Is today Military Dictatorship Day?; Update: Newsmax removes column

posted at 9:30 am on September 30, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

In case anyone thinks that one side of the political spectrum has a monopoly on paranoid ranters, we present today’s offering from Gore Vidal (Left) and John Perry (Right) on the coming American military dictatorship.  Both men agree that it’s a likelihood, and both men blame Barack Obama.  Let’s start with the Perry, warning in Newsmax that just because something has never happened before doesn’t mean we can’t predict that it won’t happen soon, or something (via Tom Maguire):

What happens if the generals Obama sent to win the Afghan war are told by this president (who now says, “I’m not interested in victory”) that they will be denied troops they must have to win? Do they follow orders they cannot carry out, consistent with their oath of duty? Do they resign en masse?

Or do they soldier on, hoping the 2010 congressional elections will reverse the situation? Do they dare gamble the national survival on such political whims?

Anyone who imagines that those thoughts are not weighing heavily on the intellect and conscience of America’s military leadership is lost in a fool’s fog.

Will the day come when patriotic general and flag officers sit down with the president, or with those who control him, and work out the national equivalent of a “family intervention,” with some form of limited, shared responsibility?

Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution through an interim administration that would do the serious business of governing and defending the nation. Skilled, military-trained, nation-builders would replace accountability-challenged, radical-left commissars. Having bonded with his twin teleprompters, the president would be detailed for ceremonial speech-making.

Newsmax actually ran this as a column, not a blog post.  It’s a lunatic fantasy straight out of Greek theater.  In those days, when mediocre tragedians wrote plots so complicated that they couldn’t resolve them through character interaction, the Deus ex machina (loosely, the Flying God Machine) would deposit a new actor portraying one of the Greek pantheon onto the stage to sort out the mess.  Perry fantasizes about a military takeover that would be the world’s most powerful Deus ex machina, mainly out of political laziness:

Unthinkable? Then think up an alternative, non-violent solution to the Obama problem. Just don’t shrug and say, “We can always worry about that later.”

The alternative, non-violent solution is the one we’ve been using for 220 years: elections.  We have another coming in 2010.  If the American people get fed up with the direction of this government, then we will change it in the midterms.  We do not need our military to rescue us from ourselves, thank you very much.

One might excuse this kind of nihilism if it came from a college freshman who had no sense of his own nation’s history, but this comes from a man who served two White House administrations.  There is simply no excuse for this hankering for a banana republic in America from someone who should know much, much better.

That goes for Gore Vidal, too, who envisions this scenario more darkly:

Barack Obama is failing as President and the US is in danger of sliding into a military dictatorship, says Gore Vidal, the American essayist and intellectual.

In an exclusive interview with The Times, Vidal, 83, reveals that he regrets switching his allegiance from Hillary Clinton to Mr Obama during last year’s campaign to secure the Democratic presidential nomination.

I don’t think Hillary regrets it, especially now.

Vidal added: “He loves quoting Lincoln and there’s a great Lincoln quote from a letter he wrote to one of his generals in the South after the Civil War. ’I am President of the United States. I have full overall power and never forget it, because I will exercise it’. That’s what Obama needs – a bit of Lincoln’s chill.” He also predicted Obama may be assassinated: “Just one lone gunman lurking in the shadows of the capital.”

America has no intellectual class and is rotting away at a funereal pace, he believes. “We’ll have a military dictatorship soon, on the basis nobody else can hold everything together. Obama would have been better off focusing on educating the American people. His problem is being overeducated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is.”

Vidal isn’t pining so much for a military dictatorship as warning about one, but otherwise it’s just as ludicrous.  The American military isn’t interested in conducting coups, and having dissolute pseudo-intellectuals blathering about them to the London press does the professionals in our military an extreme disservice.  It’s an insult to their honor, as well as ours.

Both men should be encouraged to take some time off and regain their senses, and should be roundly ignored until they do.

Update: Newsmax removed Perry’s column.  Bob Owens has their statement and a bit of Perry’s background:

It is also worth noting that Perry is not a conservative; his bio says he worked for both LBJ and Carter Administrations and Democratic Governor of Florida, LeRoy Collins.

Fair enough, but no one disputes that Newsmax is a conservative-oriented news and opinion site.  This wasn’t a blog post but a column published by Newsmax.  They made the decision to publish it, and thankfully they made the decision to remove it.


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Agreed, we don’t need the military staging a coup to rid us of Obama. But what if the administration uses the Patriot Act’s ability for government agents to issue National Security Letter (NSLs) against American citizens and “sneak and peak” warrants to do what President Wilson did with his Sedition Act; history says 150,000 people were imprisoned for criticizing him and government..

“Sneak and peak” warrants allow the government to search your home without your knowledge. In 2008, this power was used just three times in terrorism investigations and 760 times in regular criminal investigations. But those are only the ones specifically identified. Records indicate that at least 1200 have been issued.

NSLs are issued by the FBI to individuals and businesses to obtain information about the target of a foreign intelligence or terrorism investigation by obtaining financial, credit, telephone, and Internet usage records. NO subpoena or search warrant is required before an NSL is issued. So they have been abused and used against Americans with no terrorist ties violating the 4th and 1st Amendments. Finally on September 10th a federal court under federal judge Victor Marrero declared portions of the USA PATRIOT Act dealing with National Security Letters (NSLs) to be unconstitutional. The court found that the NSL secrecy requirements violated the First Amendment rights of NSL recipients. In addition, the court found that the PATRIOT Act did not provide an adequate opportunity for judicial review of NSLs.

November 2010 may not come soon enough since too many in congress now support this president regardless of his actions and publicly announced intentions. Just as the Tennessee 1999 Income Tax protest shut down legislative action by utilizing MLK’s peaceful tactics of sit-ins and demonstrations, so can we with OUR Congress if they refuse to listen to Americans. MLK tried demonstrations (our TEA Parties and outrage at town hall meetings), picketing (as some did at congressional offices) and finally sit-ins to disrupt corrupt and civil liberties limiting establishments.

Our Grand TEA Party in DC on 9/12 apparently did not impress Congress; some congressional staffers have reportedly said congress intends to wait us out. That didn’t work in Tennessee, they still do not have a state income tax.

amr on September 30, 2009 at 10:37 AM

And that is exactly my point. Because, that is exactly where he is headed. By design. Alinsky’s Rules, were a roadmap to get to where they are today. They will not be able to help themselves, they will make a grab for it all and overreach badly. It is what they )The Left) do. The Scorpion will always be a Scorpion.

mrpeabody on September 30, 2009 at 10:31 AM

I thought the ultimate ends of the Alinsky method of takeover was oriented around convincing the people to want more government and/or getting them to be dependent on it incrementally.

I think Democrats are over-reaching but I don’t think even they consider an actual government takeover, cancelling elections etc. They control Congress and the Whitehouse and they still can’t get their signature bills passed (healthcare and cap and trade) mostly because enough Democrats realize it’s not the will of the people.

Besides, they are too incompetent to actually pull it off.

gwelf on September 30, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Somehow I doubt Gore Vidal’s problem with Obama is his anti-American-ness or that he’s “ruining this country.”

That is what Vidal *wants*. He is typical of someone who has contempt for the Constitution and the American people.

yellow_railroad on September 30, 2009 at 10:31 AM

That’s true, but Vidal understands, at least, that America will not stand for it. Vidal’s problem, it seems to me, is that The Precedent is trying to affect this in such ham-handed way that it will spark these problems.

progressoverpeace on September 30, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Officers command the troops but NCOs (quite possible the most “conservative” group of Americans anywhere) translate those commands into action. And we/they wouldn’t ever allow that to happen.

The idea that a rogue officer or group of officers would support a grab for control of the U.S. is so far outside the realm of possibility that I am struggling for a word to describe that possibility; unhinged prattle?

E9RET on September 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM

Amen.

NCO’s DO protect Officers from themselves… regularly. But in this case, I cannot improve on “unhinged prattle”

paragon27x on September 30, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Officers command the troops but NCOs (quite possible the most “conservative” group of Americans anywhere) translate those commands into action. And we/they wouldn’t ever allow that to happen.

The idea that a rogue officer or group of officers would support a grab for control of the U.S. is so far outside the realm of possibility that I am struggling for a word to describe that possibility; unhinged prattle?

E9RET on September 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM

Amen.

gwelf on September 30, 2009 at 10:40 AM

And it’s not just the rednecks with 4×4’s they don’t understand, it’s grandma’s in their Cadillacs.

flyfisher on September 30, 2009 at 10:33 AM

So true. If my grandma was still on this earth, she’d be in the front of the pack marching on Washington.

txsurveyor on September 30, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Obama would have been better off focusing on educating the American people. His problem is being over-educated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is.

It must be really lonely for Gore Vidal to be the smartest man in the world. I bet that if you think you’re real smart, you feel lonely too.

I’m seeing a lot of this sentiment that “fill in the blank” is too dumb and “I’m” so GDFing smart .. going around.

Frankly, just as generals are forced to do battle with the army that they have, instead of that ideal military configuration that doesn’t exist (or never will exist), politicians, members of political parties, and citizens have to deal with the country (or whatever) that is in front of them.

I get a special pleasure knowing that those who run around labeling folks as “racists” must then live in a “racist” hell on earth of their own making as those “racists” .. just .. aren’t .. going away.

J_Crater on September 30, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Vidal: “His [Obama's] problem is being overeducated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is.”

How about: Obama’s problem is being overeducated at America’s socialist universities. He doesn’t realize how dim-witted and ignorant he really is.
Fixed.

Christian Conservative on September 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM

gwelf on September 30, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Let me guess… You were an NCO as well?

paragon27x on September 30, 2009 at 10:46 AM

That’s true, but Vidal understands, at least, that America will not stand for it. Vidal’s problem, it seems to me, is that The Precedent is trying to affect this in such ham-handed way that it will spark these problems.

progressoverpeace on September 30, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Possibly.

But, see that makes it worse in my eyes.

All that means is that Vidal would prefer the POTUS and Congress to be very deceiving and foist these atrocious, traitorous policies on a country of people who want nothing to do with it.

In their eyes, it should be shoved on people regardless.
It’s deceitful and disgusting.

yellow_railroad on September 30, 2009 at 10:47 AM

amr on September 30, 2009 at 10:37 AM

This is why many of us on the left opposed these laws back when they were passed.

Bleeds Blue on September 30, 2009 at 10:49 AM

The Vidal and Perry fantasies remind me of the Hollywood one about Chavez and Castro being good for their people and good for democracy.

While Perry raises some serious issues, I don’t foresee our military taking over the government any time soon. But street violence, at or exceeding 1960′s levels, seems likely.

petefrt on September 30, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Idiots.

Red Cloud on September 30, 2009 at 9:43 AM

Pretty much.
Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right.

Count to 10 on September 30, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Let me guess… You were an NCO as well?

paragon27x on September 30, 2009 at 10:46 AM

No – I’m just someone who has an appreciation for them and has a hard time believing our military would participate in any coup unless our nation were truly being turned into a dictatorship. God bless you for your service.

gwelf on September 30, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Let me guess… You were an NCO as well?

paragon27x on September 30, 2009 at 10:46 AM

NCO’s real power over officers (at least in my line of work) ends when the officer puts on train tracks. That is when the shift from nursemaid to advisor happens IMHO.

What I hate is the NCO’s who let the junior guys know when they are saving the officers ass. It causes way to many problems down the line.

Squid Shark on September 30, 2009 at 10:51 AM

Perry and Vidal are both fantasizing.

But there is a more realistic threat of a military dictatorship, even though it also is relatively remote.

Police States are the natural governmental evolution of Totalitarians, Fascists and Communists.

And we definitely have a Totalitarian wannabe in the White House, whatever he calls himself and whatever the media chooses to ignore about it.

notagool on September 30, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Absolutely the only way this would have even the most remote chance of happening is if something as drastic as the President declaring a dictatorship and suspending elections, or ordering the military to suppress American citizens. And, I don’t mean something like the LA riots or the Katrina aftermath or some other requirement to maintain order that has an acknowledged legitimate basis.

The simple fact is that members of the American armed forces believe in the rightness of civilian authority over the military. They don’t believe in military dictatorships and don’t see a usurping power as a legitimate response to bad administrations or foreign challenges.

Interestingly, the South American militaries I’ve dealt with have a completely different view. They see themselves as guarantors of the state and the people. They are not necessiarly subordinate to the civilian leadership (although they operate that way up to a point) but almost co-equal in maintaining the state. If, the government gets too far out of line then they see it not only as legitimate, but their duty, to bring them back. It’s a very different paradigm.

SoonerMarine on September 30, 2009 at 10:53 AM

He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is.

His “audience”? The hopey-changey dolts who voted for him?

Buy Danish on September 30, 2009 at 10:54 AM

SoonerMarine on September 30, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Turkey shares this view, I have worked with the Turkish Navy many times. They often see themselves as the ONLY true garantors of Ataturk’s vision of an Islamic-whacko-free country.

Squid Shark on September 30, 2009 at 10:55 AM

SoonerMarine on September 30, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Thanks for speaking up…the viewpoint of those who’ve actually served may be the only thing that can convince some here of the true character of our armed forces.

gwelf on September 30, 2009 at 10:56 AM

What I hate is the NCO’s who let the junior guys know when they are saving the officers ass. It causes way to many problems down the line.

Squid Shark on September 30, 2009 at 10:51 AM

Agree completely.

gwelf on September 30, 2009 at 10:50 AM

I suspect you would have been a damn good NCO.

paragon27x on September 30, 2009 at 10:56 AM

It’s a lunatic fantasy straight out of Greek theater. In those days, when mediocre tragedians wrote plots so complicated that they couldn’t resolve them through character interaction, the Deus ex machina

Well, not only mediocre tragedians! Even Euripides does this, and to make a point about the weakness of man’s understanding. (“Things came about which the mind of man would never have expected.”)

Tzetzes on September 30, 2009 at 10:57 AM

amr on September 30, 2009 at 10:37 AM

The Fourth Amendment guarantees against searches that are used to harass citizens and the unnecessary seizing of property for similar reasons.
Nothing in that makes in unconstitutional for the government to gather information about any illegal activities you may be involved with (though releasing that information to the public might be considered harassment), particularly if you don’t know about it.

Count to 10 on September 30, 2009 at 10:57 AM

But, see that makes it worse in my eyes.

All that means is that Vidal would prefer the POTUS and Congress to be very deceiving and foist these atrocious, traitorous policies on a country of people who want nothing to do with it.

In their eyes, it should be shoved on people regardless.
It’s deceitful and disgusting.

yellow_railroad on September 30, 2009 at 10:47 AM

Yeah. That’s the way I perceive Vidal’s musings, at least. He wants America to be changed, but he knows that it takes real skill and stealth to do it, which he knows The Precedent sorely lacks (though Vidal tries to hide this by claiming that the audience is dull – but that is too obviously nothing but a dishonest diversion). Any con man knows that a dull audience is the easiest to con. It takes a particularly pathetic con man to run into problems with such a mark and I think Vidal fears that his affirmative action Precedent is just that pathetic – which he is, and that is one of the only rays of hope in this whole disastrous situation. Vidal’s worry is that The Precedent will ruin it for the “intelligent marxists” (as Vidal sees himself) by blowing the con – so he is hoping for the right to stop the idiocy, in the only way that the left would be able to retain some legitimacy. Otherwise, he knows that the socialist left will probably be run out of this nation (if the nation survives this affirmative action experiment).

I would tell Vidal not to worry, the US probably won’t make it through The Precedent’s tenure intact. I see secession in the offing, which is perfectly legal and a legitimate move by states who see the federal government as having broken the compact of the Constitution.

progressoverpeace on September 30, 2009 at 10:58 AM

I foresee a problem as our country continues to be more Blue State/Red State.
The Blue States provide the teachers and reporters.
The Red States provide the police and military.

We have already seen multiple videos of teachers and reporters acting stupidly.
It only takes a couple of the police and military trained people to act stupidly for us all to look bad.

barnone on September 30, 2009 at 11:02 AM

“Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I’ll sock you in your goddamn face and you’ll stay plastered.”
Oh Billy, we hardly knew ye.

inevitable on September 30, 2009 at 11:06 AM

First of all, I have to wonder if this country will make it to the 2012 elections. At the exponential rate of our decline and the constant threat against our God Given Freedoms, how can we assume that there will even BE elections. I know. Put on my tin foil hat and watch Red Dawn a few more times right? Take a look around. D*mn near every bill introduced takes away yet another freedom. H1N1 is no worse than the regular flu, but the underlying panic is there. They want to give our kids 4 flu shots! 2 for regular flu and 2 for H1N1 with out even testing it. They have our children singing songs of praise to Obama. He’s cut funding to our military, stopped production on fighter jets, won’t talk to our Generals, spends exorbitant amounts of money flying all of the country to push his agenda (or go on dates with his wife), but he never once meets with “the people” or bothers to listen to them. They claimed they had no idea the Sept 12th rally in DC even happened! Tell me how that one could have gone unnoticed by our politicians?!

Where else are we heading folks? Why else would the president and our other elected officials try to push things on us that they know will not work (health care, cap and trade, porkulus) and know VERY well that they will not help the situation?? Maybe they are that stupid. I have a hard time believing that. There are a lot of theory’s out there, and some of them are nuttier than elephant poop, but one cannot deny that our country IS changing, and not for the better.

The American Dream of working hard and moving up in life is dead. It’s been dead for a while and now the consequences are coming back to haunt us.

Do I want to see a bloody revolution? Absolutely not. No one (in their right mind) wants that. But I DO want to see our country go back to what the founding fathers intended; small government, for the people, by the people. And I don’t think we need to wait for the scheduled elections. If we are not happy with our leadership, then we impeach the lot of them with a vote, right now, and get leadership in Washington that will be for the people. This is our government, and we can take it back anytime we want.

anj413 on September 30, 2009 at 11:08 AM

Will the military execute a coup, no.

OTOH, will the military execute orders of dubious constitutionality? Without ‘zampolits’ at the elbow of every major commander?

That’s a good question and one we’ll never know the answer to until the moment of truth hits the fan.

Pray Teh One isn’t stupid enough to yank that chain since his ‘alternative’ defense force doesn’t exist, yet.

IMAO, that would be a ‘second term’ project. Fortunately, that possibility is looking a whole lot less certain these days.

Yeah, it’s crazy talk. But it’s only happening because Teh One ain’t acting ‘like a President’ and people at ‘gut level’ can sense it.

If the ‘rats get mega-spanked in the 2010 elections, his reaction [and governance] after the reality of that event will give you a MAJOR clue as to his ‘true temperament’.

Until then, it’s all speculation and educated guesses.

CPT. Charles on September 30, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Barack Obama is failing as President and the US is in danger

Most profound words in either article.

dogsoldier on September 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Has anyone seen what appears to be happening in Hardin, Montana? Private police force a precursor of things to come?


It can’t happen here.

singer on September 30, 2009 at 11:17 AM

These goof-ball watch too much tv…this is what a general would do if not given the men…pull back and expose his men to minimal risks. And wait for a real leader to be elected.
Generals of America follow orders, in the context of the constitution, and they do not have to follow orders that put their men at undue risk.
Generals in America don’t “revolt” they resign.

right2bright on September 30, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Can I be an honorary Texan?

I’m stuck here in Murtha/Specter/Rendell Land.

fogw on September 30, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Halp us Rick Perry — We R stuck hear N Pensilvaneya

agmartin on September 30, 2009 at 11:23 AM

The military doesn’t even want that. They just want to do their job and go home to their families.

spmat on September 30, 2009 at 11:24 AM

We are no where near anything like a coup.

Personally, I would prefer that scenario the History Channel has been running this past week with a terrorist “nuke on the Mall” taking out most of downtown DC, including the entire Congress … sort of a redux of the audience reaction to the “Independence Day” aliens destroying DC (they cheered when the Capitol was destroyed).

Military dictatorships are so messy.

J_Crater on September 30, 2009 at 11:29 AM

singer @11:17
Hardin, MT is patrolled by the county sheriff’s dept., and they are on the job. Hardin does not have a city police force. The private police force you linked to is out of Calif. and are being investigated by just about everyone with a financial stake in this deal. They are trying to swing a deal to use the prison as a training facility. Travelling I90 south, just a couple of clicks you’ll find yourself on the Crow Reservation and they have their own tribal police….the situation is/will be thoroughly taken care of.

24K lady on September 30, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Thomas Sowell has a piece today that warns of a banana republic too.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjVmMzc1MjVmYjdkNzcxNzExNTE4NzljMzBmZmMzNjI=

Advocate For Change on September 30, 2009 at 11:32 AM

Vidal is a bitter, old hack. He thinks he’s sooo much smarter than everyone else. He regrets moving back the US from Italy! Well go back to Italy you turd, so you don’t have to put up w/us stoooopid Americans that eat too much candy! He backed Obama b/c he was so intelligent? Well we see that isn’t working out, huh? SO just how intelligent is he? If he had half the brains of Bill Clinton, he would tack right to save his presidency. He ain’t that smart Gore and neither are you. Go away.

JAM on September 30, 2009 at 11:34 AM

24K lady on September 30, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Thanks. It will be interesting to see how it plays out though.

singer on September 30, 2009 at 11:41 AM

“When I see the worsening degeneracy in our politicians, our media, our educators, and our intelligentsia, I can’t help wondering if the day may yet come when the only thing that can save this country is a military coup.”

Thomas Sowell back in 2007

Alan Colmes kinda confronted him about this statement and felt that we weren’t heading this way because we have a rich debate, etc. etc.

Sowell replied “I hope tha you turn out to be right.”

The only video I could find on it.

neptunium_X on September 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM

my apologies for the lameness of the commentary on the video…

neptunium_X on September 30, 2009 at 11:46 AM

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same….

javamartini on September 30, 2009 at 9:44 AM

When ordered to confiscate firearms held by private citizens in New Orleans did anyone refuse to take part?

agmartin on September 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM

I like to think the military, our finest institution, would refuse to carry out illegal orders and that the leadership would simply resign in mass and publicly over such a scenario. Remember, we lost a lot of officers in the Clinton years and he did not use them illegally, though the aspirin factory attack was purely political.

JIMV on September 30, 2009 at 11:54 AM

One might excuse this kind of nihilism if it came from a college freshman who had no sense of his own nation’s history, but this comes from a man who served two White House administrations. There is simply no excuse for this hankering for a banana republic in America from someone who should know much, much better.

There is a problem with this argument…the Congress’s fixing the election process to insure incumbent reelection. The voting booth now takes a LOT of distress to remove the truely inept or crooked. Does anyone reading think that Pelosi from San Francisco is an any danger despite her astounding negatives country wide. Politicians have rigged the system, campaign laws to favor them, gerrymandering districts to insure election…If an election always results in sending the bums back, have we really had an election?

JIMV on September 30, 2009 at 11:59 AM

It’s a lunatic fantasy straight out of Greek theater.

Why? Because it hasn’t happened here before? Because the left are just “Good Americans who have a different idea of how things should be done.”?

The alternative, non-violent solution is the one we’ve been using for 220 years: elections.

Your funny! I guess all those acorn offices shutting down is proof that every election from here on out will be fair and honest.

We do not need our military to rescue us from ourselves

We’ll see. I wonder how those voter intimidating black panthers the barry regime freed are spending their time these days.

peacenprosperity on September 30, 2009 at 12:04 PM

Gore Vidal can’t die until Andrew Sullivan is sufficiently deranged to take his place.

J_Crater on September 30, 2009 at 12:09 PM

The US Military would not do this.

end of discussion.

ted c on September 30, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Clowns to left of me jokers to the right ,here I am stuck in the middle with(oby):)

ohiobabe on September 30, 2009 at 12:20 PM

The despot at heart always dreams of despotisms.

With the best of intentions.

Paving the Road to Hell requires heavy government control, and pressure, to force the peons to pay for both the fools who dream up and ordain these boondoggles and the crooks who milk as they construct such calamities.

Obama’s only sign of intelligence is in suckering the naive.

In that realm, he’s an idiot savant.

profitsbeard on September 30, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Obama would have been better off focusing on educating the American people. His problem is being overeducated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is.”

One of the central problems with the Left, is that they really do believe that everyone who disagrees with them is stupid, ignorant, or evil.

Oh, and Obama the supergenius? Put down the koolaide Mr Vidal. Being “overeducated” is not one of the many reasons Obama has not governed well.

18-1 on September 30, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Look like Wall Street might join in …

I’m told that Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and chief economic adviser Lawrence Summers have both complained to senior Wall Street execs that they have almost no say in major policy decisions. Obama economic counselor Paul Volcker, the former Fed chairman, is barely consulted at all on just about anything — not even issues involving the banking system, of which he is among the world’s leading authorities.

At most, the economic people and their staffs get asked to do cost analyses of Obama’s initiatives for the White House political people — who then ignore their advice.

Wow. Worse than I thought.

J_Crater on September 30, 2009 at 12:31 PM

When ordered to confiscate firearms held by private citizens in New Orleans did anyone refuse to take part?

agmartin on September 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM

No, because only in a few instances it was the national guard (and then by order of the police), it was the local police, not the military that took it upon themselves.
Don’t confuse a local police chief with a general…that is just plain foolish.

right2bright on September 30, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Wow. Worse than I thought.

J_Crater on September 30, 2009 at 12:31 PM

You can’t ask for advice, when you don’t know enough to ask questions.
And that is why he doesn’t communicate with the military…he probably doesn’t know the difference between a platoon and a battalion.

right2bright on September 30, 2009 at 12:33 PM

NewsMax has f’ed up their links and URLs to make this article by Perry not reachable. Clever, no?

You can even search their website using their own search link which will present URLs to you with a title that indicates that you will be taken to the Perry article.

When you click on those links you are directed back to the NewsMax index/home page.

Something stinks about this.

pabarge on September 30, 2009 at 12:35 PM

So Ed, you jumped to the conclusion Perry was a conservative w/o even bothering to do basic fact checking. You could work for the NYT!

TheBigOldDog on September 30, 2009 at 12:54 PM

pabarge on September 30, 2009 at 12:35 PM

They pulled it an released a statement:

A statement from NewsMax:

Statement from Newsmax Regarding Blogger In a blog posting to Newsmax John Perry wrote about a coup scenario involving the U.S. military.

He clearly stated that he was not advocating such a scenario but simply describing one.

After several reader complaints, Newsmax wanted to insure that this article was not misinterpreted. It was removed after a short period after being posted.

Newsmax strongly believes in the principles of Constitutional government and would never advocate or insinuate any suggestion of an activity that would undermine our democracy or democratic institutions.

Mr. Perry served as a political appointee in the Carter administration in HUD and FEMA. He has no official relationship with Newsmax other than as an unpaid blogger.

If you want to read it, go here To Confederate Yankee where it is republished.

TheBigOldDog on September 30, 2009 at 12:57 PM

After listening to Rush this morning and hearing what our Congress and President may be planning in regards to passing health care, this doesn’t sound so far fetched. I cannot believe that the people of this Country will let the Democrat party do as Rush has said they are planning to do, and not rise up against it.

Susanboo on September 30, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Doesn’t Dues ex machina mean “god in the machine” as in a plot device so obviously wedged in you see the author’s hand in the play, the author becomes like a god?

Time for nitpicking.

Rob Taylor on September 30, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Newsmax actually ran this as a column, not a blog post. It’s a lunatic fantasy straight out of Greek theater.

Your clueless reaction to this betrays just how out of touch you are with what’s going on in America Ed.

Is it a wild scenario? Yep. It’s a a lunatic’s fantasy? Not in the slightest.

You may want to wake up Ed and smell the coffee. Look at what is going on in this nation. Look at how we have a Socialist Party – a real Socialist party – disguising itself in order to disassemble what’s left of the Constitution in this nation.

You’ve got the administration pushing propaganda through the NEA Ed – what do you think will be done about that? Nothing. Someone will get fired and the next Socialist will step up to continue the work.

You’ve got a Congress that is passing legislation so radioactive to this nation – that they won’t even allow it to see the light of day before they force a vote on it.

You’ve got a justice department dismissing suits against Black Panthers who are intimidating voters all the while that same justice department won’t do anything to look into ACORN seriously.

You’ve got a man in office who has taken over the banks, the auto companies, and soon … health care.

And you sit there and say that you KNOW – 100% that the democratic process that served us for 220 years will save us?

It may – but if it does – it will be a miracle ED. You can sit there with your head in the sand and pretend that Ogabe really hasn’t done all the things he’s done – but you’re only fooling yourself. You can sit there and say that taking over the auto companies was a bad thing – but he really didn’t mean to take them over and give them to the unions …

Yeah Ed – wake up dude. Real life is calling.

HondaV65 on September 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM

I have full overall power …. blah blah blah – Vidal pseudo-quoting Lincoln

This non-quote, which was neither sourced nor linked, is being seriously challenged.

Another lefty takes liberties with the truth to conjure up a point, I think.

Mr. Vidal, source it or withdraw it.

ExpressoBold on September 30, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Just because a guy was a liberal in the 1960s and 1970s does not mean he’s a liberal today. I’ve known dozens of people that come over to the right since 1980 and Reagan’s election.

That was a really lame attempt at deflection by NewsMax.

AngusMc on September 30, 2009 at 1:05 PM

That is not a crazy concept at all!
Every service member swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

TheSitRep on September 30, 2009 at 1:18 PM

I don’t totally discount the possibilities. That’s why they’re called possibilities.

Given that, I wonder why the Obama Administration is so anxious to build its own “civilian army”. There might be some connections over the above.

My basis? That’s how many long-lasting dictators took over the civilian governments.

Run as a legitimate, constitutional President … then build a military government ruled by sitting Top Politician (i.e., ruling class).

Given the growing appetites of many Americans (especially in the D camp) for Socialism (i.e., free lunch + permanent low-paying job + a fascist ruling group/government), these things are possible in the soon-to-be Former Land of The Free.

TheAlamos on September 30, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Coup? Reminds me of my 9th grade Social Studies teacher who proclaimed that Jimmy Carter had to increase the defense budget his last two years or the Generals would have tossed him out in a coup…heh. Yeah, if the troops would have listened to that – especially in 1979-1980.

To those fearing a coup – lighten up, relax, it ain’t going to happen. To those desiring one – sorry, see you at the ballot box.

Those who have pointed out the Turks or certain South American militiaries are on the right track. Other countries armed forces have had, and do see themselves now in a very different role than ours.

LTC John on September 30, 2009 at 1:31 PM

The US Military would not do this.
end of discussion.
ted c on September 30, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Given the choice of watching the country go down the toilet or acting on orders to suppress the population you think they would obey rather then put barry under their thumb? God I hope you are wrong.

peacenprosperity on September 30, 2009 at 1:32 PM

It is also worth noting that Perry is not a conservative; his bio says he worked for both LBJ and Carter Administrations and Democratic Governor of Florida, LeRoy Collins.

Fair enough, but no one disputes that Newsmax is a conservative-oriented news and opinion site.

Fair enough, my eye, Ed. You positioned him as a loon of the right in support of the declaration that the left and right are similarly balanced with crazies. If your supposition requires support, you haven’t given us any.

This clown is from the Carter Administration; no further evidence of his stupidity need be presented.

Jaibones on September 30, 2009 at 1:53 PM

And you sit there and say that you KNOW – 100% that the democratic process that served us for 220 years will save us?

HondaV65 on September 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM

Yep, I know this. I have a little more faith in our country and our Constitution than you do, though.

Proud Rino on September 30, 2009 at 1:54 PM

I don’t think this would ever happen over Afghanistan, but I am leaving all the possibilities open in the case of a massive domestic or worldwide financial crisis. Took a hurricane for New Orleans to go to anarchy and looting, imagine something more drawn out, with people such as police and military not receiving their pay.

LevStrauss on September 30, 2009 at 2:09 PM

I predict that in 2010 all hell will break loose. The dems will be voted out en masse, and will deny reality. I think they will imagine some right wing “ACORN” as being responsible for mass fraud and claim themselves that the election is illegitimate and may refuse to give up their seats in Congress, thus creating a crisis and civil unrest that would give “Teh Won” the excuse he needs to suspend civil liberties, etc

I expect them to do the normal democrat fraud and steal any election that was not won by at least a 5 figure margin through the ‘count all the votes’ scams.

That said, if things go as expected, republicans should win a LOT of seats next year…we would win hundreds if districts were not gerrymandered to protect incumbents and campaign finance law did not insure challengers have a very hard time.

JIMV on September 30, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Gore Vidal is…

“…long of tooth” and soft of gums…”

Newsmaxs’ editorial elite; should know…

“Damn well better!”

Geezer on September 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM

With the extreme tension in this country right now, I can envision some sort of civil strife (uprisings, literally armed class-warfare, etc), I just can’t put my finger on it. But I have often wondered which way the military would respond. I have no doubt there would NOT be a military coup but I can see them not taking sides aginst their own countrymen. There are both cons and libs in the military but I think the majority is con. I wonder how they would play their hand. That’s not paranoia, I’m just wondering if something major were to go down how it would play out, that’s all.

Big John on September 30, 2009 at 2:39 PM

We would need our military to rescue us indeed, if zero the anti-hero manipulates things to the point where our constitution is no more valuable than used toilet paper under his administration, the houses won’t remedy the issue, and the supreme court sits idly by and refuses to do anything about it.

With this as5hat in office, knowing what his roots are and what his “friends” want for this country, I do NOT put this out of the realm of possibility. In this case the people cannot do this alone, especially when election results don’t mesh with the wants of the people en masse such as it is in Iran, and zero pulls a Honduran move.

You’d sit there and wait for another rigged election and hope for the best AP? /spit. Give our system a chance, yes absolutely. But when the system has been corrupted and bypassed to the point where it’s can no longer be recognized, we will need help restoring it and executing the perpetrators of the mess.

Spiritk9 on September 30, 2009 at 3:43 PM

er….ED, not AP…sorry

Spiritk9 on September 30, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution through an interim administration that would do the serious business of governing and defending the nation. Skilled, military-trained, nation-builders would replace accountability-challenged, radical-left commissars. Having bonded with his twin teleprompters, the president would be detailed for ceremonial speech-making.

1) I’m not an expert on the US military, but I used to be a member and remain in touch with many of them today. They dislike the President and Congress in large numbers. However, their oaths are to the Constitution and to follow the lawful orders of the President and the Officers appointed over them. They will do so.

2) The vast majority of these Men, if given the order by President Obama declaring martial law through legal ledgerdemain, would follow it, especially if the order was supported as a response to riots or large natural disasters, or terrorist attacks. Where do almost all the terrorist attacks come from today? Lefties or RightWingers? Who throws bombs at government buildings? Lefties or Right Wingers? I submit that only by false flag operations in which Lefties create the very riots they fear through the use of criminal thugs (who usually have no political affiliation), could they succeed.

3) Any President who orders such martial law would be completely in control of the military, as long as there was legal authorization for him to do so. They would follow his orders, including putting down riots, demonstrations, and displays contrary to good order and discipline under martial law, and they would be correct to do so, given lawful orders.

4) Only when given orders which cast doubt on the legality of the situation, or when given circumstances in which the commanders on the scene feel the orders given are more deadly than necessary, or when confronted with situations which their judgment tells them would lead to unnecessary civilian casualties and little or no danger to their troops, would these officers refuse to follow those orders or modify their execution of those orders. If ordered to fire on innocent civilians without sufficient reason or with less than deadly intent exhibited, US commanders would most likely handle the riots in a less deadly fashion than the orders might specify.

Remember that in Iraq, in 2003, 2004, when the Sunnis and former Iraqi soldiers rioted for pay and used the crowd to shoot American soldiers, our Men refrained from firing in most cases and used discriminating fire in others. A handful of cases involved the killing of innocents and, if the dead had been American civilians, then American citizens would have sufficient outrage and power to lead to more restrictive ROE, and certainly cashiering officers who allowed it. If those officers had been ordered to do so by civilian leadership, you can be sure impeachment of those politicians would have swiftly followed.

I submit we have evidence in large amounts of EXACTLY how American military personnel would respond to crowds with no weapons (stand firm, unloaded), crowds with weapons, but using restraint (stand firm, but lock and load), and to crowds with no restraint and with weapons, who shoot at them (Katie, bar the door, you’re all gonna die). Since Iraq remains under control today, I am confident the US citizenry would be able to bring sufficient pressure to bear to end any US uprisings with minimal military incidents.

5) An armed US citizenry, in large quantities, and with significant shows of force, but with full restraint on the use of those weapons, and refusal to target government institutions or personnel, would probably cause the US military to stand by and observe the proceedings while maintaining the peace through use of deadly force in any violent large scale riot or uprising imaginable, but little action in peaceful demonstrations. Leave the rifles at home folks, unless you intend to really, no kidding, use them to kill someone. Our respect for the rule of law on both sides of the military, militia, Law Enforcement, TEA party confrontation equations would yield significant, but minor risk of accidents and deadly engagements.

6) The danger lies in the use of subterfuge and deception in fomenting the rebellion. Which group uses deceptive language in undermining US institutions and the power of the police in the country? Lefties or Right Wingers? Which group is expert at twisting logic and rules to benefit their kind and only their kind? Lefties or Right Wingers? Which group throws bombs at government targets, calls the police fascists, riots in the streets over jury decisions, and then blames the government for its responses?

Which group insists its opponents are too stupid to succeed (call us ignorant), then too impotent to succeed(call us teabaggers), then too evil to succeed(call us racists), right before the brutes topple the intellectuals and storm the gates and overthrow the king? Lefties or Right Wingers?

I submit that a false flag operation, run by Lefties or Right Wingers who want the military to act, and realize the only way to get them to do so is to create a rebellion where none exists, executed by criminals for hire, and guided by hard core anarchists or Socialists or Communists, would have a chance of succeeding. (That leaves out most Right Wingers, now doesn’t it?)

And it could only be defeated by news organizations, and other Lefties starting to do their jobs and report the Truth to the American public, OR by stalwart US officers recognizing the need for their restraint in the application of force, and still finding ways to put down dissent with firm but sure tactics. But why should they have to do so?

How confident do you feel that your college educated neighbor would do the right thing and stand his ground, but not shoot you if you advanced on his house with drunk friends with torches and he was the only one between you and his house? It is the same for the Officers of the US military. Threaten them with bodily harm, or failure of mission (protecting the government and peacefully protecting and restraining the citizenry from damaging themselves or their government institutions), and they are just as likely to make a mistake and blow your head off, as likely as your drunk friends would be to start a fight with them. The only known outcome in this case is who would win that battle, and it ain’t the citizenry or the Republic.

7) Finally, which group is ready to die to defend its right to exist? How many Lefties join the police, the military, or place themselves in harms’ way to serve their country, or their fellow Man? Near zero. Certainly less than 30% of the military. How many Right Wingers join those institutions and then come home and foment rebellion, just because they now have the knowledge and expertise to do so? Near zero. I submit that all the guts and backbone is on one side of this equation. Lefty anti war types, and anarchists who throw bombs, and intellectuals who support fascist police tactics are almost never found in the police forces because they are too big a Coward to place their lives on the line.

8) Would the US military support a coup by Leftist elements who try by subterfuge to gain power? Not willingly, and only if completely deceived by the thugs……… And no one is that good. Abe Lincoln said you could fool some of the people all the time (Lefties), and you could fool all of the people some of the time (last election), but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time (ask Jimmy Carter).

Ask yourself this: Is this administration competent enough to actually pull off such a coup through the elaborate subterfuge, fomenting of riots, extensive legal deception and forgery, and wholehearted participation of all its so-called liberal fanatic members and the entire press system (remember Fox News and radio are not in line with this part of the Lefty equation), the likes of which would make a 9-11 Truther look like a sane, rational, genius? Has anyone seen this kind of competence and ability in the administration?

The answer is……………. Not unless their Life depends on it. Because they really don’t care about your Life, do they? You’re the wrong sort, remember?

Subsunk

Subsunk on September 30, 2009 at 4:01 PM

And you sit there and say that you KNOW – 100% that the democratic process that served us for 220 years will save us?

HondaV65 on September 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM

Yep, I know this. I have a little more faith in our country and our Constitution than you do, though.

Proud Rino on September 30, 2009 at 1:54 PM

THAT, I sincerely doubt, sir. HondaV65 put his money where his mouth is.

Subsunk

Subsunk on September 30, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Doesn’t Deus ex machina mean “god in the machine”

Not really. ‘Ex’ as in exile, ex-communicate, etc. means ‘out,’ right? ‘God out of a machine’ is a closer translation.

I think Ed was just describing the stage direction the Greeks used. They would lower the actor portraying the god onto the stage by a crane (or raise him from below.) Hence the Flying God Machine.

chimney sweep on September 30, 2009 at 4:18 PM

Perry? pffffht…in the wind. The military will simply wait Obama out, though some could resign similar to the 1949 uprising (Google is your friend).

Vidal? He’s so elitist even Obama can’t cut it in his world. Vidal did write one funny thing long ago. He drew a picture which looked like a larger version of this– *

He then wrote, “This is an asshole.” He should have written, “I am an asshole” but…close enough.

Meremortal on September 30, 2009 at 4:48 PM

It’s too bad that the president and members of congress seem to have either forgotten their oath to support and defend the Constitution.

That being said, I still stand by the oath I first swore 27 years ago. If you think the United States Military won’t step in to prevent a dictatorial take over in the United States, this soldier will happily prove you wrong!

jackal40 on September 30, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Ahhahaha…

<<<——–
Perry>>>>>>—- pfffht <<<<<<<<wind !!!
<<<——–

Vidal… )*(

Geezer on September 30, 2009 at 5:34 PM

Most officers are citizen/soldiers taken from our society and as such represents our society’s respect for the Constitution.

The service academy graduates are (sometimes) wrapped too tight but they also represent the society from which they are drawn.

We have no (officially) recognized “upper class” where the second son goes into the military and is then more dedicated to the protection and advancement of his families “class” than the society he is supposed to represent.

Look at every country that is prone to military coups and you will find that “upper class” formula in place.

Yes, you will find military “royalty” John McCain’s family comes to mind as well as Douglas McArthur, but they are dedicated to the protection of our country and the Constitution. None of them then or now believe they are better suited to rule than they are suited to kill people and break things.

All NCO are drawn from the same society as the officer/citizens and also reflect the same society.

It is inconceivable that any group of officers could even begin to plot a coup because a s**t load of other officers/NCOs would turn them in or, well, just shoot them and then turn them in.

It just ain’t, despite your best fevered fantasies, gonna happen.

E9RET on September 30, 2009 at 5:34 PM

For all those that think the military would never overthrow Ogabe …

A little scenario for ya …

Walk with me …

In 2009 the Democratic Congress forces through leviathon stimulus, health care, and cap and trade bills which place the government in debt to the tune of TRILLIONS. A Liberty Movement arises which sees a million middle class people march on Washington DC and in major cities throughout the nation. It starts out peaceful.

However, as the full impact of the stimulus, health care, and cap and trade bills is explained to the American people – the Liberty Movement grows and anger with Democrats rises.

In the elections of 2010, the Democrats experience what should be a bloodbath at the polls – but there appears to be some widespread voting fraud. This fraud blunts, to a certain extent, the GOP reemergence in Congress. The Press covers for the voting fraud and the liberal judges ratify Democratic candidates who are the beneficiaries of said fraud.

The people lose confidence in their government – now the protests in the streets turn violent in some cities.

Shocked at the fraud – and to government reaction over the protests – a few states ban together and announce they will seceed from the union unless the fraudulent elections are thrown out and the government promises not to exceed it’s Constitutional authority.

With no change from the government – the states seceed – and seize all federal property within their borders.

Obama orders the military to take back the outlaw states.

Now the Generals have a choice … Carry out their duties even though they know they will be supporting an illegal government – or take actions into their own hands and remove Obama.

It’s a far out scenario – but not it’s not lunacy.

HondaV65 on September 30, 2009 at 6:02 PM

All this smoke, steam and mirrors and Hot Air are predicated on America as we know it today. If HondaV65s scenario were to paly out over the next few years (say 5 yrs), many things could conceivably change. Jeez, even the military changes culture after 5-10 yrs gents.

Bottom Line: It is not impossible that a coup could occur. But military officers and senior enlisted folks are smart guys who find other ways to make sure the guns stay silent, and the people and the Constitution stay safe. Too much heartache and discontent on this subject with a decided lack of beef and fire underlying it all.

Subsunk

Subsunk on September 30, 2009 at 6:36 PM

Ahh, the redneck revolution theory. If the losers that showed up on 9/12 to waddle around Washington are who would lead the charge that would be some real must see tv! Pay per view, baby!

simplesimon on September 30, 2009 at 6:53 PM

“…officers/NCOs would turn them in or, well, just shoot them and then turn them in.
It just ain’t, despite your best fevered fantasies, gonna happen.” E9RET on September 30, 2009 at 5:34 PM


Hey
“Top” …I’m thinkin’ both you and I might have been around…. though never involved, when that actually happened…on occasion?

It may have been for different reasons; however, the results were the same.

Geezer on September 30, 2009 at 7:04 PM

Ahh, the redneck revolution theory. If the losers that showed up on 9/12 to waddle around Washington are who would lead the charge that would be some real must see tv! Pay per view, baby!

simplesimon on September 30, 2009 at 6:53 PM

Of course, Cindy Sheehan and the Code Pink Uglies were so much more effective at leading the charge to end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, weren’t they? And look how President I Won is ending them so swiftly…………

Oh, wait……….

There’s a bumping Uglies joke in there somewhere, isn’t there?

Subsunk

Subsunk on September 30, 2009 at 8:36 PM

Sounds like both of them are suffering from dementia or something.

elclynn on September 30, 2009 at 9:08 PM

simple simon
I guess the nurses and doctors “waddling around Washington” are also rednecks? Considering the history of the Democrats from inception to present, my guess it would be the loons on the left who would be the first in line to cause unending sorrow in the US. After all, we have the kkk, secession, slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, destruction of Social Security, the Great Depression, and many many more ugly issues to thank the Democrats for and in a very short expanse of time. Of course, I would never expect any of them to admit to any of it.

elclynn on September 30, 2009 at 9:21 PM

Geezer – “Top” would be an E-8, he is an E-9 so it would be Sargeant Major (or Command Sargeant Major – depends)…

:)

I was enlisted back in the day – I still jump, just a little, when I see a CSM.

LTC John on September 30, 2009 at 11:40 PM

LTC John on September 30, 2009 at 11:40 PM

What can I say… Sir?
You were a “Lieutenant” Colonel…!

Olde “Buck” Sergeant Yosarian… sends all the very best, Sir…!

Geezer on October 1, 2009 at 12:58 AM

LTC John on September 30, 2009 at 11:40 PM

My apologies , Sir…!
I’m an olde Special Forces NCO…
Lossin’ ground as the creek rises…!

My Team Sergeant was an E8, Army, Master, Sergeant.
My Group Sergeant Major, was an E9, [CSM]

Thank you fore your indulgence…!
I certainly appreciate you corrections…

I’ll shoot your sorry arse “completely dead” the next time we meet!

Sir!

Geezer on October 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM

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