Novak vs. Frum, Levin vs. Frum, and Casualties of Rhetorical Combat
posted at 10:55 am on August 19, 2009 by The Other McCain
Today’s news about the death of Robert Novak brought to mind my first meeting with Novak in 2002, and subsequent events:
It was Novak’s criticism of the Bush administration’s Iraq policy, and especially his agreement with Buchanan on that subject, that earned him inclusion in David Frum’s notorious 2003 catalog of “Unpatriotic Conservatives.”
Since then, Frum has gone on to attack others, including Mark Levin. . . . As a result of the Bush policy — and the rhetoric that attended the political defense of that policy — every consideration of the U.S. position in the Middle East became a crude referendum on anti-Semitism, so that all dissenters were suspected of being closet Jew-haters in “unpatriotic” allegiance with terrorists.
This Manichean rhetorical escalation was both unfortunate and unjust, even if some of the dissenters (including Buchanan) had unwisely given their critics ammunition with which to arm accusations of mala fides. When discussions of policy become clouded by such damaging insinuations, when disagreement is cited as evidence of moral inferiority — can anyone but a child molester be worse than an anti-Semite? — then honest discussion becomes impossible. . . .
Today, of course, Novak can no longer be harmed by accusations that he, born a Jew, was guilty of aiding and abetting anti-Semites. Whatever his faults and errors, Bob Novak now awaits the judgment of a higher authority than David Frum. Let us pray that Frum will now pause to consider that he, too, shall one day be judged by the same authority.
You can read the whole thing at The American Spectator, and I am grateful to be linked in Ed Driscoll’s own Novak tribute, as well as by DaTechguy, Mark Goluskin and Craig Henry.
Last night, I got a message from a veteran conservative communications professional, a friend who on Friday had tried to contact me about Frum’s attack on Levin. Over the weekend, my attention had been consumed by other news, and so I had not responded to an earlier e-mail.
In the meantime, however, Dan Riehl had blogged about it, and someone called my attention to Frum’s appearance on the Moyers show, and my response to that was actually mentioned on Monday night’s show by Levin.
Nothing is more harmful to the legacy of Ronald Reagan than when a conservative, engaged in good-faith discussions of politics and policy, is publicly accused of dangerous malice, immorality or irresponsibility by another who purports similarly to revere the worthy cause to which Reagan dedicated his life.
Frum’s attack on Levin was such an occasion, as was his “Unpatriotic Conservatives” article that attacked Novak and others. If a colleague in the conservative cause has erred in judgment, he should certainly expect criticism. Yet Frum has so clearly crossed a line — and crossed it more than once — that I wish he would entertain the hypothetical possibility that he has himself made errors of judgment.
Our nation is now in circumstances too desperate for good men to be silent while sincere conservatives like Mark Levin (who did honorable service under Ed Meese in the Reagan administration) are repeatedly and unfairly maligned by others who profess also to be conservatives.
(Cross-posted at The Other McCain.)
This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
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How does one go about getting on Frum’s list?
Vashta.Nerada on August 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Frum. Tool.
TXUS on August 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Novak is already missed. Regan, painfully so. Frum…not so much.
DrAllecon on August 19, 2009 at 10:58 AM
This is what you get when you don’t cave to the leftist “neo-cons.”
Be careful not to upset the Frumnistas.
They’ll add you to their list.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Why don’t Frum and Parker go on an apology tour or something… they could start in Iraq and make their way to Afghanistan.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Frum operates from further to the right than your average Daily Kos diarist, but often runs into the same problem when dealing with contrarian views — his opponents can’t just be wrong, they have to be maliciously wrong, in some cases even to the point of being evil.
People on the left who take attitudes like that at the very least have each other for affirmation of their justness; Frum keeps quarantining more and more of his supposed allies on right into the “unfit to hold office/hold an opinion” category that the “New Majority” website looks more and more like some sort of joke, since we keep moving closer and closer to the point of it being David Frum, Majority of One.
jon1979 on August 19, 2009 at 11:00 AM
The Frumnistas are the new majority.
After America’s disastrous tango with neo-conservatism (essentially communist converts), we decided, heck, let’s embrace Frum.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Who is Frum and why does he think he can hold a candle to Levin when it comes to conservativeness?
Yakko77 on August 19, 2009 at 11:04 AM
I think the 11th commandment should not apply when the other ‘republican’ takes delight in hamstringing one’s efforts and actually gives ammunition to the other side. In such cases, they are no better than democrats.
Chubbs65 on August 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Frum, like Brooks, is part of the Pierre Trudeau branch of the Republican Party, Canadian libs masquerading as Reagan Conservatives. Pox on’em
clnurnberg on August 19, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Frum is scum. Scum is Frum.
Percy_Peabody on August 19, 2009 at 11:07 AM
I always get the feeling that Frum is not really promoting conservatism but rather promoting himself. He wants to be Buckley-esque and thought of as important, the leading thinker of his age.
But he is not those things and there isn’t much he can do to change that. The only way he gets even a modicum of attention is by attacking others. Perhaps once the whole field is destroyed he’ll be the last conservative standing and will finally have his heart’s desire.
myrenovations on August 19, 2009 at 11:07 AM
I think Frum’s biggest problem is that he knows he is fading from relevance in the conservative sphere, while Levin has risen into relevance.
Patrick S on August 19, 2009 at 11:08 AM
False… they don’t even masquerade as Reagan Cons.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Davis Frum is a Liberal pretending to be a Conservative. I think he is an undercover operative for the DNC. They send someone out there pretending to be a conservative to then throw conservatives under the bus. Also he is a native of Canada. He should go back and work on their Health Care System.
mcl2177 on August 19, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Why don’t Frum and MegMac put their brain cells together and have a mental orgasm?
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Frum is unfit to even comment on Levin. Mark Levin is a brilliant man and right on in his accessment of political issues. Frum is a boot-licking wannabe conservative of the ilk of Kathleen Parker. They are to be ignored.
TXMomof3 on August 19, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Once again, the only way Frum makes news is by criticizing his own. If he criticizes the Dems, he’s ignored.
Basically, he’s Pavlov’s dog. When the press rings the bell, he knows what to do.
Matticus Finch on August 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM
I agree–the 11th commandment then gets turned on its head!!
Except Frum is worse than Democrats!
INC on August 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM
That Mr. Novak agreed with Herr Buchanan on anything was a BAD thing.
As I mentioned yesterday-like Mr. Novak I am also a Jew who left the faith. I’m a member of the Church of the Nazarene.
Like Mr. Novak-I’m a proud , patriotic, American.
However-I don’t side with those who want to destroy Israel.
Mr. Novak did just that-on a regular basis.
I’m sorry he died and hope G-d comforts his family in this time of grief.
I am unwilling to deify a man who held such abhorent views toward the Jewish state.
annoyinglittletwerp on August 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM
This presupposes that Frum is a colleague.
Frum is about as conservative as Joe Lieberman. Just because he’s an Iraq hawk doesn’t make him a confrere of the right.
Lehosh on August 19, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Uh-huh… So he told you this?
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Btw-I like Frum’s book on GWB “Right Man”-but he’s gotten very squirrely since then.
annoyinglittletwerp on August 19, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Frum rhymes with Scum.
I’m just sayin’
Elizabetty on August 19, 2009 at 11:14 AM
Uh-Upstater-I can read.
I also haven’t been living under a rock for the past almost 39 years.
annoyinglittletwerp on August 19, 2009 at 11:15 AM
Why is Novak gone, and Frum is still here? I’d trade Parker, Frum and Buckley for Novak in a heartbeat. Only the good die young, and The Prince of Darkness was sights better than the three scurvy dogs I just listed.
chunderroad on August 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Thanks for shedding more light on this. Mark Levin is a patriot who loves this country and we owe him a debt of gratitude. I do not profess to read, nor know what David Frum thinks, nor cares about—but I do read a lot. I guess that shows how much influence that Frum has over conservatives…..none, as Levin pointed out on Monday’s show.
ted c on August 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM
So please tell me why one would use a picture of one of our great heroes on the right, with a thread that doesn’t mention him, in reality, but does include an anti-semite?
Jeff from WI on August 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM
As we know, William F. Buckley started the modern conservative movement by, for want of a better word, exorcising the extremist right or elements from the cause.
I see nothing generally wrong with conservatives fairly criticizing what they believe are extreme and dangerous views.
Yes, fairly.
SteveMG on August 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM
Honestly, does anyone follow Frum? Seems to me the man’s attacks are rooted in his own impotency.
RMOccidental on August 19, 2009 at 11:26 AM
Novak is already missed. Regan, painfully so. Frum…not so much.
DrAllecon on August 19, 2009
How can we miss him if he won’t go away?
SKYFOX on August 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Let’s just ignore Frum. Problem solved.
Akzed on August 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM
There’s no doubt that Novak harbored some strange self-hating glitch that made him so reflexively Anti-semitic at times – the purification of the converted, so to speak. He certainly was working out some personal demons.
On a more important front, he was a strong and reliable conservative voice, and he was a booster of Reagan and the conservative movement at a time when it needed support in the almost-universally hostile national press.
I have books by Novak that go back to the Goldwater era, and he was very prescient, to say the least.
Levin honored Novak with a moving bit of praise last night, and he is not known to dole out adulation like that very often.
TexasJew on August 19, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Hmm…let’s see. A Jew that was an anti-Semite, and a conservative that was a life long Democrat.
I smell a person I can’t trust.
Jeff from WI on August 19, 2009 at 11:33 AM
I guess I was inferring that you thought Robert Novak wanted to destroy Israel – my bad.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 11:37 AM
So do you think Frum holds dangerous views?
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Absolutey not.
I do think that too much of his focus, if you will, is poorly aimed.
SteveMG on August 19, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Poorly aimed or strategically aimed.
I fail to see how Frum is actually on the American Right. Hawkish -yes. So is Joe Lieberman and well David Brooks.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Novak agree with him or not he always had class.As for people like Frum & Parker no class loud mouth jerks craving attention.
thmcbb on August 19, 2009 at 11:47 AM
He’s clearly closer, ideologically, to the center than to the right.
Stylistically, I think his approach is wiser than, let’s say, Levin’s. And his criticism of the more extreme elements on the right are mostly – note the qualifiers – correct. But too often he’s willing to overlook those far more extreme and dangerous elements on the left.
He needs a better aim.
SteveMG on August 19, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Frum is such a pansy. If I were Levin, I would ignore this little flea. Brush him off your shoulder and let him fade off into oblivion never to be heard from again.
barrythrowslikeagirl on August 19, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Frum’s nominally on the right, but doesn’t really like or respect most of the people who are conservatives because of their passion. He thinks he can out-wonk the Democrats just on the sheer power of his intellect, and wants the trogs to his right to shut up and (in the case of pols like Sarah Palin) go away … except on Election Day, when they’ll vote the way he wants them to.
Frum fails to grasp that with the majority of the big media outlets touting the wonderfulness of liberal Democratic policies and having no qualms about labeling conservatives as fanatical racist Nazis, he’s outgunned in the calm, rational debate department, and a conservative movement that’s afraid to be passionate about their beliefs is going to lose the swing voters to the Democrats, because they’re going to only hear the scare tactics of the right. I had problems with Bob Novak’s positions on the Middle East, but Novak always saved his biggest disdain for the folks inside the Beltway. Frum’s bile is pointed outside I-495.
jon1979 on August 19, 2009 at 12:00 PM
I’d say he’s definitely centrist, but there are some qualities of his (from what I’ve read), where he has ticks from the left.
I don’t really read Levin, so I can’t say that Levin is better than Frum. I’d say though that I fail how to view Frum’s approach as wise. He calls himself a majority, yet his particular blend of politics won’t do much even for the moderates of both parties.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 12:04 PM
The 11th commandment is ridiculous. If a conservative doesn’t constantly rip on G.W. Bush along with Obama then they need their head examined. It’s not like fellow Neo-Republicans don’t rip on Ron Paul whenever possible.
The Dean on August 19, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Heh, perhaps.
I guess I was just wondering on what issues that Frum was really a conservative.
Some would argue his Hawkish stances, but like I pointed out earlier, this is a far cry from being conservative. Many lefties are also Hawkish.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Err… you actually have a point in the last statement.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 12:06 PM
A New Majority of one!
tsj017 on August 19, 2009 at 12:09 PM
Frum, okay. But Brooks was born in Toronto and raised in New York. How’s about Charles Krauthammer, who was born in New York, but raised in Montreal?
YYZ on August 19, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Where did Buckley grow up?
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM
How long did Frum work for Bush?
davod on August 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM
2 longs.
Upstater85 on August 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Classic Levin on Frum….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI629COK0o0
Levin FTW!
Levinite on August 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Frum is a conservative? Who knew? Didn’t he endorse Obama? Isn’t this guy an apologist for Obamacare?
theCork on August 19, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Well done. I vote a promotion to the main page for The Other McCain and vote ed for minnesota public radio.
peacenprosperity on August 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM
If Paul doesn’t want return fire he needs to put his gun down.
Besides, someone who thinks that the US is the chief cause of upheaval in the world is, in my humble opinion, in the wrong party and movement.
SteveMG on August 19, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Frum rhymes with…
Tim Burton on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Might I suggest a ‘Tip account’ in which to submit fishy / swishy Conservatives:
flag@davidfrumisatool.org
I kindly offer myself as the first submission to ‘the cause’. Because I want to be included with Mark Levin on that list!
juanito on August 19, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Frum: useful idiot.
spmat on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Thanks, that was classic Levin.
Frum is so pathetic he can only get attention by attacking the most prominent conservatives. “Look at me! Look at me, dammit! I should be somebody!”
Nichevo on August 19, 2009 at 1:10 PM
I cannot recall all of this criticism of Frum when he actually wrote that piece. Actually, most of the conservative movement was right with him. Men like Sam Francis and Tom Fleming were called unpatriotic because they did not agree with the Iraq War. Both of these men, along with others, maintained that there was nothing conservative about that war and they were maligned because of it.
Everyone in the mainstream conservative movement might be sour on Frum now, but when the movement itself is criticized for not being conservative (the Iraq War, supporting Bush, etc.) they immediately smear them. Buchanan is an anti-Semite. Ron Paul is too extreme. Joe Sobran is a Nazi. Mel Bradford is crazy. You are doing to them that Frum is doing to you. And now everyone is upset. Modern conservatism is one of the most ideologically rigid movements in our time.
And to prove my point, let every reader of Hot Air and other websites visit Taki’s Top Drawer, a site that regularly publishes Mr. McCain’s pieces and the place where I first read his wonderful writing. The whole site would be shut down if National Review had its way. Too “unpatriotic.”
Innocent Smith on August 19, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Frum, like fellow RINO David Brooks, is first and foremost Canadian born, and seems to have a spectators cynical view of our politics. He may not even be a US citizen therefore, he really doesn’t have a dog in the fight.
How shallow and shiftless that he supported the Neo-cons, thinking they would ultimately help Israel, yet now he berates conservatives for being too hard on Obama. Is he deluded into thinking Obama is a freind of Israel?
He is worthless and weak.
zekero on August 19, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Frum is a maggot.
I was marginally against the war in Iraq simply because I believed that the Sunnis and Shiites would not get along and that civil war would develop. I recognized it as nation-building which is very difficult to pull off and especially with the short patience that Americans generally have with war. I was for the surge because we had a responsibility to the Iraqi people to defeat the insurgents of both sides and help them with self-government because we took out so much of the country’s infrastructure, etc.
So that POS Frum thinks I’m an Unpatriotic American, huh?
I just want to meet him….once. So I can really give it to him both physically and verbally.
He is not a conservative. He breaks the 11th regularly and destroys the GOP from within.
Sapwolf on August 19, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Interesting.
It just pissed me off so much when I saw Bush/Cheney piss away all the political capital they had to fight that war and completely ignore the building up of the GOP as a libertarian/conservative party.
Now we have the Marxist in power. Thanks Bush. Thanks Cheney for overreaching.
Obama won’t stop overreaching.
Sapwolf on August 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM
To whom?
InTheBellyoftheBeast on August 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM
The whole new majority wanna bes need to be sidelined. They are trying to prove that the GOP is really middle of the road and the conservatives in the party are irrelevant. Frum is their voice, and only gets noticed when he tries to take on the Big Names on the Right. Like the nerdy third grader who only gets ahead by being the chief tattle-tale, eventually no body listens.
InTheBellyoftheBeast on August 19, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Novak was consistently hostile to Israel, the Jewish state. He not only took pride in his ignorance of Judaism, he rejected his own people and converted to Roman Catholicism. You think the mere happenstance of his Jewish birth makes him immune from charges of anti-semitism, so I suppose all those hard-left Jewish supporters of the Palestinian cause are not filled with self-hate either.
I wonder how many accolades Novak would be getting had he converted from Catholicism to Judaism.
rokemronnie on August 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM
I also get a little sick of hotair linking to articles by david frum. Outside of his criticism of other conservatives he is just not very interesting or original in any area.
Most of this is just a publicity stunt to hawk his website.
I put him on the same par as Smerconish and medved. Useless and boring
kangjie on August 19, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Frum on Gladney:
Reminds me of Kevin Bacon yelling “Remain calm! ALL IS WELL!!”
Hey the guy wants us to move past Reagan, I’m agreeable–ditch the 11th Amendment and screw Frum.
Chris_Balsz on August 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM
I can’t help but notice Mark Levin had lot’s of nice things to say about him though Mark is jewish and very pro israel.
Converting one way or another has nothing to do with it. It was the postions he took and how long and well he did his job. I remember him mostly for his crossfire days and willingness to be non-pc even when it shocked people.
Most people at the time did not have any idea he was jewish or that he converted late in life to being a catholic at least I didn’t.
kangjie on August 19, 2009 at 3:29 PM
rokemronnie
I was a political Zionist when I was Jewish and I’ve continued to be one since I became a Christian.
Converting to Christianity does not an anti-semite make.
annoyinglittletwerp on August 19, 2009 at 4:02 PM
The evidence strongly suggests to this therapist that David Frum feels inferior; knows he’s inferior to his former brothers in arms. Maybe it’s the Canadian thingy. Kind of embarrassing.
Randy
williars on August 19, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Frum = scum
’nuff said.
novaculus on August 19, 2009 at 5:46 PM
It very certainly does not.
Being a supporter of Hamas, however, does. This is not the ideal time to have to bring that up, but should we REALLY just overlook it? It is kind of a big deal…
Oh, and sorry about picking your email to reply to. I could have picked from dozens of others.
RegularJoe on August 19, 2009 at 5:51 PM
Was Benedict Arnold a loyal American?
Converting to Christianity doesn’t make you an anti-semite, though historically a persuasive argument can be made that many Jewish converts to Christianity in fact turned on their former faith community with libels and worse. Pablo Christiani was just one Jew hating apostate, so you’re not in such savory company. While it doesn’t necessarily make you an anti-semite, it does makes you a meshumad, someone who has destroyed themselves spiritually. Somewhere your Jewish fore bearers are crying for you. I’m willing to bet my left testicle that before your conversion you were a relative ignoramus about Judaism. I’m sure that retroactively your ancestors have all become pious, orthodox and chassidic Jews, but an average 10 year old yeshiva bochur knows more about Judaism than you do/did.
rokemronnie on August 19, 2009 at 8:11 PM
With that kind of venom aimed at someone you never met, just because he converted to Christianity, I can see why many Jews find it very hard to convert.
I’m hoping this is not a typical Jewish reaction to a Jew converting to Christianity.
didymus on August 19, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Frum has my permission to commit sepuku at once .
borntoraisehogs on August 19, 2009 at 10:41 PM
didymus on August 19, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Thanks for defending me. I’m a “she” btw.*grin*
Actually he’s partially right-I grew up in a center-right reformed Jewish family. The day after RR won his first term I was hazed in Hebrew school because my parents voted for the wrong guy. Though I was baptised in 1996-both of my husbands have been Christian as is my son-I’ve tried to go back to Judaism several times. I’m not one who can follow a legalistic approach to G-d-which is what is required in Torah observant Judaism.
I’m not a great Christian-kind of pick and choose-but I’m becoming a better person because of the wonderful people at my church, my husband, and of course, G-d.
annoyinglittletwerp on August 19, 2009 at 11:04 PM