hard core liberal Democrats oppose this Baucus because it doesn’t go far enough for them).
The bill will still be unpopular on it’s merits – for the reasons Allapundit points out:
and
Name a massive government program that didn’t totally blow away the projected costs.
gwelf on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
OT: Holy Cow
Should School Kids Be Singing Obama Health Care Song on CNN set?
BTW, those of you wanting vouchers may reap unintended consequences. Leftists are ahead of you.
faraway on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
ANd take that deal you will. It won’t be apparent that you “fixed health care”. It will be apparent that taxes have been increased and the undesired public option is going to be foisted on the public by stealth. Eat it.
ddrintn on October 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
That’s just a really good point and EXACTLY what the GOP should say a thousand times over each news day.
JonPrichard on October 7, 2009 at 5:53 PM
More curious where all that agitation went. It vaporized.
Deficit neutral. Dammit.
lorien1973 on October 7, 2009 at 5:53 PM
The fix was in. Obama and his team got to somebody at CBO. I’m sure they’ve been working at it for months. I honestly think the American people are more likely to believe in the corruption of the CBO than in Baucus’s abomination.
And where has the GOP been for months in making the argument about the bill’s overwhelming assault on individual freedom and sovereignty? This was always the more compelling argument against any of these bills, and against this entire new administration. This caviling over money was a loser’s game from the beginning.
rrpjr on October 7, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Gambling. I don’t like them odds.
“Come on #7!!…..”
portlandon on October 7, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Also, this bill includes massive amounts of taxation and will still be ruinous to the medical industry…but other than that if you trust the CBO’s estimate then sure, it’s still a great plan.
gwelf on October 7, 2009 at 5:54 PM
What is with all the gulping? For one thing, they cut the deficit {supposedly} by raising taxes and fees, for another I don’t get the impression that the GOP is ready to cave on the public option, after all there is not even a public option in this bill.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 5:54 PM
By the way, you should remember that the Democrats ran away from HillaryCare because the public didn’t want it. It wasn’t the failure to pass HillaryCare that cost them control of Congress. It was the attempt.
ddrintn on October 7, 2009 at 5:54 PM
I’m not worried about you. I’m worried about the 20-30% of Americans whose opinions may shift three or four more times in the coming weeks. And gleeful that arguably the most powerful Republican message is going to take a big hit between now and the Sunday talk shows.
Bleeds Blue on October 7, 2009 at 5:54 PM
BURN THE MAINE SISTERS PHONE LINES!
This is ridiculous. Next time there’s going to be a million GUN march.
J.J. Sefton on October 7, 2009 at 5:54 PM
Odumbo will be on television again in 3, 2, 1…
GrannyDee on October 7, 2009 at 5:54 PM
Come again?
Daggett on October 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
I wonder if any of those idiots in Washington read these conservative blogs and see how we absolutely hate what they are doing? It bothers me to no end that they are so arrogant not caring in the least what we say.These people who are up for reelection surely must know their days are numbered unless of course they listen to rahmbo and believe he will help get them elected again.
ohiobabe on October 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Any “reductions” will be taken and spent somewhere else. You think the govt will actually let go of money?
SirGawain on October 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
I think this is not that people won’t agitate but that there is no forum to do so at the moment. A million people marched on Washington and everyone in Washington pretended not to notice. Now Congress is in session and just isn’t taking any public input.
JonPrichard on October 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Bleeds Blue:
Did you read the part about the 121 billion in additional taxes? When people have to pay those taxes and when they are forced to get insurance they may not want or face a penalty, I think you may find that you gained nothing. In fact the whole idiot plan might just blow up in your faces.
Terrye on October 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
The estimate that it’s “deficit neutral” is all that matters. Who cares about any reality in the situation. I mean. Come on.
lorien1973 on October 7, 2009 at 5:56 PM
The government will deny you healthcare if you smoke. /s
portlandon on October 7, 2009 at 5:56 PM
I don’t know why anyone is surprised by this, it was reported several weeks ago the argument Baucus had with CBO about using a very specific set of assumptions for this scoring, one of which was to NOT use actual bill language, so CBO could come up with the number Baucus wanted. If I remember right, one of the assumption CBO had to use is that Congress will cut Medicare by 400 million dollars. A, Congress will never do that and B, wonder how senior feel about maybe having to deal with even MORE Medicare problems so we can have this glorious “reform.”
MaureenTheTemp on October 7, 2009 at 5:56 PM
It’s going to reduce the deficit….by raising taxes.
A 20% VAT would reduce the deficit too, that doesn’t make it a good idea.
Rocks on October 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Yes. Remember the immortal words of that noted
economist,mental-midget, Joe Biden.ICBM on October 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
He and other liberals, like being told what to do by government, apparently. Chattel is nothing if not obedient.
lorien1973 on October 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
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