WSJ: VA pushes vets to consider death as an alternative to treatment

posted at 11:36 am on August 20, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The ObamaCare bill may not contain “death panels,” but even Charles Lane and Eugene Robinson at the Washington Post wonder why the bill incentivizes end-of-life consultations with the elderly and ill as part of its cost-containment strategy.  Maybe Lane and Robinson should take a look at the VA, where the Obama administration and former General Eric Shinseki have reinstated a program called “Your Life, Your Choices.”  The Wall Street Journal reports that this program amounts to a high-pressure sales pitch for refusal of treatment for veterans:

“Your Life, Your Choices” presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political “push poll.” For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether their own life would be “not worth living.”

The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to “shake the blues.” There is a section which provocatively asks, “Have you ever heard anyone say, ‘If I’m a vegetable, pull the plug’?” There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as “I can no longer contribute to my family’s well being,” “I am a severe financial burden on my family” and that the vet’s situation “causes severe emotional burden for my family.”

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

One can only imagine a soldier surviving the war in Iraq and returning without all of his limbs only to encounter a veteran’s health-care system that seems intent on his surrender.

I was not surprised to learn that the VA panel of experts that sought to update “Your Life, Your Choices” between 2007-2008 did not include any representatives of faith groups or disability rights advocates. And as you might guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a resource on advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as “Compassion and Choices”).

Of course, the program is entirely voluntary, right?  Well, the VA has instructed its physicians to deliver this end-of-life counseling to all of its patients.  In effect, the US government is telling every veteran it treats that they may want to die for their country — not to defend it, but to save it a few bucks.

This booklet has been in use since the Clinton administration.  When the Bush administration finally reviewed “Your Life, Your Choices,” it suspended its use within the VA system.  For some reason, the Obama administration and Shinseki have reinstated the booklet this year.  The directive reinstituting the booklet was issued last month.

Perhaps some of the “death panels” rhetoric was overblown, but this is downright disgusting.  The Bush administration was correct in suspending the use of these tactics to push vets into refusing treatment, and the government these men and women defended should be ashamed to have put that in their hands in the first place.  If Obama wants to argue that he won’t bend the cost curve downward at the expense of treatment, maybe he should start by stopping that very policy at the VA — one of the existing “public plans” that need reform much more than the overall health-care system.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 11:54 AM

What do you expect from a jackalope who decided to get photographed playing basketball rather than visit wounded troops?

I’m a vet and if the VA rep were ever to advise me on any of this I would advise right back that they will be moving on before I will.

Bishop on August 20, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Once again, I ask: How come when it comes to healthcare, Obama is all about “bending the curve,” containing costs, creating a more efficient system, but when it comes to everything else, he cavalierly throws good borrowed money after bad, wracking up trillions in debt with nothing to show for it?

When can the impeachment proceedings begin?

NoLeftTurn on August 20, 2009 at 12:08 PM

“We are God’s satan’s partners in matters of life and death.” –Barack Obama

Why should we be surprised?

Abby Adams on August 20, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Fixed it

txdoc on August 20, 2009 at 12:08 PM

I truly cannot believe the balls on this idiot president. In the midst of a nationwide debate on health care, one that has rightfully raised the point that containing cost will lead to limiting care for the elderly, one that has uncovered provisions in the bill that provide incentives for doctors to talk to old people about ending their lives…ALL of which obama and the left have DENIED… Then at the same time he is denying these “death panels,” he makes them law concerning the current government run health care for our military.

Zero trusts the MSM so much that he parades his hypocrisy like he’s in a gay pride celebration! And considering his administration and presidency is all about looks and not substance, you would think ONE person would have said, “Um you know, this isn’t going to play well…”

Spectreman on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Why even join the military

there’s no point anymore

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

I have been there 1 time and I will never, ever put myself in that situation again. I can just go into town and ask the people walking by to kick me in the crotch instead and get the same feeling as going to the VA, and the people kickin me in the crotch would be a lot more friendly than the VA.

the Coondawg on August 20, 2009 at 11:56 AM

That’s been my experience too and one of the prime reasons I am so rabidly against the state seizing healthcare.

highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

I’m beginning to wonder if this leftist country and its putrid policies are even worth saving.

rplat on August 20, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Maybe we could re-instate the “Leaving Grandpa on an Ice Floe Die” strategy that they used to have in the good old days. That would give the poor starving polar bears something to tide them over until the next ice age and save us money at the same time.

It’s a win/win I tell you.

Lily on August 20, 2009 at 12:10 PM

The Dems have an interesting history of wanting to see our military dead any way they can do it, and wanting to instate the draft. No wonder that the upper echelon of the party shun, dip, duck and dodge military service to this country.

Hening on August 20, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Why even join the military

there’s no point anymore

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Well John Kerry, Dick Durbin, and Charlie Rangel would agree with you. They hold that the military is the employer of last resort and only those without any other option would choose to serve.

highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 12:11 PM

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Maybe that’s the point of this…I don’t know. But when you add all the stuff they make soldiers do, i.e. read the taliban their rights, and so forth. It kind of raises a few eyebrows.

FontanaConservative on August 20, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Just when ya think it can’t get any more Orwellian… geesh! Palin was right.

WordsMatter on August 20, 2009 at 12:12 PM

liberal4eva on August 20, 2009 at 11:41 AM

EPIC TOOL

Monica on August 20, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Maybe we could re-instate the “Leaving Grandpa on an Ice Floe Die” strategy that they used to have in the good old days. That would give the poor starving polar bears something to tide them over until the next ice age and save us money at the same time.

It’s a win/win I tell you.

Lily on August 20, 2009 at 12:10 PM

This is why they are so upset about the false report of the ice caps melting. Screw the polar bears, they need space for seniors feeling a little blue.

Hening on August 20, 2009 at 12:12 PM

I’m really surprised the booklet doesn’t also come with a single bullet and a .38 revolver.

Not to keep harping on the “Nazi” theme, but why does the image of Erwin Rommel spring to mind. Where the Gestapo gives him “the choice” of hanging or a bullet’?

GarandFan on August 20, 2009 at 12:13 PM

WHEN IN THE HELL WILL THE PEOPLE WAKE UP? 90% OF AMERICANS ARE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH. SUSICIDE IS AGIAINST OUR FAITH SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FORCED DEATH OVER TREATMENT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. 1ST AMENDMENT YOU KNOW FREEDOM OF RELIGION

rone5847 on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Sarah Palin was right?

ramrants on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

They must have taken it too seriously when they heard that old soldiers never die, they just fade away.

Maybe we can get this thought process to fade away as well.

I can’t help but think about it comically (because it’s too horrible to think that this is going on to people who risk their very lives to protect me and my family) so I’m picturing a guy with a clipboard following around a soldier saying, “Wanna die yet?” “No.”…”Wanna die yet?” “No.”…”Wanna die yet?” “No.”…etc.

Like a grim reaper version of the “Can you hear me now?” guy.

How many more minutes until this admisitration is done?

DrAllecon on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Well John Kerry, Dick Durbin, and Charlie Rangel would agree with you. They hold that the military is the employer of last resort and only those without any other option would choose to serve.
highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 12:11 PM

I don’t mean it in a derogatory way

but why
so you can die for the right of afghani men to starve their wives?

For shari’a?

So you can come back home and get sh!t on?

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Tomorrow the White House will order the Pentagon to issue a new pamphlet to all active and reserve troops entitled, “Seppuku and You: How To End Your Uselessness Honorably”.

Bishop on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Once again, I ask: How come when it comes to healthcare, Obama is all about “bending the curve,” containing costs, creating a more efficient system, but when it comes to everything else, he cavalierly throws good borrowed money after bad, wracking up trillions in debt with nothing to show for it?

When can the impeachment proceedings begin?

NoLeftTurn on August 20, 2009 at 12:08 PM

That’s what gets me! I have been asking that for awhile. The only reason he cares about healthcare costs is because credits are starting to knock on the door(China). At least that’s my best guess.

jeffn21 on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

I’m a vet and if the VA rep were ever to advise me on any of this I would advise right back that they will be moving on before I will.

Bishop on August 20, 2009 at 12:08 PM

You’re a vet? Yeah, right.

TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Another cooked story with no solid proof whatsoever. EPIC FAILliberal4ev

Yes, those soldiers fought for your right to have freedom of speech, even clueless speech.

Beaglemom on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Why even join the military

there’s no point anymore

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

This is the goal of the Left. And those who do serve, in the perspective of many Democrats, the Left, don’t “deserve” much, are held in low regard (witness John Kerry’s horrible deceit, for example, over the years in that regard).

Lourdes on August 20, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Army of One cost rationing.

portlandon on August 20, 2009 at 12:15 PM

It will be interesting to see what effect this has on recruiting numbers.

Chiasmos on August 20, 2009 at 12:06 PM

It won’t. Those in the recruiting pool don’t really think about this kind of issue. What is more important, IMO, is to raise bloody hell with the Congress and this administration until they are forced to re-think their “you’re a burden on society” campaign.

highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 12:15 PM

I don’t believe there will be death panels that look like a judge and jury and you are wheeled in to plead your case in front of them, but I do strongly believe that if this horrible bill comes to pass there will be an undisclosed group of people who write guidelines for healthcare professionals. These guidelines will be used to use to present options to there patients. As money becomes tighter and tighter, as we all know it will – these guidelines will no doubt push letting someone die instead of further treating them. Who wants to be among those who writes those guidelines? Even though at times it may even be better for someone to die – do you want the government making that decision for you?

AusTex girl on August 20, 2009 at 12:16 PM

” There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as “I can no longer contribute to my family’s well being,” “I am a severe financial burden on my family” and that the vet’s situation “causes severe emotional burden for my family.”

Has an end of life councilor contacted Ted Kennedy yet? As the President would say, “give him a pain pill and send him home”.

Tommy_G on August 20, 2009 at 12:16 PM

TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009

Why are you doing this?

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:17 PM

This is disgusting. Vile. Loathesome. WTF is wrong w/these people? A brave soldier’s life isn’t worth it if they are in a wheelchair? Do they say that about the dude at NASA? Was Helen Keller a throwaway? Christopher Reeve?

JAM on August 20, 2009 at 12:18 PM

so you can die for the right of afghani men to starve their wives?

For shari’a?

So you can come back home and get sh!t on?

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

service to country isnt a choice to some, you join because thats what you do, atleast it was for me. some people are just wired that way.

trailortrash on August 20, 2009 at 12:18 PM

You’re a vet? Yeah, right.
TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

YAY my personal stalker is here! The parole board finally approved your release, I see.

Bishop on August 20, 2009 at 12:18 PM

You’re a vet? Yeah, right.

TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Hey, fake, drunk military man. Long time no see.

Kind of early for you to be up, isn’t it? Nursing that hangover?

Knucklehead on August 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Does it occur to these nimrods that the veterans reaching the end-of-life decision time now are the World War II veterans? Do they REALLY want to encourage what’s left of the “Greatest Generation” that saved the world to off themselves?

rockmom on August 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Dammit Ed, the “death panel” imagery was not overblown in the least. Just because that phrase is not contained within the text of the bill, does not mean that the philosophy of Obama and his closest health care advisers will not lead to that very result, literally, not rhetorically.

All of this from the right about the letter of the bills ignores the powerful point that Sarah Palin made, which resonated with a whole lot of Americans.

When are some on our side going to bite the bullet and just admit Sarah was right to point out Dr. Zeke’s viewpoint, and the result of socialized medicine in other countries results in panels of government drones calculating the monetary value of the lives of people they have never met, both young and old.

She was right on the big picture. It was effective. Admit it.

Brian1972 on August 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Well, the VA has instructed its physicians to deliver this end-of-life counseling to all of its patients.

My experience has been that most VA doctors are English as a second language foreigners. I’d never understand what they were saying anyway. Maybe that is the intent.

farright on August 20, 2009 at 12:20 PM

I don’t mean it in a derogatory way

but why

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM

The motives why people serve in the military are as individual as they are. I served for 23 years primarily because I felt as if I was doing something positive instead of just getting a paycheck (not that there is anything wrong with that).

It is up to the we the people to put an end to these disgraceful tactics by the current administration.

highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 12:20 PM

The administration doesn’t want the military around because no one tryin to instigate a forced take over of the world wants a bunch of trained and in most caeses armed men and women ready to stand up and defend the country yet again!!

docjwt on August 20, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Perhaps some of the “death panels” rhetoric was overblown, ……

Wrong.

“Guiding” vulnerable old people to “surrender” their lives is exactly the same as this bullsh*t program from the VA.

Also, if a commitee or “panel” looks at the actuarial tables and decides which ailments will be treated and at what age level the cut-off for gov’t provided treatment will be given, how is this NOT a “death panel”?

omnipotent on August 20, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Some of us veterans do have mental disabilities and some of us have physical disabilities but very few of us suffer from moral bankruptcy.

fourdeucer on August 20, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Has an end of life councilor contacted Ted Kennedy yet? As the President would say, “give him a pain pill and send him home”.

Tommy_G on August 20, 2009 at 12:16 PM

If JFK were alive today he would be 92 years old and a WWII veteran. Anyone think the VA would suggest that his life was not worth living?

rockmom on August 20, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Disgusting!

Hopefully the new or returning soldiers to the theater now will really read all of the registration papers for DEERS, Tricare and especially the VA paragraphs. This will be slipped into it for sure!

What next? Involuntary organ taking!

Coastal Paradise on August 20, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Why even join the military
there’s no point anymore

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Under this sorry a$$ed CIC I agree. This is even more reason to pray for the ones in uniform today.

TXUS on August 20, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Why even join the military

there’s no point anymore

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Because we still need to fight to defend our freedom and…

Oh, I see what you mean. Never mind.

Daggett on August 20, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Hey, fake, drunk military man. Long time no see.

Kind of early for you to be up, isn’t it? Nursing that hangover?

Knucklehead on August 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

I see someone has been reading Daily Kos regularly.

TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009 at 12:23 PM

What I find interesting is the lack of involvement from pastoral care associations. I’m currently working on certification for stress and trauma care for vets. The idea of suggesting suicide is not even a remote option for pastoral counselors. The American Association of Pastoral Counselors includes members that donate their time to vets. That info should be in bold print in all brochures. The Bush administration was very proactive when it came to faith based associations getting involved with care. What a shock to find the elected socialists that replaced him see their twisted concept of ruling the masses as a replacement for biblical based counseling.

Hening on August 20, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Is Obama the charismatic leader of a death cult? We report, you decide.

Immolate on August 20, 2009 at 12:24 PM

YAY my personal stalker is here! The parole board finally approved your release, I see.

Bishop on August 20, 2009 at 12:18 PM

Make that two Kos readers.

TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Do they REALLY want to encourage what’s left of the “Greatest Generation” that saved the world to off themselves?

rockmom on August 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Rhetorical question, right? That isn’t a WWII vet, it is a unit that is costing the system valuable resources with zero return on investment.

Ed is wrong that the death panel rhetoric was overblown because this is a concrete example of the spirit of the end-of-life provisions.

highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 12:24 PM

And just exactly how was the death panel “rhetoric” overblown, Ed? You post this story which proves how these death panels will be implemented and how they will continue to intrude into healthcare decisions if the government has their way and you still whine about “overblown rhetoric”. Man up! Palin was right.

Redneck Woman on August 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM

i am a combat wounded vet and have lots of friends that are combat wounded and I don’t think any of us have ever heard of this before. I have an appointment today at the VA and will bring this up thats for sure. What country are we living in?

Brass Knuckles on August 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Perhaps some of the “death panels” rhetoric was overblown, but this is downright disgusting.

Perhaps?

Perhaps Palin is clarivoiant, or at least genius?

Babies, seniors, now veterans. Watch out America, you may be next on Obama’s hit list.

Hog Wild on August 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM

This poor sick, morbid, Godless society has completely lost its value. It’s falling faster than the old Soviet Union.

rplat on August 20, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Dammit Ed, the “death panel” imagery was not overblown in the least. Just because that phrase is not contained within the text of the bill, does not mean that the philosophy of Obama and his closest health care advisers will not lead to that very result, literally, not rhetorically.

Brian1972 on August 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

If both government and private insurers have a need to ration service and if individuals continue to have the right to spend their own dollars for premium technologies how are “death panels” being introduced?

dedalus on August 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Why even join the military
there’s no point anymore
blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Because service is bigger than Afghanistan and bigger than the fud currently infesting the White House. As an example think of what National Guardsmen do when there is a natural catastrophe; rescuing people, guarding businesses from looters, providing supplies and medical care.

Don’t let Ogabe dilute the honorable reasons that people serve, he will eventually be driven from office and we will still need our military.

Bishop on August 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Man up! Palin was right.

Redneck Woman on August 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Palin is the anti-pseudo-intellectual. If pseudo-intellectuals agree with her, they risk a matter/antimatter explosion.

Daggett on August 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Redneck Woman on August 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM

I think Ed believes Palin is “beneath” him in intellect.

omnipotent on August 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM

What next? Involuntary organ taking!

Coastal Paradise on August 20, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Please don’t give the filthy liar in the White House any ideas. It is not outside the realm of belief that the bastard would dictate that some military doctor gets to decide if patients “volunteer” to be organ donors.

highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Perhaps, as Commander in Chief, Obama will set the example and volunteer at the Hemlock Society and show us how it’s done. After all, the ‘greenies’ are all about population control.

GarandFan on August 20, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Kevorkian for Whitehouse physician

Bevan on August 20, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Babies, seniors, now veterans. Watch out America, you may be next on Obama’s hit list.

Hog Wild on August 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM

But I’m a 34 year old white male. Everyone wants me around. Don’t they?

Oh. There is a problem with the whiteness? With the maleness?

Dang.

thomashton on August 20, 2009 at 12:28 PM

how are “death panels” being introduced?

dedalus on August 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Socialized medicine=death panels.

see UK NHS.

It is that simple.

Brian1972 on August 20, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Stays beyond a day or so in a VA hospital are generally depressing…are depressing.

coldwarrior on August 20, 2009 at 12:07 PM

I worked in a VA nursing home for a couple of years. Our facility was consistently one of the highest rated, 96%-98% overall. It was a very clean, well-run place and the guys were happy, as were the staff. Lots of laughter on that unit and lots of good memories there with them. I still visit when possible.

I hated being floated over to the hospital. It was dreary, depressing, smelly, not very clean, always short-staffed and I didn’t like the staff or their level of care. Or their indifference. They eventually stopped floating me after writing me up a few times for “insubordination” – for advocating for patient rights. Go figure.

I would never send a loved one to a VA hospital.

Lady Texan on August 20, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Kill Your Television – Out

Kill Your Grandparents / Veterans – In

omnipotent on August 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Why even join the military

there’s no point anymore

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Cool toys.

BadgerHawk on August 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM

I’m beginning to wonder if this leftist country and its putrid policies are even worth saving.

rplat on August 20, 2009 at 12:10 PM

We are and we’re not a leftist country. Don’t let the bigmouths fool you into thinking we are. We waaay outnumber the progressives. When we take this country back, progressives need to be shunned, outlawed and striped of their citizenship. A very strong lesson and message needs to be sent to them once and for all.

vapig on August 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Make that two Kos readers.
TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Sensible as always which reminds me why I miss you when you’re away.

Bishop on August 20, 2009 at 12:31 PM

omnipotent on August 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM

In full disclosure, I’m not a big Palin fan. I like her down-to-earth approach to life but would find it extremely difficult to take her seriously as a national leader.

Palin would be well advised to show her intellect (which is clearly there) by becoming a spokesperson for an issue. With a special needs child, championing a rational healthcare plan would have been a golden opportunity for her to break away from the SNL send-up.

highhopes on August 20, 2009 at 12:32 PM

docjwt on August 20, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Too bad he is overlooking a few others :)

HoustonRight on August 20, 2009 at 12:32 PM

I see someone has been reading Daily Kos regularly.

TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Sober up! AA is your friend.

Knucklehead on August 20, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Does it occur to these nimrods that the veterans reaching the end-of-life decision time now are the World War II veterans? Do they REALLY want to encourage what’s left of the “Greatest Generation” that saved the world to off themselves?

rockmom on August 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

My grandfather fought on Iwo Jima with the 4th Marine Division. Despite failing hearing and eyesite, he can recount exactly what he did during that battle. Makes me sick that Obama doesn’t give a rat’s a** about these people.

Esmerelda on August 20, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Are we suprised? Look at Obama’s position on abortion.

Barack Obama aka Vlad the Impaler.

Obama and his administration are ghouls.

BuckeyeSam on August 20, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Why even join the military
there’s no point anymore

blatantblue on August 20, 2009 at 12:09 PM

I am proud that my son is a member of the military. He is a very good man. And there are a lot of good men and women serving with him. He was there before this administration came in and, God willing, he will be there long after it is voted out of office. Our military may take orders from the Commander and Chief, but they will outlast any administration.

I would be incensed to hear that if he had a severe medical problem someone would suggest that he may as well go home and die. He would probably just laugh in the person’s face.

Lily on August 20, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Sober up! AA is your friend.

Knucklehead on August 20, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Quitting is for losers!

Oh wait….

Besides, when he’s drunk, he forgets how inadequate he is.

omnipotent on August 20, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Socialized medicine=death panels.

see UK NHS.

It is that simple.

Brian1972 on August 20, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Are the people in the UK who opt for private insurance subject to “death panels”? In the US if someone limits themselves to welfare–food stamps, housing, health care–they can’t complain when the spigot is turned off.

Taxpayers should only have to pay for the minimal health care giveaways in order to keep the poor from using the ER as a primary care facility.

dedalus on August 20, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Somebody get a copy of this pamphlet to Ted Kennedy!

Star20 on August 20, 2009 at 12:36 PM

How does this jell with the anti-suicide push by the military?

rob verdi on August 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

What is a “death panel”? Obviously, it’s a metaphor, unless we are to believe that Palin was suggesting that a government panel would be appointed to say “that person has to die”. Nobody buys that.

So what she was suggesting is that a panel would exist to decide that this person’s potential was insufficient to warrant the expense required to preserve their life. A death panel exists to make “intelligent” decisions about who gets denied treatment. They don’t exist now because there is no explicit rationing going on.

But once demand exceeds supply, someone has to decide who gets left without a chair. This is the first step–trying to convince the inconvenient that they should remove themselves from the game. It’s their choice, no matter how hard the sell was, so the political cost is the smallest.

Next step is to let the shortage create a defacto waiting game… hopefully many of the seriously ill will die waiting for treatment. Again, not our fault. You people don’t pay enough taxes so their aren’t enough doctors etc.

Only as a last resort will anyone ever say “No, you can’t have treatment”. The reason is that “no” requires taking responsibility and owning the outcome, and no government employee that doesn’t carry a gun or a hose is every going to do either of those things.

Immolate on August 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Another cooked story with no solid proof whatsoever. EPIC FAILliberal4ev

A few days ago I got a call from the VA doc that my cancer is advancing and I’ll be turned over to oncology. I assume that they’ll give me the death speech at the time. I’ll let you know what they say. (you communist son-of-a-) This doesn’t surprise me at all. Mr. Obama and the Democrats are the champions of death.

As to why serve your country when half of it (Democrats) wants you dead? We love, and are willing to die for, the idea of America – not the realization.

lonesomecharlie on August 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

And yet, for all the condemnation of Republicans that oppose Obamacrap, you hear not a single liberal voice denouncing Obama as a traitor for advocating that American Veterans make it their patriotic duty to die for the US Treasury and Obama’s fiscal policy. Obama, as much as I try to refrain from personal attacks (something your ilk specializes in), I cannot refrain from calling both you and your disgraced, broken down general, Shinseki, scumbags. You are SCUM. This, like yourself, is thoroughly dispicable, and you’re lucky the media is, by and large, composed of people like yourself.

Virus-X on August 20, 2009 at 12:39 PM

As an unemployed combat vet undergoing PTSD counseling, this doesn’t give me that “warm and fuzzy” feeling….

Star20 on August 20, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Never leave a brother behind… unless of course they’re too badly wounded and will be too big a burden on the healtcare system

- Obama

red winger on August 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM

lonesomecharlie on August 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

I hope you’ll get better.

FontanaConservative on August 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM

As to why serve your country when half of it (Democrats) wants you dead? We love, and are willing to die for, the idea of America – not the realization.

lonesomecharlie on August 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Charlie, I am so sorry to read that. Please know that others appreciate your sacrifice and pray for all of our soldiers both serving and retired.

TXMomof3 on August 20, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Read this again. Sarah is right to bring this up, and draw attention to it. She forced Obama to respond, and Dr.Zeke to back away from his own sick scholarship.

As I noted in my statement last week, nationalized health care inevitably leads to rationing. There is simply no way to cover everyone and hold down the costs at the same time. The rationing system proposed by one of President Obama’s key health care advisors is particularly disturbing. I’m speaking of the “Complete Lives System” advocated by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the president’s chief of staff. President Obama has not yet stated any opposition to the “Complete Lives System,” a system which, if enacted, would refuse to allocate medical resources to the elderly, the infirm, and the disabled who have less economic potential. [1] Why the silence from the president on this aspect of his nationalization of health care? Does he agree with the “Complete Lives System”? If not, then why is Dr. Emanuel his policy advisor? What is he advising the president on? I just learned that Dr. Emanuel is now distancing himself from his own work and claiming that his “thinking has evolved” on the question of rationing care to benefit the strong and deny the weak. [2] How convenient that he disavowed his own work only after the nature of his scholarship was revealed to the public at large.

None other than Dr. Thomas Sowell has backed her up. This is not surprising since she cited him as a source for the first post.

Does anyone think Dr. Thomas Sowell is “overblown”, or “simplistic”, or “misleading”?

Sarah is right on the substance, and she played it very well. People are still talking about it on both sides.
She changed the subject from the protesters back to what is or is not in the bill, and where this type of program will take our country in the long run.

Sarah +1.

Now this VA policy is only confirming it further.

Sarah +2.

Brian1972 on August 20, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Shinseki is a whining loser who was not entrusted with the Iraq operations because he figured he needed at least 500,000 troops to get the job done. This guy would requisition a cannon to kill a mosquito. The fact that this total loser is a kinda-sorta military czar to Obama is very disturbing but it kind of fits in with the human cesspool sum total of all the other czars that Obama dragged from the bottom of the outhouse.

If destroying the military is your plan, the cowardly and treacherous Shinseki is your man.

MaiDee on August 20, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Would the military attache at the US Embassy in Honduras please ask the Honduran military for some advisors for the military units staioned in and around washington, DC!!!!!!!!!

bill30097 on August 20, 2009 at 12:43 PM

I hope you’ll get better.

Thanks but it ain’t gonna happen. I’ve been around the block many many times and have packed at least three lifetimes into my years so it’s not not-fair. But I’m not going quietly like the Obamabots want me to.

lonesomecharlie on August 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Brian1972 on August 20, 2009 at 12:41 PM

I’d like to give Sarah credit for prescience, but the fact is she was only stating the obvious. Unsavory, shameful and unpopular, but impossible to miss if you pay attention.

Immolate on August 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Rush is talking “death panels” on the air right now.

Sarah +3.

Brian1972 on August 20, 2009 at 12:45 PM

How does this jell with the anti-suicide push by the military?

rob verdi on August 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

I was thinking the same thing. It’s bizarre because the questions in the pamphlet are exactly the types of suicide ideation that the military uses to identify high risk soldiers. Army Suicide Prevention month is scheduled for September, so interesting timing for this article. Part of the push is for family members, friends and associates to be educated on the signs to look for, which are mostly the same as the questions in this pamphlet.

gatorgirl on August 20, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Way to distance yourself from the “death panels” Ed. God forbid you would show any testicular fortitude in this fight. I think the term was hyperbole and not literal. Just write your piece with your own words in an attempt to defeat the inevitable outcome of this looming disaster. I don’t understand the point of including that in your post. Otherwise great post.

chief on August 20, 2009 at 12:46 PM

How does this jell with the anti-suicide push by the military?

rob verdi on August 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM

There is no shortage of psychologists, nor is there ever likely to be.

Immolate on August 20, 2009 at 12:46 PM

DISGUSTING

blicklider on August 20, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Perfect example — Thank you, Sarah, for telling truth to power. What an outrageous way to treat our veterans.

Christian Conservative on August 20, 2009 at 12:47 PM

I’d like to give Sarah credit for prescience, but the fact is she was only stating the obvious. Unsavory, shameful and unpopular, but impossible to miss if you pay attention.

Immolate on August 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Yes it is obvious, that is what is so frustrating about the response from some conservatives.

Sarah got people to pay attention, didn’t she?

That was the whole point.

Brian1972 on August 20, 2009 at 12:47 PM

lonesomecharlie on August 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Give ‘em hell Charlie!

Lily on August 20, 2009 at 12:48 PM

Make that two Kos readers.

TTheoLogan on August 20, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Are you just drunk as they say, or is it worse than that?

DarkCurrent on August 20, 2009 at 12:48 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4