Shhh: Obama to continue rendition program for terrorists
posted at 4:45 pm on August 24, 2009 by Allahpundit
We already knew he was using “rendition-lite,” where instead of capturing detainees and then transferring them to foreign agents, U.S. intel would lead those agents to the suspect and let them make the bust themselves. Looks like we’re going to drop the “lite” now and go with the supersized version.
Rest assured, though, there won’t be any torturing done. Would shadowy foreign operatives lie?
The administration officials, who announced the changes on condition that they not be identified, said that unlike the Bush administration, they would give the State Department a larger role in assuring that transferred detainees would not be abused.
“The emphasis will be on insuring that individuals will not face torture if they are sent over overseas,” said one administration official, adding that no detainees will be sent to countries that are known to conduct abusive interrogations…
“It is extremely disappointing that the Obama administration is continuing the Bush administration practice of relying on diplomatic assurances, which have been proven completely ineffective in preventing torture,” said Amrit Singh of the American Civil Liberties Union, who tracked rendition cases under President George W. Bush.
She cited the case of Maher Arar, a Syrian-born Canadian sent in 2002 by the United States to Syria, which offered assurances against torture but beat Mr. Arar with electrical cable anyway.
The Obama task force proposed improved monitoring of treatment of prisoners sent to other countries, but Ms. Singh said the usual method of such monitoring — visits from American or allied consular officials — had also been ineffective. A Canadian consular official visited Mr. Arar several times, but the prisoner was too frightened to tell him about the torture, according to a Canadian investigation of the case.
Stupid question: Isn’t the whole point of rendition to apply pressure to a detainee that couldn’t legally be applied in your own jurisdiction? If so, what’s to be gained by sending them to countries that don’t practice enhanced interrogation? Better to keep them here and let Obama’s new A-team sweet-talk them, no? Maybe The One wants rendered detainees to think they’re in for a rougher time from foreign agents, whose intimidating reputation might be enough to soften them up. But if that’s the case, how is rendition substantially different from, say, the CIA’s empty threat to harm Khaled Sheikh Mohammed’s kids? If fear is torture, isn’t the mere threat of harsh treatment implicit in rendition a form of torture too?
Meanwhile, in totally unrelated breaking news, Holder’s set to appoint a special prosecutor for CIA interrogators who threatened detainees. Exit question: Does that explain why they’re retaining rendition? After all the self-flagellation from the left about enhanced interrogation, now replete with the prospect of criminal charges against American intelligence, terrorists know perfectly well they have nothing to fear from being in U.S. custody. Jordanian custody, however…
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Still more of “operation change the subject” imho. They have brought up the CIA bugbear what, three times this year?
dogsoldier on August 24, 2009 at 5:38 PM
I’m to lazy to go back to all the torture threads where you did nothing but that. So I’ll just use this:
Yeah, who cares if the CIA threatens to murder children and rape mothers. And you accuse liberals of having skewed morals? Sheesh.
Grow Fins on August 24, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Not three minutes earlier you used this passive-aggressive jab to show your moral superiority. You are a LIAR of the worst kind.
Scrappy on August 24, 2009 at 5:38 PM
I thought Clinton started the Rendition program, I guess they can start by trying him for war crimes.
Howcome on August 24, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Fixing my botched quotes…
I’m to lazy to go back to all the torture threads where you did nothing but that. So I’ll just use this:
Not three minutes earlier you used this passive-aggressive jab to show your moral superiority. You are a LIAR of the worst kind.
Scrappy on August 24, 2009 at 5:40 PM
getalife.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 5:41 PM
And Gitmo is not a concentration camp. Stalin was a big favorite of the left in his time, and he really did do the concentration camp thing. The Khmer Rouge were roll models for the left and they too did the concentration camp thing. Hitler who was a National Socialist also did the concentration thing.
Those were concentration camps. Gitmo is a prison and what is more it has been operated everyday since Obama became President.
If Spathi or any other leftie wants to have a shred of credibility, they need to call things by their right names. If they can not do that, then they are either uninformed or insincere.
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Terry,
I’ve heard those claims. We need to put Clinton on trial if he really started did extraordinary renditions, but I think his involvement was limited to plain old renditions (the ones that the entire EU and U.N. do not have a problem with)
Sorry the words are so similar but this debate does require the ability to distinguish between renditions and extraordinary renditions.
Otherwise we’re just talking past each other.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 5:43 PM
getalife wasn’t nearly as entertaining. :)
NathanG on August 24, 2009 at 5:43 PM
(laughter)
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Hornet!! LOL
Good to see ya.
bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Terrye,
Hmmm I’m not a leftist though. In fact, I’ve never voted for a democrat before.
I don’t necessarily vote for republicans always though mostly 3rd party so I consider myself an independent.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Or Acroso?
semloh on August 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM
It’s people like you who enjoy the fruits of freedom and liberty but spit on the people who secure it for you. You spit on the people that have the guts and balls to do what you can’t … even if you had to.
You’re a gutless worm and guess what? You know it.
darwin on August 24, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Spathi
I thought you were a Anarchist Lib?
bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 5:46 PM
Khaled cheikh Mohammed had his children tortured with fire aunts to help get his location as well as some other techniques.
I don’t know if the CIA was involved in that, but I wouldn’t put it past em.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Spathi says the CIA is like the KGB. What an idiot.
See this is what happened. Barack is starting to sink, his crazy ass base on the left is getting pissed.
He says to himself, as much as these people want nationalized health care, they hate their country more. Give them an opportunity to trash their country, pander to the enemy and in general act like a bunch of American hating loons and they will forget all about health care. They will sit their sites on witch trials, er I mean war crimes trials and when they do…they will get off my back.
And here is Spathi, living proof that this kind of thing works. For awhile. But luckily most Americans are like Spathi. Thank God.
BTW Spathi, the EU and the UN have more than willing to look the other way while mass murdering dictators all over the world, starved, raped, killed, imprisoned and oppressed millions of people. So who really cares what those hypocrites have to say?
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Does that include Valerie Plame? Checkmate.
Take your ball and go home, kid. It’s not working.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 5:48 PM
see:
Your use of one adjective is a pretty flimsy argument.
Scrappy on August 24, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Khaled cheikh Mohammed had his children tortured with fire aunts
Now that I would believe.
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Yeah, who cares if the CIA threatens to murder children and rape mothers. And you accuse liberals of having skewed morals? Sheesh.
Grow Fins on August 24, 2009 at 5:12 PM
A threat is simply that, a threat. But, I can see where you would think that is much worse than lets say…oh I don’t know….CUTTING OFF SOMEONE’S HEAD!
Do everyone a favor and pull your bottom lip up over your head and swallow.
milwife88 on August 24, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Del Dolemonte,
Ya defund the entire CIA. Why can’t they be absorbed into the military. We don’t need a secret police.
Actually we don’t need a military either.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 5:49 PM
August 15th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Well, you won’t be seeing as much of acroso. He was accepted at open enrollment at Hot Air. Regular posters are already complaining about him. Give him 60 days and he will be banned and back.
semloh on August 24, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Except for Valerie Plame, of course.
Epic FAIL.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Really? I didn’t know his sisters were on fire. Oh, wait. It is Pakistan.
NathanG on August 24, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Spathi:
Maybe you are not a Democrat. Maybe you are not an American at all. I don’t know. But I do know that you are full of sh*t.
Excuse my language. Ladies should not talk that way, but sometimes it is the only way to get the point across.
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Now you’re not even making sense. You’re first sentnece says that KSM tortured his own children with the sisters of their parents to get his own location? Huh? And then somehow the CIA was involve though your own speculation? You get more bizzare with every post.
Scrappy on August 24, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Terrye,
I’m a Ron Paul voter. Start with the assumption that there is not a single piece of our federal government worth keeping, and then work back from there issue by issue.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 5:53 PM
LOL. I had a fire aunt once. She was a pain in the Spathi.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Actually we don’t need a military either.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 5:49 PM
See this is what happens when you marry your sister.
milwife88 on August 24, 2009 at 5:54 PM
9/11 was an inside job.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 5:55 PM
You shouldn’t make fun of yourself, there are plenty of people here willing to do that for you.
Scrappy on August 24, 2009 at 5:55 PM
So Spathi you believe that the world would be as well off or even better off if we hadn’t fought the Japanese and Germans in WWII?
chemman on August 24, 2009 at 5:58 PM
Del Dolemonte,
You said it not me.
I seriously doubt that, but not that the government isn’t evil though. It’s best to not let them have an intelligence agency or allow the president to have standing army anyway.
A strong National Defense is the States and militias having all the guns, and the president not getting any at all.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM
What a coinkydink. Sentnieces! Just kidding.
NathanG on August 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM
I thought he was a sperm bank.
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Chemman,
That’s not why we got involved though. FDR was trying antagonize the japanese with his China policy that pissed them off, and they attacked because of it.
That China policy got us Mao Tse Tung who probably killed 100 million so maybe he should not have been antagonizing the Japanese.
But I like to think of WW1 and 2 as the same war.
If we had not gotten involved in WW1, there would not have been a 2.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:02 PM
Hornet
That works too.
bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:04 PM
You know what they say about people who assume…..
If you truly believe this please leave the country now!!!!
You arrogance has no end and the only way to correct this is for you to enjoy your reduced freedoms in a country that has far less than the USA. You sit smug at your computer spouting on a blog all day and you can not comprehend the fact that what allows you to do this is we have the best military on the face of the planet.
rukiddingme on August 24, 2009 at 6:04 PM
CIA Supervisor Claimed He Used Fire Ants On Detainee
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:05 PM
He argues the same point, regardless of the topic. Boring.
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:05 PM
Good. I had a cousin who sat in a fire-ant bed when she was little and she’s just fine, except for that kinky hair!
NathanG on August 24, 2009 at 6:07 PM
rukiddingme,
No you leave the country please. I don’t mind that people disagree because that happens in places where we have Freedom of speech.
Jefferson was one of the better founders (maybe not technically one but he helped with the Bill of Rights so he gets counted) and he had the best view on not allowing the president to get a standing army.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Well, there’s some of your problem…stop getting yours news from the Huffington Post. Now, pull your head out and pay attention. I don’t give a damn what we are doing to terrorists, as long as it keeps me and mine safe.
We need a military because of a$$warts like yourself around the world.
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Hey Hornet. Did you know Reagan fought a fake war on drugs? Did ya? Did ya know Reagan was a faker? Did ya? Did ya know he was Satan’s younger brother? Did ya? Did ya did ya? :)
NathanG on August 24, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:05 PM
So what! I would have preferred the use of brown recluse spiders followed by a dose of rattlensnakes!
rukiddingme on August 24, 2009 at 6:09 PM
No, Ron Paul and his supporters said it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88x6JdfjwCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq_7251dqc8
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 6:10 PM
Why does anyone care what was done to these murdering pieces of crap?
darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:10 PM
I wasn’t aware that we fought Japan in World War 1.
Fail again.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 6:11 PM
He reminds of this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk9HN7AwlX0
NathanG on August 24, 2009 at 6:12 PM
We haven’t had a reasonably anti-government president since Grover Cleveland.
Everyone of them has made the government larger and more intrusive. Reagan even admitted that he had done this in his last speeches where he talked about his regrets.
The drug war is as fake as the terror war.
A government created problem trying to solve it’s own creation.
Ronald Reagan: An Autopsy
Notice that Bill Buckley, former CIA, hated Rothbard’s guts because he did not like Reagan and he did not support the empire and National Review’s socialist agenda.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:13 PM
Geeeez
I see what you mean Hornet.
bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:15 PM
No kidding. I knew there was something funny about that man, other than the fact that he was the best president evah! I think our little HA Sperm Bank, Spathi, needs to stop shaving his armpits, stop waxing his nethers and move to France.
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Bwahahaha, citing the Huffington Post won’t work here.
On those planes that hit the WTC Towers on 9/11 were many elementary school kids, heading out to California to have their intellectual curiousity about the world around them recognized by the National Geographic Society. They never made it.
Yet you’re more concerned about the welfare of the kids of the guy who planned their being turned into human missiles.
getalife.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Spathi has been saving up stuff just so he could hijack another thread. AP, can we have the Hammer soon, please?
kingsjester on August 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM
I think I will stay here thank you very much. I love my country and I love a good disagreement as well. But when you actually spout off about our military and tell people we do not need one, you have lost all credibility. It is the very apparatus that allows you to spout your insane drivel. Without the military and the sacrifices, you do not get to voice your opinion. See the difference?
rukiddingme on August 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM
LOL, citing Cindy Sheehan’s boyfriend won’t work here either. Please don’t insult our intelligence.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Del Dolemonte,
We created the punitive Treaty of versailles, which somewhat caused the massive inflation and political turmoil in Germany in the 1920′s.
The primary campaign pledge of the National Socialist movement was to repeal the Treaty of Versailles, which they did. That’s why some see WW1 and 2 as a continuation of the same war.
But I admit I still haven’t read Buchanan’s The Unnecessary war, but I bet it’s good.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Don’t forget a swarm of mosquitos, a band of scorpions, followed up by a nest of black widows. Oh, and then, a picture of Hillary Clinton in a thong….
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM
The Hornet in the house! What’s up Hornet? Haven’t seen your posts for a few days.
elduende on August 24, 2009 at 6:18 PM
and a bag of angry king Cobra’s…
bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:18 PM
Oh, and then, a picture of Hillary Clinton in a thong….
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Dear Lord, Sweetness. We all could have done without that image.
kingsjester on August 24, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Okay Hornet- you crossed the line with Hillary in a thong
LOL-
bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Hey Elduende, I was taking care of my mom after surgery…but I’m back. Looks like this is getting more and more fun, pass the popcorn…..
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:19 PM
That image right there is enough to drive any sane person…insane. I will need therapy now.
rukiddingme on August 24, 2009 at 6:20 PM
While he’s at it, ban Simplesimon for trashing that soldier.
NathanG on August 24, 2009 at 6:20 PM
So does this mean Holder is going to prosecute the Obama administration now?
JeffinSac on August 24, 2009 at 6:20 PM
Am glad to hear your mom is doing better. You’ve been missed.
elduende on August 24, 2009 at 6:20 PM
rukiddingme,
Spout off?
What do you mean. All I said is we need to defund the U.S. military. They can be integrated into the Governors National Guard units as a transition period.
That way the governors have the standing armies, but the president does not get one.
This also allows for the States to nullify the Supreme Court ruling so that we can restore the original American republican.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:21 PM
No, that was a creation of all of the victorous countries. Not just the US. And remember, one of the victors in World War 1 was the Japansese.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 6:22 PM
The Germans didn’t start WW1.
Now all you need to do is explain why Japan decided to invade everyone in sight, or were they subject to the Versailles Treaty too?
Bishop on August 24, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Please….please, I’d like the stinging insect. Please take the picture away PAAAAALLLLEEEEAASSSEEEE! I can hear the cries of pain all the way from Gitmo.
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Ron Paul even dedicated his Minneapolis convention to the concept of restoring the Republican.
Tom Woods had a great speech there too.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:23 PM
Thanks. I missed you guys too…I was jonesin’ for some HA.
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:23 PM
Spathi:
Actually Wilson thought that Treaty was too arbitrary, but our enlightened allies did not agree.
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Bishop,
A the Japanese attacked the U.S. primarily because they were angry over our China policy.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:24 PM
And I think you and your sister are the only one’s that were there…who cares, huff post.
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:25 PM
The USS Enterprise is going to look pretty stupid trying to steam its way to Kansas for reassignment, or is any sort of blue-water navy to be abolished?
Bishop on August 24, 2009 at 6:25 PM
Terrye,
Really? I thought Wilson supported the treaty? Regardless the fighting was at a stand still until we entered with no clear victory in WW1.
So I think a non-interventionist foreign policy is the way to go. Also every time there is a war, it allows a dictator like FDR to enact all new government powers that never go away and allows the welfare-warfare state to become entrenched.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:27 PM
So Hillary is an asset after all…
bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:27 PM
Spathis wants us to defund the US military. hmmmmm, maybe someone needs to check out his IP address.
BTW, the US military has fed, clothed, sheltered, rescued and provided medical care and attention to more people than any EU country or even the UN has. The UN in fact is dependent on the big bad US for its very existence.
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 6:27 PM
What in the name of Dow Jones and all His Little Averages does World Wat I, II, and Ron Paul have to do with Obama continuing the policy of Rendition? Spathi has hijacked another thread.
kingsjester on August 24, 2009 at 6:27 PM
Yet the U.S. and Japan were defacto allies during WW1; how is WW2, with Japan and America at war, a continuation of the Great War?
You can only concentrate on one nation, Germany, to show any sort of continuity, while every other important metric is conveniently discarded.
Anyhoo, that’s enough for me on this OT.
Bishop on August 24, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Spathi:
Yes, Wilson was concerned about the long term effects of the Treaty..for all the good it did him.
But I think it would be a mistake to blame too many of the developments in Europe on that Treaty, the war itself was far more devastating.
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 6:29 PM
Spathi:
And the US was concerned about the fact that Japan was threatening the entire Pacific theater. Their treatment of the people of China was horrible. They actually used biological weapons on those villagers when they poisoned their water systems.
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 6:30 PM
More than one poster pointed to the likelihood of Operation Change the Focus..We’re Circling The Drain last week, wondering what the topic would be. Well, here it is…..BOOOSH….BOOOOSH!!
Damn!!..get a new schtick already.
Itchee Dryback on August 24, 2009 at 6:31 PM
Bishop:
Well, and all those pesky subs will have to by the wayside.
Terrye on August 24, 2009 at 6:31 PM
Itchee Dryback on August 24, 2009 at 6:31 PM
Yp. Blaming Boooosh is way past the “getting old” point, Now it is just pathetic.
kingsjester on August 24, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Yp=Yep
kingsjester on August 24, 2009 at 6:33 PM
ASSet Indeed.
HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Terrye,
But it was Wilson who tipped the scales against the Germans. There was no winner and there would be no treaty Versailes without a clear one-sided victory.
Not that anyone understood what would happen at the time, but at a minimum you have to realize that an interventionist foreign policy creates all sorts of unintended consequences (like overthrowing Iran’s governments or having Reagan arm Saddam with WMD.) It also creates an excuse for the government to exist and enlarge.
from wiki
If he was that opposed, I wonder why he signed it?
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM
4 walls is 3 too many for terrorists in my eyes.
jhffmn on August 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Does Spathi = MarktheGreat he has the same MO and same opinion of himself (see COLA thread)?
HoustonRight on August 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Epic fail. The Pearl Harbor attack was to neutralize our fleet so the Japanese could attack Malaysia and the Dutch East Indies.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 6:44 PM
Wow!
The world must seem confusing to someone so naive..not that theres anything wrong with that, but damn
Itchee Dryback on August 24, 2009 at 6:45 PM
wiki’s own founder says it’s not a reliable reference source.
Del Dolemonte on August 24, 2009 at 6:45 PM
Itchee Dryback,
You can’t nullify Supreme Court rulings so long as the president is more heavily armed then his people. Interpreting the Constitution needs to be three ways just like interpretation of any contract would be.
If you hire someone to help you work on your house, you can fire him if you like. Also if he doesn’t like you or you aren’t paying and holding up to your end of the bargain, then he can just leave.
But when you give all the authority to the Supreme Court, and it has a giant military-industrial complex to enforce its decisions, then it becomes one-way.
Spathi on August 24, 2009 at 6:51 PM
I don’t much care what these sub-human, camel-scrubbing, illiterate 7th Century barbarians were threatened with.
Then again, we could have just treated them just like the out-of-uniform enemy combatants we ran across during WWII, and just thrown them up against a post and shot them.
Dave R. on August 24, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Great, this will come to a head just in time for the 2010 election cycle, putting an exclaimation point on the tag that democrats are soft on terror and national defense.
Zorro on August 24, 2009 at 7:01 PM
The fact that you guys are going to prosecute your own intelligence operatives because they tried to ‘scare’ the mass murderer KSM by threatening him is astounding to me!? That’s not moral high ground, it’s just stupidity.
Why don’t you just give them lollipops & pizzas, and arrange for them to stay at Club Med? better yet.. The Lincoln Bedroom? This overblown ridiculous humanity for a mass murderer who killed 3000 Americans, its offensive to me – I can only imagine many of you Americans must be pulling your hair out!
This is a guy who needs to be thrown off the side of the Grand Canyon..
saus on August 24, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Not even close. You have exposed yourself as an idiot.
CWforFreedom on August 24, 2009 at 7:05 PM
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