Demagogue-in-chief on Joe Wilson’s apology: I just wish we could be less vitriolic, you know?
posted at 4:05 pm on September 10, 2009 by Allahpundit
I know you do, champ. That’s why you farm out the rhetoric about “evil-mongers” and “political terrorists” to halfwits like Harry Reid and Democrats in the House instead of dirtying those dainty hands of yours. But as painful as the vitriol might be to your tender Hopenchangey heart, you never open your mouth to specifically rebuke your own side, do you? A wise man once had something to say about presidents who don’t keep their surrogates in line, but never mind, I guess. Enjoy the lecture from Captain Civility:
After what he called an “excellent and informative Cabinet meeting,” President Obama told reporters that he accepts the apology of Rep. Joe Wilson, R-SC, who shouted “You lie!” during the president’s address to a joint session of Congress last night.
“Yes I do,” the president said. “I’m a big believer that we all make mistakes. He apologized quickly and without equivocation. And I’m appreciative of that.”
Mr. Obama then turned to use Wilson as something of an example – making this a teachable moment, perhaps – saying that “we have to get to the point where we can have a conversation about big, important issues that matter to the American people without vitriol, without name-calling without the assumption of the worst in other people’s motives.”
That’s from Tapper, who uncharacteristically lets this insulting garbage go unchallenged. Meanwhile, remember how the media started digging into Joe the Plumber’s financial past after he had the temerity to question The One? History repeats itself, my friends. And that’s not the only thing Wilson and JTP have in common. As I recall, Wurzelbacher’s concern was that Obama would raise his taxes — which, of course, he will, for the simple reason that our enormous deficits now demand it. Wilson’s concern about ObamaCare is similarly well founded. You can watch him explain his reasoning below (or read Ramesh Ponnuru elaborating on it), but there are at least three good reasons to think coverage will eventually expand to include illegals. One: That’s what federal programs do. Public schools weren’t designed to serve non-citizens either but compassion and equal protection rulings by a left-leaning Supreme Court changed that. No reason to think it won’t happen with ObamaCare. Two: As noted by MayBeeTweet, Obama’s argument in wanting to give driver’s licenses to illegals was that it was a “public safety issue.” It’d be very easy — although maybe not politically salable — to expand that logic to covering illegals under ObamaCare because it’s a “public health issue.” And three: When you’ve got The One and Harry Reid angling to pass an amnesty bill next year, it doesn’t matter if ObamaCare covers illegals or not. If the White House gets its way (which it probably won’t), those illegals will soon be legal anyway.
One other point. I realize that the media generally and NBC in particular need to spin Wilson’s outburst as some sort of big victory for Obama, but how stupid would one have to be, exactly, to believe that? The “Republicans behaving badly” meme failed epically last month, and the headline “You lie!” surely wasn’t what the White House wanted to see on Drudge this morning. Says Tom Price of Wilson, “What it has done has drawn attention to the fact that the president’s statements so often are at variance with the truth.” Indeed. Or, if you prefer the blunter Tancredo version, “Joe is right. Obama is a liar.” So he is, and so he’ll remain as long as he keeps trying to sell this boondoggle as some deficit-neutral emergency rescue plan to solve a crisis that, for most people, simply doesn’t exist. You lie, Barry. And lie and lie and lie.
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I am a political evil mongering american, anit-american teabagger terrorist who believes in the constitution and smaller government, who waves my AMERICAN flag and calls you a Liar.
anyone with me?
upinak on September 10, 2009 at 4:42 PM
“At variance with the truth.” Wouldn’t it be simpler to say, “Obama lies an awful lot!”
PappaMac on September 10, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Everyone knows the Joker lies …
tarpon on September 10, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Channeling Maureen Dowd:
President Obama replied to
Laura on September 10, 2009 at 4:44 PM
D’zayum!! Whatever you’ve been doing, Allah. Keep it up! You have been on fire lately!
SouthernGent on September 10, 2009 at 4:44 PM
I wish I had the high minded personality that would allow me to sit through a joint session of Congress while the POTUS called my colleague a liar without a neanderthal outburst…no wait…hell no I don’t. I could always apologize later when the POTUS apologizes to my colleague.
d1carter on September 10, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Geez, Allah. What made you wake up on the right side of the bed today? You are usually so willing to give Dhimmicrats the benefit of the doubt for their rhetoric and actions in your posts. What finally tipped you over on this one?
Not that I mind. I just wondered why it took you so long to get to the (Tea) party.
Subsunk
Subsunk on September 10, 2009 at 4:45 PM
True.
I think many people focus on personalities because it’s more of an emotional argument; whereas, persuasively arguing complex issues takes far more knowledge of detail and fact. People gravitate to the former to cover for their lack of insight.
EarthToZoey on September 10, 2009 at 4:45 PM
I couldn’t make out exactly what Obama said after the you lie remark, but I have been able to extract it after careful audio analysis:
faraway on September 10, 2009 at 4:45 PM
“I wish we could be less vitriolic, but there are some out here who would rather do nothing. Everyone who opposes this is lying to you about everything, and if we don’t pass something right now people are going to die. These are simply the facts, and this is so because I say it is so. Also because I make this serious face when I look to the teleprompters, both to my left and to my right.”
stldave on September 10, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Yeah, but if he is not #1 draw on air and on tube (not a chance), he’s going to make a big stink about it.
“All you racist white-s…”
Sir Napsalot on September 10, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Here’s the website the liberals are donating to. You’ll notice that the biggest impact is coming from Daily Kos.
Enoxo on September 10, 2009 at 4:46 PM
The lies and the lying liar who tells them.
Liar in Chief.
Freud – 1
Truth – 1
Obama – 0
Pelocchio – 0
Rahm – “fu*k Drudge, and Wilson…can’t succeed around here”
Biden – “what happened?”
McCain – “it was baaaad”
Olbermann – “conservatives are the worst citizens”
Schadenfreude on September 10, 2009 at 4:47 PM
On the contrary, I’m amazed at how dumb all of you must be to believe it was some sort of loss. It plays right into the rhetoric from Obama’s surrogates you decry in the post. Quite frankly Wilson looked like a white-house caricature of a crazed town-haller.
Try and flip your logic to the other side and see if it’d be helpful. What if during Bush’s 2003 SOTU address a democrat had screamed out “You lie!’ while Bush detailed the case that Iraq had WMD’s. The democrat swiftly apologized after and was castigated by his peers. Do your really think this would play into the hands of the anti-war side? If anything it would have helped to paint them as loons. Just like with Wilson.
crr6 on September 10, 2009 at 4:47 PM
anyone with me?
upinak on September 10, 2009 at 4:42 PM
100%
fourdeucer on September 10, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Over at Politico…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090910/pl_politico/26970
they’re saying how Wilson’s outburst is
“a game changer.”
Uh huh.
I sorta thought someone would have that notion
about socializing America.
Lockstein13 on September 10, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Allah is “looking” like an Alpha hottie today.
I mean, for an anonymous blogger.
I’m impressed.
Diane on September 10, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Excellent post, AP. When you’re riled up, you’re one of the best.
Ha. Problem is Obama’s super ego couldn’t handle the bottom-dweller Air America ratings.
conservative pilgrim on September 10, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Uhh try and flip your logic first…what if Bush would have stood there and called all of those who oppose him as”liars”?
theTarCzar on September 10, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Exactly. Pointing out The Precedent LIES about policy is a policy issue and a point of fact. You should be celebrating it.
progressoverpeace on September 10, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Maybe that’s it. He isn’t being his normal beta-self. More alpha please.
conservative pilgrim on September 10, 2009 at 4:50 PM
If this is all they’ve got as a “game changer” they’re in poor shape.
Schadenfreude on September 10, 2009 at 4:50 PM
And the American people as a whole just don’t like to see their President personally attacked.
They just don’t (yes, there are historical exceptions).
Besides, even if we defeat Obama, there’s always another one to replace him. If we defeat Obama’s ideas and philosophy, then the next Obama doesn’t have a chance.
SteveMG on September 10, 2009 at 4:50 PM
um. It’s never too early.
Diane on September 10, 2009 at 4:50 PM
How about we also get to the point where we can have a conversation about big, important issues that matter to the American people without our elected officials blatantly lying to our faces and treating us like chumps? As, for example, when you and the other Democrats insist that your healthcare plan won’t cover illegal aliens, while at the same time you vote down every amendment Republicans offer to insert an eligibility or proof of citizenship requirement into the HC bill? Or when you and the other Democrats go speak before illegal alien advocacy groups like La Raza and tell them that, of course, illegal aliens will be covered under the bill (and wink, wink, don’t pay any attention to us when we say otherwise to the American public — we just say those things to appease the xenophobic racist clingers). When are we going to get to that point, Barry? And is going to be before or after disgusted American voters boot your sorry lying a$$ out of office?
AZCoyote on September 10, 2009 at 4:50 PM
I could’ve sworn it was, “Healthcare…it’s got electrolytes!”
James on September 10, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Horrah for Alpha Allah!
Diane on September 10, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Discussing his lies is not discussing policy.
Discussing where his policies are wrong will defeat both Obama and the next statist who will follow. And believe, there’s lots more Obama’s waiting in the wings.
SteveMG on September 10, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Thanks for the info. Sent him something. From the comments it looks like hundreds of HuffPooh idiots are donating to Wilson’s opponent.
Firefly_76 on September 10, 2009 at 4:53 PM
He’s a real nowhere man
living in his nowhere land
making all his nowhere health plans
for nobody
has a marxist point of view
fixed since 1982
nowhere man can you see me at all…?!
nowhere man please listen
you don’t know what you’re missing
nowhere man
the world is not yours to command.
eaglewingz08 on September 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM
He recognizes a big hypocrite when he sees one. None is bigger than Obama, the empty FAKE, who can’t quit lecturing others on virtues he possesses none of.
Schadenfreude on September 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Joe Wilson’s Democrat opponent has raised over half a millon since last night. I just contributed to Joe Wilson at:
News@joewilsonforcongress.com
dragondrop on September 10, 2009 at 4:55 PM
The Precedent personally attacks Americans, all the time. He hates Americans and he hates America, and most Americans know this. I doubt many Americans shed tears to see him get 1/1000th of what he’s been dishing out. They are wishing that more will stop the traitor in his tracks before he does irreversible damage to this nation – and that point is very, very close.
You are as wrong about this situation as you were about the town hallers turning people off with their shouting at reps who wouldn’t listen to them. You don’t understand the dynamics of what is going on and you don’t seem to really comprehend the very serious and immediate threat that America is facing.
progressoverpeace on September 10, 2009 at 4:55 PM
AllahPundit is one of the main writers that persuaded me towards in a more conservative viewpoint. I find him to be fair, even in the face of those who criticize him for any small bit of credit he may give to the “other side”.
In my opinion, voices like his should be welcome — because the more freethinking, the more intellectually honest the argument, the more apt it will be to convince those who may be on the fence and/or turned off by demagoguery. Either you turn away voters, or you welcome a bigger tent that can help advance your core beliefs, even if incrementally.
EarthToZoey on September 10, 2009 at 4:56 PM
When you’re right, you’re right.
I’m hoping that we’ll get there.
Diane on September 10, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Yep, and the entire family. Looks like the weather forecast for DC on Saturday is getting better. Can’t wait to go mobtatisic on the Mall.
Firefly_76 on September 10, 2009 at 4:57 PM
I hope a lot of the Tea Party members have a “You Lie!” sign.
That would be glorious.
Enoxo on September 10, 2009 at 4:59 PM
VDH said it best, again
Schadenfreude on September 10, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Obama Lied. And Lied.
faraway on September 10, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Sorry, you’re confusing me with someone else.
I may have criticized those who shout down other speakers but I never said that the townhall protests would turn people off. In fact, I excoriated MSNBC and other news outlets for trivializing these protests.
It’s never appropriate to shout down and try to squelch the First Amendment rights of others.
SteveMG on September 10, 2009 at 5:03 PM
You believe that if we beat Obama that the problem/threat will go away. The threat comes from a wide range of people whose views are dangerous.
I want to beat their ideas not beat one person.
SteveMG on September 10, 2009 at 5:05 PM
VDH is da man.
Schadenfreude on September 10, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Interesting how it’s OK to call radio talk show hosts and political opponents liars while addressing congress, but be above the charge yourself. Very fascist of him.
Hening on September 10, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Bush was attacked mercilessly by the dems/media(same thing)for years.And most of it WAS lies,distortion,and smears…didnt seem to hurt the democrats in the last couple elections.Also while some of the public may have been turned off by it,it wont be near enough to change their minds on health care reform,or there vote.Id welcome the dems to try to use this as an attack ad on repubs next year…theres a bottmless pit of prominent dems making outrageous statements on video.Carter,clinton,gore,obama,reid,pelosi ..the whole damned gang.And i believe,as i said on a threead last night,that this will lead many,many more people to take a closer look at what is and isnt actually in this bill…and most wont like what they see.
theTarCzar on September 10, 2009 at 5:07 PM
My apologies. I thought you had been one to say that the town hall protesters were being too loud and rude. Sorry, steve.
progressoverpeace on September 10, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Wait. I thought Kennedy’s death was the game changer. Someone keeps changing
the rules ofthe game.SouthernGent on September 10, 2009 at 5:12 PM
I read an article this morning that said Wilson’s opponent is still $440,000 in debt from his last run at Wilson. If so, the 500 large that he’s supposedly received really won’t help him too much, especially against a Rep who, by most accounts, is still a lock in his district. But, I’m contributing to Wilson anyway…
joejm65 on September 10, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Obama is a liar.
It’s nice to just come right out and say it.
Jim Treacher on September 10, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Congressman Wilson, by his Freudian slip, interrupted a very nicely prepared and scripted bedtime story (Rahm and Axrod)
Just about when the nation was going to fall asleep, the good congressman blurted out “Wake up America, your president is lying through every breath and sentence”.
Schadenfreude on September 10, 2009 at 5:17 PM
+ one jillion or so.
pugwriter on September 10, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Please point out where Obama did exactly that.
crr6 on September 10, 2009 at 5:19 PM
There are lots of marxists and America-haters among the left, but none of them are remotely as dangerous as The Precedent. Even Shrillary would not have been anything close to this dangerous. No one in politics had ever imagined trying the cr*p that this fool is doing, and you would be hard-pressed to find anyone else who is allowed to get away with the blatant lies that this fools spews continuously. Shrillary wasn’t allowed to get with away with anything like this during the primary, in a campaign, even. Of course, Shrillary couldn’t try and beat down most of the population with cries of “Racist” every five seconds.
America has never seen a threat like The Precedent, and this threat is immediate and doesn’t extend beyond him, at the moment. Of course, the longer this goes on, the more the threat metasticizes and spreads to others. Letting the fool ram through the Porkulus only fed his insanity, as did passing Sotomayor through. We appease this absolute enemy of America at our own peril. I would have thought that this was obvious to everyone by now, but evidently not.
You have to worry about the immediate threat first. There are more than a few pieces of legislation that, any of them on their own, will set the end of the US in motion. This is a fight here and now. Otherwise, there won’t be anything left to fight for.
I warn you against taking the McCain-type stance that “The idiot messiah is no threat to America” [paraphrased, obviously]. McCain didn’t understand what the threat was and how serious it was. He imagined another Carter or Clinton, but this is something much, much different. Much, much different. Marxists infesting the White House. America-haters and communists writing policy. This is beyond insane.
As I said before, you don’t seem to understand how serious these immediate threats are. Just wait until one of the pieces of killer legislation makes it through or until Israel hits Iran. Then you’ll know. The credit market will tell you, because we’re going to go through Oct 2008 again, and there won’t be any money left to buy more time.
progressoverpeace on September 10, 2009 at 5:20 PM
This reveals something that should scare us all. They are now complaining that we should be less vitriolic while the vitriol gushes from their mouth. It doesn’t stop with vitriol. They want us to be more fair while they scheme unfairness. They want us to be more tolerant while they preach intolerance. Pick any subject. Though hypocrisy stands out that’s not my point. Instead I’m pointing out the destruction that arrogant minds are capable of. This is the same kind of thing that can lead to GREAT evil and all the while ‘reason’ their madness.
Terrorists shout unfair treatment and send planes into buildings and blow up buses filled with children. Nazi’s shouted about Jews purchasing everything and then tried to wipe them out.
DONT GET ME WRONG IM NOT EQUATING THE LEVEL OF EVIL WITH WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS CURRENTLY TRYING TO DO.
Our nation’s schools and homes are now filling minds with such arrogance and I truly wonder if we can recover or we are headed for more unprecedented evil.
shick on September 10, 2009 at 5:23 PM
What part of ‘what if’ didn’t you understand?
joejm65 on September 10, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Right before joe wilson called him out.
theTarCzar on September 10, 2009 at 5:30 PM
I agree with you to a point, however, I just noted that Allah has gotten far more sarcastic towards the One and far less lenient with the Dhimmicrat’s speech today than he usually is. Usually, he and Ed both try to appear so reasoned and evenhanded to the extreme when discussing Dhimmicrat’s rhetoric and viewpoints. I simply find him a little more on the strident side than usual. After all, I’ve been reading him for the last four years or so. I recognize a different turn of the phrase today than I’ve seen before today.
And I like it…….
As for speaking less harshly in our rhetoric and attracting more voters into the “big tent”, how about we stick to the basics of economics and conservatism (pay your bills, stop demanding the govt do things it is not suited to do well, and eliminate waste and fraud, and STOP BORROWING money you don’t have or intend to pay back), and attract and persuade voters on that basis instead of trying to keep weak sisters who will vote for any handout that sounds good and want everything for nothing, even if the Republicans promise it to them instead of the Dhimmicrats? How about we adhere to common sense and let those featherweight voters fall where the wind blows them until they wake up and realize, as HopenChange is proving right now, that you don’t get something for nothing. And that standing up for the Truth and for what you believe in are conservative values, and not Dhimmicratic values. How about we go there first?
Because if you, as a Republican or conservative, subscribe to the belief that war against radical Islamists is a bad thing, then I don’t think you understand the world as it is, and I sure as Hell don’t care if you vote for a Republican anyway. You’ll vote for anyone will a sad story and a promise to pay you more, even if it requires perpetrating evil on your fellow Man to do it. Those kinds of folks do not understand reality and will vote for whomever sounds handsomer in a debate. Not for who is correct. And those voters got us where we are today.
They voted for it. Let them suffer the consequences of the HopenChange they voted for and live to understand that their votes should not be given so lightly to someone who will take their money and lie about his intentions while doing it. And he isn’t even a good Liar. Human nature being what it is, there is no other way to teach them how important their votes are.
Winning at any cost is only required in warfare, not politics. Dhimmicrats and RINOs fail to understand that in war, people die by the thousands. In politics, no one dies immediately. They only die from neglect and malaise. I recommend you read Anne Applebaum’s book, Gulag, on the prisons and communes of the Soviet system to gain insight to what a failure to stand up against Socialism and Communism will do to your fellow Man. It is an eye opener.
It isn’t that I don’t want you in the Republican party. It is that conservatives aren’t out to change everything in our country for the sake of change, and recognize that adults should consider and suffer the consequences of their actions before blaming their neighbor for being the cause of their own troubles. Why do we have to change the Truth of human nature in order to attract you, or anyone else to our side? Our philosophy alone should be enough to tell you the correctness of our positions. Because opposition to gay marriage, suppression of religion, allowance for racism of any kind, and abhorrence to legal alien immigration to the USA is NOT what conservatism and Republicans are all about, despite what the media tells you. We are far more tolerant of minorities than any other group in the country today. We just want you here legally and to pull your own weight. Don’t add to our burden just because liberals thinks we make more than enough to support ourselves and someone less deserving should have some of our hard earned money for doing less than we do.
Rooting for our countries enemies for political advantage, planning to take from the rich to give to the poor, and demonizing everyone who thinks differently than liberals do is what Dhimmicrats do. If you find someone here rooting for America to fail (that doesn’t include the President either, I said America), then you are lokking at a Dhimmicrat.
Subsunk
Subsunk on September 10, 2009 at 5:36 PM
when Obama details his case rather than sits there and makes false assertions we’ll come back to this, until then you’re just a troll.
Fighton03 on September 10, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Obama: “It is a lie, plain and simple.”
You really are a troll. and a pathetic one at that.
Fighton03 on September 10, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Barack Obama: Listen to me, everybody! I’m your new leader! I’m gonna save your lives! I’m gonna tell you what to do!
Allahpundit: Don’t listen to that lying pipsqueak. The sky isn’t falling.
Barack Obama: I tell ya it is too falling!
Allahpundit: And I tell you it isn’t.
Barack Obama: Is too!
Allahpundit: All right, if the sky is falling why doesn’t it hit me in the head?
[Rahm Emanuel hits Allahpunditc on the head with a piece of wood]
David Axelrod: Barack Obama is right! What do we do? Oh, Barack Obama, you’ve got to save us!
MB4 on September 10, 2009 at 6:13 PM
And the rest of that tune -
He’s a real Control Freak Man
Ruling in what he wants to be a vassal land
Making all his controlling plans
For everybody
Doesn’t listen to an opposing point of view
Control Freak man, ruling all he thinks is his purview
Control Freak Man, he had better listen
He don’t know with what he’s messin’
Knows already just what he wants to do
Doesn’t he seem a lot like Hitler and Mussolini to you?
He’s a real Control Freak Man
Ruling in what he wants to be a vassal land
Making all his controlling plans
For everybody
He’s as blinded by his lust for power as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
He’s got such a God complex point of call
Control Freak Man can you even see America at all?
Knows already just what he wants to do
Doesn’t he seem a lot like Hitler and Mussolini to you?
He’s a real Control Freak Man
Ruling in what he wants to be a vassal land
Making all his controlling plans
For everybody
About Control Freak Man we should all worry
To destroy all America built he is in a hurry
If he controls everything his fascist way
It will be a forlorn day
Hes going to leave it all a mess
Anyone of sound mind must confess
He’s a real Control Freak Man
Ruling in what he wants to be a vassal land
Making all his controlling plans
For everybody
MB4 on September 10, 2009 at 6:24 PM
I just popped back into the thread to see if you ever responded, and I thank you for doing so. That was a well written and thorough response. You’re right that the essential principles that make up the foundational essence of conservatism shouldn’t be compromised simply to attract voters. I don’t mean to convey that at all.
Hear me out for a moment, please? Keep in mind that there is a good number of voters that don’t spend as much time on politics or political philosophy as you or I. Yet, in this republic, we do need voters in order to elect the right representatives (obviously). AllahPundit was a refreshing voice during the election at a time when I was reading shouting matches back and forth that rarely, if ever, conceded when the other side had a good point to make. I can’t think of an example where AP came across as “weak” on liberal philosophy — he is just less willing to demagogue and able to recognize when the other side does something commendable (believe it or not, it does happen from time to time) or gets something right. Wouldn’t you agree that acknowledging kudos, when due, doesn’t have to mean that you’re caving on your principles? I’d argue that finding the time to do so — to say, “OK, you’ve got a point there, BUT…” will get people to listen much more than ignoring it, folding ones arms, spinning it negatively out of spite, and calling those with opposing views names. Trust me, when I was registered as Democrat and when I did pronounce myself to be a Liberal, all the times that people used verbiage like “Dumbocrat” or “libtard” or (sorry to say) “Dhimmicrat”, it served to make me stubborn and unwilling to hear the Republican/conservative position out — just as reading liberals use equally demeaning names “rethuglican”, etc, was a major turn off. I never used that language. But sure, I understand the name-calling can be funny and there’s good times to employ it, but when people can’t pause for a moment to *respectfully* disagree, that’s when I tune them out. That goes for all sides.
AP in this article is very hardline and uncompromising, yes. And that is different than how he often can be, yes. But he also is laying out a terrific case for why he’s angry and not giving an inch. But I would never encourage him to abandon his intellectual integrity and degrees of fairness that he does possess and express very well.
I’m not saying that there isn’t a place for the Rush Limbaughs and Mike Savages of the world. There absolutely is. There is a time and a place to ignite the base with more heated rhetoric. But please don’t forsake those potential voters (like myself), who are interested in expanding their perspective, by minimizing thinkers, like AllahPundit, who bring an approachable attitude to the conservative, smaller government cause.
That’s just my opinion — and as Dennis Miller says, “… I could be wrong.”
EarthToZoey on September 10, 2009 at 6:25 PM
I see, so y’all are now backing off the lie that the legislation says it will cover illegals; now it will eventually expand to do so. Shrewd.
Constantine on September 10, 2009 at 6:25 PM
No. It will cover illegals because no one is allowed to even ask if they are illegal. It’s the same typical lefty maneuver that we have all seen a thousand times before.
progressoverpeace on September 10, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Where in the bill does it say that? You seem to be assuming that there’s a horde of illegals with the government issued photo IDs and Social Security numbers required to receive insurance.
Constantine on September 10, 2009 at 6:39 PM
Amendments that would have demanded proof of eligibility were EXPLICITLY rejected by dems. Like I said, we all know the script.
LOL. Of course there are – fake/stolen IDs and fake/stolen SS numbers. Haven’t you been around for the past few years? We had these debates long ago, with people trying to defend the millions of illegals who engage in identity theft and SS fraud. In fact, most of the moron lefties like to argue that illegals pay taxes. Well, on what SS numbers are their taxes filed?
And with free health care, you can bet your butt that more illegals will be coming this way.
progressoverpeace on September 10, 2009 at 6:45 PM
Mr President, with all the civility I can muster:
“You need to look at the man in the mirror….”
WyoMike on September 10, 2009 at 6:48 PM
Al Qaeda’s More Dangerous Safe Havens:
One of the platitudes on war in Afghanistan is that we must remain to prevent al Qaeda from returning to Taliban safe havens, just as though the Taliban offered the only potential safe havens to al Qaeda in the world. Sorry, folks: what we know as “al Qaeda” is everywhere — from Gaza to Thailand to Mumbai to Madrid to Yourtown, USA, all of which seems somehow disconnected to the national security debate.
Al Qaeda is also, of course, in London.
We won’t devise a winning strategy until we connect these dots: “al Qaeda,” which is merely the name-brand for this epochal flare-up of Islamic jihad, will not be contained until it is understood to function globally. Our victory requires not the massive deployment of “nation-building” armies in one or two remote areas, but the targeted, intensive deployment of force as necessary, cunning everywhere and a decisive affirmation of Western survival instinct.
MB4 on September 10, 2009 at 6:50 PM
Maria and me and our 12 ninos are loading up right now. See you just as soon as it passes, Gringo.
NoBordersJose on September 10, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Saying there isn’t enough fraud prevention in the bill is a far cry from saying it intends to cover illegals.
Constantine on September 10, 2009 at 6:56 PM
I can’t imagine why so many people consider conservatives to be racists who stereotype other cultures.
Constantine on September 10, 2009 at 6:58 PM
It is your inner demons.
Sigmund on September 10, 2009 at 7:04 PM
You mean aside from the identity thieves? Yes, actually, there are a horde of illegals with drivers licenses and SSNs, or something exactly like an SSN. You don’t need to be a citizen to get a Individual Tax Identification Number issued by Social Security, and with that in hand, they can usually get other documents and live a normal life – buy houses, even. You don’t remember all the illegal alien foreclosure sob stories last year? You know, just came here for a better life and got screwed by the mortgage co/bank? There was a full court press on that narrative by the media about 18 months ago.
Laura on September 10, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Not in the least. You are absolutely correct. I value reasonable discourse as much as anyone. I hate listening to O’Reilly because he loves to argue. I can’t stand that. I don’t get to listen to Rush because I can’t during the day at work, and I ride a motorcycle to work, so no radio. When I have heard him, I’m 75-90% agreeing with his position. Sometimes he doesn’t have a good answer to his own questions. Everybody’s got their own opinions and to everyone else, they all stink.
I am just flabbergasted and amazed that Allah has become strident today. It is out of character. I love the guy and value his sarcastic logic and point of view very much. I think he is one of the great pundits of the Internet, and gets far too little notice for my tase. Even when I am “calling him out” for his positions which I may not agree with, I admire him greatly.
I have very few absolutes in my life. Respect for folks who serve in the military, police, intel, firefighting services, etc… deserve way more respect than they are given. I value their courage and honor and integrity far more than your average Joe.
My country is the greatest country on the face of the Earth, and I don’t accept anyone who says we are less than a force for good in the world. Certainly not perfect. But a system far more productive and wealth generating and egalitarian does not exist on this Earth. Period. I’ve been a few places overseas. I’ve seen what tyranny and oppression can do to humans. And I despise those who make apologies for “evil” regimes, no matter who they are. I despise them, but I must also live with them, because killing or maiming them is not very civilized or neighborly. I’m polite to my liberal neighbors that way. LOL.
The thing which draws my ire the most is using the lives of American soldiers as pawns for political sport. I believe our government gets one chance to dissent from going to war. Once a vote is taken to go into combat, you DO NOT STOP for anyone or anything until Victory is won. If we intend to win by playing nice with the locals (Counterinsurgency operations) then we must accept far larger numbers of casualties than if we will accept only unconditional surrender. If war is to be waged, we must accept the casualties of the strategy we choose to employ and support or we must go whole hog and bomb anyone and everyone who opposes our Victory into the Stone Age, killing everyone who stands in our path to ultimate Peace. Students of Warfare know that our enemies will only be Defeated when they lose the Will to Fight On. That only happens when Death is assured of them and their entire family and culture, or when their minds get changed by the Enlightenment, Courage, and Justice of the American Soldier and Citizens who protect them with one hand, and raise them up with the other.
I also firmly believe that my money is mine to spend and its uses are my choices to make. I am not against charity for those who need it, but I believe in providing a job and letting someone earn their keep instead of giving them money for no return. Their self esteem is the only way to turn them into winners there.
As far as Health Care, Social Security, Alms for the Poor, and whether gay men and women should be able to plug each other for fun, I am totally agnostic. Live and let live as far as I’m concerned. Do no harm to others and I don’t care what you consent to do.
I believe a fetus is a child at conception and deserves protection, but that a mother may choose to destroy it, and the state has little right to prevent her. She should have to live with her murders over her entire life and suffer the consequences herself no matter how young or how poor she is. No one, including the Lord Almighty, or Ronald Reagan, told me Life was Fair. It just is, and bad things happen to Good People, including unborn children and unwed mothers. What doesn’t kill them makes them stronger, and better people, in the end. The Law of Unintended Consequences applies here.
You’re a smart guy and a reasonable person. You’ll go far.
But I still say Allah has surprised me and I wonder who pissed in his cornflakes this am. LOL.
Subsunk
Subsunk on September 10, 2009 at 7:05 PM
To say “isn’t enough fraud prevention” doesn’t even come close to describing an intentional effort to avoid any fraud prevention. Things are left out (as the amendments were EXPLICITLY rejected) in order to leave loopholes for millions to run through. This is planned. As I said, this is nothing new. We all know the game.
Look, the morons who keep saying “46 million uninsured Americans” when 10 million of those aren’t Americans and are illegal aliens should say more to you than anything.
Illegals will get coverage and many will come to get coverage. It is silly to play dumb when we have seen this same script played out time and time again.
progressoverpeace on September 10, 2009 at 7:06 PM
“The biggest Liar any of us will ever see, watched us shave our own faces in the mirror this morning.” We own our own Integrity. Mr. Obama needs to value his more than he does.
Well said, Mike.
Subsunk
Subsunk on September 10, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Couldn’t agree more, MB4. I love Mrs. West’s columns. She’s on the bullseye on that one.
Subsunk
Subsunk on September 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM
Am I missing something or are they already covered, and will always be covered, unless we start checking papers at the ER. There is already talk about getting rid of the law that allows local and/or state law enforcement to be deputized to that end. Are we to believe this congress and this administration are now going to deputize the security gaurd or intake nurse at the ER to make sure illegals don’t get care? Bottom line, it doesn’t matter what is in the bill that is ultimately passed, they will always be able to come out of the shadows and make their way into the ER.
dookphan on September 10, 2009 at 7:21 PM
THE GOP IS THROUGH AS A NATIONAL PARTY!!!
If these cajones-free D.C. Lifetime re-elected politicians have courage they have not shown it.
Examples (limited for space sake to within the last 24 hrs)?
Not walking out on the Liar at the podium.
The party forcing Joe Wilson to not only apologize but to HAVE HIM CALL the White House, and give them the opportunity to not let him talk to Barry but his C.O.S. Rahm Emmanuel.
Not having anyone to rebut him but the boring Rep from Louisiana (who thanks the President for coming to address Congress).
The GOP doesn’t deserve to Lead this country anymore.
THROW THEM ALL OUT OF OFFICE AND START OVER!!!
PappyD61 on September 10, 2009 at 7:35 PM
I do have small points of disagreement with you (unfortunately I don’t have time now to spell them out), but that whole post of yours was well done and pretty damn inspirational.
Also, I appreciate the compliment (I’m not a guy though; note the name, haha).
And as far as Allah’s cornflakes, I wonder who sullied them, too. Ha!
Take care :)
EarthToZoey on September 10, 2009 at 7:44 PM
…all under the oversight of big-brother, “If you misrepresent the plan, we will call you out.” So do you want to play, or do you want to beat up your opposition, Obouncer??
LEBA on September 10, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Your name could be any gender in today’s world. I try not to judge too early. It gets me in trouble. Besides the only way I am ever sure anymore is when I see the other person in “swimwear”. LOL. That still has some defining characteristics, thank God.
Vive la Difference’
Subsunk out.
Subsunk on September 10, 2009 at 10:45 PM
His policies are wrong in part because they require explicit TRUST in the government and government-delegated authority, which always leads to abuse of power. A good example of why that TRUST would be misplaced is Obama’s chronic, irresponsible lies about how the program would work.
Everybody hates “corrupt public officials” but if you’re too decent to name names, what’s the use?
And I don’t know how you figure we’d have nothing to say if we derail Obama. The next socialist is going to be a thief and a liar, too. Because Socialism is about stealing based on lies.
Chris_Balsz on September 11, 2009 at 9:47 AM
So you openly admit here that the current bills do not include illegal immigrants. Thus, Obama was right and Wilson was wrong.
You’re worrying about some slippery slope. Okay, fine. If that’s what you’re so worried about, stop defending Joe Wilson’s lie and start pushing for “no illegal immigrants” guarantees to be put in the bill.
I mean, if you really care about the substance of the issue, then it makes more sense to push for those substantive reforms than push for support of a guy who you agree is not being honest.
orange on September 11, 2009 at 12:05 PM
You mean like the clauses originally inserted in the HR 3200 bill which were removed by D staffers which established penalties for extending the govt health care programs to illegal aliens. You mean like those clauses removed by Dhimmicrats already.
……..Oh, our mistake!
Next time you really should let us know when you weren’t being serious and really intended to prevent illegals from getting free US health care after all.
/
Don’t agree with you that Mr. Wilson is being dishonest.
Subsunk
Subsunk on September 11, 2009 at 1:12 PM
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