Jimmy Carter’s NSA: Hey, let’s shoot down Israeli jets if they fly over Iraq to attack Iran

posted at 6:54 pm on September 20, 2009 by Allahpundit

A stark reminder via Goldfarb that no matter how bad you think The One is, we could do — and have done — worse.

DB: How aggressive can Obama be in insisting to the Israelis that a military strike might be in America’s worst interest?

Brzezinski: We are not exactly impotent little babies. They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?

DB: What if they fly over anyway?

Brzezinski: Well, we have to be serious about denying them that right. That means a denial where you aren’t just saying it. If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a Liberty in reverse.

Goldfarb in reply: “So conjure the image — the Obama administration sending U.S. aircraft up to protect Iran’s airspace and it’s nuclear installations from an attack by a democracy that is one of America’s closest allies.” Indeed. Why is it, I wonder, that this eminence grise of the left, whose side is forever screeching at the right to stop warmongering and embrace diplomacy, is suddenly ready to start blowing F-15s out of the sky over Baghdad instead of reprimanding Israel diplomatically after the fact? That’s an awfully curious stroke of belligerence given that (a) the IAF would be entering Iraqi airspace to attack not the United States but one of its chief enemies, (b) a successful attack on Iran’s facilities would at least delay a nuclear crisis in the Gulf for a few years, and (c) the only reason Israel hasn’t struck already is because it’s put its faith, very stupidly, in the west’s ability to deter Iran with, ahem, diplomacy. In an odd way, it reminds me of the DNC promising a “rain of hellfire” on critics of ObamaCare while The One’s gearing up to schmooze with the dregs of international autocracy this week at the UN. Our side likes to bait the left by accusing them of weakness, but they seem plenty capable of tough talk and hardline reprisals if you’re an American conservative or Israeli Zionist. Funny, that.

As for Brzezinski’s creepy anticipation of a new U.S.S. Liberty incident, whether “in reverse” or not, Goldfarb’s got that right too. Maybe not for ZB but for many others, that’s not a bug in the plan, it’s a feature.


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We don’t own Iraqi airspace. Iraq is a sovereign country. For someone involved in international affairs, he doesn’t know much about international affairs

erakis on September 20, 2009 at 9:54 PM

he doesn’t know much about international affairs

erakis on September 20, 2009 at 9:54 PM

He was in the Carter Administration so knowledge about International Affairs is negligible.

thomasaur on September 20, 2009 at 9:57 PM

He got them mixed up with teen-age manned pirate ships I guess.

bluegrass on September 20, 2009 at 9:57 PM

“Binyam, innocent man who endured 7 years of Bush-era peniis and scrtum torture, launches legal effort”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/05/binyam-mohamed-guantanamo-evidence-photographs

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 9:49 PM

If we would just follow the strict rules of the Third Geneva Convention, and execute terrorists when we catch them, they would not be able to spread propaganda counter-attacks on us after we are nice enough not to kill them.

We will lose hundreds of thousands or millions or of our own people by this kind of suicidally-stupid p*ssyfooting with these homicidal maniacs ~who lie as naturally as they breath.

The breathing should have ended on the same day of capture.

Those are the Rules of War, which they broke, and should have suffered the fatal consequences of.

Playing nice with guys who slice your head off with kitchen cutlery is so sweet.

Until its your head.

And their knife.

profitsbeard on September 20, 2009 at 9:58 PM

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 9:48 PM

There were parts of the Patriot Act that I disagreed with at it’s inception, most have been ironed out. How do you feel about the three men arrested today for “lying to the FBI”?

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 9:58 PM

Cindy Munford,

I haven’t been following that case.

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 10:01 PM

TXUS on September 20, 2009 at 9:48 PM

I think if we make our feelings known in serious but for the most part polite ways, especially with continued large numbers, we can indeed change to tone. And maybe even win the argument. We still have to deal with the fact that there will always be those who overstep and that the media will zero in on them but we just have to work with that.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:03 PM

Fix that! Upstater and I both want to talk to you…

ladyingray on September 20, 2009 at 9:49 PM

Oh no. You guys aren’t members of the Obama’s Revolutionary Strike Force or something, are you?

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:04 PM

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 10:01 PM

Things are seldom as they seem and if we were privy to the information that Mr. Obama sees every morning, I think we would be a lot more forgiving.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:05 PM

We don’t own Iraqi airspace. Iraq is a sovereign country. For someone involved in international affairs, he doesn’t know much about international affairs

erakis on September 20, 2009 at 9:54 PM

Well, since we’re going to attack one ally, why not drop a few bombs on another while we’re there?

I mean, Democrats have always advocated kicking our allies in the crouch while being lickspittle manservants to our enemies, so why not the two ‘fer.

This worthless, corrupt, amoral and incompetent retread from the entirely regrettable Carter “administration” would most certainly agree.

NoDonkey on September 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM

Lox (through Cindy) –

Please get well soon, my Norwegian friend. Your wit and gentle good humor is missed during these trying times. Please know that you are in our thoughts and prayers.

kingsjester on September 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 8:53 PM

Perhaps the real question is, why isn’t Sheehan outside Nancy Pelosi’s house, protesting?

Lourdes on September 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM

I haven’t been following that case. Because it doesn’t trash the United States.

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 10:01 PM

thomasaur on September 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM

You have to wonder why this interview was given/published on Rosh Hashana, where he is talking about starting a war with Israel. To disrespect Jews?

Blake on September 20, 2009 at 9:01 PM

I always like having a ‘Well Duh’ moment every day. Thanks.

Blacksmith8 on September 20, 2009 at 10:08 PM

Oh no. You guys aren’t members of the Obama’s Revolutionary Strike Force or something, are you?

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:04 PM

Let’s me and you get off our butt’s and get a facebook page. I have no idea how to do it, but I’ll figure it out.

Hopefully Ladyingray can show us the way once we get there.

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Well, Now I know for sure where Mika gets her intelligence and grace from. By the way, there are biblical consequences for not supporting Israel (Genesis 12: 1-3).

kingsjester on September 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM

kingsjester on September 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM

He actually commented on this thread, I am very hopeful that he is perking up.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Thanks. These are very confusing times around here.

kingsjester on September 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM

You all might find this interview with Ziggy interesting in this context, not wanting us to fall for the same trap we set for the Russians in Afganistan…
The Grand Chessboard...Which I find equally interesting …
When you consider who invented Chess…

jerrytbg on September 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM

Cindy Munford,

I doubt it. That’s why I support a fully 100% transparent government.

Actually we should just get rid of the Federal Government, but if we’re going to keep it we may as well open the CIA’s and Federal Reserve’s books along with other government agencies. See what kind of skull duggery they’re up too.

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Soon as I have some time.
I should be going over blueprints right now,but here I am on this thing. Freerepublic and Large Hollywood were never this much fun.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:16 PM

Well, when have you known a plant of any type to have a brain?

Cindy Munford,

+++You are hot tonight lady!!!

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 10:16 PM

Holder’s investigation of the CIA is probably pointless since you mention that transparency issue. The CIA has already destroyed the interrogation tapes because they thought it could be used against them in court.

They’re kind of an above the law organization.

Holder should just skip prosecuting the CIA for now, and go after the Gonzo 6 instead.

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 10:17 PM

You all might find this interview with Ziggy interesting…
Draw your own conclusions ….The Grand Chessboard….

jerrytbg on September 20, 2009 at 10:18 PM

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM

If you can figure out how to get on this blog, you can figure out FB–or if I can figure it out–you can! Heh…

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 10:19 PM

At this point, I’m very confused about US foreign policy and many policies. Must do more reading and make certain who’s flying through who’s airspace and who’s getting shot down.

A mystery within a conundrum within a blog.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 10:21 PM

Binyam, innocent man who endured 7 years of Bush-era peniis and scrtum torture, launches legal effort”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/05/binyam-mohamed-guantanamo-evidence-photographs

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 9:49 PM

Have to pay big money for that kind of treatment in DC. /s

coyoterex on September 20, 2009 at 10:23 PM

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 10:16 PM

That was Lanceman replying to me. Scared me because I didn’t know what the WTH I was talking about in that quote.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:24 PM

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:24 PM

That’s the last time I reply to two different people in one post;)

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:26 PM

US ships – even, or perhaps especially, intelligence gathering ones – need to identify themselves when they are in the waters offshore a belligerent force during a war.

ProfessorMiao on September 20, 2009 at 7:59 PM

The Liberty did identify itself. In fact, the Israeli Order of Battle map had the Liberty present and its course recorded. At some point, according to the Isrealis, it was removed from the map, and that made it (according to them) a valid target. Their claim is that the Liberty “disappeared”. Since we didn’t have stealth ships back then, the method of the disappearance was one of two possibilities — either the Liberty changed course in a manner inconsistent with its capabilities, or the Israelis flubbed it and removed a marker from the map which they shouldn’t have. [The Israelis officially acknowledged in their apology that they knew about the ship and attacked it in error.]

With respect to the Liberty being able to tell the Israelis who they were after the attack began, the radio antenna which they would have used was disabled on one of the first strafing runs (which machine-gunned guys sunbathing on the quarterdeck). One of the Liberty’s crew earned a Silver Star by climbing up onto the radio mast and re-enabling the antenna while the under attack.

This follow-up story is worth reading:

The transcripts Block remembered seeing “were teletypes, way beyond Top Secret. Some of the pilots did not want to attack,” Block said. “The pilots said, ‘This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?’

“And ground control came back and said, ‘Yes, follow orders.’”

And for those who immediately caught something above, the answer is “Yes, there are classification levels beyond DOD Top Secret”; the second question cuts to the core of assertions by various folk here that fealty to an ally would prevent us from attacking vessels of that ally: If the Israeli pilots initiated and continued an attack on an American ship based on “following orders”, would our pilots do any less if ordered to attack an Israeli asset?

unclesmrgol on September 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 10:19 PM

I set up a page, I have no idea where to go from here.

My facebook name is “Knucklehead Parker”

Help, pass the word on….

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 10:31 PM

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:26 PM

Oh, don’t worry about it, I am known far and wide for my interesting formatting skills.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:34 PM

jerrytbg on September 20, 2009 at 10:18 PM

Interesting article. Poor Zig, he writes his own revisionist history, to make himself look better, and ends up looking like even more of a jackass.

Vashta.Nerada on September 20, 2009 at 10:35 PM

Lox,
Try here and here and here…Although the last link…well…consider the source…but interesting reading none the less.

jerrytbg on September 20, 2009 at 10:36 PM

That’s the last time I reply to two different people in one post;)

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:26 PM

Just talk with me, then. We can talk about Jimmy Carter. How the NSA rhymes with Hey. Shooting. Downing. Israelis. (And you know Israel has a desert so at least some Israelis must be hot.) The Jets. How are they doing, by the way? Fly overs. Iraq. Attacks. Iran. And some big new guy with for too many z’s in his name.

Nothing else, please.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 10:36 PM

Vashta.Nerada on September 20, 2009 at 10:35 PM

Yes the man is insane…

jerrytbg on September 20, 2009 at 10:37 PM

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 10:36 PM

The National Security Adviser for Pres. Carter thinks that the United States should shoot down Israeli jets if Israel attempts to take out Iran’s nuclear capabilities. And he justifies this because the jets would have to fly through Iraq’s airspace which he is classifying as U.S. airspace. I guess he is happy the U.S. went into Iraq after all.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:43 PM

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:24 PM

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:26 PM

Okay, my cheeks are hurting from smiling and chortling!

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 10:44 PM

I doubt it. That’s why I support a fully 100% transparent government.

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM

You mean one that doesn’t send a 1500 page bill to the floor and pass it the next day and sign it into law the day after that?

Or are you talking about a Government that lets normal people read classified stuff — when it suits them?

Or one that reveals fully the measures it has in place to protect its citizens?

What kind of transparent Government do you really mean, spathi?

unclesmrgol on September 20, 2009 at 10:44 PM

My facebook name is “Knucklehead Parker”

Help, pass the word on….

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 10:31 PM

I would’ve gone with ‘Parallel Parker’.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:45 PM

Or are you talking about a Government that lets normal people read classified stuff — when it suits them?

Yes, all government secrets. All military plans. Everything is open book.

I certainly support that.

Then again. Then again would we make all the IRS info public too since that has personal stuff?

Hmmm, well we’d have to get rid of the IRS first.

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 10:47 PM

It could be me, but after the past week I feel like it’s 1979 again.

Bosox04 on September 20, 2009 at 10:47 PM

unclesmrgol on September 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM

Israel had absolutely no reason to intentionally attack a US spy ship, using up limited IAF resourses in a full scale war – if the ship was doing what we are told it did.

If you were to claim they have done so intentionally, it was because they must have had a good reason to believe the ship was doing funny business which, mildly put, did not coincide well with Israeli war interests. And this is, perhaps, why the secrecy is so great from the US side.

So, tell me. Which is which?

Aristotle on September 20, 2009 at 10:48 PM

What kind of transparent Government do you really mean, spathi?

unclesmrgol on September 20, 2009 at 10:44 PM

The kind that you can see through, unless it gets smudged.
These are just words… the meaning isn’t as important as the intent.

massrighty on September 20, 2009 at 10:48 PM

And some big new guy with for too many z’s in his name.

Nothing else, please.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 10:36 PM

That would be some big new breeze in skis.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:49 PM

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 10:31 PM

You can find me easily on Allahpundit Fan Club page:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=676992053#/group.php?gid=73590404687&ref=ts
I will try to find you.

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 10:49 PM

It could be me, but after the past week I feel like it’s 1979 again.

Bosox04 on September 20, 2009 at 10:47 PM

1972 for me.
(Got salmonella in mexico that year)

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:50 PM

I found you! Holy crap!

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM

That would be some big new breeze in skis.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:49 PM

Yes, it would.
I’d pushed this man, and his reckless “see, I’m not Kissinger” foreign policies, into the back corner of my mind, where I keep the bad stuff.

Now, he’s back.
And I can’t drink enough to get rid of him.

massrighty on September 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM

At this point, I’m very confused about US foreign policy and many policies. Must do more reading and make certain who’s flying through who’s airspace and who’s getting shot down.
A mystery within a conundrum within a blog.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 10:21 PM

Simple, Lox. Our current foreign policy is nothing more than an extension of our domestic policy: Destroy the machine that has produced more individual economic and political freedom than the world has ever known.

In other words, you “re-make” this nation, you “re-make” the world.

In the meantime, you make this nation more vulnerable to attacks from without.

And, then, you have your perfect storm.

TXUS on September 20, 2009 at 10:53 PM

Now, he’s back.
And I can’t drink enough to get rid of him.

massrighty on September 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM

A nice shot of Rummy will cure what ails ya.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:55 PM

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 10:31 PM

Don’t take it personally that I don’t do the facebook thing. Lox has tried to talk me into the Allah gang but for some reason it feels odd to me. You wouldn’t believe how long it took me to get a cellphone.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

TXUS on September 20, 2009 at 10:53 PM

*Sigh, and I was in such a good mood.*

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

And that’s Rummy, not Romney.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

TXUS on September 20, 2009 at 10:53 PM

I fervently pray that you are wrong.
But, I fear that you are right.

massrighty on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Nah…MooseBurgers!!!!

jerrytbg on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

And that’s Rummy, not Romney.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

I miss Rummy, for his bluntness.
And, by God, you knew who he thought were our friends and allies in the world.

massrighty on September 20, 2009 at 10:57 PM

That would be some big new breeze in skis.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:49 PM

Fine. Have it your way. Just as long as it’s flying over our air space in Iraq, let’s shoot it down.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 10:58 PM

The kind that you can see through, unless it gets smudged.
These are just words… the meaning isn’t as important as the intent.

Good point Massrighty.

Nonetheless, the freedom of information act has helped get a lot of good info out of the government. No reason not to try to make as much of it transparent as possible.

I think we should declassify everything in the U.S. military and the CIA both.

But back to your point, that’s why we should not allow the government to have a monopoly on the use of force.

That’s the real problem here.

Just as we need competing currencies, it would be best to have competing governments too that are not based on geography but more like clubs you join like the ancient Ireland model.

Howeverm you can’t get everything you want. It’s more about trying to push the country in the Libertarian direction although this is apparently impossible as demonstrated by Ronald Reagan who made the government worse than when he came in yet he is hailed as a supposed conservative.

Spathi on September 20, 2009 at 10:58 PM

I think we should declassify everything in the U.S. military and the CIA both.

That would end UFOology as we now it…; ) lol!

jerrytbg on September 20, 2009 at 11:02 PM

know

jerrytbg on September 20, 2009 at 11:03 PM

I would’ve gone with ‘Parallel Parker’.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 10:45 PM

You would have gone with Governor Patterson in a dress. Hopefully, you would have found out before it was too late.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 11:10 PM

You wouldn’t believe how long it took me to get a cellphone.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Well I had a text message sent to my cell phone to set this thing up………and I don’t know how to get to it…..Duh.

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 11:12 PM

The National Security Adviser for Pres. Carter thinks that the United States should shoot down Israeli jets if Israel attempts to take out Iran’s nuclear capabilities. And he justifies this because the jets would have to fly through Iraq’s airspace which he is classifying as U.S. airspace. I guess he is happy the U.S. went into Iraq after all.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:43 PM

Considering that the Iraqi Air Force currently has five aircraft with strike capability, and all those aircraft are in a ground support role, it would be up to the United States to protect Iraq’s sovereignty in the north, where the Israelis would fly through to get into Iran’s nuclear development areas.

Note that a flight path from Israel to Iran which transits Iraq also requires the Israeli aircraft to transit either Turkey, Syria, or Jordan. If aircraft are used for the strike, and if Turkey is used for the transit, there’s no reason to fly over a large area of Iraq — most of the flight can take place in Turkey. It should be noted that Turkey has a strong defense relationship with Isreal — the Israelis have several contracts for modernizing the Turkish army and air force, and Turkish pilots regularly train in Israel.

The other possibility is that the US turns a blind eye, and, when questioned, claims that we saw nothing although we watched astutely; such a solution allows us to make the claim that we properly protected Iraqi sovereignty.

My suspicions are that the trip will be a one-way trip if it takes place, so as to allow maximum time over target — the planes may ditch or land along the Iranian coast and the pilots be picked up by the Israeli Navy. The plan may also involve the capture and holding by the Isrealis via naval action of one or more coastal airfields in Iran suitable to allow the Israeli pilots to land their planes safely and then be transferred out of country.

unclesmrgol on September 20, 2009 at 11:14 PM

You would have gone with Governor Patterson Palin in a dress.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 11:10 PM

FIFY

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:14 PM

Knucklehead on September 20, 2009 at 10:31 PM

Don’t take it personally that I don’t do the facebook thing. Lox has tried to talk me into the Allah gang but for some reason it feels odd to me. You wouldn’t believe how long it took me to get a cellphone.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Bet you didn’t know that Allah had a gang before this. Yes. It’s true. Allah’s gang is in Iran, and by proxy controls the airspace over Iraq and stops all Israeli plains from attacking Iran.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM

Night folks, it’s 10pm here in iowa , and I have to get ready for the night shift at the hospital. Maybe see ya later if its a slow night!

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM

You would have gone with Governor Patterson in a dress. Hopefully, you would have found out before it was too late.

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 11:10 PM

Sounds like you feel a might bit better.
; – )

thomasaur on September 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM

Loxodonta on September 20, 2009 at 11:10 PM

I hope Lanceman enjoys your banter, he will need to replace Upstater85 who was banned the other night. Sorry, I know that you two liked to have verbal jousting matches. We will have to pray for an open registration soon. Good grief, I can’t believe I actually keyed that out loud.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM

You wouldn’t believe how long it took me to get a cellphone.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Me too, my kids finally made me do it!

lovingmyUSA on September 20, 2009 at 11:16 PM

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM

Wondering out loud, hypothetically, if a poster was banned, then rejoined through OR, and alluded to their former ‘self’, would said poster be re-banned if they stayed within the guidelines?

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:18 PM

I fervently pray that you are wrong.
But, I fear that you are right.

massrighty on September 20, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Me, too. But can’t write it off to mere incompetence… wish I could.

It’s a design, been years in the making.

Used to laugh such ideas off, as fictional tin-foil hat stuff. But, there’s no other way to explain what they’re doing.

TXUS on September 20, 2009 at 11:20 PM

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM

I can’t compete with the young Upstater. He’s much more well-read than I.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:20 PM

unclesmrgol on September 20, 2009 at 11:14 PM

I have to say that the plan you outline sounds awesome. I don’t want you to think that I am unaware that our military is the dominant force in Iraq today but it still seems so presumptuous of this clown to suggest such a thing.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:21 PM

Jimmy Carter is a man who qualifies to be into jail, along with BO, as traitors to the US. In neither case is there any question. No non-evil person disagrees with this assessment.

proconstitution on September 20, 2009 at 11:23 PM

If there is one thing that would guarantee a single term for TAO, is would be to order the military to shoot down Israeli aircraft, if the military obeyed the order…

JIMV on September 20, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:18 PM

I truly don’t know. I only know of one person who came back using their original name. There was much pleading and groveling by commenters here on his behalf but I don’t know if it was necessary. I won’t mention his name because I don’t want him to know that we really like him.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:24 PM

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:24 PM

No I mean like this:
“Hello people. I’m deadatlife, formally getalife. I have seen the errors of my ways and promise to be a good poster from now on…
Something like that.
Upstater getting banned is bogus.
But I don’t make the rules.
If I did, bye bye, Annin, KrabKraws, and a few others. But not cur6.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:31 PM

formally=formerly

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:33 PM

we could have done worse

How could we have done worse?

Brezinsky = Obama

Obama = Brezinsky

Brezinsky is the man who handpicked and prepared Obama for his presidency and is his main “advisor”.

MaximusConfessor on September 20, 2009 at 11:35 PM

Just heard…I want UPstater85 and Sven back!!!
They make me laugh and help me end the day with
a smile which has been hard to do lately. CJ
and the other intentional attacks to various sites has
really done a number on us. It is just what they wanted
and once again we will suffer. Knowing this, I
can’t believe such a good thing is coming to an end.

Another defeat!

spacewife on September 20, 2009 at 11:37 PM

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:31 PM

No, I don’t think there have been any trolls who have admitted their former names. There are people here that are really good at recognizing their writing styles so it usually isn’t long before they are known. The really crazy thing is that several of them have been banned multiple times for writing almost the exact same thing. I don’t know why that shocks me, they aren’t very imaginative when they comment, why would they branch out when it comes to insults?

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:40 PM

MB4 got to come back. How?

spacewife on September 20, 2009 at 11:43 PM

spacewife on September 20, 2009 at 11:37 PM

I don’t know if I feel quite as downhearted as you but it is funny that AnninCa said that HotAir would be gone in six months. Oh, I am being silly, since when have I ever thought she was incisive? We are experiencing strange times.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:44 PM

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:40 PM

Except Upstater and Sven weren’t trolls.
I’ll bet Upstater has never even heard of ‘The Three Billy Goats Gruff’.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:44 PM

Wow, Zbiggie, go for it. IMHO we’re long overdue for a realignment of the American Jewish vote. This could be the ticket. Esp since once Iran finds out that Israeli jets were making their move, they will retaliate for what was about to happen, even if it didn’t. So on top of now being responsible for who knows how many Israeli civilian deaths, Zbiggie would also get credit for the being the bozo to finally wake up the American Jewish community that they ought to have been voting GOP for some time now. Go ahead Zbigge–make our day.

smellthecoffee on September 20, 2009 at 11:44 PM

spacewife on September 20, 2009 at 11:43 PM

I assume that he just signed up again at the last open registration. Although I will admit there was much politicking for his return I don’t know if it was necessary.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:46 PM

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:44 PM

I don’t know, like you said, he’s pretty well read. You are right, they were definitely not trolls and I can’t say what new line they crossed. Although I believe sven was trying to be obnoxiously positive in all his posts about Mr. Obama. It might have been an irony ban, that’s what happened to MB4. I never thought we had out of control commenters, maybe this is the downside of success for HotAir. If I were ever banned, I would not register again, I would be so embarrassed.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:53 PM

Good night everyone. Sweet dreams.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:56 PM

Liberty in reverse. I can’t believe I even ever saw that ship uttered by anybody remotely mainstream. Very interesting.

LevStrauss on September 20, 2009 at 11:56 PM

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:53 PM

I know what Sven said to get banned. I was there.
Upstater, I don’t know.

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:57 PM

Lanceman on September 20, 2009 at 11:57 PM

I won’t ask how, I don’t want to take the chance of you inadvertently crossing the line it the telling.

Cindy Munford on September 21, 2009 at 12:00 AM

Night, khans, gotta go to bed. Work in the morning.
Someone has to pay the taxes in this dump.
Lox Lox, I hope you feel better, tomorrow.

Lanceman on September 21, 2009 at 12:03 AM

When Geis protested that the Liberty was under attack and needed help, Hart said, McNamara retorted that “President [Lyndon] Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors.”

McNamara, who is now 91, told the Tribune he has “absolutely no recollection of what I did that day,” except that “I have a memory that I didn’t know at the time what was going on.”

The Johnson administration did not publicly dispute Israel’s claim that the attack had been nothing more than a disastrous mistake. But internal White House documents obtained from the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library show that the Israelis’ explanation of how the mistake had occurred was not believed.

I have this funny feeling in my stomach that LBJ and crew maybe holding back on the WH part of this story and that the Israelis probably have tapes between a PM and a President with a PM requesting that our ship back off and that LBJ being the Texan that he was, didn’t comply.

Gotcha tapes. Only the soldiers lose.

journeyintothewhirlwind on September 21, 2009 at 12:03 AM

My question to the Jews in the U.S.:

Why on earth do you keep voting in these creeps?

I can’t find a reason. Maybe you can tell me?

Chaz706 on September 21, 2009 at 12:32 AM

If you were to claim they have done so intentionally, it was because they must have had a good reason to believe the ship was doing funny business which, mildly put, did not coincide well with Israeli war interests. And this is, perhaps, why the secrecy is so great from the US side.

So, tell me. Which is which?

Aristotle on September 20, 2009 at 10:48 PM

Neither. If the US sends an intelligence ship out which the Israelis believe is capable of ferreting out things the Israelis don’t want known, even if that is not the ship’s mission, then the “funny business” would be totally on the Isreaeli side. Consider the various events with respect to Israeli actions on the battlefield which happened shortly after the Liberty incident, and you get a possible casus belli for the Israelis against the Liberty. In particular, examine the Israeli violation of the cease fire to which their government has supposedly agreed in order to attack Syria and gain the Golan Heights. [A good move by Israel, given what the Syrians had used the Golan Heights for prior to the war, but one which the Israelis may have wanted to screen from US or Russian eyes until it was complete.]

Whether intent was present or not, the Israelis failed to properly identify their target before opening fire.

Of course, the Israelis deny this — here’s the Israeli description of the action, which was published to rebut contentions that the attack was intentional, and to lay all blame for the attack at the feet of the Americans. The tone of the white paper by the IDF is certainly less than conciliatory, and may be a reason why the Liberty crew feels as strongly as they now apparently do.

Of course, if the Liberty was intentionally attacked by the Israelis, I would expect the Obama Administration to release such evidence ASAP — they are certainly not friends of Israel.

As for me, I count Israel as an ally, but they have their own interests which occasionally run counter to ours, and, as your comment/challenge to me indicates, you think so too.

That said, I’d certainly cheer them on if they went after Iran, because I think our interests are being better watched out for by the Israelis at this point than our own Administration.

unclesmrgol on September 21, 2009 at 1:08 AM

I have to say that the plan you outline sounds awesome. I don’t want you to think that I am unaware that our military is the dominant force in Iraq today but it still seems so presumptuous of this clown to suggest such a thing.

Cindy Munford on September 20, 2009 at 11:21 PM

If I can think of it, the Iranians probably have too. I’m betting the Israelis have to be even more awesome. We’ll know if it ever comes to pass.

unclesmrgol on September 21, 2009 at 1:12 AM

I have this funny feeling in my stomach that LBJ and crew maybe holding back on the WH part of this story and that the Israelis probably have tapes between a PM and a President with a PM requesting that our ship back off and that LBJ being the Texan that he was, didn’t comply.

Gotcha tapes. Only the soldiers lose.

journeyintothewhirlwind on September 21, 2009 at 12:03 AM

If the Israelis were to do this, and it ever became public, US public support for Israel would dry up so fast you’d think massive global warming had suddenly occurred. Consider that such a scenario gives the US an amazing amount of leverage over Israeli actions, of the sort that seems to be missing.

Hence, I doubt any such recording exists, either on our or their sides.

Besides, that’s just the type of story the Carter Administration would have loved to make public.

unclesmrgol on September 21, 2009 at 1:20 AM

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