What Knittle failed to cost in terms of damage to the environment was the destruction of the “trickle down” effect that trading in “clunkers” as working vehicles would have had on the nationwide fleet economy. Those poor who drive don’t generally drive cars less than 10 years old. We’ve just destroyed a bunch of perfectly good working vehicles (like the famous late model Volvo “clunker” destroyed on YouTube) which get far better gas mileage than the “clunkers” the poor drive which are not eligible for the program. In the interests of buoying Government Motors and its unions, we have concocted a program in which the poor and the rich pay for yuppies to upgrade their vehicles, while at the same time damaging the ecology and the economy. So, when you libs crow about thanking us all for your new car, think of the poor person who would have been happy to upgrade their vehicle to your “clunker”, and realize that it isn’t us who will be paying for your car, it’s our unborn children and their children who will pay the bill.

“People will be driving more fuel-efficient cars, will be taking CO2 out of the air,” said LaHood. “This is a win-win for the environment, for the economy, for the automobile industry and for people who work in the industry.”

I wonder what the CO2 these engines pull out of the air is turned into?

Yeah…that’ll help…

/sarc>

Prediction: Watch for the crying and whining from the auto workers and car dealers (the ones which survive the not-getting-paid-for-clunkers fiasco) later this year when even bigger layoffs happen. Maybe then they’ll want the government to buy all of us new cars whether we want them or not!

Nice job, Zero. I bought a vehicle that puts out more carbon AND I still have the other to give to one of my kids in a couple of years or to someone else.

Carmax was busier than any of the new car dealers that I visited last week.

Also, the $4500 is like a Stimulus Check, it gets taxed as income

jp on August 24, 2009 at 4:21 PM

No, kidding? Taxed as income, huh? I’m shocked. SHOCKED, I TELL YOU!!!

But I don’t believe that it JUST pulled sales ahead. I believe that it transformed some used-car shoppers into new-car buyers.

Owen Glendower on August 24, 2009 at 7:06 PM

You make a fair point and anecdotally you are an example of your point, but now that it is over I am certain that it will also have the opposite effect down the road. New car buyers in 2009 and 2010 will now become new car buyers in 2011, 2012…Or maybe they become used car buyers trying to bridge themselves along in wait for the next government program.

If the car companies suffer a slowdown again, and you’d have to expect they will, then inevitably the debate becomes whether this program should be reinstated again. For a limited time only, of course (wink-wink). The thing is that as long as the possibility remains out there, people aren’t going to want to be the fool that walks into the dealership and haggles with a salesman. Who wants to be the fool that buys a car right before, or after, the handout?

My car runs a little spotty lately. I’m hoping to get another couple years out of it, but who knows? Fortunately, I have some cash set aside when the time comes but there are always 100, or more, better uses for your money than buying a car. At least while you have something that is functional.

If the car broke down now, or even in the next several months, I’m not going to want to be the fool that buys a car months after a $4,500 rebate expires. Even though I have the money, I’ll be much more inclined to buy an old Accord or something and try to bridge towards 2,3,4 years down the road. I’ll be able to keep saving my money, and maybe getting a little interest on it even. In the meantime, I can wait and see if this type of “deal” resurfaces again.

C4C has made purchasing a car a game of chicken between consumers and producers, now that it has expired. Consumers will always win over time in cases like these. We can wait it out much longer than they can. Long term, I think this will be a disaster for the car manufacturers.

stldave on August 24, 2009 at 7:57 PM

I couldn’t agree more, although I doubt that the program will be reinstated.

Auto-industry analysts have pointed out that the coming months are traditionally the time when discounts on existing inventory were being thrown around to make way for the new model year…2010, in this case.

But no doubt a great deal of business got pulled ahead by the C4C program, to the point where dealers were doing LESS discounting from MSRP than they had been doing before the program. No surprise. I bought a Hyundai Elantra, and since the manufacturer was offering a $2,000 rebate, you were at $6,500 off MSRP when you walked through the door.

Incidentally, do a bit of research on year-over-year July 2009 sales for Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai, and you’ll see that Hyundai is a very smart marketer. In addition to the $2,000 rebate, they threw some front money to their dealers in early July and essentially said, “Make deals.”

Everyone agrees that September and October sales–at least–will be depressed because of the C4C “hangover.”

So the question is, what will the car dealers do now?

Answer: Severe discounting on 2009 inventory.

I believe that Chrysler to some extent matched the $4,500 C4C credit with rebates or discounting. I would not be surprised to see some car dealers–with or without manufacturer support–CONTINUE the C4C program. Here’s the ad headline: “Your trade-in is STILL worth $4,500.”

Anybody want to bet?

Stupid.

But I don’t believe that it JUST pulled sales ahead. I believe that it transformed some used-car shoppers into new-car buyers.

Owen Glendower on August 24, 2009 at 7:06 PM

You make a fair point and anecdotally you are an example of your point, but now that it is over I am certain that it will also have the opposite effect down the road. New car buyers in 2009 and 2010 will now become new car buyers in 2011, 2012…Or maybe they become used car buyers trying to bridge themselves along in wait for the next government program.

If the car companies suffer a slowdown again, and you’d have to expect they will, then inevitably the debate becomes whether this program should be reinstated again. For a limited time only, of course (wink-wink). The thing is that as long as the possibility remains out there, people aren’t going to want to be the fool that walks into the dealership and haggles with a salesman. Who wants to be the fool that buys a car right before, or after, the handout?

My car runs a little spotty lately. I’m hoping to get another couple years out of it, but who knows? Fortunately, I have some cash set aside when the time comes but there are always 100, or more, better uses for your money than buying a car. At least while you have something that is functional.

If the car broke down now, or even in the next several months, I’m not going to want to be the fool that buys a car months after a $4,500 rebate expires. Even though I have the money, I’ll be much more inclined to buy an old Accord or something and try to bridge towards 2,3,4 years down the road. I’ll be able to keep saving my money, and maybe getting a little interest on it even. In the meantime, I can wait and see if this type of “deal” resurfaces again.

C4C has made purchasing a car a game of chicken between consumers and producers, now that it has expired. Consumers will always win over time in cases like these. We can wait it out much longer than they can. Long term, I think this will be a disaster for the car manufacturers.

We’ll laugh, and belch, and just whoop it up till the Park Ranger throws us out.

Ah, the fun we’ll have.

Hindsight being 20 20

5-10 years from now people will look back at C4C and laugh at the joke it is.

The true measure of the stimulus effect is how many people who didn’t even think about buying a car in the next six monthes went out a bought one. I suspect that is a very small number.

Excellent point. Ed is certainly correct–to some extent–when he says, “It didn’t create sales; it just speeded them up.”

But I guess I’m one of the exceptions. My wife & I had been looking around for a better car for almost a year, and we were not even considering a new one. We had grudgingly agreed that we might have to pay $10-12,000 to get something decent, reliable (my wife occasionally travels on business), and economical (we were using an elderly minivan for almost all driving, city and highway).

We were able to buy a new econobox with a great warranty, with roadside assistance included, for $12,000 out the door. Year-old examples of the exact model we bought are readily available for $13,000, plus tax, title, etc.

Really basic econoboxes were available on my dealer’s lot for $7,000, since the manufacturer was offering a $2,000 rebate in addition to the C4C allowance. I have to believe that some of these sold to people like me who otherwise would never have considered buying a new car.

This program was nothing but a stimulus program bailout for the auto industry and the UAW. As one critic said, it’s equivalent to taking water out of one lake and pouring it into another.

But I don’t believe that it JUST pulled sales ahead. I believe that it transformed some used-car shoppers into new-car buyers.

probably paying them overtime?

No probably about it

Hmmm you mean they could have had the dealers volunteer to do it and we would not be out 3 plus billion?????

Facepalm

My 1987 Camry Wagon: “Based on the information you provided [year, make, model] your combined EPA MPG estimate is 24, sorry but it appears that your vehicle does not qualify.”heh.

mankai on August 24, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Hey look at it this way….you still have a clunker

/s

No mention of the fact that 7 of the top ten selling cars were FOREIGN?

8/10 from what I’ve read.

But hey, some of them are made in the US. The fact that all the capital goes to the far east is an intellectual leap too far for an administration obsessed with short term gain and cosying up to corrupt unions.

Great, we stimulated the Japanaese, Korean, and European markets.

Brilliant. Wonderful. Does no one have a concept of the nation-state?

Can hardly wait to see the MSM video of EMPTY showrooms over the next several months. The ex-sales people now back on the unemployment line. The lines of cars being stored at factories NOW PAYING OVERTIME to build cars that won’t be sold.

Yep, get ’shot in the arm’ to car manufacturers. Isn’t Obama Central Planning doing a great job for our economy?

What’s next? Cash for bicycles? Cash for toilets?

GarandFan on August 24, 2009 at 5:26 PM

GM & Chrysler won’t make next spring.Perhaps Ford can hold out as long as the government lets them build F-150s