Democratic memo: 9/12 Project might draw two million people to D.C. tomorrow
posted at 7:05 pm on September 11, 2009 by Allahpundit
Maybe. Or, like MKH says, maybe it’s a lame, cynical attempt to raise expectations so high that even if they draw a million the left can cry, “It was a bust!” Silly Nancy, tricks are for kids.
A top House Dem leadership aide has emailed a memo to Dem aides on the Hill and outside liberal groups warning they should brace for a turnout of up to two million people, suggesting Dems worry that if enough conservatives descend on the Mall it will amount to a major PR victory for the right.
The aide, Doug Thornell, warned in the memo that the dust-up over Joe “you lie” Wilson has been invigorating conservatives. “It looks like Saturday’s event is going to be a huge gathering, estimates ranging from hundreds of thousands to 2 million people,” Thornell wrote in the memo, which was forwarded by a source.
While we’re on the subject, anyone want to try explaining to me why this is a “core principle” of what amounts in practice to a giant tea party?
I believe in God and He is the center of my life.
Beck fans reminded me the other night on Twitter that the man himself says you needn’t subscribe to all nine principles to be part of the Project; apparently any seven (why seven?) will do. Which is super, but beside the point. Why would an atheist join a political movement that makes belief in God part of its plank? Why does Glenn Beck care whether I go to church — and he does care to some extent if he’s putting this on the list of core convictions — if if I’m willing to vote with him on cutting taxes? No one was bugging me about my faith or lack thereof on 9/12/01, which the Project claims in its mission statement it’s trying to “bring us all back to.” And quite frankly, any form of aspirational language in a political context about what “the center of my life” should be is … odd. Is this about smaller government or self-help?
I’m going to make you vote on this; I want to know how many think it’s so important that it should be some guiding light for grassroots conservatism, which is what the Project amounts to in practice. Exit quotation from peeved liberal James Poniewozik: “You want to bring back the feeling of national unity and civility, Glenn Beck? You could start by not using this tragedy as your personal political platform.”
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The physical proximity may be more than he can bear.
Hey MB4: I knew u had scurried away to find Einstein/God quotes, and I am in awe of ur ability to live without Einstein’s physics. But he did not believe the universe could have been created without one.
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 9:31 PM
What nancy doesn’t say is that possible 2 million crowd is not all conservative. Make room Repubs for us Democrats ( or rather ex-democrats) and independants. We have been on the same side as you since before the election and more of us have crossed over every day since then.
They expect opposition from Republicans, what burns Pelosi, Reid and Obamas bottom as well is the millions upon millions of their own party that attend Tea parties as well. They have to label it “conservative”, heaven forbid it gets out there are alot of Independandt and Democrats participting as well. But your fellow Americans already know that
Niteowl45 on September 11, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Even when we disagree with spmat, he has more value here than you.
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Clearly he believed it and did not find it at all incompatible with his belief in God.
MB4 on September 11, 2009 at 9:32 PM
I’m not an atheist, but I’m a poseur as well. Have some compassion on us. ;)
ddrintn on September 11, 2009 at 9:32 PM
I’m not a poseur, but I play one on TV.
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 9:33 PM
most atheists are wacko libs…and the ‘conservative’ ones are like the LGF guy…
with friends like that….
right4life on September 11, 2009 at 9:33 PM
We will be blessed if God is where He should be.
Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord…..
ohiobabe on September 11, 2009 at 9:34 PM
wow.
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Einstein seemed to me to believe that the Universe and God were the same, almost like two words for the same thing. He clearly did not believe in a soul, life after death, nor a personal God.
MB4 on September 11, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Nah, I’ve found that most atheist conservatives are more of a libertarian attitude, nowhere near as authoritarian as lefty atheists.
ddrintn on September 11, 2009 at 9:36 PM
Whose God? Jefferson’s unitarian God, or the trinitarian one that others have in mind? Is the point for members to believe in some first mover, some Creator? Is there criteria for how directly involved that God has to be on the daily matters of state?
dedalus on September 11, 2009 at 9:36 PM
I wouldn’t last one comment on LGF.
MB4 on September 11, 2009 at 9:37 PM
Oh, I didn’t know you meant the Christian god when you claim your atheism. I thought you meant all the gods. Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps you (and others) are more rightly, christian-atheists.
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 9:37 PM
I love how you religionists try to to group all atheists together. After all, there’s no difference whatsoever between Christians, Hindus, Muslims, or Wiccans, right?
Oh hell AP, I suppose there’s no harm in exposing the fault lines. The earthquakes coming whether we see them or not.
ElectricPhase on September 11, 2009 at 9:38 PM
IMO; it is conservative – just not exclusively republican.
Welcome.
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Anyone else experiencing twitter difficulties?
Diane on September 11, 2009 at 9:38 PM
most of them are pro-choice, pro gay-marriage…so how ‘conservative’ are they?
right4life on September 11, 2009 at 9:38 PM
MB4, do you really think that your neighbor is willing to grant to you the freedom to speech, assembly, property and religion?
If not, in what do you trust?
If so, how long do you think that will last?
Either way, what is the basis upon which you will make your argument for your unalienable rights to those things?
The Declaration of Independence? It’s only a piece of paper signed by slave owners and those willing to live with slavery to further their ends of independence from Great Britain.
The Constitution? It’s only a document assented to by states willing to live with slavery and oppression for the sake of peace.
Either those concepts you love are supported by inherently non-scientific assertions whose home exists only in the Christian worldview or you are willing to fight tooth and claw for their application to you and yours.
What argument will you have when your teeth and claws are dulled beyond their ability to secure them?
spmat on September 11, 2009 at 9:39 PM
blah, blah blah with your arguing God/religion
Get your booties to DC tomorrow and work for AMERICA, eh? If you are a living being, go.
Cry yourselves to sleep quietly, please, with your beliefs and lack thereof. Nobody freakin’ cares.
bridgetown on September 11, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Nope.
Don’t do it = no problem.
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Given the licensing deals his estate can do with his name, perhaps Einstein has a life after death (if one counts sticking his tongue out on thousands of T-shirts).
dedalus on September 11, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Your non sequitur of Belloc notwithstanding, apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. (Perhaps that explains your propensity for non sequitur.)
I am not an atheist. Far from it in fact. I have, on this very thread, proclaimed my faith. But then again, you’ve already demonstrated a proclivity for selective reading with your (deliberate?) omission of quotes from the Founders regarding religion and its misplacement alongside the State, so I’m not really surprised. Such is the nature (or should I say Nature) of the thumpers of the Bible.
Most of the Founders clearly believed in God, and in fact believed that rights were handed down by God. But after recognizing that, they clearly had very little need for God to keep setting their new government to right. They had seen to that by setting up a system based upon observed principles of power.
Do you doubt this? Here’s an experiment for you to undertake. Go through The Federalist papers (something I have done multiple times) and count the number of times you find “God” or “Creator”. Then contrast that with the number of times they mention the words “reason” or “utility”.
I’ll give you a hint… one of those groups you’ll get exactly one mention of, and one you’ll lose count if you are not careful.
I’ll leave you to discover which is which. That is, if you have the intellectual honesty to actually try that experiment.
JohnGalt23 on September 11, 2009 at 9:42 PM
look at the history of this country…when it was more christian/religious it was more free…with the decline of religion and the rise of secularism, we have become more socialist…..
socialism and atheism go hand in hand…look at europe…as faith has waned…socialism rises…
right4life on September 11, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Amen.
ElectricPhase on September 11, 2009 at 9:42 PM
I don’t know. I’m not the judge of each and every person who calls him/herself a conservative. I’m OK with a Rudy Giuliani, for example. I guess you have to take each individual on his/her own overall philosophy.
ddrintn on September 11, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Barry spoke to Ahmadinejad today about how he managed to block twitter for the Iranian protesters, and now he’s trying it out in advance of tomorrow.
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 9:42 PM
What you say is what I had observed all the way back to the April 15 TEA parties. Those events were clearly not a partisan gatherings of disgust with out-of-control government. The American taxpayers, regardless of political party, are fed up federal overreach into our lives, confiscatory taxing for programs that we don’t agree with and regulations that are destroying our economy, crushing debt and destruction of our currency, and refusal to be accountable to the citizens that they are supposed to represent. It is the trampling of the limits imposed by our Constitution that has riled the citizenry who have vowed to be silent no more.
onlineanalyst on September 11, 2009 at 9:43 PM
Pelosi is a member of the Status Quo Liberal Elite Liar Club.
TN Mom on September 11, 2009 at 9:43 PM
I personally like Rudy…he seems like a good guy..I just don’t think he’s that conservative…I would have trouble voting for him…because of his liberal social positions..
right4life on September 11, 2009 at 9:45 PM
Must conservatism be exclusively the province of those who believe a certain way on those issues?
Is gay marriage a deal breaker for you?
That leaves out a lot of people who think of themselves as true libertarians, (of the live-and-let-live sort.)
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 9:47 PM
In the strictest sense, free will is an illusion.
MB4 on September 11, 2009 at 9:48 PM
yeah it is actually. because of the profound implications that gay marriage would have for freedom of religion in this country…it would pretty much end it….
so yeah I have problems with someone who says they are ‘libertarian’ and yet are unaware, or ignore, the restrictions on freedom of religion that gay marriage would have.
right4life on September 11, 2009 at 9:49 PM
“…the mathematical truths you call eternal truths have been established by God and depend entirely on him, just as much as all the rest of his creatures.”
- Rene Descartes (if you don’t like what he said, then stop using anything at all derived from his contributions to philosophy and mathematics)
malclave on September 11, 2009 at 9:49 PM
With that I completely agree. I hope they have a couple million there.
Pavel on September 11, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Rational men, skilled in the art of politics within a democratic and republican framework, using the experience of society, as demonstrated by their predecessors like Machiavelli and Locke, decide those rules.
A question: If the Founders believed that God was at the center of this great experiment in liberty, then why did they feel the need to include provisions to amend the Constitution? Is that just in case God changed His mind?
JohnGalt23 on September 11, 2009 at 9:51 PM
major LOL.
I_C on September 11, 2009 at 9:52 PM
Beautiful!
daesleeper on September 11, 2009 at 9:52 PM
Much as I hate to wade into this one;
If you separate the civil/legal institution of marriage, which is a priveledge granted to some, by the individual states, from sanctified (religious) marriage –
How does the first one (legal marriage) infringe on the freedom of religion?
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 9:53 PM
sounds like the French revolution…you know, the Terror? with their ‘goddess of reason’ in notre dame…
right4life on September 11, 2009 at 9:54 PM
Thus ends your argument for freedom. In the strictest sense.
Your freedom is a (confusing) application of tooth and claw.
Shall I start arguing with you now about the particular details of freedom and the lack of resources now or wait till that (non-free) choice presents itself between us?
Or should I just kill you now and convince my fellow man that you were a pediment to the “universal rights of man” after the fact?
spmat on September 11, 2009 at 9:55 PM
Looks like I have got you very upset as you continue to lash out in a very un-Christian like manner. Are you Muslim? I didn’t steel anything. I don’t always remember off the top who said what. I don’t hold the Library of Congress in my head. If it is short, I am not going to bother to “google” it just for you.
MB4 on September 11, 2009 at 9:55 PM
I highly doubt 2 million will show tomorrow.
Unfortunately – I won’t be there. :(
HondaV65 on September 11, 2009 at 9:56 PM
There is no conceivable way for a human being to be shackled to the mechanical dictates of rigid determinism. Laplaces’ Demon was just a thought experiment that was taken too seriously at the high water mark of Newtonian Mechanics.
Determinism is not a philosophical question. It is based on physics, not classical but rather quantum.
The firing of neurons and the threshold levels for excitation are outside the classical realm and well within the quantum domain where uncertainly is an established fact.
Penrose in The Emperors New Mind argues in fact that Stong AI is impossible because the brain itself is non-deterministic.
One argument is his stated believe that thought (even thought limited to the field of Mathematics) is not algorithmic and can’t be modeled unless some amount of chaos, noise or randomness is introduced by quantum uncertainty which he believes comes from within the Microtubules in the brain.
He also cites Turing’s famous Halting Problem which seems to be the death knell for the existence of mechanical theorem provers. In other words you can’t build a mind out of matter unless quantum events (or the uncertainly introduced by them) is in some way simulated as well.
Geochelone on September 11, 2009 at 9:56 PM
I can’t explain it, I can only know. Good luck with your search.
long_cat on September 11, 2009 at 9:56 PM
Redundant!
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on September 11, 2009 at 9:57 PM
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
- Bohr?
MB4 on September 11, 2009 at 9:58 PM
A.P.: I have a question.
After listening to you frequently enough blather on about your atheism, why do you think anyone gives a crap? I hope that you’re not like so many of those who seem to have the omnipotence of the god they don’t believe in, to know for certain the unknowable (that there is no god). But having that omnipotent knowledge of the universe, why must athiests go yakety-yak all the time: “I don’t believe in god – and don’t try to make me!” Nobody cares dude – its just really boring.
Is someone trying to convert you into believing in god, or are you just one of those typically PITA anti-religious bigots who can’t leave others to their beliefs.
If the offense you takes at the beliefs of others is so intense, just don’t partake of whatever offends you.
seanrobins on September 11, 2009 at 9:59 PM
we’ve already seen examples of this with the catholic charities in MA having to stop providing adoptions because of the requirement that they give children to gay couples…
churches that continue to ‘discriminate’ against homosexuals will lose their tax exemption, they will be put into the same category as racist institutions….
for a fuller examination of these issues…
link
right4life on September 11, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Because they new that they were, as all men are, fallible.
pugwriter on September 11, 2009 at 10:01 PM
he wasn’t looking for experience of God. he was looking, I think, to show the absurdity of “requiring” a particular view of God to go and protest and tell obama to go to hell.
(btw, telling people that the only way to find god is through some personal “knowing,” that’s indescribable isn’t helpful to those people who find things out other ways. There are several paths to god.)
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 10:01 PM
When you’re full of crap, go to the bathroom. Don’t describe it.
– No one more important than your janitor.
spmat on September 11, 2009 at 10:02 PM
link
right4life on September 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM
AP, I’m not sure why it was necessary to throw a poll about religion into this thread about the 9/12 Tea Party in Washington, especially since there’s been precious little opportunity to discuss this Tea Party event tomorrow here on HotAir. It almost seems like you hijacked your own thread. Whatever. No, you can’t make me vote in your silly poll.
I hope the Tea Partiers have great numbers tomorrow, but mostly I hope they stay safe and show a positive presence for our side of the argument. Sad that our President feels it’s more important to attend a Michigan rally (or is it Minnesota–don’t care) tomorrow instead of staying in the nation’s capitol and showing that HE thinks that he’s the president of all the people. I’ve heard that argument made so many times–”He’s the President of all the people, so we should respect him.” Well, excuse me, but he sure doesn’t act like he’s my president. Imagine if he were to have a little face time with this crowd tomorrow–he could potentially have a huge impact, and I for one would have some respect for him if he would do that.
Tomorrow I’ll be at a Tea Party in Quincy, Illinois. It will be nice to be in a group of people who think like I do for a change. The people who surround me are mostly couch-sitters who use facebook to post pictures of stupid dog tricks or of their drunken weekend bar-crawling. Sad. I guess I need to meet some new people.
labwriter on September 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM
errr–”knew”
pugwriter on September 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM
Dude!?
I was actually able to follow most of that–I’m very proud of myself.
/grin
ElectricPhase on September 11, 2009 at 10:05 PM
That there is pretty funny.
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 10:05 PM
How?
Ronnie on September 11, 2009 at 10:05 PM
“In God We Trust”
“All men are endowed by their Creator…”
“…one nation under God…”
CP on September 11, 2009 at 10:06 PM
I kept getting a shock from my keyboard, so I figured he had something. I wrote in “meghan mcCain” and it seemed to stop.
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 10:07 PM
I’m here with 8 family members @ a crappy hotel 40 minutes from dc. The hotel is packed with people as far away as Colorado. People are still coming in. It’s not about beck, it’s about liberty and corruption. I want the fed govt the he’ll out of my life.
joshlbetts on September 11, 2009 at 10:07 PM
Me too. Keep us updated.
Geochelone on September 11, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Seems like Joe Wilson calling Obama a liar has paid off. It may start a trend:
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 10:09 PM
The proponents of homosexual marriage don’t give a floral damn about how that issue might affect churches. To their mind, those churches that decry homosexuality deserve punishment for those views.
You’re wasting your breath.
spmat on September 11, 2009 at 10:09 PM
I’ll look at the link, and reflect on this point.
I viewed the action you cited as the state infringing on Catholic Charities freedom of association more than anything else; but I’m open to new facts.
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 10:10 PM
I didn’t say I was a proponent.
I asked a particular question; R4L answered.
Civil discourse is never a waste of breath.
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 10:11 PM
9/12 is modeled after AA?
Beck is an alcoholic, thus 9/12 is Government Anonymous.
jhffmn on September 11, 2009 at 10:11 PM
Stay safe and please keep us updated. The crappy hotel doesn’t matter. You’re there, and that’s what’s important. Make a big noise tomorrow! We’ll be watching, even if the “professional” media chooses to ignore the whole thing. They ignore us at their own peril–at the risk of their own demise.
labwriter on September 11, 2009 at 10:15 PM
Yep. You put it more clearly than I did. People with a wide variety of views on the divine can agree that Obama’s expansion of the state is a bad thing.
dedalus on September 11, 2009 at 10:16 PM
I didn’t say I was talking to you.
Might point still stands on its own. Proponents of homosexual marriage aren’t concerned with its effect on churches.
spmat on September 11, 2009 at 10:16 PM
I second or third or whatever it is by now on this thread that we have some open comment section about the Tea Parties tomorrow here at HotAir.
labwriter on September 11, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Bleh, sorry massrighty. I’m being contrary.
spmat on September 11, 2009 at 10:18 PM
I thought of AnninCA the second I read the post.
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM
I voted no.
While I believe in God, I don’t think it is necessary to believe in God to want small government, less taxes, political truth, secure borders, etc…
As a Christian/Catholic I would encourage belief in God, but I will not force anyone to accept Him.
ConDem on September 11, 2009 at 10:20 PM
Of the 47.7% of CA voters who voted against Prop 8, you’ll probably find a few who are pretty hard core on the First Amendment.
dedalus on September 11, 2009 at 10:20 PM
What do either of those issues have to do with conservatism?
jhffmn on September 11, 2009 at 10:21 PM
I’m there with you in spirit, brother/sister. Keep the faith!
long_cat on September 11, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Offense not taken – I jumped a little fast on your response, too.
massrighty on September 11, 2009 at 10:23 PM
I think people like that could even create this nation, and write and believe in its Constitution :)
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 10:27 PM
Geez is this stupid thread still going? AP is an egocentric idiot to make this about religion. After his post about his experience on 9/11 I was hoping he had more class. Not to be I guess. Having lost someone on 9/11 I
Deanna on September 11, 2009 at 10:30 PM
AP-As an atheist I understand your concern, and I voted no on your poll. However, I don’t really have a problem with this issue.
My political core is love of country and anti-marxism. These two things are all I need to feel comfortable here at HA. I may be simple minded but with me it always boils down to “the enemy of my enemy.”
I only wish I could afford to be there for the 9/12 gathering. Alas, I am a self-employed computer repair tech making just enough to get by.
Still, I hope with all my heart that 2 million god-fearing people do gather. This atheist would be proud to stand amongst them. It would be the greatest political event in my 58 years.
Gang-of-One on September 11, 2009 at 10:30 PM
Woe is me….after Booking a Flight and Hotel for 9/12…standing on my tiptoes financially to make the Trip…I had to cancel.
Auto repairs, both cars, and lost Income at job, pushed me towards being practical.
I made 3 G.O.E. events in 2007, and WAS IT FUN…being in dc with like thinking people, its like SURROUND SOUND !
Michelle Malkin was there in 2007…I’m sure she will be there this time.
I do have enough money left over to send to Joe Wilson…but thats the best I can do for now….but I DID maKe the FIRST TEA PARTY ralleys in Dallas, actually 2 of them.
I’m a Local Activist for now….buts lets hope for a HUGE turnout in DC….
JayTee on September 11, 2009 at 10:32 PM
A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills.
- Schopenhauer
Is that free will? Well, it is and it isn’t, I suppose. Some things are like that by their very nature. Not everything is binary.
MB4 on September 11, 2009 at 10:33 PM
Shoot, I hit Ctrl in error and posted too soon.
I was going to say, having lost someone on 9/11 I am so not in the mood for this crap about whether a group has the right to decide what its own principles are and whether some pundit finds it offensive. Grow up AP,or at least find a news topic, there are plenty you have over-looked today.
Good night to all and God Bless. I will be in DC tomorrow and hope to see some of you there.
Deanna on September 11, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Well, that may not have been his plan, however he is Loki and we are Pavlov’s dogs.
MB4 on September 11, 2009 at 10:37 PM
Reporting in from DC / this place is jammed to the gills – we can see the capitol from our hotel. Have met 100′s of people that have driven in – one lady from CA and one dude flew in from Hawaii. We drove in from Florida. Most peeps are from TX (go figure, huh?). Something happened tonight at a gathering that NEVER happens at lib gatherings – chants of USA USA USA & we sang every patriotic song ever written.
Ris4victory on September 11, 2009 at 10:39 PM
Funniest thing I’ve read today!
Gang-of-One on September 11, 2009 at 10:39 PM
I find it amusing that you quoted Bohr (principle founder of Quantum Mechanics and staunch defender of the Copenhagen Interpretation) in your argument to buttress determinism.
Crack me up.
But you made some points and I am familiar with the Schopenhauer quote which might argue only for unconscious motivations and not lack of free will. The unconscious, like the hidden layer in a Neural Net, is tuned by various perceptual sources, subliminal and otherwise. The seat of reason is a froth of quantum driven chaos which collapses from many possibilities to an actuality. That is what Bohr would say.
Geochelone on September 11, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Curious. Was he talking about himself, others, or all?
I have spent a lifetime insisting that I will what i will. It is, in fact, doable. But in my case, only at the exclusion of much else.
JiangxiDad on September 11, 2009 at 10:49 PM
We’re hoping for 20000 in Chicago tomorrow.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 11, 2009 at 10:50 PM
Didn’t become the national motto until 1956.
Not added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954.
One would think if these were indicative of the Founders’ belief in a divinely inspired nation, they would have included them in our national lexicon a little bit prior to the Eisenhower administration.
But once again, I suppose they could have been distracted by the Philadelphia summer heat, and these details just got overlooked.
JohnGalt23 on September 11, 2009 at 10:50 PM
If the organizers say belief in God should be a core principle then it should be a core principle.
CliffHanger on September 11, 2009 at 10:51 PM
I was wondering how long AP would continue being nice to Beck. Just had to find something to criticize him for.
I don’t believe that belief in God is required to be a patriot, but neither do I believe it’s appropriate to accuse Beck of saying that. All he asks is that you agree with 7 – to voluntarily join a private group he started.
Not the end of the world, and so not worth mentioning at a time when we’re supposed to come together.
MobsterinVA on September 11, 2009 at 11:08 PM
Did you not read the history of our founding fathers? I believe all of them were people who believed in God… Do you have a problem with them too?
ChuckTX on September 11, 2009 at 11:15 PM
GOOD GRIEF, does this argument bore me.
A modern conservative (and therefore classical liberal) believes in the value of individuals, and therefore promotes free markets and individual liberty. All other opinions stem from these convictions, though we may disagree on certain details and interpretations. Obviously, if you are religious and particularly if you practice in the Judeo-Christian tradition (as I do), you believe humanity derives its value from a Creator. There are just as many secular arguments for the value of men (Ayn Rand enumerates them best), so…..
Pardon, but WTF is the problem here?! Are we really going to keep shooting ourselves in the foot when we’re on the brink of rescuing our nation by insisting that Conservatism be exclusive only to Christians or Atheists?
A lot of Conservatives believe in God. Some don’t. Atheists need to learn not to be offended by any profession of faith and conservative Christians need to learn not to exclude conservative atheists when their goals match. Probably a pipe dream, but there you have it. Yeah, I think Beck’s inclusion of this tenet will turn off some atheist Conservatives. Fortunately, the Tea Party movement has no such stated principle, so just latch on to them if Beck’s specifics bother you. Ain’t it great to live in a free country where you can even choose which Conservative movement to join?
AP, you’re too sensitive. And my fellow Christians, you need to accept the support when it’s offered – after all, God works in mysterious ways.
Animator Girl on September 11, 2009 at 11:20 PM
As a believer I see Jesus Christ as the ultimate expression of freedom. That being said, I can and will be honored to stand beside any freedom loving atheist who will stand beside me to stop the tide of tyranny that is threatening our Republic. God bless!
jimmy2shoes on September 11, 2009 at 11:24 PM
I agree with you completely, but I don’t think AP is being too sensitive. I think it needs to be stressed, while most of us (myself included) have traditional values, that’s not conservatism in the classical liberal/modern conservative sense.
I hear it nonstop on the talk radio where I live. Pro-life is the #1# issue for conservatism apparently, which is absurd. There needs to be a bit of conflict inside the party to reassert the core values.
As you pointed out, there is room for both Atheists and Christians because faith is not the litmus test for conservatism.
I get where AP is coming from, I get offended by it too.
jhffmn on September 11, 2009 at 11:31 PM
Many non-believers in God are strong supporters of conservative causes.
Many believers in God are strong supporters of liberal causes.
Many from both groups are supporters of particular points in both causes.
Human nature is fluid, and in some more fluid than in others. One of the guiding foundations of our country is the freedom to believe what we want, when we want, without having to explain ourselves to anyone. I may not agree with some beliefs and their subsequent related actions. At best I may choose to ignore you, but I certainly can not stop you from believing what you will.
(The above comments do not preclude my willingness and ability to defend my family and/or home against some nutcase who believes breaking the law is okay. My husband and I are both excellent shots and we have no compunctions about protecting ourselves, so I strongly suggest you not try it. But that’s O/T.)
In any event, I do not subscribe to Glenn Beck’s position that one must adhere to seven of his nine points, regardless of which seven points one may choose. In fact, I don’t believe it’s anybody’s business to which points one does or does not adhere.
At any time in an individual’s life, their position on personal faith vs. non-faith may (and often does) change, be it over the course of one day or many years. Therefore, while I admire Glenn for his hard work and I understand the importance of faith in his personal life, another person’s faith …or lack thereof… should not enter into the equation vis-a-vis participation in the 9/12 Project.
As a Christian, I believe in God and His Word. As a citizen of the USA, I believe in the Constitution. And if I were able to be in Washington, D.C. tomorrow, I would have no problem whatsoever meeting and becoming friends with those who do not share my faith but do share my convictions regarding the Constitution of the United States of America.
Allah, please don’t be so hard on Glenn because you don’t agree with his faith principle. After all, many of us here at HA don’t always agree with your conclusions or principles, either! But we still keep coming back, don’t we?
GrannyDee on September 11, 2009 at 11:37 PM
I like these kind of questions. I wonder the same things myself. For me the question has not been “is there a God” but really “how do you define God”. I am pretty sure that there isn’t a bearded dude sitting on Mt. Olympus tossing lightening bolts at unfortunate Greeks. However, I do think there is a rational explination for the universe and that conscousness is a fundamental part of that explination. I am still refining my thesis of course.
I am pretty sure that is an awesome post, but I have had several Mexican martinis do I will have to re-read it in the morning and get back to ya.
bitsy on September 11, 2009 at 11:39 PM
You ain’t very old there are ya? Free as in 1955 free? Being told by a censorship board what movies are un-suitable for adults and recreation facilities closed on Sunday because of Blue Laws. I remember “Tom Jones” was not shown in some East Tennessee cities because it was too risque. Would you like some wine with dinner at home? It would have been a crime in most places back then.
Free fifty years ago? Yeah, as long as you were White.
Pelayo on September 11, 2009 at 11:41 PM
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