Senate ObamaCare bill fines families $3800 per year for ignoring mandate
posted at 5:25 pm on September 9, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) released his general plan for the Senate version of ObamaCare yesterday, and it portends some hefty costs for American families. Baucus stripped out the public option but left in place individual mandates to buy insurance — and backed them with big fines, administered by the IRS. Each family could pay up to $3800 per year for failing to get government-approved coverage:
A bipartisan group of senators huddled in the afternoon to decide whether to move forward on an overhaul plan that Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D., Mont.) began circulating over the weekend. The plan includes some of the stiffest penalties Congress has proposed for Americans who don’t carry health insurance coverage.
Sen. Baucus emerged from a meeting with the six-member bipartisan group saying he had given his colleagues until 10 a.m. Wednesday to provide feedback on his draft. The group will meet again Wednesday afternoon in an attempt to come up with an agreement before Mr. Obama’s address.
Under the plan, people who earn between 100% and 300% of the poverty level (or between about $22,000 a year and $66,000 a year for a family of four) would face fees ranging from $750 to $1,500 a year.
For taxpayers with incomes above 300% of poverty, the penalty starts at $950 a year and reaches as high as $3,800 for families. Nearly 12 million people fit in this category, according to the National Institute for Health Care Management.
Individual mandates are bad enough, at least constitutionally speaking. States have insurance mandates for drivers, but those are predicated on accessing public roads, not private enterprise. The courts should make minced meat out of an argument that Congress has the power to compel citizens to buy insurance for any reason, let alone health insurance.
But the problem here goes beyond the mandate, and even beyond the fine. Who will manage this mandate? Who determines the validity or non-validity of insurance coverage? That bastion of medical knowledge, the Internal Revenue Service. Taxpayers will have to provide proof of insurance from the previous tax year to avoid the fines. If the IRS doesn’t consider the coverage adequate, families could be out the cost of the coverage and the fine. They can appeal any negative verdicts, of course … to the IRS.
The IRS hasn’t the expertise, nor the flexibility, to manage the nation’s health-insurance coverages. This is a tremendously bad idea. As I wrote earlier, who in this country believes that the IRS doesn’t intrude enough into their lives?









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Yeah, I’ve got their fine right here. Come and take it.
elduende on September 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM
You can’t afford to buy insurance, we’ll fine you $3800 for not buying it.
What?
lorien1973 on September 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM
I can always op’ed out of buying and driving a car….
Caper29 on September 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM
Take it, a$$munch. I don’t have it. What are you going to do, put a lien on my house? Will you take mortage money from my bank account? Will you garnish my wages?
How will you theive from me? I I just wanna know. Cause, you know, I’m stupid.
Key West Reader on September 9, 2009 at 5:30 PM
I can’t believe these morons in the Senate haven’t gotten the message yet.
CambellBrown on September 9, 2009 at 5:30 PM
this is the moderate bill
rob verdi on September 9, 2009 at 5:30 PM
Well, a 38k fine should help the poor.
Spirit of 1776 on September 9, 2009 at 5:30 PM
er 3.8K. Sorry for the typo.
Spirit of 1776 on September 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM
So, I have to give up my privacy by giving the feds access to my medical records and give them access to my bank account.
It is never going to happen.
Blake on September 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Ed, find the 5 page summary bullet points of “revenue raisers” in this bill that Rush talked about today in hour 3.
You will be shocked/amazed/disgusted.
aquaviva on September 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Yeah, it makes perfect sense to take money away from people who already can’t afford to buy something. So next year, when you’ve just about made up for what they’ve taken away and are sooo close to going out and getting that insurance…. well, I’m sure that cycle of non-insurance will fix itself somehow.
Scrappy on September 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM
I am too stupid to make any decision in life.
/democrat voter
daesleeper on September 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Interesting that Obama and the State Run Media haven’t touched on this subject yet.
Who will manage the program…?
Just sit back, relax, it will be OK, Obama says so…
Seven Percent Solution on September 9, 2009 at 5:32 PM
from my cold dead hands they will get it
ConservativePartyNow on September 9, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Another thought: A family of 4 who has 2 parents working just to make it through a month of bills. Will the $3800 a year be garnished from their wages and then force Mom or Dad into 2nd or third jobs? Or, will they just raid the day care fund of the children? Or perhaps the pantry? Maybe the car payment will have to go.
Benevolent dictators. Please, answer the peasants.
Key West Reader on September 9, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Max, Dick Cheney is going hunting this weekend. I think you should go with him. The fresh air might do you some good.
Jussi on September 9, 2009 at 5:32 PM
saving money by charging you more. I wonder how well insurance companies would do profit-wise if they could pull this trick like the government. It is amazing that these people point to private insurance companies as crooks while they pick the pocket of every American at will.
ThackerAgency on September 9, 2009 at 5:32 PM
I can choose to carry only liability on my vehicles, or I can stop driving them certain seasons and save the cost of insuring.
The ‘rats just can’t help but make war against the American people.
Bishop on September 9, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Has Mr. Obama commited any health care plan to a document? I keep hearing about his plan and Obamacare, but I have never seen Obama’s actual plan.
daesleeper on September 9, 2009 at 5:33 PM
who scares you more? a. insurance company, b. IRS
ThackerAgency on September 9, 2009 at 5:33 PM
This idea is beyond stupid, Max should be run out of town.
Amadeus on September 9, 2009 at 5:33 PM
These people both disgust and terrify me.
Blake on September 9, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Senate ObamaCare bill fines families $3800 per year for ignoring mandate
MB4 on September 9, 2009 at 5:34 PM
$3800 is the fine for doing nothing.
That them becomes the floor for the cheapest of the plans to be offered for any health insurance.
aquaviva on September 9, 2009 at 5:34 PM
How many Black Panthers and ACORN thugs are they willing to lose to come and pick up the fine?
elduende on September 9, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Are the Democrats that blasted blind to not see that the vast majority of the American people do not this idiotic healthcare bill passed and if it does past, every single Democrat from Pelosi on down who votes for it will be commiting political suicide as far as their careers in Congress go?
Are these people that blind?!!!
pilamaye on September 9, 2009 at 5:34 PM
But illegal aliens will still be able to walk into any Emergency Room on our dime as well…
… and Unions and Bureaucrats are exempt.
Seven Percent Solution on September 9, 2009 at 5:34 PM
I checked. Google maps won’t give driving directions from here to Honduras.
Daggett on September 9, 2009 at 5:35 PM
Rangel, Geithner, Daschle, etc.
malclave on September 9, 2009 at 5:35 PM
This bill is going to be a huge windfall for the insurance companies and Big Pharma, while the rest of us take it in the behind.
The Dean on September 9, 2009 at 5:35 PM
Prediction:
100% FAIL. On all levels. These clowns can’t get their thoughts or collective minds together with regards to their plans to sh*t on WE the People.
EPIC FAIL.
And Obama will be on his knees begging for a second chance to govern us. Question is: Will we grant this &$*%^%# a second chance?
I say no.
Key West Reader on September 9, 2009 at 5:35 PM
You know, I actually like the IRS less than I like Congress, which is really saying something. I also trust the IRS less than I trust Congress, which too, is saying something.
myrenovations on September 9, 2009 at 5:36 PM
never quite grasping that OgabeCare will in the end simply raise prices on all Americans by a minimum of 3800 bucks.
sven10077 on September 9, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Aside from the question of what authority does the Congress have to force citizens to buy insurance, people making several hundred thousand dollars a year might simply decide that they don’t need insurance, they can afford to pay out of pocket. Why must they have something they do not want?
The sad thing is that large parts of the political class think they have the right to decide for others while exempting themselves from the same rules. There is a revolution coming.
johnsteele on September 9, 2009 at 5:36 PM
“Senate ObamaCare bill fines families $3800 per year for ignoring mandate”
Is this even constitutional??
GFW on September 9, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Big revelation, Gang. I got my Insurance License in December after 30 years in Corporate Communications. I didn’t know I was evil until this Adminstration told me so.
kingsjester on September 9, 2009 at 5:37 PM
This really infuriates me. If I choose to save my money and pay for my health care out of pocket, and only buy insurance for catastrophic coverage, how the heck can the government force me to buy some expensive, gov’t-mandated policy that covers all the politically correct illnesses of the day? This is just wrong.
mbs on September 9, 2009 at 5:37 PM
I refuse. I will be damned if they make me get this crap. They can fine me all they want but I still refuse. Up yours, Maxie Pad Baucus, Piglosi, Dingy Harry and you too, Obongo.
Ceroth on September 9, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Should this piece pass in any way, expect a whole new Internet business which produces IRS-passable certificates of insurance for another such business who has private agreements with doctors and hospitals.
On second thought, this alone will destroy the Democrat party. Bring it on.
TXUS on September 9, 2009 at 5:37 PM
+1 beat me by 2 minutes….nice
sven10077 on September 9, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Do we taxpayers still get to pay for Maxie’s Cadillac insurance (including the extra taxes he would impose on insurers)?
Buy Danish on September 9, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Oh, you have a copy of next year’s “enhancements” to Obamacare.
johnsteele on September 9, 2009 at 5:39 PM
I wonder if this fine applies to the members of Congress as well?
/s
rukiddingme on September 9, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Come and take it!
Dusty on September 9, 2009 at 5:39 PM
The insurance companies are heavily in favor of the bill because of the individual and employer mandates. They’re every bit as evil as the politicians.
The Dean on September 9, 2009 at 5:39 PM
And at least car insurance is based on what you’d owe someone else for destroying their car, and even then, you only have to prove that you can pay for whatever you break; it doesn’t necessarily have to be an insurance plan.
Esthier on September 9, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Heard this too. This bill has way more shockers than just the health care portions. This is rife with fines and reversals of tax credits. The “revenue raisers” will cause taxes to skyrocket on everything.
BakerAllie on September 9, 2009 at 5:40 PM
You will assimilate.
Fletch54 on September 9, 2009 at 5:40 PM
How is this going to help put gas in my car and pay my mortgage?
How is this not considered raising taxes on the poor?
Come get it bitches…but come prepared. I will be.
PappaMac on September 9, 2009 at 5:40 PM
This is so ridiculous. On one hand, they want to subsidize everyone up to $66,000 and on the other they want to fine them. God, what a mess.
Terrye on September 9, 2009 at 5:41 PM
This is nothing less than a Citizenship Tax ……where the f^%$& does the Constitution give the fed’s the right to impose a GD Citizenship Tax?
David in ATL on September 9, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Cheer up, Obama says you are not quite as evil as the doctors.
myrenovations on September 9, 2009 at 5:41 PM
“If you make less than $250,000, your taxes will not go up one nickel. We will fine you instead.”
Nuance.
Rhinoboy on September 9, 2009 at 5:41 PM
And, it’s tentacles reach its way into every aspect of personal life.
It’s a nightmare and if brought to wide attention will torpedo the bill.
I’m looking for it.
aquaviva on September 9, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Millons of families are barely making ends meet and these asshats want to take more money? All they are showing is their total contempt for the average citizen.
Torch on September 9, 2009 at 5:43 PM
How is taking $3,800 from me going to put gas in my car and pay my mortgage like Obama promised?
How is the $3,800 not considered a tax increase on the poor?
Come and get it boys and girls, but come prepared. I will be!!
PappaMac on September 9, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Sounds pretty much like Romney’s plan: compel private citizens, through threat of fines or imprisonment, to purchase insurance, then announce that you’ve acheived “universal” coverage. It’s like fining people for not buying groceries and then claiming you’ve done away with starvation forever.
shawk on September 9, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Won’t pay the fine. I’ll even intentionally drop myself from my insurance policy. Screw them. I’d rather go to jail than pay that fine, or tax, or whatever they call it.
Andy in Colorado on September 9, 2009 at 5:44 PM
MB4:
Public flogging is not humiliating enough, we need to bring back the stocks. Or perhaps a scarlet U for uninsured.
Terrye on September 9, 2009 at 5:44 PM
How about I stop paying taxes altogether and you stop spending, because you have NO MONEY? How would that work for you, suckas!
HornetSting on September 9, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Except they don’t have the power, so they’re not the threat.
Esthier on September 9, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Yes. But those who don’t own cars are not mandated to buy auto insurance. Not everyone MUST pay for auto insurance.
But since we all have human bodies, the authoritarian dictators in Washington have determined not only that we must purchase health insurance, catastrophic coverage for instance, but that we must purchase exactly as much (MORE) that the HR3200 and the IRS deem we must have, whether or not we can afford the mandated premiums.
Many lower income families will be required to take out loans to pay for the mandated coverage, loans at high interest rates given the inevitable inflation that would be horrible enough even without the ruined dollar that Obama bankrupted and the UN removes from international trade.
maverick muse on September 9, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Bite me – I would make them fine me and then sue the pants off of them.
I have the Constitution on my side – what do they have?
gophergirl on September 9, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Will they tattoo the insurance certificate number on our wrists?
d1carter on September 9, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Them versus us.
Buy Danish on September 9, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Cheer up, Obama says you are not quite as evil as the doctors.
myrenovations on September 9, 2009 at 5:41 PM
LOL. Well, that’s comforting. I was at a Chamber of Commerce Luncheon today listening to a PhD who runs a Wellness at the Worksite Program for the state lecture us on the costs of Healthcare. It went over like a lead balloon.
kingsjester on September 9, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Wait. Stop me if you’ve heard this one, “There will be no tax raises on anyone making less than $250,000…” So, what? We’ll just call them mandates and fines and compulsory compliance, and no one will know the difference?
Ugh. Seriously. Does this guy have NO cognitive coherence at all?
UnderstandingisPower on September 9, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Fine the industries that actually save people’s lives.
Brilliant – NOT!
gophergirl on September 9, 2009 at 5:49 PM
I’m assuming it will be some kind of implanted chip, kind of a mark of the beast kind of thing.
UnderstandingisPower on September 9, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Look the gubmint needs money, that is all this is. A way to take more money. Card Check is the same. The union pensions are underfunded. They need card check to get more dues. The union pensions are like SS a ponzi at this time.
jharada on September 9, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Are they going to bring back Debtor’s prison? Cause I currently have no healthcare insurance, haven’t for almost 5 years, and I’ve no plans to buy any at the moment–nor could I afford the $3,800 fine.
Enoxo on September 9, 2009 at 5:50 PM
From Sweetness and Light: The “Revenue Raisers” in the Baucus Bill
As read by Rush Limbaugh today.
It’s unbelievable.
aquaviva on September 9, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Right after Barry signs away the dollar to his new best friends the UN and their global currency.
gophergirl on September 9, 2009 at 5:51 PM
I’m sure administrating this will mean that ObamaCare will have lower administrative costs than insurance companies – right? Just like we’re being promised to get the supposed savings from a public option?
gwelf on September 9, 2009 at 5:51 PM
I have nothing to worry about. I am a member of AARP!!!
Armed
And
Really
Pissed
milwife88 on September 9, 2009 at 5:51 PM
OT but important. Senate just voted cloture on Sunsteen confirmation as Regulatory Czar 63-35. Vote coming up next. Get ready to lose hunting rights and your dog or the rat in your cellar having the ability to sue you.
Moses99 on September 9, 2009 at 5:51 PM
And what if they ignore the fine?
Confiscation of property? Wages garnished?
What if they quit their jobs, grow gardens and eat their own food, make fires to stay warm and still refuse to pay the fine?
Arrest? Imprisonment?
Sounds like great health care.
JellyToast on September 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Oh, you can afford it but you’re just a selfish, greedy bastard who won’t do their fare share to subsidize everyone elses health insurance by paying to be in the pool!!!!eleventy!!!one111!11!1
/SARC
gwelf on September 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Arguably, they have more power financially to buy off pols and take out advertising to try to pass ObamaCare.
The Dean on September 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Nice health insurance policy you got there…shame if anything happened to it.
DrW on September 9, 2009 at 5:53 PM
moses99: i’m watching beck, too about the cloture vote on susstein.
kelley in virginia on September 9, 2009 at 5:54 PM
Yet another argument for the FairTax. If the IRS doesn’t exist, they won’t be able to steal sh*t from us.
Dave R. on September 9, 2009 at 5:55 PM
These “revenue raisers” alone will decimate the domestic oil and natural gas industry.
aquaviva on September 9, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Right, Kelley…sure hope whatever Glenn is breaking tomorrow is BIG
Moses99 on September 9, 2009 at 5:57 PM
I’d think that wage garnishment would be there first weapon of choice. But they love to sieze bank accounts at the IRS. And their absolute favorite trick is snatching your tax refund.
On the more insidious side? Withhold your social security disability or retirement check. Ban you from participating in any Federal programs like FHA, VA or USDA loans, farm subsidies, student loans, etc.
Believe me, the IRS hires people who just love this stuff, too. Absolute sadists.
DrW on September 9, 2009 at 5:57 PM
They’ll take it from any existing assets you have. Got a few hundred in the bank, holding on to pay the mortgage that month? Say bye-bye. The IRS gets theirs first.
Liam on September 9, 2009 at 5:58 PM
KILL THE BILL
rjoco1 on September 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM
So according to you, Dean, insurance companies are evil, but Hitler did some bad things probably.
Riiiiiiiight.
Mary in LA on September 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM
From the Bill:
- Eliminate Oil and Gas Company Preferences
- Levy Tax on Certain Offshore Oil and Gas Production
- Repeal Credit for Enhanced Oil Recovery (EOR) Projects
- Repeal Credit for Production from Marginal Wells
- Repeal Expensing of Intangible Drilling Costs
- Repeal Passive Loss Exception for Working Interests in Oil and Gas Properties
- Repeal Domestic Manufacturing Deduction for Oil and Gas Production
Say hello to skyrocketing gas prices and more dependance on terrorist-supporting oil-farm countries!
BakerAllie on September 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Lol, I see we are on the same page my friend. :)
BakerAllie on September 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM
This is nothing but an across the board stealth tax increase from Hell.
Dave R. on September 9, 2009 at 6:00 PM
That’s Marxist Economics/Utopian theory for ya. Spread the
wealthhealth around on a level playing field which leaves everyone equally miserable.Buy Danish on September 9, 2009 at 6:00 PM
All those people who don’t even TRY to live a healthy life, who over-indulge in booze and drugs, who like taking risks, or who regularly stiff hospitals and clinics and thus CONTRIBUTE to the high cost of medical care will be encouraged to continue such destructive ways.
But those of us who take responsibility for ourselves and pay our medical bills without insurance, will be FINED.
Astonishing.
itsacookbook on September 9, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Niiiice! Probably
thomasaur on September 9, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Don’t laugh. Government pulls that crap all the time. They also tack on fees and penalty assessments on top of fines.
Blake on September 9, 2009 at 6:01 PM
(Laughing)….exactly.
I know how dependent domestic drillers are on those features to attract investors.
aquaviva on September 9, 2009 at 6:02 PM
The judges.
Liam on September 9, 2009 at 6:03 PM
Didn’t I say before that the “probably” was a typo?
The Dean on September 9, 2009 at 6:04 PM
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