Video: Manson murders, 40 years later
posted at 8:50 am on September 5, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Why do the Manson murders continue to fascinate after 40 years? We have seen murderers since then who have killed more (John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy) and more gruesomely (Jeffrey Dahmer), but none of them have the same drawing power as Charles Manson and “The Family”. One can see this in the sometimes lurid questions that Larry King asks Linda Kasabian, the witness most responsible for putting Manson and his four murderous followers behind bars for life, as well as some probing questions about her role as an accomplice on two straight nights of slaughter. This clip runs almost twenty minutes, but it’s worth it to get more insight into the one Manson Family member that refused to murder:
I first read Helter Skelter as a teenager, perhaps seven years or so after the murders themselves, and I still recall the details about which King seemed fuzzy in this interview. Vincent Bugliosi remains very, very protective of Kasabian to this day; it doesn’t take Manson’s prosecutor very long at all to leap to her defense and start telling her what to say to King, in a manner that may be slightly more charming than annoyingly condescending. King treats Kasabian with respect but still asks some tough questions, such as her willingness to go out on the second night when the LaBiancas got murdered, and the length of time it took to call the police. Kasabian gives good answers on these questions, but Bugliosi makes sure he argues her case on each of them as well.
So what’s the fascination? I think it’s a mixture of the free-love nature of the Manson commune, the extreme nature of the disconnect between that free-love sensibility and the butchery inflicted on their victims, and the notion of Manson as a “Mephistophelean guru,” as one person put it at the time. Other killers did their work themselves, but Manson gained control of people to the extent that he made them willing killers on his whim. That’s much more rare than serial killers, and thankfully so.
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Thankfully, not all of The Family are still evil:
http://www.manson2jesus.com/charles_watson.htm
I think he should continue to do his time, but I’m glad his heart has changed.
jgapinoy on September 5, 2009 at 8:57 AM
I also read Helter Skelter and was fascinated by the case. I doubt it was the first multi victim murder but it involve the rich and famous so I am sure it got more press. Ever since that book, I have been unable to read books about famous cases. I don’t know if it is because I don’t think I should be interested in the specifics or if it seems to be giving legitimacy to the genre. I realize it is very weird of me but there are worse things to be neurotic about.
Cindy Munford on September 5, 2009 at 8:58 AM
I remember the murders quite well. Dirty rotten hippies.
Typical druggie lefties. Steal & murder. They’re the same now except they don’t have pony tails, they wear business suits.
Jeff from WI on September 5, 2009 at 9:03 AM
I made Ed write this piece with my powers.
blatantblue on September 5, 2009 at 9:04 AM
Cindy,
Interesting. I actually liked the true-crime genre for a while afterward, but finally gave up on it. I think when you’re young, tragedy is fascinating, but after you get a real taste of it in life, it becomes a lot less fascinating.
Ed Morrissey on September 5, 2009 at 9:04 AM
I await your next command.
Ed Morrissey on September 5, 2009 at 9:05 AM
That’s an interesting viewpoint; I think I continue to read all the crime books because in some way I feel like, if I can get into the criminals head, I can spot and avoid them better. (just call me Nancy Drew)
anniekc on September 5, 2009 at 9:07 AM
I was 11 when this happened and I can remember it all. I read the book yrs later. I just cannot get over how Manson convinced these kids to kill…and his misinterpreting the Beatles music. Its hard to fathom. Manson is evil..and he has the crazy eyes.
becki51758 on September 5, 2009 at 9:08 AM
I find these books carry today even more salience as a way to understand better our current White House and Congress.
TXUS on September 5, 2009 at 9:11 AM
Manson was a wimp compared to Dahmer & Gein. Wisconsin makes the best famous gruesome killers.
Jeff from WI on September 5, 2009 at 9:12 AM
The conscience is a fragile implant.
The savage id a robust, natural appendage.
We only rise by nurturing the former and reining-in the latter.
Manson merely fed the inborn beast.
profitsbeard on September 5, 2009 at 9:15 AM
I find the true crime genre interesting especially viewed in an historical context. My wife has done genealogical research for years and has an extensive collection of 19th Century newspapers. Eventually she found the stories of crimes so compelling that she published a book about true crime against ordinary people throughout the 19th Century. We have progressed technologically but people are still the same. They have just advanced from axe murders and straight razors to guns and knives. Fascinating to read though.
Moses99 on September 5, 2009 at 9:16 AM
Charles Manson and his goons should of been lined up against the wall,and a firing squad detail at the ready,
and then promptly executed!!
canopfor on September 5, 2009 at 9:18 AM
Robert Heinlien had a statement in ‘Time enough for Love” that always struck me as true.
“The pacifist is the first to hual up the Jolly Roger”
Pacifists deny the violence in their nature so they are very vulnerable to it with little or no internal controls. They are easy to manipulate and Manson was superb manipulator.
RAH on September 5, 2009 at 9:20 AM
Ooooohhh- especially in that, creepy, “let me gain your trust, and then I’m going to do really bad things to you, way”. Good observation.
anniekc on September 5, 2009 at 9:21 AM
The reason that Manson still fascinates was that he exhibited such power over his followers.
Dahmler did not have that power. He was evil but a sole practioner. Manson could make others commit evil.
RAH on September 5, 2009 at 9:22 AM
Loved Nancy Drew when I was kid back in the olden days. Obviously her mysteries weren’t the lurid tales of today. I still watch shows that talk about recent cases so I guess I am still interested to a degree. But you are right, it is more about the process of solving the crime then the criminal.
Cindy Munford on September 5, 2009 at 9:23 AM
While I appreciate your team spirit, I am sure the Chamber of Commerce will not be including this in their next ad campaign to promote your state.
Cindy Munford on September 5, 2009 at 9:26 AM
Let us recall what a good friend and neighbor of the First Couple, Bernadette Dohrn, once said:
TXUS on September 5, 2009 at 9:26 AM
LOL..you think we can get the license plates changed from,”America’s Dairyland” to “Serial Killerland”?
Jeff from WI on September 5, 2009 at 9:28 AM
Why is this on Hot Air?
modifiedcontent on September 5, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Why the fascination?
“Charlie was the ultimate community organizer, man, he got these children of the bourgeoisie to go out and change the world.
Their world revolution, through race war, didn’t come off, but the dude was tuned into some crazy karma”
This maniac was in love with death and violence and that appeals to some base instinct in the godless. Norman Mailer was fascinated with the violent insane. They were going to topple insincere, capitalist and selfish USA. That’s the fascination with a dangerous minority. The majority of the fascinated just like gawking at freaks.
wraithby on September 5, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Because Ed da Man!
TXUS on September 5, 2009 at 9:32 AM
I read Helter Skelter alone at night while my husband was working…scared the crap out of me.
I got into the true crime genre for a while too, but the book that started me was Fatal Vision by Joe MacGinnis.
It’s been years since I’ve read true crime…too much of the horror sticks with you.
surrounded on September 5, 2009 at 9:34 AM
You can give it a shot but expect people to start shying away from your company.
Cindy Munford on September 5, 2009 at 9:34 AM
I’m still trying to figure out what “titian hair” is!
anniekc on September 5, 2009 at 9:36 AM
Maybe it’s that groovy self-inflicted carving on Manson’s forehead.
Jerome Horwitz on September 5, 2009 at 9:38 AM
I never got into Nancy Drew–loved Trixie Belden, who was like Nancy Drew…
I was 19 when the murders happened, just entering my heyday of “hippeedom”. Thinking that all hippee’s were like “Woodstock” (I’m from Iowa), I remember being shocked that people who were supposedly about love and peace, could be so bizarre…That’s when I started waking up–soon after that the Weathermen and SDS started–I lost my political innocense that year…
lovingmyUSA on September 5, 2009 at 9:39 AM
We don’t have a epidemic of pacifist crime. Charlie’s girls were all on drugs and most came from broken homes. Manson was able to step in, in part, due to the lack of an effective father in the lives of Kasabian, Van Houten, Atkins, Fromme.
dedalus on September 5, 2009 at 9:40 AM
innocence–damn, need spell check
lovingmyUSA on September 5, 2009 at 9:40 AM
I understand Manson makes huge loot in prison selling his autograph to fellow adoring inmates.
Wonder if Van Jones bought a graf while he was doing time?
TXUS on September 5, 2009 at 9:41 AM
Read ‘In Cold Blood”–that was enough for me! *shiver*
lovingmyUSA on September 5, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Maybe it’s that groovy self-inflicted carving on Manson’s forehead.
Jerome Horwitz on September 5, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Nancy Pelosi’s vision of all TownHallers!
Moses99 on September 5, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Seriously, WTH!!!
Cindy Munford on September 5, 2009 at 9:42 AM
I was fifteen, I never bought into the peace and love crowd but I think the very pregnant Sharon Tate was the part that pulled me in. It takes a special kind of creep to do something like that. Now I realize that all the deaths were equally horrific and devastating.
Cindy Munford on September 5, 2009 at 9:49 AM
Not to get side-tracked but Bugliosi went off the rails recently with an absurd book charging Bush with first degree murder. During his tour of the book he talked about associates wishing that “Someone put a bullet in that guy’s head”. That guy being Bush.
Apparently he wasn’t outraged at the suggestions.
Yeah, it didn’t start with Beck.
SteveMG on September 5, 2009 at 9:49 AM
I’m assuming they’ve updated the lingo from the original books, but after my daughter read the originals that I’d kept from my childhood, she kept asking me when I was going to get her a “snappy blue roadster”. Nancy may not have had a mother, but she had a pretty luxe life!
anniekc on September 5, 2009 at 9:53 AM
In the days before parental controls on TV, I saw, at the tender age of 11, both Helter Skelter and In Cold Blood. I slept with my parents for about three years and suffered an irrational fear of someone breaking in to my house for about the next thirty.
Kafir on September 5, 2009 at 10:00 AM
The gallows were invented for “people” such as these. Not for pickpockets, horse thieves and debtors as the Leftists would have us believe.
Thanks to the Libtards, ACLU and the misguided Bible thumping radicals that these monsters are still breathing our air.
Dr. ZhivBlago on September 5, 2009 at 10:01 AM
I never read the book, but did see the movie Helter Skelter when i was a kid and it scared the hell out of me. I think Ed’s right, the fascination comes from the way people percieve Manson himself. For years, he was the ultimate boogeyman who could make you do his bidding if you so much as looked at him and that swastika on his forehead. I can remember when Manson gave his first tv interview sometime in the late 70’s or early 80’s, it was a big deal. Now he’s just another old man in prison.
clearbluesky on September 5, 2009 at 10:06 AM
I don’t know. She seems pretty robotic to me. The fact that she was there, “sharing” that animal with other women, suggests a deep sociopathic flaw. I think she cooperated to keep her kid and stay out of jail.
Rational Thought on September 5, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Well, every teenager can’t have a guilt ridden dad buying extravagant presents to make up for an absent mother. Hmmmmm, what happened to Nancy’s mom and why was dad so guilty? It’s a mystery.
Cindy Munford on September 5, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Titian [tish-un]
Adjective
(of hair) reddish-yellow [from Titian, Italian painter, because he often used this hair colour in his paintings]
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
Titian
Originally Tiziano Vecellio. 1488?-1576.
Italian painter who introduced vigorous colors and the compositional use of backgrounds to the Venetian school. His works include the altarpiece The Assumption of the Virgin (1518).
Greyledge Gal on September 5, 2009 at 10:09 AM
I don’t know, he could still be the illustration next to creepy or scary in my dictionary. Just because I could kick his butt now doesn’t take away that he is the personification of evil. I am sure lack of remorse has a lot to do with that.
Cindy Munford on September 5, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Fascination in this case is because of the miscarriage of justice that keeps reminding us of it. The death sentance that was commuted gave Manson life WITH parole rather than without. He keeps coming up for parole and Sharon Tate’s mother has to relive the horror every time.
TwilightAuthor on September 5, 2009 at 10:16 AM
Thanks for the info- can’t wait to toss out “titian hair” in some random conversation someday!
anniekc on September 5, 2009 at 10:19 AM
The fascination is that they’re still alive to give interviews. Bundy, et al. are dead.
Ricohoc on September 5, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Becauase it was a Lord of the Flies scenario. Normal, fairly educated kids turn into blodthirsty psychpaths when seperated from societal morals, standards and pressure. A microcosm of where the left and post modern moral relativists are leading us. They think they are taking us towards utopia when in truth they are pushing us over the edge into chaos and societal disintegration. All you enlightened people who think morals and standards and taboos are outdated and the result of some dysfunctional prior paternalistic hierarchy are incapable of understanding that those things evolved from biological and natural sources and came into place to protect the species. The issues, problems and consequences still exist and despite those who put humans above all natural laws and believe humans are smart enough and strong enough to avoid the consequences of destructive behavior need only to take a look at the late 70’s and early 80’s and the aids virus to understand that only behavioral control and logical societal standards can protect against natures fury.
peacenprosperity on September 5, 2009 at 10:20 AM
That would be especially effective in preventing tailgating, I think.
Mr. D on September 5, 2009 at 10:22 AM
For me it was the incongruity of these attractive girls from middle class families in thrall of a deranged psychopath. How’d he do that?
Ted Torgerson on September 5, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Manson kills a few celebrities and is in jail for life and called a madman. “Doctors” kill babies every day and half the women in this country call them heroes.
Not really much difference. We’re dealing in semantics.
Jeff from WI on September 5, 2009 at 10:29 AM
When is comes right down to it. Obama voting to support killing a baby that survived an abortion attempt, by leaving it in a linen closet, isn’t really any more horrible than what Manson’s family did.
Jeff from WI on September 5, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Sharon’s mother showed up at every parole hearing for years, and also started a foundation to support and promote crime victims’ rights, but she passed away a few years ago. Sharon’s only surviving sister is now the one who bears the burden of attending the parole hearings. (Sharon’s two younger sisters had asked Sharon if they could spend the night at her house on the night of the murders. Sharon, who was 8-1/2 months pregnant, was tired and told the girls they’d do it another night — unknowingly saving their lives.)
AZCoyote on September 5, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Vincent Bugliosi went off the deep end years ago.
There was nothing free about the sex nor was it loving. It was drug induced, prostitution, and the result of pressure from sick group dynamics. Frankly, most people in groups are weak.
I live near the LaBianca house. For two whole blocks most houses have these huge disproportionate fences.
I think Kasabian shouldn’t be giving interviews. She didn’t slaughter anyone but she was also part of the gang and went along. She should be ashamed.
Blake on September 5, 2009 at 10:54 AM
It’s tough for the company to shy away when they are bound and gagged in Jeff’s trunk….
JeffinOrlando on September 5, 2009 at 10:55 AM
He did it with LSD.
bridgetown on September 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM
I find it interesting that the Manson murders took place at roughly the same time as Woodstock.
The 60s, man! Two sides of the same coin.
Decent people were a bit frightened by hippies, free love, and all that crap. Manson symbolized and/or crystallized those fears. That’s one reason for his lasting “appeal”.
Plus, the Beatles connection (although that was in no way the Beatles’ fault).
I was 12 when the Helter Skelter miniseries was on TV. It was the talk of my 6th-grade class. But I wasn’t allowed to watch it. Saw the preview, though, before my mom changed the channel, and that was enough to scare the hell out of me.
tsj017 on September 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Geez, do we need to see this incontinent vegetable Larry King quiz yet another person on sexual exploits? He was drooling more than usual, and seemed to be panting!
portlandbob on September 5, 2009 at 11:12 AM
What a wonderful story — an example of God’s grace. I hope he continues to positively influence the lives of inmates.
Richard Romano on September 5, 2009 at 11:13 AM
No, he’s evil. And a scammer.
Blake on September 5, 2009 at 11:13 AM
Damn! All someone has to do is mention jesus and you people fall for whatever they are selling. Enough!
Blake on September 5, 2009 at 11:15 AM
The Manson “family” is closely tied with the roots of hippie-dom. The existence of this aberrant highlights that the hippies, who in their time behaved as a cult, were generally disaffected and searching for meaning, thus susceptible to persuasion by this or that cult leader.
Manson closed the “peace and love” era, when the neighbors figured out that hippies were killing people.
exdeadhead on September 5, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Helter Skelter and The Stranger Beside Me, Ann Rule’s book about Ted Bundy, scared me silly. I became hooked on the true crime genre. Now, I rarely read any true crime because I find it so disturbing and depressing that people like this exist in our society. I don’t want to climb inside their heads.
alwaysright43 on September 5, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Yeah she should be ashamed. Also agree, even more so, with your point on Tex.
dedalus on September 5, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Today, Manson and crew would have been identified as Progressives.
JeffB. on September 5, 2009 at 11:50 AM
My great aunt was a hippie. They called them Jesus Freaks back then since they were trying emulate Jesus Christ. Duh, the long hair, clothing, giving up material possessions and communal living. She later became a pastor of a small church and was one of my favorite people in the world. (she died of cancer.)
fastestslug on September 5, 2009 at 11:58 AM
The Manson murders occurred the summer I turned 13. I was born and always lived in southern California where our news coverage of the Manson family equaled the Martin Luther King, Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy assassinations the year before. That contributed to its profound effect on my young psyche.
I think the sustained fascination is a baby boom era phenomenon attached to the cultural chaos of the time for the same reason that the Jim Jones murder/suicides continue to fascinate. As anyone who has parented through the terrible twos knows, human nature needs clearly defined boundaries and will abandon all rational action in search of them. The Manson murders and, a few months later, Altamont were the inevitable response to the free love/anything goes anarchy that created a tumultuous void in which lost souls were drawn to anyone willing to exert total control.
Certainly the celebrity factor played a large role, too, and Sharon Tate’s mother Doris kept the story alive by devoting the rest of her life to reforming criminal law to allow for victim impact statements. Manson had managed to ingratiate himself with music industry figures including Dennis Wilson, with whom the “family” lived before the murders and who collaborated on the writing and performance of music that was actually recorded for a Beach Boys album, and Terry Melcher, Doris Day’s influential producer son who was the intended victim of the murders.
Terrie on September 5, 2009 at 12:02 PM
I turned 7 years old in the May entering into “The Summer of Love”.
My grandmother died in June. So did Judy Garland. My grandmother’s passing was my entre into death as a reality and not just what had happened to people on the television (2 Kennedys, MLK, Watts and all the other riots, looters burning up cities, protests and reporters being carried around at the 1968 Dem Convention in Chicago, Gus Grissom and fellow astronauts burning up, and all those young boys in Viet Nam). There was a lot of death in the 60s and we all grew up with it and we all got used to it.
My Father cried when his Mother died. When The Baltimore Sun proclaimed Garland dead, my Dad said she was not anyone to admire. It didn’t stop me.
Summer moved on. We went to Ocean City and watched with all my parents’ friends and their kids that were my friends as man walked on the Moon.
BTW, the same weekend Ted Kennedy drove his car off a bridge into a 6 foot deep pond and left a woman to die. My parents, who had strongly supported Nixon in 1960, went back and forth between outrage at Kennedy for his cowardly actions and glee that this was surely the end of the Kennedy saga. It was an interesting vacation.
For a very few days, I thought maybe I’d found the meaning of evil and its name was Kennedy. I wasn’t quite sure about that though. It was certainly what my parents thought but then my great-aunt Dorothy lived with us. She worshipped all things Kennedy. She had taken me to stand by the tracks during my 6th summer on earth so that we could see Bobby’s funeral train go by. I still remember Ethel standing on the back platform as it passed.
In any event, I had my first personal experience with “true evil” when the papers and Walter Cronkite and David Brinkley started reporting about the Tate and LoBianca murders.
It wasn’t an intimate personal experience but it was close enough. My Mom grew up in California. All my aunts and uncles on her side still lived there. Heck, just the summer before I had flown into LAX (my 4th trip to visit — well 5th if you count the one “in utero”).
My 7-year old brain worried. Were these crazy people going to kill my Aunt Gladys in Tustin? Were my Aunt Edythe and Grandma Corie safe in Hemet? I knew my other Aunts and Uncles lived far away from Los Angeles. Well, I was a little worried about my Uncle Jim and Aunt Evelynn. They lived in Berkeley and I remembered looking out their apartment window during my last visit and watching naked “hippies” sleeping on the roof across the street. After that they kept their blinds closed.
I fretted for days and finally spilled out my fears to my Mom. She assured me that Tustin and Hemet were far enough away and that they didn’t live in mansions. That made sense, I guess. But were you ever safe from people who would kill a pregnant lady? Somehow it was all tied up with that book my Mom had hidden in her bedside bookshelf. The one about Hollywood people taking drugs – Valley of the Dolls.
The weekend after that, a bunch of kids got together in a muddy field. They were bad people who took drugs too. The people they listened to playing music were more bad drug people. Soon some of them would die from drugs.
It all blended together for me. The evil incarnate in Manson’s eyes. Those “family” members crawling on the sidewalk, shaving their heads, swastikas on their foreheads. Blood and gore and Abby Hoffmann and the Black Panthers moved on into the next years — into Kent State and Patty Hearst & the SLA and then two of those Manson family members trying to kill Presidents. A President smoking pot with Willie Nelson in the Rose Garden while hostages in Iran couldn’t be rescued.
It all seemed to stop with Reagan — all the craziness. He was the hope of a nation and for a while we resurrected America Lost. Now we’ve lost it again and I hope to God that the sequel, America Regained, will be coming to a bookstore near me soon.
Greyledge Gal on September 5, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Bugliosi’s latest book is anti-Bush. I haven’t read it and don’t intend to, but if he’s a progressive lefty liberal, it does tend to make me re-think what he had to say about Manson back then.
NahnCee on September 5, 2009 at 12:31 PM
God bless the Tates. After the mother died, another daughter continued the fight. When she died, the last daughter picked up the mantle. They have done a lot for crime victims in California.
I use to avoid any documentaries or shows or the internet that showed photos of crime scenes. I thought it was disrespectful to see victim’s in their worse moments. However, something I read by Doris Tate changed my opinion. She wanted people to view the photos of the crime scenes. She said if they didn’t, they would forget how evil these criminals were. She was right. It is too easy to forget.
Blake on September 5, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Oh, he’s way pass progressive lefty liberal: He’s bat shite crazy. I heard him interviewed on Bush numerous times and he is definitely nuts. Still, I read his book on Oswald and it was pretty good.
Blake on September 5, 2009 at 12:45 PM
pass = past
Blake on September 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM
My God–I just had a massive amount of flashbacks! *Staggers from the computer to find that bottle of whiskey…*
lovingmyUSA on September 5, 2009 at 1:12 PM
The same thing could be said about today’s media. They have refused to show the carnage of 9/11 over the past few years, because they want people to forget those crimes, too.
Del Dolemonte on September 5, 2009 at 1:23 PM
The Kopechne Murder: 40 Years Later
It’s all in who you know, folks.
Jim Treacher on September 5, 2009 at 1:25 PM
This was truly a unique case in many aspects.
I suggest reading “The Family” by Ed Sanders to get really good background on the Family and Manson’s short,but very powerful influence on young people rejecting everything they could in society ruled by “the man”.
It took a dangerous perfect storm for Manson (who begged not to be let out of prison in 67) to step into such a radical change going on socially that everybody in the “hippie” movement was either pushing their own religion or following somebody else’s.
The anti-social atmosphere was perfect for a charismatic felon who was raised hustling in prison to stay alive.
The use of drugs,sex,and total seclusion from society to break these young adults down was taught to Charlie by Scientologist,the Process,and many different cults that Charlie would pull from to use in dazzling these young minds deluged in a stupor most of the time.
Not revealed very much is the influence Mel Lyman (folk singer and communal cultist) had on Charlie.You can read a lot of his chopped back and forth philosophy here:
http://aes-nihil.com/index2.html
Manson patterned his “raps” in this style and added scientologist methods such as “getting clear” and “getting your fear” along with his apocalyptic influences coming from sources such as The Process Church and OTO.
Charlie and the family took on many different persona’s over a short period of time.
Remember, Charlie actually lived with Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys and Charlie’s song “cease to exist” was recorded by them (under a different name).He was rubbing shoulders with some of the biggest music producers in hollywood (though Melcher was not impressed by him but came to fear him).
Candice Bergen (who lived with Melcher in the now infamous Tate house 6 months before the murders) actually stood face to face with the lead killer Tex Watson and had him kicked out of the house because of his dirty creepy appearance(he came looking for Melcher and money).
The trial was a list of people from movie and recording stars all the way to motorcycle gangs,suburbanites,and cultist.
Charlie got to know a lot of people in a lot of circles very quickly.
Quite an influential personality.
Unfortunately their has been very little credible and in depth documentary concerning how Charlie was able to influence so many people to do so much with little to no feeling about it.
If you remember, in Susan Atkins testimony concerning the second act of murder (Labianca’s), she actually fell asleep many times while they were riding around looking for victims that night.This is after the slaughter the night before at the Tate residence.
It takes some serious detachment from society to fall asleep when you are preparing to kill people like this.
This case is so vast and has so many elements(creation of the family,the murders,the trial,and aftermath) that you could post for days just discussing the beginnings of the Family.
This site also has some great book reviews and breakdown of Charlie,the creation of the family,and the crimes:
http://charliemanson.com/
These people should never see the light of day again.
Unfortunately, Steve Grogan (helped murder Shorty Shea) is now a free man.
If you are going to read up on this case, start with coherent people that were there.
Paul Watkins book: My life with Charles Manson
Tex Watson’s book: Will you die for me
(Susan Atkins book reveals little insight probably due to the fact her main interest was getting paroled)
Catherine “Gypsy” Share is coming out with a new book that I think will be very informative since she was in the inner circle and not just a hanger on.I have seen her speak and she provides invaluable insight into how they evolved and what lead them to such cold blooded murder.
the Helter SKelter motive is just part of it.
Some other well written books on this subject:
The Garbage people (reprinted as Manson): John Gilmore
Gilmore does a good job coming from the perspective of somebody who was involved in the 60’s scene.
The Manson File: Nikolas Schreck
Certainly a different point of view that boarders on the sympathetic but is revealing.
Sharon Tate and the Manson Murders: Greg King
Was surprising happy with the factual and through nature of this book.
The Shadow over Santa Susana Pass: Adam Gorightly
Addresses many of the myths surrounding the case.Good book but needs more confirmation on some theories.
One of the only DVD’s worth watching that Charlie does not get away with his “crazy games” and you actually get some theory and motive out of him is:
Charles Manson Superstar
Many interviews such as Geraldo’s,Snyders,and others are pretty much crap since they don’t seem very informed on how to deal with Charlie and allow him to play his games.
Interesting post topic Captain.
Baxter Greene on September 5, 2009 at 1:45 PM
I know others have mentioned this, but I will too: Bugliosi descended into full-on BDS, the most virulent strain. He thinks Bush should be tried for murder, and he’s pretty serious about it, from the excerpt of his book I read.
juliesa on September 5, 2009 at 1:46 PM
I never saw anything because my computer was in a different room and I was busy fighting with aholes on the internet for days on end. Imagine my surprise when the MSM decided to censor images. It hasn’t been the past few years but almost immediately and it was stated as a policy on the first anniversary.
Blake on September 5, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I agree.
By the way, you probably put about 3 inches of muscle on your arm holding his Kennedy assassination book up to read it.(if that is the Oswald book you are talking about)
Massive.
His OJ book was also excellent.
His Bush book was extremely disappointing but I do believe he was trying to run for office in California at the time.
Maybe he was vying for votes.
Regardless his crime investigation skills and putting them to paper are some of the most through and comprehensive out there.
I love his adherence to theory and motive and not just a sensationalism of the crimes.
Baxter Greene on September 5, 2009 at 1:53 PM
++
lovingmyUSA on September 5, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Vincent Bugliosi is a wack job. After hearing him conduct interviews when his book The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder came out, it became obvious how crazy this guy is.
If you’re a Dennis Miller Zone member you can hear an especially loopy interview in the DMZ archives for June 11th. Wanted to link to it, but it’s for subscribers only and couldn’t find it on YouTube. Worth checking out though.
FireDrake on September 5, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Jeff,
How about: “Serial Killers AND Brats!”
TugboatPhil on September 5, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Kasabian is certainly better spoken and more in control of her story than in the past,but this idea that she is “free” of any responsibility regarding the murders is wrong.
The DA’s office was ready to offer immunity for eyewitness testimony.Bugliosi knew that he would have a hard time trying Manson without him being there and without convincing the jury of a far fetched motive involving starting a race war with Helter Skelter.
I believe they were prepared to offer immunity even to Susan Atkins in exchange for her testimony.She recanted her confession and the DA’s office withdrew.
As most everyone knows, if you are a party to the crime,you can be found guilty of it even if you did not actually pull the trigger.
Without her deal to testify, Kasabian would have been found guilty of murder.Her deal does not exempt the underlying fact that she was a party to murder not once,but twice.
Bugliosi continuously stating she did not murder anyone certainly is an attempt to distance herself from these crimes in the eyes of people who are harassing her or would do so in the future.
Something else that I noticed she failed to mention.
Kasabian/Bugliosi make a point to say she stayed outside during the Tate murders.
This was not by choice.Tex Watson told her to stay outside and keep a watch. She has already shown that she would do what was told of her so it is only common sense to conclude that if Tex had told her to come inside,she would have been in the house and used her knife like the others.
Yes she did deny Charlie the next night,but that is a lot different than being on the scene at Tate while everybody is butchering and demanding she do her share also.
This is the exact scenario that Leslie Van Houten was in.
She was pretty much haded a knife and told to do her share even though Rosmary Labianca was probably already dead.
Kasabian also by her own admission was with the family only a little over a month before this took place.
She certainly was not under Manson’s influence to the degree that the others were.So she was more aware of how wrong these actions were than the average brainwashed family member.
The fact that she ran off only helps her. She did not run off then report these murders to the police.She ran off and tried to get away with it until the case was busted open by Atkins jail house confessions.
Her testimony was very instrumental in getting Charlie in jail.But she still was an accomplice of two nights of murder and remains free due to a deal, not due to lack of complicity in these murders.
Ronnie Howard (woman that Atkins confessed to in jail) was probably the leader in breaking this case.
Ironically, Tex Watson was the most instrumental in stopping the murder spree by telling Charlie that the authorities had been to his home in Texas looking for him concerning the murders.
Charlie freaked out and took everybody deeper into the desert.
Tex went back home to later be extradited and charged separately.
Baxter Greene on September 5, 2009 at 3:07 PM
The end notes (not the foot notes in the book)on the included CD were about 1,000 pdf pages.
Blake on September 5, 2009 at 3:17 PM
I remember when these murders were committed very vividly. It was on the black and white TV every day and every night for weeks. The 60’s was a crazy time.
I also remember my Father, who was a member of S.E.B. (SWAT) on the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department at the time, trekking all over the desert around Barker Ranch in Death Valley, California with his squad trying to find members of the Manson ‘family’ that had possibly scattered after L.A.P.D. had raided the ranch and arrested Manson and some of his followers for… auto-theft. They hadn’t formulated the Manson Family-LaBianca/Tate murder connection before the time of the raid. After they did, L.A. Sheriff’s searched Death Valley for more Manson family members high and low.
Of course, the Manson Family murder trial was a circus freak show too which led to many more months of daily and nightly coverage on the ol’ black and white TV of Manson and his freaky-deaky family.
Then there were also the Medgar Evers-JFK-Malcolm X-RFK-MLK assassinations, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the civil rights movement, segregations, integrations, riots, the cold war, nuclear proliferation to boggle the mind, Vietnam, the ‘Acid Tests’, Hippies, mass quantities of Drugs, more riots, Chairman Mao in China and his revolutionary ‘purge’, the Arab-Israel Six-Day War … ugh.
The 60’s were a crazy crazy decade.
SilverStar830 on September 5, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Has Obama thrown Manson under the bus yet?
Coronagold on September 5, 2009 at 3:53 PM
With all due respect to Manson junkies without the Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski angle he would have been long forgotten. Who you kill is more important than how, most of the time.
They were, at the time, the hottest couple in Hollywood. It would be akin to Brad and Angelina getting brutally murdered by a free “Mumia” crew or a renegade Hari Krishna group. It would not be forgotten.
patrick neid on September 5, 2009 at 6:52 PM
I recently read a book, The Ultimate Evil by Maury Terry.
If you want a page turner like Helter Skelter or The Family, this book is it.
About Son of Sam, it dovetails with Manson near the end, melding east coast and west coast cults ultimately involved with The Process.
Lanceman on September 5, 2009 at 7:31 PM
The 60’s were a crazy crazy decade.
SilverStar830 on September 5, 2009 at 3:30 PM
I’m soooo glad I missed them…
Shannow on September 5, 2009 at 7:59 PM
Abigail Folger was a friend of my parents, my mother thinks about her all the time.
AprilOrit on September 5, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Hm. I don’t think there is a “disconnect” here. I think there is a very real connection between the “free love sensibility” and the “butchery”. It reminds me of this man’s words:
atheling on September 5, 2009 at 10:33 PM
I read Helter Skelter as a teenager on a car trip with my family a few years after the murders and I was suddenly very glad to have my mom and dad near by all day. It was chilling. I remember Manson’s eyes during a TV program later lifting the hairs on my arms even though I was seeing him on film and not in person. The existence of such evil makes belief in God seem almost a necessity as a safety mechanism to keep your sanity.
inmypajamas on September 5, 2009 at 11:01 PM
We lived in California at the time of the Manson murders, maybe an hour away, but fortunately I was too young to be aware of it. My mom was petrified, though, since she traveled to Beverley Hills frequently to see a doctor there.
Later, when I was older, I found a copy of Helter Skelter and read it when I was staying with family friends, while my parents were out of town. I can’t say it inspired my fascination with the morbid, since obviously I was already fascinated when I guiltily devoured the book without my parents’ permission. Talk about eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and of evil. My eyes were open, but my soul was troubled.
MissDarcy on September 6, 2009 at 9:04 AM
Well the best place he can do that is serving his sentence behind bars for the rest of his life I guess. I personally don’t see the justice of him getting any joy out of it while his victim spends his time in a cold grave.
Dollayo on September 6, 2009 at 9:08 AM
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