New crime in HopeandChange Era? Failure to insure

posted at 6:30 pm on September 25, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Senator John Ensign (R-NV) wanted to get an answer on the implications of the individual mandate in the ObamaCare bill floated by Max Baucus (D-MT) during the markup session.  Ensign asked Thomas Barthold, chief of staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, what would happen if a taxpayer refused to buy health insurance and then refused to pay the subsequent fine, which could run to $1900 for an individual.  Barthold replied that one shouldn’t do the crime if one doesn’t want to do the time:

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it “Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold.”

See the note for yourself here.  This should come as no surprise.  Thanks to Baucus, the IRS would enforce the individual mandate, and a failure to comply would impose the fine, which in Baucus’ own words is called an “excise tax.”  Those who refuse to pay their taxes will eventually go to prison for it, unless the person is someone like Tim Geithner, who then gets to run the agency that puts people in prison for failing to pay their taxes.

Great system they’re building in Washington, isn’t it?

Update: Somehow, I wrote “Sessions” when I meant “Ensign”.  Weird.  My apologies!

Update II: Second big question — will ACORN start providing advice on how to evade these taxes, too?

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Comment pages: 1 2

Well, jail will be one way to meet someone personally from ACORN.

Dhuka on September 25, 2009 at 7:42 PM

A large majority of 18-25 year olds don’t have health insurance. The irony is that this age group voted in majority for obama.

Oh, and new prison garb T-Shirts coming soon:

Obama is my HomeBoy!

TN Mom on September 25, 2009 at 7:43 PM

So if we’ve got 15 million or so young healthy people who don’t want health insurance, we’ll send them all to jail. They’ll all catch dread diseases from drug addicts in jail, then be denied insurance for pre-existing conditions, so we’ll send ‘em all to jail again to infect other inmates.

Now what did they say in the ’60′s about the sick society?

Steve Z on September 25, 2009 at 7:44 PM

dont forget under the bill the IRS has access to our bank accounts directly

ginaswo on September 25, 2009 at 7:40 PM

“We’re from the Government and we’re here to help”

TN Mom on September 25, 2009 at 7:45 PM

Obama is my Parole Officer!

Tru2my2 on September 25, 2009 at 7:49 PM

Scare tactics is all this is, can’t pass, what is going on behind the scenes whilst we deliberate??? Huh?? I don’t put nuthin’ past this administration….

Ozwitch: How did that all come to pass? maybe we can learn from your nations’ mistakes?? Guess I won’t be emigrating no time soon….

RoxanneH on September 25, 2009 at 7:50 PM

************************************************************

Scene: Set in black-and-white, a large holding cell in an urban jail. Filled with large urban men, in jailhouse prisoner uniforms, all of which are numbered. They all have jailhouse tattoos, and are grouped by race, chatting quietly.

**Thin, 20-something suburban male in civilian clotehes enters from off camera, looking very frightened.

**(series of close-ups, in increasingly rapid sequence)…

***Mexican Mafia prisoner #1: Armed robbery…

***Black Avenger prisoner #1: Assault and battery…

***Aryan Army prisoner #1: Home Invasion…

***Mexican Mafia prisoner #2: Heroin Trafficking…

***Black Avenger prisoner #2: Rape…

***Aryan Army prisoner #2: Methamphetamine Distribution…

***Mexican Mafia prisoner #3: Homicide…

***Black Avenger prisoner #3: Homicide…

***Aryan Army prisoner #3: Homicide…

***Mexican Mafia prisoner #4: Homicide…

***Black Avenger prisoner #4: Homicide…

***Aryan Army prisoner #4: Homicide…

*** Suburban Kid: Failure to Purchase Medical Insurance…

** All gang member groups stop chatting… face Suburban Kid, and smile in unison.

(fade to black, with voiceover…)

Announcer: 2009… Welcome to ObamaCare…

Black Avenger #1: You’ll need some medical care now, Fresh fish… (laughs)

************************************************************

Any budding video directors out there?

JohnGalt23 on September 25, 2009 at 7:53 PM

The entire mess is unconstitutional.

dogsoldier on September 25, 2009 at 7:55 PM

Mmm, mmm, mm!
Obama knows what’s right!
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Your in Obama’s sights!
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Ya better do what’s right!
Mmm, mmm, mm!

DSchoen on September 25, 2009 at 7:40 PM

Barak Hussein Obama.

His plan will kill your Grandma.

You’ll be in debt but have to pay

Or in the the jail you’ll stay…..

Mmm Mmm Mm.

highhopes on September 25, 2009 at 8:01 PM

FYI
Necessities in prison might not be “free.” In many states, inmates pay for medical care, a nominal amount to us but a fortune to someone making around $.25/hour. That is IF you’re one of the lucky ones to get a prison job. And, if you want any kind of real food, soap, toothpaste, etc, you pay for that too.

itsacookbook on September 25, 2009 at 8:06 PM

For some reason, this story reminds me of the scene in North Dallas Forty where Nick Nolte ridicules O lineman Joe Bob: “Joe Bob’s Fine Foods…Eat here or I’ll kill you?”

Erich66 on September 25, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Pitchforks and torches outside the gates!

Alden Pyle on September 25, 2009 at 8:09 PM

The fact that they would even put such a thing in there is frightening.

itsacookbook on September 25, 2009 at 8:11 PM

Obama has said from the very beginning that his plan is totally optional. You can always choose to pay a fine and/or go to prison if you want.

Obama’s new motto: It’s better than a free country; it’s an Obamanation!

logis on September 25, 2009 at 8:13 PM

ginaswo on September 25, 2009 at 7:40 PM

Due process anyone? Even a mediocre constitutional scholar should know that.

jdkchem on September 25, 2009 at 8:16 PM

You can’t get rid of pre-existing conditions without an individual mandate. Otherwise, the slackers would not take out insurance until they got sick and then demand the “full Obama.” Insurance requires healthy people paying into the system for the eventuality that they will need services.

highhopes on September 25, 2009 at 7:38 PM

If your federalization program can’t survive without doing something unconstitutional, like mandate every American buy something from a third party, then I guess that puts the kibosh on your federalization program. Of course I’m an extremist, not looking to be “reasonable”. “Reasonable” people know the Constitution has to flex to the whim of Democrats.

Regarding the economics, Thomas Sowell wonders why health care can’t be purchased on credit like everything else,as it once was? For of course the absence of cash up front means a long-term bill, not 100% defaults.

I agree Erwin Chemirinski is a yahoo. I just relate that liberals are gonna meet us head-on over the power of Congress to tax you for not shopping.

I also say the basic tax penalty is a bill of attainder, a violation of due process, and cruel and unusual punishment. If Congress thinks nonpurchase of insurance is worthy of arbitrary punishment, let it amend the Penal Code, indict a suspect, and give him a jury trial to determine guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Having a bureaucrat determine a suspect is guilty, assess a fine, and force the citizen to exhaust administrative remedies before undertaking a civil suit against the government, seems an end run around the 4th and 8th Amendments.

Chris_Balsz on September 25, 2009 at 8:17 PM

highhopes on September 25, 2009

Isn’t that just human nature? Why should I pay for something that’s FREE!

DSchoen on September 25, 2009 at 8:18 PM

If the state of Oregon allows euthanasia, how is the federal government going to impose fines and jail to those who chose not to have medical care, or by extention insurance?

Rovin on September 25, 2009 at 8:25 PM

I was going to say that we will have plenty of room in Gitmo for all of those uninsured deadbeats by the end of the year, but even that is not a guarantee.

mizflame98 on September 25, 2009 at 8:28 PM

If the state of Oregon allows euthanasia, how is the federal government going to impose fines and jail to those who chose not to have medical care, or by extention insurance?

Rovin on September 25, 2009 at 8:25 PM

That’s the beauty of the Baucus Method: it’s not a crime, it’s a levy. The dead will still owe from their estate.

I think we can scrap the whole federal penal code! “Mr. Sheikh Mohammed, a review of your file shows you were an Al Qaeda mastermind from 1999 to 2005. You are penalized accordingly plus interest and late fees. Your total balance owing is $1,507,930.00″. “Mr. Jones, you apparently operated as a heroin dealer. You must pay a tax penalty of $34,000.” And then THEY have the burden to prove they don’t owe. Screw this whole innocent til proven guilty crap! Thank you, Senator Baucus!

Chris_Balsz on September 25, 2009 at 8:29 PM

COME ON, GOP. Whaddya waitin’ for??? Hit them. And again. And again.

hoosiermama on September 25, 2009 at 8:30 PM

highhopes on September 25, 2009 at 8:01 PM

Funniest thing I have read all day Highhopes!

On the subject;

On a finance oriented website I visit during the trading day I posted this news. Two usually silent members of the community offered they would rather go to jail.

Amazing and further indications Americans are absolutely fed up with this progressive tyranny from Washington.

FireBlogger on September 25, 2009 at 8:31 PM

But won’t I be getting free healthcare in jail?

myrenovations

Yes….with free anal probes thrown in for good measure.

A large majority of 18-25 year olds don’t have health insurance. The irony is that this age group voted in majority for obama.

TN Mom

I would love to see Obama and the Dems bring back the draft next, lol. Maybe the little bastards would finally get a clue.

xblade on September 25, 2009 at 8:32 PM

I will never submit to tyranny!

These commie bastadges can kiss my arse!

TheSitRep on September 25, 2009 at 8:35 PM

Yea, that’s it…put em all in jail and bankrupt the dissenters with fines. These people are nuts. It ALMOST makes you want to cook a frog.

scalleywag on September 25, 2009 at 8:41 PM

RoxanneH, same as it happens in the US. It either comes in attached as a rider to something else, or they introduce controversial legislation, everybody bloviates and a minor amendment is made that changes nothing but looks good in the papers, after which backroom deals get cut between both parties when all the hoo-hah has subsided and nobody’s looking, and the public doesn’t realize until we’re stuck with it. When they introduce these ‘levies’ they are always very small at first, but unsurprisingly over time, they get bigger. 0.5 here, 0.5 there, you know. Always easier to raise an existing tax than introduce a new one.
We the public are also partly responsible because most of us find Parliament and politicians mind-bogglingly boring and don’t pay attention. We’d rather be at the beach instead of watching our democratic process. So mea culpa there.

Ozwitch on September 25, 2009 at 8:45 PM

COME ON, GOP. Whaddya waitin’ for??? Hit them. And again. And again.

hoosiermama on September 25, 2009 at 8:30 PM

****snicker****

The GOP is too busy supporting fundraisers for Romney.

Fletch54 on September 25, 2009 at 8:47 PM

Actually, this makes perfect sense if you understand ObamaMath. Force a healthy, young person to pay a $1,900 fine or a $25,000 penalty for not buying something they don’t want. If they don’t pay up, send them to the slammer for a taxpayer cost of $30,000 to $36,000 a year. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

Barb Dwyer on September 25, 2009 at 8:47 PM

3 Free Hot Meals
Free Cot
Free Shoes, Shirt, Shorts, Pants
Free Utilities
Free Laundry
Free Medical

So if you evade paying your taxes like most of Husseins Clowns, no problem.
You assist individuals to setup Brothels using underage shildren, no problem.
Insist that Taxpayer Funded Organizations use their talents to promote political agenda, no problem.
Piss away $787 Billion Taxpayer Dollars, no problem.

You don’t go along with an Unconstitutional Gov’t Mandated Program you could go to jail for 1 year? This is a Problem?

This is Straight Up SOCIALISM!

NO TO HEALTH CARE….NO TO HEALTH CARE…NO TO HEALTH CARE

Remember to vote in 2010 and 2012

BigMike252 on September 25, 2009 at 8:47 PM

I am outraged. I just caught the news and am I to understand that our beloved congress voted against allowing the 72 hour window of review? These bastards are going to ram this new monstrosity right down our throats- they added the public option back in, and God knows what else.
They’re going to do it in the middle of the night with knives held to the bluedogs throats.

The only gratifying aspect is that Obama’s popularity will plummet even lower than it is. He’ll never regain America’s trust. I despise him.

anniekc on September 25, 2009 at 9:04 PM

Finally, some truth.

BKeyser on September 25, 2009 at 9:11 PM

Ooops, the link didn’t work…

Finally, some truth.

BKeyser on September 25, 2009 at 9:12 PM

This just can not be Constitutional.

Terrye on September 25, 2009 at 6:59 PM
Erwin Chemirinsky was on the radio yesterday and says Article I’s reference to “general welfare” justifies any tax Congress wants to pass.

Chris_Balsz on September 25, 2009 at 7:11 PM

And he would most definately be wrong. For the grammar of that passage is most important. You see, the statement ends in a semi colon and represents a general rule followed by a limiting set of particulars.

In terms of ‘general welfare’ those authorities are strictly reserved to those items that follow that general statement of Article 1, Section 8. And would include things like regulating and printing currency, maintaining the Post Office and Post Roads, Trademarks and Patent administration and those other items listed in that section that do not deal with the general power of ‘common defense’.

That is the problem with too many of those who try to ‘interpret’ the consitution, they take a small section and try to make it stand on its own, when that is not and was never the intention.

TKSnider on September 25, 2009 at 9:12 PM

A Warning From Tomorrow

Lo, the pungent stench of scorching tar wafts through the air…..

Musty feathers float on the breeze amidst boisterous voices…..

Returning to their rightful place by virtue of the strength they’ve rediscovered……

Retrieving and reclaiming their nation from the claws of the insolent Marxists…….

The Citizen has risen to the occasion…..

Torches divest the evening’s darkness of its ability to hide the guilty……

The clank of pitchfork, hoe, and machete…..

The occasional begging terror-ridden wail before the gunshot….

The screeches of the cornered “Progressive Elite” fall on deaf ears of the ones they’ve offended……

Ragged moans for mercy fill the distance as another who had forgotten his place is terminally reminded of his obligations to his Constitutional Master…..


The Citizen……

R/A

rabidamerican on September 25, 2009 at 9:27 PM

So ObamaCare is all about choices!
Buy health insurance OR pay a $1900 fine OR pay $25,000 OR go to jail and get free health care.

mmmm mmmm mmmm
Barack Insane ObamAyres

starboardhelm on September 25, 2009 at 9:27 PM

It’s UNCONSTITUTIONAL to force a citizen to buy ANY commercial product!

Where in Sam hell does the Constitution enumerate a power to force purchases?

What’s next? Forced purchases of cars? Appliances?

DERELICTION OF DUTIES!!!!!!

Git a rope………..

rabidamerican on September 25, 2009 at 9:33 PM

I’d like to thank all of you dutiful American Taxpayers in advance for paying my future room and board and for my guards etc. because I shan’t be participating.

And I shall make it impossible for them to collect the fine, even if I have to give everything away. Nor shall I make it easy for them to arrest me. Maybe you good citizens will get off easy and only have to pay for the ammunition, rather than my incarceration.

I am tempted to end this post in a profanity laden invective directed at 0bama and his congressional communist toadies, but I’ll spare you good folks such language.

Molon Labe

LegendHasIt on September 25, 2009 at 9:39 PM

Molon Labe Indeed!!

Viper1 on September 25, 2009 at 10:02 PM

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it “Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold.”

Take a good.hard.long.look. Because this is how modern slavery presents.

If zombie liberals came to our doors with steel shackles. We would lay them low with whatever was handy…necessitating a somewhat more underhanded approach but the manure smell of slavery and the bureaucratic shackles would are be just as strong.

Speakup on September 25, 2009 at 10:09 PM

Pitchforks and torches outside the gates!

Alden Pyle on September 25, 2009 at 8:09 PM

I was just coming around to the “let’s soften the rhetoric and have a calm, rational discussion” position, but this story has me all lit up again. I’m buying another pitchfork.

Jaibones on September 25, 2009 at 10:14 PM

Million or billion,
Obamacare premiums,
Seem to grow out of thin air.
Safe pay for risky,
Celibate, frisky.
Why don’t you rubes think that’s fair?

JPlunket on September 25, 2009 at 10:48 PM

Ensign was right to ask what would happen if one didn’t pay the fine, but really one needs to take it even further is one is to ascertain the true meaning of this.

If you don’t pay the fine, they’ll send you to jail. But what happens if you don’t want to go to jail? They’ll use physical force against you. What happens if you want to defend yourself against this physical force?

Ultimately, they’ll shoot you.

Ayn Rand properly identified that the state’s coercive power is nothing less than having a gun held to your head and so we should give this its proper name: health care at the point of a gun.

Sharke on September 25, 2009 at 10:50 PM

There are big chapters in con law hornbooks about federal taxation power. As far as I know all law schools skip federal taxation in con law (apportionment of taxes etc) because the 16th Amend made it mostly moot.

However, Article I requires that a capitation tax be apportioned according to the census. From what little I could find on the internet, a capitation tax, as the name implies, is a head tax. It would seem that this healthcare fine, as a uniform rate, fits the definition of head tax and would have to be apportioned.

casel21 on September 25, 2009 at 11:17 PM

“We’re from the Government and we’re here to help….”

TN Mom on September 25, 2009 at 7:45 PM

…ourselves to your money.

SheofTwoMinds on September 25, 2009 at 11:32 PM

Okay, I’m taking stock.

I will lose my current high-deductible insurance plan because it doesn’t provide as much coverage as the government wants me to have. I have a high deductible because I really can’t afford insurance at all. The mandated plan will cost at least twice what I am paying now. If I can’t afford it, I will have to pay a fine approximately equal to my current premiums and go without coverage.

Meanwhile, the rich people whose taxes are being raised have compensated by not hiring my husband. (He’s an entertainer.) Government regulations are making it harder to obtain charitable help or buy cheaper used items. Our utility bills are going to “skyrocket” and frankly, since we already keep our thermostat at 55 degrees to save money, we really can’t turn it down any lower or our pipes will freeze.

I feel like I am being backed into a corner.

SheofTwoMinds on September 25, 2009 at 11:46 PM

About the idea you get free medical care in prison. NOT in Florida if you have any money in your inmate account we charge for every visit and every aspirin and pill you get. In Florida we ramp up our prisons as a testing ground for things we plan to eventually do to the general public.

If you think I’m lying look at the history of Florida prisons and you will see we were first to use humans for medical experiments, yes before the Nazi’s and besides the drug companies paid us and we gave some funds to inmates who took the experimental drugs or treatments.

Man Florida is on the cutting edge. Fun in the sun. Criminals and libtards welcome.

jarhead0311 on September 25, 2009 at 11:50 PM

Today, my wife of 15 years was diagnosed with cancer. Given that, my wife, nor I are we aligned with the government stealing from Paul to pay Peter. We would not wish socialised medicine on anyone. God is soveriegn and God is good.

You people in Washington don’t get it …

Do you think that …

- should Obamacare become law that I will submit? Go fly a kite.
- the UN Rights of a Child treaty become law, that I will submit? Take a hike.
- under regulation or registration of firearms, that I will submit? Hit the road.
- my homeschooled children will ever see a public school? Go fish.
- cap and trade will lead me to the promised land? Expect some severe blowback..

I really don’t give a damn what y’all pass … try and enforce it.

AZ_Redneck on September 26, 2009 at 1:19 AM

No.

It’s what we all must say. No.

No, we will not.

Send your bureaucrats, your agents, your lawyers.

We will say no.

Because you don’t say no this time, you won’t have the choice next time.

If 100 million people say NO, they have to back down. If 300 million people acquiesce, I doubt even 10 million will say no the next time, and Marxists have overcome larger rowdy mobs with the quiet acceptance of the cowed majority.

History is not learned from, simply.

Merovign on September 26, 2009 at 1:58 AM

I told you democrats and some republicans would betray you
I told you obama will throw your usgly ass in jail
I told you pelosi was the evil witch and will jail you
I told you this is turning into

Either our own survival or the politiciians

Soon you will have to choose
either you surrender to the democrats
or stand up against them with force of arms..

its comming folks
all thanks to the damned liberals and democrats

http://www.veteranoutrage.com

veteranoutrage on September 26, 2009 at 3:02 AM

In barely nine short months out of four years, with three years and three months left to go, we are already approaching a fate deciding crossroad in this ObamaNation of an administration at blinding speed. This is really and truly actually happening as we live and breathe.

We will either acquiesce to the unconstitutional demands of a President and the accompanying enabling Government that is intoxicated with power, fat with self-serving pork, and wielding nothing but quick fix agenda’s that flat ignore the long term ramifications of it all, or we will draw a line in the sand and make a stand in lieu of our elected government officials looking the other way and letting it all just happen.

When the time comes, I fervently hope that the same people whom I see and hear every day making bold statements all across the blogosphere of just how unyieldingly they will resist and just how adamantly they will dissent from following the unconstitutional and unlawful orders of this supremely Marxist current government, will make good on their bravado.

The time will come when we will all have to put up, or shut up. Personally, I believe it would be greatly beneficial to us all, collectively, if everyone made that decision, right now.

All the big talking machismo, the hand wringing, and the incessant twaddle does nothing.

Write your representatives, e-mail them, call them, bang on their front door and demand a few minutes audience with them, and respectfully make it plain and clear how you are mad as hell and you’re not going to take it. Relate to them your heart felt concerns, and your fears, and your disgust at the direction this country has turned towards.

Get Involved. Speak directly to those whom WE have already elected to represent us! But most importantly of all things you can possibly do… go and VOTE when the time comes.

And if they still rape us with unconstitutional taxation, prosecute us with unconstitutional laws, fine us, garnish our hard earned wages, levy our bank accounts, and ultimately jail us dissenters for exercising our freedom to choose for ourselves anyway… be prepared to put up, or shut up.

SilverStar830 on September 26, 2009 at 5:38 AM

Guess this answers why the One doesn’t think any one nation has the right to interfere in the affairs of other despot, tin horn dictator’s countries.

chickasaw42 on September 26, 2009 at 7:44 AM

And one day millions of folks woke up in 1935 in Germany and found out in the morning papers that they were in fact illegal.

Huh.

It would be more interesting to see the rule of law and your own politicians/countrymen working against its populace if you lived somewhere else.

Dr. ZhivBlago on September 26, 2009 at 8:15 AM

I agree it would have to be resisted, but the best course is to personally spread the word that Baucus will order you to get a different plan if yours isn’t to government standards, fine you $1900 in taxes if you don’t, and charge you with a crime if you won’t play along. And cut 5% of Medicare payments every year. Make a martyr out of him before we have to sacrifice ourselves.

Chris_Balsz on September 26, 2009 at 8:26 AM

I don’t know if anyone has touched on this already, but there’s a terrible irony here: prisoners often have better healthcare coverage than free citizens. Really. It has been ruled “unconstitutional to deny necessary medical care on the grounds that it is expensive.”

And people wonder why our prisons are so freaking expensive.

Dark-Star on September 26, 2009 at 10:15 AM

This is the stuff you find outwhen you read the bill. I downloaded it from the GPO to assure I got the real deal, then spent a week reading and ‘searching’ to find such gems.

If I can do this why cannot a Congressperson?

Also, when reviewing several other bills being put forth by this congress you will notice the trend that has been occurring for years and must end-adding amendments that have nothing to do with the topic of the bill. Further, all bills must include a real cost benefit analysis to show ts true cost of a bill.

I also,wish our representatives would represent vice repress U.S. They should go to D.C., sit in their office and wait for constituents to identify a problem.

Then determine the following: Is it a problem being experienced by a majority of their constituents and the rest of U.S. (talking with other Representatives). Determine the Constitutionality of the issue (is it actually a federal responsibility). Determine if there is a bill already in the works dealing with the problem and offer amendments that satisfy their constituents concerns.

However, if the problem is not federally mandated by the Constitution, inform the State or local political entity of the problem, if they are not already aware of it, and always keep the constituent informed of what is being done or how their constituents can correct the problem.

They should not go around D.C. creating their own solutions to problems they think exist.

MSGTAS on September 26, 2009 at 10:32 AM

AZ_Redneck on September 26, 2009 at 1:19 AM

So sorry about your news. I’ll pray for your family.

SheofTwoMinds on September 26, 2009 at 2:01 PM

Excellent news! The American voters again get what they voted/didn’t vote for. They deserve at least that much.

Exit Question: Will ACORN workers, high ranking Democrats, and/or blacks be subject to these laws? This is relevant!

DannoJyd on September 26, 2009 at 6:47 PM

Well, it appears I’ll be heading to prison…with about a million others too.

Question: Can I have my Sarah calendar in my cell?

Sapwolf on September 26, 2009 at 7:08 PM

I smell a rebellion over this one. The martyr possibilities are tremendous.

Sapwolf on September 26, 2009 at 7:09 PM

The fifthe amendment precludes the ability of the government to take the right to life or liberty away without due process of law. “nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law” Does this fine and jail breach the fith amendment since every person did not have the choice to be born but must bear the burden of health insurance on that life? When people compare this to car insurance remember it is a choice to buy a car, since suicide is unlawful in most states this makes insurance mandatory under something people have no choice over. Side note: Does that logic mean that since a person does not have a choice, their parents did and the parents are actually liable for the insurance cost?

whig33 on September 26, 2009 at 8:16 PM

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