WaPo/ABC poll: Obama fading
posted at 10:12 am on August 21, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Even with a skewed sample, the new Washington Post/ABC News poll shows big trouble for Barack Obama. He manages to hang onto a 57% approval rating, thanks to a 10-point gap between Democrats and Republicans in the sample, but otherwise the survey shows confidence flagging, pun intended, in Obama. This comes at a bad time for the White House, as they have two massive overhauls of the American economy on the floor of Congress — and that may be the problem:
Public confidence in President Obama’s leadership has declined sharply over the summer, amid intensifying opposition to health-care reform that threatens to undercut his attempt to enact major changes to the system, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
Among all Americans, 49 percent now express confidence that Obama will make the right decisions for the country, down from 60 percent at the 100-day mark in his presidency. Forty-nine percent now say they think he will be able to spearhead significant improvements in the system, down nearly 20 percentage points from before he took office.
As challenges to Obama’s initiatives have mounted over the summer, pessimism in the nation’s direction has risen: Fifty-five percent see things as pretty seriously on the wrong track, up from 48 percent in April. …
The president’s overall approval rating stands at 57 percent, 12 points lower than its April peak, as disapproval has ticked up to 40 percent, its highest yet. On specific issues, Obama received more mixed marks. A majority, 53 percent, now disapprove of his handling of the federal budget deficit, and his ratings on health care continue to deteriorate. On the marquee issue of the economy, 52 percent approve of his actions, unchanged from June.
Let’s deal with the sample first. The poll includes 35% Democrats, 25% Republicans, and 34% independents. That would make sense — if Obama had won the election by 14 points. He won it by seven, with independents and some Republicans breaking for Obama. Here’s a hint to pollsters: if you’re tracking a bigger gap between Democrats and Republicans than we saw in the presidential election, your sample is almost certainly unrepresentative of the electorate. At least it’s improved for WaPo/ABC, which had it at a ridiculous 13-point gap in June.
The skew explains why Obama still has a 57% approval rating in this poll when Rasmussen and Zogby have him under water and Gallup has him closing in on 50%. Even with the skew, his disapproval numbers have risen sharply, especially on ObamaCare, which is practically all anyone discusses. Half of the survey respondents oppose it, with 40% strongly opposed, compared to 45% approving and only 27% strongly approving. Obama is losing the argument, and the longer it continues, the more his overall numbers will erode with it.
WaPo/ABC sees independents as the key, as should Congressional Democrats facing elections next year. At the beginning of 2009, Obama had high ratings among independents, but no longer. Only 41% now trust Obama’s judgment, down from 61% in January. They disapprove of Obama’s handling of health care by 57%, almost all of whom strongly disapprove, and the same number oppose the policy itself. Among the half of independents that say ObamaCare will affect their vote in the midterms, they swing 2-1 to saying that they will oppose candidates who backed it.
Even the skewed samples don’t hide the fact that voters have finally realized that Obama is no genius, but an inexperienced politician, a lousy doctor, and an incompetent economist. And it’s only the seventh month of his presidency.










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Why would anyone want to do that? What’s the motive?
The problem is that too many people have no insurance at all. The wages are too low in too many sectors.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:28 AM
FIFY
OK?
[The Ed bug is spreading!]
Loxodonta on August 21, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Tough to tell, because nothing is actually written regarding Co-ops (at least nothing anyone has seen).
The idea of a co-op is kind of anti-competition, though. You want companies competiting against each other, being forced to lower their costs to attract new customers. Co-ops have competing companies banding together.
But it’s tough to tell what they mean until we see some language.
BadgerHawk on August 21, 2009 at 11:28 AM
May I present Cash for Clunkers for your consideration?
Mommypundit on August 21, 2009 at 11:28 AM
No. The co-op idea is just another name for the public option. It’s all marketing.
By the way, if Obama was being genuine about the co-op (or public option) being self-sustaining, then all he’s creating is another non-profit health insurer. So what’s the point? He says the point is to create more competition and keep the others honest. But HE is being dishonest. There’s no lack of competition, and there are already non-profit health insurers. Why would one more make any difference?
The only reason it COULD make a difference is because it can undercut the competition to the point where — if it were REALLY self-sustaining — it would fail. But there’s no way the government would allow that. Obama will simply bail it out with taxpayer money. Voila – government controlled health care.
Daggett on August 21, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Ann, I didn’t ask about the question of driving out private insurance, I asked whether you think that Government will make things more efficient.
That has never been the case.
Chainsaw56 on August 21, 2009 at 11:29 AM
I wasted Saturday in a VA facility getting a physical. If you want to see ridiculous adminstrative methodology, bureaucracy, and indifferent employees check out the VA near you.
I would further suggest that you can’t fairly make the statement that private insurance companies have been lax in holding down costs. Prove it! It makes no sense for a company to ignore overhead costs, especially in a competive industry like private insurance. As to the paperwork and administration, how much of that is fending off lawsuits and complying with state and federal regulation? You credit the industry with far more latitude than they actually have. But then, these mythical savings from shaking the money tree is the only way the filthy liar in the White House can “fund” his plot to destroy healthcare.
highhopes on August 21, 2009 at 11:30 AM
You haven’t once responded to me, even though I’ve laid it out for you.
Any government public option would be financed not through revenues brought in by better service or competitive advantage, but by taxes. That means they have a fixed amount of capital, and will not have to worry about failing, even if they provide horrible service that no one wants. By contrast, private insurance providers’ capital will come from the revenues that they have to bring in, but their revenues will fall because the government is taxing everyone more to pay for their own plan, and so less people will be able to afford private options.
Do you get this yet?
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Simple question for anyone who supports a public ‘option’:
If you think it will be able to be better run, and offer cheaper rates than private insurance without massive taxpyer subsidies, why not just support a single payer system?
BadgerHawk on August 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM
And Barack has certainly brought change — and hope in the face of mindless and amoral obstructionism.
Bleeds Blue on August 21, 2009 at 11:24 AM
Mindless and amoral obstructionism brought on by the Democratic party whose control of Congress obstructed every single thing The Last Administration wanted to do. Yeah, Obama wants Hope and Change. He hopes that he can carry out his Marxist plans beofer the American Public figures out how he’s ruining the Nation. He wants to change the Greatest Country on Earth to a Socialist European Second-rate Nation. No thanks.
kingsjester on August 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM
One of my buddies got a car under that deal. And another friend sells cars. He’s tried not to sleep at all while this is going on. It may be the only money he makes all year!
It was a successful stimulus program, but if you’re one who doesn’t believe in any government intervention in the economy, I can see why you’d hate it.
It really worked, in fact. It may have worked too well. $4500 was pretty darn good.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM
I wish people would raise this issue in the MSM.
Even people who get to keep private insurance would be paying twice for health care, but getting it from only one source. There’s no way that would last. We’d all be on government-run DMV-quality health care within a few years.
Daggett on August 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Yes, I understand, but I still think you’re exaggerating. The Insurance companies will have to revamp products, obviously.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Why would anyone want to have the government take over private industry? I don’t know, why not ask all the other countries where that has occurred, and the people are paying such high taxes that they are basically slaves to the government?
Amazing how you will assume that a man who legally carries a weapon at a political rally is in it for his own reasons, but you can’t fathom why a government would want more control over the people in its country.
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM
We are approaching the Utopia of Next Tuesday, comrades, but we are not there yet! The One needs our help to push his progressive programs past prehistoric primitives. You must stand up and be heard!
Whether you hold firmly a shovel, a pick, a hammer or sickle, you are needed, comrade!
sargentj on August 21, 2009 at 11:34 AM
Who paid for those subsidies?
The same people who will be paying to support a public ‘option’.
BadgerHawk on August 21, 2009 at 11:34 AM
I think that’s too radical for the US and unworkable because of our size. I also think people like private insurance. It’s the cadillac, if it’s a decent policy.
People want to be able to have that option, if they can afford it.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:35 AM
WRONG!
How could it be ‘successful’? It’s govt creating fake demand.
Now that the ‘new’ cars are bought, who will go buy a GM? I saw all the stories of “oh wow we have increased production!”
For what? Demand will drop off sharply now, and instead of there being a car buying lull in June-August, because of C4C, we have a car buying lull from September-November — at the same time as the new ’10 cars are rolled out.
NEWS FLASH: Govt Screwing with demand is NOT ‘successful’
(and second point: japanese cars have outsold american ones all summer. coincidence/?????????)
battleoflepanto1571 on August 21, 2009 at 11:35 AM
I think that’s been discussed over and over, The short answer is CONTROL. If the government control healthcare, it controls every aspect of a person’s life.
Everything can be connected to healthcare.
As they say, when you grab people by the short hairs, their hearts and mind will follow.
Chainsaw56 on August 21, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Bad idea!
thats YOUR money being paid out.
STUPID economics!
battleoflepanto1571 on August 21, 2009 at 11:35 AM
How am I exaggerating? Answer these questions:
1. If the public option is financed by taxes, will they have to worry about running out of capital?
2. Are people going to be more or less able to afford anything, including private insurance, if they’re paying higher taxes?
3. Will such a situation help or hinder private insurance companies?
4. Is it economically feasible that private insurance companies, suffering from lower revenues due to higher taxes on their customers, will be able to compete against an insurance option funded by those taxes, which they also pay?
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 11:36 AM
i lurv u!
Loxodonta on August 21, 2009 at 11:36 AM
If he has made a dime, he’s the one exception in the country. Almost all dealers are still waiting for their reimbursements from the government, and they’re getting cars rejected on silly things like “we can’t read the number on the faxed copy you sent us.”
I think it was the Glenn Beck show last night that had two dealers – one is still waiting on $1 million from the government, and hasn’t received a penny. Another is waiting for $600,000 and has already had the government reject 25 of the 120 clunkers.
That really highlights the idiocy of the plan. The dealers SOLD the cars on the assumption they’d get back $4,500. But they don’t find out if they can get back that money until after the customer owns the car!! So the dealer loses money on every rejected clunker after the fact.
Daggett on August 21, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Sometimes it is required that one wants to get it.
Yoop on August 21, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Exactly.
BadgerHawk on August 21, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Badgerhawk: Ann’s statement vindicates yours:
VibrioCocci on August 21, 2009 at 11:38 AM
More important for people to get is the idea that there is no going back. If DMVcare isn’t working in a few years, there is no way to fix the problem. This is a zero sum game and the filthy liar in the White House must fail.
highhopes on August 21, 2009 at 11:38 AM
You’re right. I am not nearly that paranoid. If I worry about government at all, it’s due to watching administrations first take care of a program, then neglect it, etc. That is bad for the country. FEMA worked very well until Bush neglected it for too long. Sorry, but he gets a ding on that one. The FDA used to work better than it does right now on recalls.
So I DO worry about consistency. We’re so divided in this country that 8 years of this and then 8 years of that wrecks a lot of good programs with administration shifts.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Cash for clunkers has only paid out 2% of claims because its such a bureaucratic mess, Ann. And theyre going to have to borrow it all anyway.
Chuck Schick on August 21, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Three points about C4C:
1. Perfectly good cars and car parts have been destroyed en masse, causing price increases in both cars and car parts. BAD.
2. That $4500 credit is now replacing the amount almost any customer could argue off the sticker price if there had been no C4C. In other words, they’re not saving any money, because they could have talked the dealer down that much. BAD.
3. The majority of reimbursement claims filed by dealers to the government for C4C have not been processed. VERY, VERY BAD.
Take a look at that third point, and tell me again about how if we want something done efficiently, we should have the government do it.
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Ann, You still haven’t answered my question:
Is Government EVER more efficient that the private sector?
Chainsaw56 on August 21, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Efficient right?
How many dealers have been fully reimbursed for the money?
chemman on August 21, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Pollster 1: The latest poll is looking bad for Obama.
Pollster 2: Damn, and you’re skewing it 10% to the Dems and its STILL bad?
Pollster 1: Yeah, the country is really pissed right now.
Pollster 2: Do you think anyone would notice if we bumped the skew up to 20% for the Dems?
Pollster 1: Better idea… all Republicans are evil nazi knuckle dragging rednecks. Why don’t we just boycott Republican voters and leave them out of the next poll completely!
Pollster 2: PERFECT! ALL HAIL OBAMA!
Dark Eden on August 21, 2009 at 11:41 AM
They’ll get their money, unless they tried to scam the program. The response was so good that they have reviewed only 40% of the applications. Yesterday the report was that a lot of the rejections was simply mistakes on the paperwork from the dealers.
I’m sure the dealers are nervous. They had to front the money.
I presume that they’ll be happy in the end. It’s just slower than originally thought because it was so successful.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:42 AM
And we’re paying for “Cash for Clunkers” in our taxes. We’re subsidizing the purchase of cars, and you can’t even argue that we’re helping the poor. Lots of rich people took advantage of the deal.
Ironically, many people like me in the middle class couldn’t benefit from it. I can’t afford a car payment. So I’m stuck with my clunker while I pay in my taxes for Joe Richguy to get a new car.
These liberal socialists are evil idiots.
Daggett on August 21, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Most on your side were fearing the government for the last eight years. While often it was for fallacious reasons, they had the right idea.
The exodus of any government is total domination of its people. Please, I’m not being condescending here: Read some history. Your passive trust of your government makes you complacent, and unaware.
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Yes, I think so. It depends upon the goals. For example, government labs are more reliable than private labs. That’s been proven. When the system outsources to private labs, the increase in mistakes goes up.
And that means problems for prosecutors.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:44 AM
You don’t know that Ann, but your unflappable blind trust of government is quaint.
Chuck Schick on August 21, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Tell me how denied claims and/or delayed payments from the government is good for a business? Tell me how more deficit spending in this economy is ever good? Tell me how asking the tax payers to subsidize people’s personal purchases, creating a false bubble, only to burst in time as more personal debt is accumulated and demand naturally decreases over the next months and years because of this program? It’s artificial movement.
I’m struggling to understand how logic can so evade a person.
Mommypundit on August 21, 2009 at 11:46 AM
I notice a very consistent pattern in your posts. Most of them could be summed up with the statement:
“With no evidence to back this up, I say it is successful. And as to the contrary evidence that you cite, I believe it will still all work out great.”
Either you are incredibly naive, or you are getting paid to troll with this nonsense.
It’s the same definition of insanity that drives liberals on health care and socialism. “It has never worked before, but I still believe that if we try it again, we’ll get different results.”
Daggett on August 21, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Not me. I think Bush was a straight-up kind of guy, except maybe in the area of giving his friends too many contracts.
I disagreed with him on various policies, but I think the entire hysteria over Bush was nutty. Ditto for worrying that Obama has nefarious goals to control the people.
Shoot, these guys just want to get reelected. Whatever lying/spinning they do, that’s all they are really after usually.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Point #1. C4C was not supposed to be a stimulus program. It was an incentive program to get the worst polluters off of the roads. It essentially turned into yet another bailout for the auto industry but that was an unintended consequence not the intent. Therefore, please do not hold C4C up as an example of good government intervention into the economy.
Point #2. The C4C program hit its target within days. It got all the cars it was supposed to get off the roads off the roads. That should have been the end of the deal. Instead, because it was so ineptly run and so many dealers would be hurt, they threw another $2B into the pot from funds set aside for developing greener technology. In other words, this program cost three times as much as originally intended, over-reached its mission, required an infusion of cash from other programs, and has dubious results. If you want to call that a success go ahead but it is nothing more than your typical ill-conceived government program.
highhopes on August 21, 2009 at 11:47 AM
(I just repeated what everyone said…oops. I had to step away…)
Mommypundit on August 21, 2009 at 11:47 AM
DarkCurrent on August 21, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Can’t let this pass. FEMA is not a first responder nor are they tasked with command and control of first responders. First response is a local issue. The local government of New Orleans failed not FEMA.
Point in fact there was a CAT 5 hurricane during Clinton’s watch in Florida. It took FEMA longer to get its feet on the ground than in New Orleans. Narry a word was said by the media about a FEMA failure under Clinton.
The FEMA failed meme for Katrina was for political point scoring.
chemman on August 21, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Proven where? In the same study that shows doctors chop of feet to get a quick $50,000?
Daggett on August 21, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Yes, but why? While the pay is good, it’s not the money. They could get that in the private sector. They are interested in the power. As the saying goes, those who most want to be in charge are those least qualified to do so.
This is combined with a person who has used very aggressive language about telling people what to say and what to do. Make the correlation. Get your head out of the clouds. Obama is not a benevolent leader. If he was, he wouldn’t be surrounding himself with domestic terrorists and money launderers and eugenics enthusiasts.
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 11:50 AM
Yes, that was totally inappropriate.
Now, if you were to put your thoughts in an email, and send it to me, it would be better received.
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Have you been paying attention AT ALL?
Fox had two dealers on.
One has sold 300 autos under Cash-for-Clunkers. He has $600,000.00 out-of-pocket for that right now. SO FAR the government has paid him $12,000.00!
The second dealer has sold 360 autos. Right now he is out $1,000,000.00. So far the government has reimbursed him ZERO DOLLARS!!!
The government just keeps kicking the paperwork back to them.
Who do you think is carrying the interest on that money?
The government has turned out to be an abject failure with this program.
Is this what you define as “may have worked too well”?
Please explain. Please define sucess. Also, should the government be paying interest on the unpaid amounts of money these dealers have to wait for, simply because the government did not have enough employees assigned to handle the program before they started it?
Yoop on August 21, 2009 at 11:53 AM
My opinion?
Well it may surprise people here. But I think Obama is completely wrong on this. That’s why he’s fading.
And I really enjoy it when special people here post for me!
haha*
Now, I’m concerned about getting back on topic, becasue that’s why we’re all gathered here at Hot Air.
So, how can we best ram the option of socialized deathcare down everyone’s throats?
— Ack!Ack!Attack!
Loxodonta on August 21, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Ann you need to take a Class on how the Government issues contracts. The President has no say in who gets contracts. The government has a Contracting Agency which issues contracts.
chemman on August 21, 2009 at 11:54 AM
For someone who claims to ‘bleed blue’ you sure do talk Red.
anuts on August 21, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Here’s a simple article on that issue. There are tons of sources.
Houston Texas is one of the primary examples of privatization gone amok, if you’re interested.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/183007_crimelab22.html
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Uncharacteristically, you failed to back up that bold assertion with any sort of evidence. Can you please remedy the error now?
DarkCurrent on August 21, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Of course an unprecedented situation and idiot governors should be ignored if it doesn’t fit the model. Fact of the matter is that FEMA wasn’t neglected as much as it simply was unprepared for the massive needs following Katrina/Rita. GWB should probably get a ding but there is more than enough blame to go around including, post-storm lack of coordination between all the federal/state/local agencies involved in re-building efforts. It’s not as sexy as the “heck of a good job Brownie” attacks but the situation is far more complex than you suggest.
highhopes on August 21, 2009 at 11:56 AM
And you guys call me naive? *haha
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 11:57 AM
As I’ve said…
(and anyway I commented on your ollllllld blog already)
Mommypundit on August 21, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Do you have any proof of that?
I have definitive proof from experience with the EPA’s labs that says you are wrong. I also have the bills from private University labs that I had to use, and pay, to prove to them that they were wrong.
So, let’s see your proof.
Yoop on August 21, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Ann,
Do you know who mandates coverages in policies written by the BIG BAD INSURANCE COMPANIES?
The federal gubmint tells the insurance industry what they have to cover. I work for a small company, 12 employees, and almost all of the employees are either single males or people with families that have no female children living at home and all the other females are older than child-bearing years. Our plan has maternity coverage and can’t be written without it. There is also mandatory drug rehab in it. Before you decide that the gubmint is sooooo much better at providing services just look at the lunacy they have already subjected the public to.
BTW, I am a veteran with a service-connected disability and have access to the VA hospital system. I don’t use the VA hospital system simply because to get any kind of specialty care you have to make appointments months in advance because the specialist is only at the facility 1 day a week and for only a few hours. I would rather pay what I have to pay to get care and figure out where I have to cut back to get what I need.
belad on August 21, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Ah the Seattle Times, an incredible source from an incredible source.
Maybe you missed this part Ann:
“Even the state-of-the-art FBI crime lab in Quantico, Va., was shaken by scandal recently when a DNA analyst, Jacqueline Blake, was caught falsifying her lab reports over a two-year period. Blake skipped an important step in her DNA tests, then lied about it”
The ‘F’ in ‘FBI’ is for ‘Federal’ btw
DarkCurrent on August 21, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Sorry to be incredulous, but are you kidding me?
Chainsaw56 on August 21, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Yes, but how are we to carry on coherent conversations without driving crotchety denizens of HA into further snits?
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 12:02 PM
It’s like giving a math lesson to a yellow lab puppy. Frustrating, and likley futile, but the puppy’s so adorable you don’t really mind.
BadgerHawk on August 21, 2009 at 12:02 PM
People still read that?
BadgerHawk on August 21, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Ok, naive AND uninformed.
DarkCurrent on August 21, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Provide that proof, please. Profit drives development and innovation more than any other force on the planet.
And if you can’t provide that proof, please provide an example for which you have proof.
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Did you not expect me to read the article? Most of the article is about how the STATE labs produce errors. There’s nothing in the article about how the state labs are better than private labs except the testimony of the DIRECTOR OF THE STATE LAB. And what do you expect him to say? “Yeah, we suck. Fire me, please.”
Daggett on August 21, 2009 at 12:04 PM
You are Ann.
I should have said each agency has its own contracting office controlled by reams of regulations rather than a single Contracting agency. The reams of Regulations are there to immunize them from Politics.
chemman on August 21, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Madison, I gave you a link on it.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Thanks. Good job. This is exactly how it is done.
Loxodonta on August 21, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Wrong answer!
Loxodonta on August 21, 2009 at 12:05 PM
I make this point with homeowners insurance all the time. I can get insurance for like $400 a year, because it only covers catastrophic damage and break-ins.
Imagine how expensive the insurance would be if the government forced it to cover yearly termite inspections and clean air tests. Health insurance is so expensive, partly, because the government requires all sorts of routing stuff that people either don’t need or should be paying out of pocket.
BadgerHawk on August 21, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Yeah, Madison, read the article at the link for a good laugh.
I think Ann is a paid troll. She’s a time-waster. Nobody can be that stupid as to think the link proves her point.
Daggett on August 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM
One thing McCain did say during the debates, several times I think, was that this is not the time for “hands on training” for the job of president. He was right, and this is what we got because a bunch of bush hating democrats, independents, and rinos decided to make a statement.
Next time you jerkoffs decide to make a statement, make it by immolating yourself in front of the whitehouse please. That would solve 2 problems with one stroke.
Spiritk9 on August 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Wassamatter, can’t the Wash ComPost and the All Barry Collective get a dang list of ACORN drones to sample? Yeesh, what is wrong with activist polling nowadays?
Western_Civ on August 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM
In Ann’s defense, she probably didn’t understand what she was linking to.
DarkCurrent on August 21, 2009 at 12:08 PM
Um…that link disproves your claim. It’s about how government labs are making mistakes. The State Patrol is a government agency.
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 12:10 PM
Dear Madison, please go read the entire Medical Encyclopedia. And when you get back, we can continue this delightful chat we’re having.
In the meantime, back on topic: We need more death panels!
Loxodonta on August 21, 2009 at 12:10 PM
Oh, it’s a trove, I tell you, a trove of insightful pontification. :o)
Mommypundit on August 21, 2009 at 12:11 PM
With this drop in confidence, as well as the now-ironclad argument that can be made that a double-standard exists for what the liberals and media will accept from conservatives and independents and what they will accept from themselves, the time has almost come for the unthinkable–to demand that if legislative items are not grounded in Congress’ enumerated powers in the Constitution said items can not be done until amendments are passed giving Congress said power.
Now, this argument has been made time and time again, but does not often resonate–the people, unfortunately, have been willing to accept excursions from “theory” to achieve results in fact. They have been willing to sacrifice principle for security. But a change is possible now because the behavior of the political class in general, and the Democrats in particular, should have shown many that there still exists in the land those who would rule by imperious will, and that both principle and security may be lost. For those of a liberal persuasion loathe to admit wrong by their side, surely they can name instances of what they consider abuse of power by the former administration, and surely they will not argue that it is the rule of law that prevents these things. But for the rule of law to work the law must be followed even when it goes against what the majority would wish to do. The rule of law really means that it binds the powerful as well the powerless.
I thus simply argue that the time has just about come when the people are going to start intuitively feeling–if they do not already do so–that making laws with no other concerns than if the political will exists and if the voters will vote them out come next set of elections; i.e., not worrying about if they have the proper authority to do so; is merely the political class acting as lords of the manor and is a slow steady slide into Leviathan. I believe this may help explain why Ms. Sotomayor’s approval numbers began to drop–people perhaps saw a desired view of the law that relied less on the law and more on the desired.
In short, the people may start to understand that power in fact can be abused, that the politicians can be unresponsive, that politicians may actually not mind abusing power once in a blue moon if an extraordinary payoff for their side results, and that while elections can help correct the damage, they cannot prevent it from happening to start with, but that a rigid ethic that only that which is enumerated is allowed can. In short, the time may have come for a more rigid interpretation of the Constitution, as the people become concerned that Utopian idealists will never take no for no, but will always be plotting again to get their foot in the door for their desired program. The Constitution and the enumerated powers clause, then, becomes the bulwark of the people’s liberties against Utopian idealists.
So I believe the time has about come. But this is not to mean we are going to restore the “Constitution in exile”, for certain programs are here to stay. But it does mean that we should present amendments that legitimize programs such as Social Security, so that is does not have to hang on the “general welfare” clause of the Preamble, and that we should present amendments that are tightly worded so that future efforts in other fields cannot rely on these authorizing amendments.
Politically, doing this will cause problems for those who view the Federal government as the one stop shopping superstore for all their utopian needs–if they argue against it, then are they not arguing against the very programs (Social Security, etc.) they would support and expand? And if they argue for it, have they not then conceded the points that a.) Congress never had the power to do these things to start with, and these programs were merely the power of the majority enacting its will with no deference to any higher charter or idea of limitations upon their actions, and b.) that this means that unless the power is enumerated, Congress cannot do other things? It would seem to me that we of the classic liberal/conservative/libertarian grain have much to gain and little to lose by formally incorporating many of the items of the last 70 years formally into the Great Charter of the Republic and restoring the ideal that only that which is enumerated is allowed.
For an ethic that only that which is enumerated is allowed will go far in securing the liberties of the people, and the time has come to put the Constitution in line with the past actions of the Legislative Branch, so that future actions of the Legislative Branch may be in line with the Constitution and not the desires of whatever temporary and ephemeral majorities have been cobbled together for quick attempts to enslave posterity to their view of what is right via dint of a brief moment of unchallenged power that is quickly over. The government must be checked internally by the different branches, and externally by the Constitution itself and the people. The Constitution is a check, and must not be paid mere lip service to. If we wish the programs that are present today, then let us give Congress the power to do so via amendment, so that we do not have other programs tomorrow that we do not so wish.
Horatius on August 21, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Step down to save face. You know what? He loves to hear himself talk SO MUCH, that he doesn’t care that people know he’s full of sh*t. LOL. This guy has serious “please love me” issues.
marklmail on August 21, 2009 at 10:36 AM
You talkin’ about Oboomba, or Brett Favre? Both need to go away.
rotorjoe on August 21, 2009 at 12:12 PM
Damn you for a liar, madam!
I should wish to thrash you soundly, but only on a private channel!
MadisonConservative on August 21, 2009 at 12:13 PM
how to say this…how to say this…um…
Mommypundit on August 21, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Classic…
right2bright on August 21, 2009 at 12:16 PM
I have been a Federal employee for almost 33 years. Based on my experience, I can guarantee you that a government-run system will waste your health care dollars and reduce the efficiency and effectiveness of health care. They will dumb-down health-care research as they eliminate the economic incentives for discovering significant advances in medical technology. They will tax us more and give us less for our money. That is what government is good at. We need to reduce the role of Federal, state and local governments in our lives. We need less not more of government intervention.
NuclearPhysicist on August 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM
And this is the headline….
What a perfect example of how you argue…it is almost unexplainable.
You throw up evidence to disprove your point…very rare, although it has happened before, you lose your own argument with your own post…from now on, we can sit back and just let you debate yourself….HAHAHAHA!, I crack myself up…
right2bright on August 21, 2009 at 12:21 PM
The problem is with almost a quarter of workers in the state and federal system, it is difficult for you to vote yourself out of a job…
right2bright on August 21, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Rats…I can’t find what I looking for on the private lab issue.
The only decent article is about the Houston privatization.
AnninCA on August 21, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Close. It comes from something that rhymes with Rats.
Loxodonta on August 21, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Probably not a bad idea. Ann certainly doesn’t manage to swing anyone to her side. If anything she adds to the ranks of those opposed to her absurd positions.
I say: Keep it up Ann!
DarkCurrent on August 21, 2009 at 12:30 PM
I am not going to waste time arguing with AnninCA, an obvious troll. She is probably an ACORN employee paid by the number of posts.
The many who voted for Obama, buying his hope and change bs, are starting to wakeup. The backlash is going to be wicked, especially from the true lefties. Obama is all about the “O” and his Chicago thugs. He is trully corrupt (reference Michelle Malkin, too many to link, she has a book).
conservativegrandma on August 21, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Zactly!!!! +1000
Chainsaw56 on August 21, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Since this seems to have turned into a thread on the cash-for-clunkers issue, let me give you another perspective.
A friend in the auto parts industry tells me his business is off by 40% sinc ethis started. That is because people are unsing their old cars to trade in for the government money. Normally those cars would be reused somewher ein the market, as dealers would move the lesser trade in cars to auctions where they would be bought by small businesses that revamp and resell them. The revamping takes parts and the next owners would also often need parts. The clunkers are going to scrap as part of the government deal; taking them out of the used car market.
This causes lost dsales of parts, lost sale for used car dealers, lose of sales for trucking companies that move parts, lost incomes for everyone in that chain, etc.
Anyone want to guess if the government has a study in place to see what the real cost of this is? For ech %4,500 they give for the incentive, how many more dollas are being drained out of the federal treasury in the form of lost income taxes? For each job Obama save for the UAW, how many jobs are lost in other areas as a direct result? Does anyone think OBama even cares enough to have that study run?
MikeA on August 21, 2009 at 12:32 PM
I find this definition of Wee, wee:
Falz on August 21, 2009 at 12:39 PM
I’d like to think so, given how damaging her obviously ridiculous arguments are to ACORNs goals.
Not exactly driving the ROI for ACORN is she?
DarkCurrent on August 21, 2009 at 12:41 PM
The poll numbers are great to see and I hope that this trend continues until he is gone, but I wouldn’t read to much into it. Bill Clinton had favorable ratings right around 42% when his health care debacle failed and was below 50% for most of his first term.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html
We need to keep up the pressure until 0 is gone from office and conservatives have regained control.
donkichi on August 21, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Thanks for the Troll-B-Gone. Very well done.
Loxodonta on August 21, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Those strawmen of hers are quite flammable. Just light ‘em up and throw ‘em back! LOL
DarkCurrent on August 21, 2009 at 12:51 PM
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