Drudge: Democrats ready to go it alone on ObamaCare? Update: NYT link added

posted at 9:22 pm on August 18, 2009 by Allahpundit

A teaser for an NYT bombshell due out later. Normally I wouldn’t post on it until the article’s up but this can only mean that they’re going to go all out for the public option and use “reconciliation” if need be to nuke the filibuster in the Senate, no? Why cut the GOP out of negotiations only to settle for some watered-down alternative like co-ops? If you’re going to kick the minority party out of the room and anger half the country, you might as well make the bill as syrupy sweet to your own side as possible. And if that means having to take a precedent-setting step as draconian as reconciliation to deal with Blue Dogs like Ben Nelson who might not accept a public option, hey. Besides, Grassley and Jon Kyl all but told the Democrats today that they won’t vote for the final bill regardless of what’s in it, in which case it’s pointless for The One to keep making concessions. He might as well get the bill he wants, paint the GOP as “the party of no”, and hope that the inevitable ill effects of his program don’t appear before the midterms. Which they probably won’t.

While we wait for the Times piece, a few fun data points from the new NBC poll out tonight. Note the numbers on question 15. The One’s really rolling the dice here.

Update: Here’s the NYT piece. Nothing concrete.

[S]uch a change could alter the dynamic of talks surrounding health care legislation, and even change the substance of a final bill. With no need to negotiate with Republicans, Democrats might be better able to move more quickly, relying on their large majorities in both houses. Democratic senators might feel more empowered, for example, to define the authority of the nonprofit insurance cooperatives that are emerging as an alternative to a public insurance plan…

Administration officials, who maintain that Republicans are badly mischaracterizing the legislation that has emerged from three House committees and the Senate health committee, said they had hoped to achieve some level of bipartisan support. But they are becoming increasingly convinced that they will instead have to navigate the complicated politics among varying Democratic factions.

The officials said the White House hoped to make the case to the American people that it was Republicans who had abandoned the effort at bipartisanship. Republicans countered by saying that they simply opposed the legislation and that the public outcry had validated their view and solidified their opposition.

One senior administration official said the sense within the White House was that Republicans, in an effort to undermine President Obama and Congressional Democrats, had made a political calculation to oppose any health care legislation.

Thus did a party that no longer has enough Senate seats to pull a filibuster somehow become an obstructionist, utopia-destroying leviathan. Belated exit question: Is this all just a ruse by The One to put pressure on the Blue Dogs to accept a public option? Symbolically kicking the GOP out of the negotiations leaves the media free to focus on conservative Democrats as the true stumbling block to universal health care. Ironically, the “go it alone” move may be aimed more at his own side than at the GOP.


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Please let them go nuclear, can you imagine the backlash in 2010. The Republicans must already be cutting their political adds, using Obama calling Cambridge police stupid. They could have different add up for each day of the week with all the material the Democrats are handing them. People magazine and Oprah sofa warmers are not interested in anything so dull as to vote for senators and representatives off Presidential year. “Watch how Obama got elected” they don’t know who those people are or what they do anyway…but the opposition does. If we can tip the Senate and the House, then start investigations on all of these people, it will finally be tax payer money well spent.

Dr Evil on August 19, 2009 at 12:20 AM

Furniture! Can you imagine having to sleep on a ratty old mattress or eat you dinner off of a tv tray?

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM

Employment would be a right too!

Oh, wait…who needs employment when you can get your rights satisfied for free!

misslizzi on August 19, 2009 at 12:21 AM

Housing too…

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM

Section 8 housing.

We already have government subsidies for most of the bare essentials that an individual or family needs to get by on…. health care isn’t that much of a stretch, is it?

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:22 AM

Housing too…and clothing, can’t forget clothing. Government controlled housing and clothing for one and all; line up for a 6′x10′ space and a pair of quilted overalls.

Furniture! Can you imagine having to sleep on a ratty old mattress or eat you dinner off of a tv tray?

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM

Oh, yeah. And transportation. That is an absolute right. Can’t enjoy all the other stuff without a good car.

And guaranteed sex. For all. Can’t live without it, people have been ruined financially over it, so government-run brothels are a must. Or at least government-sponsored hookups.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:22 AM

At what point did Health Care become a God given right, a man given right, or any other kind of right? One thing is for certain… they didn’t tell the doctors. Under the statement that Health Care is a right, this supposes that there will be doctors there to administer treatment. (Notice I didn’t say good doctors, or good treatment)

For all of you demanding that your health care be “free”… let me know how you’re a going to demand that a doctor take care of you. That is a highly aquired skill, and you can’t go just pick somebody off a “doctor tree” and say, “Hey… take care of me”!

The Dead Terrorist on August 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Section 8 housing.

We already have government subsidies for most of the bare essentials that an individual or family needs to get by on…. health care isn’t that much of a stretch, is it?

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:22 AM

But I’m not elegible for Section 8 housing! My rights are being violated!

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM

*eligible

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Dr Evil on August 19, 2009 at 12:20 AM

Like Axelrod in the palm of the drug lobby and the usual suspects who favor Obamacare?

coldwarrior on August 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Give me the Rep chair and I’d have every single Richard walking down the steps of the Capitol the day of the vote.
Then a quick drive over to Richmond, Virginia to issue a statement about not coming back for a spell.

Limerick on August 19, 2009 at 12:24 AM

But I’m not elegible for Section 8 housing! My rights are being violated!

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM

You don’t qualify because you’re fortunate enough to live in mom and dad’s 3 bedroom house.

You’ll probably qualify on that Arby’s income when you finally do move out.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:26 AM

But I’m not elegible for Section 8 housing! My rights are being violated!

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM
You don’t qualify because you’re fortunate enough to live in mom and dad’s 3 bedroom house.

You’ll probably qualify on that Arby’s income when you finally do move out.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:26 AM

Nah, that’s not my situation. But what if it were? Don’t you have compassion and concern that someone’s free housing rights are being violated?

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:27 AM

Even though there is no concrete health reform bill to vote on, the idea of a single-payer program is similar. If you have health insurance, you don’t need to be on the government-subsidized program. If you need health care, you can apply and get your free government subsidized health care. I think you still have to pay a small portion of the cost – the rest is up to the taxpayers, just like food stamps.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:19 AM

Completely wrong.

Single Payer refers to a one stop shop for all your food needs. There would be no grocery stores or 7-11s. There’d be the government store and it would provide you with all the food the government thinks you need and you pay through them.

But that’s not what’s in the current bill.

In the current bill, there is no single payer.
There WILL be a government insurance plan that will compete with private insurance. Except that private insurance will have to provide whatever the public insurance provides. You can’t go below minimum. If you ever leave your private insurance you MUST go on the government insurance. If you elect not to take public insurance, citizen, then you will be charged for NOT taking the service.

Explain to me how ANY OF THIS is just like “food stamps”?

Skywise on August 19, 2009 at 12:27 AM

The entitlement mentality in this country makes me sick.

disa on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM

Even though there is no concrete health reform bill to vote on, the idea of a single-payer program is similar. If you have health insurance, you don’t need to be on the government-subsidized program. If you need health care, you can apply and get your free government subsidized health care. I think you still have to pay a small portion of the cost – the rest is up to the taxpayers, just like food stamps.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:19 AM

Uh, don’t we already have that in, um, Medicaid?

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM

My mother-in-law rents some of her rental properties to Section 8 people. Not surprisingly, they always seem to trash her place in the last few months of their stay. Carpet replacement is the norm.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM

Like Axelrod in the palm of the drug lobby and the usual suspects who favor Obamacare?

coldwarrior on August 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Lets hope the Republicans are on a working vacation.

Has anyone noticed it was Sarah Palin who fired that missile at Obamacare with her facebook. I don’t think she just pulled that trigger by herself. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out they are coordinating with each other. The thing about being the party out of power, they really don’t have anything to lose, and it frees them up.

Dr Evil on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM

Explain to me how ANY OF THIS is just like “food stamps”?

Skywise on August 19, 2009 at 12:27 AM

Both unconstitutional?

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:31 AM

Section 8 housing.
We already have government subsidies for most of the bare essentials that an individual or family needs to get by on…. health care isn’t that much of a stretch, is it?
welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:22 AM

You must not understand the rules of the game you created. Now see here, food stamps, S8 housing, welfare…those aren’t available to everyone, there are structured limits which define who can have them and who can’t. Ok, so the rules have been explained.

Are you prepared to have the Federal Government control the national food supply, considering that you will most definitely die within days, or at the most weeks, without food? What about housing? Let the feds decide where you will live?

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:32 AM

Has anyone noticed it was Sarah Palin who fired that missile at Obamacare with her facebook. I don’t think she just pulled that trigger by herself.

No, I have no reason to think she needs the RNC to tell her what to say. Or do you think she’s too stoopid?

disa on August 19, 2009 at 12:33 AM

Food stamps are government subsidized hand-outs given to those that are at or below the poverty line.

Government health insurance is a subsidized hand-out given to those that don’t make enough money to afford their own private health insurance.

They differ in the since that food stamps are (hopefully) a temporary relief – government health insurance is permanent.

I personally disagree with fining people for not being on one or the other. It should not be forced upon the population. I have been been far poorer in my life but never elected to get food stamps – these programs should all be voluntary and for those that truly need them.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:34 AM

If you need health care, you can apply and get your free government subsidized health care.

Classic. Sums up the liberal mindset perfectly.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:35 AM

Government health insurance is a subsidized hand-out given to those that don’t make enough money to afford their own private health insurance.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:34 AM

except that is not what is 3200. Fail…again.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 12:36 AM

Uh, don’t we already have that in, um, Medicaid?

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM

Yep – in essence, we should extend that program to all citizens, not just a selected minority.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:36 AM

Has anyone noticed it was Sarah Palin who fired that missile at Obamacare with her facebook. I don’t think she just pulled that trigger by herself.
Dr Evil on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM

No, I have no reason to think she needs the RNC to tell her what to say. Or do you think she’s too stoopid?

disa on August 19, 2009 at 12:33 AM

I don’t think the RNC could coordinate something like that. The RNC and GOP are just going for ride right now on the coat tails of this awakening.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:36 AM

Government health insurance is a subsidized hand-out given to those that don’t make enough money to afford their own private health insurance.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:34 AM

Which we’ve had for nearly 50 years now. It’s called Medicaid.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:37 AM

The Blue Dogs will duck and weave, then cave as quietly as possible. This bill will pass with only cosmetic changes. Count on it.

spmat on August 19, 2009 at 12:37 AM

Which we’ve had for nearly 50 years now. It’s called Medicaid.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:37 AM

and god knows that is a marvel of quality and efficieny

/sarc

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Temper, temper.

crr6 on August 18, 2009 at 11:27 PM

With all due respect -which you don’t garner much on your history- you sound like Barney Frank this evening at his townhall. Good luck with that. Are you willing to push people to extreme measures to keep up your party line? You’re losing among the populace and don’t even realize it. Party over the people is all your kind is about. You don’t even realize that “this is not your Father’s Oldsmobile”. The Democrat party has been hijacked while you were out for a drink. A long one at that. Anyway…. You’re all the same because you think you’re smarter than the people that have built this country under individuality. Pretty sick if you ask me. Not to mention arrogant and insensitive. Yes, insensitive. I thought you were all about feelings? Where are we now, oh feeling ones?

MarkABinVA on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Uh, don’t we already have that in, um, Medicaid?

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Yep – in essence, we should extend that program to all citizens, not just a selected minority.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:36 AM

“All citizens”? But you just said that only those who can’t afford private insurance should be eligible.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Government health insurance is a subsidized hand-out given to those that don’t make enough money to afford their own private health insurance.

Wait…what? You must not be up to date on the five current bills under consideration, not that I blame you, the President isn’t either.

You do understand that the current legislation is geared toward, as we are being told, becoming a competitive program to that of private insurers? That the stipulations in the current bills allow for more than just those below the poverty line to enroll?

You need to try harder, a lot harder.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:39 AM

The Blue Dogs will duck and weave, then cave as quietly as possible. This bill will pass with only cosmetic changes. Count on it.

spmat on August 19, 2009 at 12:37 AM

and they will go home in 2010…damage done. grrrrr

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 12:39 AM

<blockquote> It should not be forced upon the population. I have been been far poorer in my life but never elected to get food stamps – these programs should all be voluntary and for those that truly need them.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:34 AM

But it is. In terms of the people that have to pay for these programs via their taxed income.

…these programs should all be voluntary and for those that truly need them and those that want to contribute to them.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:39 AM

Uh, don’t we already have that in, um, Medicaid?

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Yep – in essence, we should extend that program to all citizens, not just a selected minority.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:36 AM
“All citizens”? But you just said that only those who can’t afford private insurance should be eligible.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Likewise, we should all be eligible for free food and free housing. They are rights, just like health care. Prove me wrong.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:40 AM

The Blue Dogs will duck and weave, then cave as quietly as possible. This bill will pass with only cosmetic changes. Count on it.

spmat on August 19, 2009 at 12:37 AM

It only needs 50 votes in the Senate with reconciliation. I don’t see why it won’t pass. Republicans were given a fair chance to amend what they wanted – they have remained silent for the most part. If they don’t want their political brand attached to this, that seems fine with the Democrats – they’ll be more than happy to push this through with a big red APPROVAL stamp.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:40 AM

“All citizens”? But you just said that only those who can’t afford private insurance should be eligible.
ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Oooof….that is going to leave a mark.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:40 AM

“All citizens”? But you just said that only those who can’t afford private insurance should be eligible.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

ohhh, what a tangled web we weave….LOL.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 12:41 AM

The Democrat party has been hijacked while you were out for a drink. A long one at that.

MarkABinVA on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Almost a 100 year drink.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:41 AM

Prove me wrong.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:40 AM

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Prove_me_wrong

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:42 AM

It only needs 50 votes in the Senate with reconciliation. I don’t see why it won’t pass. Republicans were given a fair chance to amend what they wanted – they have remained silent for the most part. If they don’t want their political brand attached to this, that seems fine with the Democrats – they’ll be more than happy to push this through with a big red APPROVAL stamp.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:40 AM

Will this method be OK when the GOP has power? Doubt it. Just thinking of doing the 50 vote thing for judicial nominations caused the statists to raise a big stink.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:43 AM

Prove me wrong.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:40 AM
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Prove_me_wrong

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:42 AM

Well….? Are those rights self-evident, as the right to health care is?

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:43 AM

“All citizens”? But you just said that only those who can’t afford private insurance should be eligible.

ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

At least he said “citizens!”

misslizzi on August 19, 2009 at 12:43 AM

It only needs 50 votes in the Senate with reconciliation. I don’t see why it won’t pass. Republicans were given a fair chance to amend what they wanted – they have remained silent for the most part. If they don’t want their political brand attached to this, that seems fine with the Democrats – they’ll be more than happy to push this through with a big red APPROVAL stamp.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:40 AM

um, doesnt a bill passed in reconciliation have to expire in 5 years? isnt it only with the budget?

and, could you tell me ONE TIME IN HISTORY that the senate has rammed through a massively unpopular bill? ever?

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM

Will this method be OK when the GOP has power? Doubt it. Just thinking of doing the 50 vote thing for judicial nominations caused the statists to raise a big stink.
WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:43 AM

The GOP should dust off that old copy of Pelosi’s “Minority Bill of Rights” that got stuck in the back of the file cabinet right after the 2006 election.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM

You do understand that the current legislation is geared toward, as we are being told, becoming a competitive program to that of private insurers?

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:39 AM

I’m aware of that…. I’m also aware that Obama and others have openly hinted to this health care reform as the catalyst to driving private insurers out of business…. it’s obvious to anyone that private companies simply cannot compete in the long term.

No one is mentioning the abortion provisions, either.

It all got drowned out by the GRRRR ANGRY TOWN HALL PROTESTERS – which simply amazes me.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:45 AM

Will this method be OK when the GOP has power? Doubt it. Just thinking of doing the 50 vote thing for judicial nominations caused the statists to raise a big stink.
WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:43 AM

Yeah, I’d like to know this too.

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:45 AM

Later all, I’m off to watch Clint Eastwood rob a Nazi bank.

Remember, anti-BarryCare is just ‘negative waves, man’!

Limerick on August 19, 2009 at 12:45 AM

If the Demos go nuclear with health care, cap-and-trade, education and the rest. They would in effect be staging a coup. Imagine the impact on the economy, not to mention the average angry white guy. And they thought the town halls were out of hand.

willy v on August 19, 2009 at 12:45 AM

I’m aware of that…. I’m also aware that Obama and others have openly hinted to this health care reform as the catalyst to driving private insurers out of business…. it’s obvious to anyone that private companies simply cannot compete in the long term.

No one is mentioning the abortion provisions, either.

It all got drowned out by the GRRRR ANGRY TOWN HALL PROTESTERS – which simply amazes me.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:45 AM

you must not watch a lot of tv. all i see is the CPR ad about the old guy holding his wife’s hand saying “they wont pay for my surgery, but they’ll pay for ABORTION!”

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:46 AM

That the stipulations in the current bills allow for more than just those below the poverty line to enroll?

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:39 AM

Allow or force?

misslizzi on August 19, 2009 at 12:46 AM

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:43 AM

It’s a political strategy that, in the current context, would be a brilliant move. You will obviously disagree.

But then again, Republican’s aren’t in power. And if they were, they would use the same tactic if they cared enough to push through some super important legislation that had no chance of reaching bi-partisan support.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:48 AM

And guaranteed sex. For all. Can’t live without it, people have been ruined financially over it, so government-run brothels are a must. Or at least government-sponsored hookups.
ddrintn on August 19, 2009 at 12:22 AM

Dear Gaia…I almost missed your remark. Quite right, going without any action can be deleterious, both physically and psychologically.

And don’t forget snow-throwers here in the winter states; do you realize that I could herniate a disc trying to clear my long driveway?

Air conditioning. People die every year without it. AC for all.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:48 AM

Hey Welcome_ghosts:

Will it bother you in 2013 if the new Republican majority Senate of President Sarah Palin (and tiebreaking vote caster Vice President Marco Rubio) uses “reconciliation” to privatize some of social security? Or to fund 100 new nuclear plants with the dept of energy?

Just checking!

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM

The entitlement mentality in this country makes me sick.

disa on August 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of governement. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

~Alexis de Tocqueville

Rational Thought on August 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM

Allow or force?
misslizzi on August 19, 2009 at 12:46 AM

Quite right, nice catch.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM

But then again, Republican’s aren’t in power. And if they were, they would use the same tactic if they cared enough to push through some super important legislation that had no chance of reaching bi-partisan support.
welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:48 AM

Goodness, are you like 17 years old? You have a short memory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option#Lines_are_drawn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option#.22Extremist.22_judges

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:50 AM

Imagine the impact on the economy, not to mention the average angry white guy. And they thought the town halls were out of hand.

willy v on August 19, 2009 at 12:45 AM

Imagine the tingle up Chrissy’s leg!

They would have to hire more secret service if this happens for Harry Reid and Chuck U Schumer.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:50 AM

At what point did Health Care become a God given right, a man given right, or any other kind of right?

The Dead Terrorist on August 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM

When the citizens in this country permitted Medicare & Medicaid.

AZ_Redneck on August 19, 2009 at 12:51 AM

When the citizens in this country permitted Medicare & Medicaid.

AZ_Redneck on August 19, 2009 at 12:51 AM

And yet, mediCARE at least is IN THEORY something you pay for yourself and get back at age 65. i know its run liike a ponzi scheme, but in theory it’s “your money” along with social security.

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM

Alexis de Tocqueville

Rational Thought on August 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM

I have got to read Alexis’s book.

What the heck would a statist think while reading his book? Americans in this era were just a bunch a neanderthals not caring for their felow man and clinging to their religion and guns.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Prove_me_wrong

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:42 AM

ummmm…should be easily done if the hypothesis (free food and free housing) is wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM

Will it bother you in 2013 if the new Republican majority Senate of President Sarah Palin (and tiebreaking vote caster Vice President Marco Rubio) uses “reconciliation” to privatize some of social security? Or to fund 100 new nuclear plants with the dept of energy?

Just checking!

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM

These fantasies seem to be a staple over at C4P… is this what keeps you going everyday, slaving over the deep fryer at Wendy’s?

I guess it would make for an amusing web comic.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM

I’m aware of that…. I’m also aware that Obama and others have openly hinted to this health care reform as the catalyst to driving private insurers out of business…. it’s obvious to anyone that private companies simply cannot compete in the long term.

Puts a stake in the heart of your argument that “Government health insurance is a subsidized hand-out given to those that don’t make enough money to afford their own private health insurance” now doesn’t it?

I don’t quite understand why you openly refute your own points, then again I’m not liberal.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:54 AM

These fantasies seem to be a staple over at C4P… is this what keeps you going everyday, slaving over the deep fryer at Wendy’s?

I guess it would make for an amusing web comic.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM

Answer my other post:

But then again, Republican’s aren’t in power. And if they were, they would use the same tactic if they cared enough to push through some super important legislation that had no chance of reaching bi-partisan support.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:48 AM

———————————————–
Goodness, are you like 17 years old? You have a short memory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option#Lines_are_drawn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option#.22Extremist.22_judges

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:50 AM

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:56 AM

Rational Thought on August 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM

That was one of the reasons we were founded as a republic. Hopefully to limit the damage of a democracy. Unfortunately, it is only delaying the inevitable.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 12:57 AM

I don’t quite understand why you openly refute your own points, then again I’m not liberal.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 12:54 AM

Sure do see a comment like that often on HA on threads with statists commentators.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 12:57 AM

And yet, mediCARE at least is IN THEORY something you pay for yourself and get back at age 65. i know its run liike a ponzi scheme, but in theory it’s “your money” along with social security.

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM

The reality … it’s your money being stolen. Madoff went to jail doing what the federal government does.

AZ_Redneck on August 19, 2009 at 12:58 AM

That was one of the reasons we were founded as a republic. Hopefully to limit the damage of a democracy. Unfortunately, it is only delaying the inevitable.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 12:57 AM

Marx predicted it. Capitalism leads to a socialist economy when the population swells and monopolies are formed in the marketplace. Government entity has to step-in and regulate.

It’s just what happens. It’s been happening here for over 90 years and will continue to happen.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:59 AM

Salary should be a right. I shouldn’t have to work for it.

Daggett on August 19, 2009 at 1:00 AM

The reality … it’s your money being stolen. Madoff went to jail doing what the federal government does.

AZ_Redneck on August 19, 2009 at 12:58 AM

can you say “Social Security”……well, not with a straight face.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 1:00 AM

Did anyone have to read Alexis de Tocqueville’s book in High School? Have kids in High School that have to read it?

I have not read it yet, but sure seems like something that should be read before turning 18. I will make sure my kids read when the time comes. For now I have created an Obama Mii on my Wii and have my kids punch him while playing boxing.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:00 AM

Marx predicted it. Capitalism leads to a socialist economy when the population swells and monopolies are formed in the marketplace. Government entity has to step-in and regulate.

It’s just what happens. It’s been happening here for over 90 years and will continue to happen.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:59 AM

which invariably leads to revolution….giving birth to….capitalism.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 1:01 AM

These fantasies seem to be a staple over at C4P… is this what keeps you going everyday, slaving over the deep fryer at Wendy’s?

I guess it would make for an amusing web comic.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM

Unfounded occupational disparagement from one who invariably brings his comments around to minimizing specific commenters.

Nice. It’s a tired approach.

BuckeyeSam on August 19, 2009 at 1:02 AM

It’s just what happens. It’s been happening here for over 90 years and will continue to happen.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:59 AM

90 Years…hmmmmmmm… right around the time when the progressive movement starting altering the foundations of this country. 1913 was the start of the downfall.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:03 AM

At least he said “citizens!”

misslizzi on August 19, 2009 at 12:43 AM

Notice, also,that he did not prefix it with the word “legal”.

OldEnglish on August 19, 2009 at 1:04 AM

Madoff…

…can you say “Social Security”……well, not with a straight face.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 1:00 AM

Great questions for statists, “Please explain how what Madoff did is any different from the Social Security program?”

Asked many times. Never answered.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

Government entity has to step-in and regulate.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:59 AM

you might want to look at the definition of socialism again.

“Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating state, public or common worker (through cooperatives) ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society “

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

which invariably leads to revolution….giving birth to….capitalism.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 1:01 AM

Not really. Europe seems pretty content with their socialist state. The beauty is that you can still run your small business & make a profit while the basic living essentials of the population are taken care of through the government.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

Yep – in essence, we should extend that program to all citizens, not just a selected minority.
welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:36 AM

Medicare is 35 trillion in the hole… Medicaid too.

The last 2 products of liberals running everything.

Chuck Schick on August 19, 2009 at 1:06 AM

Not really. Europe seems pretty content with their socialist state.
welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

That’s because they’ve never been free like we have. Straight from monarchies to socialism. Not much freedom and liberty to be found.

Dominion on August 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM

Europe seems pretty content with their socialist state. The beauty is that you can still run your small business & make a profit while the basic living essentials of the population are taken care of through the government.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

Is it sustainable? I believe the big three in Europe are more in debt than we are. Can their socialist state go on forever?

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM

Marx predicted it. Capitalism leads to a socialist economy when the population swells and monopolies are formed in the marketplace. Government entity has to step-in and regulate.

It’s just what happens. It’s been happening here for over 90 years and will continue to happen.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 12:59 AM

There’s a difference between “regulating” and “competing”. Also, we have remedies for monopolies in the anti-trust laws. I don’t think anyone is seriously contending that the health insurance companies are monopolies. Indications are that they are less competitive than auto, home and life insurers, but that is because the pricing of health insurance is more complex, as is the administration, than those other types of insurance. Judging by this comment, it’s pretty clear that you don’t have a clue about any of this, you just know that if the GOP is against it, you’re for it. Congratulations, you are officially a mindless robot.

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM

Nice. It’s a tired approach.
BuckeyeSam on August 19, 2009 at 1:02 AM

You need to go easy on the boy; he spent his evening arguing that OgabeScare is merely a tool for providing insurance to the downtrodden, then managed to counter himself right at the end.

WG tries his best, but his toolbox doesn’t contain much besides a hammer and shovel.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 1:09 AM

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

1. “Europe” doesn’t have to pay for defense, because of NATO (read: AMERICA)

2. You still havent answered me. ARe you comfortable having the dems use the nuclear option KNOWING that the repubs will use it whenever they get back in power (and, contrary to your views, the republicans had a healthy majority in 2005 and declined to use it — twice). Are you comfortable starting the war?

battleoflepanto1571 on August 19, 2009 at 1:10 AM

Also, we have remedies for monopolies in the anti-trust laws.
venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM

Can these be applied to the public school monopolies in each state? Oh pretty please be true!!!

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:10 AM

Is it sustainable? I believe the big three in Europe are more in debt than we are. Can their socialist state go on forever?

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM

No, none of this crap is sustainable.

http://www.scrivener.net/2007/06/bastiat-never-even-heard-of-social.html

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:11 AM

I do wish people would stop equating freedom with Socialism. Freedom does not condemn one to be the subject of massive theft.

OldEnglish on August 19, 2009 at 1:11 AM

Ghosts is hoping to graduate from racebaiting moron to mindless robot after another semester of DeVry.

Chuck Schick on August 19, 2009 at 1:12 AM

Can these be applied to the public school monopolies in each state? Oh pretty please be true!!!

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:10 AM

No, those are special monopolies for your own good. Or so my “betters” tell me.

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:13 AM

http://www.scrivener.net/2007/06/bastiat-never-even-heard-of-social.html

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:11 AM

Just great! That chart was BEFORE Obama took office.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:14 AM

Not really. Europe seems pretty content with their socialist state. The beauty is that you can still run your small business & make a profit while the basic living essentials of the population are taken care of through the government.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

Europe is a bit hybridized as gov’t only monopolizes certain aspects to keep the proletariat complacent.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 1:14 AM

Just great! That chart was BEFORE Obama took office.

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:14 AM

It also assumes economic growth rates that are probably, in the wake of the financial crisis, a tad optimistic.

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:15 AM

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM

We won’t have to worry about those pesky private insurance companies much longer, will we? ;)

We’ll never be a fully socialist state in America… it just won’t happen. A lot of these programs that the government has passed (social security, medicare, welfare, etc] are socialist in nature, but that’s about as far as it’ll go. This health care reform will be the icing on the cake.

No worries – you’re still free to make $$$PROFITS$$$ and be that idealistic rugged individualist that you dream about every night before bedtime.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:15 AM

Europe seems pretty content with their socialist state. The beauty is that you can still run your small business & make a profit while the basic living essentials of the population are taken care of through the government.
welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

Mmm hmmm. Convenient of you to ignore their falling native birthrates due to the inability to afford more than one child, or the fact that the majority of their defensive needs are provided by Daddy America, or that their unemployment rates have always been consistently high while worker productivity is low.

Pull out the US protective umbrella and see what happens.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 1:16 AM

Is it sustainable? I believe the big three in Europe are more in debt than we are. Can their socialist state go on forever?

WashJeff on August 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM

oh…don’t squash him so soon. It takes the entire european union to compete with a single American company, but I was trying to be “compassionate”, lol.

Fighton03 on August 19, 2009 at 1:17 AM

Not really. Europe seems pretty content with their socialist state. The beauty is that you can still run your small business & make a profit while the basic living essentials of the population are taken care of through the government.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:05 AM

I love how the retards clamoring for the government to take care of their health care needs cite “unleashing entrepreneurship” as one of the reasons. As if some loser who’s looking for a handout from the government for “free” healthcare is the kind of person who’s just going to run out and start a business! More proof of the dreamworld these people live in.

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:17 AM

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:15 AM

You are definitely not one to be trusted with the family silver.

OldEnglish on August 19, 2009 at 1:18 AM

Pull out the US protective umbrella and see what happens.

Bishop on August 19, 2009 at 1:16 AM

Let’s not forget the big fat umbrella that saved Europe in the first place. Geez, the UK’s beloved NHS would most likely not even been implemented without Marshall Plan backing.

misslizzi on August 19, 2009 at 1:19 AM

No worries – you’re still free to make $$$PROFITS$$$ and be that idealistic rugged individualist that you dream about every night before bedtime.

welcome_ghosts on August 19, 2009 at 1:15 AM

I’m not idealistic.

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:20 AM

As if some loser who’s looking for a handout from the government for “free” healthcare is the kind of person who’s just going to run out and start a business! More proof of the dreamworld these people live in.

venividivici on August 19, 2009 at 1:17 AM

Hell, are they even going to work at all?

misslizzi on August 19, 2009 at 1:21 AM

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