Iran admits to secret uranium enrichment facility; Update: Built near Iranian holy city; Update: Iran working on detonators too? Update: Ahmadinejad warns Obama

posted at 8:55 am on September 25, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Iran scurried to the IAEA in order to reveal a previously-secret uranium enrichment facility after it got wind that the US and its allies had discovered it.  Iran, which has insisted that it had fully disclosed its nuclear work and research, now has to provide an explanation for their deception.  If history is any guide, they won’t have to sing and dance for long:

Iran revealed the existence of a covert uranium enrichment facility to the U.N. nuclear watchdog this week after it discovered the project’s secrecy had been breached by Western intelligence agencies, FOX News has learned.

The U.S., Britain and France will accuse Iran on Friday morning of building the facility underground in secret and charge that it has hidden the facility for years from international weapons inspectors, a senior White House official said.

At an announcement before the opening of the G-20 economic summit in Pittsburgh, President Obama, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and French President Nicolas Sarkozy will demand weapons inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency be granted immediate access to the facility.

An official told FOX News that Iran revealed the existence of the second plant in a letter sent Monday to IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei.

Seven years ago, the secret of Iran’s uranium enrichment efforts broke as the world learned the extent of the AQ Khan network.  Afterward, the world reacted by … applying half-baked sanctions and doing next to nothing.  Russia began helping Iran build bigger nuclear facilities despite Tehran’s covert nuclearization, and they openly supported the mullahcracy’s continued assertions that Iran has, er, nothing to hide.

How’s that working out today?

What will be different this time?  Except for some diplomatic embarrassment for Moscow, not much.  Barack Obama has practically built his international reputation on the basis of offering talks to Iran, so he’s not going to be inclined to shun the mullahs now.  He and the Western allies will demand IAEA inspections, which Iran will likely grant now, and that will allow them to relieve some of the diplomatic pressure that this revelation will create.

As for Russia, they still see Iran as critical to their economic health, so don’t expect much from Moscow.  Earlier this week, they sounded fatalistic about new sanctions, and some wondered if Obama hadn’t worked out some quid pro quo based on the shift on missile defense in eastern Europe.  Instead, it looks as though Obama may have shared this intel with Russia, which is probably how Iran found out about it.

Update (AP): No surprise that the secret facility is apparently located near Qom, which is ground zero for Shiite theological scholarship. If Israel hits the enrichment plant, Tehran will scream that it’s an attack on an Islamic holy city to rally the public towards religious war. Here’s another fun detail:

The second nuclear facility, on a military base near the Shia Muslim holy city of Qom, is thought to be capable of housing 3,000 centrifuges, not enough to produce nuclear fuel to power a reactor, but sufficient to manufacture bomb-making material, a U.S. diplomatic source who read the letter told CNN.

Remind me again, how many secret nuclear facilities did the 2007 NIE suspect Iran of having? Hot Air readers know the answer by now.

Update (AP): I missed this earlier — apparently, Obama acknowledged in his comments this morning that the secret site wasn’t designed for nuclear “energy.”

President Obama said “the size and configuration of this facility is inconsistent with a peaceful program” and called its construction a “direct challenge to the basic compact at the center of the nonproliferation regime. These rules are clear: All nations have the right to peaceful nuclear energy, those nations with nuclear weapons must move toward disarmament, those nations without nuclear weapons must forsake them.”

Update (AP): Another detail I missed earlier: The September deadline for Iran to respond to the west’s negotiations offer has now been quietly extended to December, notwithstanding the revelation of a new nuke facility that appears to have no peaceful purpose. Oh, and via Israel Matzav, there’s this too:

An Iranian exile group said Thursday that it has identified two previously unknown sites in and near Tehran where it says Iranian scientists are researching and trying to manufacture detonators for nuclear weapons.

The allegation, from the Paris-based Mujaheddin-e Khalq, or MEK, was designed to reinforce the exiles’ long-standing contention that the Iranian government, despite repeated denials, has an active program to develop a nuclear arsenal under the aegis of the Defense Ministry and the Revolutionary Guard Corps…

Abrishamchi said the two sites house programs designed to research and produce high-explosive detonators for atomic bombs.

The information came from “dozens of sources at different levels of the Iranian regime’s various organs” and was cross-checked with dozens more, he said in a statement.

Update (Ed): Looks like Ahmadinejad has decided to lower his profile today (via The Corner):

Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has cancelled a press conference scheduled for later Friday at United Nations headquarters in New York.

No reasons were provided to the UN secretariat, which organizes the event that Ahmadinejad is given each year when he comes to New York to attend the UN General Assembly.

The cancellation coincided with news that Iran has started a second nuclear plant for uranium enrichment. US President Barack Obama said at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania that the second plant is ‘inconsistent’ with claims it is being used to produce civilian nuclear power.

I’d say no explanation was necessary.

Update (AP): His presser might have been canceled but Time magazine was sitting down with the tiny terrorist while Obama was making the announcement. I’m sensing the the fist is still clenched.

Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad has warned his U.S. counterpart not to press Tehran on new revelations about a uranium enrichment plant. “If I were [President] Obama’s adviser, I would definitely advise him to refrain making this statement because it is definitely a mistake,” Ahmedinejad told TIME in New York on Friday. “It would definitively be a mistake.”…

But he seemed nonplussed by questions about the newly-revealed plant, which TIME informed him that Obama was revealing in Pittsburgh; Ahmadinejad’s response meandered from the defensive to the aggressive. “This does not mean we must inform Mr. Obama’s administration of every facility that we have,” he said. He warned that if Obama brings up the uranium facility, it “simply adds to the list of issues to which the United States owes the Iranian nation an apology over. Rest assured that this will be the case. We do everything transparently.” He added, “I’m not the person who should be giving this advice to Mr. Obama because principally, Mr. Obama’s mistakes work in our favor. But still, we do not want to see a president of a country like the United States of America to make blunders of the sort, to make mistakes of the sort.”

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Our smart, articulate President has been played.

hillbillyjim on September 25, 2009 at 12:51 PM

“Inconsistent?”
Wow, that’s mighty stong talk from Chairman Maobama!

james23 on September 25, 2009 at 12:52 PM

To end Muslim terrorism, it is probably first necessary to end the rhetorical terrorism perpetrated on language and logic by the Western Left

needs to start in the universities where the youth of America is brainwashed by arab apologists and anti-American leftists

runner on September 25, 2009 at 12:52 PM

Baxter Greene:
The Limmt case involves materials used for long range missiles. Iran has every right to developlong range missiles. Gyroscopes and Accelerometers were also involved in the case, which even the Senate says “are crucial technology for Iran’s development of long range missiles.”

Congressional Documents and Publications
May 6, 2009
Senate Foreign Relations Committee Hearing;
ENGAGING IRAN: OBSTACLES AND OPPORTUNITIES;
Testimony by Robert Morgenthau, District Attorney, New York County Former United States Attorney, Southern District of New York

There is nothing in the Limmt case that relates to nuclear weapons production.

Your article by Daniel Dombey is nothing but baseless accusations. I asked for evidence, not baseless accusations.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 12:52 PM

Baxter Greene on September 25, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Pshaw! Call them facts?/dave742.

OldEnglish on September 25, 2009 at 12:52 PM

Hey Professor I see you’ve been dealing with an anti-semite this morning. These leftists are all the same.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 12:44 PM

I seriously hate antisemites.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 12:53 PM

I suspect this will be the cause of a war in the Middle East, not the Israelis.

mjk on September 25, 2009 at 12:48 PM

Oh bank on it. Most of the leftists are too blinded by their anti-semitism to see that the entire region stands on the edge of a knife.

The only ones left to do the job are the Israelis because we are retrenching while the corrupt Sunni governments don’t have the offensive capability to carry it out.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM

I asked for evidence, not baseless accusations.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 12:52 PM

No, you’re doing what Holocaust deniers do, which is asking for a single smoking gun instead of looking at the totality of the evidence. I hope you never do jury duty.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM

None of this matter’s anymore. Krypton’s son has spoken…

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2009/09/superman-iv-is-not-how-to-video.html

I.M. Shatner on September 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM

I seriously hate antisemites.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 12:53 PM

For the most part, I find them amusing. I’m not entirely certain what I did to deserve so much hatred. But to watch them get seriously unhinged over little ol’ us is funny as all get out.

And the only thing I can think of I did to deserve so much acrimony is that I was born.

That said, the venomous and increasing amount of Anti-Semitism over the past few years is beginning to concern me. A lot.

mjk on September 25, 2009 at 12:57 PM

“It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate,” Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. “And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you – not financially to help him – we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

Biden in October ’08.

If it’s true that the administration had this information for at least a year, Biden is only off three months.

flmom on September 25, 2009 at 12:57 PM

The only ones left to do the job are the Israelis because we are retrenching while the corrupt Sunni governments don’t have the offensive capability to carry it out.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM

I’m not sure Israel has the weapons to do the job. The US refused to sell them the super duper bunker busters they wanted a while back. Even if they know where all the hardened underground facilities are, they might not be able to do enough damage to them to set the program back.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 12:57 PM

I asked for evidence, not baseless accusations.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 12:52 PM

oh, look , Holocaust “questioning” antisemite, is asking for evidence

runner on September 25, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Dave, think for a second.

If you feel Iran has the right to both long range missiles and the right to weapons grade uranium, then why don’t you just be honest and say they have a right to nuclear weapons?

Chuck Schick on September 25, 2009 at 12:58 PM

Baxter Greene:
I read the rest of your informaion. All baseless accusations (and a misstatement). Your best evidence was from quoting a Communist group. Why are you quoting communists, anyway? You’re useless. Your stance is that if you read enough baseless accusations, that’s enough evidence to bomb another country. That;s insane.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 12:59 PM

“I’m not the person who should be giving this advice to Mr. Obama because principally, Mr. Obama’s mistakes work in our favor. But still, we do not want to see a president of a country like the United States of America to make blunders of the sort, to make mistakes of the sort.”

Is that like the MISTAKE America made electing this boob to the Presidency????

SDarchitect on September 25, 2009 at 12:59 PM

That said, the venomous and increasing amount of Anti-Semitism over the past few years is beginning to concern me. A lot.

mjk on September 25, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Yeah, in isolation they can be amusing, sort of like odd things in a display case. But in mobs their venom is loathesome. And the mobs are getting bigger, louder, and more powerful and influential.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Chuck Schick:

If you feel Iran has the right to both long range missiles and the right to weapons grade uranium, then why don’t you just be honest and say they have a right to nuclear weapons?

Your position is that if a country wants to build nuclear power plants, then they cannot build long range missiles? This is nonsensical.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Seems like A-jad is trying to put his nukes all over the place so Israel could never get them all. Venezuela is quite a ways away from Israel.

I do wonder, though. If Obummer would insist the Iraqis shoot down Israelis en route to bomb Iran, would Saudi Arabia and Jordan be agreeable to let them go that route? This has to be scaring the heck out of them too. I thought I remembered hearing that Jordan is looking for nukes now too, if Iran’s got them.

How can Obummer not see that the quickest way to ensure nuclear annihilation of the planet is to give the crazies nukes? Good heavens. The same people who want to check every boo a person’s ever said before they can get a gun permit would allow the loosest cannons on the planet to get into a “my nuke’s bigger than yours” fight.

Nobody can be this stupid.

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:02 PM

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Maybe not, but they have the ability to destroy the overt nuclear program completely, fatally cripple the Iranian economy, erode the command and control the Pasdaran exercises on the nation, and cause enough of a ruckus that the entire planet will grind to a halt and focus on the issue.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 1:02 PM

I know. I just thought it might be interesting if he would tell us what would constitute a fact. I suspect he’s waiting for a mushroom cloud.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 12:50 PM

He can’t tell you what would constitute a “fact” because that would give away the game. It’s like that old saying “It’s turtles all the way down”, only with the Left “It’s red herrings all the way down”.

venividivici on September 25, 2009 at 1:02 PM

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 12:59 PM

You haven’t addressed my earlier questions about why they built a secret facility on a military base that, according to intelligence reports, can produce enough weapons grade uranium for weapons but not to fuel a power plant.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:04 PM

This is a tip off that is trying to subvert an attack from Israel. Our government is working with Iran to avoid an attack. May god help us all.

tomas on September 25, 2009 at 9:29 AM

I wouldn’t be a bit surprised.

james23 on September 25, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Maybe not, but they have the ability to destroy the overt nuclear program completely, fatally cripple the Iranian economy, erode the command and control the Pasdaran exercises on the nation, and cause enough of a ruckus that the entire planet will grind to a halt and focus on the issue.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 1:02 PM

Maybe I’m just feeling unduly pessimistic today, but unless a miracle were to happen – like the Arab countries openly lauding Israel’s action – Obama’s first move I think would be to condemn them and it would get worse from there. I really hope I’m wrong.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:06 PM

with the Left “It’s red herrings all the way down”.

venividivici on September 25, 2009 at 1:02 PM

LOL! Excellent. That’s really great, I’ll have to remember it.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:08 PM

You haven’t addressed my earlier questions about why they built a secret facility on a military base that, according to intelligence reports, can produce enough weapons grade uranium for weapons but not to fuel a power plant.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:04 PM

The talking points have not been drawn up to dismiss that yet.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 1:08 PM

Your position is that if a country wants to build nuclear power plants, then they cannot build long range missiles? This is nonsensical.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Your position is that there’s nothing suspicious about an undisclosed enrichment plant on a military base that can’t fuel a nuclear power plant?

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:09 PM

dave742, who would you say should NOT be allowed by other nations to have nuclear weapons capabilities? And how would you keep them from just lying about it until it’s too late? What would you say about a leader which is repeatedly found to by lying, claiming all innocence when it is clearly shown that there is no innocent purpose for what they’re doing – and then threatens those who dare to mention that he’s lied to them?

Oh – and while you’re at it, how would you prevent domestic abuse and what would you allow a beaten wife to do in self-defense? Or does she always have to believe that everything is her fault and if she was just good enough herself then her man would be Prince Charming? Does she have to be put in a coma before someone can suggest that maybe burning the stew was not justification for him to beat her senseless? “But if she hadn’t burned the stew…” you say?

The reason I ask is because every one of your excuses can be – and is – used to also punish a woman for finally leaving her abusive husband. What you seem to be espousing is actually the symptom of a mental disorder.

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:10 PM

Your position is that if a country wants to build nuclear power plants, then they cannot build long range missiles? This is nonsensical.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:01 PM

I’m old-fashioned enough to think if a country declares itself hostile to the United States, we should frustrate – as nonviolently as possible, but in any case, effectively– its every attempt to improve any technology or industry that could be employed against our interests. And if the international community don’t like it, so much the worse for the international community.

Chris_Balsz on September 25, 2009 at 1:12 PM

I don’t know, Professor Maio. Might the other Arab countries laud an Israeli attack? I thought I read that Saudi Arabia is giving Israel the go-ahead.

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:13 PM

Your stance is that if you read enough baseless accusations, that’s enough evidence to bomb another country.

if dave742 was really serious about evidence he would challenge these guys for information, but he obviously is not

runner on September 25, 2009 at 1:13 PM

Question: When Iran completes their first nuke, will they test it or use it?

OldEnglish on September 25, 2009 at 1:14 PM

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:06 PM

You should be pessimistic. This is an ugly situation for the entire planet. I have no doubt that Obama will go after Israel on this but I’m sure they’ve taken that into account and we can make our voices heard too. In fact, I’m sure Obama hasn’t gamed this situation through to its logical conclusions (politically speaking). He should be crapping his shorts at this point because the outbreak of hostilities will collapse his domestic agenda completely.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 1:15 PM

Your position is that if a country wants to build nuclear power plants, then they cannot build long range missiles? This is nonsensical.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Oh, did you not read the thread topic?

The Iranians just admitted to a secret site that is consistent with weapons production. Even Obama is saying such.

Did the Zionists get to Obama too?

Chuck Schick on September 25, 2009 at 1:17 PM

ProfessorMiso:

You haven’t addressed my earlier questions about why they built a secret facility on a military base that, according to intelligence reports, can produce enough weapons grade uranium for weapons but not to fuel a power plant.

They built it on a military site because Usrael threatens to attack their facilities daily.

You say that the facility will contain 3,000 centrifuges, which “can produce enough weapons grade uranium for weapons but not to fuel a power plant.” The source for this is not “intelligence reports,” but “a U.S. diplomatic source” (according to the linked CNN article). So some anonymous guy says that he knows that only 3,000 centrifuges can fit in this new facility, and that means they are making nuclear bombs. Do you really believe that? Are you serious? This building was a “secret” until late last night, but now they have figured out exactly how many centrifuges can fit into it, and that it is not enough, and that means they are making bombs. Jesus Christ.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:18 PM

Baxter Greene:
I read the rest of your informaion. All baseless accusations (and a misstatement). Your best evidence was from quoting a Communist group. Why are you quoting communists, anyway? You’re useless. Your stance is that if you read enough baseless accusations, that’s enough evidence to bomb another country. That;s insane.
dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 12:59 PM

How fu##ing pathetic.

I post fact after fact after fact from sources all over the world and you come back with “all your information is baseless accusations”…
WITHOUT ANYTHING TO BACK IT UP!

Hey genius…that makes your response to me the only “baseless accusation”

You have not answered any questions put forth to you regarding your ignorant moral equivalence nor have you been able to back up any of your rhetoric.

Take your laughable amateur a$$ back to huffpo where it belongs.

We deal with real world issues,real facts,and common sense here.
You are out of your element.

Bogus conspiracy theorist,fact-less accusations, and terrorist apologist are only taken seriously at huffpo and Kos.

What a joke.

Baxter Greene on September 25, 2009 at 1:21 PM

I don’t know, Professor Maio. Might the other Arab countries laud an Israeli attack? I thought I read that Saudi Arabia is giving Israel the go-ahead.

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:13 PM

The best case scenario is probably silence, as happened last year when Israel took out the reactor in Syria.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:24 PM

justincase:

who would you say should NOT be allowed by other nations to have nuclear weapons capabilities?

Personally, I think that no nation should have nukes. Either all nations should have nuclear weapons, or none should. I would rather that none had them. As far as the law is concerned, all nations that have signed the NPT should not have them, including nuclear states such as the US, because nuclear states promised to disarm, and they have not done so, in violation of the NPT.

And how would you keep them from just lying about it until it’s too late?

I would construct an organization that monitors NPT signatory states to monitor nuclear material. Wait! They have already done that. It is called the IAEA.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:26 PM

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:18 PM

The intelligence on this is over a year old. Are you calling Obama a liar now too troll? (Obama usually lies but is he lying now)? What about Sarkozy and Gordon Brown, are they lying too? I suggest you give it up and take your anti Semitism to a leftist website where it belongs.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 1:27 PM

I would construct an organization that monitors NPT signatory states to monitor nuclear material. Wait! They have already done that. It is called the IAEA.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:26 PM

Which Iran is willfully deceiving, you ignorant fool.

Obama, Brown and Sarkozy must be part of the Zionist conspiracy as well!

Chuck Schick on September 25, 2009 at 1:28 PM

They built it on a military site because Usrael threatens to attack their facilities daily.

How would you know? This building was a “secret” until late last night, but now you have figured out exactly why they built it there?

Chris_Balsz on September 25, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Baxter Greene:
I am a scientist, and I deal with real information. The only piece of information that you supplied that contained anything whatsoever turned out to be a baseless accusation originating from a communist group in Stockholm. Your article about the Chinese sanctions case contained something, but turned out to be irrelevant. Your other articles contain nothing. Citing an article where the author says “Iran is developing nukes!” is not evidence. If it is, then here is my evidence:

Everyone on my block says that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons!

There, we are even.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:31 PM

dave742: Being the old news guy that I am, I did a little research. I went to a sight called Jihad Watch, the topic was India: 1,000 Muslims shouted, “set the train on fire and kill the Hindus” dated September 27, 2008. It gave me a little insight into your belief structure. I now understand your postings a little better.

kingsjester on September 25, 2009 at 1:32 PM

Q.–Why does dave742 hate people?

A.–He must be up for consideration for one of those “czar” positions?

That sounds about right.

hillbillyjim on September 25, 2009 at 1:32 PM

I would construct an organization that monitors NPT signatory states to monitor nuclear material. Wait! They have already done that. It is called the IAEA.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Which Iran is willfully deceiving, you ignorant fool.

Yes Dave, what’s the penalty for deceiving this monitor organization? They get the form mailed back with the lies snarkily circled in highlighter?

Chris_Balsz on September 25, 2009 at 1:33 PM

They built it on a military site because Usrael threatens to attack their facilities daily.

I’d like to think you’re just gullible, but my faith in human nature doesn’t run that deep.

So you are saying that Iran built Natantz out in the open, and brought in IAEA inspectors etc etc etc, but then built the Qom site on a military site to protect it from the Israelis? I guess there’s a sucker born every minute.

You say that the facility will contain 3,000 centrifuges, which “can produce enough weapons grade uranium for weapons but not to fuel a power plant.” The source for this is not “intelligence reports,” but “a U.S. diplomatic source” (according to the linked CNN article). So some anonymous guy says that he knows that only 3,000 centrifuges can fit in this new facility, and that means they are making nuclear bombs.

And he couldn’t possibly have got the information from intelligence reports because it’s so obvious from Obama’s every action and word that his administration has it in for Iran. /sarc

Do you really believe that? Are you serious? This building was a “secret” until late last night

No it wasn’t. Multiple sources are reporting that this information has been in US hands for a year or more.

but now they have figured out exactly how many centrifuges can fit into it, and that it is not enough, and that means they are making bombs. Jesus Christ.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:18 PM

I’d say the odds are that if intelligence agents know of its existence, the odds are they know a lot more than that about it.

Israel took out a nuclear reactor in Syria last year that was “secret” until after the operation. That doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a reactor.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:33 PM

elduende:

The intelligence on this is over a year old.

Well, I guess it wasn’t a very good “secret,” was it.

Explain to me how you can look at a building from a satellite and determine how many centrifuges can fit into it. Do you take the area of a centrifuge and multiply it by 3,000? What if there are two floors? You guys have me splitting my sides laughing.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:35 PM

You should be pessimistic. This is an ugly situation for the entire planet. I have no doubt that Obama will go after Israel on this but I’m sure they’ve taken that into account and we can make our voices heard too. In fact, I’m sure Obama hasn’t gamed this situation through to its logical conclusions (politically speaking). He should be crapping his shorts at this point because the outbreak of hostilities will collapse his domestic agenda completely.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 1:15 PM

But instead he’s sending them nice videos, extending deadlines, and pushing on the health care reform (gotta get it through before war breaks out, I guess).

Definitely the wrong man at the helm.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 1:35 PM

There, we are even.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Unless Nicholas Sarkozy is one of your neighbors you aren’t even playing the same sport as Baxter, let alone in the same ballpark.

Chuck Schick on September 25, 2009 at 1:37 PM

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:35 PM

The same way you find WMDs in Iraq silly.

Sorry guys couldn’t resist. I’ll be on my way I promise.

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Explain to me how you can look at a building from a satellite and determine how many centrifuges can fit into it. Do you take the area of a centrifuge and multiply it by 3,000? What if there are two floors? You guys have me splitting my sides laughing.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Iran admitted it was a covert enrichment plant.

Did you miss that part?

Chuck Schick on September 25, 2009 at 1:42 PM

Explain to me how you can look at a building from a satellite and determine how many centrifuges can fit into it. Do you take the area of a centrifuge and multiply it by 3,000? What if there are two floors? You guys have me splitting my sides laughing.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Are you seriously taking the position that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is only interested in peace? Really?

Have you even stopped to think why in hell you are trying to defend this piece of human excrement?

If you have, shame on you.

If you haven’t, dude, use your head for something besides a hat-rack.

hillbillyjim on September 25, 2009 at 1:43 PM

We’ll send radical Islam’s bomb back to the dark ages where it belongs.. But it is going to get messy with Lebanon & Gaza.

hey, also someone apologized to Israel on behalf of Americans before. That is very sweet but uncalled for! Americans were very supportive in Gaza this January, Israelis know they can rely on allies (conservative & Christian Americans) going forward when it gets messy again. The Israeli public is no go with Obama, not America.

Bibi Netanyahu landed back in Israel 3 hours ago, everyone here is talking about his moving speech, everyone is talking about very warm American support for the PM seen through media, which uplifted spirits in Israel : )

saus on September 25, 2009 at 1:43 PM

Explain to me how you can look at a building from a satellite and determine how many centrifuges can fit into it.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Israel may that out very soon.

yoda on September 25, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Israel may find that out very soon.

yoda on September 25, 2009 at 1:45 PM

yoda on September 25, 2009 at 1:47 PM

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Ok so everyone, including the Iranians, are now lying. LOL! you are a pathetic anti semitic troll.

elduende on September 25, 2009 at 1:48 PM

The allegation, from the Paris-based Mujaheddin-e Khalq, or MEK

I guess allegations from a group responsible for taking American hostages and killing American citizens is cerrtainly credible on this site. Next time Al Qaeda makes an allegation, I am sure you’ll believe that one, too.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:48 PM

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Being a scientist means gathering all facts on the subject & noting a trend.
The trend here is: Iran lies about everything it does.
They support terrorism in many various ways. They support the death of Israeli & American & allied soldiers abroad through their activities.
They have been howling for years how they want to bring us all down.
I don’t care if they have enough centrifuges the actually make a bomb.
They shouldn’t be let NEAR any kind of technology that can be used offensively.
Read the writing on the wall:
Iran is openly hostile to us all-especially Israel.
The Iranian ‘govt’ is insane.
They follow a violent ‘religion’ that calls for the death or submission of ALL who turn from Islam.
This is more than enough for me.
If you need more proof of their intentions, I suggest you go on a fact gathering mission to Iran.
Tell us what you find out.

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:48 PM

The same way you find WMDs in Iraq silly.

Sorry guys couldn’t resist. I’ll be on my way I promise.

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Ah hee hee. All nations agreed that Iraq was pursuing nuclear weapons/biological weapons technology. Their quarrel was whether Iraq should have been given more time for inspections and whether it was worth going to war over. Get a clue dipshit.

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 1:49 PM

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:26 PM

Do you likewise believe that if anybody has a gun everybody should have a gun? Why or why not?

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:49 PM

I guess allegations from a group responsible for taking American hostages and killing American citizens is cerrtainly credible on this site. Next time Al Qaeda makes an allegation, I am sure you’ll believe that one, too.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:48 PM

How many different ways can you twist yourself into a pretzel?

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 1:50 PM

I guess allegations from a group responsible for taking American hostages and killing American citizens is cerrtainly credible on this site. Next time Al Qaeda makes an allegation, I am sure you’ll believe that one, too.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:48 PM

The Iranians admitted to a covert uranium site.

We all know how credible they are to you.

Chuck Schick on September 25, 2009 at 1:50 PM

Explain to me how you can look at a building from a satellite and determine how many centrifuges can fit into it.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Are you an intelligence expert? Do you have the exact information at their disposal?
Just what sort of scientific background do you have that makes you a mind reader here?

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:50 PM

BTW-the ‘good’ guys: nations that help out their allies & others in need who give territory BACK after ‘helping’ out.
Some people call the helping out an occupation.
But we always give stuff back.
Good guys are the ones who should have nukes.
Compared to other nations, we have showed our true intentions: we are trying to be peacemakers.
Hint: it’s not working.
So next: slap the crap out of these a$$hole$ & take their destructive toys away.

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:53 PM

justincase:

Do you likewise believe that if anybody has a gun everybody should have a gun? Why or why not?

If one person is allowed to have a gun, I think all people should be allowed to have a gun; but not required to have one, of course.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:48 PM

And their own belief system – whose adherents are blowing themselves up because they’re so serious about it – says they need to start a world war so that their “12th Imam” will come and end the world.

Just who I want to have nukes. Someone commented on the detonators they’re talking about being for VERY LARGE nukes. If this is so, the picture isn’t pretty.

I’m ready for the end at any time. But anybody who thinks it’s OK for Iran to have the bomb needs to know that it is planetary suicide.

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:54 PM

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Even convicted criminals?

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:55 PM

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 1:49 PM

And boy were they vindicated! We’re up to our ears in Iraqi WMDs now.

Wait no that’s Syria or Iran or whoever else they “moved their weapons to.”

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 1:55 PM

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Even convicted criminals?

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Well of course, what if the criminal gets robbed or burglarized?

/sarc

MobileVideoEngineer on September 25, 2009 at 1:56 PM

So next: slap the crap out of these a$$hole$ & take their destructive toys away.

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:53 PM

HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!! Dave doesn’t believe in spanking.

/sarc

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 1:56 PM

If one person is allowed to have a gun, I think all people should be allowed to have a gun; but not required to have one, of course.

dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Criminals, mental cases, nutjobs, wackos, etc?
Honestly, you are one frightening individual.
Luckily, I am + I am a better shot than you.

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:58 PM

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 1:56 PM

I believe in corporal punishment of the truly wicked.
There are some people who only learn by being spanked!

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM

And boy were they vindicated! We’re up to our ears in Iraqi WMDs now.

Wait no that’s Syria or Iran or whoever else they “moved their weapons to.”

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 1:55 PM

And yet you accuse the Bush administration of lying us into war. THE F*CKING UN believed it also. I don’t have a quarrel with someone who is against the war, but I do have a quarrel with someone who believes that bullshit. Again, get a clue dipshit. Maybe you need to read some history before 2001.

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM

I am a scientist,
dave742 on September 25, 2009 at 1:31 PM

I am a scientist….blah…blah….blah…balh.

So tell us Mr. scientist.

When you put forth a discovery,solution,or refute someone else’s findings, does your report simply say.

Because I said so.

Because that is all you have offered in refuting the:

NY Times, Washington post,Democtatic senators,Republican senators, Intelligence agencies of the US,Germany,France,Israel,the UN,Der Speigel,Ali Khamenei ,
Hashemi Rafsanjani, president of Iran,Wall Street Journal,President Obama,CIA head Leon Panetta,Weekly Standard,Freedomhouse,Mossaud,Times of London,LA Times,International Institute for strategic studies……to name just a few.

In the rabbit hole you have apparently fallen in “because I said so” may work,

In the real world you have to refute positions,arguments,intelligence reports,and evidence with FACTS.

Good luck with your “scientist” career apparently acquired by graduating from the University of Dumbsh!t.

What a joke.

Baxter Greene on September 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Ditto-except for the end part.
I’d like to remain here just a little longer if I may.

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM

And boy were they vindicated! We’re up to our ears in Iraqi WMDs now.

Wait no that’s Syria or Iran or whoever else they “moved their weapons to.”

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Unfortunately the same people who said Iraq had a weapons program now says Iran does not.

Chuck Schick on September 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM

MobileVideo Engineer at 1:56

Maybe another question to ask him/her would be if convicted criminals should suffer any penalty for what they’ve done.

Like, for instance, a ruler who has young boys repeatedly tortured and raped because they were at a rally supporting somebody else to be the leader. Should such a person have any limits on what they are allowed by the rest of the world to have access and authority to do?

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM

And boy were they vindicated! We’re up to our ears in Iraqi WMDs now.

Wait no that’s Syria or Iran or whoever else they “moved their weapons to.”

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Ah, red herrings all the way down. We’re talking about Iran.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 2:01 PM

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM

Yeah the majority of the planet used to think the world was flat. At least most of us have changed our minds when evidence to the contrary is discovered. Perhaps you should do the same?

Besides just poking fun, not trying to hijack the thread.

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 2:03 PM

Ah, red herrings all the way down. We’re talking about Iran.

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 2:01 PM

Yep. Doesn’t matter that Saddam even continued to claim to have weapons to deter Iran. Damn, those facts just get in the way for the “Bush Lied, People Died” crowd.

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 2:03 PM

Yeah the majority of the planet used to think the world was flat.

You can’t be serious with that argument.

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 2:04 PM

ProfessorMiao on September 25, 2009 at 2:01 PM

Eh it was a reference to a comment I made earlier in jest.

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 2:04 PM

And boy were they vindicated! We’re up to our ears in Iraqi WMDs now.

Wait no that’s Syria or Iran or whoever else they “moved their weapons to.”

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Hey, dumba**, my friends in Israel (one who is in Shin Bet) says that WMD material was moved into Syria before the war. It’s pretty much common knowledge.

And apparently, you don’t have a problem with Hussein gassing the Kurds, his sons raping women and torturing soccer players. With them killing dissidents and Christians.

Which really speaks more to YOUR character than anything else.

mjk on September 25, 2009 at 2:05 PM

mjk on September 25, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Group think =/= Common knowledge

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Perhaps you should do the same?

Actually, I have. I wish we had never invaded Iraq, but that doesn’t mean I believed that we were lied to by the UN, France, Germany, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and even Russia. Get real. Make that argument on this website about a serious issue like that, and expect to be smacked down.

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM

I was engaged during Desert Storm. I was so afraid the end would come before our wedding night. lol.

Now I can take it either way, but my kids would like to have a chance to try out their wings, and I’d like the chance to see them do it. I wouldn’t give a rip about this political stuff if it didn’t mean my kids’ futures are being pulled right out from underneath them.

I believe the world’s gonna end sometime, and all the attempts to stop it will be ineffective. If we aren’t able to stop this now it must be because the end is near. But we don’t know that if we don’t try to stop it. I just want people who think it’s a game to realize that it’s not.

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Scientific reason to be suspicious about the innocuousness of Iran’s nuclear programme: the heavy water facility at Arak.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4617398.stm

Anyone up to speed on the type of reactors built/used by Iran so far?

Grunchy Cranola on September 25, 2009 at 2:09 PM

Watch out Iran if you ignore the Won’s stern warning you will get a strongly worded letter.

jpmn on September 25, 2009 at 2:12 PM

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 2:07 PM

“It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong.”

-President George W. Bush

“We cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war. Reports of such actions exist, but we have not yet been able to investigate this possibility thoroughly.”

-C.I.A. Iraq Survey Group

I’m not trying to troll and I’m not trying to be rude. I can’t quote much plainer than these people.

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 2:12 PM

I must have taken dave’s argument and I was being sarcastic so he’s trying to think of something else to say to not sound stupid…

Hint to dave: It’s too late. I would also tell you to stop while you’re ahead, but you’re not ahead at all.

MobileVideoEngineer on September 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 2:07 PM

There’s times when I vacillate btw pessimism & optimism in these times.
But I am certain that if the $hit hits the fan, like nuclear, that won’t be the end for people, just a bunch of people.
I am optimistic that there are enough folks with their fingers near the defensive trigger who would do the right thing no matter what Obama says.

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM

MobileVideoEngineer on September 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM

Maybe he’s taking my advice & embraking on a fact-finding mission to Iran before he continues to spew anymore.

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 2:15 PM

“It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong.”

-President George W. Bush

“We cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war. Reports of such actions exist, but we have not yet been able to investigate this possibility thoroughly.”

-C.I.A. Iraq Survey Group

I’m not trying to troll and I’m not trying to be rude. I can’t quote much plainer than these people.

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is the implication that we were somehow lied into war. People can’t separate their animus toward the war and its aftermath from the “Bush lied” meme? Come on people.

NathanG on September 25, 2009 at 2:16 PM

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Basically they’re agreeing that unless we go dig up a bunch of concrete in Syria we’re never gonna prove anything. We haven’t even dug up the concrete in Iraq in the places we were told Saddam buried stuff.

We’ve found Saddam’s documents saying they were going to hide the chemical WMD’s by keeping them in precursor form which could be called fertilizer but could be mixed within minutes to form deadly weapons. And we’ve found the precursors just as he said – but just as Saddam had planned, the “see-no-evil” folks at the IAEA and the “screw America” crowd called it fertilizer. No threat at all.

What we all learned is that there is no way to convince the blind of what they refuse to see. So why waste the time trying? The quotes mentioned basically say “We don’t know and we’re not going to find out.”

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 2:17 PM

To quote everyone’s least favorite RINO:

Bomb-Bomb-Bomb Bomb-Bomb-Iran

Scrappy on September 25, 2009 at 2:18 PM

The Calibur on September 25, 2009 at 2:12 PM

What does that have to do with Iran and its admissions of having nuclear facilities, enrichment capabilities and wanting to wipe the Zionist entity off the map ? Nothing.

runner on September 25, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Badger40 on September 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM

My kids are hoping that if we get nuked our family will be in the immediate fireball so we all get vaporized at the same time. Not highly likely unless they bomb SAC in Omaha, and even then not highly likely. So I’ve got the bottles of iodine just in case.

I do hope it doesn’t come to that. When we had the mutually-assured destruction with Russia things were a lot safer than now, when we’re dealing with people who consider mutual destruction a highly-sought-after prize.

justincase on September 25, 2009 at 2:22 PM

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