Congressional Research Service: ObamaCare will cover illegal immigrants

posted at 10:12 am on August 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Mark Tapscott discovers a nugget in the analysis provided by the Congressional Research Office on HR3200, the House version of ObamaCare coming to the floor.  While Barack Obama insists that the idea that ObamaCare will cover illegal immigrants is a “myth,” the CRS points out that the bill does nothing to prevent it.  Since HR3200 doesn’t require people to establish citizenship or legal residency before applying to exchanges for health insurance, including the public option, taxpayer money will certainly flow to illegal immigrants:

In what he called the “first myth” being spread by critics of his proposal for a government-run health care system, Obama said they are wrong in claiming illegal immigrants will be covered: “That is not true. Illegal immigrants would not be covered. That idea has not even been on the table.” Obama said.

Well, Mr. President, that idea must have been tucked under a stack of background briefing papers over there in the corner of the table because the Congressional Research Service (CRS) says this about H.R. 3200, the Obamacare bill approved just before the recess by the House Energy and Commerce Committee chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-CA:

“Under H.R. 3200, a ‘Health Insurance Exchange’ would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange.”

CRS reports do not get released to the public.  CRS offers private analysis to members of Congress on request, but rarely do they see the light of day.  However, David Freddoso got his hands on a copy of the 11-page analysis, “Treatment of Non-Citizens in HR3200″ late last night, and confirmed Tapscott’s reading:

In its subsection on health insurance subsidies (known as “affordability credits”), HR 3200 does state, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.” That would seem to solve the problem, but it’s more rhetoric than reality. The bill contains no verification requirement or enforcement process for citizenship or legal residency, as exists for other federal benefit programs. The only verification required for the subsidies pertains to family income. Beyond that, as the CRS report notes, everything is left in the hands of the Health Choices Commissioner.

House Democrats defeated all attempts in committee to add an enforcement mechanism that would require proof of citizenship or legal residency for those getting subsidies.

CRS also notes that “undocumented aliens” who have a “substantial presence” in the US would be required to buy health insurance (page 4) through the exchanges in HR3200.  They would also become eligible for “emergency Medicaid,” although not normal Medicaid (page 6) for up to five years.

What about Section 246, which I said would prevent the spending of money on illegal aliens?  The CRS analysis is less than impressed with that portion of the bill.  Section “246 would bar unauthorized aliens from receiving any premium or cost-sharing credit,” it says, but that may be hard to enforce.  It also states later that “absent of a provision in the bill specifying the verification procedure, that the Commissioner would be responsible for determining a mechanism to verify the eligibility of noncitizens for the credits” — or in other words, HR3200 fails to provide it entirely.  I gave it a little too much credit, apparently, more than Congress’ own analysts do.

Be sure to read it all.  If Congress tells us that no money will go to cover illegal aliens, we can show them the CRS report and ask them to stop spreading myths.

Update: Congressional Research Service, not Office.  Had it right in the story, not in the headline.  Sorry about that!


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Obama is is not lying. It one thing to say the bill will not work as it should, quite another to allege that the president is consciously misleading the American people.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM

I feel certain you strongly defended Bush from the “Bush lied, people died” charge, right?

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:11 AM

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 10:59 AM

IMO, one of the biggest failures of the filthy liar in the White House has been his communication of what exactly is included in the state seizure of healthcare. Among the outright lies that are consistently part of his message:

1. You can keep your private insurance.

2. The public plan would foster competition, not drive private insurance out of business.

3. The plan will not fund illegal aliens.

4. The plan will not use federal money to fund abortions.

5. The plan would provide greater choice and insure more without adding a single cent to taxpayers.

All of the above are lies. Everybody who is making the claims know that they are lies. Yet we are supposed to trust them. Fat chance.

highhopes on August 28, 2009 at 11:11 AM

In fact, every action that you allow that doesn’t demand proof of citizenship is an explicit invitation for illegals to participate in that action.

Follow along here – if the gov’t is giving an entitlement away – particularly an expensive one, some proof of citizenship should be required. You have to verify (theoretically) your citizenship to be employed. But you argue against proving citizenship for free health care?

The entitlement portion demands proof of citizenship (that Ed finds inadequate, but that’s a different discussion). You might note that the initial paragraph above references participation in the insurance exchange, where your average illegal is just another Jose Siespack playing by the same actuarial odds and paying the same premium as you and I.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Will some illegals get into the system? Undoubtedly. Are they supposed to? No.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Then why, pray tell, was every attempt to add an enforcement provision shut down?

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 11:12 AM

ColtsFan on August 28, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Great post and link.

fourdeucer on August 28, 2009 at 11:13 AM

Obama is is not lying. It one thing to say the bill will not work as it should, quite another to allege that the president is consciously misleading the American people.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM

I feel certain you strongly defended Bush from the “Bush lied, people died” charge, right?

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:11 AM

I am undecided over whether the intellectual failure that led to the Iraq war was a lie, wishful thinking, malicious scheming or just stupidity, and so have no actual opinion on that particular charge.

I have defended W. against charges that he was lying in other situations, stating that he was merely “wrong.”

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:14 AM

quite another to allege that the president is consciously misleading the American people.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Allege??? It is a statement of absolute fact that the rat bastard traitor in the White House is knowingly lying to the American public. He knows that his plot to seize the healthcare system will cost taxpayers more for fewer services. He knows that his plot will fund illegals and abortions. He knows that citizens will be forced out of private insurance and that the private insurance companies will be choked out of business. Yes, moron he knows all that and he is attempting to bamboozle the American public.

But, he isn’t misleading the American public. They know what the truth is and aren’t buying the bastard’s lies. If the filthy liar in the White House thought August was so bad a month that he has to cower at Camp David for an extra vacation, then he’s going to hate September.

highhopes on August 28, 2009 at 11:16 AM

H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange

A Tort lawyer’s dream! Betcha they already ordered Rosetta Stone- Speak Spanish in 90 days….

TN Mom on August 28, 2009 at 11:17 AM

highhopes on August 28, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Communication is not the goal, control is the goal. In fact accurate communication would be an obstacle to obtaining the goal.

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:18 AM

Winston, you just need to accept that sometimes 2 + 2 = 5.

Bru on August 28, 2009 at 11:20 AM

HA!

The only good news in this piece is that illegal aliens would be penalized for being here thru being required to purchase deathcare.

Oh, the irony of violating our borders only to realize your life is no longer your own.

madmonkphotog on August 28, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Winston, you just need to accept that sometimes 2 + 2 = 5.

Bru on August 28, 2009 at 11:20 AM

I never thought I would live to see the day when there were so many parallels to that book in real life. Scary.

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Bleeds Blue -

so far, everything Obama has said about this health care bill is a lie. Why would this be any different?

I don’t htink anything Obama has ever said since begining his run for the presidency has been even close to the truth.

Remember, Bill Ayers is just some guy that lives near him?

Obama is incapable of telling the truth. the fact that you try so hard to defend him despite all the evidence of this proves your name is correct – you bleed blue and will never see reality.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Future bilboard in Mexico:

Pregnant?
FREE abortions in the USA. Just take the dirt road and crawl under the fence…

TN Mom on August 28, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Another day, another lie from the Obama Administration.

Imagine my total surprise and disbelief. :-)

coldwarrior on August 28, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Will some illegals get into the system? Undoubtedly. Are they supposed to? No.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Then why, pray tell, was every attempt to add an enforcement provision shut down?

We Dems have a lot of good friends in the Black and Hispanic community and they tend to view onerous proofs of citizenship or other ID demands as a burden that falls especially hard upon them, and which is often (see various voting ID laws) particularly designed to discourage their participation.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM

BB -

Also, I never believe a lefty when they now claim that they were not so hard on Bush.

currently, no lefty on any blog will admit to having called hitler a nazi, or compared him to hitler, etc., etc. yeah, that 8 years of hysterical screeching was all in our imagination.

Just like it is difficult to find lefty that is too upset that Gitmo has not been closed, that we haven’t left Iraq, etc.

And, I can’t imagine a lefty who will now come forward and admit they railed on Bush for taking a vacation when unemployment was at 4.5% and there was a war on.

Lefties never tell the truth about anything. Whatever position a lefty advocates is merely a political attempt to gain power. there is no principal philosophical thinking going on. Otherwise, lefties would admit they want socialized healthcare b/c they believe in socialism. They would stop raising arguments based on lies, and changing the argument on a daily basis.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:27 AM

We Dems have a lot of good friends in the Black and Hispanic community and they tend to view onerous proofs of citizenship or other ID demands as a burden that falls especially hard upon them, and which is often (see various voting ID laws) particularly designed to discourage their participation.

That is such horseshit. yeah, it is so damn hard to get a driver’s license or state non-driver photo i.d.

I don’t think even you can have a straight face when you typeed that moronic swill.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Democrats pandering to illegals? I’m SHOCKED!

GarandFan on August 28, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Yep. Having to abide by a Nation’s Laws like the rest of the populace sure is an unfair situation. /sarc

Monkeytoe – nice posts on the Teddy Memorial Thread. This one, too. Glad you came aboard in the last Registration.

kingsjester on August 28, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Obama-Kennedy Healthcare Bill

Sounds about right.

All the clarity, competence, and veracity of the Obama administration with the all the empathy of Chappaquiddick.

rlyle on August 28, 2009 at 11:29 AM

You need a photo i.d. to get a job, to rent a video, to rent a car, to enter a federal building.

Yet, it is soo damn hard to get an I.D. to vote?

You are either the dumbest individual to ever live or are so completely blinded by your partisanship that lying through your teeth simply does not bother you.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:30 AM

they tend to view onerous proofs of citizenship or other ID demands as a burden that falls especially hard upon them
Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Yeah it must be onerous to present ID when they cash a check or get on a plane or get a library card or riegister for school or pick up a government subsidy. If you were really their “friend” you would enable them like codependants you would encourage them to grow up and be responsible citizens.

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM

I have defended W. against charges that he was lying in other situations, stating that he was merely “wrong.”

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:14 AM

As our federal government often is. And when the BIG government is wrong, it really hurts!

WashJeff on August 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM

Keep hounding your Senators and Congressmen folks!!!

I don’t care if a proposed bill was decent, good, or practical, if it is to be government run, I want nothing to do with it!

GFW on August 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Just like they are Supposed to have car insurance. Tell that to the hit and run illegal who wrecked my daughter’s car and had no insurance.

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:02 AM

My daughter has been hit four times in three years by illegal aliens. No DL, no insurance and “no hablo Inglés”. And, in Houston, where she lives, there is a sanctuary policy, so the illegals are turned lose to do it again.

Johan Klaus on August 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM

CRS also notes that “undocumented aliens” who have a “substantial presence” in the US would be required to buy health insurance (page 4) through the exchanges in HR3200. They would also become eligible for “emergency Medicaid,” although not normal Medicaid (page 6) for up to five years.

And we all know what happens to “temporary” and “emergency” things under the Feds. they’ll be just like all those “unfortunate” illegals who’ve worked so hard and deserve a chance to stay in America — afterall they are just “undocumented citizens.”

johnsteele on August 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM

“would enable” should be would not enable. Sorry.

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:34 AM

Yeah it must be onerous to present ID when they cash a check or get on a plane or get a library card or riegister for school or pick up a government subsidy. If you were really their “friend” you would enable them like codependants you would encourage them to grow up and be responsible citizens.

Or buy beer or cigarettes. Or enter a bar. Or drive a car for that matter.

Yeah, it is so haaaaaarrd to get an i.d. there are just vast numbers of americans who simply cannot get an i.d. card.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:34 AM

Kingjester –

Thanks. I try.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:35 AM

We Dems have a lot of good friends in the Black and Hispanic community and they tend to view onerous proofs of citizenship or other ID demands as a burden that falls especially hard upon them, and which is often (see various voting ID laws) particularly designed to discourage their participation.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Well it’s an onerous burden on me to pay for shit for illegals who aren’t by law supposed to even be here, much less receive benefits from me.

And what the hell has this got to do with the “Black community”? Did I miss the part where someone said that the “Black community” should be excluded from anything?

So, your basic thesis here is: “We’re pandering and buying votes, so shut up.”

You are an onerous burden to the collective intelligence of this board.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 11:35 AM

“Under H.R. 3200, a ‘Health Insurance Exchange’ would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange.”

This does not suprise me since I am certain we will remain the host for Husseins illegal immigrant Aunt and more than likely at a later date we will be host yet another illegal immigrant relative, the Pot Smoking Brother George!

BigMike252 on August 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM

We Dems have a lot of good friends in the Black and Hispanic community and they tend to view onerous proofs of citizenship or other ID demands as a burden that falls especially hard upon them, and which is often (see various voting ID laws) particularly designed to discourage their participation.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Onerous proof? A photo id? You mean the same as the rest of us are required to provide?

I’m sure you’re concerned about voter fraud, right?

/rolls eyes

Cody1991 on August 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM

they tend to view onerous proofs of citizenship or other ID demands as a burden that falls especially hard upon them
Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Yeah it must be onerous to present ID when they cash a check or get on a plane or get a library card or riegister for school or pick up a government subsidy. If you were really their “friend” you would enable them like codependants you would encourage them to grow up and be responsible citizens.

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM

I’m sure the vast majority of voters in either party have no problem with producing an ID. Just like the Republicans who back voter ID laws, I am purely concerned with the small percentage of voters who lost their drivers license and forgot to get a new one, left their wallet in their other pants, couldn’t find their pocketbook when the ACORN volunteer came by to register them or whatever. Whose numbers are tiny but could tip an election. Republicans want to keep them from voting. I want them, if they are legal, to vote. And the fact that it’s a conscious effort to suppress minority turnout rankles.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM

and which is often (see various voting ID laws) particularly designed to discourage their participation.

Another baseless lie. You should run for president.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Johan Klaus on August 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Burns me up. Same thing with my daughter. The other driver, no license, no insurance etc., fled the scene and had the nerve to send her husband back to claim she was pregnant and hurt and had to go to the ER because of the wreck she caused. I feel sure if she did go to the hospital she didn’t pay that either, just soaked the system.

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:40 AM

We Dems have a lot of good friends in the Black and Hispanic community and they tend to view onerous proofs of citizenship or other ID demands as a burden that falls especially hard upon them, and which is often (see various voting ID laws) particularly designed to discourage their participation.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Democrats always find friends among those who despise the laws and the Constitution of the United States, and excuses for those who break them. No new news there.

runner on August 28, 2009 at 11:40 AM

I’m sure the vast majority of voters in either party have no problem with producing an ID. Just like the Republicans who back voter ID laws, I am purely concerned with the small percentage of voters who lost their drivers license and forgot to get a new one, left their wallet in their other pants, couldn’t find their pocketbook when the ACORN volunteer came by to register them or whatever. Whose numbers are tiny but could tip an election. Republicans want to keep them from voting. I want them, if they are legal, to vote. And the fact that it’s a conscious effort to suppress minority turnout rankles.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM

You do realize that you just argued that minorities are the only ones who lose their drivers’ licenses, left their wallet…etc.?

Keep digging.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 11:41 AM

I am purely concerned with the small percentage of voters who lost their drivers license and forgot to get a new one, left their wallet in their other pants, couldn’t find their pocketbook when the ACORN volunteer came by to register them or whatever. Whose numbers are tiny but could tip an election. Republicans want to keep them from voting. I want them, if they are legal, to vote. And the fact that it’s a conscious effort to suppress minority turnout rankles.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM

You’ve been called on this bullshit before. Sheesh…. anyone who is stupid enough to leave their id in another pair of pants, can’t be bothered to replace their driver’s license, etc. is probably too stupid to be voting.

But that’s not really your concern or motive, is it?

Cody1991 on August 28, 2009 at 11:42 AM

I am purely concerned with the small percentage of voters who lost their drivers license and forgot to get a new one, left their wallet in their other pants, couldn’t find their pocketbook when the ACORN volunteer came by to register them

“my dog ate my ID”, don’t forget those

runner on August 28, 2009 at 11:44 AM

Ogabe Lied. ClunkerCare Died.

Ogabe on August 28, 2009 at 11:45 AM

Whose numbers are tiny but could tip an election. Republicans want to keep them from voting. I want them, if they are legal, to vote. And the fact that it’s a conscious effort to suppress minority turnout rankles.

That is such a lie. A – if you are not responsible enough to do these things, you should not vote.

B- voter fraud is a greater problem than this tiny minority you are talking about – and that voter fraud is entirely on the left – ACORN and the like.

the only reason lefties don’t want i.d.s for voting is b/c they want to continue the voter fraud.

You people are so dishonest and despicable. I honestly don’t know how you live with yourselves.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Throughout the campaign by Obumbler is rebuttals to valid questions have NEVER sited anything in the bill. His rebuttal is “Because I say so.”

jukin on August 28, 2009 at 11:50 AM

You’ve been called on this bullshit before. Sheesh…. anyone who is stupid enough to leave their id in another pair of pants, can’t be bothered to replace their driver’s license, etc. is probably too stupid to be voting.

Of course, in a lefty’s mind, nobody should be responsible for themselves, their actions and their decisions. That’s why they want gov’t to control every aspect of our lives. that and wealth redistribution.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:51 AM

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Exactly. If this were a really issue, it would cut both ways. The small percentage of people who couldn’t locate their IDs on election would be relatively even and would not influence even a close election.

The Democrats are the Party of fraud, waste, abuse, corruption and incompetence.

NoDonkey on August 28, 2009 at 11:53 AM

I’m sure the vast majority of voters in either party have no problem with producing an ID. Just like the Republicans who back voter ID laws, I am purely concerned with the small percentage of voters who lost their drivers license and forgot to get a new one, left their wallet in their other pants, couldn’t find their pocketbook when the ACORN volunteer came by to register them or whatever.

Bwhahahaha…
You sure you’re not a Conservative trying to write like a leftist to ridicule them?
That’s some great comic relief for a Friday never the less…

Whose numbers are tiny but could tip an election.

Well written to make fun of the leftist position.

Republicans want to keep them from voting. I want them, if they are legal, to vote.

“if they are legal” – that’s the first line that made me suspicious that you aren’t really the typical Statist.

And the fact that it’s a conscious effort to suppress minority turnout rankles.
Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM

Okay, seriously now – You mean like post uniform personnel outside a pooling place brandishing nightsticks?

Chainsaw56 on August 28, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Of course, in a lefty’s mind, nobody should be responsible for themselves, their actions and their decisions.

Disagree, we are all responsible for slavery, the bombing of Hiroshima, inner city poverty, teen pregnancy, STD rates, global warming, poverty in the Congo, illiteracy, etc.

They only thing we’re not responsible for are the things we can actually control.

It’s very simple.

NoDonkey on August 28, 2009 at 11:55 AM

Of course, abortion is not mentioned in the bill. They do not have say abortion when it will be considered a “medical procedure”. It will fall under a medical category, thus hidden from the public eye and opposing views.

txstar on August 28, 2009 at 11:56 AM

Okay, seriously now – You mean like post uniform personnel outside a pooling place brandishing nightsticks?

Chainsaw56 on August 28, 2009 at 11:54 AM

That should be Polling place.

Chainsaw56 on August 28, 2009 at 11:56 AM

If 100 people in every state had a legitimate reason that they could not come up with an i.d. on voting day, I would be surprised.

How anyone can really believe that is a valid reason not to require an i.d. is suspect in and of itself.

Meanwhile, the dems routinely try and disenfranchise military voters.

It is truly sickening.

And yet they drip with moral righteousness. They simply have no ability to actually see themselves and their actions.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 12:01 PM

“That is not true. Illegal immigrants would not be covered. That idea has not even been on the table.” Obama said.

So, Bleeds Blue, if this statment by Obama is true and not a lie, then you would be willing to write the White House as a democrat and insist that Obama demand an enforcement mechanism be in the bill?

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 12:05 PM

And, by the way, if Obama care passes, and we are all issued an Obama care i.d., why then couldn’t we require I.D. for voting?

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 12:05 PM

That’s why they want gov’t to control every aspect of our lives. that and wealth redistribution.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 11:51 AM

Yep. I read one of the arguments against photo id requirements by a Democrat. He claimed that so many of their voters were illiterate and poor that they couldn’t manage to get or afford a proper id. That pretty much sums up Dem voters. They do what they are told, and that is to vote for more of others money. Heck, many of them don’t even have to worry about getting to the polls on their own. The Dems will pick them up and bus them in.

Remember all those buses underwater when Katrina hit? I’ve always wondered why Nagin and the Dem governor (can’t remember her name) couldn’t get people out of the way before the storm hit. If it had been an election, they would have done anything to get people to the polls.

Cody1991 on August 28, 2009 at 12:06 PM

ObamaCare will cover illegal immigrants

Thank God its KennedyCare now. They would never cover illegals

Bicyea on August 28, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Communication is not the goal, control is the goal. In fact accurate communication would be an obstacle to obtaining the goal.

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 11:18 AM

Which is why this whole “reform” thing is a joke and why I am justified in calling the resident of the White House a filthy liar.

highhopes on August 28, 2009 at 12:07 PM

Looks like Blue got a case of athlete’s tongue, sometimes known as foot-in-mouth disease.

I would love to hear how “disenfranchising” someone who lost their ID amounts to discrimination against minorities.

I really would.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:07 PM

I have felt from the beginning that if this information ever got out to enough people it alone would be enough to bring this bill crashing to the ground. I believe the GOP is afraid to bring it up – hell, they’re afraid to bring anything up. Most of them are missing in action. I want them to stand up and condemn this whole bill loudly and proudly. The American people are out fighting (literally) tooth and nail and for the most part our congress people are silent. I’m disgusted with all of them. I’m getting angrier by the day at the Dem crooks getting by with not paying taxes and all other crooked crap, and now Rangel not even declaring part of his. We are just the peons out here who would go to jail if we did half the stuff they did.

Here I am a citizen of this country who paid taxes and social security all my life, now on Medicare and knowing my healthcare will be cut to pay for illegal aliens health care. How despicable is that?

silvernana on August 28, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Thank God its KennedyCare now. They would never cover illegals

Bicyea on August 28, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Just an idea here but let’s not call it Kennedycare. Let’s not rally around the barely cold corpse of a guy who, though for socialized healthcare, didn’t really have a hand in this legislation. Let’s call it Obamacare or if accuracy is the thing, let’s call it the Pelosi-Dodd reform act.

highhopes on August 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Obama wasn’t exactly telling a lie when he said coverage for illegals, in the bill, “was not even on the table;” because the committee Democrats made sure that it was taken off … No, I mean, committe Democrats had wanted the status quo to be … No, I think that…

I have to take that back. No way to get around it. Our President was either exactly lying at most, or exactly bamboozling us at least. The argument seems to be, “this bill, HR3200, does not dictate coverage for illegals; it only “enables” coverage for illegals.

G. Charles on August 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Here I am a citizen of this country who paid taxes and social security all my life, now on Medicare and knowing my healthcare will be cut to pay for illegal aliens health care. How despicable is that?

silvernana on August 28, 2009 at 12:09 PM

It’s going to be interesting to see which is more contentious. The funding of illegals or the funding of abortions. One thing is for certain. If the politicians thought they could go home and hold a few sham town halls and get this passed in September they had better re-think their autumn.

highhopes on August 28, 2009 at 12:12 PM

I have to take that back. No way to get around it. Our President was either exactly lying at most, or exactly bamboozling us at least. The argument seems to be, “this bill, HR3200, does not dictate coverage for illegals; it only “enables” coverage for illegals.

G. Charles on August 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM

The nuance between lying and bamboozling is lost on me. The filthy liar in the White House has made absolute statements that illegals would not be covered. The legislation leaves loopholes at the very least (IMO they are intentional for backdooring in illegals). The President knew this and he lied.

highhopes on August 28, 2009 at 12:16 PM

If the politicians thought they could go home and hold a few sham town halls and get this passed in September they had better re-think their autumn.

highhopes on August 28, 2009 at 12:12 PM

More than a few of them better start looking for a “real job”.

They underestimate the discontent of the majority of their constituents of all stripes.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:16 PM

And, by the way, if Obama care Kopechnekare passes , and we are all issued an Obama care Kopechnekare i.d., why then couldn’t we require I.D. for voting?
Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Hmmmm Good question! If we can all be required to have a national ID card.. Papers Please!!!! ….. for Kopechnekare …

Why can’t we be required to have ID for those unimportant things like… Voting.

Chainsaw56 on August 28, 2009 at 12:17 PM

They underestimate the discontent of the majority of their constituents of all stripes.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:16 PM

God, that’s an awful sentence.

They underestimate the discontent brewing among the majority of their constituents, no matter their political persuasion or circumstance.

Better.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Even if it required proof, it would still cover many bolder folks. Picking up that is simple.

AnninCA on August 28, 2009 at 12:26 PM

But hey, if you’re idea of a good time is throwing another level of bureaucracy into out lives, go for it.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 10:46 AM

So you’re perfectly okay with creating a massive new federal bureaucracy to force every American to purchase government-approved health insurance, and a massive new federal bureaucracy to administer government-financed health insurance to those who can’t afford to purchase private health insurance, but you absolutely draw the line at asking anybody to provide ID before they get taxpayer-financed healthcare services — because that would add another layer of bureaucracy into our lives?

Are you really an idiot, or do you just play one on the internet?

AZCoyote on August 28, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Even if it required proof, it would still cover many bolder folks. Picking up that is simple.

AnninCA on August 28, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Are you drunk?

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:28 PM

AZCoyote on August 28, 2009 at 12:27 PM

The amount of bullshit that Blue is willing to sling is obviously not bound to any sense of credibility or honesty.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:32 PM

OT:
Hey AnninCA, the other day you mentioned your dog, what kind (breed) do you have?

Chainsaw56 on August 28, 2009 at 12:33 PM

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Just like the Democrats, he’s flinging anything against the wall in the hopes of dragging this POS of a Bill across the finish line.

Because once it’s done, they’ll have the fed agencies in charge of excecution, interpret in a way that will include everything that they told us it wouldn’t do.

Then they’ll gloat and congratulate themselves for putting yet another one over on us.

Debate with these people is a waste of time because they are morally bankrupt and intellectually dishonest.

Defeating them is the only option. Kill this bill.

NoDonkey on August 28, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Defeating them is the only option. Kill this bill.

NoDonkey on August 28, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Ten dash four.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Even if it required proof, it would still cover many bolder folks. Picking up that is simple.

AnninCA on August 28, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Are you saying that this bill is a bad idea, or are you saying that we might as well include the illegals because they will end up being covered anyway?

Or am I missing something here?

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Even if it required proof, it would still cover many bolder folks. Picking up that is simple.

AnninCA on August 28, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Are you drunk?

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:28 PM

…on stupid.

HornetSting on August 28, 2009 at 12:43 PM

…on stupid.

HornetSting on August 28, 2009 at 12:43 PM

Well, there’s that.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 12:44 PM

“Do it for Teddy”

Two for one special….paying for criminals in this country illegally for government healthcare.

HornetSting on August 28, 2009 at 12:44 PM

If it’s such a ‘myth’ that illegal immigrants will be covered, why do DeadDrunkKillerKare supporters still use the “47 million uninsured” number to justify their government takeover?

Without illegal immigrants, if they were honest about it, the uninsured number would be more like 27 to 35 million (25% to 40% less).

And that number still includes those that could afford health insurance if they chose to instead of iphones, HDTV and Chivas Regal.

starboardhelm on August 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM

I’m confused. Just what the heck does “‘undocumented aliens’ who have a ‘substantial presence’” mean? Is this a family of illegals ‘anchored’ by one baby?

Bob in VA on August 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM

I’m sure the vast majority of voters in either party have no problem with producing an ID. Just like the Republicans who back voter ID laws, I am purely concerned with the small percentage of voters who lost their drivers license and forgot to get a new one, left their wallet in their other pants, couldn’t find their pocketbook when the ACORN volunteer came by to register them or whatever. Whose numbers are tiny but could tip an election. Republicans want to keep them from voting. I want them, if they are legal, to vote. And the fact that it’s a conscious effort to suppress minority turnout rankles.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM

You do realize that you just argued that minorities are the only ones who lose their drivers’ licenses, left their wallet…etc.?

Keep digging.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 11:41 AM

For whatever reason, the very old, the very young, and minorities are disproportionately disenfranchised by voter ID laws. It’s not just scatter-brained-ness, there are transportation issues, dislike of authorities, job restrictions (getting time off to go to the courthouse) and so on. That’s why Republicans like them. And it’s discrimination because it is a conscious effort to reduce their participation for partisan political reasons. Pretty simple.

Again, it’s a pretty small number but when a presidency can be decided by 600 votes, and a couple of Senate seats by similar amounts, it can be significant and both sides know it.

If there were an IQ test for voting, plenty of people on both sides would be disqualified.

That is not true. Illegal immigrants would not be covered. That idea has not even been on the table.” Obama said.

So, Bleeds Blue, if this statment by Obama is true and not a lie, then you would be willing to write the White House as a democrat and insist that Obama demand an enforcement mechanism be in the bill?

txmomof6 on August 28, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Again, speaking to someone upthread, I believe that when Obama made this statement he was making a point that there was no provision meant to purposely and legally extend coverage to undocumented (does it annoy you when I use “undocumented? If not, I’ll go back to “illegal”)workers, which is a legitimate concern.

I personally don’t care if he fights for an enforcement mechanism or not, because I think the effect one way or the other is going to be negligible, but I’d drop him a line suggesting that he might consider doing so in order to build support. And then he’d write me back and say “why should I pi** off my allies when they people who want this are not going to support my plan anyway?” And I’d say., “got a point there.”

PS: despite appearances at times, I do have another life and so can’t always play gila monster with these discussions. If I don’t respond, don’t read too much into it.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 12:54 PM

For whatever reason, the very old, the very young, and minorities are disproportionately disenfranchised by voter ID laws.

And you have evidence of this . . . where exactly?

That’s why Republicans like them.

We like rules that require voters have IDs because we live by the rules and we play by the rules.

You smug, arrogant little punk. You have the nerve to assume that my motivation behind this is that I want to take away someone’s right to vote. You clown act.

What I don’t want, is the right to vote to be made a mockery of, to be gamed and for legitimate votes to be nullified by phony votes.

You and your corrupt, incompetent, arrogant jackass Democrat Party are a perfect fit.

NoDonkey on August 28, 2009 at 1:04 PM

For whatever reason, the very old, the very young, and minorities are disproportionately disenfranchised by voter ID laws. It’s not just scatter-brained-ness, there are transportation issues, dislike of authorities, job restrictions (getting time off to go to the courthouse) and so on. That’s why Republicans like them. And it’s discrimination because it is a conscious effort to reduce their participation for partisan political reasons. Pretty simple.

Unsubstantiated BS.

Republicans like voter ID laws because they discourage and curtail voter fraud, such as multiple votes, voting by illegal aliens, felons, and others who are disqualified by law.

Oh yeah, I forgot the dead people.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 1:10 PM

For whatever reason, the very old, the very young, and minorities are disproportionately disenfranchised by voter ID laws. It’s not just scatter-brained-ness, there are transportation issues, dislike of authorities, job restrictions (getting time off to go to the courthouse) and so on. That’s why Republicans like them. And it’s discrimination because it is a conscious effort to reduce their participation for partisan political reasons. Pretty simple.

Let’s see. An ID requirement to vote would effect a minority’s transportation how? Dislike of authorities? Exactly what does this have to do w/ requiring someome to have an ID? (keep in mind, they need an ID to drive, cash checks, buy cigaretts and beer, enter bars, rent a car or video, enter a federal building, or get gov’t entitlements).

What does getting time off work to go to the courthouse have to do with an ID requirement?

And requiring a voter id to prevent fraud is not an attempt to discriminate. You can make that claim all you want, but we both no it is not true.

You have no arguments, you’ve made no arguments, and your posted comments show you to be dumb as a rock.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:18 PM

I personally don’t care if he fights for an enforcement mechanism or not, because I think the effect one way or the other is going to be negligible, but I’d drop him a line suggesting that he might consider doing so in order to build support. And then he’d write me back and say “why should I pi** off my allies when they people who want this are not going to support my plan anyway?” And I’d say., “got a point there.”

Gee, if he knows an enforcement mechanism will piss off his allies, he knows the bill as written will cover illegals. Ergo, he is lying.

Your defense of him continues to actually prove that he lies when his mouth moves.

Again, could you be any less intelligent?

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:19 PM

I am purely concerned with the small percentage of voters who lost their drivers license and forgot to get a new one, left their wallet in their other pants, couldn’t find their pocketbook when the ACORN volunteer came by to register them or whatever……And the fact that it’s a conscious effort to suppress minority turnout rankles.

I understand why you wanted to reframe your argument, but you really, really need to quit digging.

It’s been fun, but time’s not an unlimited commodity.

Later.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2009 at 1:20 PM

Bleeds Blue,

In all seriousness, are you capable of honesty? Or, like your name suggests, do you really only care about passing the socialist agenda at all costs?

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:20 PM

Hey Bleeds Blue.

Based on your argument above, you should agree with all of the following:

I don’t like authority. therefore, I should not have to present an I.D. when I buy a gun. I also have a hard time getting time off from work. therefore I should not have to present an I.D. when buying a gun. My car broke down. Therefore I should not have to present an I.D. when buying a gun.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:23 PM

For whatever reason, the very old, the very young, and minorities are disproportionately disenfranchised by voter ID laws.

And you have evidence of this . . . where exactly?

Right here.

We like rules that require voters have IDs because we live by the rules and we play by the rules.

You smug, arrogant little punk. You have the nerve to assume that my motivation behind this is that I want to take away someone’s right to vote. You clown act.

What I don’t want, is the right to vote to be made a mockery of, to be gamed and for legitimate votes to be nullified by phony votes.

You and your corrupt, incompetent, arrogant jackass Democrat Party are a perfect fit.

NoDonkey on August 28, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Yeah yeah yeah. Pretend there’s a crisis when there isn’t one, shove through legislation solving a problem that doesn’t exist but that happens to benefit your side and then wrap the cheap ribbon of phony patriotism around it.

Sounds like the GOP battle plan, all right.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Also,

I lost my ID. therefore I should not have to present an I.D. when buying a gun.

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Yeah yeah yeah. Pretend there’s a crisis when there isn’t one, shove through legislation solving a problem that doesn’t exist but that happens to benefit your side and then wrap the cheap ribbon of phony patriotism around it.

Umm, stupid ass – that’s what Obama and you are doing with a) climate change and b) health care.

Do ever think?

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:25 PM

If ObamaCare passed it would require ids.

so you must be against it b/c it would disenfranchise minorities from health care, right?

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:27 PM

And there is gambling going on in here?

Branch Rickey on August 28, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:25 PM

No. He doesn’t. It’s something he doesn’t do very well. By the way, your buddy from the other thread threatened me the other day, too.

kingsjester on August 28, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Another clue that they are scheming to cover illegal aliens-

HR 3200 Section 2251 (CULTURAL AND LINGUISTIC COMPETENCY TRAINING FOR HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS):

`(d) Preference- In awarding grants and contracts under this section, the Secretary shall give preference to entities that have a demonstrated record of the following:
`(1) Addressing, or partnering with an entity with experience addressing, the cultural and linguistic competency needs of the population to be served through the grant or contract.
`(2) Addressing health disparities.
`(3) Placing health professionals in regions experiencing significant changes in the cultural and linguistic demographics of populations, including communities along the United States-Mexico border.

Buy Danish on August 28, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Yeah yeah yeah. Pretend there’s a crisis when there isn’t one, shove through legislation solving a problem that doesn’t exist but that happens to benefit your side and then wrap the cheap ribbon of phony patriotism around it.

Umm, stupid ass – that’s what Obama and you are doing with a) climate change and b) health care.

Do ever think?

Monkeytoe on August 28, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Really? Because it is a fact that health care costs are ridiculous and climbing and that tens of millions are uninsured. I’m pretty sure that most CEOs of the Fortune 500 — whose pre-recession profits were less than their health care costs — would agree that there’s a crisis.

And, with climate change, I’m with the preponderance of scientific consensus. And, unlike with voter ID, there’s no obvious political payoff for climate change legislation. We just think it needs to be done.

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Bleeds Blue on August 28, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Legislation about Climate Change and Healthcare is not about fulfilling any idealistic goals. It is about power and control over people’s lives and the subjugation of individual freedoms to the glory of The State.

kingsjester on August 28, 2009 at 1:43 PM

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