Pelosi: Hey, how about a VAT to help pay for ObamaCare?

posted at 4:58 pm on October 6, 2009 by Allahpundit

In case you were wondering how they’re going to make the program, ahem, “deficit-neutral,” wonder no longer.

“I would say, Put everything on the table and subject it to the scrutiny that it deserves,” Pelosi told Rose when asked if the VAT has any appeal to her…

Pelosi argued that the VAT would level the playing field between U.S. and foreign manufacturers, the latter of which do not have pension and healthcare costs included in the price of their goods because their governments provide those services, financed by similar taxes.

“They get a tax off of that and they use that money to pay the healthcare for their own workers,” Pelosi said, using the example of auto manufacturers. “So their cars coming into our country don’t have a healthcare component cost.

“Somewhere along the way, a value-added tax plays into this. Of course, we want to take down the healthcare cost, that’s one part of it,” the Speaker added. “But in the scheme of things, I think it’s fair look at a value- added tax as well.”

Ace already made the point I wanted to make. If you take her logic seriously, which is usually a bad idea, the only way to fully level the playing field and eliminate health-insurance costs from the price of U.S. goods is to … eliminate private health insurance. Anything short of that and you’re left with some health-care cost component, however small, built into the price of the good, with a VAT slapped on top to boot. Competitive pressure among companies to outprice each other will take care of the rest, leading them to drop private insurance coverage altogether and leave employees scrambling to enroll in the public option. In which case, there’s no need to legislate single-payer; ironically, the market will lead you there.

There’s another, simpler way to reduce the price disadvantage U.S. companies face, but that would require less government revenue, not more, and therefore is dead on arrival for Madam Speaker. Exit question: Is the VAT politically feasible? Rasmussen’s out with a new poll that finds 59 percent support for adding a provision to ObamaCare that would prohibit any new taxes, fees, or penalties on families who make less than $250,000 a year. The VAT, which operates basically as a sales tax, would drop like an atomic bomb on that sentiment. How will the Democrats sell it, especially with the GOP poised to make big gains next year? Does anyone seriously believe Pelosi’s going to gamble a narrow Democratic majority in the House on a new consumption tax?


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God Almighty.

Flyover Country on October 6, 2009 at 4:59 PM

the only way to fully level the playing field and eliminate health-insurance costs from the price of U.S. goods is to … eliminate private health insurance

It’s the same thing. You’ve just replaced the health-insurance costs with a tax. 6 of one …

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 4:59 PM

Liberals never give up-They nickle and dime, they disguise, they employ subterfuges and trojan horses.

MaiDee on October 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM

How are the Democrats going to sell it

That they’ll never “see” the tax increase. Which is true. Check out VATs are implemented in Europe.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM

The country’s in the best of hands that can grab your wallet out of your pants through your nostrils. Or something like that.

Ed Morrissey on October 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM

It’s like a Greatest Hits of Failed Policies record is playing on “loop” in D.C.

Flyover Country on October 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM

the second they do this the GOP retakes congress, that is after a series of tea parties that make the previous ones look like little league games.

rob verdi on October 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Is there a tax that they won’t endorse?

Cindy Munford on October 6, 2009 at 5:01 PM

are they really that stupid or tone deaf?

rob verdi on October 6, 2009 at 5:02 PM

level the playing field

I’m beginning to really, really loathe that phrase. It’s like “for the children!” or “let me be clear!”. When they say it, you know bad things are coming.

TheQuestion on October 6, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Keep your eyes open for Krugman or Freidman or whoever writing pieces about the rational efficient genius of a VAT.

rob verdi on October 6, 2009 at 5:03 PM

If we could tax the stupidity of liberals, we could pay off the debt accumulated by their stupidity.

jimmy2shoes on October 6, 2009 at 5:03 PM

The advantage of a VAT is that it’s hidden. You can’t “see it” when you pay the cashier.

Like withholding, it’s a way of getting revenues without the taxpayer fully realizing what’s going on.

SteveMG on October 6, 2009 at 5:04 PM

This isn’t a tax on incomes less than 250k now is it?

tarpon on October 6, 2009 at 5:04 PM

The advantage

The advantage for the proponents of the tax, of course.

SteveMG on October 6, 2009 at 5:04 PM

How about a vat, to seal Pelosi up in? I mean c’mon. Honestly. Would anyone really notice? LOL Just kidding, but this woman really gets under my skin.

capejasmine on October 6, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Well, if Obama had not promised it would be revenue neutral, they might get away with something like this….But tack on a tax now when people are sour on the whole idea and it will make it even more unpopular.

Terrye on October 6, 2009 at 5:05 PM

“How are the Democrats going to sell it,…”

They will attach it as an amendment to the “Fuzzy Cute Kitten” Appreciation Bill and pass it at 2:00AM on a Sunday morning…

Seven Percent Solution on October 6, 2009 at 5:05 PM

The country’s in the best of hands that can grab your wallet out of your pants through your nostrils. Or something like that.

Ed Morrissey on October 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM

QOTD

Laura in Maryland on October 6, 2009 at 5:05 PM

are they really that stupid or tone deaf?

rob verdi on October 6, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Apparently.

XWing5 on October 6, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Coming soon to a bookstore near you:

“How to Lose the House in 4 Years” by Nancy Pelosi

Seriously, is this woman trying to guarantee a Democrat Party loss of 100+ seats in the midterms? That and the next Great Depression.

Doughboy on October 6, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Does anyone seriously believe Pelosi’s going to gamble a narrow Democratic majority in the House on a new consumption tax?

I believe that Nancy Pelosi is good for conservatives.

Theworldisnotenough on October 6, 2009 at 5:06 PM

the Speaker added. “But in the scheme of things…”

Schemers….that about sums the Democrats up right there.

Jerome Horwitz on October 6, 2009 at 5:07 PM

If health-care costs add so much to the price of goods, why aren’t Pelosi, Reid and Obama interested in cutting business taxes?

BackwardsBoy on October 6, 2009 at 5:07 PM

The only way to level the playing field is to demand foreign manufactures & producers of goods play by the exact same rules we do-or they can’t sell their product here:period.
Adding a tax is stupid.
But then that’s always their way, raising taxes or creating fees to fix a problem when it needs to be fixed at the root.

Badger40 on October 6, 2009 at 5:07 PM

They get a tax off of that and they use that money to pay the healthcare for their own workers,

Me no understand this wordie.

Who is the ‘they’ getting the tax, and what is the ‘that’?
And then how are they paying the health care for their own workers, whoever “they” are, without someone paying for it?

MayBee on October 6, 2009 at 5:07 PM

The VAT,as envisioned by Pelosi, will essentially make have Americans pay for their own healthcare, with none of those costs being passed to exports.

While this may or may not be a good idea, since when has Pelosi of Obama been interested in foreign trade ?

J_Crater on October 6, 2009 at 5:07 PM

Liberals want a VAT tax because they want to tax people without them realizing it…

ninjapirate on October 6, 2009 at 5:08 PM

If not for the MSM, the Democrats would quickly be ran out of town.

the only chance ObamaCare has is the MSM shielding enough of the public from what they are doing

jp on October 6, 2009 at 5:09 PM

In Japan, I am certain health care is not paid for via a VAT. Workers and companies contribute to insurance policies, which for the most part are private and non-profit.
Ditto Germany.

MayBee on October 6, 2009 at 5:10 PM

How will the Democrats sell it…?

“You have reached the voice mail of Congress. Please leave a message and we will ignore it as soon as possible.”

Daggett on October 6, 2009 at 5:10 PM

She Lied.

faraway on October 6, 2009 at 5:11 PM

The only VAT I want is a VAT of boiling oil to poor on our congress to wake them up.

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 5:11 PM

They could sell it as a Tithe to The One, not a tax

jp on October 6, 2009 at 5:12 PM

In the dead of night
She’ll come and take you away
Searing beams of light and thunder
Over blackened plains
She will find her way

Flying high through the night
She will hide your fate
As she takes your soul from under
And the blinding light of the castle fades

There is no escape
It’s the ending of your precious life

Your soul slipped away
It belongs to the Queen of the Reich
The Queen of the Reich
Yeah she’s coming for you

You’re fading away
Your life cast astray
A victim the beast shall obtain

The light will not shine
For you’ll die tonight at her shrine
And black is the last thing you’ll see

Over and over
Dreams of dying fill your head
It’s the sign of the cross
That you’ll find ahead

No one will answer
The light is fading away
Captive souls are screaming out in pain

There is no escape
It’s the ending of your precious life

Your soul slipped away
It belongs to the Queen of the Reich
You’re fading away, No, No, No
The Queen of the Reich
You’re slipping away, yeah
The Queen of the Reich

Queen of the Ryche, By Queensryche

PaulMorphy on October 6, 2009 at 5:12 PM

This gets better and better. They really are betting the farm on this whole healthcare thing.

Durham68 on October 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM

Good lord this woman is stupid.

rplat on October 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM

How much more will her husband’s tuna cost?

SouthernGent on October 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM

By the way I don’t believe she logically thought through her assumptions about the end of private insurance. She is dumb.

rob verdi on October 6, 2009 at 5:14 PM

They could sell it as a Tithe to The One, not a tax

jp on October 6, 2009 at 5:12 PM

++

faraway on October 6, 2009 at 5:16 PM

Was it the summer of 08 that gas was $4.00/gal almost 5/gal here in the US, the price of corn (ethanol) and food prices were sky high and the VATS in Asia and Europe were causing ummm riots?

Or was that just a dream?

Does Pelosi have any long term memory left?

journeyintothewhirlwind on October 6, 2009 at 5:16 PM

It takes a special degree of stupid to suggest that the expense of a company providing health care to employees is passed on to the consumer, but the expense of higher taxes wouldn’t be.

Is she trying to one-up Slow Joe in the “stupid things said by a prominent politician” category?

Hollowpoint on October 6, 2009 at 5:16 PM

As dangerous as these people are, I’m continue to be amused by their inability to pass any legislation to back up their “tough talk”, despite majorities on both the House and the Senate.

VAT… Just one more nail in the Economy’s coffin. Let’s make certain we drive the average price of goods upward at a time when people least need it.

Neo-con Artist on October 6, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Does Pelosi have any long term memory left?

journeyintothewhirlwind on October 6, 2009 at 5:16 PM

Me thinks some Botox seeped into her brain, and took care of that…

Neo-con Artist on October 6, 2009 at 5:18 PM

I thought that steaming pile of crap was supposed to pay for itself?

ddrintn on October 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM

Maybe Nancy dropped a few CFL bulbs in her room?

faraway on October 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM

How much more will her husband’s tuna cost?

SouthernGent on October 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM

Eww…

Theworldisnotenough on October 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM

VAT is the absolute worse scam out there. It always starts with two lies, that it will reduce the income tax and that it will stay single digit. Never happens..feeding politicians only makes them more hungry.

Disgusting creatures that.

JIMV on October 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM

The only VAT is the vat of fat from her thighs…
Bring it on Pelosi, bring on your suggestion of taxes…we love to here that with a 10%+ unemployment…

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:20 PM

o/t….Glenn Beck is taking the little penis wrinkle, Lindsey Graham, to task…….
America is great…but, we need to destroy corruption.

HornetSting on October 6, 2009 at 5:20 PM

The VAT in England broke their production which they then shipped overseas to Pakistan and India. I though the Dims wanted to keep jobs in the U.S.

You know, Palin could come in with a Flat or National Sales Tax and sweep the Nation.

Ohhhh! Her Book. I can’t Wait.

GunRunner on October 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM

feeding politicians only makes them more hungry.

Disgusting creatures that.

JIMV on October 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM

Now there is a bumper sticker:
FEEDING POLITICIANS ONLY MAKES THEM MORE HUNGRY

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Was it the summer of 08 that gas was $4.00/gal almost 5/gal here in the US,

Do you remember Obama’s proposed solution for that? A windfall profits taxes on the energy companies for the next 5 years.

MayBee on October 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM

When they say it, you know bad things are coming.

TheQuestion on October 6, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Pavlov

nolapol on October 6, 2009 at 5:22 PM

How much more will her husband’s tuna cost?

SouthernGent on October 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM

StarKist tuna will be exempt…

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:22 PM

Time to light the torches and sharpen the pitchforks…

Khun Joe on October 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM

How long before they come after all the IRA and SEP accounts. Nothing is safe with these idiots in charge. I just wish I knew which currecy to put my savings in.

bopbottle on October 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Will the VAT pay for the pony that i was promised too?

ted c on October 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Do you remember Obama’s proposed solution for that? A windfall profits taxes on the energy companies for the next 5 years.

MayBee on October 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM

The same solution Carter proposed…and ended up having his head served on a platter to Reagan.
Bring on the tax proposals…we love to hear them.

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Gee, and here I thought that liberals generally consider a straight percentage tax to be regressive, with the largest relative impact on those who make the least.

I must check with any liberal friends I may still have.

James on October 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM

A VAT would be the last straw for me. I swear.

Red Cloud on October 6, 2009 at 5:24 PM

ddrintn on October 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM

Bingo… +1000

Neo-con Artist on October 6, 2009 at 5:24 PM

Gee, and here I thought that liberals generally consider a straight percentage tax to be regressive, with the largest relative impact on those who make the least.

I must check with any liberal friends I may still have.

James on October 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM

If under the poverty level, you will be given a card that excludes or deducts the tax from the purchase…you watch and see. Of course illegals will qualify.

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Liberals never give up-They nickle and dime, they disguise, they employ subterfuges and trojan horses.

MaiDee on October 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM

No, they lie, constantly and without shame, if the lie gives them more power.

JIMV on October 6, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Sometimes I marvel at how Pelosi manages to convince herself that it is useful or expedient to say some of the stuff she does. What kind of vacuum does she live in that she thinks this is a valid argument? Is she that blinded by the political end she strives for?

rasta16ry on October 6, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Ya know, if you have to struggle so hard to find ways to tax everyone and everything, it just might be that you can’t afford it.

Real people understand this. We make daily financial decisions for our families and our businesses. If we don’t have the funds, we don’t spend the money. Only politicians spend like crack addicts.

obladioblada on October 6, 2009 at 5:25 PM

It takes a special degree of stupid to suggest that the expense of a company providing health care to employees is passed on to the consumer, but the expense of higher taxes wouldn’t be.

Is she trying to one-up Slow Joe in the “stupid things said by a prominent politician” category?

Hollowpoint on October 6, 2009 at 5:16 PM

Yes, Pelosi is very “special”, isn’t she?

Of course, I guess she never considered that one of the reasons other countries need to pass along fewer health care costs is that their health care is less advanced, so it costs less, regardless of who’s financing it, an employer or the government.

venividivici on October 6, 2009 at 5:26 PM

I lived in San Francisco when Nan was a local politician. She proposed a “tax tax” there. The concept being that if you’re getting taxed X amount of dollars you could clearly afford to pay more. I honestly believe Dan White was looking for her.

noblejones on October 6, 2009 at 5:26 PM

I thought that steaming pile of crap was supposed to pay for itself?

ddrintn on October 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM

And the obvious almost slips by…good call.
Why a VAT when it is supposed to be self supporting…a simple question that will never be asked.

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:26 PM

Just wait until they start telling you what percent the VAT will be. You know how they calculate it?

They will tell you that it’s a 25% tax and then charge you 35 cents on every dollar. That’s because they calculate it against the total — .35/1.35 (= .259) and then truncate the number to .25.

You read it here first (or somewhere near first).

Daggett on October 6, 2009 at 5:27 PM

How about no VAT, no Osama Obamacare, and no Nancy Pelosi?

That would solve several problems at once.

MrScribbler on October 6, 2009 at 5:27 PM

Sometimes I marvel at how Pelosi manages to convince herself that it is useful or expedient to say some of the stuff she does. What kind of vacuum does she live in that she thinks this is a valid argument? Is she that blinded by the political end she strives for?

rasta16ry on October 6, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Notice she gives no “town hall” meetings, she never answers open questions?
It is only to tell us what she wants…

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM

Specifically, fiscal rules for the 1999 budget required that consumption tax funds be spent on basic pension (Japan’s version of social security), medical care for the elderly and nursing care. The purpose of linking consumption tax revenue to social welfare spending was to increase public acceptance of this tax.

However, a comparison of FY 2000′s projected consumption tax revenue for the national government of ¥6.9 trillion ($62.7 billion) with the ¥4.5 trillion ($40.9 billion) needed for basic pension, ¥3.3 trillion ($30 billion) needed for medical care for the elderly and 1.3 trillion ($11.8 billion) for nursing care shows that consumption tax revenue will fall far short of the ¥ 9.1 trillion ($82.7 billion) needed for these three programs.

Japan’s VAT acts more like our FICA taxes, which as far as I know we aren’t going to be getting rid of.
Japanese manufacturers and their employees pay for their health insurance. That is built into the price of their goods.
As I said, the same is true in Germany.

MayBee on October 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM

WTF is a VAT?

Mazztek on October 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM

I don’t mean it is collected like our FICA tax, obviously, but it pays for things our FICA taxes would pay for.

MayBee on October 6, 2009 at 5:29 PM

A VAT OR or an income tax is acceptable; not both.

Chiasmos on October 6, 2009 at 5:30 PM

You read it here first (or somewhere near first).

Daggett on October 6, 2009 at 5:27 PM

That’s right, they say it as a markup, and it is actually margin.
50% margin is actually 100% mark up…

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:30 PM

WTF is a VAT?

Mazztek on October 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM

The most vile of all taxes…hidden and a tax upon a tax, upon a tax…

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:32 PM

Steal the gavel from this Pelosi freak in 2010….PLEASE!

RobCon on October 6, 2009 at 5:33 PM

You know what’s sad? Since the state-run media is in the lap of the Dems and The One and the questions more than likely have to be approved by them, it means they were already thinking about this and didn’t need to be asked about it. That’s probably exactly what they want to do.

MobileVideoEngineer on October 6, 2009 at 5:33 PM

If health-care costs add so much to the price of goods, why aren’t Pelosi, Reid and Obama interested in cutting business taxes?

BackwardsBoy on October 6, 2009 at 5:07 PM

Whoa, dude. You are making way too much sense. In the “1984+25 years Congress,” stupid is smart. Just knock off all this logic and reasonableness.

Mallard T. Drake on October 6, 2009 at 5:33 PM

They are gonna shove this shit sandwich down our throats one way or the other.

Revolution anyone? I’ve about had it.

Flyboy on October 6, 2009 at 5:33 PM

i’m cool with a VAT.

after they eliminate the IRS completely…

homesickamerican on October 6, 2009 at 5:33 PM

A VAT OR or an income tax is acceptable; not both.

Chiasmos on October 6, 2009 at 5:30 PM

VAT is unacceptable if you want a productive society. It is a “hidden” tax that you never see, except from just higher prices of products.
Plus it is a tax on a tax, up through the production ladder, so every production step is punished, and more costly.

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:34 PM

Pelosi and her bootlickers are working daily on how they are going to rape “We the People” out of more money so she can line her pockets; ALL IS NOT ENOUGH for this parasite.

Cybergeezer on October 6, 2009 at 5:35 PM

i’m cool with a VAT.

after they eliminate the IRS completely…

homesickamerican on October 6, 2009 at 5:33 PM

Heh.

Durham68 on October 6, 2009 at 5:35 PM

The most vile of all taxes…hidden and a tax upon a tax, upon a tax…

right2bright on October 6, 2009 at 5:32 PM

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition…

Neo-con Artist on October 6, 2009 at 5:36 PM

Revolution anyone? I’ve about had it.

Flyboy on October 6, 2009 at 5:33 PM

Count me in.

We need a president and congress that RESPECTS AND UPHOLDS the constitution. Not this batch of dictators deaf to the people they’re supposed to serve.

Daggett on October 6, 2009 at 5:36 PM

This all about the rubes. The US rubes are objecting to any more direct taxes, so they try for the back door. The international rubes are running from the dollar, and rightfully so. Then there is the healthcare reform, which is so convoluted that Rube Goldberg has to bow his head in acknowledgment of the masters.

GnuBreed on October 6, 2009 at 5:36 PM

Everytime she opens her pie hole, my IQ drops! She is the DUMBEST politician I have ever heard.

Let’s recap some of her doosies, shall we?

“I’m trying to save the planet! I’m trying to save the planet!”
“Can we drill your brains?”
“The CIA lies to the Congress all the time.”
“They are showing up to these Townhalls w/swastikas…”

UGH!

JAM on October 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM

Pelosi and her bootlickers are working daily on how they are going to rape “We the People” out of more money so she can line her pockets; ALL IS NOT ENOUGH for this parasite.

Cybergeezer on October 6, 2009 at 5:35 PM

Well of course, we’re still too independent and rebellious against mother U.S.A. We need to submit and look to them for our “well-being.”

MobileVideoEngineer on October 6, 2009 at 5:38 PM

How will the Democrats sell it, especially with the GOP poised to make big gains next year?

They’re not interested in selling anything. They don’t give a damn what people think. They’re going to ram through as much as they can, while they can. They’re betting that by the time the GOP has enough power to repeal this crap that it will all be too established enough in the system to do away with.

Mark1971 on October 6, 2009 at 5:40 PM

Mo money….you can never feed a moonbat enough tax money to keep it alive. A consumption tax will fly like a lead balloon.

David in ATL on October 6, 2009 at 5:41 PM

Liberals want a VAT tax because they want to tax people without them realizing it…

ninjapirate on October 6, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Problem is, when the price of everything they buy goes up by 20%, people might start to catch on — even the Dim voters.

AZCoyote on October 6, 2009 at 5:42 PM

Problem is, when the price of everything they buy goes up by 20%, people might start to catch on — even the Dim voters.

AZCoyote on October 6, 2009 at 5:42 PM

The sad thing is I’m already seeing things go up in price or prices that normally drop as the technology gets more established aren’t dropping as quickly as normal.

The VAT would truly be the final blow to the U.S.

MobileVideoEngineer on October 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM

Has there ever been a study of the effect Botox injections have on the human brain?

malclave on October 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM

I vote for a Value added Replacement (VAR) for Speaker of the House.

gleep on October 6, 2009 at 5:47 PM

Problem is, when the price of everything they buy goes up by 20%, people might start to catch on — even the Dim voters.

AZCoyote on October 6, 2009 at 5:42 PM

Actually they will blame whoever it is that is supplying the good or service. They always do.

thomasaur on October 6, 2009 at 5:47 PM

Problem is, when the price of everything they buy goes up by 20%, people might start to catch on — even the Dim voters.

AZCoyote on October 6, 2009 at 5:42 PM

35,480,948 (41% of the voters) voted ffor James Earl Carter, Jr in 1980. mmmmm mmmmm mmmmm James Earl Carter

Wade on October 6, 2009 at 5:51 PM

I vote for a Value added Replacement (VAR) for Speaker of the House.

gleep on October 6, 2009 at 5:47 PM

Hope about some kind of Clunker trade-in for SoH.

Wade on October 6, 2009 at 5:52 PM

Comment pages: 1 2