Big winners in Cash for Clunkers: Toyota, Honda, and Nissan; Update: Parts business big losers?

posted at 8:48 am on August 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The Obama administration spent three billion dollars subsidizing the destruction of 700,000 vehicles in order to boost car sales.  Which auto makers actually benefited from these American tax subsidies?  Reuters reports that foreign car manufacturers gained market share, while the two bailed-out American automakers lost significant portions of theirs in the big summer sale.  Only Ford managed to hold its own:

Transportation Department figures on the “clunkers” incentive, which offered consumers up to $4,500 when they traded in their older vehicles for more fuel efficient new models, showed on Wednesday that total sales amounted to just under 700,000 with $2.87 billion in rebates. …

According to the figures, Toyota’s “clunkers” market share was 19.4 percent, compared with its year-to-date U.S. share through July of 17 percent. Honda captured 13 percent of the “clunkers” market compared with 11 percent for the first seven months of the year.

Nissan accounted for nearly 9 percent of “clunkers” sales compared with a January-July share of 7 percent. Hyundai was the biggest winner with a 7 percent share compared with 3 percent for the year through July.

Ford’s “clunkers” sales topped 14 percent, compared with a 15 percent share for the year through July. GM reported 17 percent of “clunkers” business compared with 21 percent from January to July. Chrysler’s “clunkers” share was 6.6 percent, compared with 11 percent otherwise.

Ford had the only two American-made vehicles in the top 10 models sold in Cash for Clunkers.  Toyota and Honda both had three, while Nissan and Hyundai both had one each.  Two of Toyota’s entries were in the top three, the Corolla and the Camry.

Why did GM and Chrysler, both owned in part by the same government that launched C4C, do so poorly?  In part, they didn’t have cars to sell.  Both GM and Chrysler had curtailed their production during their bankruptcies but had worked to have inventory ready for the new sales year.  By launching C4C in the middle of the summer, when most dealers are already cutting prices to move inventory off the lot, the administration practically guaranteed that C4C would leave them on the sidelines.  Chrysler had the worst inventory problems, but GM also had serious inventory issues.  Ford, which didn’t take the bailout, had continued production and had inventory ready to sell.

Shouldn’t the owner of GM and Chrysler had known this?  Didn’t anyone on the Auto Task Force — say, Ron Bloom, the auto czar with no automaking experience — bother to check whether their companies were ready to compete in this program, and whether July was a smart time to launch this even apart from that?  This is what happens when government enters the private sector; it makes decisions based on politics rather than sound business sense, and it picks leaders based on cronyism and political payoffs rather than expertise and competence.

Update: Commenter Daft Punk lists the top ten models destroyed in C4C:

  1. Ford Explorer 4WD
  2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
  3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
  4. Ford Explorer 2WD
  5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan 2WD
  6. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
  7. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
  8. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
  9. Ford F150 Pickup 4WD
  10. Ford Windstar FWD Van

All of these are American models.  Now, what happens to the companies that make parts for these cars?  Under normal circumstances, people would replace parts as they fail while keeping the cars on the road.  Suddenly, the after-market parts industry has 700,000 fewer cars for maintenance.  And since Americans mainly traded American cars for foreign vehicles, that parts market will not bounce back for years.

Smooooooooth move.

Blowback

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Comment pages: 1 2

Who is surprised about this. A lot of people are going to avoid GM and Chrysler like the plague.

TXMomof3 on August 27, 2009 at 8:51 AM

We bought an Edsel of a president, can he be recalled?

NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 8:53 AM

Shouldn’t the owner of GM and Chrysler had known this? Didn’t anyone on the Auto Task Force — say, Ron Bloom, the auto czar with no automaking experience — bother to check whether their companies were ready to compete in this program, and whether July was a smart time to launch this even apart from that? This is what happens when government enters the private sector; it makes decisions based on politics rather than sound business sense, and it picks leaders based on cronyism and political payoffs rather than expertise and competence.

But this is the smartest administration evah!!

ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 8:53 AM

LOL

And this is what the Obamacrats tout as a “success.”

ECONOMIC FAIL.

Good Lt on August 27, 2009 at 8:53 AM

You are so right Ed,let’s hope the rest of the country sees these results and wakes up to realize we do not want the gov. in charge of the private sector!

ohiobabe on August 27, 2009 at 8:54 AM

But this is the smartest administration evah!!

Just ask them!

They’ll tell you. And tell you some more. And brag and gloat some more.

All the while, they’re crapping the bed on every issue imaginable.

But let’s all agree that they are brilliant. Donkey smart.

NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Honestly, were these results all that surprising? There is very, very little, if anything at all that could fairly be called a shrewd move by this administration.
They’re like a rookie running back that keeps fumbling the ball and costing the team some games. At some point you’ve got to bench him.

Jeff from WI on August 27, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Again, NO LEGISLATOR ATTEMPTED to specify that the program apply only to domestics.

America has never established marketing equal rights with Japan. Exactly what do we owe Japan or Korea? NADA; visa versa. And we’ll get absolutely no gratitude from them, as self interested opportunistic Asia deems America the land of green giant fools.

Note well the realistic estimate that US Unemployment is at 16%, and everything that Obama misleads our nation into only makes things worse.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 8:58 AM

They aren’t rookies. They are destroying this economy purposefully.

BetseyRoss on August 27, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Ah yes, another resounding success by Obama and his merry band of Marxist fools.

rplat on August 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM

A week before C4C started, I bought a new Chevy Traverse. I felt like I was doing them a favor. My sense of charity, and the fact that I have a third child on the way were the major motovations for purchasing a new GM car.

BohicaTwentyTwo on August 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM

Giving the Black Panthers a pass for voter intimidation; watching union thugs beat-up civilians without any fear of paying a price…

F**k unions! Government intervention into the private sector for the sole purpose of giving corporations to the unions while screwing over the private share holders out of their investments.

I hope GM fails miserably. I hope all unions fail miserably. I can’t remember one union member standing up for the private citizens who have been harmed by their union brothers.

Keemo on August 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM

You really can’t make this stiff up.

rob verdi on August 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM

I meant stuff, but we are getting stiffed.

rob verdi on August 27, 2009 at 9:00 AM

Dopes. Idiots. Clueless.

CEA_Agent on August 27, 2009 at 9:01 AM

Meanwhile, every one of the top ten since destroyed trade-ins were Big 3:

Top C4C Trade-Ins
1. Ford Explorer 4WD
2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
4. Ford Explorer 2WD
5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan 2WD
6. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
7. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
8. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
9. Ford F150 Pickup 4WD
10. Ford Windstar FWD Van

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090826/AUTO01/908260405/1148/auto01/Detroit+Three+market+share+sinks+as++Clunkers++ends

Daft Punk on August 27, 2009 at 9:02 AM

Jeff from WI on August 27, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Your football analogy falls flat.

In the NFL, no one would start a QB straight out of high school, no matter how talented he might seem.

But that’s important stuff.

Whereas, the security and economic health of our nation is just a game and we can put a junior high whiz kid into the highest office in the land, because he is black and because he makes pretty speeches.

Because that’s not really all that important.

NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 9:02 AM

LOL

And this is what the Obamacrats tout as a “success.”

ECONOMIC FAIL.

Good Lt on August 27, 2009 at 8:53 AM

The joke’s on us, at our expense. These Obatomized politicians just “bought” as many votes as participated in the purchases while simultaneously pushing otherwise stable and healthy dealerships into bankruptcy. AS IF all dealers will be reimbursed as “promised” by the program.

This entire administration has NO REGARD for contract law, nor for rule of law. They will prosecute in order to punish opponents, but also obliterate any justice, denying “standing”.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:03 AM

Again, NO LEGISLATOR ATTEMPTED to specify that the program apply only to domestics.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 8:58 AM

The only way to save American auto makers is to get all of the good cars off the market.

/sarc

MarkTheGreat on August 27, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Again, NO LEGISLATOR ATTEMPTED to specify that the program apply only to domestics.
___________________________________________

Doing so what have most likely set off an international firestorm of protest over protectionist trade policies conflicting with existing trade agreements, and could have had serious ramifications. In addition, with many of the foreign cars being made here, those workers would have been discriminated against, with a corresponding outcry of protest and accusations.

ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 9:05 AM

I think the C4C program was to originally end in September. Is this when the new car lines are typically rolled out? I’m not sure. Anyway, there had to be definite mis-communication with the auto industries or a lack of understanding of the seasonal market fluctuation.

The rush to add more money to the program was completely idiotic. They should have let the initial money get used up, the forms submitted, the “oh no we don’t have the resources to handle the paper work” situation get worked out, an analysis of the program, and THEN decide if more money should be added to the program. But that would require rational thinking. Instead we got screaming about how “effective the program was” and another $2,000,000,000 spent.

CBP on August 27, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Shouldn’t the owner of GM and Chrysler had known this? Didn’t anyone on the Auto Task Force — say, Ron Bloom, the auto czar with no automaking experience — bother to check whether their companies were ready to compete in this program, and whether July was a smart time to launch this even apart from that?

The government couldn’t wait, C4C wasn’t about helping industry, it was about appeasing the electorate the Democrat Party is only interested in buying votes.

Rode Werk on August 27, 2009 at 9:06 AM

I see it as a failure. Obama probably sees it as a reason to establish more control. This government doesn’t like it when we are free to choose. We clearly don’t know how to follow the plan.

sherry on August 27, 2009 at 9:06 AM

I’m a “free trade” believer, all the way, but in this instance I think that the C4C program should have been limited to American owned auto companies…

I’m familiar with all of the “jobs” arguments, and the notion that they are often used to provide justification for buying a Japanese car to many who would otherwise “but American”. Folks can do what they want, after all, it is still a free country…

But it’s an indisputable fact that some sizeable percentage of the purchase price of every Japanese car, that represents the net profits of that unit sale, ultimately goes back to Japan to line one of their industrialists pocket. And so it seems then, that US spendulus funds were used to stimulate the Japanese economy…directly!

And that revoltin’ development my friends is yet another reason to hate C4C kind of programs, and the amateurish Obama administration’s touting of them as such a great success…

RocketmanBob on August 27, 2009 at 9:06 AM

Government Motors can’t compete even when they make the rules. GM and Chrysler should have been cut free to fail. There will be plenty of competition to pick up the pieces.

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:07 AM

Ford had the only two American-made vehicles in the top 10 models sold in Cash for Clunkers. Toyota and Honda both had three, while Nissan and Hyundai both had one each. Two of Toyota’s entries were in the top three, the Corolla and the Camry.

Ford took a gamble and remained independant. I hope that pays off.

This is the result of multinational corporations. Chrysler can’t compete in the world markets anymore. It will probably fold or remain under government control. GM is another story all I can think is “what were they thinking?” GM unloaded a large part of their debt and will come back reshapped in the image of Toyota still a major player on the world scene. They probably save years of court cases by filing bankruptcy now rather than waiting until the lawsuits pushed them under.

Some foreign auto companies like Toyota, Honda, and Nissan now produce some American designed and built cars in the United States from the ground up that contain a higher percentage of American parts than many of the so called domestic models.

kanda on August 27, 2009 at 9:09 AM

sort of sums up the great work those democrat stalwarts in the UAW and their Congressional buddies have done for this nation….

we were outthought, outworked, and outsold by the car companies we helped set up…

the main solace I can take is that a portion of the sales went to the Japanese Company American manufacturers and the Capitalists in the equation won.

How’s Ogabe’s butt taste America?

sven10077 on August 27, 2009 at 9:09 AM

They’re like a rookie running back that keeps fumbling the ball and costing the team some games. At some point you’ve got to bench him.
Jeff from WI on August 27, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Your football analogy falls flat.
In the NFL, no one would start a QB straight out of high school, no matter how talented he might seem.
NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 9:02 AM

More like putting the cheerleader in the game rather than an actual player.

CBP on August 27, 2009 at 9:09 AM

Keemo on August 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM

Via appointment, Obama gave NY economic center to that union in order to bleed our nation’s free enterprise system dry while funding the union. Whether any money would be directed towards industry is highly unlikely. If the unions ever cared about the industries in which they labor, they’d have never brought our economy to bankruptcy as indeed they have enforced.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:10 AM

I’m a “free trade” believer, all the way, but in this instance I think that the C4C program should have been limited to American owned auto companies…

You sound like a union hack. Many of the Toyota’s are built in the USA, non-union. What about those jobs?

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:10 AM

How about cash4yourcash4clunkers car?
I heard a story yesterday about a guy who bought an 09 Nissan to sell at profit. He sold a true piece of junk but it ran. With all the rebates and 4500. c4c he got the car for nearly %50. MSRP. Now he”s flipping it for a little profit.

JellyToast on August 27, 2009 at 9:10 AM

Some foreign auto companies like Toyota, Honda, and Nissan now produce some American designed and built cars in the United States from the ground up that contain a higher percentage of American parts than many of the so called domestic models.

kanda on August 27, 2009 at 9:09 AM

+1 my main beef with GM management is in taking the federal money while spiking US plants and building in Russia….

I appreciate the raw humor of Ohio autoworkers on the Barack prayer drive last fall getting their reward but in essence we are subsidizing further erosion of our industrial base.

sven10077 on August 27, 2009 at 9:11 AM

Obama’s program of cash for clunkers being used to purchase any car you want = capitalism & free market.

HotAir’s plan to limit cash for clunkers to purchase of American cars only = artificial government limits on the free market, just like how the Soviet Union forced their residents to buy their own inferior, domestic made cars.

Exit question: why does HotAir commenter community support communism?

e-pirate on August 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM

Sadly, GM and Chrysler only got a stay of execution from the taxpayers. They’ve been sinking because they can’t compete with the price, styling and quality of Toyota and Honda. Also, Hyundai and Kia have taken their share of the US market. Look for the government to continue to subsidize GM and Chrysler with taxpayer money. Now, they really are too big to fail. This was the most expensive vote buying scheme in the history of the country.

orlandocajun on August 27, 2009 at 9:13 AM

The lies and deceptions are only surpassed by their total incompetence. This is a nightmare that you can’t wake up from.

volsense on August 27, 2009 at 9:13 AM

Toyota is made along with Nissan and Hyundai right here in the good old USA, mainly in my neck of the woods right here in the South. These people are my friends and my family. I am happy they got work.

di butler on August 27, 2009 at 9:13 AM

The only way to save American auto makers is to get all of the good cars off the market.

/sarc

MarkTheGreat on August 27, 2009 at 9:05 AM

We take note that Ford did well in sales, whereas Government Motors and its whore Chrysler did not.

Our next new car will be FORD. Absolutely. They came to their senses and fixed their own problems long before democrats autocratically mandated requirements that GM bent over backwards with the Volt to achieve.

Toyota, btw, absolutely refuses to go the all-electric car route, deeming it a dead-end failure.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:14 AM

I would never buy an American made car. Never again.
I had a ford once. Never, ever again.

bridgetown on August 27, 2009 at 9:15 AM

O

bama’s program of cash for clunkers being used to purchase any car you want = capitalism & free market.

Not really. Having the government subsidize car purchases is not the free market.

It’s using the coercive powers of government to confiscate money from Peter, to help Paul buy what he would eventually have to buy on his own, anyway.

It was a stupid, wasteful program from the very start and whether or not it should have been limited to domestic cars, is largely irrelevant.

NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 9:15 AM

Government clunkers, they come standard issue without brains, you need to find one and add it later.

tarpon on August 27, 2009 at 9:15 AM

Toyota workers in Kentucky plant made more than UAW members last year
by John Neff (RSS feed) on Jan 31st 2007 at 5:16PM

Last year was the first time that non-unionized workers at a foreign-owned assembly plant made more than members of the United Auto Workers union make on average in a year. The Detroit Free Press reveals in a very interesting article that Toyota paid out bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000 last year at its largest U.S. plant in Georgetown, KY. Combined with the base pay made by a non-union worker at the plant, that equates to $30/hour or $60,000/year based on a 2,000-hour work year. That is more than the $27/hour or $54,000 a UAW member made on average last year. Union workers, or course, hardly received any profit sharing bonuses last year due to the poor overall performance of the domestic automakers.

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:16 AM

Go Ford.

publiuspen on August 27, 2009 at 9:17 AM

Now he’’s flipping it for a little profit.

JellyToast on August 27, 2009 at 9:10 AM

Only a sucker would buy from your friend since anyone can still get a fantastic deal from almost any dealership right now, especially end of month as sales deadlines approach.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:17 AM

with excellent manufacturing plants – primarily in the southeast – these ‘foreign’ automakers kicked the ‘us’ automaker’s butt. hahah that’s wonderful!

instead of deriding these ‘foreign’ makers like Toyota and Honda, we should instead hold them up as examples of what works in automative manufacturing TODAY (not 50 years ago).

non-union labor chief among those factors.

I’d hope some of the southern congresscritters and senators will capitalize on this success and yet another reason why Obamacare is an epic fail from the start.

gatorboy on August 27, 2009 at 9:17 AM

di butler on August 27, 2009 at 9:13 AM

Agree, we have a Toyota plant here in San Antonio. Bunch of more jobs are moving here from California.

They were union jobs there, but they won’t be here.

My next car will be a Toyota, never thought I would say that.

NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 9:17 AM

The big winners may appear to be Toyota, Honda, and Nissan, but in the end, everyone who participated in the Cash for Clunkers debacle is a loser; Toyota, Honda, and Nissan included.

Most of the so-called “clunkers” out there that were traded in were owned by people who definitely do not qualify as the “evil rich folks” we hear about all the time. And, often, these cars have already been paid off. Now we have people of limited income trading in a “clunker” of a car for which they currently owe nothing for a brand-spanking-new car that undoubtedly comes with a high-interest car payment that they probably couldn’t afford in the first place. Don’t be surprised if, in the next few months, we start hearing about a dramatic increase in car repossessions.

This short-term bump in car sales will result in many people losing their cars, and in the long run, result in car companies losing their shirts as they will not be able to reclaim anything close to the initial sale value of these vehicles. Clunker owners would have been better off keeping their older cars, and dealers would have been better off if their inventory had stayed on the lot to be bought by buyers who could afford them in the first place.

Vic on August 27, 2009 at 9:17 AM

Obama’s program of cash for clunkers being used to purchase any car you want = capitalism & free market.

HotAir’s plan to limit cash for clunkers to purchase of American cars only = artificial government limits on the free market, just like how the Soviet Union forced their residents to buy their own inferior, domestic made cars.

Exit question: why does HotAir commenter community support communism?

e-pirate on August 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM

because you can’t read…

the majority of us opposed the subsidization Cfor C engendered. The entire mechanism is an exercise in Federal overreach champ. We knew that.

At best it was an attempted payoff to the UAW.

Have e a day ****-pirate.

sven10077 on August 27, 2009 at 9:18 AM

They could have given me $45,000 and I would still not buy a Government Motors vehicle.

angryed on August 27, 2009 at 9:19 AM

Exit question: why does HotAir commenter community support communism?

e-pirate on August 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM

they don’t

Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

gatorboy on August 27, 2009 at 9:19 AM

Well, I’m just flabbergasted. Didn’t see that coming.

Who, besides taxpayers of course, were the biggest losers? Anyone in the “underserved” class who can’t afford a new car or didn’t have an eligible trade-in and who will be facing higher used-car prices and a diminished pool of autos from which to pick.

Thanks, Uncle Sugar. Brilliant plan. Brilliant execution.

Can we get a good deal on a trade-in with our politicians?

Yes we can.

hillbillyjim on August 27, 2009 at 9:19 AM

Toyota, btw, absolutely refuses to go the all-electric car route, deeming it a dead-end failure.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:14 AM

Where did you get this rumor? The Detroit Free Press?

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:20 AM

Wade

UAW member made on average last year. Union workers, or course, hardly received any profit sharing bonuses last year due to–John Neff

Whether or not industry does well, union leaders (just political operatives) couldn’t care less about members, only themselves, and any “profit” or bonus will be absorbed at the top of the pyramid.

Socialism IS trickle up poverty.
Michael Savage, prescient

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:21 AM

I’m a “free trade” believer, all the way, but in this instance I think that the C4C program should have been limited to American owned auto companies…

RocketmanBob on August 27, 2009 at 9:06 AM

Here are some statistics as of 2002 on foreign ownership of american industries.

Foreign Ownership of US Domestic Industries

This data comes from IRS (Internal Revenue Service) – Current as of 2002 (latest data available).

Foreign ownership refers to ownership of assets of a particular industry by foreign controlled domestic U.S. Corporations (FDC) 50% or more owned by a foreign entity.

FOREIGN OWNERSHIP OF SELECTED U.S. INDUSTRIES

Industry Percentage Foreign Owned
Sound recording industries 97%
Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage 79%
Motion picture and sound recording industries 75%
Metal ore mining 65%
Motion picture and video industries 64%
Wineries and distilleries 64%
Database, directory, and other publishers 63%
Book publishers 63%
Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product 62%
Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment 57%
Rubber product 53%
Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing 53%
Plastics and rubber products manufacturing 52%
Plastics product 51%
Other insurance related activities 51%
Boiler, tank, and shipping container 50%
Glass and glass product 48%
Coal mining 48%
Sugar and confectionery product 48%
Nonmetallic mineral mining and quarrying 47%
Advertising and related services 41%
Pharmaceutical and medicine 40%
Clay, refractory, and other nonmetallic mineral products 40%
Securities brokerage 38%
Other general purpose machinery 37%
Audio and video equipment mfg and reproducing magnetic and optical media 36%
Support activities for mining 36%
Soap, cleaning compound, and toilet preparation 32%
Chemical manufacturing 30%
Industrial machinery 30%
Securities, commodity contracts, and other financial investments and related activities 30%
Other food 29%
Motor vehicles and parts 29%
Machinery manufacturing 28%
Other electrical equipment and component 28%
Securities and commodity exchanges and other financial investment activities 27%
Architectural, engineering, and related services 26%
Credit card issuing and other consumer credit 26%
Petroleum refineries (including integrated) 25%
Navigational, measuring, electromedical, and control instruments 25%
Petroleum and coal products manufacturing 25%
Transportation equipment manufacturing 25%
Commercial and service industry machinery 25%
Basic chemical 24%
Investment banking and securities dealing 24%
Semiconductor and other electronic component 23%
Paint, coating, and adhesive. 22%
Printing and related support activities 21%
Chemical product and preparation 20%
Iron, steel mills, and steel products 20%
Agriculture, construction, and mining machinery 20%
Publishing industries 20%
Medical equipment and supplies 20%

FOREIGN OWNERSHIP OF MAJOR U.S. INDUSTRIES
Industry Percentage Foreign Owned
Mining 27%
Information 24%
Manufacturing 20%
Professional, scientific, and technical services 20%
Finance and insurance

kanda on August 27, 2009 at 9:22 AM

Toyota, btw, absolutely refuses to go the all-electric car route, deeming it a dead-end failure.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:14 AM

Where did you get this rumor? The Detroit Free Press?

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:20 AM

Evening news

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:22 AM

Only a sucker would buy from your friend since anyone can still get a fantastic deal from almost any dealership right now, especially end of month as sales deadlines approach.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:17 AM

Not a friend,, just a story I heard. But, the world is full of suckers. 58,000,000 voted for Obama. I think he’d have a good chance of selling a two week old/used Nissan for a little profit.

JellyToast on August 27, 2009 at 9:22 AM

angryed on August 27, 2009 at 9:19 AM

But, but it comes with your very own bureaucrat in the back seat!

He tells you to buckle your seat belt, to drive the speed limit, to not drink and drive, to keep your tires properly inflated, to not use your car for unnecessary trips, to always wear condoms, to eat your fruits and vegetables, to not drink soda, to pay your taxes on time, etc.

This option should be wildly popular and will be available in all Government Motors cars.

NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 9:22 AM

Finance and insurance 11%

kanda on August 27, 2009 at 9:22 AM

Exit question: why does HotAir commenter community support communism?
e-pirate on August 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM

You may have missed the almost complete dismissal of the CforC scam on these very pages from HA people who knew exactly what a joke it would be.

You really need to try harder.

Bishop on August 27, 2009 at 9:22 AM

RocketmanBob on August 27, 2009 at 9:06 AM

I have no sympathy. When I’m car shopping, I am looking for a quality-made vehicle that gets good gas mileage and that I can drive until it falls apart 250,000 miles from now, with little time in the shop in between. Consequently I have in my garage a 10-year-old Honda Accord and a new Toyota Highlander. Barry could offer to buy me a GovernmentMotors car outright and I would still turn him down, because his product can’t compete with the Japanese product. If the Japanese want to take my dollars home to Tokyo and buy gold-plated tatami mats with it, they can be my guest; they earned it. They produce a quality vehicle, provide excellent customer service, compensate their (non-union) employees well, and run their companies prudently and sensibly. They will get my business every single time.

NoLeftTurn on August 27, 2009 at 9:23 AM

Wade, google search provides plenty of evidence to the contrary.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:23 AM

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:21 AM

Please do not quote me incorrectly. Man up and post your own edits.

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:25 AM

Wade, google search provides plenty of evidence to the contrary.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:23 AM

Show facts not Googles to backup your statement.

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:26 AM

Why so… Maoist?

LibTired on August 27, 2009 at 9:27 AM

The “smartest” administration in history!

*puke*

javamartini on August 27, 2009 at 9:28 AM

Wade, google search provides plenty of evidence to the contrary.
maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:23 AM

Show facts not Googles to backup your statement.

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:26 AM

If fact, don’t bother seeing you can not quote properly.

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:30 AM

Can we trade in BO on C4C?

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:30 AM

Wade,

The Toyota determination vs. all-electric car production as too expensive was featured at an auto website the other night.

Online search pulls up this.
Toyota won’t build electric cars for China (coal-electric).

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:31 AM

If fact, don’t bother seeing you can not quote properly.

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:30 AM

Coming from you, I couldn’t care less.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:32 AM

Kuudos to Americans for not buying cars from the government owned auto manufacturers.

WashJeff on August 27, 2009 at 9:33 AM

To the victors go the spoils. The irony of all of this is that the foreign makers and in particular the likes of Toyo, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, etc., are more possessive of the “American” spirit than 2/3′s of the “Big 3.” They all seem to have business models built upon surviving the hard times without help as opposed to 2/3′s of the “Big 3″ whose biz models are based upon the good times never ending. Also, I love the non-union route they’ve taken to producing here in the U.S……..and the differences in sales, production, profits between they and the 2/3s of the Big 3 are starkly clear.

I will not be buying a GM or Chrysler product anytime soon.

JoeinTX on August 27, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Vic:

I think you are wrong on this. I suspect most of the clunkers traded under this program came from empty nesters and they were merely taking an opportuntiy to get rid of what is now a second or third car and replace it with a smaller vehicle more suited to their current needs. I also suspect that most of the people taking advantage of the program were in the market for a new car anyway. C4C was like winning a raffle prize. There are very few people who went out and bought a new car because of the program and all we have done is robbed next quarter’s sales. I don’t expect that there will be an increase in repos over this program.

jerryofva on August 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM

All of these are American models. Now, what happens to the companies that make parts for these cars? Under normal circumstances, people would replace parts as they fail while keeping the cars on the road. Suddenly, the after-market parts industry has 700,000 fewer cars for maintenance. And since Americans mainly traded American cars for foreign vehicles, that parts market will not bounce back for years.

Which will naturally make one want to buy American.

Screw it. I’m buying a Lotus Esprit next chance i get.

MadisonConservative on August 27, 2009 at 9:38 AM

The success of the Cash for Clunkers program now has Tex Dot studying the idea of revising the gas tax here in the Republic of Texas. Tex Dot is now considering adopting taxing the amount of mileage citizens travel rather than the gas tax. We already have toll roads!

How disgusting is this. Government has been pushing for consumers / tax payers to purchase fuel efficient cars to reduce their environmental impact and to reduce our dependance on foriegn oil. When tax payers comply with the government, the government then turns on the tax payers by imposing new taxes. We need to stop this crap! Drill here, Drill NOW!

AASLT on August 27, 2009 at 9:38 AM

weak

moonbatkiller on August 27, 2009 at 9:41 AM

If Toyota deems it profitable to build an all-electric vehicle, they’ll build it. I’m sure I read not long ago where they were pursuing an EV version of the RAV4, but it was only going to be available in Japan initially. Unlike the American companies, however, they are also (like Honda) experimenting with CNG (gee, maybe we’ll need that pipeline from Alaska someday after all?) and (like BMW) hydrogen fuel cell technology. In other words, they don’t have all of their eggs in one basket.

Personally, if I were going to buy an all-electric car, it wouldn’t be that hideous Volt; it would be a sweet Tesla.

NoLeftTurn on August 27, 2009 at 9:43 AM

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:21 AM

Please do not quote me incorrectly. Man up and post your own edits.

Wade on August 27, 2009 at 9:25 AM

9:21 comment was to “Wade”, and the quote was noted by Jeff Neff as per your own entry.

As per manning up, you just got wee weed. YOU misunderstood, for whatever reason. Get over taking offense that somehow you made a mistaken judgment. I wrote that google provides a lot of information to the contrary because a google search for Toyota electric car will pull up plenty of information regarding their work in the field. How you got your panties twisted over that, only you can say. But, as mentioned, that doesn’t matter to me. You had no call for going on the war path, Wade.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:43 AM

Jeff Neff whoever

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:43 AM

President Unintended Economic Consequences.

Loxodonta on August 27, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Which will naturally make one want to buy American.

Screw it. I’m buying a Lotus Esprit next chance i get.

MadisonConservative on August 27, 2009 at 9:38 AM

Indeed….one nice side effect of this could be *wait for it* a rebirth of true machinists who can fabricate parts for you.
the thing is that the fact that the more efficient scavenger model of parts regeneration has been hamstrung to do so means the market was artificially trumped again.

The success of the Cash for Clunkers program now has Tex Dot studying the idea of revising the gas tax here in the Republic of Texas. Tex Dot is now considering adopting taxing the amount of mileage citizens travel rather than the gas tax. We already have toll roads!

How disgusting is this. Government has been pushing for consumers / tax payers to purchase fuel efficient cars to reduce their environmental impact and to reduce our dependance on foriegn oil. When tax payers comply with the government, the government then turns on the tax payers by imposing new taxes. We need to stop this crap! Drill here, Drill NOW!

AASLT on August 27, 2009 at 9:38 AM

The tax and spend beast is getting hungry…

Personally I suspect that you’ll see a lot of realignment of fee structure and funding theory over the next four years and we’ll either have a peaceful revolt or turn into UK lite….

sven10077 on August 27, 2009 at 9:44 AM

One would think this would demonstrate the folly of Card Check considering, as has been noted, that the three winners are open shop in right-to-work states (Ohio-made Accords excepted).

SoFlaCon on August 27, 2009 at 9:44 AM

But the media are saying it was a success!

SouthernGent on August 27, 2009 at 9:45 AM

yada yada yada Jeff John Neff
for the record keeper

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM

This is going to hurt the poor for years to come… If you part-out one of these “clunkers”, the interior of most early 90′s cars is worth $1,500 alone, never mind high-value exterior sheetmetal, engine and suspension parts, all of which normal people use to keep their older cars on the road. Every one of these 700,000 “clunkers” will effect the repair costs of a dozen older car owners over the next 10 years.

phreshone on August 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM

One would think this would demonstrate the folly of Card Check considering, as has been noted, that the three winners are open shop in right-to-work states (Ohio-made Accords excepted).

SoFlaCon on August 27, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Ohio was an enigma….the right to work shops existing happily next to the UAW dinosaurs….

as long as credit was cheap the UAW shops could artifically compete….

now that the market tightened on free money a bit we saw what happened…

now you know why they have kept borrowing ridiculously cheap for so long.

sven10077 on August 27, 2009 at 9:47 AM

Liberals must be lousy chess players. They clearly can’t see beyond their opening move.

BuckeyeSam on August 27, 2009 at 9:47 AM

President Unintended Economic Consequences.

Loxodonta on August 27, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Scrabble winner

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:48 AM

This is going to hurt the poor for years to come… If you part-out one of these “clunkers”, the interior of most early 90’s cars is worth $1,500 alone, never mind high-value exterior sheetmetal, engine and suspension parts, all of which normal people use to keep their older cars on the road. Every one of these 700,000 “clunkers” will effect the repair costs of a dozen older car owners over the next 10 years.

phreshone on August 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM

The big winner from this will likley be the TaTa as the poor see repair out of their reach….

Irony thy name is Barry

sven10077 on August 27, 2009 at 9:48 AM

After all the dust has settled, and all the smoke and mirrors have been placed to the side, I think it is safe to assume that history will look upon the Cash For Clunkers program as being the dumbest, stupidest, most wasteful example of government bureaucracy gone wild ever seen in modern times.

pilamaye on August 27, 2009 at 9:48 AM

Again, NO LEGISLATOR ATTEMPTED to specify that the program apply only to domestics…

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Probably because no legislators–even these ones–are quite stupid enough to think any administration–even this one–is going to spark an international trade war over what amounts to nothing more than a costly, taxpayer-funded PR trick.

Obviously, the American car industry (with the exception of Ford, due primarily to the F-series pick-ups which have genuine commercial utility and few if any foreign peers) is forever dead as a profitable enterprise. No PR trick is ever going to change that. The only question is if the Democrats will succeed in keeping GM and Chrysler on indefinite life support, as nationalized entities, for the purpose of laundering taxpayer dollars into their campaign chests via the UAW.

Blacklake on August 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Used car dealers can’t be happy either.

MarkTheGreat on August 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Liberals must be lousy chess players. They clearly can’t see beyond their opening move.

BuckeyeSam on August 27, 2009 at 9:47 AM

Liberals play checkers.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Exit question: why does HotAir commenter community support communism?

e-pirate on August 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM

Unfortunately many people who call themselves conservatives, are only opposed to govt spending, when they themselves don’t benefit from it.

MarkTheGreat on August 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM

How do you get to the point that you rationalize the idea of “creating wealth” by means of “Destroying Wealth” first?

jp on August 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM

Liberals must be lousy chess players. They clearly can’t
see beyond their opening move.

BuckeyeSam on August 27, 2009 at 9:47 AM

Liberals play checkers.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Liberals have temper tantrums and wipe the checkers off the board…

phreshone on August 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM

I have friends who work for Toyota and Toyota suppliers (like I once did) so I’m not too terribly heartbroken. Maybe the “big 3″ (aka UAW) can learn from the foreign makers? Nah, probably not…

Keef Overbite on August 27, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Used car dealers can’t be happy either.

MarkTheGreat on August 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM

don’t know, it inflates the prices of the used cars they currently have for sale.

jp on August 27, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Liberals play checkers.

maverick muse on August 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM

more like “kick the can”…

even checkers is beyind their grasp anyone with 1/2 a brain could see what was gonna happen on this in two moves let alone six.

sven10077 on August 27, 2009 at 9:53 AM

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