It’s come to this: Dems task Teddy’s grandson with leading funeral prayer for ObamaCare

posted at 2:09 pm on August 29, 2009 by Allahpundit

The boss has been writing about the left’s use of kids as sympathetic “human shields” for their policies for years and years, but even so, I’m amazed. I thought the moral authority of the religious setting would create enough cover for Obama or whoever to toss a few bones to health care in their eulogies; I guess, like Karl says, they were skittish after the Wellstone memorial fiasco and figured they couldn’t take any chances. Enter this poor little boy, charged with politicizing a prayer because the gutless pols around him didn’t have the balls to do it themselves.

Incidentally, after linking this on Twitter, I’ve been informed by liberal amateur theologians that it’s perfectly kosher to pray for universal health care — on TV, in the middle of a national debate, at a funeral service ostensibly devoted to grieving over someone, by exploiting an innocent child — because, um, Jesus would have supported it. I’m happy to discover that the left’s decades of righteous outrage at Christian conservatives for mixing religion with politics was, as so much else is, simple partisan posturing, but I’m unfamiliar with the sermon where Jesus called for Caesar to create a public fund to heal the sick. Can any Bible aficionados help? Exit question: Anyone have any young’uns at home they’d be willing to volunteer to lead prayers at the next big GOP funeral? We might as well make use of the camera time while we have it. “Dear god, please grant us the strength to privatize social security and construct a robust missile defense shield. We pray to the Lord.” Click the image to watch.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 3 4 5 6 7

You forgot casuistic. Don’t forget to get in all the traditional anti-Judaism slurs.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 6:59 PM

Actually, I have the random slur generator in the “on” position. That could have very well been a slur on Seventh Day Adventists. But, they don’t come here, hijack threads, and crap their sanctimonious bullsh*t all over the place.

You’re not a troll. You’re a tumor.

nico on August 29, 2009 at 7:02 PM

I do remember that picture of little Jon Jon saluting at his daddy’s funeral procession, standing there in front of Jackie. That was innocent and spontaneous. They are still trying to relive the Camelot moments. Moments now corrupted by the progressive Kennedys in today’s shameless spectacle.

jbinnout on August 29, 2009 at 7:09 PM

Noooooo Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Little Kennedy’s Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

sonnyspats1 on August 29, 2009 at 7:14 PM

Good lord . . . are they going to soon end this disgusting display of contrived aggrandizement before I throw up in my mouth. Liberals feed on their own narcissism and hedonistic desires.

rplat on August 29, 2009 at 7:17 PM

rplat on August 29, 2009 at 7:17 PM

Camelot jumped the shark the night MJK died. I hope that we can put the Kennedys influencing American politics to rest.

tessa on August 29, 2009 at 7:19 PM

The moronic talking heads always deem to believe that they know what people are thinking. Idiots.

tessa on August 29, 2009 at 7:20 PM

DNC Play Book all the way. Just follow the script.

Geochelone on August 29, 2009 at 7:21 PM

Is this silliness ever going to end? I am now watching every station cover a motorcade as a vast crowd of onlookers one person deep watch it pass.

If any other Senator, any one at all, died, none of this stupidity would be happening…

If his name was not Kennedy he would be quietly buried with dignity…heck, if his last name was anything other than Kennedy he would have been jailed 40 years ago…

JIMV on August 29, 2009 at 7:22 PM

In four decades:

Camelot

to

Camel dung.

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on August 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM

Christians like myself believe that we live in God’s Kingdom on Earth. The forgiveness of sins is a pretty powerful thing.

Suddenly God decided to start forgiving sins some 1300 years after revealing himself to Abraham? More than a millennium after commanding things like “sin offerings” to “atone”? More than 800 years after Solomon said that our prayers can effect atonement?

And for the record. . . Jesus is NOT DEAD. Where is his tomb?

So I suppose that my grandfather’s entire extended family isn’t dead? They have no tomb. Just mixed in with other ashes at Auschwitz.

Getting at least partly back on topic, Joe Kennedy Jr’s body was never found. Is he the Messiah too?

God didn’t want to condemn the world without giving them the opportunity to be redeemed.

Why would a beneficent Creator want to condemn His creation? Sounds kind of cruel to me.

I agree that in the end, everyone will know. But as servants of God, it is our job to ensure that when that time comes, people know what they are looking at instead of God just condemning everyone for being people.

So first people have to learn about some guy who died in Judea 2000 years ago before God will give Himself an excuse to torment humans for being, well, human, just like He created them?

The statement that Jesus isn’t Messiah because SOME Jews say He isn’t is ridiculous.

It isn’t just “some Jews”. It’s the vast majority of not just regular Jews but also of great Torah scholars. If a big league manager says that a guy can hit, I’ll take the expert at his word. Likewise, if a Torah scholar says that a guy isn’t the Messiah, I’ll trust his superior expertise in those matters.

How about everyone saying that the Jews aren’t the chosen people because they don’t even control what Solomon built on the Temple Mount. If they were so chosen, why can’t they even enter what God gave them?

Who says that being chosen has anything to do with temporal power in this day and age? The Torah and the prophets are pretty clear that Jews will have a rough go of it, chosen or not. As a matter of fact, God specifically says that Jews will suffer because of being chosen, that, unlike other nations, He will visit all of our sins upon us, as testimony of His existence.

Just for the sake of argument, though, the only reason why the Muslim Wakf has any dominion on the Temple Mount is because the Israeli government lets them. Jews have learned to be sensitive about Christian and Muslim concerns, since some members of those faith communities like to find Jewish perfidy wherever they look.

I, for one, disagree with this policy of the Israeli gov’t and have much admiration for those Jews (and Christians) who try to worship on Har HaBayit despite Muslim restrictions.

I could continue. . . but eventually it will get to the point where you accuse me of being anti-Semitic and stifle debate.

Ah, the anticipatory denial of anti-Semitism. The only folks trying to stifle debate are the ones who are saying I’m hijacking this thread.

I literally don’t give a damn if I offend Christians. Christians routinely say stuff that is pretty offensive to Jews if they wanted to get upset. Your entire faith is based on the notion that my rabbi is a deceiver. That’s pretty offensive.

That was a cute point you made about ‘damn those Jews who are so arrogant’. I was speaking to YOUR PERSONAL ARROGANCE when you said, well if I don’t say Jesus is Messiah, He isn’t.

I never said that. What I said is that Jews, collectively, have better credentials, if you will, for determining who is or who isn’t the Messiah. Since I was speaking about Jews as a group and since you said that was arrogant, it stands to reason that you think that Jews are arrogant to think that they know Judaism better than you do.

You’re the one in the bind. You’ve accepted a Jewish concept but you want to believe that while the Jews accurately transmitted the basic notion of a Messiah, they somehow messed up on the practical application of that notion, because they’ve come to a different conclusion than the one you’ve been taught.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM

I wonder how many people are really watching this stuff?

Terrye on August 29, 2009 at 7:27 PM

Byrd looks like he is not that far behind.

tessa on August 29, 2009 at 7:27 PM

rokemronnie:

What is the point of this silly religious debate? Why not just leave people alone and let them believe what they want to believe? They don’t owe you an explanation.

Terrye on August 29, 2009 at 7:28 PM

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM

Blah blah blah blah blah

While each one of these despicable monsters steals money from the public to maintain their lavish lifestyles, they preach that Americans are greedy for not wanting to have even more of their money confiscated to help these child-exploiters create an even larger class of welfare-dependent voters to grow their power base.

TMK on August 29, 2009 at 7:30 PM

You’re not a troll. You’re a tumor.

nico on August 29, 2009 at 7:02 PM

So nice of you to appreciate my financial support of this site when it first started.

I’m perfectly willing to abide by the decisions of this site’s mgmt. If Allahpundit, Ed or Michelle (almost typed Bryan, remember Bryan?) want to ban me, it’s their prerogative to do so.

You guys are more orthodox than any rabbis that I know.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:31 PM

Terrye on August 29, 2009 at 7:28 PM

Its called hijacking a thread to either feed your own ego or because too much truth is being told.

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 7:31 PM

Its called hijacking a thread to either feed your own ego or because too much truth is being told.

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 7:31 PM

Project much?

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:37 PM

Rokemronnie – I am very much enjoying your input. I’m trying to catch up to current on the posts.

TWG78 on August 29, 2009 at 7:43 PM

How long before this kid gets his first DUI? A badge of honor with the Kennedys.

Frances on August 29, 2009 at 7:43 PM

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:37 PM

Not at all. I’m not the one who just wrote a novel worth of material while intentionally straying away from the subject of a threadand in the meantime bashing every Christian drawing a breath.
So you hate Police and Christians, anyone else?

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 7:45 PM

I wonder how many people are really watching this stuff?

Terrye on August 29, 2009 at 7:27 PM

Today at the Cigar Shop the guys were lamenting that it’s difficult to tune in anywhere to just get the regualr ‘news’…so tonight it’s either football or the History Channel for me.

Red State State of Mind on August 29, 2009 at 7:45 PM

Darn it. My two year old just crash banged some picture frames to the ground. I have to go clean up broken glass everywhere. BRB

TWG78 on August 29, 2009 at 7:46 PM

“Dear god, please grant us the strength to privatize social security and construct a robust missile defense shield. We pray to the Lord.”

LMAO!! Hahahahaha, love it.

nickj116 on August 29, 2009 at 7:47 PM

Sometimes we forget…..To Liberals….Politics IS their religion.

So naturally they would use to their advantage. Wouldn’t Marx? Didn’t Wellstones’ family? Didn’t Coretta Scott Kings’ funeral turn into a circus?

Par for the course for the Libs/Progressives.

Whatever it takes for more government control. A good lesson to learn with both parties that want the Federal Gov’t and THEIR POWER.

It’s the Vassels and the Serfs all over again.
Kennedy….Vassel
Obama……Vassel
Bush…….Vassel
McCain…..Vassel

Us?……..Serfs.

PappyD61 on August 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM

Project much?

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:37 PM

Speaking of projections, did you know that O’Kennedy Prayercare means:

Overall, total federal expenditures will be 5.6 percent higher than otherwise by 2019, adding $285.6 billion to the federal deficit in 2019.

An increase in national health care expenditures by an additional 8.9 percent by 2019.

An increase in medical price inflation by 5.2 percent above what it would have been otherwise by 2019.

Reduce U.S. economic growth in 2019 compared to the baseline scenario by 4.9 percent for the nation as a whole and 4.3 percent in Colorado.

Higher medical inflation and overall expenditures will ultimately lead to government expenditures that exceed the $1.0 trillion in expenditures on health subsidies. The net present value of all additional federal government expenditures through 2019 that will occur as a result of a federal health care reform is $1.2 trillion, or a $3,900 bill for every man, woman, and child in the U.S.

Despite the additional $1 trillion in expected health care subsidies by the government, 30 million people would remain uninsured. The cost to reduce the number of uninsured by 16 million people is $62,500 in subsidy expenditures per person insured.

TMK on August 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM

TMK on August 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM

Thank you.

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 7:55 PM

Thank you.

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 7:55 PM

I eat troll meat for breakfast.

Nom nom nom nom

TMK on August 29, 2009 at 7:57 PM

We knew the pols were gutless when they refused to show up for town hall meetings, but using a little boy who I’m sure is grieving for his grandfather is pathetic.

Kissmygrits on August 29, 2009 at 8:00 PM

You’re the one in the bind. You’ve accepted a Jewish concept but you want to believe that while the Jews accurately transmitted the basic notion of a Messiah, they somehow messed up on the practical application of that notion, because they’ve come to a different conclusion than the one you’ve been taught.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM

And you are the one that is arrogant for making such statements (not ‘the Jews’)

You assume that I believe what I believe because ‘I have been taught’. You can’t fathom that my beliefs come from study and reflection on God’s word.

But it doesn’t matter. You know everything (according to you).

I’ve also been told that many Jews like Christians because of the evangelical nature of our faith. In other words, when we preach about Jesus, we have to preach about Judaism. Jews don’t proselytize. You’re welcome.

Jesus came so that ALL THE WORLD may know God. You believe that God is the domain of the Jews and the rest of the world is damned for simply not being Jews.

And as for ‘different conclusion’. . . I’m OK with that. I recognize that I could be wrong. You on the other hand, have no problem saying that there is no way possible that you could be wrong.

We’ve had plenty of examples in the Old Testament of the Jews being wrong. Somehow since Christianity came into existence, we are supposed to believe that the Jews refrained from ever being wrong (especially about the role of Jesus Christ).

I’ll point out that YOU don’t KNOW. You might have read the texts. I’ve been taught the texts from the original translations by professors that knew what it said but didn’t believe it. That’s fine, that’s their prerogative.

But you get to hide behind the ‘woe is me a persecuted Jew in a world full of anti-Semites’ to declare yourself intellectually superior and arbiter of everything holy. Here’s a news flash . . . YOU COULD BE WRONG.

ThackerAgency on August 29, 2009 at 8:03 PM

Now they’re politicking (in the Swimmer’s own words) for Single Payer FROM THE GRAVESITE! NAKED EFFING POLITICS DRESSED UP AS GRIEF! IS THERE EVEN ONE KENNEDY WITHOUT SHAME TO CRY OUT “ENOUGH”!

Chirp Chirp…Amen

Western_Civ on August 29, 2009 at 8:14 PM

My health care is not Caesar’s.

spmat on August 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM

You have to admit that the great thing about the Kennedy’s is that they are political animals. Even in death they come back to haunt us with their liberal ways. However, it will be fun to see where Teddy’s will is probated. When Rose died the will was probated in Florida, a state she had not been in for about 12 years. Because the tax was not as bad as Mass. I guess with these people it’s everyone else who has to pay tax, not them.

Wills on August 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM

Wow that’s pretty low to use his grandson.

gophergirl on August 29, 2009 at 8:18 PM

This qualifies for “child abuse”… Par for the “lefty” course!

Khun Joe on August 29, 2009 at 8:19 PM

JIMV hit the nail on the head.

royzer on August 29, 2009 at 8:24 PM

Five hours later they just used his four grandchildren to push health care reform again. What a riot!

ndulik on August 29, 2009 at 8:24 PM

Hell, there’s almost no mention of the Messiah, period, in the Hebrew bible.

Well that almost counts as a win for you! You almost sure showed us! PS Hell is a Christian deal.

You can’t convince me by citing a text I don’t accept as authoritative. Essentially you are arguing that I should accept a Christian concept because a Christian book says so.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 6:57 PM

So you came in here, uninvited, to start an argument you wouldn’t finish.

Do you do wedding receptions?

Chris_Balsz on August 29, 2009 at 8:25 PM

Liberals always overreach. They think we are too dumb to get the point if they use subtlety. Fortunately they always give enough rope to easily hang themselves with.

stldave on August 29, 2009 at 8:27 PM

Just got back from my first moveon.org pro-Obamacare Communist rally. Scary stuff there.

Lyodd Doggett is a coward. After he was humiliated by dissent at his first town hall, he has hidden from his constituents behind moveon.org.

All of the moveon.org volunteers wore green above-the-elbow arm bands. You had to give out your name and other info to get in. On the entrance form, you had to check 1 of 2 Orwellian options:

[_]Yes, I support healthcare reform, or
[_]Yes, I support healthcare reform and would like to volunteer in the following ways….

Lloyd Doggett received several standing ovations. Placards that lined the stage read: “83% [heart] the public option” “public option = affordable healthcare” and “public option saves $$$”

Each speaker made sure to mention a specific health insurance company by name – Aetna, United Health, etc. Each time a health insurance company was named, the crowd “hisssssssssed” on cue as if they were reading from a script.

The cult of Obama personality worship was on full display. Most of the crowd wore Obama T-shirts. One middle aged woman had the Obama “O” logo tattooed on her ankle. Another woman had an “Obama” tiara.

From what I could tell there were three main themes:

1. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” are meaningless without universal healthcare run by the government.

2. Bashing Sarah Palin and ridiculing Obamacare protestors

3. If you don’t support Obama’s healthcare, plan you are not a Christian. (I predict this meme will be especially popular this fall.)

After Doggett’s speech the green armbands marched in lines holding aloft identical placards the read “Thank You Obama.” The crowd rose to its feet and chanted “YES WE CAN” for a solid 60 seconds before dissolving into rapturous cheers.

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:35 PM

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:35 PM

What state is this?

tessa on August 29, 2009 at 8:38 PM

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:35 PM

Bless your heart for entering the lion’s den, now go scrub yourself with some anti-septic. -_*

thomasaur on August 29, 2009 at 8:40 PM

That was a punch to the stomach to me. As a Catholic that had all the mass ppwk to follow along and learn the English mass, when that part came along I just could not believe it.

I could not believe Obama could stay inside the church that long, either and say “God”. That is sooo not him!

I believe IMHO that when it comes to prayers for God, Jesus and our Blessed Mother, you can pray for the poor, for the ill, for peace but not HEALTHCARE. Can go around it as in pray that the ill can be healed.

I don’t believe that Christ above would’ve been pleased with that display of political propaganda inside His Temple. That’s why He did what He did! Basilica’s dirty, needs some scrubing and incense to clear Obama’s agenda.

ProudPalinFan on August 29, 2009 at 8:41 PM

Allahpundit,

I agree with the little kid. Everyone should have the same Health Care that Ted Kennedy had. So that everyone who gets terminal brain cancer or any terminal illness can use their Health Care at great expense to prolong their lives a few more months to wrap up their affairs and spend quality time with family.

BDU-33 on August 29, 2009 at 8:41 PM

This would help to explain Ted Kennedy:

As Waistlines Widen, Brains Shrink

MB4 on August 29, 2009 at 8:42 PM

I came back from a townhall with my rep today and felt similarly deflated.

Jay Inslee kept saying the public option would be paid for with the premiums from those who choose to participate. So since he also voted against the September bailout, I fully expect that he would vote against propping up the public option with money from the general fund or some other clever accounting slight of hand WHEN it begins to fail and run deficits. \wishful thinking

TWG78 on August 29, 2009 at 8:42 PM

Epitaph on the Politician Himself

Here richly, with ridiculous display,

The Politician’s corpse was laid away.

While all of his acquaintance sneered and slanged,

I wept;
for I had longed to see him hanged.

Belloc

Beto Ochoa on August 29, 2009 at 8:45 PM

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:35 PM

What state is this?

tessa on August 29, 2009 at 8:38 PM

Texas (Austin)

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:49 PM

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:49 PM

Bless you, m’lady. You showed great intestinal fortitude and conviction of spirit.

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 8:51 PM

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:35 PM
Bless your heart for entering the lion’s den, now go scrub yourself with some anti-septic. -_*

thomasaur on August 29, 2009 at 8:40 PM

Thank you… I took several doses of medicinal Tequila upon returning home to fight off any potential brain infections.

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:51 PM

I agree with the little kid. Everyone should have the same Health Care that Ted Kennedy had

Fine, now enlighten us as to how you’re going to PAY FOR IT!
What part of the word “UNSUSTAINABLE” do you not comprehend?

GarandFan on August 29, 2009 at 9:00 PM

The most unintentionally hilarious part:

The MC was a ‘community organizer’ from moveon.org and had a shiney bald head and pointy goatee. He looked like he was dressed as Lenin for Halloween!

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 9:01 PM

This was an Irish Catholic service; 75% of the congregation were probably toasted.

anniekc on August 29, 2009 at 3:56 PM

And 100% of them work for the government and don’t have an honest job.

Jeff from WI on August 29, 2009 at 4:00 PM

what is with knocking Irish Catholics? we are not all Kennedys, we are not all drunks, we are not all government employees and I resent your trashing of us as a whole.

Willie on August 29, 2009 at 9:11 PM

Now they’re politicking (in the Swimmer’s own words) for Single Payer FROM THE GRAVESITE!

So I wasn’t losing my mind. I nearly fell out of my chair when the priest read that. How much you wanna bet that was crafted right before his death. Un-effing-believable. Time to really step up the protests.

TxAnn56 on August 29, 2009 at 9:16 PM

That’s pretty cheesy.

Dave Rywall on August 29, 2009 at 9:17 PM

Using children for political propaganda seems to be a bit of a habit for the Obama administration. Remember the little kids singing the song about Obama during the election, or that girl who got up during Obama’s health care town hall and asked why all the protesters were saying mean things about health care reform and she turned out to be the daughter of a democrat activist with ties to the Obama campaign.

Then again I suppose to progressive democrats children are just props that they can wheel out to impress people when it is political suitable to do so.

Hellrider on August 29, 2009 at 9:28 PM

The services for Ted Kennedy were sponsered in part by Planned Parenthood

macncheez on August 29, 2009 at 9:29 PM

Not at all. I’m not the one who just wrote a novel worth of material while intentionally straying away from the subject of a threadand in the meantime bashing every Christian drawing a breath.
So you hate Police and Christians, anyone else?

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 7:45 PM

Where have I bashed “every” Christian, particularly those still drawing breath? If you actually had some reading comprehension you would have seen that I’ve defended Christians on this thread, attributing American Evangelicals’ support for Israel and philo-semitism to their belief in God’s word.

If you think that criticism of historical Christian anti-semitism is bashing of Christians, you’re the one with the problem, not me.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 9:31 PM

TED IS DEAD! Long live the USA.

TruthToBeTold on August 29, 2009 at 9:39 PM

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 9:31 PM

It sure was low how the Democrats used the Kennedy Grandchildren today, wasn’t it?

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 9:40 PM

rokemronnie – do your studies delve any further into the numerical representations or constraints in metaphorical terms for God’s existence and abilities? Sorry in advance if I haven’t asked the question properly.

TWG78 on August 29, 2009 at 9:43 PM

It sure was low how the Democrats used the Kennedy Grandchildren today, wasn’t it?

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 9:40 PM

Far from Low when it comes to Kennedy Standards…

Upstater85 on August 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM

To appease the forum nazis (i kid, i kid) on here, is there another site that I could visit to follow these theological debates?

TWG78 on August 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM

If any other Senator, any one at all, died, none of this stupidity would be happening…

If his name was not Kennedy he would be quietly buried with dignity…heck, if his last name was anything other than Kennedy he would have been jailed 40 years ago…

JIMV on August 29, 2009 at 7:22 PM

+100

if I didn’t know any better, I would have thought a president passed away instead

cmsinaz on August 29, 2009 at 9:47 PM

How about we kill the bill and we do it for Reagan.

The Notorious G.O.P on August 29, 2009 at 9:48 PM

How about we kill the bill and we do it for Reagan.

The Notorious G.O.P on August 29, 2009 at 9:48 PM

…Or put Teddy’s coffin (injected with Seagrams) in the drivers seat of a bus, and put all of Saint Teddidorus’ Dear Senate Friends in the back of the bus…

Upstater85 on August 29, 2009 at 9:50 PM

I don’t believe that Christ above would’ve been pleased with that display of political propaganda inside His Temple. That’s why He did what He did! Basilica’s dirty, needs some scrubing and incense to clear Obama’s agenda.

ProudPalinFan on August 29, 2009 at 8:41 PM

So true. I’m surprised there weren’t any lightening bolts, what with the stormy weather and everything.

Someone early on posted that the petitions didn’t include a petition repeated each week in most Catholic Churches.

for the protection of life from conception until natural death.”

Anyway, we should pray for him and for this country.

May God have mercy on his soul.

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Also, I’d like to add that while I have my issues with the doctrine of the Catholic Church, the fact that it is headquartered in ROME (you know, the place where the people who killed him resided) is a pretty strong argument in favor of a Messiah who will overthrow the earthly government and rule in its stead.

ThackerAgency on August 29, 2009 at 6:25 PM

I knew you’d come around some day! Just kidding. I couldn’t resist. lol

You are wasting your time, my brother. He is not listening to you. He just wants to talk and insult.

God bless you and the others here for your efforts.

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 9:52 PM

I guess this is now OT, but does anyone have a link to the video of MO sleeping during the funeral service? It appears that Youtube has taken it down….

LASue on August 29, 2009 at 6:24 PM

You’re kidding, right? That didn’t really happen, did it?

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 9:53 PM

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 9:53 PM

Thank you. God Bless You too, m’lady. MO apprarently did fall asleep, but the video has already been yanked from you-tube.

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 9:56 PM

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 9:31 PM

Today the Kennedy family used their own children at a funeral for a supposedly-beloved whiskey tub as stagecraft for a Marxist program that Kennedy himself opted-out of.

What do you make of that?

TMK on August 29, 2009 at 10:01 PM

You assume that I believe what I believe because ‘I have been taught’. You can’t fathom that my beliefs come from study and reflection on God’s word.

Was the study and reflection completely without any guidance from another Christian? Were the study materials from non-Christian sources?

I’ve only had the chance to briefly meet Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz, but I’ve read his books and used his edition of the Talmud, so even if I’ve never sat in on his lectures, he’s a teacher of mine.

Almost all of what I know I learned from someone else. I’m not ashamed of my teachers and rabbis. Perhaps you are of yours.

But it doesn’t matter. You know everything (according to you).

Only God is omniscient.

I’ve also been told that many Jews like Christians because of the evangelical nature of our faith.

You’ve been told that by Jews?

In other words, when we preach about Jesus, we have to preach about Judaism. Jews don’t proselytize. You’re welcome.

Not really. When you preach about God, as I said Maimonides pointed out, you spread belief in the God of Abraham. When you preach about Jesus, you’re not preaching about Judaism. Frankly, it’s a bit, dare I say, arrogant, for you to say so. Excuse me if I think that my rabbi knows more Torah than you do.

Jesus came so that ALL THE WORLD may know God. You believe that God is the domain of the Jews and the rest of the world is damned for simply not being Jews.

Actually, I believe, as the rabbis of the Talmud teach, that the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come. In that regard Judaism is unique among the three “Abrahamic” faiths. Christianity teaches that only Christians get into heaven. Islam teaches likewise about Muslim. Judaism doesn’t teach, like Christianity, that people are inherently evil and condemned for it.

You think I’m damned for simply not being a Christian.

We’ve had plenty of examples in the Old Testament of the Jews being wrong. Somehow since Christianity came into existence, we are supposed to believe that the Jews refrained from ever being wrong (especially about the role of Jesus Christ).

Those examples were all cases of the Jews rebelling against God, not cleaving to His Torah.

Jews have made plenty of mistakes. Christianity and the Sabbatean movement were only two of many false messianic movements. The Haskala and the Reform movement were two more recent errors.

But you get to hide behind the ‘woe is me a persecuted Jew in a world full of anti-Semites’ to declare yourself intellectually superior and arbiter of everything holy.

Where have I said it’s world full of anti-Semites? Methinks thou dost protest too much. I’ve specifically said that Evangelicals’ affection for Jews is genuine.

I’ve also not said anything about my intellectual abilities (well, beyond the fact that I am fluent in Hebrew). If you’re insecure about your own intelligence, that’s not my doing. As I said, I know some genuine Torah scholars. Compared to them I’m an ignoramus. I also know at least a couple of true geniuses. That last half a percentile is an exponential difference.

Here’s a news flash . . . YOU COULD BE WRONG.

Not about God, Torah and the Jewish people. If Judaism is false, then so are Christianity and Islam.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 10:04 PM

MO apprarently did fall asleep, but the video has already been yanked from you-tube.

kingsjester on August 29, 2009 at 9:56 PM

Today they yank a you-tube, tomorrow the whole internet, because of a state of emergency.

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 10:13 PM

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 10:04 PM

Oh, hey, since you are here, maybe you can help us with something:

There are these people; we will call them “Democrats.” Anyway, these people really want to control the population, but America has this really awesome medical system that keeps all sorts of, I believe they call them “Undesirables,” it keeps all these Undesirables alive.

So like I was saying, they want to control this medical system so they can control the population, but since people, “Undesireables,” like living, they are throwing up a stink.

So the Democrats thought it would be a good idea to use this pickled cadaver named Dead Ted to make Undesirables accept their rule, plus they are using the corpse’s grandkids to push the message of cruddy death panels on everyone.

Pretty awful, huh?

TMK on August 29, 2009 at 10:14 PM

Today the Kennedy family used their own children at a funeral for a supposedly-beloved whiskey tub as stagecraft for a Marxist program that Kennedy himself opted-out of.

What do you make of that?

TMK on August 29, 2009 at 10:01 PM

I assume that children love their grandparents and that to Democrats, power is more important than anything, even family. Well, unless we’re talking about their families’ power.

I don’t expect much from the Kennedys. The old man’s father was a bootlegger who bought politicians. The old man used his position as ambassador to Great Britain to protect his investments in Germany and brought his girlfriend home to the family compound, in front of his wife and children. They have a peculiar notion of family.

That being said, we all love our families despite their flaws, so I’m sure that Ted’s family members’ grief is genuine.

So a political family did something political. I understand that Pope Benedict follows the Roman rite and bears in fact defecate among trees.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 10:15 PM

Fine, now enlighten us as to how you’re going to PAY FOR IT!
What part of the word “UNSUSTAINABLE” do you not comprehend?

GarandFan on August 29, 2009 at 9:00 PM

I was being sarcastic.
Ted had the luxury of extending his life a few months at great expense. Under Obama Care everyone else gets a bottle of Pain Pills.

I guess I should start using sarc tags or maybe snark

BDU-33 on August 29, 2009 at 10:20 PM

rokemronnie – do your studies delve any further into the numerical representations or constraints in metaphorical terms for God’s existence and abilities? Sorry in advance if I haven’t asked the question properly.

TWG78 on August 29, 2009 at 9:43 PM

A good place to start is Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan’s essay, The God Of Israel 1972.

For further study, R’ Moshe Chaim Luzzato’s Derech HaShem, The Way of God, which was the basis for Rabbi Kaplan’s essay, is a great resource on Jewish theology.

R’ Kaplan teaches that what we know about God can be distilled into six key points:

1. God exists.
2. God is absolutely perfect.
3. God’s existence is absolutely necessary.
4. God is absolutely independent.
5. God is absolutely simple.
6. God is absolutely one.

These six points are really derived from the two most basic things we can say about God:

God is absolutely perfect.
God is absolutely simple.

God cannot “do” anything that would be contrary to those two facts about Him.

In any case, Rabbi Kaplan, of blessed memory, does a much better job than I ever could.

“We can also explain this in terms of a concept mentioned earlier, namely that God is a Perfect Being. As a Pefect Being, God must be omnipotent, that is able to do every possible thing. However, perfection only requires God to be able to do the possible – it does not require Him to be able to do the impossible. And one that that is categorically impossible by the very definition of God as an absolutely perfect Being, is for God to become any less perfect. But any of the abovementioned things such as the creation of another God, His self-destruction, or his making Himself a body, would make God less perfect, and this can be proven formally from the concept of perfection. If a stone existed that could not be lifted by God, then something other than God would exist over which He had no control. Since this would make God less perfect, this is also categorically impossible.

Therefore, we do not ascribe to God the ability to create a stone that He cannot lift.”

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 10:36 PM

If a stone existed that could not be lifted by God, then something other than God would exist over which He had no control. Since this would make God less perfect, this is also categorically impossible.rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 10:36 PM

You sound like a Thomist.

jamarkennedy on August 29, 2009 at 10:41 PM

You sound like a Thomist.

jamarkennedy on August 29, 2009 at 10:41 PM

LOL

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM

Suddenly God decided to start forgiving sins some 1300 years after revealing himself to Abraham? More than a millennium after commanding things like “sin offerings” to “atone”? More than 800 years after Solomon said that our prayers can effect atonement?

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM

Galatians 4:1-7:
“I mean that as long as the heir is not of age, he is no different from a slave, although he is the owner of everything, but he is under the supervision of guardians and administrators until the date set by his father. In the same way we also, when we were not of age, were enslaved to the elemental powers of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to ransom those under the law, so that we might receive adoption. As proof that you are children, God sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God.”

IN THE FULLNESS OF TIME

I know you don’t believe this is the Word of God, but I offer it as an explanation, because I see from your post that you do not understand Christianity as well as you think you do.

God had and has a salvation plan for all men who will accept His grace and have faith. Salvation was to come from his Chosen People. The fact that God revealed Himself to Abraham (in the fullness of time) did not mean that God did not love men before Abraham or have a plan for them. That He chose the Jews did not mean that He was ignoring the rest of mankind. It was His plan for all mankind.

Jesus’ sacrifice did not negate the past sin offerings of the Jews. But it fulfilled God’s promise and brought final salvation to the Jews and to all mankind, through the Jews. In the fullness of time.

Likewise, that God set up the Jewish sacrificial offering system to forgive their sins piece by piece does not negate the fact that God had a Messiah planned for them who would be the New Adam and undo the damage done by Adam. That the gates of Heaven would be opened finally and man reconciled permanently with God through the sacrifice of His one unblemished Lamb. And that all the holy ones before Jesus and since benefited from His sacrifice and could live with Him forever in Heaven.

It is not that God started forgiving sins with Jesus. That is not what Christianity teaches. It is the eternal reward and final reconciliation of God with man, IN THE FULLNESS OF TIME.

I am not here to debate this with you or convince you. Simply to correct what you said Christianity is saying in your quote.

May God bless you.

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 10:50 PM

One Solitary Life

He was born in an obscure village,
The child of a peasant woman.
He grew up in still another village,
Where he worked in a carpenter shop
Until he was thirty.

Then for three years
He was an itinerant preacher.
He never wrote a book.
He never held an office.
He never had a family or owned a house.
He didn’t go to college.
He never visited a big city.
He never traveled two hundred miles
From the place where he was born.
He did none of the things
One usually associates with greatness.
He had no credentials but himself.

He was only thirty-three
When the tide of public opinion turned against him.
His friends ran away.
He was turned over to his enemies.
And went through the mockery of a trial.

He was nailed to a cross
Between two thieves.
While he was dying,
His executioners gambled for his clothing,
The only property he had on Earth.
When he was dead,
He was laid in a borrowed grave
Through the pity of a friend.

Twenty centuries have come and gone,
And today he is the central figure
Of the human race
,
And the leader of mankind’s progress.

All the armies that ever marched,
All the navies that ever sailed,
All the parliament that ever sat,
All the kings that ever reigned,

Put together have not affected
The life of man on Earth
As much as that

One Solitary Life.
~~Dr James Allen Francis, © 1926~~

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 11:14 PM

I am not here to debate this with you or convince you. Simply to correct what you said Christianity is saying in your quote.

May God bless you.

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 10:50 PM

I’m am the constant recipient of God’s blessings, without which the world could not exist.

I was responding to a Christian here who said that God sent Jesus so people’s sins could be forgiven. If that isn’t an accurate description of Christianity, take it up with the original poster, not me.

Likewise, that God set up the Jewish sacrificial offering system to forgive their sins piece by piece does not negate the fact that God had a Messiah planned for them who would be the New Adam and undo the damage done by Adam.

A couple of points. To begin with, you’re describing the Christian take on the sacrificial system, that regards it as a mechanical process (not unlike how Christianity views Judaism as legalistic). It’s clear from Solomon’s prayer consecrating the Temple that forgiveness was possible even in the absence of a sacrificial offering.

As for all the stuff about a “new Adam” and God’s plan for the Messiah is a little confusing. One would think such an important concept would have been mentioned, explicitly, by God. Instead all you have are some allusive proof texts, disputed in your meaning by the very people who have transmitted those same texts.

That the gates of Heaven would be opened finally and man reconciled permanently with God through the sacrifice of His one unblemished Lamb. And that all the holy ones before Jesus and since benefited from His sacrifice and could live with Him forever in Heaven.

So you’re saying that the Jews who died in Auschwitz in conscious rejection of Jesus are burning in Hell and the Nazis who accepted Jesus on their deathbeds are sitting with God in Heaven.

Okee dokey.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 11:21 PM

I did not click….refused to do. thinks they are so going to get their asses whipped in 10.
Do not give up and keep the fight up.
God Bless our Soldiers

hawkman on August 29, 2009 at 11:44 PM

Effective and a great PR move. Cons are just furious they didn’t think of something involving children first. Dems +1.

dcwvu on August 29, 2009 at 11:53 PM

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1025.htm

St Thomas Acquinas – Summa Theologica

Question 25. The power of God

Is there power in God?
Is His power infinite?
Is He omnipotent?
Could He make the past not to have been?
Could He do what He does not, or not do what He does?
Could He make better what He makes?

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 11:55 PM

Just got back from my first moveon.org pro-Obamacare Communist rally. Scary stuff there.

Lyodd Doggett is a coward. After he was humiliated by dissent at his first town hall, he has hidden from his constituents behind moveon.org.

All of the moveon.org volunteers wore green above-the-elbow arm bands. You had to give out your name and other info to get in. On the entrance form, you had to check 1 of 2 Orwellian options:

[_]Yes, I support healthcare reform, or
[_]Yes, I support healthcare reform and would like to volunteer in the following ways….

Lloyd Doggett received several standing ovations. Placards that lined the stage read: “83% [heart] the public option” “public option = affordable healthcare” and “public option saves $$$”

Each speaker made sure to mention a specific health insurance company by name – Aetna, United Health, etc. Each time a health insurance company was named, the crowd “hisssssssssed” on cue as if they were reading from a script.

The cult of Obama personality worship was on full display. Most of the crowd wore Obama T-shirts. One middle aged woman had the Obama “O” logo tattooed on her ankle. Another woman had an “Obama” tiara.

From what I could tell there were three main themes:

1. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” are meaningless without universal healthcare run by the government.

2. Bashing Sarah Palin and ridiculing Obamacare protestors

3. If you don’t support Obama’s healthcare, plan you are not a Christian. (I predict this meme will be especially popular this fall.)

After Doggett’s speech the green armbands marched in lines holding aloft identical placards the read “Thank You Obama.” The crowd rose to its feet and chanted “YES WE CAN” for a solid 60 seconds before dissolving into rapturous cheers.

bitsy on August 29, 2009 at 8:35 PM

Wow. I’m so glad I live in Tyler. I knew Austin was weird, but not that weird. The chanting and rehearsed crap sounds really scary.

NathanG on August 29, 2009 at 11:55 PM

In discussing the Kingdom of God (that Jesus did usher in “in the fullness of time,” as was my main point that went ignored), this was stated:

Christians like myself believe that we live in God’s Kingdom on Earth. The forgiveness of sins is a pretty powerful thing.
ThackerAgency on August 29, 2009 at 6:50 PM

From that you incorrectly extrapolated this:

Suddenly God decided to start forgiving sins some 1300 years after revealing himself to Abraham? More than a millennium after commanding things like “sin offerings” to “atone”? More than 800 years after Solomon said that our prayers can effect atonement?

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM

I’m sorry, but your analysis does not follow. So I do not need to “take it up with the original poster.” He was right.

Jesus’ sacrifice permanently and finally reconciled mankind to God. Reconciled the saints before He lived and the saints after He lived. That includes the Jews who offered sacrificial offerings. Their sins were forgiven, but the were not finally reconciled with God until the New Adam. The gates of Heaven were not open to any man. They were in the bosom of Abraham, awaiting the Messiah. That you do not fully understand this theology or wish to know it does not prove it untrue. I cannot prove it to you from Old Testament scriptures alone, because they do not contain all of God’s revealed Holy Word, only a large part and the earliest revealed Word of God. And you will not accept the New Testament or the oral Sacred Christian Tradition passed on from the Apostles. Only God can prove these things to you, in His own way.

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 11:59 PM

At least the Democrats didn’t pull a Paul Wellstone with this one. In fact, the wake was respectful and I really didn’t expect that. I’m sure they’ll pull out the Teddy card in the week ahead, but at least they didn’t use it much during the funeral.

bflat879 on August 30, 2009 at 12:03 AM

Shameless, shameless. I am so sick of the left telling me what Jesus would do. The same ones who prattle on the loudest and most relentless about what He would do, scream the loudest for abortion rights.

I cringed when I heard the announcement that Ole Wine ‘em, Dine ‘em, and Dunk ‘em had died, bc I KNEW the left would do just exactly what they have done. But even as cynical as I have become, I didn’t foresee going into the church and from the pulpit at a wake and a funeral trying to score political points. Disgusting. And America is NOT this stupid.

By the way, Kennedy’s doctor said he had a good quality of life. As much as I disliked him, that was gratifying to hear. Our Health Care system which the Progressive libs insist is broken provided much of his good quality of life. In any of these other “single payer” countries he wouldn’t have been able to enjoy that quality of life.

His life made an argument for Health Care alright, but not the one the left are trying to define it as.

Minorcan Maven on August 30, 2009 at 12:11 AM

Again you twist words. And in such a hateful and disgusting way. May God have mercy on you. Untruth, even in small ways is not from God. Neither is being obstinate. Beware.

I said:

That the gates of Heaven would be opened finally and man reconciled permanently with God through the sacrifice of His one unblemished Lamb. And that all the holy ones before Jesus and since benefited from His sacrifice and could live with Him forever in Heaven.

Elisa on August 29, 2009 at 10:50 PM

You replied:

So you’re saying that the Jews who died in Auschwitz in conscious rejection of Jesus are burning in Hell and the Nazis who accepted Jesus on their deathbeds are sitting with God in Heaven.
Okee dokey.

rokemronnie on August 29, 2009 at 11:21 PM

Your comment does not follow from mine, so I can only assume you are confused or purposely trying to deceive. I hope it is the former.

Only God can read the hearts and minds of men and know what He calls them to and when and whether they have accepted Him and repented truly. Yes, a Nazi who truly accepted Jesus in the moments between life and death and repented would be saved. Whether He is sitting today in Heaven with God or will one day after his Purgatory for his temporal punishment, I do not know. Our God is just and merciful one. If one accepts His grace, he will not suffer the eternal punishment we all deserve as sinners. To be separated from God forever because we have rejected Him by our sins and said, “I will not serve.” But temporal punishment is something different. And yes, a Nazi, like any other sinner, can be saved.

But remember Matthew’s Gospel: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

Some professed Christians do not have true faith.

As for the poor Jews, many of them holy martyrs, who died in those disgusting camps, HOW DO YOU KNOW how many or if any “consciously rejected Jesus?” Were you there and are you God?

God is outside of time and space and a moment to Him can be like a thousand years. In the moments between life and death, Jesus Himself can present Himself to anyone He wants and give them the grace of faith. And that person can accept the Lord then. It would not deny their Jewishness. They will always be His beloved Chosen people.

The Church teaches that anyone who seeks to do what God desires and believes and loves Him with perfect charity/love, who through no fault of their own does not now believe in Christ, but has implicit faith, that person may receive explicit faith in Him at any time before death, accept him, repent and be saved. Again, we believe in a merciful and just God. In addition, Jesus Himself can baptize that person with His own holy water through Baptism of Desire.

We are not God. We do not know how He will do what He plans. But something we do know is that in Heaven there will be no untruth, only truth. And there will be no sin. So although some “may” be saved on their deathbeds, we do not know who they are. I do not know for sure if I am saved yet, I may fall from grace. I “work out my salvation in fear and trembling.” And I hope in the Lord.

And there will be no sin in Heaven. If someone ever rejects the grace of God and refuses on their deathbed to accept Christ, who is truth, even if He personally presents Himself to that person, it would be because of pride, obstinance, laziness, indifference, hatred or some other sinful reason.

Jews were the main target of the evil Nazis. But not their only target. Over 3 thousand Catholic priests were killed. Like St. Maximillian Kolbe. And the Jewish convert St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross/Edith Stein.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Stein

There were millions of Catholics and other Christians also killed in the Holocaust. There was no need of you to bring it up in our discussions.

Elisa on August 30, 2009 at 12:41 AM

Comment pages: 1 3 4 5 6 7