Telegraph: Obama furious over McChrystal speech in London
posted at 11:36 am on October 5, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Do you think that a President might get a little miffed when his battlefield commander goes public in demanding a decision from his Commander in Chief? Would a President get his feathers ruffled when that commander also publicly pronounced other options unacceptable and compared them to letting half a building burn to the ground? Just possibly, according to the London Telegraph:
According to sources close to the administration, Gen McChrystal shocked and angered presidential advisers with the bluntness of a speech given in London last week.
The next day he was summoned to an awkward 25-minute face-to-face meeting on board Air Force One on the tarmac in Copenhagen, where the president had arrived to tout Chicago’s unsuccessful Olympic bid. …
An adviser to the administration said: “People aren’t sure whether McChrystal is being naïve or an upstart. To my mind he doesn’t seem ready for this Washington hard-ball and is just speaking his mind too plainly.”
Well, at least McChrystal finally got a face-to-face meeting with the President after that speech. After McChrystal’s appearance on 60 Minutes, it seemed as though it would have taken an act of Congress to get McChrystal some face time with Barack Obama.
As for naïveté, the real question is about Obama’s comprehension of the war and international relations, especially after the embarrassing performance in Copenhagen. McChrystal may not know the ways of Washington, but that’s not his battleground. It seems as though Obama knows Afghanistan less than McChrystal knows the Beltway, and that should be much more of a concern for the White House and its advisers than whether McChrystal is playing by Marquess de Queensbury rules while speaking publicly.
Jules Crittenden says that Obama should have learned a lesson about stalling generals while they await the CinC’s direction:
Theoretically Obama must be PO’d at Petraeus, too, because he essentially, if more diplomatically, said the same thing a couple of weeks earlier.
The big question now is whether this is going to be about Obama’s ego, or about winning in Afghanistan. If any general is ill-advised to shoot his mouth off, this business may also teach the administration something about blowing off generals at (unnecessarily extended) criticial moments and insisting that political parameters trump military ones in wartime.
McChrystal didn’t act insubordinately by speaking his mind. This is not even close to the situation which forced Harry Truman to cashier Douglas MacArthur in the Korean War, when MacArthur dared to publicly challenge Truman’s authority and judgment. McChrystal may have acted in an impolitic manner, but at this point, I doubt McChrystal cares much for political niceties. He has waited weeks for an answer to his analysis and request for more troops and resources, and he’s apparently not worried about being honest about his assessment in public.
Up to now, Barack Obama has made good moves in supporting the war in Afghanistan and adopting intelligent positions on resourcing and strategy. But as I wrote earlier, he’s reached a point where he has to decide whether he’s willing to go in for the long haul and actually win this fight over a period of years, or whether he will cave to his Left and refuse to make that kind of commitment. Hopefully, Obama will stick to his commitment made during the campaign to fight the war to a successful conclusion and break the backs of radical Islamists in the Af-Pak theater, but he’s going to have to actually make a decision instead of voting ‘present.’ If a speech by McChrystal that states nothing but the obvious gets this far under his skin, I suspect that decision will be a retreat.
Update: Jazz Shaw argues that McChrystal ought to be cashiered for insubordination, but there’s one fundamental problem with his argument. Nothing McChrystal said contradicts what the White House has said all along on either tactics or strategy. In fact, the only reason McChrystal’s speech is controversial at all is because the White House appears to be wavering now on Afghanistan, which isn’t McChrystal’s doing. Nothing in McChrystal’s speech differs from the “one voice” argument in the present status; it’s that it might differ if Obama changes direction.










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This is a strong point. If Obama truly is stuck trying to choose how he wants to proceed, he should not be wasting his time on things like taking over the health care system, let alone trivialities like the Olympics.
Obama’s current actions seem to indicate one of two things:
1) He doesn’t care much about the war in Afghanistan, or even the men dying in said war.
2) He believes he knows better then his military commanders how to proceed and believes the current manpower allocation and strategy is working.
18-1 on October 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM
It intimidates psuedo-intellectuals whose intelligence is based on an affirmative action sliding scale.
highhopes on October 5, 2009 at 12:26 PM
///
They back off,run from a debate and resort to child-like name-calling.
ohiobabe on October 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Trying to do things on the cheap. Secretary Gates needs to speak up. As it is, he’s beginning to remind me of Les Aspin, not to mention Don Rumsfeld.
Melba Toast on October 5, 2009 at 12:29 PM
No, they didn’t. They had clean passports.
But, hey, what the hell. We’ll just say “if you’ve ever been to Afghanistan or Pakistan, you can’t come here”. And that’ll make us safe from terrorism, right?
What about the Sudan? Yemen? Somalia? Britain?
Crawford on October 5, 2009 at 12:29 PM
OK fine then, we should be fighting the ‘real war’ in Saudi Arabia then. I didn’t hear it anywhere, there are reports that they trained in Afghanistan (that’s why we are fighting in Afghanistan so the story goes).
How could they have gone to Afghanistan without a passport?
I’m trying to come up with solutions. The only choice is waste money and lives or waste money and lives (for no good reason). Keep us safe. That’s the federal gov’s responsibility. They are trying to do that now by giving Pakistan MORE MONEY. . . 1.5 B a year.
Let’s cut them off completely. They can’t hit us if they aren’t allowed to come to the US. I didn’t hear this anywhere. . . this is an EXCLUSIVE SOLUTION.
I know, I know, we need to ‘fight’. . . but we aren’t fighting. We are wasting money and lives for nothing.
ThackerAgency on October 5, 2009 at 12:29 PM
“I’ve already won.” – BHO
mankai on October 5, 2009 at 12:29 PM
The good General did not make the decision to give that interview in a vacuum. I am willing to bet my next paycheck that Admiral Mullen the Chairman of the JCS at least knew about it ahead of time. And while he may not have given him the actual green light to do it, he at least gave him a wink and a nod.
Is it insubordination? The UCMJ article that covers insubordinate conduct is article 91. That article only applies to conduct directed at Warrant Officers, Non-comissioned officers (NCO’s) and Petty Officers. He may have violated article 88 contempt though: “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Johnnyreb on October 5, 2009 at 12:30 PM
The filthy lying coward has essentially back-burnered Afghanistan. McChrystal essentially has ramped up the attention which is right considering the number of troops that are being killed while Obama dithers around more concerned with poll numbers than American lives. Let me repeat that- The troops in Afghanistan are less important to the CINC than his image.
The filthy lying coward is just mad because McChrystal has revealed that it isn’t all about Obama and that is a very dangerous place to be.
highhopes on October 5, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Look Crawford, After 9/11 I would have turned the entire Middle East from Israel to India into Glass. I would have nuked Mecca FIRST.
We play patty cake. They like fighting the war against us. They WANT to fight war against us.
I don’t like fighting. . . I like WINNING. Nukes would have ended the war on 9/12. . . but our pansy gov doesn’t want to do that. . . our pansy gov. wants to make friends with Pakistan and ‘trust’ them to get Bin Laden.
What we are doing now is worthless. . . you are right though, what about all those other countries that we are NOT fighting in. . . why aren’t we fighting there? Why is fighting in Afghanistan alone going to keep us safe?
ThackerAgency on October 5, 2009 at 12:31 PM
“If Obooba is not using the army, I should like to borrow it for a while,” -Gen. McChrystal.
Akzed on October 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM
New, clean passports from anywhere in the arab/persian/muslim world should be a screaming warning bell, in and of themselves.
It would certainly help. Quite a bit.
Anywhere in the arab/persian/muslim world is suspect. Period. That’s just a matter of common sense. Britain? We should demand records of their visas and past passports to see where they have been.
progressoverpeace on October 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Speaking as a retired Naval officer, this “adviser” (read “jerk”) needs to fly out to an isolated firebase in Afghanistan and say this to the soldiers’ faces. Then this “adviser” will learn a thing or two about “hardball”. These clowns in the Obama administration are playing with these soldiers’ lives! Morons! General McChrystal simply realizes what the REAL stakes are here.
NavyMustang on October 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Boom–ed nails it and puts it into the context of the current international reality. Obama overreached, underestimated, and wound up empty handed in Copenhagen and, thusly, should be expected to do the same in Afghanistan where he is underreaching, overestimating and again, going to wind up getting his butt handed to him.
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 12:38 PM
What’s up with the talking advertisement, I’ve never seen one of those at Hotair before?
OhioBuckeye7 on October 5, 2009 at 12:38 PM
1. What did Israel and India do to you?
2. Why stop at the Middle East? There are Muslims in the Sudan, Somalia, Indonesia, Thailand, China, South America, America, Canada, Bosnia, Russia, France, Britain. Why not just nuke the entire world if you’re planning on killing a metric crapload of Muslims?
mjk on October 5, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Obama has already won everything he needed to win. He’s already peaked, so why work harder? He’s won all the perks, he won the big jet, the wagya beef, the big black cadillac, the security detail, so why the hell would he ever think of wanting to work at anything else.–Obama is on “coast” mode now, he’s got an “effing valuable thing” and he’s going to ride this biattch out for all its worth.
He simply doesn’t understand command, leadership, nor responsbility.
So, please, make him learn it the hard way.
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 12:41 PM
That’s better!
jdkchem on October 5, 2009 at 12:42 PM
As I posted above, Obama is so arrogant he can look at a situation like Af/Pak where there are geo-strategic stability issues, human rights issues, and (most importantly) American troops in harm’s way….. The filthy lying coward can look at all of that and somehow still make it all about himself. That 25 minute meeting when Obama flitted to Europe of parties was essentially a temper tantrum that one of his generals said something that wasn’t complete support of the dither strategy.
highhopes on October 5, 2009 at 12:43 PM
I wouldn’t nuke Israel or India. I would have nuked everywhere in between (and taken their oil).
But we don’t want to ‘win’. We only want to fight. They want to fight too. It’s like having Michael Jordan and keeping him on the bench because he’s too good for the competition.
In a War, you fight to win or don’t fight. We try to fight a war without killing anyone. Al Qaeda loves fighting against us the way it is now. It’s like summer camp to them. They go there to die for Allah, and that’s what they do.
Our rules of engagement don’t even let us go into Pakistan. When we made that rule, we should have come home. That rule ensured that we would fight forever because they have a home base in our ‘friend’s’ country Pakistan.
ThackerAgency on October 5, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Obama & GEN McChrystal are playing a high-stakes game of chicken. My money’s on the General. He has integrity and courage, and has the best interests of our troops at heart.
Obama has limited options. 1) He can fire McChrystal, which will bite him in the ass because McChrystal is right about our impending defeat. 2) He can keep dithering, which will bite him in the ass because McChrystal will resign & we’ll be defeated. 3) He can send the required troops, which will bite him in the ass when his libtard base gets outrageously outraged.
Option 3 is morally & strategically the way to go, but it requires a smidgen of courage. Option 1 requires brass balls. Obama’s a spineless crapweasel who cares about nothing but himself & his domestic agenda.
Option 2 will be Obama’s choice.
OhioCoastie on October 5, 2009 at 12:44 PM
No, assclown, he’s just war-zone seasoned and expects prompt assistance from his CIC in the real war, as opposed to the immoral war Obama is waging against his own country.
(sorry if someone said this already…didn’t read comments)
Diane on October 5, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Right idea, wrong destination. This advisor needs to go to the families of those troops killed over the weekend and defend the filthy lying coward’s dither policy to the next of kin.
highhopes on October 5, 2009 at 12:45 PM
What you say is the way it should be. But the general has to be under the authority of his commander in chief, he swore an oath to defend the Constitution, and owes loyalty to his nation and to the soldiers under his authority.
The problem is that Obama’s lack of decision will cost lives, and not just a few. It may also lead to terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. I don’t think McChrystal can in good conscience be neutral, as if the decisions don’t matter.
Ultimately, I anticipate McChrystal losing his command, but I don’t think he has much choice. Private objections to Obama will be quietly buried. Public statements are necessary, whatever the cost.
tom on October 5, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Compare and contrast:
“I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.” (DA Form 71)
This is deliberately in contrast to another oath that was to the head of state.
“I swear by God this sacred oath that I shall render unconditional obedience to Adolf Hitler, the Führer of the German Reich and people, supreme commander of the armed forces, and that I shall at all times be ready, as a brave soldier, to give my life for this oath.”
Not at all. Obama’s hand picked general, General McChrystal has changed the Rules of Engagement to ones that put low priority on American lives and Obama’s hand picked general, General McChrystal thinks that Islam is the Religion of Peace.
Obama should demote McChyrstal to Second Lieutenant and then announce that he, himself, is resigning to go live with his half brother in Kenya where he will spend the rest of his life studying horticulture.
MB4 on October 5, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Oh, yes. Of course. How dare he not be the artiste politic that Obama has been. How dare he actually voice his frustrations with the witless dipstick currently desecrating the Oval Office with his presence. It’s just disgraceful that the military commander of our most troublesome conflict, who has received no respect whatsoever from the presidency in the eight months he’s held office, would think to undermine the total lack of support he’s receiving from the same guy who just told World War II veterans to take a f***ing hike.
…you know, because all Americans are hungry for is more bulls**t-spewing politicians masking their intentions with rhetoric. Glenn Beck’s numbers confirm that.
MadisonConservative on October 5, 2009 at 12:49 PM
I’m not sure dithering until defeated is a viable option. If you haven’t noticed, the filthy lying coward is a one-issue-at-a-time campaigner. He couldn’t work on Cap & Tax until the Stimulus bill was through and he has essentially ignored everything except healthcare reform and vacationing since mid-July. We already know that amnesty for illegals is the top of the agenda in January. So, where in the mix does an unscripted issue like warfare get discussed?
highhopes on October 5, 2009 at 12:50 PM
McChrystal could resign, and probably should if he’s going to be continued to be forced to wait for the president to decide on this issue. The same toolbags who criticized Palin for resigning as governor, will criticize McChrystal for relinquishing his command. However, if the reasons surrounding either decision need explaining to those people, then they are never going to get it.
GEN McChrystal is a national hero who has spent more time than most others, fully engaged in the global war on terror. He will not tolerate watching his fellow soldiers get thrown under the bus. He has done this for far too long.
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Maybe McChrystal will file a case claiming that The Precedent is ineligible and demanding proof of his natural born citizenship? That would be sweet. Just to have McChrystal mention this, off-hand, would go a long way.
We all know that The Precedent is working against the interests of the US. He is the enemy. That’s why he’s all wee wee’d up with McChrystal. The Precedent wants a strategy for the US to lose, in a bloody and humiliating way, in Afghanistan, and Gen. McChrystal refuses to play that game.
Only The Precedent could declare a new strategy in March, hand-pick a general to implement it, and then, upon receiving requests less than six months later announce that he needs to perform a policy review. Another precedent for The Precedent. Unreal. And the fact that ANYONE is letting the Traitor-in-Chief get away with this is a scandal, in and of itself.
progressoverpeace on October 5, 2009 at 12:52 PM
I can’t understand why Nobama/Obamination would try to play who is right and who is wrong. McChrystal has a plan or he would not have asked for more troops.
And MacArthur when through the same bullshit with FDR AND Truman. If MacArthur would’ve stayed in command in the Pacific, Korea and Vietnam would’ve ended in a matter of months and not years.
Here is a video where Rodney Dangerfield(Back to School) explains is superbly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6JLHZ3eJZs
jaboba on October 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Of course Obama is furious.
All of his previous victories have been of the star/pro athlete/singer variety: make a personal appearance, sign a few autographs, say a couple of trademark lines. Unquestionable “win” and an obvious butt-kicking for the opposition. No need to actually do anything.
But this only if everyone adheres to the script. It always works in the movies and at rock concerts. Pro athletes get do-overs (and make most of their money via endorsements). But not in “reality reality”.
Unfortunately, events in Afghanistan choose to ignore the script. In fact, no one is adhering to any of Obama’s scripts. Our enemies and opponents see this.
Obama is starting to lose badly, and it’s because his limited abilities make him an incompetent who cannot be trained to competence. Even his appointments and selections are doubtfully competent. Do any of his hirelings, staffers and czars NOT fit this description?
Now, faced by the grim reality of “reality reality”, presented by a very capable general, Obama and his staffers are at a loss. “Reality reality” took 25 minutes out of their personal appearance (which now looks like a giant steaming turd to the entire world), and rather than accept the General’s recommendations, the Obama administration buffoons are trying to evade and spin, and clearly failing miserably.
Obama’s star/pro athlete/singer approach to leadership is failing, publicly, and embarrassingly. Who is surprised? Is anyone surprised?
Of course Obama is furious.
Arbalest on October 5, 2009 at 12:54 PM
My question is that while Obama is a meaningless dolt…why didn’t they have the same urgency as before…Or had I just not heard about it.
tomas on October 5, 2009 at 12:54 PM
From the Sergeant Major
MB4 on October 5, 2009 at 12:54 PM
Shh**tt! The Spineless-Weakling in Chief couldn’t handle boot camp let alone a creed based on valor.
Gang-of-One on October 5, 2009 at 12:56 PM
I’m happy to see that the military’s core values do not sway with time or the political wind. If Obama chooses to call it quits in Afghanistan, McChrystal & Co. will be on record showing disagreement. Obama will be holding the whole bag of blame by himself. Unfortunately, millions of peace loving Afghanis will suffer under a resurgent Taliban and al queda, and our soldiers will return home without a well deserved victory. 2012 can not come soon enough!
mperek on October 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM
We don’t win by destroying the Taliban. We don’t win by body count. We don’t win by the number of successful military raids or attacks, we win when the [Afghan] people decide we win.
- General McChrystal (in London last week)
Pre-occupied with protection of our own forces, we have operated in a manner that distances us — physically and psychologically — from the people we seek to protect.
- General McChrystal (from his COMISAF assessment of the war in Afghanistan)
Various pundits on the Right—Byron York, Ralph Peters, and Diana West—are having conniptions over the Rules of Engagement that Gen. McChrystal has promulgated in Afghanistan, which stress the need for restraint in calling in fire support.
- Max Boot
MB4 on October 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Compare and contrast:
If you’re going to contradict yourself, please do it on two different threads.
you said you wanted to nuke “the entire Middle East from Israel to India” which would include Israel and India.
Oh and why aren’t you threatening to nuke Egypt? They support terrorism, tough guy and they’re beyond your Israel to India plan.
Perhaps you should pick up a globe.
mjk on October 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Very well summed up.
McCrystal gave the world, and especially the naïve Obama, a reality check. He and Petraeus should resign if Obama doesn’t decide soon. Gates will just cover his ars/job, that’s all. Our Soldiers should not die for a ‘pretty’ face and an empty suit who knows nothing about being CiC.
Schadenfreude on October 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Obama is an incompetent loser of epic proportions and isn’t fit to carry water for McChrystal.
rplat on October 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Nation-Building in Afghanistan: It Didn’t Work the First Time
Gen. McChrystal in London last week:
“We don’t win by destroying the Taliban,” he said. “We don’t win by body count. We don’t win by the number of successful military raids or attacks, we win when the people decide we win.”
That would be the Afghan people, naturally, McChrystal’s unseemly and increasingly unhinged obsession. He continued:
“Why isn’t the situation better after eight years?” he said. “Afghans’ expectations have not been met. …
McChrystal said a clear change in “mindset” was needed because many current tactics are counterproductive and producing hostility and skepticism among Afghan civilians who must be convinced the coalition forces will improve their safety and quality of life.
Guess what, General? The United States of America has already tried improving Afghan safety and quality of life, and on a colossal scale, and it just didn’t stick. And back then, between 1946 and 1979, there was no Taliban “insurgency” complicating the social work of nation-building.
This decades-long episode of US-Afghan history has been erased from our national consciousness, pricked only by the odd “remember when” news report. Such national memory loss is probably due to the fact that these US efforts to improve Afghanistan — centered in Helmand Province, by the way, the Taliban-spawning, opium-growing region into which 4,000 US Marines “surged” this summer — have themselves been erased from Afghanistan. Of course, for nation-building utopians such as McChrystal — those from Right to Left who see different peoples and different cultures as interchangeable markers on a games board — reality never tempers the fanaticism.
MB4 on October 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM
How refreshing!!!
Blackhawk45 on October 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM
That just makes this whole situation that much worse. McChrystal is no MacArthur and has no intention of winning like MacArthur did. The fact that The Precedent even has problems with the milque-toast strategy that was proposed shows that The Precedent really wants lots of dead Americans and won’t settle for just a few.
Whoever designed and okayed the new ROE should not be leading anything. That includes the Traitor-in-Chief and all in the military who were happy to oblige the traitor in that pursuit.
The Precedent should stand trial for treason, but I’d be willing to let him leave and go live in a box with his bro. ALthough, I think The Precedent would prefer to head to Costa Rica, which is the cool place for wannabe Constitutiona killers, these days.
progressoverpeace on October 5, 2009 at 1:00 PM
http://www.veteranoutrage.com
So Obama and the democraps dont like it when the
US military tells them the truth to damned bad.
Here is the real truth for you to consider and i am
ex military – so i know a little more than obama does.
The democrat plan
pull out all troops from iran and afghanistan.
Deploy unmanned drones to fire a few missles at taliban targets.
Bring all the troops home and dismantle the us military.
Use the defense budget to shore up finances for obamacare.
You see democrats have always been
anti american
anti us military
anti interventionist
and this sowed the seeds for 9/11 now here is why their plan wont work.
Democrats in 1992 did the same thing setting the stage for 9/11.
Millions would die as democrats surrendered and pulled out.
Terrorists will be free to take over pakistan then with these nukes attack the USA.
In vietnam the democrats pulled out all troops then cut off funding
Result : 2 million dead
In cambodia 1975 in cambodia democrats did nothing to stop pol pot
Result : over 2 million dead 20% of the population
In rwanda 1991 democrats did nothing at all to stop the genocide
Result : almost 1 million dead.
In kosovo the democrats actually helped the muslims
Result: almost 50000 dead and a country split in half.
Each time the democrats decide to do nothing people die.
Each time the democrats decide to surrender people die.
We ALMOST won in iraq so democrats desire to surrender there
is almost impossible to stop.
In their world view it is america that is the problem
In their world view it is freedom that is the problem
and the democrats cant have people free now can they?
In afghanistan (remember obamas big campaign talk)
well i warned you her would betray our country.
Now he wants to surrender in both iraq and afghanistan.
Result: Millions will die in iraq and afghanistan
I really wonder which side the democrats are on?
For it looks to me like they are working for the enemy.
veteranoutrage on October 5, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Wait… more importantly, has Oprah weighed in on this? (pun intended)
D2Boston on October 5, 2009 at 1:02 PM
To quote the British press: “President Pantywaist” has his panties in a wad.
Susanboo on October 5, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Come on, mjk. Obviously, Thacker meant “from Israel to India, ‘exclusive’”.
progressoverpeace on October 5, 2009 at 1:03 PM
This Mission Is Not McChrystal Clear
Our troops are not in Afghanistan for a social experiment [they are not suppose to be anyway].
Deep down, national-security conservatives know President Obama will not wage a decisive war against America’s enemies in Afghanistan. They also know that the young men and women we already have there are sitting ducks. Ralph Peters notes that our commanders, obsessed with avoiding civilian casualties, have imposed mind-boggling rules of engagement (ROE) on our forces, compelling them to retreat from contact with the enemy and denying them resort to overwhelming force — including the denial of artillery and air cover when they are under siege. As the Washington Examiner’s Byron York recently reported, even some Afghans are telling our commanders to “stop being so fussy . . . and kill the enemy.”
Yet the national-security Right is urging that we up the ante and put another 40,000 American lives at risk in this hostile theater, under this commander in chief and the same military leadership that dreamed up the ROE. Why? To attempt, under the rubric of “counterinsurgency,” the unlikeliest of social-engineering experiments: bringing big, modern, collectivist, secular government to a segmented, corrupt, tribal Islamic society — a society that has been at war with itself for three dozen years, which is to say, since the first futile effort to impose big, modern, collectivist, secular government ran smack into Afghanistan’s tribal Islamic ways.
Many on the right who urge the troop escalation want no part of the experiment. But they are hallucinating, too. They have convinced themselves that just because they would take the fight to our enemies, Barack Obama also is inclined to do so: the same Barack Obama who has decried American “militarism” since he was a Columbia undergrad, whose top foreign-policy priority has been to make nice with Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood, and who would have to overcome every fiber of his blame-America-first being to wage the war that needs to be waged. It is foolish to believe that, and it would be much worse than foolish to put American lives at risk based on that belief.
To be sure, a general’s military judgments are owed great deference, particularly by those of us without military backgrounds. But labeling McChrystal’s proposal a “military strategy” doesn’t make it one, and this proposal happens to be short on combat planning and long on sociological theory. On the latter, we don’t owe him any more deference than we do the ineffable Joe Biden.
When McChrystal does get around to Islam, on page 38 of his opus, he botches it [epically]:
A more forceful and offensive StratCom approach must be devised whereby [the insurgents] are exposed continually for their cultural and religious violations, anti-Islamic and indiscriminate use of violence and terror, and by concentrating on their vulnerabilities. These include their causing of the majority of civilian casualties, attacks on education, development projects, and government institutions, and flagrant contravention of the principles of the Koran. These vulnerabilities must be expressed in a manner that exploits the cultural and ideological separation of the [insurgents] from the vast majority of the Afghan population.
This remarkable passage comes after McChrystal repeatedly cautions readers that “We must never confuse the situation as it stands with the one we desire.” He should take his own advice.
MB4 on October 5, 2009 at 1:03 PM
No one in the military was going to be “happy to oblige” the change in ROE that reduces our overmatch and costs lives by denying firesupport requests. It’s one thing to obey an order, it’s another to happily obey one…
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Of COURSE he’s mad. The general didn’t bow and scrape and act as if he was looking upon the new guy as if said new guy is the second coming! The president is OWED deferential treatment. He’s earned it! No one should question anything the president does or how long he takes to do it!
How DARE the general behave as if he knows better than the president? The president has years of experience in … er … organizing communities! He has spent more than two years campaigning for president and nearly a year fixing the mess that evil Bush made!
This is so typical! If these generals and crazy conservative wing nuts would stop acting like they know more than the president everyone would feel much better! Shame on the general and all these right wingers for complaining that the president isn’t doing his job. Don’t they know he’s hoping to change the world?
*cough cough … hack* Sorry.. I figured there would be someone who would respond in this manner and wanted to give them a break from the apologist game… The pathetic thing is, I guarantee you, were I to post something like this on HuffPo or DailyKOS, it would be applauded to the skies. Instead of seeing the sarcasm and absolute absurdity of it, the would claim these comments show there is clear support for the president’s hemmin’ and hawin.’ Feh.
Mad Mad Monica on October 5, 2009 at 1:06 PM
Pray for Petraeus and McChrystal. We know how Obama and his associates deal with those they consider political enemies. There doesn’t have to be any actual “dirt” on the generals, there only has to be the appearance of “dirt.” Obama’s lapdog media can then keep it going until our sun implodes and the Milky Way galaxy flies apart.
J.E. Dyer on October 5, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Dhunter thinks Pinnochio is conflicted by too much advice!
On one side General McChrystal ( whose ROE I have concerns about) and on the other General O’Biden
(Not really a general but who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once)
who wants to prosecute the war from 15,000 feet.
I say send em out back for a little bare knuckles brawl may the best man win.
Odds?
dhunter on October 5, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Why we let anyone from those regions of the world into our country-or for that matter-why let ANYONE anywhere illegally come here, or even legally come here who do not intend to contribute to our economy?
These refugees, illegals, STUDENTS should not be allowed to come here.
We open all our doors & let the whole neighborhood in & we wonder why we’re in the toilet.
And we are way too nice when we play war.
A little tough love can go a long way towards peace.
Badger40 on October 5, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Celebrity Death Match?
Oh yes…..
Badger40 on October 5, 2009 at 1:14 PM
If he wins healthcare he orders more troops….if he loses Obamacare debate he takes it out on the military.
That’s IF he’s a self obsessed narcissist.
PappyD61 on October 5, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Oh, my mistake. You are, of course, correct. It’s in the subtext, yes? :)
mjk on October 5, 2009 at 1:16 PM
So very well said!
Gang-of-One on October 5, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Unfortunately….this is probably true.
Pray for Petraeus and McChrystal. We know how Obama and his associates deal with those they consider political enemies. There doesn’t have to be any actual “dirt” on the generals, there only has to be the appearance of “dirt.” Obama’s lapdog media can then keep it going until our sun implodes and the Milky Way galaxy flies apart.
J.E. Dyer on October 5, 2009 at 1:07 PM
PappyD61 on October 5, 2009 at 1:17 PM
McChrystal is just voicing support for the policy that Obama espoused in August.
exhelodrvr on October 5, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Something I learned from a combat experienced Ranger talking to a group of butter bars who had a major CF in a convoy ambush exercise…
If you are in desperate fire fight you have have three options:
1) Make the right decisions and you might win.
2) Make the wrong decisions and you might lose some men.
3) Do nothing and you’ll get slaughtered.
This President is stuck in mode 3 and everyone in uniform knows it.
SPCOlympics on October 5, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Right. Because it would never occur to them to get a passport from, say, Saudi Arabia…..
Or do we just seal ourselves off from the entire Middle East?
tom on October 5, 2009 at 1:20 PM
That policy had an expiration date….
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 1:21 PM
MB4,
A multitude of Islamic scholars have acknowledged that the tactics used by the Taliban/Al Queda are not in agreement with the Koran.
exhelodrvr on October 5, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Such as.
.
Cave to his left? Surely you’re not this naive. You mean cave to himself, don’t you.
Fat chance. Dream on.
Right. Finally.
Basilsbest on October 5, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Troops are coming home from Iraq and we’re NOT saving ten billion dollars a month. Dear Leader knew full well that we weren’t going to save anywhere near that amount of money (to go toward his vaunted health care program), so now he’s staring down the barrel of another surge (and the associated expenses!) in Afghanistan and he doesn’t have a clue as to how to pay the tab, much less maintain the current costs! Meanwhile, Bonnie Fwank is trimming up to 25% of the Defense Department’s budget. Now you tell me how much sense that makes??
I’ve said it a million times; once more won’t hurt. As soon as politicians become involved in any military action, a cluster-doo-doo is the instant result.
I don’t quite understand what the controversy is all about. Once the decision to use military force is made, the only objective should be the successful completion on that mission. Either fight to win or get the Hell OUT!
GoldenEagle4444 on October 5, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Well, there are true believers (in strict ROE and such for some “hearts and minds” argument), and there are those who don’t really understand what is needed to fight a tribal culture (which goes quite beyond the individualistic rules that Western civilization has come up with). I’m not sure where McChrystal falls in this. But, wherever McChrystal is, The Precedent is nothing but a flat-out cheerleader for the enemy – lending as much aid and comfort as he possibly can – and McChrystal seems to understand this, now.
progressoverpeace on October 5, 2009 at 1:23 PM
They lie. The jihadis tactics are classical muslim tactics. Mohammed would have been proud.
progressoverpeace on October 5, 2009 at 1:24 PM
I wouldn’t go so far to say that the president is a cheerleader for the enemy; however, I don’t think the president sees the enemy as a danger or threat to our country–hence, feels little need to do anything about it except pay it lip service, march in place and vote “present.” This method allows him the luxury of avoiding it, and the military along with it, as he marches along his socialist path on the domestic front.
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 1:33 PM
I disagree, I think Pinnochio is kickin the can down the road until after HealthScare passes because he intends that which he intended all along RETREAT!
He will turn this Muslim country along with Iraq over to Muslim fanatics because that’s who he is, just like he will do nothing meaningful to stop Iran.
He just can’t do so before healthScare because his credibilty is almost shot now and he will never get HealthScare passed if he lies agin and retreats from “The Important War, The one we must win”
The only way he can save his presidency is to pass free healthscare for all and then AMNESTY! That guarantees a whole new crop of handout wantin voters for the Dims and may be why they seem fearless in their ingnoring the American voter!
Either way he is most assuredly a self absorbed narcissist who does very little but farms out his work to his far leftist appointees!
That is what will guarantee his administration will be the worst in history , it just started with the Olympics. He has put in place pointy headed academics and far left Libs whose only results will be epic failure. It will take a long Long time to recover from this degree of ineptitude!
dhunter on October 5, 2009 at 1:37 PM
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don’t believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don’t be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don’t take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
Mohammad, the Messenger of Allah’s eternal word, was not moderate. No moderate can legitimately tell another Muslim to stop doing the extremist things Mohammad himself did. Also, the Qur’an condones violence and coercion to further the Islamic agenda. People whom we call moderates are labeled hypocrites by Allah Himself in the Koran. Moderates will always lose the argument because, as ex-Muslim author Ibn Warraq says, “There may be moderates in Islam but Islam itself is not moderate.”
MB4 on October 5, 2009 at 1:39 PM
How Obama chooses to spend his time, when he could be deciding on a strategy for Afghanistan.
Wethal on October 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Politicians set the strategic goals for the military. That’s their part. They should stay out of tactical decisions as much as possible.
mojo on October 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM
I think he’ll do neither. I think he’ll dispatch either McChrystal, Petraeus or both, then order a troop increase showing how hawkish he is and throwing those two under the bus for opposing his plans to increase troops when that’s what he was going to do all along. He’ll try to pull out of this one looking like the only reasonable guy in the room while his generals will be painted as foolish. It won’t fly, Obama is tap dancing in a minefield of his own making.
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Judging by the endless flood of illegal aliens into this nation, “we” don’t care too much about border security. Afterall, to actually care about border security is RACIST!
Didn’t you get the memo?
Gang-of-One on October 5, 2009 at 1:44 PM
We are in a holding pattern for the next 3 years and some odd months. Perhaps we will vote in adults in 2010 and 2012 – you know for a change ;)
Dr Evil on October 5, 2009 at 1:45 PM
“An adviser to the administration said: “People aren’t sure whether McChrystal is being naïve or an upstart. To my mind he doesn’t seem ready for this Washington hard-ball and is just speaking his mind too plainly.””
Hm, replace McChrystal with Obama; replace “too plainly” with “at all.”
So, Obama met McChrystal to call him on the carpet. That’s why that pix showed Obama doing all the talking and McChrystal all the listening. What a dolt Obama is. He knows nothing of war and will not listen to the general who does and has a successful track record behind him. Worse yet, Obama’s minions sneer that McChrystal is “being naive or an upstart.” How utterly condescending. What ignorami these Democrats be.
SilentWatcher on October 5, 2009 at 1:45 PM
There is a name for that strategy it’s called Fortress Defense it isn’t employed because it harms TRADE you know the nations life blood.
Dr Evil on October 5, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Shh**tt! The Spineless-Weakling in Chief couldn’t handle
bootcheerleader camp let alone a creed based on valor.Gang-of-One on October 5, 2009 at 12:56 PM
FIFY
mrt721 on October 5, 2009 at 1:48 PM
let Obama’s minions keep talking. Generals have friends too.
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 1:48 PM
FIFY part deux
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 1:49 PM
progressoverpeace : I have to agree with you on this. Islam is built as an engine of conquest:
1. 4 wives (plus concubines). Back in the middle ages, when the europeans would die during the crusades, their wives became widows slowing the birth/replacement rate. The genius of 4 wives is that if three of your male warriors catch arrows or a mace in the skull, the one guy who goes home can marry the three women that would have otherwise been childless. IOW, you can have massive losses and still keep your population going.
2. Prayer 5 times a day. Everything about islam is regulated. How you shake it aftet you pee, how to wipe, how to walk, when to pray, how to pray, etc. If you don’t conform, you stand out. Stand out too much and….
3. There are only three things islam accepts from unbelievers: Death, Full Conversion or dhimmitude (Basically a form of slavery). Once they take over (as will happen in fwance in a couple of decades) other religions, and therefore other thoughts, are prohibited.
When you look at how Mohammed acted after various battles, then you see that the jihadist tendencies are the norm, not the exception (yes I know that the ancient jews, christians, pioneers etc did things that were similar. however we have grown out of it. )
As a euro centric/american population, we have a hard time understanding the arab/islamic world.. at our peril. We can’t fathom marrying girls when they are 9 years old. We can’t fathom stoning a woman to death because she was a VICTIM of rape, killing your teenage daughter because she wears western clothes and goes out on a date is not in our range of experience.
bullseye on October 5, 2009 at 1:51 PM
I do get creeped out about sending more troops into afghanistan. At some point, we may have the bulk of our army within range of Russian short range tactical nukes.
Gotta stop reading that dang Tom Clancy stuff. …
bullseye on October 5, 2009 at 1:55 PM
RULE #12
PICK THE TARGET, FREEZE IT, PERSONALIZE IT, AND POLARIZE IT.
Next up for the General……watch your back.
PappyD61 on October 5, 2009 at 1:55 PM
I just wanted to expand on my prior comment. When the berlin wall fell and the east germans flooded into west germany I got a bit nervous. My thought was that you could put a whole lot of spetsnatz into trebants and your would also have all of your dissidents convienently downrange.
My mother thought I was being paranoid. A while later we had a guest who was in the army in europe at the time. I mentioned what I thought and he went pale for a second. Apparently his buddies in the tank corps spent a week or so buttoned up in thier tanks. Not sure how widespread that was but at least I wasn’t totally nuts.
bullseye on October 5, 2009 at 1:59 PM
Saul Alinsky, allow me to introduce you to a wonderful invention by a certain John Moses Browning……
bullseye on October 5, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Better a little paranoid than dead I always say.
Badger40 on October 5, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Can a General arrest a President for violating that nations consitution? Just wonderin’ outloud.
long_cat on October 5, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Which begs the question: did Barry get all “wee-ee’ed up” over this?
VoyskaPVO on October 5, 2009 at 2:09 PM
A buddy was a tank platoon leader near the fulda gap during this time. This type of stuff happened — vehicles rolled out (not unfrequently) to confront Soviet vehicles. Moreover, they always had rounds on board.
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 2:10 PM
maybe the limits of “voting present” have been reached…..
ted c on October 5, 2009 at 2:10 PM
No. The U.S. Marshals are the only agency with the legal authority to remove the POTUS.
elduende on October 5, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Our military needs to just do the damn thang! Kick ass take names later. If they only could! They know what needs to be done to take the Taliban out. Let them do their job! Please for God’s sake give the additional troops. I work with soldiers and they’re pissed! Some of them are talking stupid…they just wanted to do their job.
Eyvonne on October 5, 2009 at 2:12 PM
No. That is Congress’ responsibility, or civilian police to arrest anyone for breaking regular law – but they would need to get an arrest warrant from the judiciary. Of course, a Precedent can be tossed out by the SCOTUS for being found Constitutionally ineligible due to the ruling on any case that is heard by them and arrives at that conclusion.
progressoverpeace on October 5, 2009 at 2:14 PM
I’ll defer to elduende in my above response about civilian arrests of a President.
progressoverpeace on October 5, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Would be nice if a commander in chief was actually held accountable by that oath they make on inauguration day, wouldn’t it?
Badger40 on October 5, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Don’t forget that he is not just a the Commander US Forces Afganistan. He is also NATO Commander International Security Assistance Force.
NATO has the right to know his opionion too. He commands their troops as well.
barnone on October 5, 2009 at 2:23 PM
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