Comments on: ReasonTV: The government interference in medical pain management

By: Blacksmith8

Blacksmith8 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:05:09 +0000

BTW, I thought the Won’s answer to every ailment was a pain pill? If we can’t even get that what’s the point of Obamacare?

drflykilla on September 22, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Control.
Why did he say this? Control.
Why is he doing that? Control.
This has only and always been about CONTROL! Control of you, me, everything, and everyone.
But then you knew that didn’t you?

By: margategop517

margategop517 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:56:24 +0000

Thanks RD! I will call my former employer to see if I am eligible. I also had several rounds of the nerve blocks but I still have the pain. My pain comes mostly from the radical pancreatectomy, as they had to remove 1/4 of it due to a congenital strictured bile duct. Recently, my pain mgmt doctor told me I have degenerative disc disease but he still has me on the same level of pain meds and wants to reduce the dosage. I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond.

To all my fellow HA posters that also live in chronic pain, I will keep you all in my prayers. It is the least I can do for all the laughs I get reading your posts, especially to the trolls!

By: margategop517

margategop517 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:36:40 +0000

RD,

Thanks so much for the response. I will call my former employer for the COBRA info to see if I am eligible. My job loss is tied to a civil service/union (THE WORST! My union dues would have been better spent a few miles away from me at the AC casinos, which oddly enough I never visit) appeal so getting anything done with them is like banging my head against the wall, like everything else here in NJ.

As for the nerve injections, I have had several rounds but it never took away all the pain. A lot of the pain comes from my pancreas as it was a radical pancreatectomy from a congenital defect, a structured bile duct, so I have 3/4ths of a pancreas. Plus, they just diagnosed degenerative disc disease and a mild dose of Darvocet doesn’t take it away. I used to be a runner, work 80 hours a week and have a fun life. But now I’m 11 years older, unemployed and in constant pain-but I thank God I am alive! At least I get a lot of laughs from all the comments I read here at Hot Air!

Thanks again for thinking of me.

PS-I am so sorry to hear so many of my fellow Hot Air posters are in so much pain. I’ll keep you all and your families in my prayers. I know what it’s like under the stigma of chronic pain, not to mention what it’s like to live life in constant pain.

By: Bill Blizzard

Bill Blizzard — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 01:42:55 +0000

libertytexan on September 22, 2009 at 5:39 PM

He never gets tired of his clueless opinion of MJ.
And more then likely the troubles were caused by his upbringing. It’s been pointed out by tokers and non-tokers here. And what’s really funny is that the self confessed tokers here make way more sense then the author you are replying to.

By: RD

RD — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:26:39 +0000

Also: THC by itself (in a pill or otherwise) makes most patients edgy and uncomfortable, if not worse…

A correction: This should read “delta-9 THC by itself”, as the comment applies only to the specific isomer of THC used in the pill — only one of many. This is also the reason I put “THC pill” in quotes. The point is, the substance in the pill not even “THC” as it’s largely understood; it’s only one isomer of the compound that is found nowhere in nature in 100% concentrations.

And it is not the only psychoactive isomer of THC by a long shot — which is where the early science that led to this medical malpractice-in-a-pill got it wrong.

By: RD

RD — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:02:38 +0000

I have a different view of THC on the formulary as a prescription pill; abuse is well nigh impossible. But since these people want their tokes as smokes and claim that the pill form isn’t good enough, no sympathy from me — we had to deal with our son for almost five years as a pothead, and it almost destroyed my family.

unclesmrgol on September 22, 2009 at 10:01 AM

The “pill form” of what?

As a pain medication, pure THC is not only “not good enough”, it is reportedly next to useless.

The pain-killing compounds that help people using medical marijuana are reported to be CBD, another ingredient entirely. Interestingly, CBD supposedly does not even get you “high”. (I don’t know what it does in that regard — maybe somebody in gov’t or pharma should be looking into it?) And I doubt if it has ever “contributed” to anyone’s schizophrenia, assuming marijuana even has that effect. (THC is much more alarming in this regard, and I’m not willing to rule out its exacerbating effects, though I’m not convinced of them either at this point.)

So: If you want to get on a high horse about insisting on pills that no one can “abuse”, at least get the medications straight.

Also: THC by itself (in a pill or otherwise) makes most patients edgy and uncomfortable, if not worse, and I wouldn’t consider it a very sensible or humane form of treatment, for any condition. The science behind the THC pill is less than sound to say the least. AFAIK nobody but the U.S. Federal government and very, very few others ever believed that a “THC pill” was a reputable form of treatment for any condition, except bureaucratic butt-covering. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the gov’t itself thought it to be bogus.

Seems its best use is as a foil, for government to be able to say, “look, we made THC available, what else do you want?”, having learned over the intervening years just how inadequate this “medicine” actually is.

By: libertytexan

libertytexan — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:39:43 +0000

Having nearly lost my son to marijuana (he’s one of those who went schizoid), I don’t have a lot of tolerance for anyone growing or smoking marijuana, even as a supposed “pain medicine”; here in California, the “medical marijuana” people are constantly being arrested for selling to the general public.

I have a different view of THC on the formulary as a prescription pill; abuse is well nigh impossible. But since these people want their tokes as smokes and claim that the pill form isn’t good enough, no sympathy from me — we had to deal with our son for almost five years as a pothead, and it almost destroyed my family.

unclesmrgol on September 22, 2009 at 10:01 AM

This is a tragic situation but it does not give you the moral authority to dictate to others what they can and cannot do with their own lives. The death of a child in a school shooting is tragic but it does not mean that all guns should be banned. The daughter of an abusive alcoholic father does not have the authority to ban all alcohol. All drugs, legal or illegal, have different effects on different people and some people are simply incapable of responsibly handling them responsibly. It is simply not the governments business.

Was it the war on drugs that eventually saved your son? No, I’m guessing it was you and your families love and determination to help him that did and that is how it should be.

By: RD

RD — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:03:27 +0000

jeanie on September 22, 2009 at 4:28 PM

By: RD

RD — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:02:35 +0000

margategop517 – I’m glad you posted & you have at least two problems to juggle right how. One is working around the unnecessary infringments on your right to kill the pain you are dealing with, and the other is the price of & 18-month cap on COBRA. (Funny isn’t it – if you’re Medicare-disabled they give you 36 months on COBRA but only 18 months if you decide to reject that designation.)

On the 2nd issue – since Obama passed the emergency measure cutting the price of COBRA (to $275 a month? don’t remember) you should be paying less than you were — is the insurer still billing you the original amount? I know someone who got their money back (difference between old & new price, retroactive to the month this law went into effect). If you’re eligible I would demand that money back right away.

On the 1st issue – despite the best efforts to obfuscate the issue, I don’t believe the research has ever been challenged that shows heroin *is* less physically addictive than morphine; the problem comes when it is abused. FWIW you should be able to go down to the local pharmacy and get exactly what you need, from Advil to injected morphine, including an injection kit if needed. Another problem is the industry steering people into pills as the only option, as if that is somehow “safer” or “better”, when that can often compound the dependency problem given that dosages are fixed and are rarely matched ideally to your body weight. Injections are not for amateurs either but they do train Type I diabetics to administer injections, and it’s not beyond credulity to imagine we could trust responsible adults with the option to administer pain medication in the same way. You should be able to take *exactly* what you need, no more, no less.

And/or have the procedure done (like Jerry Lewis had) which deadens the nerves in that area, if that ever becomes available for your particular medical situation, so that you never have to suffer pain in that way again.

By: jeanie

jeanie — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:28:36 +0000

Many times it’s the relatives and friends of folks who have over dosed who clamor for the gov. to do something. In most cases, the persons who overdosed was to blame for the incident. People with severe pollen allergies now have to settle for less effective otc remedies because someone’s irresponsilbe kid used the ingredients of the old , more effective meds to kill him/herself. Short hop to the government using this to fulfill their expectations that we are not capable of making our own decisions. On that front, one would really, really have to work hard to be stupider than our legislators.

By: gbear

gbear — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:21:38 +0000

unclesmrgol@12:30
“The guys trying to genetically eliminate THC from hemp are on the right track — especially since the “hairs” are recessive… If they win, within a generation, marijuana won’t be problem any more.”

The meth dealers will love that.

By: margategop517

margategop517 — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:04:42 +0000

As someone who lived through a life-threatening pancreatectomy at age 34, the pain that radiates from my pacreas to my lower back from muscle, nerve, & tissue damage will be with me for the rest of my life-but I’ll take that & the other conditions from the surgery over certain death without it. I now see my pain management doctor cutting down my pain meds (instead of helping me find something that works. After 11 years of debilitating pain, I have built a tolerance for the mild dosage I have now & he tells me to find another way besides meds for pain relief, to which I have not been able. I some times am in so much pain the only temporary relief I can get is lying on my coffee table with my knees pulled up to my chest.

For 15 years I worked for the “evil” health insurance industry up close & personal with not only the clients whose accounts I managed, but their employees. For the few horror stories (including my own as my employer/health insurance provider who at first denied my surgery as “not medically necessary” due to it being rare for my age. The only “advantage” I had getting it approved was the same that is offered to every health insurance consumer, which was knowing the emergency appeals process) that I heard, there were hundreds of success stories.

Despite the pain in my back from the surgery, the only time I ever missed work because of it was after my surgery which was a year for my recovery because of the intensity of the surgery. The doctors told me I would qualify for permanent SSD, but I & all my family in the room all said “NO” in unison as I did not want that. I got laid off in December 2008 & going stir crazy from not working. Unfortunately, my wonderful state The People’s Republic of NJ so graciously offered us limited access to a vocation counselor who told us in January & again last week there are “no jobs in NJ”. I am almost halfway to a Masters (where I am using The Dangers of Socialized Medicine in America as the theme towards my thesis capstone) with 20 years professional experience & I am applying for every job including entry level clerical jobs but still nothing. I could not go back to working in the capacity of insurance industry because I physically could no longer handle the intensity that kind of job requires. Despite what people think of health insurance companies, they are for a large majority, not “greedy” or “evil”. My bosses were two of the greatest I ever had.& nearly everyone of us as employees went above & beyond for our clients & members.

I am terrified of what’s happening as if I don’t find a job soon (my husband lost his job too) we’ll lose our house & everything. What savings we did have are gone from both of us having major surgeries. I am also terrified of stories like this & what I learned from my grad school research about”Universal Healthcare”. As someone who also worked in public healthcare with Medicare/Medicaid beneficiaries for our county government & I know their list of exclusions for rx grows when the bureaucrats feel a class of medications is being “over-prescribed. Dick Morris predicted this would happen with lower back treatment. I have to pay $555/month for COBRA that only for me to have this insurance & if I lose it without finding another job, BHO’s plan eliminates individual coverage, which in NJ is horribly expensive for what you get in benefits.

We have to stop this now so that we don’t jeopardize our system for the 85% that have health insurance who want to keep it & find a solution to cover the real # of that can’t get health insurance, which I think is about 8-10 million.

By: RD

RD — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:32:03 +0000

I will have to come back to read the comments because I’m short on time, but something posted on HotAir the other day got me thinking about the subject. I think it was a post that dealt with whether or not it’s morally justified to forbid the common man/woman from unfettered access to opiates such as heroin and morphine, on the spurious grounds that the only possible use of those must be somehow illicit, abusive or recreational.

For those in chronic, debilitating pain, nothing could be further from the truth. For such people, as long as they are given/take just enough to kill the pain but no more — so they don’t get the psychoactive effects associated with abuse — they never develop the psychological addictions that [can] result from traditional abuse of drugs. And neither do they “deserve” the same scorn and derision we heap upon drug addicts, even though they are potentially administering the same substances in the same ways as are drug abusers.

And who is the Federal government to say that someone cannot be trusted to acquire such medication on their own and administer it? Does *every* conceivably dangerous action require a nanny from “Big Med” present? (If so, why don’t they all require us to have chauffeurs, or better yet, make us all ride the bus?)

Until recently the retort has been, why not get the doctor to administrer it for you (as if not wanting a doctor involved implied an ulterior or sinister motive).

NOW we learn that doctors themselves are being pressured to reduce or withhold treatment, based on no good reasons that anyone can produce, and compelled only by the sheer power of Big Government to brand medical professionals as outlaws.

That’s when I realized that our civil rights were being violated. I call this one the Right to Kill Pain.

Those of you who are arguing that you don’t want Big Government to take over medical care in this country, on the grounds that it violates our rights for the State to have control over our bodies — and you would be correct — must understand that they have *already* done so by abrogating the Right to Kill Pain. If you beg long and hard enough you may be given some pain medication but there is no longer any pretense that you’re *entitled* to kill pain. And, more and more, neither is your doctor.

We can have a civil debate as to whether or not U.S. citizens have the Right to Get High, and God knows good people can disagree on that one, but I hope that everyone can agree that the Right to Kill Pain — nerve impulses that provide slow torture for millions, tax the living and working potential of many, stress bodily organs and shorten life spans — must be preserved if not restored in this country. I see no conceivable, defensible justification for what the unnamed three-letter agencies are doing to infringe on these rights.

By: Miss_Anthrope

Miss_Anthrope — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:22:42 +0000

hoosierken,

Is that nerve running down the back of your thigh? If so, it’s your sciatic.

And I KNOW how that hurts…both of mine are messed up, but not from pinched nerves, broken bones, things like that. It’s my piriformis muscle that constricts…constantly!

At least I can lie on lacrosse balls for some relief, but not much.

I even had my peronial nerve (outside of calf) malfunction back in 2003…couldn’t flex my foot for 2 months. These are very scary issues to deal with in your 30′s!!! (Just made it to 40 this year..so all this started at 31.)

By: Miss_Anthrope

Miss_Anthrope — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:18:34 +0000

alecj,

I agree that some are quite judgmental re: presciption meds.

I suffered from a horseback riding accident 9 years ago, and have somehow managed to function w/o narcotics all but 2 months of those 9 years…but not very well. I was mainly doing so in an effort not to get my dr in “trouble”, but also b/c of the addiction/withdrawal issues. Was trying to avoid those, if possible.

I can tell you, after 2 back surgeries and the fact my back is getting worse (again), that I’m about to reconsider my efforts and just take what I should have years ago. Having trouble walking again, and deterriorating discs is hard to handle when in the lumbar region (since all you do revolves around that location).

I’ve also been off all my meds, all non-narcotics, for 4 months, in an effort to conceive, and it’s been the most painful time I’ve had since my last surgery 3 years ago. I’m surprised I lasted w/o non-narcotics for 9 years, but do go w/o any meds at all is awful…

Yes, it’s easy to get addicted. Yes, most/all do get addicted…but it’s a medical/physical addiction, not the standard psychological addiction many assume it is. And when the only relief one gets is when unconscious, well, you figure out why we choose not to suffer more than absolutely necessary. We already suffer enough with them…

By: hoosierken

hoosierken — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:08:43 +0000

My 2cents…
Yes, it is the responsibility of the patient to honestly communicate their true needs to their doctor. I’m one of the unlucky who suffer chronic pain. My family doctor would have nothing to do with me for fear of prosecution. I am fortunate that I was referred to a pain specialist that so far has no fear prescribing the drugs that are needed. But it’s not so easy. I do have to check in every 3 months and be interviewed as to my pain levels and how each drug is working. I also sign a contract that says I will follow every rule the Dr lists and if I break any I will lose the ability to obtain the pain meds from him.

In 2003 I broke my hip while bike riding and seriously damaged the nerve running down my leg. Even with the medication I take, I still wake up literally screaming from the pain at least once a week. It feels like my leg is on fire. So I am happy to abide by the Dr’s rules in the contract. I’m only 49. I am able to work full time and even be active as long as I have a dr. that is not afraid to be prosecuted.
I fear what would happen if the government controls pain management.

By: Are you in pain? Too bad « Diddly’s Weblog

Are you in pain? Too bad « Diddly’s Weblog — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:47:05 +0000

[...] http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/22/reasontv-the-government-interference-in-medical-pain-managemen… [...]

By: alecj

alecj — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:41:05 +0000

Its easy to look down your nose at someone defending the use of narcotics but spend a few weeks in chronic pain and your view point changes immediately.

Doctors should have the freedom to prescribe what they want without worrying about being jailed or investigated. Its the nanny state at its finest.

Its like the gun argument. Drugs dont kill people, people kill people. Taking away certain medicines because of a few who abuse or use it illegally is like taking away guns because a few commit crimes or do something stupid.

How can you not see the hypocrisy in defending guns but not medication?

By: 4shoes

4shoes — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:32:57 +0000

This guy was over prescribing so much to his patients that they were selling it on the street, resulting in 3 deaths by overdose.

Blake on September 22, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Sorry, I’ve got to jump on too. I fail to see how the doctor writing the prescriptions to his patients is responsible for the bad behavior of a few of his numbnut patients. He didn’t force them to go on the street and sell the drugs. How is it his fault? If the patients were coming up with more meds than they needed isn’t it their responsibility to tell the doc. they don’t need that much?

By: Knucklehead

Knucklehead — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:02:45 +0000

JohnGalt23 on September 22, 2009 at 12:41 PM

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

**snorts**

By: JohnGalt23

JohnGalt23 — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:41:54 +0000

unclesmrgol on September 22, 2009 at 12:30 PM

The guys trying to genetically eliminate THC from hemp are on the right track — especially since the “hairs” are recessive

Once again, proving that you really have no idea of which you speak. just what “haris” are you speaking of, eh? How’s that effort at genetically eliminating THC going, hmmm?

If they win, within a generation, marijuana won’t be problem any more.

Not that marijuana is really a problem now, but…

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

(takes a deep breath…) SNORT…SNORT..

Oh, man, that’s a knee-slapper…

By: unclesmrgol

unclesmrgol — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:35:38 +0000

Prohibition (alcohol) brought us organized crime and restriction on personal freedom.

The War on Crime & War on Drugs have brought us more of the same.

Abuse is a personal responsibility issue, not governmental regulatory issue.

AZ_Redneck on September 22, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Tall buildings brought us 9/11.

The War on Terror brought us more of the same.

Terror is a personal responsibility issue, not governmental regulatory issue.

By: unclesmrgol

unclesmrgol — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:33:46 +0000

Hilariously bad logic. The doctor wasn’t involved in illegal activity…several judges have already made that clear. If I purchase beer from a liquor store, for example, and give it to underage children, the store is not at fault…I am.

Asher on September 22, 2009 at 10:50 AM

I suspect this goes on far more than is publicized. The doctor was scammed by his patient, and if he were a better doctor, he wouldn’t have been. Strip him of his license, and the problem of street dealing in his area is solved.

By: unclesmrgol

unclesmrgol — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:30:11 +0000

So do us, and yourself a favor… more reading, and less posting. Maybe you’ll get off “stuck on stupid”.

JohnGalt23 on September 22, 2009 at 11:46 AM

I was stuck on stupid, but not any more. I got my son back, and I know what took him away.

So, since you are so right, no marinol either.

The guys trying to genetically eliminate THC from hemp are on the right track — especially since the “hairs” are recessive… If they win, within a generation, marijuana won’t be problem any more.

By: Badger40

Badger40 — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:30:09 +0000

With computerization of medical records, overprescribing & dr. shopping should eventually become a thing of the past.
Drs need to start sharing patient info & actually READ their patients files.
Patients who Dr shop for meds need to be prosecuted for trying to obtain more meds than they need.
Medical costs are so high not only bcs of Medicare/caid abuse & govt meddling, but bcs of stupid frivolous lawsuits that have no scientific basis, like autism being cause by vaccines, etc.
It is horrendous how much malpractice insurance costs.