Supreme Court wonders: Is animal-cruelty porn protected by the First Amendment?

posted at 10:38 pm on October 6, 2009 by Allahpundit

This is one of those kinda fun, kinda jerky free-speech cases that invites the Court to come up with the nuttiest hypotheticals it can think of, partly in order to probe whether the statute in question is too broad and partly just to see which of them can come up with the slipperiest slippery slope. I think Alito’s got this one in the bag.

Good news if you happen to get your rocks off watching women in stilettos mutilate kittens: Based on how the oral argument went, it looks like you can keep your stash.

The law applied only to illegal acts of torturing or killing animals, not legal hunting or fishing. It was intended to dry up the underground market in so-called crush videos, which show squealing animals being stomped by women in high heels. More recently, it has been used to prosecute people who sell videos of pit bulls and other dogs fighting.

On Tuesday, most of the justices sounded wary of reviving the law, fearing it might be used to ban depictions of legal activities such as hunting.

Justice Antonin Scalia, an avid hunter, insisted the 1st Amendment does not allow the government to limit speech and expression, unless it involves sex or obscenity…

Describing a hypothetical scenario, Alito said there might well be a “pay per view” market for programs made outside the United States and beyond the power of U.S. law that showed people actually being killed. He called it the “Human Sacrifice Channel” and wondered aloud whether Congress could outlaw the showing of such programs in this country.

“Live. Pay-per-view, you know, on the Human Sacrifice Channel. That’s OK?” Alito asked.

The statute has exceptions for videos with “artistic or social value,” e.g. an ASPCA film of a slaughterhouse, so in theory there’s no risk that an animal rights crusader’s going to get pinched.

If you don’t believe in obscenity laws as a matter of principle, fair enough, but Scalia seems to, in which case I’d love to know: If filming a couple of dogs ripping each other apart for some degenerate’s amusement isn’t “obscene,” what is? Child porn isn’t protected under the First Amendment because it necessarily involves cruelty to an unconsenting victim; we have a similar situation here, albeit with the wrinkle of having to distinguish “sporting” violence against animals, like hunting where the point is the kill, from “prurient” violence, like crush vids where the point is suffering for suffering’s sake. Is that so difficult? Animal cruelty statutes manage to do it; you could build on those by saying it’s illegal to distribute videos of activity prohibited by the jurisdiction’s cruelty law. Exit question: How “slippery” is the slippery slope here, really?

Blowback

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I don’t mind so long as they don’t ban the virtual barbershop…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxAFb8LYuxc

Sharke on October 6, 2009 at 10:41 PM

Oh boy,another nude protest by PETA!!!

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:41 PM

They weren’t crush-crushed.

LibTired on October 6, 2009 at 10:41 PM

Disgusting. I want to take a cattle prod to this dog smut peddler.
No, it’s not:
Hunting is legal, with permit.
Sex is still legal, without permit.
Animal cruelty is NOT legal and committed by people with small brains, men with small wee-wees and they should be taken out and destroyed.

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:42 PM

Exit question: How “slippery” is the slippery slope here, really?

Remember,Slippery when Wet,so be careful!!

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:43 PM

Eh… this thread needs to be highjacked… sorry, this is just creepy deeky.

MeatHeadinCA on October 6, 2009 at 10:43 PM

Yawn.

When are they going to rule on Obama’s treasonous acts?

fogw on October 6, 2009 at 10:43 PM

No, but broadcasts of Kanye’s blog are almost as bad

orfannkyl on October 6, 2009 at 10:43 PM

Good news if you happen to get your rocks off watching women in stilettos mutilate kittens:

Whew!

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 10:44 PM

I can’t figure out if this is Letterman creepy or just plain kooky. You know what I need? A wise Latina to help me figure it out. Now, where to find one…

alohapundit on October 6, 2009 at 10:45 PM

Justice Antonin Scalia, an avid hunter, insisted the 1st Amendment does not allow the government to limit speech and expression, unless it involves sex or obscenity…

So sub-human cruelty is fine but sex is bad, not that any of them (cruelty, sex, obscenity) are even in the 1st Amendment.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:45 PM

I’m sure the wise Latina, whose life experiences as a Hispanic female place her above the realm of mere mortals, will sort this all out.

Good Lt on October 6, 2009 at 10:45 PM

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:42 PM

What she said.

I’m waiting for the QOTD…

conservative pilgrim on October 6, 2009 at 10:46 PM

does hunting cougars count?

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:47 PM

Supreme Court wonders: Is animal-cruelty porn protected by the First Amendment?

Of all the real issues out there, this is what they are wondering about? It takes a wise Latina to figure this stuff out???

highhopes on October 6, 2009 at 10:47 PM

does hunting cougars count?

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:47 PM

Depends on if she is Courtney Cox or not. Meowwwww.

alohapundit on October 6, 2009 at 10:47 PM

I don’t really see the issue here. It’s illegal to host dog fighting, so why should you be able to profit off of it?

Esthier on October 6, 2009 at 10:48 PM

How “slippery” is the slippery slope here, really?

The “slippery slope” argument is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Well, that and – RACIST!!!

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:48 PM

does hunting cougars count?

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:47 PM

No…hunt away, Mo. Fo.

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:49 PM

He called it the “Human Sacrifice Channel” and wondered aloud whether Congress could outlaw the showing of such programs in this country.

Wooo! One more step towards THE RUNNING MAN!

Seriously. Watch the movie’s intro text “The year is 2017…” and tell me it’s not happening.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 10:49 PM

Let’s throw the book at all the sick, twisted people involved in these crush videos.

My first target would be these guys.

Those sick bastards. They need to be put away for a long, long time!

red winger on October 6, 2009 at 10:49 PM

The “slippery slope” argument is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Well, that and – RACIST!!!

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:48 PM

Yarr!!! Rabble, rabble, rabble…

:P

alohapundit on October 6, 2009 at 10:49 PM

alohapundit on October 6, 2009 at 10:47 PM

that would be FUN!

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:49 PM

man do i have a story for you.

doesnt match up to any animal cruelty pr0n, though.

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM

Well,I’ll repost one of my comments,
from a previous thread,

Bombshell: Man raped by wombat may have been lying
————————————————–

Indy Conservative:

I see a Hollywood movie begging to be made by some wacko.

Its a story about a man and his dog,alone together on
Dogback Barking Mountain,the ups and downs,a surreal
look at love lost,love gained,inspirational and yet
so sick,you’ll laugh and you’ll cry!You will never be
so moved and touched,an absolute must see,5 *stars!

canopfor on March 27, 2008 at 7:53 PM

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM

man do i have a story for you.

doesnt match up to any animal cruelty pr0n, though.

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM

Oh, see, now you gotta tell!

alohapundit on October 6, 2009 at 10:51 PM

Good news if you happen to get your rocks off watching women in stilettos mutilate kittens:

I don’t think that even OBL is that depraved.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:51 PM

If I ever saw someone, man or woman, crush a kitten to death, I’m pretty sure I’d choke them out right there on the spot.

BadgerHawk on October 6, 2009 at 10:52 PM

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM

They already made Equus.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 10:52 PM

does hunting cougars count?

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:47 PM

blatantblue: Only if you bag’em,no wait,that doesn’t sound
right,hehe:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:53 PM

I don’t think that even OBL is that depraved.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:51 PM

Well of course the woman would have to be in a chador.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 10:53 PM

Those sick bastards. They need to be put away for a long, long time!

red winger on October 6, 2009 at 10:49 PM

A pistol ball between the eyes would be more efficient.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:54 PM

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:49 PM
man do i have a story for you.

doesnt match up to any animal cruelty pr0n, though.

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM

You know where to find me…..

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:54 PM

yes, please shine a strong bright American light on an even MORE debasing act then the ones presently perpetrated on eachother. Let’s show em just how sick some are and make sure our kids see it too.

This Country is screwed up.

seesalrun on October 6, 2009 at 10:54 PM

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:51 PM

If I ever saw someone, man or woman, crush a kitten to death, I’m pretty sure I’d choke them out right there on the spot.

BadgerHawk on October 6, 2009 at 10:52 PM

BadgerHawk: I hear ya,we have a Lab,and 3 cats!!:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:54 PM

I can see where a ruling could make it easier to go after hunters.

There are a lot of weird fetishes in the world, but you can’t legislate against all of them. You just can’t.

SouthernGent on October 6, 2009 at 10:54 PM

blatantblue: Only if you bag’em,no wait,that doesn’t sound
right,hehe:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:53 PM

Shag…
we want the QOTD!

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:54 PM

Hornet

All I can say is this
You don’t do a cougar
She does YOU.

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:55 PM

does hunting cougars count?

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:47 PM

blatantblue: Only if you bag’em,no wait,that doesn’t sound
right,hehe:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:53 PM

lol.

For blatantblue the thrill is in the chase. I am not sure that he would know what to do if he ever caught one.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:56 PM

ahh anyway
leaving before i get in trouble.

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 10:56 PM

If I ever saw someone, man or woman, crush a kitten to death, I’m pretty sure I’d choke them out right there on the spot.

BadgerHawk on October 6, 2009 at 10:52 PM

Seems like a normal reflex.

Esthier on October 6, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Shag…
we want the QOTD!

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:54 PM

Let’s you and me make the QOTD

Topic: Ann me lady.

MeatHeadinCA on October 6, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Supreme Court wonders: Is animal-cruelty porn protected by the First Amendment?

wha what? huh? I I wow….I don’t even know what to think about this……..

FontanaConservative on October 6, 2009 at 10:56 PM

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM
They already made Equus.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 10:52 PM

CPL 310:Already made,D*mmit!!:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Liberals are luddites.

Opponents complain about the height and the shadow it will cast, but the design has received critical praise and the designer, architect Jean Nouvel, said that seen from the real Empire State Building his equally tall structure will blend into the cityscape.

The -exact- same complaints they had against the WTC. A mental disorder, indeed.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 10:57 PM

I think that any medium depicting actual wanton cruelty to domestic animals can and should be banned.

But not because animals hold the same value as people; but because unusual cruelty to those domestic animals under our care is wrong.

That would protect hunting.

atheling on October 6, 2009 at 10:57 PM

If I ever saw someone, man or woman, crush a kitten to death, I’m pretty sure I’d choke them out right there on the spot.

BadgerHawk on October 6, 2009 at 10:52 PM

You choke them and I will gouge their eyes out.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:58 PM

More recently, it has been used to prosecute people who sell videos of pit bulls and other dogs fighting.

An interesting tidbit historically – one of the primary forms of entertainment in Elizabethan England was pitting a group of dogs against a bear.

18-1 on October 6, 2009 at 10:59 PM

BadgerHawk on October 6, 2009 at 10:52 PM

You choke them and I will gouge their eyes out.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:58 PM

Free speech! I’ll buy the video.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 11:00 PM

crush videos, which show squealing animals being stomped by women in high heels

Please tell me this is just an internet myth.
…and if not, please no links.

billy on October 6, 2009 at 11:00 PM

You choke them and I will gouge their eyes out.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:58 PM

Deal. And I’ll give lorien the video for free.

BadgerHawk on October 6, 2009 at 11:01 PM

billy on October 6, 2009 at 11:00 PM

i hope its a myth
i watched one

it was fcking one of the worst things ive EVER seen.

i still hope its some special effect.

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 11:01 PM

You choke them and I will gouge their eyes out.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:58 PM

Simultaneously?

Esthier on October 6, 2009 at 11:01 PM

Shag…
we want the QOTD!

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 10:54 PM

HornetSting: Shag,that reminds me of fond memories of
my Chevelle stationwagon,

Shaggin Wagon,ahem:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:03 PM

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 11:01 PM

Russian TV one time showed 2 girls who killed a dog and cut its body into pieces and video taped it. Then, they had the two on the air to explain why they did it. While it was done under the guise of outing them as evil, you’d be surprised how much sympathy they were getting for being kicked out of veterinary school because of the tape.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 11:03 PM

Did AP fall asleep? No QOTD?

conservative pilgrim on October 6, 2009 at 11:04 PM

Doesn’t Kilgore Trout stomp puppies to death at LGF while everyone there sits around and masturbates?

jaime on October 6, 2009 at 11:04 PM

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 11:03 PM

one time at a party
this kid put on

“spank that bear”

it was a video of a young 20 something
shooting a bear out of a tree

then she gets nailed on the dead bear

it was truly a disturbing sight.

i dont understand people.

and my friends yell at me for screwing 40 somethings.

at least im not doing it on top of dead bears.

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 11:04 PM

Twisted and Sick!

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:04 PM

Okay… so why are there people okay with Roman Polanski drugging and anal raping a 13 year old girl (possibly more), but everyone’s mad about weirdos who stomp on kittens? (Not an indictment of other folks at HA, just pointing out that you won’t see Whoopi Goldberg say “the kitten wasn’t ‘stomp-stomped’”.)

As long as their jollies don’t extend to hurting humans, it’s indicative of someone who’s messed up in the head, but not necessarily much else. Arguably which is worse, someone stomping on an animal, or someone making a video of a human woman being debased, abused, and dehumanized?

And I don’t mean NOW going “playboy subjugates women”, I mean vile stuff like vore/cannibal porn, depictions of rape, or most of the stuff from Germany and Japan.

I find there are a lot more people – (again, broad spectrum, not representative of HA, as conservatives are generally pretty concerned with human life – except for criminals) – more people are angry when a kitten is killed than when a rich Hollywood type rapes a 13 year old or a politician drowns a woman in his car.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM

You choke them and I will gouge their eyes out.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 10:58 PM

But would SCOTUS let us see a video of the choking & gouging on Alito’s “you know, Human Sacrifice Channel”?

dedalus on October 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM

Putting the government in charge of deciding how much to restrain itself is just asking for trouble. There’s nothing that the government won’t eventually decide to regulate. The Supreme Court has already decided to take away most of the voters’ control of the government in order to put themselves in charge.

Trust that slimy bunch of lawyers to decide how much government is enough for me? No thank you. I’ll decide myself.

JohnJ on October 6, 2009 at 11:07 PM

The narrative ended as the cats found a safe haven with the woman who had little enough, herself. When the Pope concluded his dream, the author to whom he related it did not make any comment on what had been said. But he did write that “I had never seen such a sad expression on the face of this man.” Considering that this was the same man who had related the horrors of his young manhood under Nazi occupation, the author’s remark shows the deep impact this dream had on the Pope.

If the Pontiff offered a commentary on his dream, Anton Gronowicz does not share it with the reader. But we are told that John Paul began to recite the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi. “Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love …, where there is darkness, light, and where there is sadness, joy.”

Many years after Cardinal Wojtyla had his dream and had become Pope John Paul II, he made a pilgrimage to Assisi, the birthplace of St. Francis. In the Message of Reconciliation he delivered there, the Pontiff spoke of the Saint’s love for animal, as well as human, beings. And he likened that inclusive love to an anticipation of the Peaceable Kingdom, envisioned by the Prophet Isaiah, a world in which all God’s creatures will live in peace with each other.

The Pope also said that the “solicitous care, not only toward [people] but also toward animals and nature in general,” that St. Francis demonstrated is “a faithful echo of the love with which God in the beginning pronounced his ‘fiat,’ which brought them into existence.” And, the Pope added, “We, too, are called to a similar attitude.”

Some who read these remarks are surprised to find in them such strong support of God’s other creatures. They are surprised to hear the Pope refer to the lives of animals as a manifestation of God’s love: lives that deserve our “solicitous care.” But I was not surprised. By the time I came across a copy of the message he gave at Assisi, I had read God’s Broker and the lengthy account of the Pope’s dream. And I knew that if John Paul II had not wanted this very revealing dream to be published, it would never have appeared in print.

So in spite of the policies and pronouncements of ["religious people"] of the same or other persuasions, who try to denigrate the value and the importance of the lives of God’s other creatures, we know that John Paul II had a dream. And although [people] of lesser vision and lesser spiritual development have closed their hearts and their minds to the needs of other creatures, John Paul has given witness to a need for the “solicitous care, not only of [people], but of animals.”

In this witness, the Pope is being true to the Gospel message in which Jesus also gave witness to the need for the solicitous care of all beings: “I tell you, whenever you refused to help one of these least important ones, you refused to help me.” (Matthew 25:45 TEV)

Do Scalia and Alito claim to be Catholic?

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 11:08 PM

But would SCOTUS let us see a video of the choking & gouging on Alito’s “you know, Human Sacrifice Channel”?

dedalus on October 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM

The Running Man on ICS Channel One!

Who loves you, and who do you love?

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:08 PM

Kinda related: im being a KISS army dick,but hey check em out tonite on Dave Letterman.Thats the last time u have to watch the douche.Then tomorrow night they are on Jimmy Kimmel.Or,just find”Im anAnimal” by KISS on youtube.W/E!!

theTarCzar on October 6, 2009 at 11:09 PM

Did AP fall asleep? No QOTD?

conservative pilgrim on October 6, 2009 at 11:04 PM

conservative pilgrim: Maybe Meghan slid by AP’s pad,

for a night cap!!

Gawd,I hope AP doesn’t read this!!

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:09 PM

Dog fighting is illegal as is child porn. Distribution and possession of child porn is illegal so distribution and possession of images or video of dogs fighting will surely be illegal.

I mean, why not?

Oink on October 6, 2009 at 11:10 PM

But would SCOTUS let us see a video of the choking & gouging on Alito’s “you know, Human Sacrifice Channel”?

dedalus on October 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM

Ah, that’s above my pay grade.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 11:10 PM

people are just sick

i dont get them

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 11:04 PM

WTF?

Weirdest video I saw with friends was Bang Bus, but that has to be fake.

Esthier on October 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM

at least im not doing it on top of dead bears.

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 11:04 PM

Never dated a fat hairy chick, huh?

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Kinda related: im being a KISS army dick

theTarCzar on October 6, 2009 at 11:09 PM

theTarCzar: Ummm,you might want to re-phrase,hehe:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Do Scalia and Alito claim to be Catholic?

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 11:08 PM

They rule based on law, not based on declarations by the Pope.

However distasteful, even outright vile, the law may well protect this crud. So vote with your money and don’t buy any (pretty easy). Then vote with your money and tell ISPs you won’t do business with them if they host the stuff. Tell shipping companies you won’t do business with them if they ship the stuff.

Lobby Catholic legislators to pass law against this stuff. Lobby to prevent the importation of it if it’s made overseas – that’s a regulation change, not a law.

But if you want judges to rule based on their personal backgrounds and not on the law, I see no reason why “wise latina woman” is any less of a valid claim to expertise.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:13 PM

I think these people making TV shows like “Life After People” are even more disturbing than dog fight fans. I mean, what kind of mind dreams up something like that and then decides it is such a worthy fantasy that they want to show it to the world?

Buddahpundit on October 6, 2009 at 11:14 PM

Never dated a fat hairy chick, huh?

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM

thankfully, i haven’t had the pleasure

blatantblue on October 6, 2009 at 11:14 PM

Dog fighting is illegal as is child porn. Distribution and possession of child porn is illegal so distribution and possession of images or video of dogs fighting will surely be illegal.

I mean, why not?

Oink on October 6, 2009 at 11:10 PM

Child porn is humans being harmed.

Dogfighting is animals being harmed.

Murder is illegal. Is distribution or images or depictions of murder illegal? Try watching prime time TV without seeing a murder tonight on any drama.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:09 PM

Oy. Do you want me to have nightmares? ;-)

conservative pilgrim on October 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM

Kinda related: im being a KISS army dick

theTarCzar on October 6, 2009 at 11:09 PM

theTarCzar: Ummm,you might want to re-phrase,hehe:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Dude thats only a step down from the barbed cock of satan(AOShq)

theTarCzar on October 6, 2009 at 11:16 PM

I think these people making TV shows like “Life After People” are even more disturbing than dog fight fans. I mean, what kind of mind dreams up something like that and then decides it is such a worthy fantasy that they want to show it to the world?

Buddahpundit on October 6, 2009 at 11:14 PM

People who hate humanity. Most of the left does.

The left invariably supports that which is failed, evil and wrong.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:17 PM

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:09 PM
Oy. Do you want me to have nightmares? ;-)

conservative pilgrim on October 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM

conservative pilgrim:You should of had your *Eye Muffs*
on,just in case,haha:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:18 PM

Does this mean that a wise latina will actually read the Bill of Rights?

infidel4life on October 6, 2009 at 11:18 PM

conservative pilgrim on October 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM

Kinda related: im being a KISS army dick

theTarCzar on October 6, 2009 at 11:09 PM

theTarCzar: Ummm,you might want to re-phrase,hehe:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM
Dude thats only a step down from the barbed cock of satan(AOShq)

theTarCzar on October 6, 2009 at 11:16 PM

theTarCzar: Umm,fearing the Ban Hammer AirStrike,I’ll quit
while I’m ahead!!:)

canopfor on October 6, 2009 at 11:20 PM

Ahh i see what ur saying.Well ill watch davey and see what happens.Next time ill say “phallus” and stuff.

theTarCzar on October 6, 2009 at 11:25 PM

The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creatures that cannot.
- Mark Twain

Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one that inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it.
- Mark Twain (“The Lowest Animal”)

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 11:27 PM

Try watching prime time TV without seeing a murder tonight on any drama.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM

Fake is still OK. Cartoon kiddie porn isn’t illegal.

Esthier on October 6, 2009 at 11:27 PM

Stupid First Amendment–it’s directed squarely at Congress, not the States. Ever since we incorporated, it’s been all screwy because SCOTUS realized States still need police powers. But then we’re left to the whims of what kinds of porn the justices sorta like. What a country!

How about we restore the constitution as it reads? This “living, breathing” nonsense is killing the document.

cackcon on October 6, 2009 at 11:31 PM

They rule based on law, not based on declarations by the Pope.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:13 PM

All justices say they rule based on law. I don’t know for certain what they are basing their wants on but it does not seem to be the law.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 11:31 PM

This goes back to the nonsense that stripping is speech. It’s not speech, it’s boobs. They can talk all they want about how much fun they have torturing animals, but making a film that allows people watch animals being torturing is a way for them to make money by torturing animals and should be banned.

pedestrian on October 6, 2009 at 11:32 PM

Something tells me they are going after people who have shot wolves from an airplane which will be another attack on you know who. Just my opinion but just hide and watch.

Dire Straits on October 6, 2009 at 11:32 PM

Try watching prime time TV without seeing a murder tonight on any drama.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM

I could be mistaken but I believe they are not real.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 11:34 PM

Simultaneously?

Esthier on October 6, 2009 at 11:01 PM

Simultaneously.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 11:37 PM

I am against all jail time or fines or any sort of government intervention whatsoever into animal cruelty cases.

Humans should not go to jail for forcing dogs to fight each other (just an example), nor should they pay monetary fines. They should, however, be socially ostracized.

amkun on October 6, 2009 at 11:38 PM

I could be mistaken but I believe they are not real.

MB4 on October 6, 2009 at 11:34 PM

Counterpoint already made.

Fake is still OK. Cartoon kiddie porn isn’t illegal.

Esthier on October 6, 2009 at 11:27 PM

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:41 PM

I think executions should be on pay-per-view. That way the states can get some of their money back that they spent on housing these despicable people.

cjs1943 on October 6, 2009 at 11:46 PM

I think executions should be on pay-per-view. That way the states can get some of their money back that they spent on housing these despicable people.

cjs1943 on October 6, 2009 at 11:46 PM

Seriously.

THE RUNNING MAN.

CPL 310 on October 6, 2009 at 11:47 PM

Wouldn’t you get them on the crushing of the kittens instead of the filming of it? I mean, I don’t see what the point of bringing up the 1st Amendment here is at all. Video-taping crushing kittens would be accessory to inhumane treatment of an animal, would it not? Isn’t that an illegal offense?

Same as shooting someone and filming it. As long as you’re involved with the person getting shot, you’re on the hook for accessory to murder. Whether or not the film is legal is besides the point, really.

Seixon on October 6, 2009 at 11:53 PM

Wouldn’t you get them on the crushing of the kittens instead of the filming of it? I mean, I don’t see what the point of bringing up the 1st Amendment here is at all. Video-taping crushing kittens would be accessory to inhumane treatment of an animal, would it not? Isn’t that an illegal offense?

Same as shooting someone and filming it. As long as you’re involved with the person getting shot, you’re on the hook for accessory to murder. Whether or not the film is legal is besides the point, really.

Seixon on October 6, 2009 at 11:53 PM

Excellent point!

CPL 310 on October 7, 2009 at 12:07 AM

I don’t see a slippery slope at all: ban it.

If I ever saw someone, man or woman, crush a kitten to death, I’m pretty sure I’d choke them out right there on the spot.

BadgerHawk on October 6, 2009 at 10:52 PM

+1

FloatingRock on October 7, 2009 at 12:07 AM

The Supreme Court has been a JOKE since Everson V Board of Education in 1947, and gotten “progressively” worse. i hold my breath every time a 2nd Amendment case comes up because I doubt if 5 of the SCOTUS judges can even READ the Constitution.
Anyone that believes they are more intelligent than Madison, Hamilton, Mason and the other 53 founders at the Constitutional Convention needs to be kept as FAR as we can get them from a COURT.

nelsonknows on October 7, 2009 at 12:49 AM

I think the ACLU’s argument was it could hurt news broadcast and such, but those things are protected already, so it seems the ACLU will even support dog murderers for the simple fact that they like them.

Rbastid on October 7, 2009 at 1:04 AM

context, context, context

bingsha on October 7, 2009 at 1:04 AM

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