Video: Betting against marriage, fidelity

posted at 2:58 pm on September 14, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

I confess that I have never heard of the website AshleyMadison before reading Kathryn Jean Lopez’ column at National Review Online today. The online dating service has targeted what it must see as an underserved niche in Internet matchmaking — married people. Lopez wrote her column after seeing this execrable ad on television:

While watching the president of the United States declare that we can legislate away hardship during his health-care address to a joint session of Congress, I was lured away from my hyper-blogging, Tweeting, Facebooking analysis by a commercial for AshleyMadison.com.

To the soundtrack of a snoring woman in bed with a man, the announcer says: “Most of us can recover from a one-night stand with the wrong woman.”

The narrator continues: “But not when it’s every night. For the rest of our lives.”

The husband gets out of bed and heads, presumably, to the computer. We see a cartoonish wedding picture. We are made aware of what this restless spouse must be craving: an online-dating site for those who are married but itching for something carnally more, with someone else.

“Life is short. Have an affair” goes the motto for this no-frills facilitator. There’s no need for confession or guilt. It’s all straightforward and out in the open, at least to those in the know. (Maybe not to the parties who didn’t realize “in sickness and in health” does not cover sleep disorders.)

Be sure to read all of it, but that’s pretty much the set-up for this service, which has been debated on CNN, the View, and other media outlets — all of which delights AM, of course. After all, the entire site is based on flaunting infidelity rather than hiding it through dishonest web-dating ads. In that sense, and perhaps only in that sense, does AM do any kind of public good, in that it gives creeps of both genders a place to afflict each other rather than the unknowing.

That’s about the extent of the social and ethical good that this service provides.  Otherwise, its service promotes sexual promiscuity, which hastens the spread of sexually transmitted diseases — and in this case, victimizes unsuspecting spouses.  It undermines families, which creates greater social costs.  The entire enterprise feeds off of misery and unhappiness, not by helping to alleviate it, but by taking an active role in making it worse.

There’s nothing illegal about it, and I’m not arguing that there should be.  However, it deserves ridicule and scorn, and we can openly wonder at the values of the people who enable infidelity for profit.  They should be ashamed of themselves, but unfortunately, shame is getting passé.

Of course, I’m biased.  My wife and I have been volunteering the past ten years to help keep marriages together at Twin Cities Marriage Encounter.  I’m sure the people responsible for the Ashley Madison service will get rich from it, but if you have a few dollars to help support marriage rather than seeing other people undermine it, TCME could certainly use the help.

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Comment pages: 1 2 3

How do you define marraige Holger?

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:51 PM

How about marriages that work!

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 3:49 PM

I don’t think you’ll get women to go back to those, but go ahead and try.

You might want to wear a hard-hat and a cup.

TMK on September 14, 2009 at 3:51 PM

If a person is going to that website, their marriage is in trouble already. Do you any of you honestly thing a happily married husband or wife sees that ad and thinks, hmmmm you know what, maybe I’ll have an affair.

If they’re clicking to the site they’re already on the way to adulturersville. It’s kind of like anti-gun people who make the argument that guns cause people to commit crime. No. They commit crimes and use a gun as the tool. But they’d commit the crime with or without the gun.

angryed on September 14, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Jeff from WI on September 14, 2009 at 3:47 PM

ha! My grandparents lasted 65 years until death seperated them. My parents lasted 55 years until death seperated them. I am going to the end whether it kills me or not!

lol.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Excellent!

Jeff from WI on September 14, 2009 at 3:52 PM

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:50 PM

You know why the husband always dies first?

Because he wants to.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Save traditional marriage. Ban divorce!

ernesto on September 14, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Instead, how about some push back against celebrating infidelity?

Loxodonta on September 14, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Are potential dates certified STD-free?

Yes, the STDs are free, as are the load of buckshot out of the husband’s 12 gauge.

And with ObamaCare, you’ll be on a gurney in the ER behind 12 “immigrants” from Venezuela with the sniffles and that will be free as well.

NoDonkey on September 14, 2009 at 3:53 PM

How about marriages that work!

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 3:49 PM

marriages work both ways. which everyone sems to forget.

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM

Pina colada song?

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:50 PM

I think it is called ‘Escape’.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM

You know why the husband always dies first?

Because he wants to.

No way, I’m going to finally watch a football game in peace.

NoDonkey on September 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM

You know why the husband always dies first?

Because he wants to.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:53 PM

that pillow over his face helps too. I KID! ///

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM

Scum.

The people who built the site.
The people who run it.
The people who work for the service.
The people who made the ad.

And most importantly, the customers that keep them in business.

…just…what the f***, man?

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM

its service promotes sexual promiscuity, which hastens the spread of sexually transmitted diseases

How about a counter-ad listing various diseases (AIDS, cervical cancer) and concluding: “Life is shorter when you have an affair.”

calbear on September 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM

angryed on September 14, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Marriage is ebb and flow. Not every marraige is happy 100%. It takes commitment and hard work through the slim times. The problem with marraige in today’s culture is the lack of willingness to work hard on a relationship.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:51 PM

How do I define it?

Violation of the 13th Amendment.

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM

And most importantly, the customers that keep them in business.

…just…what the f***, man?

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM

I can’t help but think of the people holding elected offices across the country. I bet they really like this site.

bridgetown on September 14, 2009 at 3:56 PM

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM

Probably better ways to suffocate your dude -and- make it seem like an intense sex session. IYKWIMAITYD.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:56 PM

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:53 PM

hahaha. In my family it was the men who outlived the women. Don’t know what that means for me.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:56 PM

You know why the husband always dies first?

Because he wants to.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:53 PM

My grandfather saved up something like a million dollars of assets so that his wife could live comfortably after he was gone. When she went before him, he only managed to outlive her by a few years.
A different take.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 3:57 PM

bridgetown on September 14, 2009 at 3:56 PM

naa that would be sugardaddy.com, or dateyourcongressman.com

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 3:57 PM

I can’t help but think of the people holding elected offices across the country. I bet they really like this site.

bridgetown on September 14, 2009 at 3:56 PM

For once, I see the point of the paparazzi.

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Marriage is ebb and flow. Not every marraige is happy 100%. It takes commitment and hard work through the slim times. The problem with marraige in today’s culture is the lack of willingness to work hard on a relationship.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Amen. I was taught as a young child…if I make a promise, I am to keep it. And I felt it the right thing to do anyway, so it was easy.
People say, ‘in good times and in bad’
but they bail too soon. It’s so sad for so many.
Don’t get me wrong…the ‘bad’ or ‘hard’ times are HELL, but worth it.

bridgetown on September 14, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Probably better ways to suffocate your dude -and- make it seem like an intense sex session. IYKWIMAITYD.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:56 PM

**Looks around**

Are you video taping me and the BF!?!??!

Can I get a copy?

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM

sad. bitter. get over it.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 3:57 PM

I believe I read where husbands who outlive their wives usually do not do so for very long. Women who outlive their husband usually live a lot longer on their own. Men probably do not cope nearly as well. Less friends and stuff to have around them, I bet.

My wife is out of the country for a month, visiting relatives. It’s not very fun, I tell you that.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Wow — I found Ashley Madison bookmarked on my wife’s computer. She told me it was abeuaty products site…

Bleeds Blue on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

What makes them think that husband is any more desirable than that wife?

bloggless on September 14, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Actually, the wife is far more desirable than the husband. She’s being faithful.

We all, in the end, lose our youth and our outward beauty — and some of us never had the latter to begin with. But the wellspring of inward beauty is faithfulness — in every way that term can be used.

unclesmrgol on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Marriage is ebb and flow. Not every marraige is happy 100%. It takes commitment and hard work through the slim times. The problem with marraige in today’s culture is the lack of willingness to work hard on a relationship.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Sure. But if your marriage is at the point where a tv commercial causes you to cheat, I’d say you might as well throw in the towel. That marriage ain’t worth saving.

angryed on September 14, 2009 at 4:00 PM

My wife is out of the country for a month, visiting relatives. It’s not very fun, I tell you that.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

You’re doing it wrong.

TMK on September 14, 2009 at 4:00 PM

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Always leave em with a smile on their face. And no air in their lungs. – upinak

LOL

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:00 PM

I am going to the end whether it kills me or not!

lol.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Me too, JB. I told my wife if she ever gets a boyfriend, I hope he likes me ’cause I ain’t going anywhere my kids aren’t.

Oh, that SOB better not use my razor though.

BacaDog on September 14, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Always leave em with a smile on their face. And no air in their lungs. – upinak

LOL

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:00 PM

I know nothing of what you speak of.

*walk away with a thick leather belt around waist.*

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:01 PM

BacaDog on September 14, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Bruce Willis. Is that you?

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:01 PM

*walk away with a thick leather belt around waist.*

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Second look at upinak.

TMK on September 14, 2009 at 4:01 PM

I can’t help but think of the people holding elected offices across the country. I bet they really like this site.

bridgetown on September 14, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Nah. The anonymity would rob them of their ability to attract cheating partners. When you have power and fame, the opportunities come to you. Now, that web sight that arranges alibis might interest them…

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Oh, that SOB better not use my razor though.

BacaDog on September 14, 2009 at 4:00 PM

but what if your girlfriend does?

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM

We have reached the point where everyone in charge is out for themselves, and see no reason to change that. I’m not saying they have self-interest. I’m saying they’re narcissistic children who want everything given to them immediately, and they want someone else to pay for it. They don’t give a damn who it hurts. They want absolute instant satisfaction, because they believe they are entitled to it.

The depression is going to be interesting.

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM

bridgetown on September 14, 2009 at 3:58 PM

The only time I think bailing is right is if there is abuse, both phyiscal and verbal. Infidelity is also valid since it is also a form of abuse. No one should have to keep their commitments when being abused.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Marriage is ebb and flow. Not every marraige is happy 100%. It takes commitment and hard work through the slim times. The problem with marraige in today’s culture is the lack of willingness to work hard on a relationship.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM

And our lack of willingness to work, period. It’s rife throughout the culture.

Working “hard” on a marriage is doubly “hard” when we are hyper-emotionalists, as well. We don’t know how to deal with lackluster, well, anything. Toss it out, get something new. Sad days.

Diane on September 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM

The depression is going to be interesting.

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM

I see people milling through landfills.

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:03 PM

My wife is out of the country for a month, visiting relatives. It’s not very fun, I tell you that.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Hell, I get melancholy when my fiancee leaves for a weekend.

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 4:03 PM

A marriage is like leveling a character in world of warcraft.

Yeah, the first 40 levels are fun. Levels 41-60 are okay. 61-68 you are in outlands and man it sucks. But 69-80 are the rainbow at the end of the tunnel.

So power thru 61-68 to get back to having fun again.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM

My wife is out of the country for a month, visiting relatives. It’s not very fun, I tell you that.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Hell, I get melancholy when my fiancee leaves for a weekend.

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 4:03 PM

OMG you two. Ever heard of hiney in a can? You can also get her a “perfect mirror image” of your junk that you can make.. together.

*sighs* Men….

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM

A book came out titled Unprotected. The author is Dr. Miriam Grossman, a psychiatrist working at UCLA. One article I read stated that “Her ideas are so contrary to the basic feminist mantras expected from UCLA professors, Dr. Grossman was reluctant to even put her name on the book. Its official author is “Anonymous, M.D.”

What was so controversial? From an article by Mona Charen:

What does Dr. Grossman believe that is so dangerous to admit? Well, start with ordinary sex. She believes that casual, promiscuous sex is tough on many women. They are hard-wired to bond with those they have sex with (the hormone oxytocin is implicated), and she sees countless female students reporting stress, eating disorders and even depression for reasons they cannot understand. After all, the world sells them on the notion that sex is pure recreation, that the “hook-up” culture is natural and even empowering to women, and that love and sex are two completely different things.

From one student “Olivia”:

“‘Why, doctor,’ she asked, why do they tell you how to protect your body – from herpes and pregnancy – but they don’t tell you what it does to your heart?‘”

INC on September 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM

but what if your girlfriend does?

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM

As long as it’s not for a mustache.

BacaDog on September 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Save traditional marriage. Ban divorce!

ernesto on September 14, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Save traditional intelligence. Ban ernesto.

MarkTheGreat on September 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Live and let live. I know people who think this way. Frankly, they all strike me as being emotionally disconnected and dysfunctional.

But, they are who they are.

AnninCA on September 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM

From an NRO interview with Dr. Grossman [my emphasis]:

A young woman is not warned that she is hard-wired to attach through sexual behavior, and that no condom will protect her from the heartache and confusion that may result. Also missing from her education is that the younger she is, the more vulnerable her system is to infection with a sexually transmitted virus or bacteria.

…I want to highlight the existence of an invisible group: women (and men) with emotional scars from an abortion. They are out there in numbers; many must seek support from networks outside our mental-health system. This is because although individual practitioners may be sensitive to the trauma of abortion, the mental-health establishment denies it exists.

…On an institutional level, I’d like to see war declared on our campus hook-up culture. It should be done with the same no nonsense approach we’ve used in our campaigns against tobacco, drugs, and alcohol. Remember, self discipline exists outside the gym and the cafeteria. First we must believe students can “just say no” to promiscuity. Once that happens, some of them might actually consider it.

INC on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

bridgetown on September 14, 2009 at 3:58 PM
The only time I think bailing is right is if there is abuse, both phyiscal and verbal. Infidelity is also valid since it is also a form of abuse. No one should have to keep their commitments when being abused.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM

I absolutely agree. Know someone right now, about to divorce. Tried her heart out, but she is definitely in an abusive situation, as are the children. She has stayed too long, only because of her spiritual views on marriage. It has taken a lot to convince her that her God wants her to be safe! Still painful, but it’s funny how the children are reacting with GLEE over this parting. Something she did not expect. They are going to be free to be and not hurt anymore. It’s helping her to move on. Thank God for the children’s wisdom here, because she could not ‘see to see’.

bridgetown on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM

So that’s how you get those trophies!

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

She’s being faithful.

It is perfectly acceptable to divorse your spouse because they think the ring on their finger means permission to become a slob in body and soul or that it means you are their slave.

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

My 17 year old has had a cell phone for 6 months and wants an upgrade. Uh, no I don’t think so. That’s the attitude worth fighting in this culture. The best way is to stand strong as an example for the kids that upgrading isn’t always the answer to happiness…

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

The only time I think bailing is right is if there is abuse, both phyiscal and verbal. Infidelity is also valid since it is also a form of abuse. No one should have to keep their commitments when being abused.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM

I don’t think there is a problem if there are no children involved, either because none exist or they have all grown up and left home. With children, though, stick it out until they are adults.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:07 PM

upgrading isn’t always the answer to happiness…

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Does that mean I have to stop using Rogaine?

BacaDog on September 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM

So that’s how you get those trophies!

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

I onlyhave one trophy. I decided to throw the others out after I got this one. He was fun to mount!

It is perfectly acceptable to divorse your spouse because they think the ring on their finger means permission to become a slob in body and soul or that it means you are their slave.

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Spoken like a man who has never done anything with his life concerning a woman.

How about your get your head out of your butt and learn that the world does not revolve around you. And unlike some men.. women don’t usually care if you get fat and can’t “get it up”.

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM

I know people who think this way.

I don’t and if I did?

I’d stop “knowing” them.

If they’ll screw over their spouse, they’ll screw you over in a second as well.

I have better things to do than waste my time on losers.

NoDonkey on September 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM

One other thing about marriage:

I’ve got this stunningly beautiful little red-haired daughter. She looks so much like her daddy and has her mommy’s eyes. I just got her out of her high chair and she laughed at me when I tickled her and lifted her up really high…and it occurred to me that both my kids look to me every minute to show them how to live…and how to be married and to love a spouse. My daughter follows me around everywhere. That is a very real, very legitimate reason to do everything I can to love their daddy.

Diane on September 14, 2009 at 4:09 PM

With children, though, stick it out until they are adults.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Not sure if that’s the right answer. Would you really want to grow up in a house where your mom and dad hated each other? That’s not really healthy, either.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Wow — I found Ashley Madison bookmarked on my wife’s computer. She told me it was abeuaty products site…

Bleeds Blue on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Maybe she wanted to find someone for the two of you?

Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM

OMG you two. Ever heard of hiney in a can? You can also get her a “perfect mirror image” of your junk that you can make.. together.

*sighs* Men….

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Yeah. Wore out the novelty during puberty. Seeing the crap that they sell in sex shops for men now just makes me laugh.

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Diane on September 14, 2009 at 4:09 PM

So you’ve gotten over the whole “she has no soul” thing, I presume? :P

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:07 PM

And besides that, if there is abuse, that is what legal systems are for. This isn’t Saudi Arabia, for crying out loud. A few months in the poke many times has a way of calming violent jerks of both sexes.

TMK on September 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM

If you make your life’s mission to pursue happiness, you will never be happy. If you make your life’s mission to find ways to bring happiness to your spouse and children you will have an abundant life.

it doesn’t get any simpler than that.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Yeah. Can’t say I’ve ever had the urge to screw a flashlight, myself.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

OMG you two. Ever heard of hiney in a can? You can also get her a “perfect mirror image” of your junk that you can make.. together.

*sighs* Men….

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM

?
?!

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

With children, though, stick it out until they are adults.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Ah no. My parents were like that and I told both of them when I was in my 20′s that they should have gotten divorced as it may have been easier for my brother and I. It was hell living in that house.

How about if they can not live together due to the hate, to leave but be civil no matter what.

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

As for generating public outcry… the results of it will change nothing. As for making a fuss about it… well, the publicity garnered from covering this is as good as gold from a marketing perspective. Everytime they talk about these sites it’s the same thing. Free Advertising. People that want to cheat are going to find a way, and talking about how dispicable they and the site are will not change change that or suddenly make struggling marriages happier. But try for a second to think about how difficult it is to reach your target market: cheaters. How many people browsing a shady website would have to see an ad, and be interested in cheating, and have the balls to go through with it, for your advertising strategy to be effective? It’s a very difficult, and expensive task… that is, unless you get someone else to do it for you and market you to the masses. Here’s a site so outrageous that any media outlet in America simply can’t resist feigning their own outrage anytime the news cycle gets slow. Free Advertising. You said it yourself: You had never heard of Ashley Madison until today. Well after posting, there are now thousands of readers that have heard of Ashley Madison that might not have this morning. Everytime one of these silly talkshows bring up these services, they do nothing but make good people ashamed of what their society has become, while helping the scumbags discover an easier way to be scumbags.</strong>

Medicated on September 14, 2009 at 4:12 PM

And besides that, if there is abuse, that is what legal systems are for. This isn’t Saudi Arabia, for crying out loud. A few months in the poke many times has a way of calming violent jerks of both sexes.

TMK on September 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM

That, too. Though there is a moral hazard in, say, requiring charges of abuse to secure a divorce.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Yeah. Wore out the novelty during puberty. Seeing the crap that they sell in sex shops for men now just makes me laugh.

MadisonConservative on September 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Mad, that is the point. Go in have a good laugh.. maybe get a toy or a lotion and have fun. Lightens the mood and you both are in a good place to have fun. Ok NOT in the shop.. maybe the car.

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Bleeds Blue on September 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Wow, that is a tough one. I’d start protecting the various bank accounts.

FireBlogger on September 14, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Marriage is ebb and flow. Not every marraige is happy 100%. It takes commitment and hard work through the slim times. The problem with marraige in today’s culture is the lack of willingness to work hard on a relationship.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM

This is largely true. However, if only one person is rowing, the boat will never reach the shore. Sometimes one person will work him/herself to death and the other person could care less.

ladyingray on September 14, 2009 at 4:14 PM

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM

That was from the male perspective concerning their spouse.

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 4:14 PM

It is perfectly acceptable to divorse your spouse because they think the ring on their finger means permission to become a slob in body and soul or that it means you are their slave.

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 4:06 PM

If the spouse is doing this while the other spouse is not, and the other spouse has been open with talks about this issue, then I might be inclined to agree.

But saying your wife got fat after having kids and never got her weight back down even though she’s not obese or overall unhealthy doesn’t work as an excuse for me personally. I’ve seen it happen far too often the other way, with the man getting fat (even without the excuse of having children) but is otherwise a decent man his wife still loves.

Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Save traditional intelligence. Ban ernesto.

MarkTheGreat on September 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Why?

ladyingray on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Ah no. My parents were like that and I told both of them when I was in my 20’s that they should have gotten divorced as it may have been easier for my brother and I. It was hell living in that house.

How about if they can not live together due to the hate, to leave but be civil no matter what.

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

That’s a separate matter. Besides, you don’t have to divorce to live separately, if that’s what it takes.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

That was from the male perspective concerning their spouse.

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 4:14 PM

And what I am saying is you have issues. Don’t ever get married…

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

If you make your life’s mission to pursue happiness, you will never be happy. If you make your life’s mission to find ways to bring happiness to your spouse and children you will have an abundant life.

it doesn’t get any simpler than that.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

I agree 100%. But that’s a bit of a message that people hate to hear.

But yeah, that’s actually the truth of life.

All the rest was, I think, a way to wear me out when I had too much energy. *haha

AnninCA on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Since the people responsible for this put no value on integrity and keeping commitments, I think everyone should expect that this company will take people’s money without giving them proper “services.” ‘

Why should anyone trust this “business?”

inviolet on September 14, 2009 at 4:16 PM

Yeah. Can’t say I’ve ever had the urge to screw a flashlight, myself.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

I’ve wondered if those things were even any better than a hand anyway.

Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:16 PM

But saying your wife got fat after having kids and never got her weight back down even though she’s not obese or overall unhealthy doesn’t work as an excuse for me personally. I’ve seen it happen far too often the other way, with the man getting fat (even without the excuse of having children) but is otherwise a decent man his wife still loves.

Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Um, that’s ugly and awful. I hope you don’t mean that HAPPENED to you. Oh my.

Diane on September 14, 2009 at 4:16 PM

ladyingray on September 14, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Compatability is tough. You may have been compatable at one time, but as you mature interests can change. Find some common ground and see if that is enough to build something longlasting together.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Though there is a moral hazard in, say, requiring charges of abuse to secure a divorce.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Sadly, false charges of abuse are rampant in the family courts already, especially against men.

TMK on September 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM

That’s a separate matter. Besides, you don’t have to divorce to live separately, if that’s what it takes.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

I don’t think it is. I really think my parents wouldn’t not have been happy any way. Heck my Mom still stomps around if I mention my Dad. My Dad and mom got divorced years ago and he passed away 3 and a half years ago… but yet she still has these feelings.

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM

But saying your wife got fat after having kids and never got her weight back down even though she’s not obese or overall unhealthy doesn’t work as an excuse for me personally.
Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Oddly enough, I’ve seen this situation, but it was said overweight wife that insisted on the divorce.

Count to 10 on September 14, 2009 at 4:18 PM

If you make your life’s mission to pursue happiness, you will never be happy. If you make your life’s mission to find ways to bring happiness to your spouse and children you will have an abundant life.

it doesn’t get any simpler than that.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

+1000

I would just modify that to, if you’re single, to serve others

inviolet on September 14, 2009 at 4:21 PM

I just want a good woman. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find one gullible enough to take me.

spmat on September 14, 2009 at 4:21 PM

That is a very real, very legitimate reason to do everything I can to love their daddy.

Diane on September 14, 2009 at 4:09 PM

That is why its sooooo important to keep working on that marriage.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:21 PM

Yeah. Can’t say I’ve ever had the urge to screw a flashlight, myself.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM

I’ve wondered if those things were even any better than a hand anyway.

Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:16 PM

Ya know, some days there’s a lot more TMI on this site than others. Just sayin’. *looks around, whistles innocently*

inviolet on September 14, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find one gullible enough to take me.

spmat on September 14, 2009 at 4:21 PM

Self confidence is a aphrodisiac.

jbh45 on September 14, 2009 at 4:24 PM

I’ve wondered if those things were even any better than a hand anyway.

Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:16 PM

If you still gotta do the work, I can’t imagine it would. Something that did the work for ya, now that’d be just swell. Just swell.

lorien1973 on September 14, 2009 at 4:24 PM

upinak on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

And you know that how?

Holger on September 14, 2009 at 4:25 PM

I hope you don’t mean that HAPPENED to you. Oh my.

Diane on September 14, 2009 at 4:16 PM

I’m appreciate your concern, but no, none of that describes me. We’re still a year or so away from having children.

It’s just something I see all too often, not usually ending in divorce but with men almost bragging about how they’re no longer attracted to their wives, which might be enlightening were it not for their own extra weight and unkempt looks.

Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:32 PM

… I’ve seen it happen far too often the other way, with the man getting fat (even without the excuse of having children) …

Esthier on September 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM

I object, your honor — I didn’t get fat, I got fatter.

My collie says:

I’m available if you need a good lawyer, CC.

CyberCipher on September 14, 2009 at 4:36 PM

Lorien, i AM beset upon by windmills…the GOP is for some reason not making the kind of boneheaded moves it was making before, and the democrats have inhabited increasingly indefensible positions.

By and large all i have left are windmills, aside from the usual bold faced GOP contradictions like drug policy, and the fact that every now and then some preconceived notions appear in the logic thrown around here that could use some highlighting…but yes, by and large its windmills. ;-)

ernesto on September 14, 2009 at 4:36 PM

It might surprise you, but people tell me I think this way.

Frankly, they all tell me I am emotionally disconnected and dysfunctional.

But, I am who I am.

LOL*

My opinion?

Live and let live.

Unless you’re a fetus of course.

— AnnintheCan

Loxodonta on September 14, 2009 at 4:37 PM

ernesto on September 14, 2009 at 4:36 PM

Save electrons. Ban ernesto.

My collie says:

Don’t forget about saving archival server space for the “Vault”.

CyberCipher on September 14, 2009 at 4:39 PM

The only place they should run these commercials is during showings of “Fatal Attraction.”

Turning toward prostitutes or other women of impermanent affection probably doesn’t help the guy over time. He is likely to find himself unable to be happy even if he marries the love of his life, because he has found that if she snores or whatever, he can go spend some time with a gal who doesn’t. He gets in the habit of running out on women, because he has become accustomed to expecting perfection from them, and not finding it — any more than they find it in him.

I’ve always thought that the sexual revolution of the ’60s and ’70s was a bad deal for women and a great one for men. Divorce became easier, and it’s usually the woman who gets dumped; after the divorce, her income typically falls, while his increases. The right to say “yes” to fornication became the obligation to do so: say “no” to the guy more than a time or two, and he’ll just go find someone else.

And if the gal says “yes” and becomes pregnant, he no longer has to do “the honorable thing” but can tell her to go kill the kid or raise it herself.

What a great world we’ve created.

KyMouse on September 14, 2009 at 4:39 PM

I just always say I did live until “death do you part.” The problem was, that rule was established back when lifespans were shorter. *haha

(We just forgot to die!)

Just a joke……lightening up the thread here.

AnninCA on September 14, 2009 at 4:41 PM

Instead, how about some push back against celebrating infidelity?

Loxodonta on September 14, 2009 at 3:53 PM

How does one go about doing that?

ernesto on September 14, 2009 at 4:42 PM

I just always say I did live until “death do you part.” The problem was, that rule was established back when lifespans were shorter.

AnninCA on September 14, 2009 at 4:41 PM

That makes sense. heh.

Diane on September 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM

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