Video: Dem wants to eliminate private health insurance altogether

posted at 12:55 pm on August 18, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY) returned to the ObamaCare battle on MS-NBC’s Morning Joe today, preaching the public-plan gospel just as he did yesterday on CNBC. However, this time, Joe Scarborough goaded Weiner into a little more honesty than he’s offered on the effort to “reform” health care. Declaring that “health care is not a commodity,” Weiner says his aim is to eliminate all private insurance — which is why he will not yield on the public-plan option:

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The key points come at 2:31, 4:44, 5:15, and 7:15, but the 5:15 is when the light dawns for Scarborough. Jazz Shaw transcribes the moment:

S: It sounds like you’re saying you think there is no need for us to have private insurance in health care.

W: I’ve asked you three times. What is their value? What are they bringing to the deal?

S: Again… I’m astounded by your question. It sounds like you’re suggesting that there’s no need to have a country that’s run on free market principles.

W: Time out. Let’s focus on one thing at a time. This isn’t a commodity, Joe. Health care isn’t a commodity.

S: You’re saying that health care is different than everything else.

W: Health care is not a commodity.

S: But you are making the conservatives’ point. You are making the point of the people at the town hall meetings who say this is Barack Obama’s opportunity to get rid of private health care and turn it completely over to the government. I’m sitting here stunned, saying Oh My God, you’re making the point of the health care protesters.

W: If Barack Obama doesn’t want to do it, I want to do it.

Of course health care is a commodity. Weiner wants to use this populist pet phrase, which goes along with the notion of a “right” to health care, but it’s absurd. Food is a commodity, water is a commodity, clothing and shelter are commodities. Until cap-and-trade came up in the House, air was not a commodity, but carbon dioxide will shortly become one, even though life itself cannot exist without it. People have to produce the goods and services that comprise the health-care industry, which means that the supplies are finite and they expect to get compensated for their work. That makes it a commodity, regardless of Weiner’s socialist rhetoric. Anything with a cost is a commodity, by definition.

Anyone who doesn’t understand that much about economics has no business creating policy.

What do insurance companies do for health care? Weiner asks this question repeatedly as if there is no answer, but it’s as obvious as the fact that goods and services are commodities. Insurance companies provide risk pools for consumers that allow them to indemnify themselves against catastrophic health-care costs. It’s that simple. By paying a few hundred dollars a month in premiums, customers can get access to a wide range of goods and services in health care when needed. Insurance companies or private-sector co-ops attempt to calculate the risks to set the premiums at a point where customers find the pricing acceptable, investors in the risk pool can get a profit from its creation and maintenance, and providers get adequate compensation for their goods and services. The more these insurers compete against each other, the better pricing consumers get and the more efficient they become at controlling costs.

Anyone who doesn’t understand that much about economics has no business creating policy.

Weiner has a single goal in mind, which he announces at the end:

S: So, Anthony, I figured it out over the break. You actually do want the federal government to take over all of health care.

W: Only in the sense that the federal government took over health care for senior citizens 44 years ago.

S: You want to expand that for all Americans.

W: Correct. I want Medicare for all Americans.

Weiner wants to destroy the private sector insurance market, which accounts for 15% of the American economy, in order to have government control health-care decisions. At least, as Jazz says, he’s honest … for what that’s worth.


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You can just watch the scams unfold faster than on-line gamboling.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:21 PM

Yeah, it would almost be as bad as the 10% of medicare funds that are lost to fraud and embezzlement every year…oh wait that does not fit the narrative…never mind

elduende on August 18, 2009 at 1:26 PM

I don’t hear the RNC and congress playing this up…they are too quiet

cmsinaz on August 18, 2009 at 1:21 PM

I think they know that at this point the most effective thing they can do is let the people speak. Any Republican voice will seized by the left and scapegoated immediately.

NickelAndDime on August 18, 2009 at 1:26 PM

Aren’t insurance companies like any other for profit company allowed to make a profit? To mention medicares overhead being low when medicare is going broke adds insult to injury. Do these libs really believe everything they say? I just can’t believe that they do. Joe S. is another sit on the fence moderate, he really stands for nothing, but today I will give him credit for trapping Weinerschnitzel with his own words.

margretto on August 18, 2009 at 1:26 PM

Beware: There is no chance that any “tort reform” enacted by our existing congress and signed into law by Obama will do anything to reduce the power of plaintiffs’ lawyers to pillage our society and capture huge fees, a portion of which will be shipped to democrats as political contributions. We should expect any “tort reform” to be enacted as another emergency measure that will not receive any public scrutiny before it is enacted.

GaltBlvnAtty on August 18, 2009 at 1:26 PM

Exactly why are costs going up? Do you know? Do you care? Or are you content just to blame everything on “evil” insurance?

No, I think there’s a variety of factors, Darwin. I think a lot of local hospitals got into buying very expensive testing equipment and couldn’t afford it.

I think a lot of the skyrocketing costs boils down to bad hospital administrators. A lack of talent, in other words.

i think some can be attributed to 20 years of people going into this field to make money rather than be healers.

I think part of the problem is corporatism taking over. MBA’s replaced people in the field.

In short, a bunch of stuff.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

Weiner: I’ve asked you three times. What is their value? What are they bringing to the deal?

Sh*t, man, at least the health insurers aren’t bankrupting the country, which is what Congress apparently wants to do.

That’s OK, because when the currency collapses, it’ll be 535 Congressidiots against 300 million citizens. Their families will be lucky if they can find all the body parts.

venividivici on August 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

(although, if we go through another round of private businesses ripping off people, like we did in this last decade? I’m probably going to move to socialism. They have acted without conscience!)

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:24 PM

You’re nuts. You have no idea how ignorant you sound. You have fallen for the siren song of communism and don’t know it. Only when you finally have to live it will you realize how utterly wrong you are.

darwin on August 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

if we go through another round of private businesses ripping off people, like we did in this last decade? I’m probably going to move to socialism.

There are laws against “ripping people off,” you know.

There are laws against fraud, money laundering and other financial chicanery.

That doesn’t mean that CAPITALISM has failed. That means that dishonest people who try to make dishonest profits try to rip you off.

Funny – politicians traffic in fraud, money laundering and corruption all the time. The only differnece is that they have the force of a gun and handcuffs behind them.

A private capitalist only has your patronage and nothing else. If you choose to withhold it, nothing happens to your freedom.

Free markets and government entities are not the same thing. You know this, right? Civics and Econ 101, right?

Good Lt on August 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

Any public plan, will eventually drive all private insurers out of business.

MarkTheGreat on August 18, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Tell that to all the europeans that get supplimental private insurance to bring them up to a ‘gold plated’ standard.

ernesto on August 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Scarborough missed a golden opportunity to slam-dunk this clown. The key was to divide the question:

1) Mr. Weiner, you say the insurance companies bring no value to the table. How then do you explain the fact that tens of millions of people who aren’t required to buy health insurance, nonetheless do so? Obviously they provide value, or tens of millions of people who are free NOT to buy it, wouldn’t be doing so.

2) Since when is it within the government’s authority to decide whether an industry lives or dies, based solely on politicians’ judgement about whether the industry brings any value to the market?

People like Weiner should be rudely escorted to the stocks and left to be ridiculed by scornful villagers.

greggriffith on August 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Yeah, it would almost be as bad as the 10% of medicare funds that are lost to fraud and embezzlement every year…oh wait that does not fit the narrative…never mind

True, but Obama even addressing that issue was part of the fuel for the Townhall rebellion.

This is stuff that is so hard to talk about!

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM

To me? This is as naive as single-payer proponents. If I never hear one more speech about getting lobbyists out, it’ll be heaven. Check the obits. I’m sure I’m dead.

If we let insurers cross state lines without having a proven oversight system?

You can just watch the scams unfold faster than on-line gamboling.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:21 PM

Uh, if an insurer breaks their contract with you then you can rightfully and successfully sue them to get what was agreed upon.

If the government decides you don’t get your hip replacement for 3 years you have no recourse. You can’t sue the federal government and you’ll quickly find that healthcare is no longer a right but a service provided by the government.

gwelf on August 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM

NickelAndDime on August 18, 2009 at 1:26 PM

point taken, but I do hope they are collecting all this info once 2010 comes around…I guess my fear is that they won’t use it, they’ll play nice

cmsinaz on August 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Weiner….’nuff said.

“Heh, heh…you said weiner”…apologies to Beavis

joepub on August 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM

what a weiner….

PatriotRider on August 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Tell that to all the europeans that get supplimental private insurance to bring them up to a ‘gold plated’ standard.

ernesto on August 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM

So only the rich in Europe can get real healthcare? I thought this was the scenario we were trying to desperately avoid with ObamaCare?

gwelf on August 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Rep. Weinie slipped up and told the bare naked truth. This is why we cannot allow a healthcare bill to pass that opens the door even a crack. Within a year, it will be a full blown government takeover and America will be a completely socialist/communist country.

Star20 on August 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Tell that to all the europeans that get supplimental private insurance to bring them up to a ‘gold plated’ standard.

They also have lower survival rates for cancer than we do in our primitive, cave-man like system. And their care is rationed by the government. And they have chronic unemployment near 10% across Europe.

Kind of like Obama’s Amerika.

Go figure.

Good Lt on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

That doesn’t mean that CAPITALISM has failed. That means that dishonest people who try to make dishonest profits try to rip you off.

Oh yes, I’m sorry, but I saw my entire savings disappear into this last meltdown.

I’ve saved my entire life, and it disappeared.

I’m philosophical. It was always a risk, but don’t even try to tell me that this system works.

Every friend I know has seen their savings go up in smoke.

A lifetime of work…..gone.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Every so often the truth a gaffe slips out.

Drained Brain on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

I think a lot of the skyrocketing costs boils down to bad hospital administrators. A lack of talent, in other words.
i think some can be attributed to 20 years of people going into this field to make money rather than be healers.
I think part of the problem is corporatism taking over. MBA’s replaced people in the field.
In short, a bunch of stuff.
AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

How would it get any better with a huge government bureaucracy?

Chainsaw56 on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

The Dead Terrorist on August 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM

well said there

cmsinaz on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

If the premiums keep skyrocketing and the benefits keep shrinking?

The corporatists are damaging democracy. That, I can see.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:17 PM

You know what is skyrocketing at a faster rate? First class postage. And now, the USPS is debating which services to cut back. Interesting.

Vashta.Nerada on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

No, I think there’s a variety of factors, Darwin. I think a lot of local hospitals got into buying very expensive testing equipment and couldn’t afford it.

I think a lot of the skyrocketing costs boils down to bad hospital administrators. A lack of talent, in other words.

i think some can be attributed to 20 years of people going into this field to make money rather than be healers.

I think part of the problem is corporatism taking over. MBA’s replaced people in the field.

In short, a bunch of stuff.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

You’re becoming a joke. It’s obvious you’re doing everything you can to avoid the elephant in the room … that government is the main cause of rising health care.

“Why can you believe it? That hospital bought an MRI! How dare they buy equipment that cuts out exploratory surgery!”

“Wait until AnninCA hears this””

darwin on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Who is that lady in blue? Is she Mrs. Scarborough, just there to support her man with her smile? Or is she a speechless Lib? What does MSNBC pay her to do? Finally, who are the fools who voted for this Tony Weiner? Fools.

redwhiteblue on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

I only have one question for this Marxist, “what next?”

After they takeover health care what is their next target? Retirement planning industry, 401ks, IRAs, pensions?

Where does it end? Does it?

DerKrieger on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

awesome. change the debate and make obama look centrist. the battle has been joined.

sesquipedalian on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

His career in public service is over.

He told the truth about his intentions.

notagool on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Weiner is a dick.

JohnJ on August 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM

The Dead Terrorist on August 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM

well said there

cmsinaz on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Thank you… I have just come to the breaking point with this mess, and can’t afford to be quiet any more!

The Dead Terrorist on August 18, 2009 at 1:33 PM

awesome. change the debate and make obama look centrist. the battle has been joined.

sesquipedalian on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

^
Wow … desperation shows itself in the strangest ways.

darwin on August 18, 2009 at 1:33 PM

Oh yes, I’m sorry, but I saw my entire savings disappear into this last meltdown.

I’ve saved my entire life, and it disappeared.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Your “savings”? You had over $100,000 in one bank (only an idiot would have done that, anyway) and lost it when the bank went under?

Or did you lose money in the market, which has risks associated with it, as anyone with more than two brain cells knows?

If you wanted security, why didn’t you put your wealth into Treasuries? Are you just a moron? Or do you like complaining about your own stupidity and blaming everyone else for it?

progressoverpeace on August 18, 2009 at 1:33 PM

Of course the media supports Weiner’s goal, so we won’t see every last Dem going on a talking head show having to run the gauntlet of “Let me play you a videobite …. Do you agree with Weiner?”

Dusty on August 18, 2009 at 1:34 PM

True, but Obama even addressing that issue was part of the fuel for the Townhall rebellion.

This is stuff that is so hard to talk about!

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Its not hard. You mean its inconvenient to talk about because, to admit an additional problem with an already bankrupt government entitlement negates the entire argument about how much better and cost effective it will be when we are all slaves of the government.

elduende on August 18, 2009 at 1:35 PM

The Dead Terrorist on August 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Too long.

DarkCurrent on August 18, 2009 at 1:36 PM

By Weiner’s logic if private insurers bring nothing to the health care table then it stands to reason that the government should take over auto, home, in fact all insurance. The underlying principles are the same.

Here’s a link to the original blueprint for today’s universal health care from 1939…after reading it, tell me what the differences are.

http://www.oswaldmosley.com/buf-medical-policy.htm

patrick neid on August 18, 2009 at 1:36 PM

barack obama doesn’t want the weiner plan

gatorboy on August 18, 2009 at 1:04 PM

That’s not what I heard.

TXMomof3 on August 18, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Joe kept asking at the end “How do you control the cost and rising cost, given the demographics ect…”

The obvious answer that the Dems want to avoid is RATIONED HEALTH CARE!!

jbinnout on August 18, 2009 at 1:36 PM

I, for one, welcome out new insect overlords. Bring on the death panels.

Trent1289 on August 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Trent1289 Brockman?

NickelAndDime on August 18, 2009 at 1:36 PM

CrankyIndependent (erroneously) proclaims: “Folks who are in larger pools, i.e. big corporations or state governments have lower costing better healthcare. The proof is in the pudding.”

The proof is in the pudding, Cranky??? THAT must be why Obama slipped the other day and admitted FedEx and UPS were doing ‘just fine’ thank you – whereas the U.S. Post Office was having real problems.

Cranky, The One you adore was unwittingly making the point: When given the same task, PRIVATE ENTERPRISE IS SUCCESSFUL; GOVERNMENT ON THE OTHER HAND IS DISASTROUSLY AND SPECTACULARLY INEPT.

alwyr on August 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM

He wants a government monopoly as “competition for private insurance companies.” Awesome.

29Victor on August 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM

Oh yes, I’m sorry, but I saw my entire savings disappear into this last meltdown.

Operative word: MY.

That’s not my problem or responsibility. It is ultimately YOURS. You play in the market, there’s risk. Those are the rules, and you knew it going in. Don’t blame (and try to fine) “society” for what you chose to do with you money.

I’ve saved my entire life, and it disappeared.

How does something disappear unless you spend it or invest it? Sounds like you made some bad investments.

That’s, again, not everyone else’s fault, and they’re not to be made scapegoats to pay for it.

I’m philosophical. It was always a risk, but don’t even try to tell me that this system works.

It didn’t work FOR YOU. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone else and therefore should be destroyed or “CHANGEd.” You’re trying to remove yourself from all of this, and you can’t do it. You’re in the driver’s seat – you make the decisions about where to put your $$$. It’s not our fault that it didn’t work out.

Tough luck, kid. Try again.

Every friend I know has seen their savings go up in smoke.

What are all of your friends doing? Investing in pets.com? And why did you put ALL of it in investment? It doesn’t even sound like you had savings.

STOP PUTTING YOUR MONEY IN THE MARKET IF YOU DON’T WANT TO LOSE IT ALL. SAVE IT INSTEAD.

A lifetime of work…..gone.

No, a lifetime of your “savings” gone…by your choice.

See how this works? YOU are responsible for your money and your well-being – not “society.” If you make bad decisions with your $$$, that’s not the fault of your fellow citizens.

Tough medicine to swallow, but you can handle it.

Good Lt on August 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM

If you wanted security, why didn’t you put your wealth into Treasuries? Are you just a moron? Or do you like complaining about your own stupidity and blaming everyone else for it?

Spoken like someone who had no retirement plan ever.

And hence, here we all are.

East meets West.

No, you nitwit, I haven’t lost money in a closed bank. I had a typical retirement plan based on 401K and private investments, which all dumped.

You people don’t seem to really get what’s happened in this country.

Amazing.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM

barack obama doesn’t want the weiner plan

gatorboy on August 18, 2009 at 1:04 PM

No, but Barney Frank sure does ;).

29Victor on August 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM

awesome. change the debate and make obama look centrist. the battle has been joined.

sesquipedalian on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

ROTFLMAO!

elduende on August 18, 2009 at 1:38 PM

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

Hey AnninCA,

I found another article about those “poor people” you are so, very, worried about. I like the term Kathy shaidle coined for them. We need to quit calling them the poor, and start calling them the “broke”.

DFCtomm on August 18, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Rep. Weeeiner is very articulate at stating his distain for insurance companies and that’s about it. In his view, they do nothing??? Come on, this guy is not that stupid is he? A suspect the insurance companies didn’t contribute enough to his campaign. People don’t want the government messing with their healthcare simply because they know the government will screw it up.
 
I’ve got an idea. Why don’t they prove the federal government can fix something, one thing, and make it better before they take on something this massive. BO could have focused on making government better, instead he’s focused on making it bigger, more powerful, and more profitable for politicians, unions, trial lawyers…

ClanDerson on August 18, 2009 at 1:39 PM

barack obama doesn’t want the weiner plan

gatorboy on August 18, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Barney Fwank is okay with it.

ICBM on August 18, 2009 at 1:39 PM

In short, a bunch of stuff.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM

The government is certainly the answer then. They’re not know for buying expensive equipment we don’t need. They just want to be healers.

DarkCurrent on August 18, 2009 at 1:39 PM

The RNC should remain silent. Steele et al should not say anything. If they do, it might salvage the failing false narrative of Republican astroturfing.

Let the people and the nodes of communication (Blogs and think tanks like Cato) do the talking truth to power. They are loosing this battle but the war is far from over.

Holger on August 18, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Anything with a cost is a commodity, by definition.

I don’t agree. I think a commodity is something that has a cost and that is available from multiple sources. You can buy the equivalent thing from source A or source B, the only difference being the price they charge. If there’s only one place/person in the world you can get it from, it’s no longer a commodity.

Health care insurance, though, fits that definition.

Socratease on August 18, 2009 at 1:39 PM

I saw my entire savings disappear into this last meltdown.

I’ve saved my entire life, and it disappeared.

I’m philosophical. It was always a risk, but don’t even try to tell me that this system works.

Every friend I know has seen their savings go up in smoke.

A lifetime of work…..gone.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Well, I didn’t lose my investments, so it isn’t the system…

Vashta.Nerada on August 18, 2009 at 1:39 PM

What’s fascinating to me?

You guys are just like the lefties. You have zero concept of what’s happened to the middle-class.

People are petrified, broke, and you’re still interpreting polls like nothing has changed.

Everything has changed.

An entire generation of workers lost their 401K plans.

That’s just not going to go away.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM

No, you nitwit, I haven’t lost money in a closed bank. I had a typical retirement plan based on 401K and private investments, which all dumped.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM

I have a 401 and when I saw what the market was doing I made changes to avoid any more losses. You could have done the same. Instead you want to blame “evil” business. What’s funny is that you don’t blame them when you make money … only when you lose it.

darwin on August 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Joe couldn’t destroy this guy? Weak.

marklmail on August 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM

sesquipedalian on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

At this point, nobody will ever believe Obama is a Centrist or has ever been a Centrist. His mask has been dropped. That’s why his numbers are tanking, horse lover.

kingsjester on August 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM

point taken, but I do hope they are collecting all this info once 2010 comes around…I guess my fear is that they won’t use it, they’ll play nice

cmsinaz on August 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Agreed. Maybe that’s the problem right now, Republican media department is drinking idiocies from the Dem firehose right now.

NickelAndDime on August 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

Well, I didn’t lose my investments, so it isn’t the system…

Pray tell, were you invested in banks? They came back. :)

And yes, that’s a trap question.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

Oh yes, I’m sorry, but I saw my entire savings disappear into this last meltdown.

I’ve saved my entire life, and it disappeared.

I’m philosophical. It was always a risk, but don’t even try to tell me that this system works.

Every friend I know has seen their savings go up in smoke.

A lifetime of work…..gone.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:30 PM

So the government encourages banks to make loans that have a higher likelihood of failure and facilitates the securitization of the debt via Freddi/Fanny and lo and behold banks will give out money when the government says it will back it and spread the risk to everyone so it’s all ok. And if you don’t agree ACORN will show up and give you a refresher on what happens to banks who don’t like this progressive program. And lo and behold when the whole thing crashes and burns government says it wasn’t at fault – it’s those dirty capitalists you see – but decides to dump tons of money into the banks.

If you think the recent recession was caused by capitalism then you don’t understand what happened.

gwelf on August 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

Why do you people waste your time on AnninCA? You will never change her and it’s obvious she’s an idiot.

DerKrieger on August 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

I have a 401 and when I saw what the market was doing I made changes to avoid any more losses. You could have done the same. Instead you want to blame “evil” business. What’s funny is that you don’t blame them when you make money … only when you lose it.

What did you do? Invest in gold?

*haha

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

Weiner is wrong for the reasons Ed so eloquently articulated, but at least he is honest about what he wants. His honesty allows for us to provide a reasoned response. And more importantly, when liberals honestly state what they want, their ideas are generally defeated.

That is why Obama ran as a centrist during the general election campaign last year. He knew that if he actually articulated what he believed, the voters would most likely reject him. Unfortunately for us, the mainstream press had no desire to call him on his past statements, so the vast majority of the electorate who only pay attention to politics in the run up to elections had no idea who they were voting for.

Bru on August 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

What will Congress do without health insurers taxes, and campaign contributions ?

Jeff2161 on August 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

I have a 401 and when I saw what the market was doing I made changes to avoid any more losses. You could have done the same. Instead you want to blame “evil” business. What’s funny is that you don’t blame them when you make money … only when you lose it.

darwin on August 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Yep, did the same thing. Contained losses to ~10%

NickelAndDime on August 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

You guys are just like the lefties. You have zero concept of what’s happened to the middle-class.

People are petrified, broke, and you’re still interpreting polls like nothing has changed.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM

The lefties’ natural enemy is the middle class. Re-read Marx. Conservatives are the middle class.

People aren’t upset because they lost money. They are upset because they are losing freedom, and their so-called representatives in government aren’t representing them.

Vashta.Nerada on August 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

You guys are just like the lefties. You have zero concept of what’s happened to the middle-class.

And by middle class, you mean YOU?

I’m in the MC, and remained there despite Obama’s attempts to destroy the economy.

Guess you’re going redefine “middle class” to mean something else, then.

People are petrified, broke, and you’re still interpreting polls like nothing has changed.

WHERE’S ALL THE HOPE N CHANGE FROM OBAMA? I thought he and the government were the answers we’ve all been waiting for.

Guess not. Looks like you’re screwed.

Everything has changed.

An entire generation of workers lost their 401K plans.

And they’re right back at it replenishing. Looks like real estate – coupled with massive government antimarket regulations – screwed you.

Call Barney Frank and the creeps at Fannie and Freddie if you have a problem. It’s their fault.

That’s just not going to go away.

Sure, sure. We’re waiting for the “revolution” still. It’s taking its sweet time, though.

Good Lt on August 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

This is John Galt knocking… is anybody there? When are all these “Bro-Bama” cultist going to wake up and realize this isn’t about them? It is completely about subverting the masses. They are purposely destroying the middle class just so they can make everybody a serf.
The screams you hear at town halls across what remains of this great nation are cries from the pit saying, “I WILL NOT GO QUIETLY IN TO THE NIGHT”! We better make our stand here and now, or they will loot our money, pride, culture, religion, and blood until there is nothing left. And if you doubt what I am saying, look at your history. Show me a nation anywhere in the world that has or has had a socialist government thrive, exceed, and prosper for not only their nation, but for the world community as a whole. And don’t throw China in my face… They would not exist for one second without the brains, and the economic power of the USA. If we go down, everybody goes down with us!

Remember… WE THE PEOPLE are the ones who built this country to the greatest power on earth in less than 200 years, and did it without conquering a government, or stealing its wealth to build and elitist class to rule. (Do you hear me France, Germany, Italy, Russia, etc)

WE THE PEOPLE are at the brink and they know it. They think if they just push a little more, they can send us back into the abyss and silence us. However, they have forgotten one thing… we have a piece of paper called the constitution that has the 1st and 2nd amendment in it. It will be a cold day in hell before they are able to physically remove either one of those two things… laws or no laws. We will not be quiet, and we will defend ourselves and our families. To the biter end.

The Dead Terrorist on August 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Well said!

Your points were worth repeating – so I tried a hum-fisted job of excepting some of the main points – sorry if it didn’t come out as good as the original posting.

Chainsaw56 on August 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

What did you do? Invest in gold?

*haha

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

Bonds. I thought you were a banking exec?

Vashta.Nerada on August 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Spoken like someone who had no retirement plan ever.

You had the world’s only retirement plan that didn’t allow treasuries?

And hence, here we all are.

East meets West.

No, morons like you meet the real world … and complain about your own stupidity.

No, you nitwit, I haven’t lost money in a closed bank.

I knew that, nitwit. But, I should have known that someone as dumb as you would not recognize sarcasm.

I had a typical retirement plan based on 401K and private investments, which all dumped.

Yep … They wouldn’t let you buy trasuries … I’m sure (/SARCASM – This is a SARCASM tag. That last line was SARCASTIC. WARNING! WARNING! SARCASM in the last line, Ann.)

You people don’t seem to really get what’s happened in this country.

Amazing.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM

LOL. You are unreal. I’m amazed someone of your limited intellect made it past puberty.

progressoverpeace on August 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

What did you do? Invest in gold?

*haha

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

No. Apparently you were content to watch your money evaporate instead of doing something about it.

The blame is entirely on you, and now you want the American taxpayer to pay for your existence. Oh and illegals, you want that too.

But you know, if you had bought gold a while back you could have easily doubled your investment.

darwin on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Bonds. I thought you were a banking exec?

She probably was a bookie at Fannie/Freddie with the way it looks like her investments panned out.

Good Lt on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Why do you people waste your time on AnninCA? You will never change her and it’s obvious she’s an idiot.

Honestly, it’s not about me, personally. Disagree or think I’m an idiot is fine with me.

But you’re still missing the point if you don’t think the economic meltdown is relevant in people’s lives.

That is the real national discussion.

Should an entire generation just live in poverty and without healthcare because we elected bad government who blew our entire savings on bad wars and bad policies?

Seriously. It’s a very legitimate question for people.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

The Middle Class is basically the Kulaks. Half way between the Burgeoise and the Proletariat. And as America is predominantly middle class, you gotta destroy the country to remake it in Marx’s image.

This is class warfare upon the American people and Liberty.

Holger on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

What did you do? Invest in gold?
*haha
AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

Ammo and canned goods are also a good choice.

Chainsaw56 on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

What did you do? Invest in gold?

*haha

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

All 401s are required by law to have a “safe” plan that is the equivalent of a checking account. My money is sitting in one at this very moment waiting for the next substantial dip.

DFCtomm on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Jeff2161: Answer: Plaintiffs’ lawyers.

GaltBlvnAtty on August 18, 2009 at 1:46 PM

David Axelrod is the most dangerous man in America.

ndulik on August 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM

Pray tell, were you invested in banks? They came back. :)

And yes, that’s a trap question.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

No, bonds and contra stocks

Vashta.Nerada on August 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM

awesome. change the debate and make obama look centrist. the battle has been joined.

sesquipedalian on August 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM

At least you admit Obama is not a centrist.

You’re smoking something if you think the socialization of healthcare isn’t being widely associated with Obama. People are pretty much aware that Obama farms out the actual policy making to Congress and spends most his time as a salesman for whatever they come up with – it’s his face that’s being splashed up on the tv every night as the father of the healthcare bill. People are now becoming familiar enough with Obama that they know what he really wants – if things collapse he won’t be able to distance himself from his real views by blaming Congress.

gwelf on August 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM

Tell that to all the europeans that get supplimental private insurance to bring them up to a ‘gold plated’ standard.

ernesto on August 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Hello generalization! Not all healthcare is delivered in exactly the same way throughout Europe. 80% of the French have supplemental insurance. UK citizens until recently were denied healthcare if they tried to buy private insurance to supplement the NHS. I have not read an article on that topic in awhile they may still face that threat. Switzerland has a individual mandate but healthcare is delivered privately.

When Democrats claim that they want competition and that the haelathcare provided will not be subsidised and will have to compete is a joke. There is not a single profitable NGO in existence. The healthcare will be funded by defecit spending anyone who believes otherwise is willfully ignorant or just born that way. Private insurance will not be driven out of existence but to near extinction. Wealthier people will still be able to afford it.

Theworldisnotenough on August 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM

Whoa! It sounded to me like that Weiner said that if your’re not providing a govt. service you are not providing value.

And where did he get that 30% overhead number from?

Touting medicare’s supposedly low overhead while it’s going bankrupt seems rather stupid. Let alone the possiblity of up to 20% fraud and it’s rules that raise healthcare costs.

aikidoka on August 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM

The Middle Class is basically the Kulaks. Half way between the Burgeoise and the Proletariat. And as America is predominantly middle class, you gotta destroy the country to remake it in Marx’s image.

This is class warfare upon the American people and Liberty.

Holger on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Incorrect. Marx defined the bourgeoise as the middle class, the enemy that had to be destroyed in order for communism to work.

Vashta.Nerada on August 18, 2009 at 1:48 PM

Should an entire generation just live in poverty and without healthcare because we elected bad government who blew our entire savings on bad wars and bad policies?

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Wow, there’s a microcosum of crazy.

In response: No. But we also shouldn’t attempt to rearchitect 1/6th of our economy and the foundations of our freedoms in 3 weeks either.

NickelAndDime on August 18, 2009 at 1:48 PM

The very existence of these communists in positions where they have any authority over our lives equates to the worst terrorist attack on America that is imaginable.

Destroying the free enterprise system, which their very presence does on the supposition that they even might succeed at their agenda, is a thousand times the offense of the 9/11 attacks, and should be answered accordingly.

Buddahpundit on August 18, 2009 at 1:48 PM

Why do you people waste your time on AnninCA? You will never change her and it’s obvious she’s an idiot.
DerKrieger on August 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

Yes, but in her defense, at least she’s willing to engage in a conversation, unlike others that shall be nameless.

Chainsaw56 on August 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM

TXMomof3 on August 18, 2009 at 1:36 PM

I’ve heard the same thing but so far no hard evidence. He’s definitely a metrosexual, though. ;-)

TXUS on August 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Should an entire generation just live in poverty and without healthcare because we elected bad government who blew our entire savings on bad wars and bad policies?

WTF?

There was no “SAVINGS” heald by our “politicians” for us.

It wasn’t “bad wars” that caused the economic slowdown.

An “entire generation” is not “living without health care.”

Are you starting to see why you’re being called an idiot around here (besides the fact that you lost all your money for some reason and think it’s our responsibility to compensate you somehow?)

FACTS MATTER. Money talks and bullsh*t walks. And what you’re offering is what your President has been offering – bullsh*t.

Good Lt on August 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM

My investments were all in fortune 100 companies and solid as a rock. Long-term investments.

Until the meltdown.

A large portion was in bonds.

The point I’m making? A lot of people were relying upon what was pushed in the last decades to 401K retirement plans.

Private was the solution pushed!

They don’t have traditional retirement plans with set pensions.

And a lot of them are now in danger of losing it all.

This is not fair or the American dream. These people worked hard their entire lives.

Can you honestly say this is fair?

It isn’t.

It just isn’t.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Should an entire generation just live in poverty and without healthcare because we elected bad government who blew our entire savings on bad wars and bad policies?

Seriously. It’s a very legitimate question for people.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Understand this. Bad things happen all the time. Life is unfair. It’s not the government’s job to bail people out of bad circumstances.

That’s what family, friends, church and charity are for. Use them sparingly.

darwin on August 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM

“…to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.” (part of military oath)
Can we now consider Weiner to be a domestic enemy?
My God, what must his district look like that he feels safe spouting this crap?

SKYFOX on August 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM

Rep. Weiner is out of touch! New York, please vote this guy out in 2010!
Remember President Clinton’s – meaning of IS IS? Weiner’s insurance takeover comment IS insurance takeover.

Throw the Health Care Plan out!!!!

yoda on August 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM

Yes, but in her defense, at least she’s willing to engage in a conversation, unlike others that shall be nameless.

Well, thanks, although I often do agree with the “stupid” label.

Smart people don’t show up for abuse! LOL*

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:51 PM

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Hey … you weren’t complaining when you were making money, so don’t complain when things go south. You took the risk.

darwin on August 18, 2009 at 1:52 PM

My investments were all in fortune 100 companies and solid as a rock. Long-term investments.

Until the meltdown.

A large portion was in bonds.

Then you didn’t lose it all. Perhaps a lesson in how to read financial statements is in order.

Can you honestly say this is fair?

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Fair? What is fair is that you get what you deserve, not that you get the same as everyone else, especially if others are brought down to the lowest common denominator in the effort.

Vashta.Nerada on August 18, 2009 at 1:53 PM

The point I’m making? A lot of people were relying upon what was pushed in the last decades to 401K retirement plans.

Private was the solution pushed!

They don’t have traditional retirement plans with set pensions.

And a lot of them are now in danger of losing it all.

This is not fair or the American dream. These people worked hard their entire lives.

Can you honestly say this is fair?

It isn’t.

It just isn’t.

AnninCA on August 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Not everybody lost. I know you will find this hard to believe but some people pulled their 401s out of the dangerous plans before it all crashed, and now have made over %40 since the first of the year.

DFCtomm on August 18, 2009 at 1:53 PM

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