AIP column: Admission of Failure
posted at 12:55 pm on August 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Why did the Obama administration delay releasing the budget reconciliation numbers for a month, then try to sneak them into a Friday afternoon document dump in the middle of Barack Obama’s vacation? They knew that the addition of more than $2,000,000,000,000 (trillion!) to their deficit projections was more than an admission of poor forecasting. It also meant acknowledging that Porkulus failed, as I explain in my new American Issues Project column:
Back in February, when the White House and OMB first claimed that they had knocked two trillion dollars off of the projections thanks to the superpowers of their economic stimulus package, the CBO sounded quite pessimistic. OMB director Peter Orszag at the time replied on the OMB blog that the CBO didn’t give enough consideration to the power of Porkulus:
During last Thursday’s briefing on the President’s FY 2010 Budget, CEA Chair Christina Romer was asked many questions about the economic forecast underlying the Budget – and since then some news reports have highlighted differences between the Administration’s forecast and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) forecast.
The problem with this comparison is that our forecast includes the effects of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which has now been signed into law. The CBO forecast, by contrast, was published in January and did not take into account the effects of the Recovery Act.
To put the forecasts on an “apples-to-apples” basis, one can take the CBO forecast and add in the effects from CBO’s macroeconomic analysis of the Recovery Act—which included both a “high” and “low” estimate for the projected effect of the act. …
The results show that the Administration’s GDP forecast is entirely consistent with CBO’s forecast (and indeed right in the middle of CBO’s “high” and “low” estimates) once the effects of the Recovery Act are included.
This is an important point, and one which the media seems largely to have missed. The CBO estimate turns out to have been quite accurate, perhaps even a bit optimistic, but at least now almost entirely in consonance with current OMB projections. If that’s the case, then the data shows that the economic stimulus has had no impact on the nation’s economy, despite its hefty $787 billion price tag.
Consider: the OMB had the same economic data as the CBO from which to build baseline projections of economic activity. Orszag in his blog post says that the OMB reached the same conclusions as the CBO without including their estimates of stimulus reaction. The “apples to oranges” that Orszag references is that OMB included those promised effects when calculating deficits for the future decade, not – as he claimed later – that the recession was deeper before OMB and CEA concocted those projections. In fact, estimates of first-quarter GDP got revised upward later this year, and the Obama administration hailed the Q2 result of -1% GDP growth as an “improvement” in the economy, a small demonstration of economic illiteracy.
This dovetails with Keith Hennessey’s estimation of net job losses in 2010 of 2.3 million, or nearly 200,000 a month. The failure of Porkulus will become even more obvious then, as the stimulus package ramps up spending without creating jobs. However, the admission that the CBO had been right all along makes it clear enough that the stimulus package has had no effect at all on the American economy, and we can chew on that while we contemplate how to pay its $787 billion tab.
Be sure to read it all. While you’re at AIP, check out the other columns and blogs, too. John Hanlon looks at the Kennedy campaign for health-care reform. Lorie Bryd contemplates the suddenly-relevant term “bazillions”. Cassy Fiano has issues with Social Security. (Already? She looks so young!) Kim Priestap takes a look at the admission of the exploding deficit from a perspective of trust.










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Communist!
Spenol on August 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM
How can representative government work, when the supposedly neutral press, refuses to hold one party accountable for their failures, while fabricating failures to use as a club to beat the other party?
Answer – it can’t. The reason we’re in this mess, is entirely due the media being entirely beholden to the absolutely worthless, corrupt and incompetent Democrat Party.
NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Look who profited. Did Congress shaft this foolish newbie in order to pass the Holiday list for the hacks back home?
IlikedAUH2O on August 27, 2009 at 12:59 PM
no comments cause…no suprise…in my best gomer pile voice
jerrytbg on August 27, 2009 at 12:59 PM
So if Porkulus did indeed turn out to be the boondoggle bust-o-rama that AIP is reporting, then what makes B.O. and his merry band of Democrat elitists think for even a fraction of a nanosecond that Obamacare/Kennedycare/CareFromHell isn’t going to end up being an even greater unnatural catastrophe?
pilamaye on August 27, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Everything is going as planned. Bankrupt the country, declare marshall law, and voila`….Obama will be our ruler for life. I just hope, when he demands his feet be washed with womens hair, he doesn’t have a foot fungus.
capejasmine on August 27, 2009 at 1:00 PM
I blame the MSM…
d1carter on August 27, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Capejasmine
The 60 Czars, Acorn, his planned domestic force, breaking laws to dominate large corporations and the supine nature of the military around him…you are not as weird as some people may think.
IlikedAUH2O on August 27, 2009 at 1:03 PM
It’s not the outcome, it’s the good intentionsinvolved with such things as the Porkulus or Death Care.
The emotional fulfillment of oh well, at least we triedalways seems to justify these people’s failures. Remember, these are the type of people that don’t like to keep score at little league games because somebody’s feelings might get hurt. They look at real life the same way.
JoeinTX on August 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM
THEY! DON’T! CARE!
rollthedice on August 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Enjoy it, Barry. Now no one trusts your judgment anymore.
John the Libertarian on August 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Let’s see…members of The Apollo Alliance,a bunch of Anti-Capitalist Radicals, write a Pork-Laden bill and it does not stimulate the American Economy. What a cotton-pickin’ surprise!
kingsjester on August 27, 2009 at 1:05 PM
At Soros’ behest, he is crashing the dollar to bring on a one world currency. Globalization = egalitarianism. America can’t dominate the world anymore once we have a single currency.
JAM on August 27, 2009 at 1:06 PM
I love the smell of deperation in the morning!
upinak on August 27, 2009 at 1:06 PM
‘the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money’
can’t wait for that day to happen….
PatriotRider on August 27, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Overwhelm the system.
Overwhelm our minds.
I can’t keep up anymore.
For the first time in my adult life, I’m going to start drinking.
Knucklehead on August 27, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I want my money back.My family and our descendants want our money back.
Fixed it for myself.
UltimateBob on August 27, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Per household the Federal Government is spending $30,000 this year of your money on your behalf. Over the next 10 years the Federal Government will spend $400,000 of your money.
Now can we have the Change and get Government serving the People. I do not like slavery!
Sanmon on August 27, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Should it come to that it would be a very very short “term”.
Guardian on August 27, 2009 at 1:12 PM
Give that man a cigar.
I’ve been screaming that to everyone who will listen for over thitry years now. The MSM is enemy numero uno. We the people should be protesting outside of their corporate offices.
Chop off the head of the snake ……. you khow the rest.
fogw on August 27, 2009 at 1:13 PM
As Charles Krauthammer put it if Mr Barry Sotero left the room we could have a serious talk about the ******* economy!
tim c on August 27, 2009 at 1:13 PM
We can’t just sit by and watch the purposeful destruction of the American Economy….Come to DC on 9/12. Keep up the pressure.
Christian Conservative on August 27, 2009 at 1:14 PM
News flash: Porkulus worked perfectly. Porkulus did exactly what they intended it to do.
Daggett on August 27, 2009 at 1:15 PM
The media just knows which side its bread is buttered.
When the revolution comes, the media will get all its funding from the state. Those who didn’t play ball during this period will get eliminated.
Daggett on August 27, 2009 at 1:17 PM
If you are surprised-shame on you.
rjoco1 on August 27, 2009 at 1:17 PM
The question is how will history judge the press for their complicity in this whole mess?
Chainsaw56 on August 27, 2009 at 1:17 PM
What is it about “nuance” that you don’t understand?
SlaveDog on August 27, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Yeah, agree. But how can O siphon enough of the money to his core constituency groups so that his poll numbers remain high enough. He has to issue some serious walking-around money if he’s gonna make this work imo.
JiangxiDad on August 27, 2009 at 1:20 PM
The only reason to watch the propagandists of the SCM is to note who their advertisers are and who to boycott.
Chainsaw56 on August 27, 2009 at 1:20 PM
fogw on August 27, 2009 at 1:13 PM
I’ve wavered back and forth over whether it’s the people who elect these idiot Democrats, the idiot Democrats themselves or the media that obscures the crimes and incompetence of the Democrats in lying to the people.
And the answer is, the playing field is so tilted on the Democrats side, that they have free reign.
Most Americans have neither the time nor the intelligence to determine the depth of depravity that riddles the Democrat Party. Corruption and incompetence are the norm for politicians in that party. If you cast a vote for a Democrat, you are voting for corruption and incompetence, it’s that simple.
But the role of the press is to inform the people. Democrats aren’t going to investigate themselves, as we can see.
And the only party that would have the power to check Democrat crimes, is daily undermined and undercut by our media.
It’s criminal. Journalism is dead in this country and what remains is a zombie like devotion to “progressive” causes.
NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 1:20 PM
They don’t care. Well, actually that’s nottrue, they do care — they care if their plan to destroy America is successful or not. So from that standpoint the program has been a huge success.
Obama and his administration are Marxists and most of the Democrats in Congress are Socialists.
johnsteele on August 27, 2009 at 1:21 PM
History is written by the winners and they intend to win.
Republican politicians play to not be called “mean-spirited”.
NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 1:22 PM
You forgot who writes the history books.
jhffmn on August 27, 2009 at 1:23 PM
I will be there with bells on (figuratively speaking).
I might put a small “Hot Air” logo on my sign somewhere. if you see it, stop by and introduce yourself!
On the other hand, maybe I shouldn’t. I don’t want to incriminate Ed, Allah, or Michelle. Pelosi might think that they astroturfed the entire protest.
Yeah, my pockets are just stuffed full of cash that I get from right-wing websites for spending my weekends out protesting.
UltimateBob on August 27, 2009 at 1:23 PM
Yup!
It’s becoming clearer everyday – Ogabe and his thugs are deliberately trying to destroy our economy in order to declare a disaster and install themselves as dictators. (For the children of course… )
Ogabe on August 27, 2009 at 1:23 PM
I question the timing of this story about the timing.
Hening on August 27, 2009 at 1:24 PM
This is what I don’t get. Let’s say Obama is doing this all on purpose, as Rush, Victor Davis Hanson, and many on here have speculated. How exactly does he think this will end? If his endgame is massive redistribution of wealth, what is his plan when the economy craters and we end up in a major depression with 20+% unemployment?
Does he think the American people will happily bend over and grab their ankles? Does he think they’re remain silent? You would think images from the tea parties and townhalls have penetrated whatever bubble he’s insulated himself in.
Doughboy on August 27, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Obama only has to contribute a piece of the pie. Remember you have Soro’s money and all the leftnut organizations raising money for the same cause. These people are well funded. Could be some more taxpayer money will put them over the top.
HoustonRight on August 27, 2009 at 1:25 PM
Orszag’s rug is a bigger fail than Porkulus, IMO.
Kid from Brooklyn on August 27, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Here’s the problem, $787 billion is not a lot of money considering the extent of the problem. From a Keynesian POV, a la Krugman, stimulating our way out of a deflationary depression requires more than a one time stimulus that equals approx. $2,400/citizen. Our debt levels are much higher than that and the problem is our indebtedness.
Where the Obama administration went wrong, and frankly so few people really understand what is happening, is assuming that this is a run of the mill demand led recession which will correct itself after a year and a half. (Otherwise they might have come up with a stimulus that actually put money into the economy in year one.) Not this time. We are experiencing deflation the same way we did in the 1930s, 1890s, and 1830s. This will keep growth low and unemployment high for a decade.
Bill C on August 27, 2009 at 1:29 PM
He thinks it will end however Assrod, Soros and Emmanuel tell him it’s going to end.
Obama doesn’t wipe his butt without checking first with the unholy trinity.
NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 1:29 PM
My son won’t be born for another month and he’s already broke. Thanks for nothing, Obama.
search4truth on August 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM
P.S. Inflation or hyperinflation is a long, long way off. Watch the ten year treasury, it will stay under 4% signaling no inflationary pressure.
Bill C on August 27, 2009 at 1:32 PM
No, Daggie. They will all be eliminated in favor of the gladdest gladhanding commies you have ever known. These puny iggos and idealists have no idea what’s in store for them when they get where they’re going. It won’t be a job and it certainly won’t be a voice.
LibTired on August 27, 2009 at 1:32 PM
@1 not communism. Facism. Both are bad so let’s not quibble about how we are screwed because we know we are. Lemmings over a cliff.
Haunches on August 27, 2009 at 1:33 PM
More accurately, it is a lack of demand recession caused by consumers carrying to high of debt levels to be able to take on any more debt. With all of the liquidity that has been injected into the various markets, inflation has remained benign to this point because there is little to no velocity of that money.
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 1:34 PM
What would you do for a loaf of bread…Got any kids?
It’s control…pure and simple…
jerrytbg on August 27, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Failure? Never, we still can still print the money…
right2bright on August 27, 2009 at 1:35 PM
The big fly in the ointment is that the buyers of Treasury debt start demanding higher rates to induce them to buy.
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 1:35 PM
It’s all of them ND.
The people who elect them bow at the alter of the alphabet networks and take their word as gospel. IOW, they are incapable of thinking on their own.
The idiot Democrats know exactly what they are doing.
The media gives cover to the Democrats, hiding what they are doing by changing the subject and jumping on the Bush’s Fault bandwagon.
But the MSM is the bedrock of their misdeeds and corruption. Without them everything else would crumble.
fogw on August 27, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Does he think the American people will happily bend over and grab their ankles?
He owns your car and your health care. He’ll own your gas and your company. You may not have a choice other than to grab you ankles and yell “Yes we can” as loud as you can.
Haunches on August 27, 2009 at 1:37 PM
“We suck but I’m almost black!
Give us more money!”
TexasJew on August 27, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Failed? What was the aim of Porkulus, the one advertised by the politicians as an economic stimulus, or the reason why the rest of us called it Porkulus? Did it not fulfill its mandate of distributing large amounts of money for pork?
I would submit that since the bill was never about the economy, it didn’t fail in that regard, even if the government said it has. The government also claimed it was an economic stimulus. Its purpose was to not only pay back all those who forked out lots of cash for Democratic campaigns, but to provide cash for all the backed up pork they’ve been saving up all these years.
Weebork on August 27, 2009 at 1:38 PM
This really shouldnt surprise anyone. Our govt. is officially in the pocket of Soros et al. Once we crash the dollar and go to a new currency standard we will be done. We can only hope is that our new masters have an unending need to buy the “Snuggie”.
Koa on August 27, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Exactly.
Stimulus was written by the czars for the czars. Its purpose is to fund leftist programs from grade school community organizing coordinators to DOJ terror deniers.
I have never been alarmist, but this man in the WH is dangerous.
Republicans, nothing short of repeal of the stimulus will do. I don’t want the money spent more wisely, I want government out of our lives! If you want me to rejoin your party, you can disband DO Education and Energy as well.
PattyJ on August 27, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Or break out into Moon River. :)
HoustonRight on August 27, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Amen!
Christian Conservative on August 27, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Keep a lookout for Ochimpy with a box of matches headed toward the Reichstag.
csdeven on August 27, 2009 at 1:40 PM
HoustonRight on August 27, 2009 at 1:39 PM
LOL. Thank you, Fletch.
kingsjester on August 27, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Did he really say that?
Because for once, he’s being honest.
So he probably didn’t say that.
NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 1:42 PM
You forgot who writes the history books.
jhffmn on August 27, 2009 at 1:23 PM
How about considering who will be reading the history books. And how much nonsense that will see and read in their pop culture.
IlikedAUH2O on August 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM
“Snuggie”.
The snuggie will be mandatory in order to save winter fuel costs. Everyone will have to wear it everywhere. That is why in the future, as shown in Star Wars, that the best people wear snuggies. They will be required all year long because the Messiah stopped global warming with cap and trade. Only wind farm operators will be exempt because of the number of windmill/snuggie accidents overburdening Chappaquiddicare.
Haunches on August 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Knew I could’t sneak anything past you.
HoustonRight on August 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Look at the political views of young people today. The worst are the college kids.
IlikedAUH2O on August 27, 2009 at 1:44 PM
The whole point of the quick and rushed effort for TARP, the stimulus package and the “health-care” reform bill was to keep ANYONE from reading them until they were passed! The arrogance, hubris, effrontery and disingenuousness of this Obama administration is beyond anything ever experienced in this country’s history! In other words, we were deliberately lied to and taken for absolute fools and idiots by the man elected President of the United States! Unfortunately for a lot of us, he was right that so many could be fooled into voting for him. We have to vote the Democrats out while we still have a country left!
JonR on August 27, 2009 at 1:45 PM
HoustonRight on August 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM
My friends won’t play Trivial Pursuit with me anymore. Sigh. But, if I’d had been real smart, I wouldn’t have majored in Radio, TV, and Film all those years ago. I would have majored in something profitable.
kingsjester on August 27, 2009 at 1:46 PM
My point exactly. If we get to the point where a loaf of bread becomes a luxury item, things are going to get very ugly. I can’t imagine Obama thinks he can maintain control over that.
Doughboy on August 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM
NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Actually, accordijng to kausfiles he’s going to throw Orzsag under the bus on Tuesday, so then it’ll be:
“HE sucks, but I’m almost black!
Give us more money!”
TexasJew on August 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Nope, it’s working just as planned.
marklmail on August 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM
This is so much money, it becomes surreal.
Terrye on August 27, 2009 at 1:49 PM
TexasJew on August 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Yet another compelling argument.
This guy is really getting through to me.
NoDonkey on August 27, 2009 at 1:51 PM
I agree Bill. Deflation first then strong inflation? Perhaps 3-10 years out, unless we unwind first? That is my read.
riverrat10k on August 27, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Would you agree we’re in uncharted territory ?
No one knows how rapidly those #’s could change …
A week…two maybe…not now but sometime in the near future…
It could happen in days…that’s not me saying it…but someone very close to me…
Who just happens to be in the loop…overseeing one of the trenches…
jerrytbg on August 27, 2009 at 1:56 PM
But as we have seen, the Fed has been stabilizing the rate by participating in the auctions. If you could educate me a little about what effect this has, I would appreciate it. My macro-econ is not graduate level.
riverrat10k on August 27, 2009 at 1:56 PM
that’s the scarey part…agreed.
jerrytbg on August 27, 2009 at 1:58 PM
AmeriCorp? Purple shirts to keep surfs in line.
Christian Conservative on August 27, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Unfortunately, the chance of Americans getting the money from the stimulus back is that of a snowball in July.
kingsjester on August 27, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Essentially, the Fed is buying to keep demand up, and acting as a buyer of last resort. Part of this strategy involves the Fed buying new issues so the Treasury can retire outstanding higher coupon rate paper. The question becomes how long the Fed can maintain its position as a buyer.
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Trust—hard to get, easy to lose, impossible to get back once its gone.
own it champ.
ted c on August 27, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Rep. James Clyburn (CPUSA-SC) in September 2006
Ah, the good ol’ days…
mankai on August 27, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Not long enough.
Out of curiosity, how unacceptable would it be for me to work for the Fed or the IRS? They pay well, but do I want to burn in hell forever because I worked for the government?
John_Locke on August 27, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Which just shows even more how true the maxim is, that there are only two places one can be within Obama’s world: under the rug or under the bus.
RD on August 27, 2009 at 2:12 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.4452bed82adf3124e5884678e236d7fb.361&show_article=1
Yup. Change we can believe in. Nice.
mizflame98 on August 27, 2009 at 2:14 PM
Only you can answer that question.
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Thanks ICBM, that helps some. So, am I right that the REAL (market) rate of the 10-yr is unknown (as a function of volume offered). That is to say, we are pumping out huge dollars in treasuries to fund our stimulus, etc, etc, and to meet this supply, the Fed has become a buyer, when they weren’t before, and therefore are artificially holding down the 10year bond, just as they have held down the Fed funds rate?
Looks to me like more easy credit and another “bubble” created by the folks who caused the last couple.
riverrat10k on August 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Think about the small fraction of the stimulus that has been spent. Compare that to the large amount financed. The total cost of a dollar of stimulus financed this year has to approach 40-50% depending upon your methodology of calculation.
Then think about how the stimulus is being wasted. For instance, they are putting orange stimulus signs touting “putting America back to work” along the roads in NC.
The waste per dollar spent is enormous.
Add it all up and the stimulus package has to cause economic contraction not growth. Even back in the 90′s govt. only got 67 cents on the dollar compared to the private sector for a dollar spent. With the runaway meltdown govt. is currently causing the number have to be drastically worse.
trollkiller on August 27, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Thinking the only acceptable solution is to gain access to the books, audit the Fed and make the Paulnuts very happy.
John_Locke on August 27, 2009 at 2:18 PM
The bottom line is that, “it does not matter how they disguise it, everything Hussein does is costing our generation and our childrens generation Trillions $$$$$”
Conceal $2 Trillion and take $30k Date Nights! Did you really vote Hussein in for this? I wonder how much this 10 day vacation will cost our kids b/c thats what we are spending now! Wanna try for our grand kids?
BigMike252 on August 27, 2009 at 2:19 PM
My personal view is that yes, the Fed action as a buyer is artificially holding down Treasury rates on bonds and notes.
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 2:19 PM
While I agree that at some point the Fed should be audited, I fear that the consequences could be huge at this point. I personally do not advocate an audit at this moment.
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Which can only last so long, at some point the jig is up and our inflation rates skyrocket. What do you think 10+ trillion in debt is going to do with inflation?
John_Locke on August 27, 2009 at 2:22 PM
See what PattyJ said. The bills are being outsourced to the Czars and groups like Apollo, ACORN, SEIU, etc. Those groups make sure they get a big cut of the federal funds. All Obama has to do is sign on the dotted line.
Daggett on August 27, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Best part about that? Candidate Obama moaned and complained about the “unitary executive” theory that the Bush Administration was doing. This Executive branch is horrifying.
John_Locke on August 27, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Already happening. Did you see the deal Barry made with the Chinese to keep funding his deficit projections?
Phil-351 on August 27, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Maybe so, but, as one who can speak from having been IN the media and seen it all firsthand, I can tell you that corrupt media sucks up TODAY to whomever they think will provide them with money TOMORROW. That’s why they’re slobbering all over Obama. They believe [correctly or not] that Obama will be responsible for their paychecks in the future.
Daggett on August 27, 2009 at 2:26 PM
Only up. If the Chinese drastically cut back on Treasury purchases, hold on.
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 2:26 PM
That is the point, isn’t now? This is the Cloward-Piven strategy to “overwhelm the system”. Our President is being advised by radicals and as Glenn Beck so eloquently put it, “Why?”
lovedinthekeys on August 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM
The Chinese have become Atlas, only they won’t put up with this crap, after a certain point, the Chinese are going to drop the weight of the world for their own interests.
John_Locke on August 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM
At some point the Chinese will have to stop artificially lowering their currency, and when they do they’re not going to be as liquid, and why buy T bonds as resources are scarce?
John_Locke on August 27, 2009 at 2:30 PM
The Chinese reduced their Treasury in June. They do have some internal problems that they need cash for.
ICBM on August 27, 2009 at 2:32 PM
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