Social Security cancels COLAs
posted at 9:30 am on August 24, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Barack Obama already has had a tough time with seniors on the health-care reform initiative, and for good reasons. The latest news from Social Security won’t make them any happier about it. The Social Security administration has canceled cost-of-living adjustments (COLAs) for the next two years, which means the fixed income on which these seniors rely will freeze at current levels. However, their Medicare premiums will still increase, which means they will get less money over the next two years, the first declines in SSA in more than 30 years:
Millions of older people face shrinking Social Security checks next year, the first time in a generation that payments would not rise. The trustees who oversee Social Security are projecting there won’t be a cost of living adjustment (COLA) for the next two years. That hasn’t happened since automatic increases were adopted in 1975.
By law, Social Security benefits cannot go down. Nevertheless, monthly payments would drop for millions of people in the Medicare prescription drug program because the premiums, which often are deducted from Social Security payments, are scheduled to go up slightly. …
Advocates say older people still face higher prices because they spend a disproportionate amount of their income on health care, where costs rise faster than inflation. Many also have suffered from declining home values and shrinking stock portfolios just as they are relying on those assets for income.
“For many elderly, they don’t feel that inflation is low because their expenses are still going up,” said David Certner, legislative policy director for AARP. “Anyone who has savings and investments has seen some serious losses.”
Inflation has been low enough that the cost of living has remained flat. Canceling COLAs might make sense with that in mind, except that the SSA’s increase in premiums are predicated on inflation in health care costs. If that’s true, then the COLAs should remain in place. Right now, it looks like the government wants to eat its cake and have it, too. Even those who agree with canceling COLAs when inflation stops have to answer for the premium increases.
Why are the premiums going up? Health care costs continue to go up — but SSA’s beneficiaries all use Medicare, which is a single-payer government program. The federal government has never solved the cost problem in Medicare, but now it wants to expand it for all Americans, either now or in the future. Anyone who has paid attention to the Medicare entitlement crisis understands that the government has no ability to contain costs even within its own existing systems, and the premium increases that will slam SSA recipients will eventually become the norm for everyone in ObamaCare.
Last week, I wrote about the corrosive effect that ObamaCare would have on wage growth, and the impact that would have on solvency for SSA. The AARP has relentlessly ignored the connection between this policy and the hastened bankruptcy of a system on which their entire membership relies. Perhaps this will serve as a wake-up call to the AARP, which finally decided to get off the sidelines for this issue, but apparently only to cheerlead slightly less for the Obama administration. Meanwhile, their members get squeezed in both directions.
Blowback
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I’m on SSN
pitter43 on August 24, 2009 at 10:33 PM
How is free retirement money any different then free health care?
How can anyone oppose Obama’s public option plan, while supporting SS?
———————————————————–
I’m on Disability SSN right now because stroke left me paralyzed. The government can cut me a check for every penny they stole from me over the last 40+ years and keep their SSN.
pitter43 on August 24, 2009 at 10:36 PM
Granny ain’t gonna be happy.
Get ready for the Wheelchair Mafia to get even more upset. First they want to unplug the Grandparents that are 80% of the costs of Medicare.
Now they want to pay Granny less before they unplug her.
Nice move Destroyer of our Nation Barack Hussein Soros.
PappyD61 on August 24, 2009 at 10:49 PM
I paid into SS my entire working career, knowing full well it was going to support the older generation, like my parents, who made this country great, fought evil globally in two world wars, and who, very simply, passed on a legacy of caring and respect for the elderly that I carry with me today. What on earth has happened to this country that we have not passed on that sense of honor and respect due to those who came before us? To me, it’s one more frightening piece of evidence that America is losing her soul. In a neighboring town last winter, an elderly man froze to death because he did not have the money for heat, but we pay SS benefits to immigrants who have not worked a day to contribute to the system? Sad, really sad.
oldoldbabs on August 24, 2009 at 10:50 PM
ANYONE BELIEVE…..?
That Congress would actually save Social Security if they were successful in unplugging Granny? OR…..just sayin….
…would Congress just keep overspending and we would wind up with a perpetual shortfall?
Naaaaa. That could never happen. Sorry my bad.
PappyD61 on August 24, 2009 at 10:50 PM
By the way…..
What exactly have the Blacks (96% support for BHO) gotten so far since the election as payback for their labors?
PappyD61 on August 24, 2009 at 10:53 PM
That’s it! Wage freeze for all Government Officials until notified!
BigMike252 on August 24, 2009 at 11:38 PM
I am owed SS. the people who did not pay in are not. half of ss goes to welfare. these people are not entitled. but the evil dems pay them anyway. i’ill never get back what i paid in because of the criminals of the dem party. no moral person has ever voted for a dem.
proconstitution on August 24, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Another broken campaign promise to seniors.
HellCat on August 24, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Step 1: Remove inflation adjustments to social security for a few years.
Step 2: Cause massive inflation for a few years.
Step 3: Celebrate solving social security crisis.
Brilliant!
jhffmn on August 25, 2009 at 12:45 AM
For those of you thinking hyperinflation is going to happen, remember this:
A hyperinflationary event would hurt the banks the most. The banks own Congress, the President, and the Federal Reserve. Therefore, hyperinflation isn’t going to happen.
Oh sure, the Fed could lose its mind and monetize the debt, but in order for hyperinflation to occur there has to be a subsequent, sustained hyperinflation in wages, which isn’t likely. Without that prices would quickly crash again and we’d see deflation balance things out.
We’re most likely looking at long term, massive deflation. We are in a debt-based recession, which means the only way out of it is either by paying off the debt (impossible considering how much is out there) or default (which forces bad debt out of the system and causes prices to plummet). If you’re in debt you’ll get screwed. If you’re in cash you’ll make out like a bandit if you know when to buy.
TheMightyMonarch on August 25, 2009 at 1:02 AM
Let me see,, I’ve got one knife stuck in my back so why should I oppose a second knife being stuck in my chest?
Eliminating SS sort kinda reminds me of that old back and white move The Tingler. You know,, where Vincent Price would operate on these people and remove these centipede things from people’s spines. It’ll be easier to keep them from getting to you in the first place than it is to have them removed from your spine.
JellyToast on August 25, 2009 at 6:40 AM
My wanting what was promised to me and what I paid into for makes me a socialist? I too was taxed before I was able to vote BTW (17-21). I drive a 20 year old ’89 Probe GT (cuz I love the car)and have never been to a casino of any kind.
The forced deductions for FICA amounted to much,much more than $200/year. After paying into the system for 48 years and collecting for a whopping 5 you think I qualify as a socialist?
I am not a whole lot different than most citizens my age yet you seem to think we all are living in the lap of luxury,that our only remaining goal in life is to screw the younger generations, when all we really want is what we worked our entire lives for based on what we were told our government was doing for us. Working hard and reaping the rewards of those labors is not socialist.
FYI I never in my life voted for a Democrat
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 7:04 AM
Absolutely correct!
Jeff from WI on August 25, 2009 at 7:10 AM
I did a little research on the financial position (vulnerability) of the middle class for my Town Hall talk. Total US assets= $57 Trillion. Middle Class assets = $33 Trillion. Total Federal, Fed Reserve, Private Debt = $39 Trillion. So even if you are completely out of debt personally you are still in the hole $6 Trillion. $6 Trillion / 300 Million = $20K. So, good news, you are only in the hole $20K, after you give up all your assets. Maybe they will pass us out some really keen jumpsuits in the work camps….But seriously for those that don’t think are monetary system is screwed up….how in the world can the class that produces all the products and services that constitute wealth end up in this kind of shape?
PS: I didn’t include unfunded federal mandates, $59 Trillion. Too depressing.
speed on August 25, 2009 at 7:20 AM
Shhhhhhhh. If you broadcast information like that so that it is general knowledge,the next thing you know there’ll be a federal “assets tax”
Based on ur numbers, assets to debt including unfunded mandates. 57:98
Gee what’s wrong with that? /s
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 7:41 AM
No you did not. You paid an income tax called Social Security Tax. You did not pay into any system. You did not have an account. You have no legal right to the money whatsoever.
angryed on August 25, 2009 at 7:47 AM
pitter43 on August 24, 2009 at 10:36 PM
What about the other 300 million that the govt has stolen money from? How do they get their money back? Or do you believe that the fact that you are disabled entitles you to be the only one who gets paid back?
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 8:17 AM
So you want the rest of society to compensate for the fact that you are unwilling to care for your own mother?
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 8:18 AM
Pathetic, even by your standards.
I guess in your world, SS payments are voluntary?
Nobody has any obligation to uphold promises that they were not party to making.
It’s basic logic, to bad you spend so much mental energy (especially considering your limited supply) in trying to invent new ways to ignore the obvious.
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 8:22 AM
The standard defense of the hard core socialist.
Reality is is not reasonable.
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 8:24 AM
They vote for politicians who spent their career telling them what they wanted to hear, rather than the truth.
Now it is up to the next generation to pay for the lies that they told themselves?
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 8:28 AM
Your demanding that other people pay for your retirement makes you a socialist.
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 8:30 AM
You still at it?
You haven’t had this much attention since you bought those 12 blow up dolls and had a “party”.
Meanwhile, you are driving on “socialist” streets, going to “socilist” schools, watching “socialists” sport teams, working for “socialist” companies….but you don’t see the irony on taking government services you didn’t pay for, and refusing government services to those who have paid.
Ohhhhhh, the irony….and you don’t get it…
right2bright on August 25, 2009 at 8:44 AM
So explain this to me then. For a generation, these millions have voted for a lie.
Now that it’s obvious it’s a lie, we do what? Pretend it isn’t because they believed in it?
Elections mater.
jhffmn on August 25, 2009 at 8:53 AM
MTG
Why do you insist on showing the world that you are;
1) Self centered
2) Ignorant
3) Selfish
4) Immature
5) Un-America
6) A troll
???
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Do the right thing and try to address the issue?
or would you have America forsake it’s ideals and just say screw you to all those who belived in their country?
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 8:57 AM
It’s amazing how many people spend so much effort trying to prove that the govt program that benefits them is different from all the other govt programs, and is therefore exempt from normal criticisms.
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Selfish?
I’m not the one demanding that other people’s tax money be spent on me.
Ignorant?
So anyone who disagrees with your right to have other people’s tax money spent on them is now ignorant. (Isn’t it amazing how socialists love to throw insults instead of dealing with facts.)
Selfish?
Not wanting to have my hard earned money stolen so that you don’t have to work is now selfish?
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Criticize the program all you want and you’ll find me and many others joining with you.
The main thrust of your criticism however has not been the program but the millions of people who were taken in by it.
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 9:03 AM
What is the right thing? SS and Medicare will ultimately bankrupt the country. At some point someone isn’t getting their fair share because it’s a ponzi scheme.
Is the right thing that I keep paying in and don’t get anything for it as long as our current seniors don’t get a cut?
jhffmn on August 25, 2009 at 9:20 AM
Do you understand the concept of representative government? We certainly are responsible because we voted in the people who have either ignored the problem or were complicit in exacerbating it.
WE voluntarily voted and ergo responsible.
It’s typical of your type to be constantly passing the buck. You belong in a communist state. There your pass the buck, immoral, and honorless existence would fit right in. You would be correct when you blame the government for the ills they heap upon you because you don’t have the opportunity to vote them out.
Do us all a favor and go away. You are a disgrace to humanity.
csdeven on August 25, 2009 at 9:23 AM
I offered this yesterday
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 9:32 AM
52 million people are on SS. Are you actually trying to convince us that millions of those people would not end up starving, homeless, or both? As I said, I know of 5 just in my family that would find themselves in that situation.
Reality? You keep using that word and it’s clear you do not understand it’s meaning. Again, we are not surprised. It’s typical of trolls to fixate on a erroneous concept, ignore facts, and beat that drum until you get so pissed off that you say something that gets you banned.
For that day I bid you a preemptive “buh bye” and good riddence.
csdeven on August 25, 2009 at 9:32 AM
Ed Morrissey, do you really favor these transfers from workers and parents, or are you just being opportunistic?
Kralizec on August 25, 2009 at 9:36 AM
In a perverse and un-comfortable way , the whole argument has gaping flaws. Even if SS and Medicare were wiped out today, there would still be Medicaid and some version of Aide to Families with Dependent Children(or the latest version of same)wasteful and over staffed education spending with all of the above still applied to illegal aliens. The many destitute seniors would turn to welfare, food stamps, Medicaid and require acres of subsidized housing all paid for by those folks still working. There is no easy solution and just maybe, no solution at all.(except the death panels, involutary sterilization, limiting the numbers of children, withholding life saving measures etc etc). It would continue down the road of fewer and fewer people actually paying taxes and more and more of the burden falling on those who do. The younger generations would still be carrying most of the load with that load growing disproportionately.Sooooooo–that said let’s embrace Obama’s newly wishfully imposed disciplines? I have noticed though that these disciplines seem only directed at the elderly and not the other huge offenders listed above, who, co-incidentally, make up a lot of O’s and the Dems. voting bloc.
jeanie on August 25, 2009 at 9:41 AM
Most people are coming up with an all or nothing approach to solve this. There are some very specific hard realities that must be addressed. You make one side of the argument and others make the opposite. Both are valid concerns.
Those that paid in must be compensated for several reasons. They paid into the system. Their money was used to pay the previous generation. Two, this country must honor it’s commitments. Three, the poor will be affected disproportionally by this. Then we have millions in the streets and starving. That will be a huge burden on society. Wholesale death etc. will result.
People should not have to pay into a system that they will never benefit from.
The only solution I see is one that passes the burden to future generations. SS should be funded with debt. Taxation will cease immediately and those whom will be coming into the system will be on their own. Those that are already in the system for 5 years or less will receive set amounts at retirement and that is it.
Our future generations will despise us for our slothfulness and passing the buck onto them. But I dare say they will not make the same mistakes we have made.
csdeven on August 25, 2009 at 9:43 AM
It’s one thing to be taken in.
It’s quite another thing to work overtime to remain ignorant.
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 9:56 AM
So we the people are ultimately responsible for every promise a politician makes????
And future generations, who weren’t even alive when the “promise” was made, have no choice but to continue to support the promise????
My, you are pushing the bull here.
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Well, yeah–we are…or the majority are. Out they go, or should, if they betray the trust of the voters. The current crop of perfectly awful Legislators are our fault. We have not been vigilant, we have not made examples of those who abuse our trust and now it’s coming home to roost. I just hope this country has sense enough to start un-doing the mess in the Capital…..much of the Hill qualifies as a national disgrace.
jeanie on August 25, 2009 at 10:17 AM
jeanie,
The voters in general may be, but what about those of us voted against, even campaigned against members of the current politicians.
How does this apply to politicians who were elected before we were of voting age, perhaps even before we were born?
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 10:28 AM
Regarding helping the poor.
Remember, eliminating SS would mean an instant 12.5% raise for every worker in the country.
That’s a lot of money for people to be even more generous with.
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Let’s see…..
The Chi-Coms are getting tired of buying our debt which seems to leave only the printing presses for supplying money which is about to bring on rampant inflation and the Obama government cancels cost of living increases in our elderly’s Social Security?
How about it elderly Democrats…..you’re welcome to join us in getting this jerk out of office.
Ernest on August 25, 2009 at 10:38 AM
The nation did not begin with your birth and it will not end at your death. What went before was and what comes after will be. In the middle is what you did with your life to improve things. How will your gravestone read. Here lise MTG. He whined is way through life and blame others for his troubles. Now he lies here remembered by no one but himself. That is the logical conclusion I form based on your replis.
What this means to you is that as a citizen you are obligated to follow the laws of the nation as they were given to you. You can work to change them during your lifetime. After you leave this world what remains will be your legacy to future generations. I hope they look upon you with a better view than you appear to look upon your ancesters.
Your ability to blame every single person alive or dead for your problems is incredible. Look in the mirror. You may see the real person you should blame.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 10:39 AM
thank you for that!
I needed a good laugh this morning
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Although they won’t admit it a lot of them will go to the polls in 2010 and let the democrats know how they feel. Lets make sure our candidates are real conservatives. Not like the last bunch we elected.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 10:50 AM
INHO they are awake. The AARP runs like big union, collecting dues which are used like funny money by the people at the top to promote their political agendas in the name of the people at the bottom.
How many minutes between each AARP membership ad on cable ?
AARP promo ads remind me of charities and tele-churches which spend large percentages of donations on salaries and trawling for more money
From the gov SSA site
From the Labor Dept site:
Around here we keep paying more at the store for shrinking value, smaller boxes, shorter rolls. Fast food has deals but large fries is what small used to be. Restaurants are dropping standard ingredients from recipes. There are selective price wars where certain items are given away and other prices hiked to counter. The net may be a drop, but people need more than a $30 vacuum cleaner or 10 cans of spaghetti for $10 to survive
Ask a Townhall in Detroit if the CPI has dropped for them.
entagor on August 25, 2009 at 10:56 AM
You weren’t alive when the constitution was established yet you benefit from the work of the politicians who enacted it.
Move to a communist country. You’ll be happier.
csdeven on August 25, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Bwahahahahahahaaaa!!!! You’re putting in way more overtime than anyone else in this discussion.
csdeven on August 25, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Even more irony, way more then anyone else, spent hours, days on this thread…and he doesn’t see the irony in his statement.
Meanwhile he is driving on public roads, taken advantage of public education, takes his tax credits, all subsidies, and he doesn’t get it….
He is F’in brilliant I tell you, just F’in brilliant…I hope he keeps posting….
right2bright on August 25, 2009 at 11:08 AM
The ignorance you have put on display for us is staggering. You aren’t kidding anyone. You aren’t going to donate a dime of any money saved to charities.
Take every dime from millions of Americans and the burden it puts on the rest of us will make that 12.5% disappear. And will most likely take much more along with it when we have to start paying hospital bills, funeral expenses, welfare, food stamps, etc.
csdeven on August 25, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Either his ox isn’t the one that will be gored by eliminating SS, or he is just being a troll, or he is genuinely a mean, honorless, and morally bankrupt troglodyte.
csdeven on August 25, 2009 at 11:16 AM
It’s the attention, he has finally found a post that people will respond.
Guys like him will trade looking like a fool, to getting attention.
right2bright on August 25, 2009 at 11:25 AM
His sign on name tells you all you need to know about him.
A name like MArkThe Great could only come from a person with very low self esteem. I figure since he’s on here all day and is obviously not retired that we won’t be hearing much from him once school is back in session.
Puberty is a bitch for the reclusive
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Social Security is a ponzi scheme. They take money from new investors to pay off earlier investors. Ponzi schemes are unsustainable.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 11:47 AM
You obviously have no idea what a ponzi scheme actually is. This is from the Social security history website.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Sorry left off the ssa history quote.
You obviously have no idea what a ponzi scheme actually is. This is from the Social security history website.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 11:58 AM
What do you expect them to say? “Yes, we’re a ponzi scheme!”? It will fail eventually, or need to be reorganized into a real investment plan.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 12:10 PM
Lets see how much you know. Tell us what a ponzi scheme is?
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 12:14 PM
Quick now! no goggling(s?)
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 12:18 PM
A ponzi scheme is where new investment is required to pay the promised return on the old investments. It can only keep going with a growing pool of contributors or increased contributions from the existing pool.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 12:21 PM
The wikipedia entry for ponzi scheme has this interesting line:
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 12:31 PM
The problem with social security is not really a socail security problem. The real issue is that the govenment borrowed all the money we paid in over the years giving us IOU’s in return. Now that we baby boomers are starting to retire probably by 2018 or so it will be time for the government to pay back on those IOUS. Sometime around 2042 or so the IOUS will have been paid back. Then the so called trust fund will be empty. The issue never was with socail security. The issue is almost like government musical chairs. No party wants to get the blame for the tax increases needed to pay back those IOUS. There is only one choice. Raise taxes or destroy the social security system well in advance of 2018 or so.
Youger workers look at it ans see the future. Our educational investment in them has paid off. The surprise is that instead of dealing with the real issue and making to govenrment cut back on spending our SS surplus with will run through 2017 they are turning on us the old people. That in my opinion is being orchestrated by the career politicians we have. The politicians how to pit old vs young and avoid judgment day when it becomes obvious to the american people what happened to our money.
All of the people here has a vested interst in the outcome of the debate. The real tragedy is the politicians have succeeded in turning us agaisnt one another. It that is the case so be it. The baby boom generations is the generation who built this nation to the be the most powerful in history following the lead of the greatest generation. We will stick together and we will win this battle because it means our survival. Some of the younger generation have lost their moral compass. They will feel the pain when they collapse the economy and there are no more trillions in bailout money as we oldsters withdraw our tremendous wealth from the system that pays their way. That is the future unless we unite and hold the politicians accountable at the ballot box.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 12:33 PM
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Okay now tell us why a ponzi scheme will always fail.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Eventually you will run out of money. Even the government can’t increase spending forever.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 12:46 PM
What did you think of GWB’s social security reform ideas?
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Nice quote but the analogy you are trying to make is flawed. We paid into the system at a much higher rate than the retirees up until the near future (9 years from now) consummed it. The politicians looked at it as free money apparently and borrowed it to fund things that were obviously not popular like the vietnam war and the great society all the way to housing for the poor. They did this to avoid the hefty tax increases it would entail. We all know the story. In the 45 years that I and others of the baby boom generation have paid into the system we accumulated trillions of excess dollars than those social security consumed. Where is that money? Who took it? Maybe I should say who stole it. Is there anyone here who believes for one minute that the current crop of politicians in either major party cares about you? Of course they do at election time. Who do they care about in between elections? With rare exception it certainly is not you or me or anybody but themselves.
Do any of you worried about social security ven care that in the not too distant future care that our national debt service (just the interest on the debt) wwill exceed 75% of the nations GDP. Do you even realize what hyper inflation is? You’ll need a bushel basket of money to buy a loaf of bread. You’ll be paying 80% of you income in taxes just to break even. That is your future. And here some of you are bashing seniors over their meager social security check.
I hate to rain on your parade young ones but one day when you are in the soup line and your million dollar homes sit empty, your BMW’s still in the garage and you need $100,000 for a meal it will be too late. IT’s time to think of the reality of the situation and what it means to you when you are our age.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM
If I may jump in on this. I think it would have been a step in the right direction.
Think about this,what effect would an announcement by the SSA that they were going to invest all future “contributions” in the stock market have on that market?
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Don’t even try to answer a question with a question. That is the same as admitting you have no idea what you are talking about and want to change the subject. Get back to talking about your ponzi scheme comparison. Or you can simply admit that Social security is not a ponzi scheme or even that you have no idea what a ponzi scheme really is in which case you have no aboility to make that comparison to beging with.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 12:59 PM
/barfs
Sure why not. SS was also planed to create a giant cookie jar for LBJ to raid and then to accumulate unfunded liabilities. It should be noted, 10 trillion in unfunded liabilities is nothing like real bankruptcy.
jhffmn on August 25, 2009 at 1:00 PM
No, your wanting the people of this nation to sacrifice their wages so you can stop working to earn your keep makes you a socialist, as low as any welfare leech. There is no way on this earth you paid in close to $60,000 during your 48 years, yet you have already taken that from people who are working for a living, and you are poised to steal more. None of these people made a promise to you, especially the teenagers under 18 who aren’t even allowed to vote, but watch as their McDonald’s paycheck disapears into your grasping fingers.
Futhermore, I don’t believe you are living in the “lap of luxury,” I believe you are living in the den of a lazy thief, just like every other welfare sponge who fabricates excuses for their sloth.
TMK on August 25, 2009 at 1:06 PM
heh don’t get me started on LBJ. He got elected by saying he would never send americans boys to fight in an asian boys war. We all know how that turned out. Nixon got his peace with honor. We all remember the POWs who never came home and the evacuation of Vietnam, the boat people, and the 2 million+ southeast asians murdered by the communists in the aftermath. Sorry….you hit a nerve
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Even if the government didn’t steal all the money, it would have run out around 2042, as you said earlier. Thanks to our politicians we face collapse now instead. Anyway, I agree with your pessimistic assessment of the economy/debt/future, etc. I don’t see how it can be fixed even if we all do unite.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 1:07 PM
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Actually I chose the name because it drives the moonbats crazy. As you so amply have demonstrated.
Wanting to take other people’s money for my use, is now patriotism.
Not wanting to have my money stolen by a bunch of greedy old farts who couldn’t be bothered to save up for their own retirement is now selfishness.
Isn’t it amazing how liberals have to torture the language in order to justify their own existence.
MarkTheGreat on August 25, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Can you explain what you mean in a more rational manner. To resort to name calling and accusation is beneath the caliber of most people here. I beleive you may not have any good points to make and if you don’t I understand but I am starting to simply bypass your posts without reading because quite frankly they make very little sense. I tried to understand you better by going to the website that your name here references but it was even worse as I was having a problem with the blackberry jargon used on that website TMK.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 1:15 PM
All I can say is you are still avoiding the question I asked about ponzi schemes.
This is really the issue in my opinion you wrote:
That is about as sad a situation as I can think of. It appears you have given up without a fight. I feel sorry for you. Truly I do. The only hope I can offer is you’ll never know unless you try. It is amazing what people can accomplish if they only try. Why not give it a try? Learn from the mistakes we made and hold there politicians accountable. We’ll help you and together we can do it.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 1:21 PM
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 1:21 PM
I’m pretty sure I answered all your questions about Ponzi schemes. Which one did I miss?
Can you tell me why social security isn’t a Ponzi scheme, other than the SSA’s saying that it isn’t? Is it because they can raid the treasury or print money to pay retirees? Technically true, but that’s not really an improvement. Ponzi schemers often take money to fund other projects so because that contributes to the problem is not a disqualifier.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 1:37 PM
By deciding as a young man that I would try to be a good citizen of this country I accepted certain responsibilities. Among those was paying into the Social Security System to insure that the generation before me was able to live out their final days at least with food on their table and a roof over their head. The population at that time was about half what it is now. Allowing for a normal increase in population (and work force) gave a reasonable expectation that when my turn came, younger “good” citizens would accept their responsibility and I could also spend my final days with food on the table.
Since then a couple of things have happened to negatively affect those expectations.
LBJ and his great society have raped the social security funds. Young people growing up have been taught that they are the be all to end all. That they have no responsibilities to anything other than themselves and that good citizenship means throwing everyone under the bus that might possibly stand in the way of their self gratification.
They also believe that the proper way to debate a pressing issue is demean and insult those who disagree with them.
A very liberal trait I might add.
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Please go back and read our string to figure out what you did not answer. You made the accusation that Social Security is a ponzi scheme. Now prove your accusation. I have no accusation to defend, you do. Stop trying to deflect your issue back to me. It is very easy to see through your attempt at reversing the question that you have no facts to back you up. It is up tp you to prove your point of pick up your marbles and go home. You simply have no leg to stand no so why not just give it up.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 1:43 PM
I agree with everything you wrote. This one line I highlighted is exactly the same opinion I reached about MTG.I think he is a liberal trying to get sup-port among the conservatives for his plan to destroy social security. It is the only thing that makes sense.
What is even more intersting is that it has typically been the liberals who stole our money over the years. It has also been the liberals who are crying the sky is falling ( and it may) we better do something about the old people ( just like MTG) and finally it is the liberals who are trying to socialize the country to cover up what dirty deeds they have done in the past.
This country is unique in the history of man. The liberals want to make it into a clone of the socialist european countrys. Cradle to grave control thats what they want. That is really what is at stake.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 1:53 PM
I think one thing the liberals have not figured out is this. The US is pretty much a middle of the road country. Split pretty much down the middle conservative/liberal. What I see happening in my neck of the woods is that even among obama supporters the trand is toward being more conservative. In the US it only takes a few percentage points to swing the tide. I think that it is issus like the potential destruction of Social Security and the health care debate are making a difference. This is going to get one huge block of baby boomers voting conservative. This is going to give the congress back to the right. Obama is a one termer who as history will record made Jimmy Carter look almost presidential.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 2:04 PM
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 1:43 PM
I checked. I answered them all. Now these are my opinions.
Social Security requires new workers to continue paying retirees, the pittance of interest on the IOUs is insufficient. It will go broke around 2042. It is a Ponzi scheme.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 2:06 PM
I despair of having a decent debate here since the ones who disagree with us appear to be from a much younger generation.
Where we are used to debating a subject with respect for the opposite view,even though we might disagree strongly, it appears that today’s format is, if someone doesn’t agree with you they are somehow sub-human.
I like to use as an example of how I think people should interface, the relationship between two old Hollywood figures. Henry Fonda and John Wayne. Diametrically opposed politically to the extreme but,still the best of friends. Today it would be seen as heresy
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Cancels the COLA increase and increases the Medicare insurance that is deducted from their checks. There are going be some angry older voters in 2010, if they can remember this when they go to vote.
SC.Charlie on August 25, 2009 at 2:10 PM
You truly fail to understand what a ponzi scheme is.
You also fail to acknowledge that the US Government owes trillions to the social security system that must be paid back starting in 2018. You also fail to acknowledge that every working man and woman will pay into the system throughout their working lives. You also fail to acknowledge that the baby boomers will die off eventally and you will retire and collect your check while your children and grandchildren pay for it. In essence you are going to pay for what the generation before mine did with my money. Not only that but you are going to like it because the alternative is for the government to confiscate your wealth to pay my benefit if you don’t.
How does that differ from a ponzi scheme? See if you can figure it out. Why do ponzi schemes fail?
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM
I’ll help make up cards for those oldsters who can read and for the rest I’ll help remind them as I wheel them into the voting booth.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Stumped. I don’t see the difference.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 2:19 PM
BEYOND INSANITY!
Obama says the Post Office doesn’t work; Schumer says Medicare will be broke in the next few years; The U.S. Government administers these offices and programs as well as Social Security; How many years have they had to make these programs work? And these guys think we are foolish enough to believe they can manage a health care program?
This is more than insanity; It’s downright STUPID!
Cybergeezer on August 25, 2009 at 2:23 PM
There are some of the younger generation who certainly are greedy and seem heartless and uncaring. They are very vocal and they dominate blogs like hot air and such. It is very easy to overlook it but when you consider there are very few of them and although vocal that do not know how to debate. That have no idea what it means to respect and listen to an opponents position. They have no idea that sometimes debate leads negotiation and ultimately to good solutions through compromise. They are just spoiled brats stamping their feet and holding their breath. In this world they only shout louder than anyone else. In the end only those like themselves stay to listen. The rest of us ignore them. move on, and solve the issues.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Oh, maybe it’s because there isn’t one. You assume there will always be enough wealth to pay ever increasing benefits to retirees. Population always goes up. Prosperity goes on forever. That is not necessarily so.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 2:25 PM
I agree that there are many young people whom you could have a decent debate with. They don’t seem to show up here though. Perhaps they are out leading productive lives?
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 2:31 PM
You just proved you truly do not know what a ponzi scheme is.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 2:32 PM
that’s right.
John McCain is on CNN. He is haveing a town hall and it is amazing the respect the two sides have for one another. Why can’t the democrats do it this way?
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 2:33 PM
OK. Tell me please. If I made an honest mistake, you should have done it hours ago. If there is no serious answer forthcoming, I will assume you are a sophist and that I proved my point.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 2:34 PM
This is what you call a rebuttal? Do you even understand that the only “self-gratification” going on here is at the hands of a man who has put down his tools and picked up his fork and spoon, demanding strangers feed him, that strangers house him, that strangers clothe him, because it is their unwritten socialist “duty?”
Right now, there is a 98-year-old woman in Mexico, earning her daily bread by picking beans with withered, arthritic fingers, bending her tired back day after day. She cannot do much, but she does all she can. At night she prepares meals for dozens over charcoal fires, and she won’t eat a bite until her family is well-fed. She will do this until the day she dies, because she knows sloth leads to death. Meanwhile, you are lounging your days away in the sort of luxury she can’t even imagine in her ancient mind, as you poo-poo the young you pilfer from.
You are beyond disgusting.
TMK on August 25, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Is kanda going to tell me where I’m wrong in asserting that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme? So far he has provided nothing except saying it isn’t and that I don’t truly know what a Ponzi scheme is. What he has not done is told me explicitly where I am wrong. He has also provided his description of Social Security, which sounds like a Ponzi scheme to me, but not to him apparently.
I still think Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
zmdavid on August 25, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Let me tell what a ponzi scheme is. First you get some investers. You basically pay them back “dividends” out of their investment. They tell others what a great investment it is. The others invest. This in turn is used to pay dividends. This continues until finally there is not enough money coming in to pay dividends to all the investers. At that point the word gets out. Investers stop investing and the scheme cwith simply collapse.
Social security is a program that pays retirement, survivors, and disability benefits to those who qualify. You need to work 40 quarters (10 years) to quality for retirement benefits. Dirung your retirement years you do not receive any “dividend” back Your contributions are used to pay the present retirees and excess in put into government bonds. They are special bonds that only the governemnt can hold. They are the trust fund. The IOU’s the governemnt owes us. Sometime around 2017 the benefits will exceed the income of the social security system. At that point the government will need to start paying back on the IOU’s. The government will need to tax you to pay that back. It is only fair because my money went to pay for the roads you drive on. We funded the schools your children attend remember the school budget that was 90% federal money. That was my social security payment. You have enjoyed the benefit of my money but you seem to think that I should not in my later years reap the benefit. I paid it for the generation before me. That is the trust. I trusted that you the generation after me would pay it back. You should trust that the next generation will pay yours and so on. The problem is that the politicians have given you the mindset that it won’t be there for you. I can understand why you feel like you don’t want to pay now. The issue is that you are letting the politicians off the hook for what they did you all of our generations. When you figure out the difference between a ponzi scheme and a pay as you go social security system maybe you’ll understand.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Sorry I was not fast enough for you. I see you are one of the instant gratification types. That is okay but remember this. You can start getting all upity if you want to. When you get disrespectful our discussion is over. I expect mutual respct or I’m going to end this discussion and let your ignorant ponzi scheme statements stand on their own.
Trust me when you reply to me I will reply to you. It might be immediate or later but it will happen.
kanda on August 25, 2009 at 2:57 PM
If you find me and my ideals disgusting, I am damned proud of it!
I am not a socialist. I am a conservative. One of the tenets being to fulfill my commitments as an American citizen. I did that. Proudly.
You don’t like me and the fact that I lived my life according to the mores of my time?
Based on your scurrilous mutterings here,that is a badge of honor.
oldernwiser on August 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM
And so the conservative movement putters out. You see, old people like entitlements. They like them a lot.
Pay up youngsters.
jhffmn on August 25, 2009 at 3:04 PM
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