BaucusCare raising taxes in two ways
posted at 8:48 am on September 21, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Allahpundit wrote about this last night, but it’s worth emphasizing a couple of other big points about Barack Obama and this plan by Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) to overhaul the American health-care system. First, Obama seems to take ownership of this plan by coming to its defense not from Republican attacks but by criticism from Democrats over the issue of middle-class taxation. He starts by claiming that Americans are getting taxed by insurers with price increases as a means of excusing what are actually two big government bites in the Baucus bill:
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet this week, Senator Rockefeller and several other Democrats say that this bill by Senator Baucus is a big middle class tax increase.
Do you agree and does that mean you can’t sign it?
OBAMA: Well, I don’t agree. I think that what they were referring to — and I haven’t looked at the quotes. But I think that they were concerned about whether or not this was actually affordable. If you’re saying to people, you’ve got to get health insurance but they can’t actually afford it and they have to pay a penalty if they don’t get it, then that’s a pretty big burden on middle class families. That’s a concern I share — making sure that this is affordable.
But the first thing we’ve got to understand is you’ve got what is effectively a tax increase taking place on American families right now. The Kaiser Family Foundation report just came out last week. Health care premiums went up 5.5 percent last year, at a time when the rest of the economy, inflation was actually negative. So that is a huge bite out of people’s pockets.
First, this is absurd. Rising prices are now a “tax” when it comes from a private-sector industry raising its prices in response to rising costs associated with technological advances and demand outstripping supply. However, when Obama and Congress intend to hike energy prices by $1761 per household per year through direct government intervention into the energy market, that’s not a tax? With the latter, the money goes directly to the government, making it much more of a tax than rising insurance prices, which go to cover the costs of the risk pools. Right now, the entire health-insurance industry makes an anemic 3.3% profit margin, which means the price increases of 5.5% last year doesn’t mean the money is going to the stockholders.
Then Obama tries dropping this explanation on Stephanopoulos:
STEPHANOPOULOS: You were against the individual mandate…
OBAMA: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: …during the campaign. Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don’t
How is that not a tax?
OBAMA: Well, hold on a second, George. Here — here’s what’s happening. You and I are both paying $900, on average — our families — in higher premiums because of uncompensated care. Now what I’ve said is that if you can’t afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn’t be punished for that. That’s just piling on.
If, on the other hand, we’re giving tax credits, we’ve set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we’ve driven down the costs, we’ve done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you’ve just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances. And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that’s…
STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.
OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase.
People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.
All of that would be arguable if it weren’t for the fact that the Baucus bill calls the fine for not complying with the individual mandate an “excise tax”. Really. It’s right there in the bill, as Jazz Shaw points out, on page 29, Subtitle D, Shared Responsibility:
Excise Tax. The consequence for not maintaining insurance would be an excise tax. If a taxpayer’s MAGI is between 100-300 percent of FPL, the excise tax for failing to obtain coverage for an individual in a taxpayer unit (either as a taxpayer or an individual claimed as a dependent) is $750 per year. However, the minimum penalty for the taxpayer unit is $1,500. If a taxpayer’s MAGI is above 300 percent of FPL the penalty for failing to obtain coverage for an individual in a taxpayer unit (either as a taxpayer or as an individual claimed as a dependent) is $950 year. However, the maximum penalty amount a family above 300 percent of FPL would pay is $3,800.
And it’s not the only excise tax, either. I wrote last week about the excise tax on so-called “Cadillac plans”, a 35% tax on insurers (including self-insuring employers) who offer individual plans that cost more than $8,000 or family plans greater than $21,000. Now, Obama could argue that this particular tax will likely never get applied, because insurers and employers will simply stop offering plans in that price range, but that creates another big problem. Baucus plans on getting $259 billion over ten years from that tax, revenue that he uses to fund his overhaul. If that tax never generates any revenue, which it almost assuredly will not, then BaucusCare has a hole in its funding for about a third of its cost. It will be a disaster.
The bottom line is that the Baucus plan and its mandates comprise two new taxes, both of which will hit the middle class, and both — not coincidentally — to be managed by the IRS. If that doesn’t fit the dictionary definition of taxes, then what does?










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I simply cannot watch the man.
PrincipledPilgrim on September 21, 2009 at 8:52 AM
Ogabe is busy ignoring the ACORN disaster, he can’t be expected to know the fine details of a healthcare scheme he is busy shoving in our faces on a daily basis.
Bishop on September 21, 2009 at 8:52 AM
But wait, HA misses the point, these “technicalities” you so aptly point out are only for mere mortals like the sweaty masses……….remember, The Messiah was crowned in a Greek temple and Mrs. Messiah has not been very proud of America – that may explain why The One was born in Nigeria – err Kenya….or Russia? Who knows? And that’s the issue…….who knows where this scum bag Marxist came from. Some rock somewhere.
Cinday Blackburn on September 21, 2009 at 8:54 AM
It’s amazing to me that he doesn’t think the government taking money is a tax. No other industry can say, ‘buy our product or we’ll charge you money’. No other industry can say, ‘if you can’t afford our product we’ll take money from other people to purchase it for you’.
When the government takes your money as a ‘penalty’ for ANYTHING. . . it is a tax.
ThackerAgency on September 21, 2009 at 8:54 AM
Apparently, he thinks all the money you make is property of the government, and you should be thankful that he lets you keep any of it.
ThackerAgency on September 21, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Caution: Tipping point approaching…..
VelvetElvis on September 21, 2009 at 8:55 AM
For a guy who thinks that lower gas prices are ‘like a tax cut’, this isn’t really surprising.
BadgerHawk on September 21, 2009 at 8:55 AM
No kidding. I don’t care how they word it, it’s a tax. Baucus is a moron.
mjk on September 21, 2009 at 8:55 AM
What the government is kind enough to let you keep are like your profits ‘off the top’.
BadgerHawk on September 21, 2009 at 8:56 AM
I did not watch any of o’s appearances and do not intend to in the future but looking at this transcript,I can’t help but wonder when the rest of this country will wake up.Then again,as I am writing this I realize that they probably are awake,they just don’t believe this prez is not going to take care of them…Anyone that continues to lie looking you straight in the face is very dangerous b/cause they will do whatever they have to ,to get you to believe them.
ohiobabe on September 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Nice picture of Stephanopoulis. Just the way I felt at the Most Boring Address to Congress Ever.
I like how Obama starts chastising “George” for talking about the tax. “Hey, George, don’t make me revoke ABC’s press creds at the White House, now”…
Nethicus on September 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Once you know all Obama does is lie, it’s not worth listening anymore …
I wonder if the world got the same message with Poland?
tarpon on September 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Don’t confuse us with facts now.
modifiedcontent on September 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Again, he presumes to know what they (Rockefeller et.al.) are referring to without reading their quotes. He is a mind-reader!
ctmom on September 21, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Last year, Wellpoint’s gross profits were $63 billion dollars. Unitedhealth Group’s was 6.24 billion. Aetna’s profit was 8 billion. Those are just the first three companies linked in your yahoo page.
But here comes Ed to tearfully sniff “gosh they have such an anemic profit margin, boo hoo. Won’t somebody think of the poor insurance industry?” Ahem, cry me a river.
e-pirate on September 21, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Plus all the supposed savings we’re going to ring out of Medicare that don’t actually exist. And to our lefties, if those savings do exist, why hasn’t President Obama already started going after them? Seems like a fairly major oversight in these times of catastrophic deficits, no?
BadgerHawk on September 21, 2009 at 8:59 AM
So long as Obama keeps pitching this himself with an apparent (per him) lack of knowledge of both the details of the actual plan as well as not knowing (again per him) the specifics of the criticisms of those in his OWN party, then he’ll fail to persuade. This also shows how much trouble he’s in w/r/t the details of a plan, THAT STILL DOESN’T EXIST! If he can’t argue the finer points in theory, how hard of a time will he have when a final plan is on the table, assuming that comes to pass.
Overall, I thought that the questions were much more pointed than I would have expected and, as expected, Obama had a little trouble arguing his point(s). When even Andrea Mitchell admits that the new mandate is a tax, then the whole “it’s only a fine” is pretty much dead.
volnation on September 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
You are confused about the difference between profits and profit margins.
BadgerHawk on September 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
George kinda looks like Peter Faulk in that picture.
shick on September 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
When did amateur hour turn into a four year event?
boomer on September 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Somewhere George Orwell is screaming at us to protect the meaning of words.
elduende on September 21, 2009 at 9:02 AM
ABC Radio news is just now reporting the embezzlement of ACORN funds by the brother of the founder. Have we known about this for a long long time? The NYT hid the story and former employees who requested an aduit are being sued. MSM is ridiculous.
Cindy Munford on September 21, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Do you think these companies should be losing money? Would you think more highly of them if they went bankrupt like AIG, GM, Chrysler, Lehman Brothers?
If they go bankrupt because they don’t make any money, nobody has insurance. Is that the government plan? Make it so nobody has insurance?
Does the Federal Government make any money on these profits? Is the health insurance industry exempt from paying federal taxes on profits? Without profits, where would the government get money? Oh yeah, taxes.
ThackerAgency on September 21, 2009 at 9:03 AM
” “When I use a word,” ” Humpty Dumpty’said, in a rather scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean-neither more nor less.”
” “The question is,” ” said Alice, ” “whether you can make words mean so many differ- ent things.” ”
” “The question is,” ” said Humpty Dumpty, ” “which is to be master-that’s all.” ”
Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
petefrt on September 21, 2009 at 9:03 AM
When is comes to THE WON, really the best thing to do is step back and let h im sink himself. His young followers think that there is no cost to these plans. No cost to them whatsoever. That is why the young don’t have insurance, they don’t want to pay.
They can keep thinking it will be free but the more Obama talks the more apparent the cost is.
ORconservative on September 21, 2009 at 9:04 AM
1. Our President has swamp land in Fl.
2. I can’t believe STEPHANOPOULOS let him get away with using the car insurance analogy again.
therightscoop on September 21, 2009 at 9:05 AM
If they can enforce it, it is a TAX.Next thing he does is deny he’s barry soetero.He has no comprehension of the word “truth”.YOU LIE!
tim c on September 21, 2009 at 9:05 AM
Cindy Munford on September 21, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Yes, BillO reported on it because he was pushed by Beck in August.
ORconservative on September 21, 2009 at 9:05 AM
If you get a tax credit to get into an exchange pool so that you can afford insurance and are forced to buy it or else, how is getting a tax credit not an increase in somebody else’s taxes? More pretzel logic from the pretzel in chief.
Kissmygrits on September 21, 2009 at 9:07 AM
He lies, that’s all you need to know when it comes to policy statements from Barrack Obama.
Hellrider on September 21, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Obama getting a little testy with George? say it ain’t so…
george almost crossing a line there with criticizing dear leader
/s
cmsinaz on September 21, 2009 at 9:08 AM
No matter what one feels about healthcare reform, the role of government, or the “right” to healthcare there is one fundamental truth. The politicians are being irresponsible by forging ahead with this plan without ever explaining where the funding for the scheme is coming from.
It is a fundamental fact that you can not expand services and enrollment without increasing costs. Vague claims of savings through elimination of “inefficiences” or calling tax increases “responsibilities” are absurd. The whole thing should be scrapped until there is a rational and realistic way to pay for reform (or scale back the scheme to that which is affordable).
highhopes on September 21, 2009 at 9:08 AM
In one or more of the original bills, union plans were somehow favored. Under BaucusCare, given its proposed taxation of “cadillac plans,” is anyone aware of an exception of any kind for union plans? I wouldn’t be surprised if there is such an exception.
BuckeyeSam on September 21, 2009 at 9:10 AM
The ultra-cute part of Baucus’ bill is the fact that the so-called “Cadillac plans” which are taxed an additional 35% exclude the “Cadillac plans” held by unions.
Only soak the “rich”, right Obama?
This empty suit can parse and dodge as well as Clinton.
bradley11 on September 21, 2009 at 9:10 AM
And that quote should be under that pic of lil’ Georgie, because it looks like thats exactly what he’s thinkin’
The State Run Media loves to put someone on top just to knock him over later….here’s hoping they get to it sooner, rather than later.
Jerome Horwitz on September 21, 2009 at 9:11 AM
Does he not know that an increase in premiums is not a tax. If my premiums go up to the point I can not afford the plan, I can get a new plan. I can’t get a new tax rate.
Or can I?
mechkiller_k on September 21, 2009 at 9:12 AM
I would very much like e-pirate to respond the remark back he got above.
Can you explain the difference between profits and profit margins? If not, then tell me you are not out of high school. PLEASE. Dumba$$.
di butler on September 21, 2009 at 9:13 AM
Hey Obama, listen up.
Any money that goes from my pocket to the government is a TAX, period.
Any money that goes from my pocket to a private business to cover taxes they pay or costs of government regulation is an INDIRECT TAX on me.
You can call them fees or fines or penalties or, for that matter, corn flakes.
But they’re still effing TAXES.
TXUS on September 21, 2009 at 9:13 AM
That was some good boxing-in on the tax issue by Stephanopoulos, however, it’s sad to see how our president is so stuck on ideology and selling this healthcare plan he won’t concede to simple logic.
RepubChica on September 21, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Literally, our comments crossed paths. Do you have a link to anything regarding that exception? I’m not trying to get in your face; I’d just like to see some current confirmation.
BuckeyeSam on September 21, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Well this is a relief. I can now drop my uninsured motorist coverage….that is, as soon as the law is changed so that I don’t have to carry it any more since everyone has to buy insurance.
/s
GnuBreed on September 21, 2009 at 9:14 AM
e-pirate does better than many of our trolls by generally using some facts in his snark, but he rarely sticks around to back it up when called on something.
BadgerHawk on September 21, 2009 at 9:14 AM
i would agree with you up to a point….they really pushed to have this man elected, they will do everything in their power to make sure he stays up there, if (and when) he falls, they are doomed
cmsinaz on September 21, 2009 at 9:15 AM
e-pirate on September 21, 2009 at 8:59 AM
uhm hello there! health insurers avg profit margin in USA is 3%, drug companies is 13% GOOGLE is 30%
go buy a clue before you try to troll here
ginaswo on September 21, 2009 at 9:15 AM
see TOTUS misses the point if I have no money for food I can choose to NOT DRIVE and not have to pay car insurance
under Baucus plan just being ALIVE means I pay this tax
ginaswo on September 21, 2009 at 9:17 AM
Heh, follow the money. Who printed it vs. who “honors” it’s value? Progressively, we’re left with one out of two.
maverick muse on September 21, 2009 at 9:17 AM
Obama is embarrassing himself now…..seriously….
The guy is out of his league.
Welcome back Carter.
alecj on September 21, 2009 at 9:18 AM
Khun Joe’s “simple solution” to the new health care tax:
1. Identify yourself as a DEMOCRAT on your IRS-1040
2. Pay an extra amount in TAX direct to the Treasury.
3. This tax will be calculated based on your Gross Taxable Income. There will be no deduction, tax credit or offset.
Since YOU want it, YOU pay for it… Every April… You want to stick your nose in everybody else’s business, reach into your wallet for the privilege…
Republicans and others will not have to pay…
Problem solved…
Khun Joe on September 21, 2009 at 9:18 AM
Sweetie, how do you think healthcare gets paid for? Insurance companies make money,, then they use it to pay for hospital stays, doctor visits etc.
YOu seem to think the insurance company pockets the money and doctors and hospitals get paid in skittle crapping unicorns or something.
mjk on September 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM
And ever since Tony Rezko sold it to him, he’s been trying to sell it.
Obama’s got a perfect “out” of this debacle—he can make the claim that he will not except defeat in Afghanistan, send in 50,000 troops to WIN, and tell the public this healthcare crap will be on hold until that war is over. His “not one dime” can also be used as an “out”.
Rovin on September 21, 2009 at 9:20 AM
A reminder of who this guy is; one can tell much about a person through their writings…
From Dreams of My Father: ‘I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.’
From Dreams of My Father : ‘I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother’s race.’
From Dreams of My Father: ‘There was something about her that made me wary, a little too sure of herself, maybe and white.
From Dreams of My Father: ‘It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.’
From Dreams of My Father: ‘I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn’t speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa , that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself: the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.’
From Audacity of Hope: ‘I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.’
Keemo on September 21, 2009 at 9:20 AM
Every cent you make he’ll be taxing you.
RepubChica on September 21, 2009 at 9:21 AM
This figure is propaganda released by the lefty lobbying group Families USA. The non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation (a group Obama himself cites earlier in the interview) found that uncompensated care constitutes a very small percentage of total healthcare spending (2.7%) and that most of this is funded by the government, not through higher premiums.
http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/The-Cost-of-Care-for-the-Uninsured-What-Do-We-Spend-Who-Pays-and-What-Would-Full-Coverage-Add-to-Medical-Spending.pdf
Ponz on September 21, 2009 at 9:22 AM
As has been noted by others, you seem to misunderstand the term “profit margin”, and as it is, you need to pay attention to the percentage number quoted there. 3.3% leaves very little operating room in real-time business activity.
Try running a business, any business, that close to 0% and see what happens.
Bishop on September 21, 2009 at 9:23 AM
No kidding. UIM coverage here in AZ is pretty high, because of all the illegals driving around without insurance. And we could also significantly lower the tax money we have to spend on reimbursing hospitals here for treating the uninsured if we enforced our immigration laws and sent these moochers home. But that would offend part of Obama’s voting base, so he’ll never agree to that — no matter how fair and common sense a solution it is.
AZCoyote on September 21, 2009 at 9:23 AM
Ed, I don’t know how you or anyone without a degree in accounting or a gift for memorizing the tax code can make sense of the Baucus bill. I read your explanation and am overwhelmed with the details and implications.
How can the average person make sense of the tangled mess?
So I have to step back and remember the basics:
1) The government does not manage things better than the private sector (because there’ no incentive).
2) The main motivation of government is to raise revenue (taxes) and increase its power, even if it supposed to be for benevolent purposes.
3) The government writes laws that are convoluted and filled with hidden loopholes that mainly benefit the authors.
Pazman on September 21, 2009 at 9:23 AM
I hear ya……my point being is that, in the long run, they will need to sell papers to stay afloat……and nothing sells physical copies of print like a scandal (or two or three), which judging from this administration, the pickin’s ain’t slim.
Jerome Horwitz on September 21, 2009 at 9:24 AM
Never mind the actual substance, logic, or even truth in what he said! The mere syntax is breathtaking.
If the quote had started with the word: PALIN, the left would be ripping those sentances to shreds, howling with derision, and inserting superfluous puntuation all over the place. (And I’ll bet Ed even cleaned up a bunch of “errhs, uh, uhs,” too.)
Chewy the Lab on September 21, 2009 at 9:25 AM
The evolutionary progression of eugenics through ObamaCare, HR3200, into BaucusCare?
Stage 1: mandates
Stage 2: fines
Stage 3: taxes
Is Heritage Foundation funding another research analysis of this latest government footprint crushing Americans in the name of providing “relief” via hangman’s noose?
maverick muse on September 21, 2009 at 9:25 AM
copy that…
cmsinaz on September 21, 2009 at 9:25 AM
The Elite Media… About 6 months too late… I remember watching when O’Reilly and Beck broke the “New Orleans ACORN SEIU empty funeral home $1,000,000 embezelled no charges pressed story” SO LONG AGO… SO hopefully FNC will make more hay today while the sun shines…
Khun Joe on September 21, 2009 at 9:27 AM
9:20 AM
Leave that dream gone nightmare @ Paterson’s.
maverick muse on September 21, 2009 at 9:27 AM
BTW: Inflation has only been negative, however mildly only this year since 2000!
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/CurrentInflation.asp
IanTrouble on September 21, 2009 at 9:30 AM
I’ll join that chorus particularly because Obama’s on strict unconstitutional grounds with his media “bail-out”.
maverick muse on September 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM
You’re surely not suggesting he has a hidden agenda?
(and get to work, so you can pay my taxes…. :)
Rovin on September 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Tax Increase Alert (according to Obamanomics):
My store-brand yogurt cup went up in price 15 cents.
NickelAndDime on September 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM
can’t wait until the ratings come out…
NickelAndDime on September 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM
The comparison of the health insurance individual mandate to car insurance requirements is dishonest and deliberately misleading.
If you choose to own and drive a car, you are required to buy insurance.
If you exist, under this plan you would be required to buy health insurance.
The individual mandate is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
hillbillyjim on September 21, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Simply too much time left on his clock. Chances are some of this shnizzle will get thru just on sheer odds. Link him to corruption, impeach STAT in the mean time pray for pox in his house and agenda.
Alden Pyle on September 21, 2009 at 9:41 AM
Rovin on September 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Hidden agenda; worse than that.. :)
I’ve got some current updates for you, I’ll email you directly.
Keemo on September 21, 2009 at 9:41 AM
The real taxes in the bill are increased costs for providers. They will be passed right through to the cost for healthcare. Who do you think pays for that?
marklmail on September 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM
“Obama Appoints Bizarro Economic Policy Communications Czar” http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/07/obama-appoints-bizarro-economic-policy.html
Mervis Winter on September 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM
I predict a sudden rise in the number of Christian Scientists in the USA if this passes…or the number of Amish…
ginaswo on September 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM
I don’t think Barry would tell the truth in an interview if his life depended on it. So because it in our best interest, according to him, any money the government takes from us is not a tax?
Congress owes Joe Wilson an apology.
cadams on September 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM
Medicare and Medicaid are about 70 trillion in the hole and that hole grew by about 6 trillion last year alone. Which is worse?
Chuck Schick on September 21, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Nobody? I bet there are a lot of low income families who are judgment proof (courts can’t garnish your wages for payment of a debt if you are already below the poverty line) who consider this a tax.
Worse in their case they are being required to make a purchase that can only benefit someone else and in particular someone who almost certainly ears more than them making this in their view a regressive tax.
I always wondered how much of a kickback the state legislature got from the lawyers and insurance companies for passing that mandate.
agmartin on September 21, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Insurance companies raising premiums is now taxation. Government is the only entity permitted to “tax”. Notice how governmnet refers to taxes as revenue?
AASLT on September 21, 2009 at 10:00 AM
It’s all about “Social Justice” for Obama. Once you understand that, you can pretty much anticipate the direction the guy will go on any topic.
He is the sham-wow guy, the pitch-man for the real players in this game. I hate the sham-wow and the products Obama’s pushing are even worse.
KickandSwimMom on September 21, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Obama is like Jello. Ever try to mail jello to the wall?
The dictionary definition of “Tax” was brought out to attempt to wall Obama in, and he used that as evidence that George was stretching things?
To Obama the truth is very elastic. It is what ever he wants it to be.
The Rock on September 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Well then,
I had no ide my grocery bill is actually a tax.
Now I know, thanks to the smartest man who has ever lived.
notagool on September 21, 2009 at 10:07 AM
The Supreme Court has ruled that the government can take your property and hand it over to a corporation (Kelo)
Why would you expect any different in this case?
agmartin on September 21, 2009 at 10:08 AM
The use of the English language by Barry and the Acolytes is taxing.
Loxodonta on September 21, 2009 at 10:08 AM
Message to George S–Reading between the Obamalines…
ted c on September 21, 2009 at 10:09 AM
IIRC in some religions purchasing insurance is considered to be gambling and is forbidden.
agmartin on September 21, 2009 at 10:11 AM
“The road to hell is paved with good intentions”.
Johan Klaus on September 21, 2009 at 10:12 AM
The thing about the car insurance argument – if you don’t want to pay for car insurance, don’t get a car. Therefore, it’s voluntary. Obama’s mandate makes health insurance required. No way to opt out. The car insurance argument is a non-sequitur
DougV on September 21, 2009 at 10:12 AM
I totally agreed with everything you said until you said the above.
Let’s say there was a way to pay for it. Pretend that the economy wasn’t bad and there was enough money in the budget to pay for Obama Care. Does that make it right? Does it then become constitutional to force Americans to purchase “insurance” that really isn’t insurance but actually an enrollment fee into a health care control plan? Is it right to force Americans not only to enroll into this health control plan but also pay the premiums of those that can’t afford the premiums?
Come on, right is right, and the Constitution is still the founding document of this country regardless of affordability.
katablog.com on September 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM
But wait, HA misses the point, these “technicalities” you so aptly point out are only for mere mortals like the sweaty masses……….remember, The Messiah was crowned in a Greek temple and Mrs. Messiah has not been very proud of America – that may explain why The One was born in Nigeria – err Kenya….or Russia? Who knows? And that’s the issue…….who knows where this scum bag Marxist came from. Some rock somewhere.
Cinday Blackburn on September 21, 2009 at 8:54 AM
This invites the usual “birther” argument which is near guaranteed to drive any thread off the rails. The bottom line to the BC issue is why Obama has chosen to spend nearly $1.5 million to silience issue? No matter what you beleive, that would seem to be a considerable amount o dough ( personal funds, not campaign or other) to spend on a non-issue, ya think?
Where ever Obama popped outta the womb, all you really need to know is that he is of Chicago. Anyone familiar with Chicago, it’s politics, and it’s trademarked The Chicago Way knows the old adage, “Don’ send nobody, nobody sent!” Translated, pol’s that hail from Chi-town don’t show up on your radar screen unless somebody sent them, period.
Michael Barone coined the term “thugocracy” to describe this administration, that fits the mobbed up crowd we have in the White House fairly well. If you doubt it, just look at the somebody, somebody sent to fill Obama’s shoes in US Senate. Alexi Gouliannis, prior to being recommended by Obama to run the Illinois State Treasury, he was quite well known here as the “banker to the mob”.
With Blago’s aide now the “dearly departed” from an aspirin overdose. Be very, very, suspicious should anything happen to Blago or State’s Atty. Fitzgerald!
Archimedes on September 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM
I wish Obama would just be honest about this (and everything else for that matter)
The reason for the mandate is to force the wealthy into the program.
Socialism doesn’t work if there aren’t poor to exploit, and wealthy to pay the tab.
cntrlfrk on September 21, 2009 at 10:17 AM
This from the same guy conflating any increase in income with “a tax cut.”
(Which, hard as it seems, might be the stupidest thing he has repeatedly said.)
Abby Adams on September 21, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Damn! Paste the wrong post, oh well. Its not as if everyone isn’t famliar with the topic.
Archimedes on September 21, 2009 at 10:21 AM
Yo, idiot:
Health insurance companies are regulated in each of the 50 states (or is it 57?). State government regulators have a say in what kind of profits insurers make. Everyone’s forgetting about this fact of the insurance world.
either orr on September 21, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Yo, idiot:
Health insurance companies are regulated in each of the 50 states (or is it 57?). State government regulators have a say in what kind of profits insurers make. Everyone’s forgetting about this fact of the insurance world.
either orr on September 21, 2009 at 10:22 AM
That would be 57, “with 2 left to go.” Per his exellency The Won.
Archimedes on September 21, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Lower gas taxes are ‘like a tax cut’.
BadgerHawk on September 21, 2009 at 10:27 AM
It’s not a tax increase it’s outright tyranny! P-BO demands that you be responsible so you must do it or get punished. Unbelievable! This idiot is telling everyone he’s an authoritarian and either doesn’t realize it, doesn’t care or is so far gone that he considers it common knowledge to be his job to MAKE us responsible. Wow!
I thought we were our brothers’ keeper?! When it comes to “spreading the wealth” as he told Joe the Plumber, carrying others’ burdens is fine but with his healthcare plan, no way?!! C’mon! This is what passes for amazing rhetoric and insightful leadership? It’s sick that the media doesn’t challenge this turd!
beselfish on September 21, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Found a reference equating health insurance with gambling and therefore being haraam.
I’ve read that muslims can claim an exemption from the mandate under Romneycare
agmartin on September 21, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Surely, everyone will welcome the new:
- Tax on Tampons
- Tax on Condoms
No kidding.
faraway on September 21, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Ah come on. You don’t believe that rhetorical do you? Of course you are still your brothers’ keeper and of course you still will continue to carry the load for all those people who can’t afford health control insurance. Responsibility was merely a buzz word O picked up while talking with the Russians.
katablog.com on September 21, 2009 at 10:40 AM
I don’t think they are exempted! Sen. Rockefeller says it will hit coal miners very hard because of their excellent benefits — so he’s against the Baucus plan.
Chris_Balsz on September 21, 2009 at 10:41 AM
First, auto insurance isn’t to protect you, it is more geared to protect others property (be it their body or physical property). Health insurance is for you own personal coverage where you can choose how much risk you want. I am so sick of this lame ‘comparison’.
And…let’s see, with auto insurance the money goes to a private insurer. Under the One’s plan, the government is directly paid…you know, like a tax!
Also, with auto insurance, failing to abide by the law exposes you to lawsuits between private entities (you and the other person you harmed or their insurer). Now the government, apparently, also would become a party as they are directly involved in collecting money related to insurance decisions.
Even worse, the IRS and other Fed. agencies aren’t snooping in your records to see if you have auto insurance and if you have “sufficient” auto insurance, according to them. With Obama-Baucus, layers of bureaucrats will be snooping through and sharing your personal information, looking for a reason to slap you with a fine for making a choice that only involves yourself!
batter on September 21, 2009 at 10:54 AM
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