Rasmussen: ObamaCare more unpopular than ever

posted at 12:16 pm on September 16, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

And on the seventh day since Barack Obama gave The Word to a joint session Congress, the voters have seen ObamaCare and pronounced it … not good.   Rasmussen now reports that opposition to ObamaCare has hit its highest level yet at 55%, with its low equaling its August nadir:

One week after President Obama’s speech to Congress, opposition to his health care reform plan has reached a new high of 55%. The latest Rasmussen Reports daily tracking poll shows that just 42% now support the plan, matching the low first reached in August.

A week ago, 44% supported the proposal and 53% were opposed. Following the speech last Wednesday night intended to relaunch the health care initiative, support for the president’s effort bounced as high as 51% (see day-by-day numbers). But the new numbers suggest that support for health care reform is now about the same as it was in August.

Why have voters so firmly rejected the new appeal from Obama and the Democrats?  For one thing, it’s not terribly new.  Obama has not offered any new arguments for months on health-care reform.  In fact, his White House press office announced that Obama would have his own plan launched before the speech, which has yet to materialize.

Democrats have offered a new argument, though, one that has been firmly rejected:

While some Democrats have charged that opposition to the president’s plan is based upon racism, just 12% of voters agree.

If anyone wonders why the ObamaCare proposals have run into so much firm opposition, one only needs to look to this argument.  Democrats can’t understand why Americans don’t want government in charge of the most personal decisions in our lives, and therefore assume we’re all just a bunch of racists.  This argument fails to explain why the same idea was just as unpopular 16 years ago when the Clintons tried forcing it on the US.  More to the point, it insults the very people Democrats hope to convince.

However, it is nice to see that Jimmy Carter is now identified clearly as a fringe lunatic.  Nice.


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Seriously, don’t reasonable, middle-class blacks need to get out from the middle of this? The elite Dems and black Democratic politicians can easily lead ACORN-level-of-intelligence blacks over the cliff, but the rest need to come to their senses.

Otherwise, as Walter Williams wrote in March 2008, Obama is going to set some blacks back for a generation.

BuckeyeSam on September 16, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Let’s ask AFROLIB!!

Oh, wait……..

BigWyo on September 16, 2009 at 12:56 PM

So, as I said after Teddy’s death. It looks like Obama got the same bounce as does an Oldsmobile does off the muddy bottom of a lake.

ted c on September 16, 2009 at 12:19 PM

More like a “dead cat” bounce.

belad on September 16, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Headline: Barack Obama has turned millions of non-racist Americans into racists in under one year.

Elizabetty on September 16, 2009 at 12:21 PM

That’s the meat on the plate right there.

Mirimichi on September 16, 2009 at 12:58 PM

Here’s the PDF file of Sen. Max Baucus’ health care plan. The Senate Finance Committee will begin work on it next week.

About the only thing bipartisan about this plan is the opposition. No Republicans have signed on and Sen. Jay Rockefeller won’t support it.

Sen. Tom Coburn, M.D., and Sen. John Barrasso, M.D., would like your questions about the Baucus bill and health care reform for a future episode of “The Senate Doctors Show.” You can leave them on Facebook, Twitter, or e-mail.

Sean Hackbarth
Senate Republican Conference

seanhackbarth on September 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM

This Presidency and Democratic Congress is done. They’ve gone beyond the brink and they have two choices. They can wait like lambs for the slaughter that’s coming next year or they can revert to corruption at the polls as a means to hold onto power.

I don’t think the latter will work, especially if we get ACORN off the taxpayer payroll.

They have earned this by pushing a socialist agenda on the American people and then by calling the people “Nazis” when they opposed it. They are now engaged in “scortched earth” political tactics by resorting to the last losing argument they have – racism. Since the charges of “Nazism” and “Astroturf” only served as gasoline on the fire of the liberty movement – I’ll guarantee you the “racism” charges will ensure that Ogabe falls even more in the polls.

The argument they are making is that no black man can ever be elected President. Presidents MUST be questioned but if you cannot question a black President without being called a racist – then that means blacks should not be elected President. It’s up to WE CONSERVATIVES to stand tall and disprove this notion. All Presidents, black or white – are big boys and can stand up to the criticism – and they’re going to get it. There’s no standing down here Congressman Clyburn, President Jimmah … We’re pressing on – because CONSERVATIVES stand for equality of all men regardless of color.

HondaV65 on September 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM

HondaV65 on September 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Hear, hear!

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 1:02 PM

The new bill looks great to me. No pre-existing coverage limits, no public plan, no abortion coverage, individual requirements to have insurance to keep overall costs down, what’s wrong with it? (Other than it wasn’t written by Republicans).

Sean, I’m writing my GOP representatives again and telling them to vote for the bill.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:05 PM

I wonder what Dr.Lamont Hill will have to say about this?I’m sure he’ll turn up somewhere on Fox tonight.

heshtesh on September 16, 2009 at 1:06 PM

If I were black I’d be insulted that liberals continue to treat me differently based on the color of my skin.

SouthernGent on September 16, 2009 at 1:06 PM

OBAMA NEEDS TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE

Can’t we at least assume that the teleprompter is color-blind?

The true shame here is the fact that Obama has said NOTHING in regard to these racial charges. This tactic was also used effectively during Obama’s campaign run to silence his critics or subvert the vetting process.

How much longer the general voting public will put up with this disgusting charade that “we can’t deal with the president’s agenda because of the color of his skin” is not only wearing thin, the left is basically running out of legitimate arguments to sustain their mission to place this nation in generational debt. The folks in the tea parties did not march on Washington to discuss the skin color of our president, and the president knows this. If he really means to show that his campaign promise of bi-partisan unity is not another slogan void of substance or human dignity, Mr. Obama needs to step up to the plate and put an end to these “calls of racism” to every challenge in his agenda. By his own silence on this issue, he is admitting to the public that they are ignorant and tolerant of this repulsive abomination. This American society, for the most part, has risen above, and looked past the color of a citizen’s skin. It is beneath the office of the President to use this as a tool for any purpose to deny its citizens their constitutional right of redress of grievances. How our President rises above this in the days ahead will shape the character of this office in the 21st century—-or, it could set us all back decades. This is not a choice, Mr. President—-this is your responsibility to your country and our children that are watching this unfold. Anything less is a complicit admission that you condone these despicable acts.

Rovin on September 16, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Geez, maybe next they can front Bill Ayers in support of the health care bill.

drjohn on September 16, 2009 at 1:08 PM

The argument they are making is that no black man can ever be elected President. Presidents MUST be questioned but if you cannot question a black President without being called a racist – then that means blacks should not be elected President. All Presidents, black or white – are big boys and can stand up to the criticism – and they’re going to get it.

HondaV65 on September 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Quote of the day, AP. Look no further.

RepubChica on September 16, 2009 at 1:09 PM

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:05 PM

Individual mandates are un-Constituional and un-American (aside from all of the other problems with this proposal). There is no getting around that. If someone doesn’t want to buy insurance, they cannot be forced to. They also cannot expect care to be paid for them.

Personal responsibility is what America is about and any infringement by the federal government into individual lives, like this, and encroachment upon the states’ powers over social issues such as health care, is in opposition to the Constitution, laws and traditions of America.

The federal government has NO BUSINESS in health care, other than making inter-state commerce of health insurance regular and available to all.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 1:11 PM

While some Democrats have charged that opposition to the president’s plan is based upon racism, just 12% of voters agree.

In addition to what has become my daily praise for Allah’s delicious new tone of voice, I have to say that this statistic is particularly satisfying to me.

Since we already know that the usual white lunatic liberal fringe (Jimmy C, Janeane the Skank, the entire MSNBC staff, etc.) is a part of that 12%, and since at least 13% of the U.S. population is black, then a good percentage of the black population is on record acknowledging that opposition to Obama is based on race.

I find this to be most encouraging.

Jaibones on September 16, 2009 at 1:11 PM

Jimmy Carter should be ashamed of playing the “race” card especially when he grew up in the South where “racism” did dominate the culture.

technopeasant on September 16, 2009 at 12:50 PM

I think the fact that Carter grew up in rural Georgia plays a very big part of how he views these issues. He’s not playing the race card as much as expressing the kind of white guilt that can only come from having lived the segregated lifestyle for years. It’s a viewpoint that is understandable but doesn’t resonate with most of America which is far more culturally diverse than anything in Jimmy Carter’s past or in his everyday world today. Carter sees the filthy liar’s success as too important to pay attention to policy failures.

Put another way, Carter is a well-intentioned idiot. Carter accuses dissenters of racism while failing to address the filthy liar’s 20 years of sitting in Jeramiah Wright’s racist church. Carter defends the filthy liar out of a viewpoint that is no longer relevant. The filthy liar is pure evil because of his ideology, agenda, and cadre of like-minded radicals. He has always relied on fools like Carter to give him credibility and cover.

highhopes on September 16, 2009 at 1:12 PM

Time for Obama, Axelrod, and Emmanuel to come come up with Plan B..oops, racism is Plan B. Plan C coming this weekend to a Sunday news show.

smartsy on September 16, 2009 at 1:13 PM

People are REALLY sensitive when you discuss race, which is why playing the race card works. Axelrod made his career out of this phenomenon. Ed Morrissey once jumped the troll-gun and kicked me out of TEMS once because of this phenomenon. People fall all over themselves to try not to look prejudice.

Simply put, prejudice is when you rather than judge a person on his/her merits, you give demerits just because of a person’s skin color. If you don’t hand out those demerits, and size up a person on a case by case basis, you are NOT prejudice, and you SHOULD ACCEPT THAT. If you don’t accept that, you are double thinking, and will continue to make errors because of over-compensation. A sleeze like Axelrod KNOWS this over-compensation factor and capitalizes on it.

This is not to say you don’t use common sense. If I took a walk through Harlem late at night in 1970, that would have been foolish. Not because of MY prejudice, but because of other’s. If I had a get even sort of attitude, I could BECOME prejudice, but each prejudiced person is guilty of prejudice on a case by case basis. Anyhow, that’s my view: it’s a matter of personal choice, and I choose to not generalize, because Martin Luther King was RIGHT. You can’t judge a race by the content of their character… you can only do that on a case by case basis.

Danzo on September 16, 2009 at 1:14 PM

If I were black I’d be insulted that liberals continue to treat me differently based on the color of my skin.

SouthernGent on September 16, 2009 at 1:06 PM

See my comment above, SG. Take heart! You would certainly hope to see more black voters slapping liberals, but…baby steps.

Jaibones on September 16, 2009 at 1:14 PM

I wonder what Dr.Lamont Hill will have to say about this?I’m sure he’ll turn up somewhere on Fox tonight.

heshtesh on September 16, 2009 at 1:06 PM

He was on Bill O last night. Did not pay attention.

He has blown lately. This upsets me. I have always thought of him as a pompous ass who is wrong or misinformed most of the time. But the attitude he has taken towards Beck (and by association, the tea party people) has been driving me nuts. Esp the 60,000 people claim and his focus on the nasty signs that I never saw one of even though I was there ALL DAY. I hardly watch him anymore, but he still is on my DVR. I may be removing him soon. Last straw, Billy boy.

Joe Caps on September 16, 2009 at 1:14 PM

HondaV65 on September 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Completely agree. And what the race pimps cannot fathom is that the more they trot out the race card, the more offended the good and decent people all over this country get. And their number just grows.

I haven’t seen the numbers but I’m wondering what percentage of the people who voted for Obama are in the 55% now opposing his HellCare plan. Are they racists, too?

What’s happening now, and it’s a good thing, is that the whole Democrat party is now but a caricature of good ole Jesse and Al.

TXUS on September 16, 2009 at 1:15 PM

When you demand we drink tea made with poison ivy, and then reheat it over and over,…it’s still not drinkable, except to OBama’s followers. But they will drink poison ivy tea even though its flavor clashes with the Kool-aid they’re drinking..

Don L on September 16, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Here is how Obama blew it: Many Americans who endured the pain of a rip-off recession now endure the pain of a rip-off recovery. For them, life under a

Democratic president and Congress means trading one rip-off for another, giving them neither hope, nor change, nor an end to their pain.
2008 was a 1932 moment. But the power of eloquence ends when the reality of people’s lives does not change. If a president reads a book about Franklin Roosevelt and then names Timothy Geithner to the Treasury, America gets Geithner, not Roosevelt, and more status quo, not change.

Schadenfreude on September 16, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Rovin on September 16, 2009 at 1:07 PM

*applause*

Joe Caps on September 16, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Put another way, Carter is a well-intentioned idiot.

highhopes on September 16, 2009 at 1:12 PM

I have to disagree. I haven’t seen any good intentions in Carter, at all. At best, he is self-serving, but I don’t even think he rises to that level. Carter wants to cause problems and fan the flames of racial animus.

If you listen to his Nobel acceptance (when he was given the award as nothing more than a slap at Bush – which the Nobel committee made obvious) then you hear where he’s really coming from. Good intentions are not part of his personality.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 1:17 PM

Romeo13 on September 16, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Definitely agree that his tarnish is wearing off…the term racist is losing it’s “punch”, we aren’t so afraid of that anymore.
After electing him, we now hate him because of his color?
No…because he is inept.
When Bush begin making mistakes, we didn’t hold back on him either…

right2bright on September 16, 2009 at 1:18 PM

You know why the recession isn’t over deficit is exploding? Racism.

lorien1973 on September 16, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Jaibones on September 16, 2009 at 1:18 PM

No wonder they’ve trotted out Carter. When a democrat polling firm (PPP) shows democrats losing the debate in New Jersey, they’ve simply just lost…

Barack Obama’s approval rating with likely voters for this fall’s election in New Jersey has sunk to just 45%, with 48% of voters disapproving of him.

The health care issue doesn’t seem to be doing him any favors in the state. Only 39% of voters say they support his plan while 50% are opposed.

SouthernGent on September 16, 2009 at 1:19 PM

If I were black I’d be insulted that liberals continue to treat me differently based on the color of my skin.

SouthernGent on September 16, 2009 at 1:06 PM

If you were black you wouldn’t exist…there are no black conservatives…

right2bright on September 16, 2009 at 1:19 PM

Calling people “terrorists” didn’t work for the Administration, so they played the Race Card. That didn’t work. What next? “Fascists”? Oh, wait…

kingsjester on September 16, 2009 at 12:24 PM

All the while wishing to snarl what they actually believe (it might still be testing poorly in their internal polling): “capitalists!”

Barnestormer on September 16, 2009 at 1:20 PM

heshtesh- I don’t know why they put this racist buffoon on t.v. He tries to sound so intelligent but makes no sense. What is his degree in. The AFLAC duck would be shaking his head after talking to this empty head.

rjoco1 on September 16, 2009 at 1:21 PM

The new bill looks great to me. No pre-existing coverage limits, no public plan, no abortion coverage, individual requirements to have insurance to keep overall costs down, what’s wrong with it? (Other than it wasn’t written by Republicans).

Sean, I’m writing my GOP representatives again and telling them to vote for the bill.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:05 PM

Go one better and ask them to vote for H.R. 3400, the Republican bill…it includes tort reform and selling insurance across state lines, even a little bonus to the liberals. It has where the cost of medical school will be reimbursed if they spend 5 years working within the program as a doctor for the uninsured.
H.R. 3400, I don’t know why conservatives don’t keep pressing for this.

right2bright on September 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Joe Caps on September 16, 2009 at 1:14

You are quite correct regarding Bill some of his opinion’s are becoming creepy,but i do enjoy watching the Dr. spewing the standard Dim’s talking point’s in a nice(CLEAN)cultured manner.

heshtesh on September 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Its amazing the way the libs just get more shrill in their insults of those who oppose them. What’s that supposed to do, convince people? “Oh, they called me a racist, I guess I’d better throw my analysis of the damaging effects of the health care bill out the window, and just support them so they won’t call me stupid, childish names.” Listen up, you idiots, almost nobody’s buying it.

The more they get behind, the more they ratchet up the mealy-mouthed denigration of ordinary citizens. This pattern of behavior can be observed on the leftist websites as well as from the politicians in Washington. I guess it makes them feel really smug and superior, and it’s a terrible weakness on their part, because we are now starting to see that it’s backfiring badly. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch.

mr.blacksheep on September 16, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Do any black people oppose health care? Is Mike Steele a racist for opposing Obama on health care?

hawksruleva on September 16, 2009 at 1:25 PM

If you were black you wouldn’t exist…there are no black conservatives…

right2bright on September 16, 2009 at 1:19 PM

Wait – he could be an “Uncle Tom” couldn’t he? Isn’t that how the left characterizes any black who happens to disagree with them?

hawksruleva on September 16, 2009 at 1:27 PM

heshtesh- I don’t know why they put this racist buffoon on t.v. He tries to sound so intelligent but makes no sense.

Yes. Mark Lamont Hill is an idiot.

What is his degree in.

rjoco1 on September 16, 2009 at 1:21 PM

African-American studies. He started at Temple, which had an absolutely notorious African-American studies department – as vitriolic and stupid as one could imagine. Now, he’s moved on to Columbia (that’s what TV appearances can do for people in the joke fields of academics). From Hill’s own site he describes an affiliated appointment “in African American Studies at the Institute for Research in African American Studies at Columbia University.”.

Hill’s whole life revolves about nothing but race.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 1:27 PM

there are no black conservatives…

right2bright on September 16, 2009 at 1:19 PM

So Thomas Sowell is just a figment of my imagination. Great!

MB4 on September 16, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Clearly Giggles needs to make another prime-time speech!

crazy_legs on September 16, 2009 at 1:29 PM

If those who oppose ObamaCare are racist, what were people called who opposed HillaryCare? Just curious.

varnson on September 16, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Clearly Giggles needs to make another prime-time speech!

crazy_legs on September 16, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Clearly Barack Obama should not be spending all his time buried in work at the White House. He needs to get out in the public eye more and talk to the American people once in a while. At least enough so that they can remember what he looks and sounds like anyway.

MB4 on September 16, 2009 at 1:33 PM

The problems with H.R. 3400 is (i) it doesn’t require insurers to eliminate pre-existing condition exclusions or prohibitions; (ii) it doesn’t require insureres to issue policies to people with pre-existing conditions or exclusions; (iii) it only provides a tax credit to poor people who are forced into the high risk pool, rather than poor people who can’t afford their employer’s insurance; (iv) it generally allows the purchase of insurance from out-of-state companies if your home state premiums are 10% higher than the national average (so you might not be able to access those out-of-state insurers, anyways); and (v) a group of doctors–not representatives of the US as a whole–would be able to recommend when non-economic damages (like pain and suffering) would be excluded.

There’s a significant number of problems with that bill. Do you want a group of doctors to be able to tell you that you didn’t have any pain and suffering worth anything in connection with an operation botched by one of their doctor-friends?

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM

I thought “beyond the pale” was related to the Pale region of Russia.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 12:47 PM

It can but its a later usage, try the link for a short description.

Speakup on September 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Here’s a link to the summary for HR 3400:

http://covertheuninsured.org/legislative_bill/hr-3400-price.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Keep them kooks coming President Obama. What other kooks can you dig up to help build ‘support’ for healthcare plans? Keep them coming baby. Everytime you do, the polls show your efforts are not producing the desired results. Have you figured out yet that such efforts are perhaps hurting you?

Keep saying the same old rhetoric with different spin or poll tested key words. Just keep it up. They are not helping either.

One final thing. When the polls drop, blame the GOP, conservatives, the town hall mobs, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Foxnews cause that’s not helping you one bit either is it? What’s the term in Alyinski’s book for radicals? Nominalize, neutralize? I don’t remember. Maybe, just maybe he was terribly wrong with his tactics. They aren’t helping you a smidge.

The people are wise on you and they want none of the remaking of America that you have been proposing.

shick on September 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:05 PM

So you actually believe the budget estimates, that the federal government can hold down costs while providing quality care and that allowing people to wait to buy insurance until they’re sick, is workable?

Do you also believe in unicorns and the fairies?

NoDonkey on September 16, 2009 at 1:37 PM

Have the ocean levels receded and has the planet been healed yet?

Wonderboy can’t even manage his own party with huge majorities in both houses.

Will the lying Hawaiian admit he is not up to the job and resign?We will offer him a very nice retirement package.

DeweyWins on September 16, 2009 at 1:37 PM

The problems with H.R. 3400 is (i) it doesn’t require insurers to eliminate pre-existing condition exclusions or prohibitions; (ii) it doesn’t require insureres to issue policies to people with pre-existing conditions or exclusions;

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Are you nuts? I bet you want life insurance comapnies to be banned from taking age into account. Please tell me how an insurance company can live when it is forced to sell insurance for a few thousand dollars to someone who knowingly has a disease that is going to cost $400,000? That’s is just retarded.

Please tell me how this works in your fantasy world.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Then we wouldn’t have had Reagan. By the way, how did Carter get elected Governor?

Tommy_G on September 16, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Jimmah appealed to the supporters of term-limited Gov. Lester Maddox, who had initially gained appeal to segregationists by famously closing down his restaurant rather than serving black people. Part of the reason that worked is that Maddox decided to run for Lt. Governor, though the two were not friendly at all.

Quite a change from Jimmah’s claims of being post-racial when he ran for President.

teke184 on September 16, 2009 at 1:39 PM

I remember ( Carter ) should have done the Ludes and bad acid.

heshtesh on September 16, 2009 at 12:41 PM

I wish I did ludes and bad acid back then so I wouldn’t remember the nightmare. Get on the gas line at 5:00 a.m.

NJ Red on September 16, 2009 at 1:40 PM

There is something like 30 to 35 percent of the electorate that is hard left and always votes Donkey. Only 12% believe this bunk. Thus only about 35%of the reliable left are believers.

Ever since I first heard of the peanut king, when he was still governor, I have wondered if he had lost a few marbles or was simply stupid.

burt on September 16, 2009 at 1:40 PM

How can opposition to something that doesn’t exist be racist?

rock the casbah on September 16, 2009 at 1:41 PM

How does African-American studies make one an expert on race. I bet he also went to school on the affirmative action program which didn’t cost him one nickel. The rest of us worked our way through college and then paid off loans for several years thereafter.

rjoco1 on September 16, 2009 at 1:44 PM

They can wait like lambs for the slaughter that’s coming next year or they can revert to corruption at the polls as a means to hold onto power.

But corruption at the polls has been the plan at least since 2000. They finally won elections in 2006/08 so why would they change? They have the process down pat – the real question is how long before they do not need elections at all? (see Cuba, Venezuela and efforts in Costa Rica).

jerseyman on September 16, 2009 at 1:45 PM

NJ Red on September 16, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Odd and even gas days . . .

If the fanatics in the Obama Administration have their way, we’ll peddle or walk everywhere we go while they whisk around in limosines and jets.

That’s how totalitarians like it.

NoDonkey on September 16, 2009 at 1:48 PM

The problems with H.R. 3400 is (i) it doesn’t require insurers to eliminate pre-existing condition exclusions or prohibitions; (ii) it doesn’t require insureres to issue policies to people with pre-existing conditions or exclusions;

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM

How about you and your friends starting up an insurance company that charges no higher premiums for people with pre-existing conditions. You could do it for home and car insurance as well as medical.

MB4 on September 16, 2009 at 1:50 PM

MB4 on September 16, 2009 at 1:50 PM

Jimbo3 doesn’t like to actually respond to any points. I understand, as his ridiculous positions are indefensible.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 1:59 PM

How about you and your friends starting up an insurance company that charges no higher premiums for people with pre-existing conditions. You could do it for home and car insurance as well as medical.

–That’s the reason for the individual mandates.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Hey, Mr. Wilson! Thank you for further illuminating this excremental piece of legislation.

unclesmrgol on September 16, 2009 at 2:08 PM

The Democrats are stuck in an echo chamber having fun listening to themselves!

Rndguy on September 16, 2009 at 2:15 PM

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM

I can understand an insurance company’s position about “pre-existing conditions”. Let’s say that you are in a car accident and do damage to your car and someone else’s car. Do you then call an insurance company and ask for liability insurance and also ask for a very low deductible on the collision insurance? How about you are diagnosed with cancer and it has progressed so far, that you won’t be able to survive. Are you going to call an insurance comapny and ask for life insurance and might as well have double indemnity?

I do think that the pre-existing condition argument might have some merit to it though. If you have a bad heart, do you get rejected for all other health insurance? I don’t know. Just asking.

Mirimichi on September 16, 2009 at 2:33 PM

bilateral jimmy carter screen shots. I shall now be forced to toss my grits.

bloggless on September 16, 2009 at 2:35 PM

Mirmichi, generally you will be rejected for individual (not group) health insurance. I have been told I will be rejected because I had a small mole which turned out to be skin cancer (the best type) totally removed from my nose three years ago. I can buy it at 200% of individual health insurance rates through a high risk pool, but that would cost me and my family about $2700/month. My mother was also rejected for individual health insurance a while ago for a similar condition.

My understanding is that people with any significant (or not so significant) medical problems can’t generally get individual health insurance unless it’s through one of those high risk pools or unless the plan excludes coverage for their current and past significant medical problems.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 2:44 PM

With Obama doing a wall-to-wall, talk show marathon on Sunday, followed up by an entire show of Barack and Dave on the Letterman show, the polling numbers will surely go the other way for a bit.

Obama must be very concerned about his ratings and must feel that him going on TV shows boosts his ratings.

What`s next for Obama? 24-hour live reality TV with Barry and Michelle, kids and the dog!

albill on September 16, 2009 at 2:44 PM

Oh, and by the way, that’s even though I (and my mom) had insurance through our employers when we had those medical problems. It’s just that, on the individual market, you don’t get “credit” for having past medical insurance.

So, in your example, it’s like Aetna now refusing to cover you for any future damage to or liability from your car even though you did have insurance with State Farm when someone hit you.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 2:47 PM

HondaV65 on September 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Well said.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 2:47 PM

No socialized medicine. You cannot give the DC toilet any excuse to take your money or hire more idiot nephews, ok?

dogsoldier on September 16, 2009 at 2:58 PM

No, dogsoldier. I’ve already emailed my reps to tell them to support the bill (they’re in Texas, so they’re likely to ignore me again). You got a better plan that gives me what I want? Then show it to me.

The current Republican bills don’t do enough to ensure that individual policies will be available.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 3:00 PM

So, in your example, it’s like Aetna now refusing to cover you for any future damage to or liability from your car even though you did have insurance with State Farm when someone hit you.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 2:47 PM

No. It’s like you having to pay more for car insurance, or being unable to get it, if you have a history of getting into accidents or tickets.

Your idea that actuarial tables are illegal and need to be forcibly restricted by the government is insane.

And, as I tried to tell you before, the federal government does not have the power to regulate the health care choices of individuals. Health care and health insurance fall within the powers of the states. But, you don’t give a sh*t about Constitutional restrictions, I’m guessing. You just want whatever you want, at the expense of everyone else and at the expense of the actual structure of our nation. You’re a gem.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 3:15 PM

No, dogsoldier. I’ve already emailed my reps to tell them to support the bill (they’re in Texas, so they’re likely to ignore me again). You got a better plan that gives me what I want? Then show it to me. Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 3:00 PM

What you want Jimbo is a free ride at the taxpayer’s expense. PERIOD. Nothing written in this current bill allows for any other alternative than to put this burden, (in the trillions) onto some one else’s back. Your failure to comprehend this, (by rubber-stamping the bill in its current form), proves that you trust your government much more than many of us who have seen the failures of the past, ie SS and Medicare that are both headed for financial disaster. If you really care about this legislation for purposes other than a free ride, write you reps and demand that they fix those two programs before they attempt to tackle anything else.

Rovin on September 16, 2009 at 3:22 PM

The Jimmy Carter bounce?

PrincipledPilgrim on September 16, 2009 at 3:34 PM

No. It’s like you having to pay more for car insurance, or being unable to get it, if you have a history of getting into accidents or tickets.

Your idea that actuarial tables are illegal and need to be forcibly restricted by the government is insane.

And, as I tried to tell you before, the federal government does not have the power to regulate the health care choices of individuals. Health care and health insurance fall within the powers of the states. But, you don’t give a sh*t about Constitutional restrictions, I’m guessing. You just want whatever you want, at the expense of everyone else and at the expense of the actual structure of our nation. You’re a gem.

–No, it’s not.

(1) Car insurance is not now sold with guaranteed insurability or guaranteed coverage. This health insurance will be. If car insurance was sold in this way, there would be changes in premiums.

(2) My understanding is that the state governments now restrict insurance pricing now for some insurance and that the bill allows the use of actuarial tables for age and smoking (subject to limits). How is that significantly different than what goes on now?

(3) Look at the commerce clause. Congress has the power to regulate insurance and, by Supreme Court decisions, matters of interstate commerce other than non-economic matters affecting only one state. Although several people have said that a part of this bill might be unconstitutional, I think most lawyers would tell you that the odds are that this bill, including the individual mandate, will be upheld until either the commerce or taxing authority provisions of the US Constitution.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM

The Dems, by going the rascist route, are guaranteeing that no black person will ever again have a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected president.

silvernana on September 16, 2009 at 3:57 PM

(1) Car insurance is not now sold with guaranteed insurability or guaranteed coverage. This health insurance will be. If car insurance was sold in this way, there would be changes in premiums.

Huh? If the federal government trashed the Constitution and declared that everyone is entitled to car insurance, no matter their history of accidents or tickets, premiums would go through the friggin’ roof and keep going out of the stratosphere. Health insurance would be even worse. But, you don’t care. You like that because of your personal issues. Great stuff, Jimbo.

(2) My understanding is that the state governments now restrict insurance pricing now for some insurance

State governments have that power. The federal government doesn’t. Of course, the problem is that states that have instituted the same moronic ideas that you advocate are going broke because of it, so the federal governemtn is trying to rescue those ideas by increasing the pool and making more people pay. But the federal government would go broke, the same as the states that tried. If you want a universal mandate, move to Massachusetts and stop bugging the rest of us. But, you won’t do that, because the world must revolve about you.

and that the bill allows the use of actuarial tables for age and smoking (subject to limits). How is that significantly different than what goes on now?

Yeah … right. Smokers cost less than non-smokers, because they die earlier and more quickly. I love the way people want to charge smokers more for insurance, even though they are paying for insurance for others through the insane cigarette taxes, and no one ever talks about letting smokers out of Social Security, even though they tell us how smokers are all going to drop dead long before they ever collect. You people are great. Thinking isn’t your strong point, but you don’t let that get in your way.

And you, with a history of cancer – which is never “cured”, you know – don’t want that taken into account but you want to charge me extra for smoking. Disingenuous, dihonest, stupid and nasty. That about sums up your position.

(3) Look at the commerce clause. Congress has the power to regulate insurance and, by Supreme Court decisions, matters of interstate commerce other than non-economic matters affecting only one state. Although several people have said that a part of this bill might be unconstitutional, I think most lawyers would tell you that the odds are that this bill, including the individual mandate, will be upheld until either the commerce or taxing authority provisions of the US Constitution.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM

The Commerce Clause does not give Congress the right to dictate health insurance policy. Period. And, yes, I’ve seen the insane arguments, by lawyers, no less, that anything bought or sold is “commerce” and, therefore, the federal government can do anything it wants with it. That is just crazy and is the view of those who think there are no Constitutional restrictions on the federal government. Madison, who wrote the Constitution, and Adams, whose Massachusetts Constitution was the template, would disagree strongly with such morons. The limiting of the federal government was one of the guiding principles of the Constitution.

You, and those like you, think that we have a national government, not a federal government. You’d be happier living in one of the collectivist, party-oriented systems of Europe, where you don’t have to worry about restrictions on the government, nor any silly separation of powers …

How America has bred people like you is quite beyond me, but it will spell the end of this nation.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 4:20 PM

You got a better plan that gives me what I want? Then show it to me.

The current Republican bills don’t do enough to ensure that individual policies will be available.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 3:00 PM

And here, Ladies and Gentlemen, we find a prime example of what was called “liberal logic”. We see one individual who expresses the view that the only important subject is himself and what he wants, while at the same time refusing to recognize the “wants” of anyone else, claiming what he wants is good for everyone.

BobMbx on September 16, 2009 at 4:37 PM

The limiting of the federal government was one of the guiding principles of the Constitution.

progressoverpeace

So, you’re not buying the argument that the Founding Fathers, who created the Constitution specifically for the reason of limiting the federal government, put a couple of clauses in there in order to give the federal government unlimited power, lol?

It’s truly sad that this country has millions of Jimbos in it. You’re right….they will be the death of this great nation if they get their way.

xblade on September 16, 2009 at 4:44 PM

Individual mandates for health insurance are prima facie unconstitutional. The Federal government has NO constitutional authority to force anyone to buy insurance. NONE.

Using the commerce clause is NOT going to work. In the past 15 years the Supreme Court has narrowed the unconstitutional use of the commerce clause by the Federal government because of the violence it does to the 10th Amendment. These blatant power grabs will not make it past the Court.

Nevertheless, folks its time to put pressure on your local representatives in the state governments (I’ve reached out to 5 in Florida )to educate them on the Federalist doctrines of Nullification and Interposition. These doctrines are going to to be resurrected to stop Obama’s unconstitutiional plans. We are headed to a Constitutional crisis if anything Obama wants passes into law.

elduende on September 16, 2009 at 4:48 PM

You are forgetting the words of true capitalists/conservatives:

Adam Smith: The Wealth of Nations expounds that the free market, while appearing chaotic and unrestrained, is actually guided to produce the right amount and variety of goods by a so-called “invisible hand”. Smith believed that when an individual pursues his self-interest, he indirectly promotes the good of society: “by pursuing his own interest, [the individual] frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he intends to promote it.”

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged:

My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 4:49 PM

Hey! Beck must read Hotair. He just used my:

then they will scream ‘racism’ in crowded cities in an effort to burn the cities to the ground.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Well … it was close, anyway. Beck used the actual “crowded theater” form. He should have read Hotair :)

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 5:11 PM

Jimbo3 on September 16, 2009 at 4:49 PM

*sigh*

You don’t understand the difference between pursuing your individual desires for yourself (freedom) and pursuing your individual desires in formulating restrictions on others (tyranny). You are really dense.

Both Rand and Smith would have slapped you silly. You have not a clue what they were talking about.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 5:15 PM

I tell you, these folks have got themselves into a real pickle here. What will they do? Abandon the effort or pass some empty useless fig leaf of a bill?

Terrye on September 16, 2009 at 5:27 PM

It appears as though a LOT of people did not do their homework prior to the election. I say that we ain’t seen nothin’ yet! At first I was impressed with his knowledge of the constitution, buy whoa! what better way to change America. Slowly, creeping loss. Oh, I heard last night that there is now an “opt out” for students to sign so that they do not have to say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore. Has anybody else heard about that?

holymoly on September 16, 2009 at 5:30 PM

Even blacks are calling in to the talk radio programs and stating that O bambi has set the black movement back 40 years.

Yes I’d say it has backfired.

thanks again Axelrod!

bluegrass on September 16, 2009 at 5:44 PM

there are no black conservatives…

right2bright on September 16, 2009 at 1:19 PM

So Thomas Sowell is just a figment of my imagination. Great!

MB4 on September 16, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Nope. It’s worse than that. Google search provides over 10 thousand hits for Thomas Sowell and Oreo. I suppose he might really like those cookies…

Loxodonta on September 16, 2009 at 7:10 PM

Rasmussen now reports that opposition to ObamaCare has hit its highest level yet at 55%, with its low equaling its August nadir:


Racist!!

Baxter Greene on September 16, 2009 at 8:10 PM

In fact, his White House press office announced that Obama would have his own plan launched before the speech, which has yet to materialize.

There’s a trend here. While Congress steadily produce plans, however dubious, the Obambi admin has yet to produce a single plan, despite repeated promises. Remember the “Geitner” plan that never materialized despite repeated pressers? Then, the excuse was he was short handed. When the so-called plan was finally released, it was nothing but a bunch of cut-n-paste drivel lifted from politicos (can I use that word now?) that were already eclipsed by events.

To whit, stress testing banks under a ceiling of 8% unemployment, which was eclipsed within days. Hello!?! We’re now just bare points shy of 10%, although when factoring in real unemployment, it’s nearly twice as high.

Sheesh… The brainpower of this bozo posse is indeed mind-blowing.

AH_C on September 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Are you nuts? I bet you want life insurance comapnies to be banned from taking age into account. Please tell me how an insurance company can live when it is forced to sell insurance for a few thousand dollars to someone who knowingly has a disease that is going to cost $400,000? That’s is just retarded.

Please tell me how this works in your fantasy world.

progressoverpeace on September 16, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Personally, I laugh at the preexisting condition canard the wackos trot out. Hey I’ve just been diagnosed with inoperable brain cancer, but, it’s going to be okay because I can still get insurance to take care of me and my family even though it’s a preexisting condition. WOW!

Wait a minute, there was a girl in my car last night. Now the car and her are in a river. Better call GEICO!

Blacksmith8 on September 17, 2009 at 12:12 PM

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