How many uninsured in the US?

posted at 6:25 pm on August 24, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Exactly a month ago, Michael Ramirez presented this data in an excellent editorial cartoon, but the news media didn’t pay attention.  AEI covered the same ground in its August 2008 edition of The American, and the national media still hasn’t caught up.  Unfortunately, they will probably not pay much attention to Jazz Shaw, Cato Institute, or Hot Air and Ed Morrissey either when we point out that the number of uninsured Americans is dramatically lower than the 47 million figure bandied about in the debate.

Do you think they’d listen to the Census Bureau?  Jazz writes:

Next, we need to go back to the Census Bureau report and turn to page 31 where we are informed that their total number includes the category of those who are listed as “non-citizens” (which are carefully broken out from naturalized citizens vs. native born citizens.) The non-citizen rate of uninsured individuals clocked in at 43.8%, or roughly 9.4 million non-Americans. Since these people are not here legally and not paying into the system, that portion of the crisis is better addressed in a debate on immigration issues, but taxpaying Americans don’t need to be on the hook for that segment of the total.

While the number continues to drop, it’s also worth noting that we’re not talking exclusively about the abject poor who can’t afford insurance. As this Business and Media report informs us, that same Census Bureau summary includes the following:

But according to the same Census report, there are 8.3 million uninsured people who make between $50,000 and $74,999 per year and 8.74 million who make more than $75,000 a year. That’s roughly 17 million people who ought to be able to “afford” health insurance because they make substantially more than the median household income of $46,326.

Once you do some fairly basic math, you come up with the same figure that the Kaiser Family Foundation arrived at.

The liberal Kaiser Family Foundation puts the number of uninsured Americans who don’t qualify for government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 8.2 million and 13.9 million.

Assuming we bought individual health insurance plans for each of these people at $300 per month, a cost that having a 14-million-member pool should allow.  We could insure them for $50.4 billion a year.  That would not be a very good solution for a number of reasons, but it costs  a lot less than the $2 trillion over ten years that the CBO estimates ObamaCare will cost, plus it avoids the entire issue of overhauling a system most of us like.  In fact, if the idea is to save money through ObamaCare, then this should be the baseline: any plan Congress creates should cost less than the $50.4 billion a year it would cost to simply buy insurance for everyone who can’t afford it.

Besides, as the Census Bureau admits, its own numbers of uninsured may be inflated (page 67):

National surveys and health insurance coverage

Health insurance coverage is likely to be underreported on the Current Population Survey (CPS). While underreporting affects most, if not all, surveys, underreporting of health insurance coverage in the Annual Social and Economic Supplement (ASEC) appears to be a larger problem than in other national surveys that ask about insurance. Some reasons for the disparity may include the fact that income, not health insurance, is the main focus of the ASEC questionnaire. In addition, the ASEC collects health insurance information by asking in February through April about the previous year’s coverage… Compared with other national surveys, the CPS estimate of the number of people without health insurance more closely approximates the number of people who are uninsured at a specific point in time during the year than the number of people uninsured for the entire year.

It’s not 47 million.  It’s not 36 million.  The number of Americans uninsured out of necessity and not economic choice is at most 14 million.  Understanding that will bring a much more balanced approach to health-care reform on a scale commensurate with the problem, rather than a hysterical rush to throw out a system that works for hundreds of millions Americans.

Blowback

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Comment pages: 1 2

Headline:
Obama cuts number needing insurance to 14 million!

redshirt on August 24, 2009 at 6:31 PM

pwned

jhffmn on August 24, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Even taking the illegals into the mix and paying for their unearned healthcare….we would be well short of the $2trillion.

This is and always has been about growing government and political payback….sickening

Ditkaca on August 24, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Silly Ed. The truth does not matter. Math is racist. Get on board the collectivization bandwagon or no free government cheese for you.

elduende on August 24, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Ramirez cartoon by itself:
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/CARTOONS/toon072409.gif

CPL 310 on August 24, 2009 at 6:33 PM

AnninCA is weeping

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:34 PM

Nothing new here. Democrats doing what they always do. Lying about some “dire” necessity so they can make a power grab of another important part of the American economy.

Webrider on August 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM

How about those that can afford insurance and choose to gamble?

Hening on August 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM

Even with Ogabe’s numbers, he still admits that OgabeScare would leave millions of people without proper healthcare after ten years.

Bishop on August 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM

Uh oh. Look for Comprehensive Immigration Reform to rear its ugly head sooner than expected.

I’m with elduende….don’t let facts get in the way of a good crisis.

HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 6:36 PM

“Shut up, ” Obama explained.

PackerBronco on August 24, 2009 at 6:36 PM

Ah, Ed. It’s not about facts n logic. It’s about POWER.

locomotivebreath1901 on August 24, 2009 at 6:37 PM

If you make under 80K you are poor, you have nothing…

You now have cash for appliances, terminal Death Panels, and good health care for illegals.

what could go wrong?

upinak on August 24, 2009 at 6:38 PM

Is this why ObamaCare won’t cover all 47 million people who aren’t insured.

SlaveDog on August 24, 2009 at 6:39 PM

There are a lot of assumptions with those numbers. The biggest being that all those without insurance can actually get insurance. With pre-existing coverage limitations among others there are a lot of people who are simply uninsurable. 17m people were cut out of the equation because they can “afford it” without any serious look at what it would cost. This is also household data, so three young people making $30k a year in NYC count as being able to afford it.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

Government: You need TARP

American public: NO

Government: You need stimulus

American public: NO

Government: You need Cap & Tax

American public: NO

Government: You need Government health care

American public: NO

Is there any question what response Obama will get to amnesty and whatever else he tries to pull on us?

Will these guys ever get the hint?

I think the answer is NO.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

OT: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

elduende on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

It’s not 12.6 illegal aliens……….

……… the dirty little secret is that it’s closer to 35 – 40 million illegal aliens in this country.

Most with ‘health insurance’…………

………. it’s called the Emergency Room.

And the borders are still not secured…….

Seven Percent Solution on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

Thanks Ed. Good post.

Christian Conservative on August 24, 2009 at 6:42 PM

With pre-existing coverage limitations among others there are a lot of people who are simply uninsurable.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

That’s a lie. You can insure anything, and there’s a wide range of “pre-existing” conditions. It’s not a catch all.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM

This is why we need free health care so all of these poor people making above $75,000 can keep their BMW’s.

Howcome on August 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM

Wait until acorn gets done with the census, then there will be 150 to 250 million uninsured.

fourdeucer on August 24, 2009 at 6:44 PM

If you make under 80K you are poor, you have nothing…

You now have cash for appliances, terminal Death Panels, and good health care for illegals.

what could go wrong?

upinak on August 24, 2009 at 6:38 PM

$80k can certainly be enough to buy insurance for a young healthy person, but if you’ve had a serious illness in your past or are currently sick insurance companies won’t insure you even if you can afford what a healthy person would pay. On top of that, these figures are for household income–which includes roommates. There are plenty of young people without insurance but with roommates who under this data look like they could afford it but in reality cannot.

tl;dr while there are certainly people out there who can afford to buy insurance and don’t, it’s not cut and dry based on the Census data.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Seven Percent Solution on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

This health care bill is directed specifically towards those millions of illegals in my opinion.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Headline:
Obama cuts number needing insurance to 14 million!

redshirt on August 24, 2009 at 6:31 PM

That will never, ever, happen. For one, they’re habitual liars: they already knew the numbers were grossly inflated. And two, the word “cut” is not found in the DNC dictionary.

Rod on August 24, 2009 at 6:44 PM

I worked for a national company and was in charge of handling the benefits for our new hires. Many young people waived coverage even though the company supplied a very nice contribution. Young and bullet proof and more concerned about their play money, so not important.

My experience.

bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:45 PM

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:44 PM

You do realize I was being Facetious… right?

upinak on August 24, 2009 at 6:46 PM

That’s a lie. You can insure anything, and there’s a wide range of “pre-existing” conditions. It’s not a catch all.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM

Get really sick (leukemia would be a good start) and then go and try to buy insurance. You’ll be flatly rejected. Luckily that $80k your household has can pay for your healthcare though–just trade in the 3 series.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:46 PM

Will these guys ever get the hint?

I think the answer is NO.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

I get what you’re saying but…

Obama: We need to re-make America.

Voters: Yes we can!

GOP: You don’t want a Democrat Congress with a lefty president.

Voters: Yes we do!

Government: We have a mandate.

myrenovations on August 24, 2009 at 6:47 PM

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Why don’t you get all your liberal friends together, start a national fund for people who won’t/can’t buy insurance, donate … and buy them insurance?

With the millions of supposedly “caring” liberals in this country … including the very, very wealthy in Hollywood and Wall Street you should have no problem getting enough donations to buy insurance for people.

You want it … you pay for it. Problem solved!

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:47 PM

You do realize I was being Facetious… right?

upinak on August 24, 2009 at 6:46 PM

Of course. My point being that the numbers don’t mean a whole lot–$80k can either be enough or not nearly enough. Household income isn’t a great measure of personal health insurance affordability. And even personal income isn’t a great measure, it depends greatly on your personal health.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:48 PM

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:48 PM

The maybe you should go check on what is considered middle class. I am sure you would be shocked and awed on what has changed.

I may have been fecetious, but what I said was pretty true.

upinak on August 24, 2009 at 6:49 PM

They do the the same damned thing with the poverty total (37 million or 39 million). And they automatically jack it up 2M every year. Heritage Foundation (Rector) did a nice job of debunking U.S. poverty myths three years ago. Of course the media took no notice.

whitetop on August 24, 2009 at 6:49 PM

Of course. My point being that the numbers don’t mean a whole lot–$80k can either be enough or not nearly enough.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:48 PM

So, you would agree that in some instances a household making $251,000 might not be the evil rich?

myrenovations on August 24, 2009 at 6:50 PM

I’d think it obvious, you cannot have an EMERGENCY! if you’re only talking about 5% of the population.
Besides, it would make it difficult to HIDE where you put the rest of the money set aside for those 47 MILLION.

GarandFan on August 24, 2009 at 6:51 PM

My experience.

bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:45 PM

Hi, Baz; it’s always nicer when you’re here.

massrighty on August 24, 2009 at 6:51 PM

Get really sick (leukemia would be a good start) and then go and try to buy insurance. You’ll be flatly rejected. Luckily that $80k your household has can pay for your healthcare though–just trade in the 3 series.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:46 PM

I doubt it. You’d pay higher premiums, but you could get insurance. However, the time to prioritize buying health insurance is before you might get sick. If people are concerned then shelter, food and health should be their top priorities when making a budget.

Secondly, where the hell are the thousands of charities and foundations that constantly beg for money? There’s a charity and foundation for virtually every disease and ailment. Isn’t that what they’re for? To help people?

Where are they?

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:52 PM

massrighty on August 24, 2009 at 6:51 PM

Blushing

bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:53 PM

Don’t believe your lying ears!

Green Muse on August 24, 2009 at 6:53 PM

To me it’s all about generating revenue for the Feds – can you imagine $100 or $200 per person per month forced to pay into a Government fund and then – holds back payments to Doctors and Hospitals because of paperwork issues – i have seen it happen – not necessarily on purpose per say but because nobody can or will make a decision – just like cars for clunkers , dealers are swamped with paperwork that has to be repeatedly submitted hoping to get paid .

wheels on August 24, 2009 at 6:53 PM

But, Ed, why spend 50 BILLION a year to solve a problem when you can spend 200 BILLION or more a year with the added benefit of controlling every aspect of the lives of your plebes… and assure your control forever?

TXUS on August 24, 2009 at 6:55 PM

it’s not cut and dry based on the Census data.

cut and dried is a term of art in the tobacco business.

You’re not in favor of the noxious weed, are you?

massrighty on August 24, 2009 at 6:55 PM

wheels on August 24, 2009 at 6:53 PM

dealers are swamped with paperwork that has to be repeatedly submitted hoping to get paid .

Talked to my doc recently and that is why she doesn’t take medicaid.

bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 6:56 PM

I doubt it. You’d pay higher premiums, but you could get insurance. However, the time to prioritize buying health insurance is before you might get sick. If people are concerned then shelter, food and health should be their top priorities when making a budget.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 6:52 PM

In theory you could get coverage (for tens of thousands monthly), but not in practice. Even if you already had coverage it’s fairly easy with something like leukemia to hit the maximum annual and then maximum lifetime payout. Once you do that you’re on your own. It’s a good business practice and is perfectly legal, insuring someone so sick is a huge cost.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:57 PM

Even if you already had coverage it’s fairly easy with something like leukemia to hit the maximum annual and then maximum lifetime payout. Once you do that you’re on your own. It’s a good business practice and is perfectly legal, insuring someone so sick is a huge cost.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:57 PM

How long do you expect government coverage to keep paying for quality care for the people with leukemia?

myrenovations on August 24, 2009 at 6:59 PM

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:57 PM
How long do you expect government coverage to keep paying for quality care for the people with leukemia?

myrenovations on August 24, 2009 at 6:59 PM

I’ll be surprised if this question gets forthrightly answered.

massrighty on August 24, 2009 at 7:00 PM

I don’t understand why George Soros just doesn’t start his own health insurance company for people who won’t/can’t get it. I mean, he could do everything the government wants to do … cover pre-existing conditions, offer portability, cover illegals, ration care.

In fact, there are thousands of filthy rich liberals in this country. Why can’t they start their own insurance company to deal with the 47 million they say exist?

Don’t they care enough to do that?

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Yup, I have been saying all along that Obama could just go to kp.org website and sign up everyone who wants insurance but can’t afford it for much cheaper than creating an entire bureaucracy that does basically the same thing.

crosspatch on August 24, 2009 at 7:01 PM

A plan that has the potential to save money?

That doesn’t help with the whole control and power they want, never happens.

jukin on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

*Roll that TAPE Mable!*

Only 20 years ago – sure does lQQk topical today though doesn’t it?

‘Buried In The Archives,’ The Original Town-Hall Battle

Katfish on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

How long do you expect government coverage to keep paying for quality care for the people with leukemia?

myrenovations on August 24, 2009 at 6:59 PM

For as long as the attending physician and patient would like. I think that’s what anybody in that position would like. It doesn’t matter who operates the plan–private plans can be regulated to not be able to drop patients for medical reasons or apply pre-existing limitation exemptions (both of which HR 2300 accomplishes).

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

In fact, there are thousands of filthy rich liberals in this country. Why can’t they start their own insurance company to deal with the 47 million they say exist?

Don’t they care enough to do that?

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Soros, Gates, Buffett;
It’s a start.
(Warren or Jimmy – both have $$)

massrighty on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

I dare say I am one of the 8.74 million that makes more than $74k a year and doesn’t have insurance. I am the only one of my family of 6 (soon to be 7) that doesn’t have insurance. And honestly I don’t need it. I am in my mid-30s and don’t get sick (flu and the like), don’t smoke, don’t do risky stuff and rarely consumes adult beverages.

I am more worried about my older girls getting braces, my 2 /12 yo twins growing healthy out of the “terrible twos” and the soon-to-be LAST CHILD WE WILL HAVE, REALLY to be born as healthy as possible (and mom to be healthy as possible this last pregnancy too).

Unless I get hit by a buss or a meteor strikes northwest Austin I am gonna live for a long time yet.

Neo on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

For as long as the attending physician and patient would like.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

If you truly believe this, I pity you.

myrenovations on August 24, 2009 at 7:04 PM

In theory you could get coverage (for tens of thousands monthly), but not in practice. Even if you already had coverage it’s fairly easy with something like leukemia to hit the maximum annual and then maximum lifetime payout. Once you do that you’re on your own. It’s a good business practice and is perfectly legal, insuring someone so sick is a huge cost.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:57 PM

So get your buddies together and pay for it. You want it … you pay for it. Start something, get off your a$$ if you’re so concerned.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:04 PM

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

Those are all good points, but the summation is that there isn’t enough data to know what the problem is, or how effective the “solution” will be. So, maybe — just maybe — we should wait to get better data instead of enacting in two months a 1,000-page bill nobody has read?

Socratease on August 24, 2009 at 7:05 PM

Amateurs, I can make up numbers in my head too. I am thinking of a number between 0 and 50 what is Obama’s approval rating:)

Dr Evil on August 24, 2009 at 7:06 PM

I dare say I am one of the 8.74 million that makes more than $74k a year and doesn’t have insurance.

Neo on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

I wish you a lifetime of good health. I also hope our government does not force you to purchase something against your will.

myrenovations on August 24, 2009 at 7:06 PM

Don’t they care enough to do that?

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:01 PM

The guy who profited off of the economy collapse?

For as long as the attending physician and patient would like. I think that’s what anybody in that position would like.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

Well, sure. I mean, everyone would like to get a million dollars too. Where does this “golden rule” stop?

Esthier on August 24, 2009 at 7:08 PM

So, maybe — just maybe — we should wait to get better data instead of enacting in two months a 1,000-page bill nobody has read?

Socratease on August 24, 2009 at 7:05 PM

But … if we do that the unions won’t get the $10 billion pay back that’s in the bill.

Neither will ACORN.

Can we allow that?

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:08 PM

Amateurs, I can make up numbers in my head too. I am thinking of a number between 0 and 50 what is Obama’s approval rating:)

Dr Evil on August 24, 2009 at 7:06 PM

1.
And, not an amateur….you are evil ‘lite’. ^^

HornetSting on August 24, 2009 at 7:08 PM

Jonknee …when are you going to start your own pool of money for such people? Time for you to give. You liberals are so loving.

CWforFreedom on August 24, 2009 at 7:08 PM

The number of Americans uninsured out of necessity and not economic choice is at most 14 million. Understanding that will bring a much more balanced approach to health-care reform on a scale commensurate with the problem, rather than a hysterical rush to throw out a system that works for hundreds of millions Americans.

And if the President cared more about his country than himself that would be true.

He doesn’t.

Speakup on August 24, 2009 at 7:09 PM

you know, i am as right wing & anti-obamacare as the rest of you. but there is something to what jonknee says.

i was diagnosed with MS, then the diagnosis went to “not sure”. anyway, i couldn’t qualify for long term care insurance at a price that my husband & i thought we could afford.

when you max out on your health insurance or can’t get insurance because of a really bad pre-existing condition, leukemia being a prime example, then you might need to check into Mayo or St jude’s for the duration.

kelley in virginia on August 24, 2009 at 7:10 PM

Jonknee …when are you going to start your own pool of money for such people? Time for you to give. You liberals are so loving.

CWforFreedom on August 24, 2009 at 7:08 PM

I know! There’s so many rich liberals out there they could do something tomorrow!

I always thought they cared.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:10 PM

Neo on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM
I wish you a lifetime of good health. I also hope our government does not force you to purchase something against your will.

myrenovations on August 24, 2009 at 7:06 PM

But, you will submit to mandatory care. Like it or not, need it or not.

That’s the sad part; you will go from a living example of the free market at work (“I choose not to buy this!) to just another person forced to submit, and to pay.

massrighty on August 24, 2009 at 7:10 PM

Well, sure. I mean, everyone would like to get a million dollars too. Where does this “golden rule” stop?

Esthier on August 24, 2009 at 7:08 PM

I thought the GOP was against death panels? When would you cut off a leukemia patient?

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:11 PM

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

If one is young, making $30K and living in NYC, they are probably sleeping in a bathtub and eating peanut three times a day in an effort to make it big in the world’s most exciting city. This is a choice, not a mandatory lifestyle. Of course insurance is unaffordable under those conditions but should not be the responsibility of your fellow citizens to pay for one’s insurance coverage while they whoop it up in the Big Apple.

sherry on August 24, 2009 at 7:11 PM

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:10 PM

I picked up on your previous posts and noticed “Mr. Let someone else do it” did not respond so I asked again.

CWforFreedom on August 24, 2009 at 7:12 PM

I dare say I am one of the 8.74 million that makes more than $74k a year and doesn’t have insurance.

Neo on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

I don’t make more than $74k, but my husband and I could also afford insurance if we wanted it. Our work doesn’t offer anything, and most of our health needs are taken care of by relatively cheap clinics nearby.

Esthier on August 24, 2009 at 7:12 PM

kelley in virginia on August 24, 2009 at 7:10 PM

I’m sorry to hear that. But a tough question. Should that require government involvement?

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:13 PM

Couldn’t we just send these uninsured bozo’s the VA Death Pamphlet and let nature take it’s course?

/ obama

DrW on August 24, 2009 at 7:15 PM

kelley in virginia on August 24, 2009 at 7:10 PM

There is also something in what you say; especially as it is borne out of your own experience. I don’t think most of us here are so heartless that we don’t feel for those among us who are suffering.
We just don’t want to base public policy on how we feel, or how much comapassion we have for those of us who have been unlucky.

When we invite rational discussions, we often get called heartless, or worse.

massrighty on August 24, 2009 at 7:15 PM

darwin: no.

but i was making a point that jonknee himself had a point. but yall solved jonknee’s problem: you suggested that the big libs pony up money to help the uninsured. actually, that is what Americans do.

why don’t these rich people give money to the hospitals & churches rather than the “community organizers”?

kelley in virginia on August 24, 2009 at 7:15 PM

I thought the GOP was against death panels? When would you cut off a leukemia patient?

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:11 PM

It’s also against paying someone else’s bills. I wouldn’t start off supporting a leukemia patient. What you’re asking is akin to “when would you stop beating your child?”

You seem to be forgetting whose money will be used for this. Why should I have to pay for someone else’s problem? If it’s my family or a friend, or even someone I’m contacted about through a charity, I get it. But to take my money from me by force to use for other people who didn’t plan better, is not in any way consistent with the values of individual freedom.

Esthier on August 24, 2009 at 7:15 PM

I love people like Jonknee. First its a crisis b/c soooooo many people are “uninsured”, when those numbers are proven wrong, the numbers don’t matter. As long as one person possibly has a sob story, then we MUST socialize health care.

Somehow, I think they have the goal – i.e., socialism – and they work backward from that looking for rationals. It never seems to bother them each time they are caught in a lie.

Monkeytoe on August 24, 2009 at 7:16 PM

kelley in virginia on August 24, 2009 at 7:10 PM

He does have a point as far as pre-ex but that is a slice of a very large pie we are talking about here.

Instead of looking at solutions to relevant concerns, it has been misconstrued to create another “crisis” and govt takeover.

bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 7:16 PM

I thought the GOP was against death panels? When would you cut off a leukemia patient?

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:11 PM

With the literally thousands of charities and foundations out there … I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone who is “cut off”.

Find me one person who doesn’t recieve the treatment they need, or one charity or foundation who will turn someone down.

As a last resort there’s always the millions of rich liberals out there who from everything I’ve heard … really care a lot. They could do something.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:16 PM

I thought the GOP was against death panels? When would you cut off a leukemia patient?

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:11 PM

Did you start that special fund. I know you care

CWforFreedom on August 24, 2009 at 7:17 PM

why don’t these rich people give money to the hospitals & churches rather than the “community organizers”?

kelley in virginia on August 24, 2009 at 7:15 PM

Exactly. They’re far more efficient with your money anyway.

Esthier on August 24, 2009 at 7:17 PM

JonKnee (info: Upinak). I suggest that the people jonknee is talking about get out of their $3ooK – $400K house and their $2500/mo mortgage payment, sell their volvo or BMW, and use the savings on a $500 health insurance policy. Better yet, just go to a major medical policy. (for you immortals).
As far as preexisting conditions when you leave an employer or retire, check into the HIPPA rules. It is not just about privacy.

Old Country Boy on August 24, 2009 at 7:18 PM

why don’t these rich people give money to the hospitals & churches rather than the “community organizers”?

kelley in virginia on August 24, 2009 at 7:15 PM

Like I’ve said, there are millions of rich liberals. They can easily set up something to handle these types of cases … but they won’t. Just like everything else they get us to pay for it.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:19 PM

And, I have yet to hear a true story about someone with leukemia, where it was not a pre-existing condition, suddenly having their insurance run out.

I’m sure it happens, but to hear the libs tell it, everyone who gets sick suddenly loses their insurance. I’ve known 3 cancer survivors, and each one’s insurance paid the bills all the way through. Of course, they were smart enough to get health insurance before they got sick.

But in a lib’s world, personal responsibility counts for naught. We should just socialize everything. No need for anyone to make their own decisions and pay for their own mistakes.

Monkeytoe on August 24, 2009 at 7:19 PM

He does have a point as far as pre-ex but that is a slice of a very large pie we are talking about here.

bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 7:16 PM

And many Republicans have proposed plans to help those with pre-existing conditions get health insurance. We do need health insurance reform. There’s just no reason to bring Big Brother into it.

Esthier on August 24, 2009 at 7:20 PM

You seem to be forgetting whose money will be used for this. Why should I have to pay for someone else’s problem? If it’s my family or a friend, or even someone I’m contacted about through a charity, I get it. But to take my money from me by force to use for other people who didn’t plan better, is not in any way consistent with the values of individual freedom.

Esthier on August 24, 2009 at 7:15 PM

The same could be said for all other socialized services. Why should I be forced to pay for firemen when I’m very careful to not cause a fire? I don’t have kids but I still pay for schools. Etc etc.

I understand what you’re saying, but to me it’s just wrong that I can get sick tomorrow and be dropped from the insurance I pay for (self-employed), bankrupted and then at the mercy of charities. That’s the last thing something who’s sick should face. That doesn’t mean we should have government pay for it all, but the current system is broken.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:21 PM

Esthier on August 24, 2009 at 7:20 PM

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

bazil9 on August 24, 2009 at 7:21 PM

elduende on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM

I have a hard time with it showing that the collective medical debt in the US is over 300 trillion.

boomer on August 24, 2009 at 7:23 PM

I understand what you’re saying, but to me it’s just wrong that I can get sick tomorrow and be dropped from the insurance I pay for (self-employed), bankrupted and then at the mercy of charities.

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:21 PM

Well then make sure your insurance contract specifies it won’t drop you if you get sick.

See? That was easy.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:23 PM

As for pre-existing conditions, we don’t expect home owner’s insurance or car insurance to pay out if you buy the policy AFTER you’ve had the accident. Why would we expect health care insurer’s to issue a policy and pay for an illness when you had it before you purchased the policy?

Insurance, by definition, is buying into a pool IN CASE something happens. So, it is asinine to expect an INSURANCE COMPANY to agree to take someone on and pay for an illness AFTER the illness happened.

Doesn’t anyone even understand what insurance is?

Monkeytoe on August 24, 2009 at 7:23 PM

jonknee on August 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

I want to know the source of the banana peels you are smoking. It has to be the best s..t on the market.

chemman on August 24, 2009 at 7:23 PM

Old Country Boy on August 24, 2009 at 7:18 PM

If you don’t let them peek into your records don’t you think they will think twice about insuring you?

boomer on August 24, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Serious people have known about the census figures. When you game the argument by lying/exaggerating the numbers by 400% hoping for the cheap emotional/guilt vote, akin to cap and trade, the public given time will call you out.

patrick neid on August 24, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Jonknee,

You are arguing a really pathetic straw man. Insurance can only drop you once you get sick if you bought the policy through fraud – i.e., not disclosing a pre-existing illness.

there is no crisis of people being dropped b/c they get sick.

Monkeytoe on August 24, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Doesn’t anyone even understand what insurance is?

Monkeytoe on August 24, 2009 at 7:23 PM

Most of us … yes. jonknee … yes too but he doesn’t care. He wants to soak you and then have the government control your life anyway.

darwin on August 24, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Those 14 million people are going to be royally pissed.

Today, they get health care for $0.

If ObamasScare passes, they will have deductables and co-pays.

Has anybody told them that?

notagool on August 24, 2009 at 7:26 PM

Monkeytoe on August 24, 2009 at 7:23 PM

I agree for the most part. But, what happens if my wife looses her job through no fault of her own and I can’t get insurance to cover my currently existing condition? I had insurance to cover it but, through no fault of our own it was lost. What then?

boomer on August 24, 2009 at 7:27 PM

Nothing new here. Democrats doing what they always do. Lying about some “dire” necessity so they can make a power grab of another important part of the American economy.

Webrider on August 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM

But…but…that doesn’t mean Global Warming is fake. It could still be true. The ice caps could still melt and flood NYC, and you can’t prove that it won’t happen. /

Geochelone on August 24, 2009 at 7:27 PM

boomer on August 24, 2009 at 7:27 PM

I guess I should have mentioned I’m insured through her employer.

boomer on August 24, 2009 at 7:27 PM

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