Paul Krugman 2007: ObamaCare can “evolve” into single-payer
posted at 2:15 pm on August 26, 2009 by Allahpundit
Another dynamite find by Verum Serum, on an endless mission to expose liberal doublespeak about what the public option would mean in practice. First clip is from two years ago, the second clip — declaring the arguments against the public option to be “sheer nonsense” — from last weekend. My only quibble with VS is that they seem to think there’s some dissembling here by Krugman. But there’s no contradiction: He’d clearly love to see ObamaCare metastasize into socialized medicine, ergo any arguments against that happening are nonsense. Here he is in the Times just a few days ago:
The debate over the public option has, as I said, been depressing in its inanity. Opponents of the option — not just Republicans, but Democrats like Senator Kent Conrad and Senator Ben Nelson — have offered no coherent arguments against it. Mr. Nelson has warned ominously that if the option were available, Americans would choose it over private insurance — which he treats as a self-evidently bad thing, rather than as what should happen if the government plan was, in fact, better than what private insurers offer.
Evidently, for Krugman, his own argument circa 2007 that it might lead inexorably to a government takeover of health insurance isn’t an argument “against” the public option. Nor, I guess, is the fact that ObamaCare might land us another trillion or two deeper in the hole. Remember, this is the guy who basically shrugged at the news yesterday that the 10-year deficit projection would be 30 percent higher than thought. Exit question via Ace: “Will Krugman ever address this major controversy in which he appears to occupy a central and dispositive role?”
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Didn’t this guy star in the movie: Escape from Ewok Village
phreshone on August 26, 2009 at 2:16 PM
It’s really not a Trojan Horse. It is the goal of the progressives.
I’m amazed, but they honestly do think that Sicko was some kind of brilliant political analysis. Frankly, I’m amazed because even Moore wouldn’t have said that, at least at one point.
He’s all about raising conscience, etc., via his films. Maybe it’s now gone to his head, but I’ve heard him speak frankly on this.
So, if the far-left feels this, then I suppose the national debate has to shift to just that.
Single payer.
And the moderates will be like spectators at a tennis match. We’ll just watch the ball go back and forth.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Krugman suffers from that typical Leftist Progressive disease:
Convenient Memory Syndrome.
manofaiki on August 26, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Yep. Ace chased him out.
lorien1973 on August 26, 2009 at 2:20 PM
We’re talking about libs here; what they say morphs from moment to moment in a real-time example of “end justifies the means.”
Lying, hypocritical, forked-tongue sacks of excrement.
Midas on August 26, 2009 at 2:20 PM
What does the Nobel Prize mean if Today it is given to Al Gore and This idiot!!
mcl2177 on August 26, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Once again: If single payer is so awesome, why do you have to lie to push it through?
lorien1973 on August 26, 2009 at 2:21 PM
useless.
moonbatkiller on August 26, 2009 at 2:21 PM
I say we use all the profits collected from Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and the USPS to fund Obamacare.
Daggett on August 26, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Krugman won’t rest until private property is a thing of the past.
That’s been tried before, of course, but Krugman is so much smarter than those well-meaning-but-flawed Soviets were.
fiatboomer on August 26, 2009 at 2:23 PM
So do the liberals jump out of the Trojan horse and say “SURPRISE” before or after the bill passes?
portlandon on August 26, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Is it just me, or does Krugman look like a retarded hobo in a cheap suit?
NathanG on August 26, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Krugman is not an idiot. Like Teddy, he is an extremely evil man.
proconstitution on August 26, 2009 at 2:25 PM
he changed his position, for Ted.
rob verdi on August 26, 2009 at 2:26 PM
It’s just you. His suit doesn’t look that cheap.
Daggett on August 26, 2009 at 2:26 PM
Boy, that Nobel Prize was really worth wasting on this clown.
Just another bootlicking Democrat hack hiding behind his ‘credentials’ to avoid having to be consistent in what he actually says and writes.
Yawn.
Good Lt on August 26, 2009 at 2:26 PM
If not for the few people out there who haven’t gotten it yet, it’s almost pointless to keep highlighting these stories. Obama said he favors single payer and countless other Dems have said Obamacare is the stepping stone to it… not to mention that it’s simply innevitable once government run HC destroys private industry.
RightWinged on August 26, 2009 at 2:27 PM
.
Racist!Creationist!akaag on August 26, 2009 at 2:27 PM
i think anninCA is really paul krugman.
SHARPTOOTH on August 26, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Mallard Fillmore today:
Obama: “A lot of people who are protesting my healthcare plan say that we in government are arrogant elitists. But what do they know?”
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/strips/mallard/2000/mallard1.asp
Daggett on August 26, 2009 at 2:28 PM
What kind of friggin’ character flaw do these folks have that they want to control and dominate every body?
Elizabetty on August 26, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Opposite. They are angry singlepayer is off the table. There’s no hiding their preferred plan.
Wanna be annoyed? Then look at the disparity between the base, what the leaders are spinning, and how they have managed to make this all about mad seniors rather than answer the direct question.
That one is simple.
Why should we trust this is NOT a bridge to singlepayer, when that is all your core base seems to talk about?
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 2:29 PM
See aforementioned Mallard Fillmore comic.
Daggett on August 26, 2009 at 2:30 PM
True. The retarded part is true though. Anybody who calls himself an economist and says a huge budget deficit is good for the economy is either delusional/retarded or a hack. In this case both will suffice.
NathanG on August 26, 2009 at 2:30 PM
You cannot possibly be talking about Michael Moore, director of Roger & Me, Bowling For Columbine and Sicko.
myrenovations on August 26, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Because lying about to push it through is is so awesome?
Loxodonta on August 26, 2009 at 2:31 PM
I really hate this greasy, little bug-eyed #$%&@*.
Doorgunner on August 26, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Krugman is a soulless little man…he and Howard Dean must have been separated at birth.
d1carter on August 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM
That’s because I’m the only one here who supports a public option.
But let me express my real opinion about Paul. He did some really good work in grad school, managed to parlay that into some post-grad work, won his prize.
Since then, he’s popped off columns with about as much thought as it takes most of us to pop off a really meaty blog response.
He writes them on the way out to his kid’s soccer games.
In short, I have been underwhelmed by his analysis, even in the primary, when he actually supported my favorite candidate.
That’s bad, when you don’t even like THOSE columns. *haha
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM
The US, the land of the free, brave, and episodic bubbles, is currently experiencing a healthcare bubble. Just look at US healthcare as a % of GDP and the nation’s aging demographics. The current levels of spending are completely unsustainable and no politician has the guts to admit it, not Obama and not his opponents.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS325US325&ei=qX-VSuiAOJLqMYffzPoH&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=kaiser+us+healthcare+spending+%25+gdp&spell=1
bayam on August 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Every single one of them.
venividivici on August 26, 2009 at 2:33 PM
An unshakeable belief that they, and they alone, know what is best for everyone.
MarkTheGreat on August 26, 2009 at 2:34 PM
That’s because I’m the only one here who supports a public option.
so one of us is in the wrong place, and it’s not me.
SHARPTOOTH on August 26, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Krugman actually believes the crap he spews. That Nobel Prize just keeps getting more and more insignificant, so easy a caveman can get it.
major dad on August 26, 2009 at 2:34 PM
A liberal hypocrite with two faces and a selective memory…why’s that news?
orlandocajun on August 26, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Krugman is an idiot masquerading as an intellectual.
GarandFan on August 26, 2009 at 2:35 PM
*sigh*
Why anyone listens to this man is beyond me. Anyone who says the words “thanks to the arcane rules of the Senate, have the ability to stop things” should be summarily deported.
NickelAndDime on August 26, 2009 at 2:36 PM
No…No. It was Dumb and Dumber
SPGuy on August 26, 2009 at 2:37 PM
Single payer is the holy grail of progressives.
There is no lie too big, no subterfuge too deep, no camouflage too ridiculous, that they won’t stoop to to get it.
There can be no doubt that the democrat party will try to ram it through, regardless of consequences. They’re playing for all the marbles now.
Rebar on August 26, 2009 at 2:37 PM
That’s bad, when you don’t even like THOSE columns. *haha
now it’s bad to exercise my rights as a american citizen while i still have them….it’s my right not to like this liberal puke.
SHARPTOOTH on August 26, 2009 at 2:37 PM
So you believe that the country will be better off when the govt controls everyone’s health care?
Because that is what the public option will lead to.
MarkTheGreat on August 26, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Weeeelllll.
I have heard that the Prize that Krugman got was not technically a “Nobel”, but another prize administered by the same committee.
All prizes are political, though. Politics taints everything but that which can be said to be free market.
Count to 10 on August 26, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Krugman, like many economists, doesn’t believe that today’s levels of healthcare spending are sustainable. It’s another bubble. But like everyone else, Krugman doesn’t want to direct a storm at himself of controversy by directly saying it.
By the time the nation’s growing obligations and deficits demand painful action in the next 10 years, it won’t be a question of rationed healthcare, but what is rationed.
bayam on August 26, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Krugman has a very chronic problem:
http://www.funlol.com/189/Head_Up_Your_Ass.html
belad on August 26, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Frank Rich was his partner, right?
NathanG on August 26, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Rebel here. I decided not to play by the “blog” rules a long time ago.
I believe in open discussion and debate.
Whatta concept.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 2:42 PM
This is all well and good but I want someone to confront Mr. Krugman with this stuff.
Cindy Munford on August 26, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Not to split hairs, buttt… he didn’t win a Nobel Prize. It is erroneously referred to as that, but it is actually an economic prize given in honor of Alfred Nobel.
“The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel.” I’m sure Krugman wouldn’t dissuade anyone from thinking that though. Idiot.
JAM on August 26, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Observe how Obama misdirects.
Feds: Stimulus money sent to 4,000 cons
Boston Herald report spurs probe
By Laura Crimaldi
–that’s Kennedy Camelot
We know what ObamaCare evolved from and is doomed to replicate:
Man collapses with ruptured appendix… three weeks after NHS doctors ‘took it out’
By Daniel Bates
The babies born in hospital corridors: Bed shortage forces 4,000 mothers to give birth in lifts, offices and hospital toilets
By Jenny Hope and Nick Mcdermott
And we know how Obama’s workers perform miracles in his name:
denver and the west
’08 race worker held in damage to Colorado Democratic HQ
By Jessica Fender, Denver Post
Kill Obama’s Death Bill before it kills the Dollar
maverick muse on August 26, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Here’s my ideas, undoubtedly full of beans.
I pictured 2 tiers. One, major medical. Offer that at truly a subsidized premium price. Taxpayers, pick up the cost, but remember, you’re already picking it up in ER rooms, so don’t squawk too much.
Two, a plan that is similar to car insurance offered by the state. It’s fairly priced. It’s no great savings, but it’s always available. It’ll cover more than major medical, but it’s not going to get you weekly massages at your chiropracter, either.
That way, you lose your job, that’s one less panic button that will keep you up worrying at nights.
What’s happened to this reform discussion is way beyond what I pictured.
But I think it’s because it’s turned into a welfare program that is, frankly, too expensive. That is NOT the fault of the House of Reps, either. They are elected, and they know their constinuents. We have far left, far right, and moderates. That is the system, as it should be.
This IS the fault of the administration, who did not show leadership, did not tell his supporters in Congress what he wanted (frankly, he doesn’t have a clue) and did exactly what Hillary told him not to do. He let the lobbyists drive the project.
Now, virtually nobody is happy. It appears to be the worst of all worlds. It’s a welfare program that will mostly benefit corporate entities.
I do not blame true conservatives one bit for objecting to this one.
It’s unacceptable.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 2:49 PM
No, you believe in hijacking threads with your ignorance and trying to rope people in with your sexual innuendos.
Knucklehead on August 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Which is what offends me the most. They aren’t even trying to be fiscally responsible. They know and don’t care that the savings estimates for state seizure of healthcare are pure fiction. Higher taxes on all are a given that they refuse to state in public.
highhopes on August 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Once again, Krugman 101.
Krugs did NOT win a “Nobel Prize”. He won a memorial prize in economics that was created in the late 1960s and which is administered by the Nobel Foundation. Nobel Prizes were established over a hundred years ago.
On their own website, the Nobel Foundation specifically states that the economic award is not a Nobel Prize.
Del Dolemonte on August 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Cindy Munford on August 26, 2009 at 2:43 PM
The show would end up with the confronter being cut off every other word while Krugman gets every second needed to expand on his brilliant stupidity.
meMC on August 26, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Interesting. I hadn’t realized that.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Observe how Obama misdirects.
Feds: Stimulus money sent to 4,000 cons
Boston Herald report spurs probe
By Laura Crimaldi
–that’s Kennedy Camelot
We know what ObamaCare evolved from and is doomed to replicate:
Man collapses with ruptured appendix… three weeks after NHS doctors ‘took it out’
By Daniel Bates
The babies born in hospital corridors: Bed shortage forces 4,000 mothers to give birth in lifts, offices and hospital toilets
By Jenny Hope and Nick Mcdermott
maverick muse on August 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM
I say expand Medicaid eligibility to reduce or eliminate the insurance gap, figure out a responsible deficit neutral way for paying the bill, and calling it a day. No end-of-life or marriage counseling, no elaborate schemes for mandatory insurance with tracking mechanisms through the IRS and increased administrative burdens for employers, and most of all no public plan.
highhopes on August 26, 2009 at 2:54 PM
And we know how Obama’s workers perform miracles in his name:
denver and the west
’08 race worker held in damage to Colorado Democratic HQ
By Jessica Fender, Denver Post
Kill Obama’s Death Bill before it kills the Dollar
/tired of waiting
maverick muse on August 26, 2009 at 2:54 PM
That could work. I don’t know how they got so far off-track on this.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Whatever happeed to the Krugman flying cat index?
Elizabetty on August 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
It’s not even a Trojan Horse. It’s happening in plan sight.
Oil Can on August 26, 2009 at 2:58 PM
What a dumbass.
Better matters not a whit.
Cheaper is what matters. It’s all that matters. This is what you get when you let people who have absolutely no experience in fending for themselves opine.
drjohn on August 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM
They know their constituents my ass!
Why do you think they are having union thugs keep their constituents out of the town-hall meetings or they are having teleconferences???
You need to pull your head out just like Krugman.
belad on August 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM
highhopes on August 26, 2009 at 2:54 PM
Federal physician, heal thyself before assuming any moral authority to decapitate independent medical practitioners to usurp their role and monopolize available treatment.
maverick muse on August 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM
CAN? We already know it will, because that’s what obumbo said he wanted to do with it, and has been saying that for years.
Spiritk9 on August 26, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Blue Dawgs are blocking the legislation. They are clear. Progressives are representing their liberal areas. They are clear. Everyone is miserable. That’s obvious.
Yes, they do know.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 3:02 PM
I guess people can’t argue with a Nobel Prize. For me they lost their luster when they gave them to Arafat and Algore.
Cindy Munford on August 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
For sure, there’s no big secret at all. The Holder CIA stuff is clearly a bone thrown to the progressives. Bloodthirsty, as always, they are upset that single-payer isn’t on the table.
It’s no trojan horse, at least not with the current direction.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
There are no borders on Stalinism. When people say it can’t happen here, not in the US, that’s when it’s time to start worrying.
RBMN on August 26, 2009 at 3:04 PM
If you want to be treated with respect, I suggest you start with the following two things:
1) Include the name and times stamp of the human being you are quoting. I know you know how to do that. And I know it takes more time for you to do that. But respect takes time.
2) Don’t post so frequently that you take over a thread. As I started writing this, there were 57 posts in this thread and 6 were from you.
If one doesn’t want to be treated like a troll, one doesn’t act like a troll. But this is just my opinion, and I’m not in charge here, and everyone can do as they wish, within the bounds of the Terms of Use.
Loxodonta on August 26, 2009 at 3:04 PM
You’re like the posting mother here. LOL*
Always with the rules, according to Lox.
No thanks.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 3:07 PM
This guy is a despot, like many liberals, full of hubris and a desire to centrally control everything because they’re so f-ing brilliant. Courtesy newsbusters, as Bill Maher said with regard to Obama’s failure to get healthcare reform passed already:
“You know, they’re talking about 60 votes they need,” Maher said. “Forget this stuff. You can’t get Americans to agree on anything. Sixty-percent? Sixty-percent of people don’t believe in evolution in this country. He just needs to drag them to it. Like I just said, they’re stupid. Just drag them to this.”
Firefly_76 on August 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Because their concern has never been “healthcare”. This is a lib power grab.
LibTired on August 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
c’mon Ann, are you really that naive? Single-Payer has always been the goal of democrats. They know they can’t do it up front, which is why they tried to do it through subterfuge. they did not “get off track”. this was the intended track, they simply did not expect to get caught.
Obama and his administration is pretty far to the left, and very beholden to the far-left of the base (unions and ACORN). That is why he is pushing pretty radical leftist legislation – health care; cap & trade; and card check – and why his economic policies are so far left (stimulas package giving money to ACORN?).
To claim that this somehow “evolved” into the current mess is just not true.
And, until very recently, you were on every thread denying the obvious – that this bill is meant to lead to single-payer.
I think you have now changed your tune b/c you realize what little credibility you had here at HA was being lost and you have to now try and sound reasonable – but your true colors are w/ the bill and single-payer, as demonstrated by your past lies in this debate about what is and is not contained in the bill.
Monkeytoe on August 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Mob rule isn’t always smart. I get Maher’s point. Emotionalism in the country is just like emotionalism in your family. It can lead to really stupid results.
But the mark of a good leader is to drag people into a workable and, ultimately, good solution. Obama isn’t doing anything remotely like that. He threw it to Congress, let the lobbyists eat it up like cake, made deals on the corporate side, and now is trying to act like his job is to give speeches, while bashing the opposition.
OK. Presidents DO use the bully pulpit, and they definitely have ALWAYS bashed the opposition.
But the plan itself? Man, it’s just not attractive.
He’s selling a bad product. That is the issue, in my mind.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Except the “progressives” (socialists) are, as always, completely dishonest. And this bill was completely dishonest from the get-go, as was Pelosi, Reid, and Obama.
I don’t think that even most voters in the “progressive” district would support the bill if their “progressive” rep was honest with them about it.
Funny how they always have to lie in their attempts to enact legislation.
Monkeytoe on August 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
I know this doesn’t really add much to the discussion, but…
If Krugman were a character in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, he would be half human, half nutria.
bitsy on August 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
I hate the term “progressive” as it implies being for progress, and who can be against progress?
In reality, every “progressive” idea and program is nothing but big gov’t socialism. Anyone who uses the term “progressive” is being dishonest from the get-go.
Monkeytoe on August 26, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Oh please, I’ve always been for a public option and think far-right is just as much a bunch of loons as far-left. I don’t post for credibility.
I would not begin to give my sense of self over to anonymous bloggers who say some of the stuff that some of you post daily. LOL*
That is absurd.
I do think healthcare insurance calls for reform, just as credit cards did, mortgages, and a host of other businesses that, frankly, have been operating out of control and picking our pockets for quite some time.
I’m open to solutions.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 3:16 PM
It means “Progressively Closer to Socialism.” Really!
Dark Eden on August 26, 2009 at 3:17 PM
I hate the term “progressive” as it implies being for progress, and who can be against progress
That term really flummoxed me over 2 years. They are a mixture. Some of the ideas are, truly, progressive.
Most are not. They want a return to unions, for example.
oy vey.
That’s NOT progressive. That’s retro.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Bill Maher needs to be “dragged into” the street and beaten to a bloody pulp. This guy needs a beating like a dirty rug. Oh, wait. That is a dirty rug on his head. Never mind.
NathanG on August 26, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Gee, no shit, Sherlock!
Public Option is Trojan Horse.
Has been all along.
Haiku Guy on August 26, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Progressives are communists. It’s as simple as that.
darwin on August 26, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Hey, hun. Hows it going?
You really do remind me of my ex ;-)
MeatHeadinCA on August 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM
It is not a bug,
As they say at Microsoft…
It is a feature.
Haiku Guy on August 26, 2009 at 3:40 PM
I’m not sure if he stars in this movie, but he has his penis on display in a Russian museum.
Michelle Dubois on August 26, 2009 at 3:46 PM
I can’t wait until this thread is old news. I’m tired of looking at that ugly little gnome.
NathanG on August 26, 2009 at 3:47 PM
What a tool. A fascist tool.
RandyChandler on August 26, 2009 at 3:50 PM
And what does that mean? What does being for “public option” without being for this particular bill mean to you?
You denied in many, many, many other threads that the bill’s “public option” would unquestionably lead to single-payer system. You denied it despite all the facts thrown your way. And you continued to support it.
What changes your mind now? That you can no longer pretend that the “public option” was not always meant to kill private insurance? I’m not sure what different facts have suddenly been presented that make you now say you are against it.
And, what do you define as “far left” and what do you define as “far right”. YOu keep saying that you are in that middle and ignore both extremes, however your past comments seem to put you pretty far left. And some things that are barely to the right of middle you seem to think are “far right.”
So I’d really be interested to know what in your mind represents far left and far right.
Monkeytoe on August 26, 2009 at 3:52 PM
I can’t wait for this lying, shifty-eyed POS to fade into obscurity.
Anyone planning to attend Princeton U in the fall should boycott his classes. Better yet, they should boycott the entire school.
UltimateBob on August 26, 2009 at 4:20 PM
I posted already on what I thought public option could be.
I’ll let that post stand
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 4:57 PM
If that’s evolution in progress… I’ll take Creationism.
malclave on August 26, 2009 at 5:00 PM
I hear that a lot from men. It’s OK by me today to hear that.
I think I felt hurt only while going though my own divorce. Today, I just let it roll off.
I means, you disagree.
AnninCA on August 26, 2009 at 5:13 PM
While I know in these threads, it is sometimes very hard not to be rattled and feel compelled to answer or respond to a troll, but if everyone in this blog would IGNORE ‘anninca’ she wouldn’t get any satisfaction. I’m not saying she’d go away…but we could get the satisfaction of ignoring her…
-YOU WILL NOT EVER CONVICE HER OF HOW WRONG SHE IS AND SHE WILL CONTINUE TO DOMINATE OUR DISCUSSIONS…SHE DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH US, SHE WANTS TO STOP US FROM HAVING ONE…DON’T LET HER…
Ltlgeneral64 on August 26, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Excellent thought…to further that…if single payer is SO awesome…why won’t the congressman give up their insurance and join in what they want to force us to take…
Ltlgeneral64 on August 26, 2009 at 5:25 PM
Krugman. Another “end-justifies-the-means” wanker. I’d write more, but I have to go clean up the dog-krugman in my back yard before the lawn service gets here.
mr.blacksheep on August 26, 2009 at 5:27 PM
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