Left finally free to stop pretending it supports the war in Afghanistan
posted at 5:47 pm on September 22, 2009 by Allahpundit
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“Left” in this case meaning the lefty blogosphere, of course. So toxic is the cynicism involved — as Ace puts it, “You… um… voiced support of a real serious-as-death war to cadge votes out of a duped public?” — that only someone with nothing to lose professionally would cop to it, which is why you’ll never hear The One or Pelosi or even Tom Friedman mouthing these sentiments. Our Democratic political/pundit class will go on playing the “we really wanted to win, but…” game and the rest of us will go on seeing right through it.
Serious question about their “good war” lie: Was it really a lie if no one was fooled?
Escalation is a bad idea. The Democrats backed themselves into defending the idea of Afghanistan being The Good War because they felt they needed to prove their macho bonafides they called for withdrawal from Iraq. Nobody asked too many questions sat the time, including me. But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy.
There have been many campaign promises “adjusted” since the election. There is no reason that the administration should feel any more bound to what they said about this than all the other committments [sic] it has blithely turned aside in the interest of “pragmatism.”
The only surprise here is the idea that campaign promises about war are to be taken no more or less lightly than, say, promises about gay marriage — another subject on which Obama transparently dissembled during the campaign to appease centrists. Feigning support for a mission launched in response to 9/11 to win an election is one thing; shrugging about it afterwards is another, and goes way, way beyond “blithe” unless you’re a stalwart dove or the type of see-no-evil sucker who laps up leftist canards about how Sunni and Shiite jihadists would never work together. But save the outrage: The lesson to draw, especially if you’re an independent, is that Democrats can’t be trusted to prosecute even a “good war,” even if it’s one that they explicitly promised to prosecute. Internalize that point, because I promise, it’s being internalized in Iran and Russia as I write this.
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The fact that this government is arguing about more troops make me sick!Our men and women are over there fighting for us and o and his cronies are playing politics.It amazes me that there are people still enlisting.NOTHING should be more important than their protection but o is shooting hoops in ny.
ohiobabe on September 22, 2009 at 7:25 PM
I asked questions. It never made any sense to me. It appeared that my guess, that it was merely to make Obama acceptable on security issues, was correct.
We’ve been there 7 years, without success. Time to come home.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 7:25 PM
Wingy, this is from a convo yesterday I thought ws w/you.
But look it over and tell me if it at least merits serious consideration of the events over the last year or so.
Having an Op-For backround (9th ID Scouts & 10th SF Group outta Ft.Lewis) in my service days, I am particularly attuned to seeing things from a “how to attack the Americans” vantage point, that was my job. Though that was from a tactical view, in retirement academically I have pursued my Masters in Strategic Int’l Studies and am currently considering (finances dictate) getting my Doctorate.
As I take the cumilative of Obama’s actions into account from strategic POV, either he is a MORON on our side, or a GENIUS against us.
If I were coaching a “Manchurian Candidate” on how to destoy this nation, I would council the following.
1)Undermine the rule of law to inspire a lack of confidence for investors.
2)Destabilize the currency to create a flight of capital and dry up credit. Destroy creditor faith in your ability to repay.
3)Try to foster either class, religious or racial strife., whichever is easiest and finds greatest support. Try to agitate through media the perception an “us and them” perception.
4)Overcommit forces in such a way as to insure victory no-where while deteriorating capabilities through relentless engagement. With terrain/theatre difficulty selected to maximum effect.
5) Undermine, or abrogate outright, treaties and traditional alliances to insure strategic isolation and hinder operational options. Internationally, subvert confidence that you will honor past, present and future obligations in areas of trade, finance and defense.
6) Demoralize the populace in the institutions of governance, the character of it’s leadership and blame preceedent traditional methodologies to shake the confidence of the people in its under lying principles.
This of course, is just a hypothetical “what if” I was advising nascent guerilla group or potential “Manchurian Candidate”.
Archimedes on September 22, 2009 at 7:28 PM
This should put an end once and for all that the
Liberal Party is weak on Foreign policy,and I dare
say Liberals might be right,
the war might be lost,
by the Left that is!!
Send the troops that are needed!!
canopfor on September 22, 2009 at 7:32 PM
Nope, as told you on the other thread. Pack your things, time to put up or shut up. The left has been calling Afghanistan “the ball we took our eyes off of” for 3-4 years now, and it’s time that y’all start showing us what you’ve got. Let’s see you set up an outpost in Jalalabad, or drive through the mountains near Asadabad… or near the dam east of Kabul….
again, pack your stuff, meet you by the curb, 0300 tomorrow.
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM
Not me.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM
So, you’re going to let him have it both ways on Afghanistan? Huh? WTFO! Let him use it for his “security issues” and then lose it too, when it gets too hard?
Tell that to Jay Blessing, tell it to Pat Tillman, tell it to Chris Falkel, tell it to Bradley Crose and Marc Anderson or their families—tell them that this president wants it both ways–he wants to invoke Afghanistan to get his foreign policy stripe, then lose it too when the heat gets turned up a notch.
There is absolutely no use for people like this.
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 7:41 PM
Yeah, we know, you’re the “not me” crowd, just like Obama–”not me, I was only 8 years old” or better yet, “not me, it was Booosh.” Or, try this one, “Not me, I don’t go fight wars, I just bitch and menstruate about them once they get tough.”
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Good.
I hope the neocons fail.
Spathi on September 22, 2009 at 7:42 PM
nice delayed censorship.
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 7:44 PM
Well said, but to be a bit more concise:
Never put a Democrat in charge of a war.
tom on September 22, 2009 at 7:44 PM
Did you pretend to like Afghanistan during the election season?
BadgerHawk on September 22, 2009 at 7:44 PM
They were never in support of the Afghan war. I got plenty of emails from my lefty artist friends before we went in to that effect.
Part of the reason they hated Bush anmd Iraq so much is they knew Afghanistan was justified and couldn’t stand it. Iraq gave them the platform they needed.
PattyJ on September 22, 2009 at 7:45 PM
What does neocons failing have to do with the piece of sh!t who wrote this blog post admitting he thinks our service members are nothing more than poker chips?
BadgerHawk on September 22, 2009 at 7:45 PM
PackerBronco on September 22, 2009 at 7:46 PM
Nope, as told you on the other thread. Pack your things, time to put up or shut up. The left has been calling Afghanistan “the ball we took our eyes off of” for 3-4 years now, and it’s time that y’all start showing us what you’ve got. Let’s see you set up an outpost in Jalalabad, or drive through the mountains near Asadabad… or near the dam east of Kabul….
again, pack your stuff, meet you by the curb, 0300 tomorrow.
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM
C’mon tTed lighten up just a tad will ya? Ther was rumor that we lost anninca the other day, which I found highly dis appointing to contemplate. While I am in complete agreement with your premise, AnninCa has always been polite and thoughtful in her deliberations however misguided.
HA would be boring if it served only as an eco-chamber of the right. Ann adds flavor to our discussions and keeps intellectually honest. Please do not run her off.
I say this in beleif that we are on the same side, and both at times may get a wee over exubernt when get our blood up.
Jussayin.
Archimedes on September 22, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Nope. But I’ve not understood for 7 years over that one. I didn’t understand even watching the patriot missles that blew up dessert dust, other than it was for show.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Damn, my typo-itis is bad today!
Archimedes on September 22, 2009 at 7:49 PM
desert dust. *jeesh….sorry
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 7:49 PM
“I’m very very worried by Obama’s decision to … oh, look! A creased pant leg!!!”
- David Brooks
Nice, LOL!
Archimedes on September 22, 2009 at 7:50 PM
arch;
I doubt if no one else has been successful in running her off by now, then she has that intrepidity, if you will, to invoke an obama turn of phrase.
Just merely inviting Ann the opportunity to defend the speech she so dearly loves to wield. Shouldn’t everyone have that same opportunity?
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 7:51 PM
I also support Iraq more than most. I’d hate to see an abrupt withdrawal that leaves that area too vulnerable. We’ve earned the right to a successful transition there.
And I think some of the problems with repeated tours is simply too high of a price to pay here. Bring them home. We’ve got domestic issues to address.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 7:51 PM
Ok. I didn’t remember you ever being a pretend cheerleader. If I found out you had I don’t I could be bothered to defend you in threads anymore. In fact, I’d probably turn nastier than some of the others.
But I’ve actually pulled caskets out of planes, so this stuff is personal for me.
BadgerHawk on September 22, 2009 at 7:52 PM
ted…..blast away. I don’t take it personally, unless you just are repeatedly nasty. Then I am quite capable of ignoring.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 7:52 PM
I definitely don’t want to see us stay there for appearance sake. That’s putting too many lives at risk.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 7:54 PM
The Dems were lying about supporting Afghanistan, which anyone with two brain cells could tell since 2002. The point is, how much longer are we going to be trying to prop up a bunch of 7th century nomads?
Speedwagon82 on September 22, 2009 at 7:54 PM
arch;
I doubt if no one else has been successful in running her off by now, then she has that intrepidity, if you will, to invoke an obama turn of phrase.
Just merely inviting Ann the opportunity to defend the speech she so dearly loves to wield. Shouldn’t everyone have that same opportunity?
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 7:51 PM
Indeed so sir, I was merely commenting on tone and tenor. Verbal fencing is heartily endorsed however it uses the finesse of an epee, blunt force trauma may be out of place, that’s all.
Archimedes on September 22, 2009 at 7:56 PM
I am direct and to the point on this issue. Equating directness with nastiness is like equating “choice” with “murder.” Also a transposition that is incorrect and illogical.
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 7:56 PM
Oops! Din-din is burning, back in a few….
Archimedes on September 22, 2009 at 7:57 PM
Truth to power!!
BigWyo on September 22, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Damn, damn , double damn! Food’s a tad “crunchy”.
Archimedes on September 22, 2009 at 8:00 PM
Obama was the only candidate to attack Bush on that level. Hillary certainly wasn’t talking about it. Neither was McCain.
But, the progressives got behind Afghanastan like it was THE only relevant hot spot. I truly never understood the obvious contradiction of hating Hillary because she voted for the war while supporting Obama on Afghanastan.
But even watching them have to suck it up is not a good reason to waste lives and resources on a lost cause.
I’m quite sure that the public is finished with war. This is a war-weary country. Rightfully so.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 8:04 PM
OReilly: IS there a crisis in Afghanistan?
Obama: no decision until we know what our strategy is, can we justify taking those steps, I’m gonna be asking hard questions.
Oreilly: if the US bails, terrorists win. Obama should commit troops.
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 8:04 PM
you may be right on both counts. We have the opportunity to fight and defeat the taliban. Should we take that opportunity or not?
ted c on September 22, 2009 at 8:06 PM
The greatest threat to this planet is the fact that Barack Hussein Obama is commander and chief of the most powerful force on earth. I think the American people are in more danger than our enemies.
ronnyraygun on September 22, 2009 at 8:14 PM
I’m not convinced there is a real opportunity. From my reading, and I happily admit, I’m not one to dig into military stuff, I can see the absolute horrific PR nightmare here, since it involves wading right into Pakistan.
And it involves wiping out civilians.
The rest of Afghanastan, from what I hear from John Bachelor’s show (he always has on some really good military guests) is that it’s completely different from Iraq. The fights are spread out, isolated, and horribly remote.
And lately, the elections, suggest that the notion that we go in and rebuild? Whew* I’d think that one over. Even reading about that in Iraq was an eye-opener for me.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 8:18 PM
Do we all remember when they left was saying that if Obama won the election, that things would get better with the Islamic world? Since he has taken office he has done nothing but cater to the Islamic world, yet the threat is as great as ever. Would anyone on the left care to answer why?
J_Crater on September 22, 2009 at 8:21 PM
Better American civilians than Aghanistan civilians? Or do you think that Al Qaeda no longer poses a threat?
I despair at times. If WWII had broken out in 2001 Jews would be extinct and all Europe would be speaking either Russian or German. We’ve lost the will to fight wars to win, and we prevent those who haven’t – like Israel – from doing so. In the end, we will lose much more than war.
ProfessorMiao on September 22, 2009 at 8:48 PM
I personally had enough will for Iraq. I supported the surge. Still think Bush did the right thing, too.
But this? 7 years and we’re starting over?
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 8:50 PM
And where will we be after the next terrorist strike in the US?
ProfessorMiao on September 22, 2009 at 8:56 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/afghan_agony_more_troops_won_help_DILbepkOZbQIHAyOXRocAM
Maybe this guy has the right answer. It’s different from the general’s and Obama’s vision.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009 at 8:56 PM
Petraeus was right on Iraq and he backs McChrystal. I’ll take that over Ralph Peters or Obama any day.
Those who say we should walk away are not addressing the cost of doing so. That includes you. There is a huge price to pay in doing that, a price that we will pay for a very, very long time.
ProfessorMiao on September 22, 2009 at 9:01 PM
indypat on September 22, 2009 at 9:08 PM
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
unclesmrgol on September 22, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Haven’t people been saying for some time that Afghanistan would have to be a very long commitment – 10, 15 or more years?
ProfessorMiao on September 22, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Should have nuked the taliban.
Then we should have given Saddam the option for unconditional surrender.
Troop losses – 0
Victory – Less than two weeks.
Saltysam on September 22, 2009 at 11:28 PM
2009-2001=7
Ann Math.
*facepalm*
Christien on September 22, 2009 at 11:30 PM
This is what happens when the military becomes a focus of PC and social engineering, a “career”, a “job”. When I was in I thought it was about killing the enemy and possibly dying in the process. It’s not the Boy Scouts.
The ONLY people that have a right to complain are the men and women actually over there and their families…and with few exceptions, I don’t hear much complaining. They want to be given the opportunity to destroy the enemy as they were trained to do so their buddies over there, and innocent Americans over here don’t get killed instead. Many have unhesitatingly sacrificed themselves in order to save others.
These Marxists have always been willing to see Americans sacrificed for nothing so that the ones they support can go about their business and further erode international stability so that they can move in and instill Socialism as a result of the confusion.
Don’t believe these Leftists when they say they care about the troops. They don’t. They only care about their ideology. They despise anyone in a uniform unless it’s a Communist revolutionary like Fidel or Che. To them, U.S. soldiers and those of our allies are the “forces of reaction”…their enemies, the true oppressors in their warped minds. The Taliban to them are revolutionaries fighting oppression and Capitalist Imperialism.
Dr. ZhivBlago on September 22, 2009 at 11:32 PM
I think y’all will appreciate this. Turn it up, watch it all.
The Greatest Man That Ever Lived (Afghanistan)
Christien on September 22, 2009 at 11:37 PM
Good video, Chris.
Dr. ZhivBlago on September 22, 2009 at 11:54 PM
I’m quite sure that the public is finished with war. This is a war-weary country. Rightfully so.
AnninCA on September 22, 2009
No, it’s a surrender-weary country. We are prepared to go the distance to win. The left never wanted that and still doesn’t. They used one military conflict to club Bush over the head on another and now just say “never mind”. We stepped into a den of rattlesnakes for a reason and we have a duty to clean out that den, not least of which for those who have gone before and sacrificed so much. And our military can do it if given the resouces and support of the people and their “leaders”. That truth is lost on the surrender monkeys in Washington, the media and around here.
SKYFOX on September 23, 2009 at 8:24 AM
FIFY
MarkTheGreat on September 23, 2009 at 8:57 AM
So I guess there’s not one American citizen you love enough to defend from Islamists who would trigger a nuclear weapon, if they had it, inside the most populous city in America? Not one neighbor you feel is worthy of an American soldier’s sacrifice of time, sweat, blood and even Life, to keep Islamists from killing a dozen, a thousand, or even a million innocent Americans inside the US, or even abroad. You obviously then feel that tourists who get killed on vacation overseas deserve their deaths, and American workers (including the native host country citizens who work for American companies) deserve to be dragged through the streets of Saudi Arabia, beheaded for sport on al Jazeera TV, deserve to be crushed and burned in the American embassies of Tanzania and Kenya, and the native populations of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Sudan, Indonesia, and Pakistan deserve to be oppressed by Islamic thugs who see only the al-Hadith and the Koran as justification for every immoral and illegal act perpetrated on “infidels” of any stripe? Folks who see every evil act they perform justified as according to God’s will, and the consequences of not embracing the Koran as the one True Book of God?
Are there maybe a dozen of your friends and neighbors who don’t deserve protection? What if it was a thousand who don’t deserve protection? A million?
Don’t be a victim of Islamist killers, because AnninCA doesn’t feel you deserve to be safe from harm whether you are in America or in Russia or in Israel or in France or Sweden, even. You torqued off the Muslims, so you deserve it if they kill you for sport.
Do I have that logic about right, Ann?
Don’t fight for your life because the Islamists have a point. Maybe we are evil? Maybe we aren’t justified in trying to live peacefully with others, who continually stab US in the back and then blame US for making them do it? Because we deserved it.
I guess doing nothing in the face of thugs and criminals, and, yes, Evil men, is the path you would take, Ann?
It is not a path I, or my shipmates, or my fellow Americans choose as our common fate or the fate we wish on our relatives, friends, neighbors, or fellow citizens. So you may just say Thank you, …….. and then get out of our way while we go about the business of changing the Islamic world for the better and protecting America while we do so. Your opinions on this matter, since there is no one worthy of our lives or yours, do not mean squat to us.
Subsunk
Subsunk on September 23, 2009 at 10:05 AM
When this whole thing started, Bush warned the American people that this would be a very long conflict, and that many battles and successes would never even be seen by the public.
If you expected everything to be over in 7 years, it’s your own fault for not paying more attention.
tom on September 23, 2009 at 2:40 PM
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