Video: Liberal Dem says dumping the public option will cost 100 House votes
posted at 4:10 pm on August 17, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The Hill focuses on the political aspect of this CNBC appearance by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY), but the opening argument from Weiner has to be heard to be believed. Weiner, who actually held a town-hall forum for his constituents, says that ObamaCare opponents are lying to seniors, which is why they’re so dead set against health-care reform. In fact, Weiner thinks that seniors should be grateful for the single-payer system they already have, and insists that consumers of Medicare think it’s wonderful:
Medicare has actually been a pretty successful program. It has some financial problems, but as far as consumers are concerned, they like it.
Except for “some financial problems,” people like Medicare? That’s akin to asking, “Other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?” Medicare has $36,000,000,000,000 (that’s trillion with a T) in unfunded liabilities in the next 25 years. That’s not “some financial problems,” as Weiner puts it in today’s worst understatement, and ObamaCare promises to make the problem worse — by expanding the program and its coverage.
Amazingly, CNBC doesn’t call him on this statement. Aren’t they supposed to be reporting on financial matters?
Next, Weiner says that opponents are scaring seniors by claiming that Obama will cut Medicare. I wonder where they got that idea? I guess that would be from Obama himself, who proposed almost $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid to pay for ObamaCare, which the House used in its version of the bill.
But the topper of that statement comes from saying that consumers of Medicare love the system. At best, it’s tolerable, made so only by Medicare Advantage, which allows its consumers to buy supplemental insurance for broader coverage, better choice of providers, and a wider range of services. Guess what Obama, Weiner, and the rest of the liberals in Congress want to cut to pay for their “reform”? Medicare Advantage, a program demonized by Obama at every opportunity.
And I say that as the spouse of a Medicare consumer. If Weiner’s been within a hundred miles of a Medicare EOB, I’d eat my hat.
As for the politics of dumping the public option, I suspect it won’t come to that. They’ll simply create government-managed co-ops that will do exactly what the public plan would have done — undermine the private sector and allow employers to dump their health-insurance costs. The liberal wing of the Democratic Party will eventually go for that Trojan horse, the same way they’ve been cheering the Trojan horse of a public plan as the gateway to one single-payer health-care system in America.
Update: In case you missed it, The Moderate Voice has allowed me a “guest voice” to reprint my Modest Proposal for a single-payer legal system. I wonder why Weiner hasn’t joined me on that push yet. For a less satirical pushback on ObamaCare, be sure to read Jazz Shaw’s rebuttal to his fellow TMV writers.









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Yep keep on thinking that please.
MES401067 on August 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM
And keeping the public option kills the bill…
Theworldisnotenough on August 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Namely, massive, uncontrolled fraud and complete bankruptcy . . .
Is there anything on this earth more stupid and worthless than a Democrat politician?
NoDonkey on August 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM
EPIC FAIL
Norwegian on August 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM
GE , I’m shocked …
the_nile on August 17, 2009 at 4:16 PM
CNBC – C = NBC
Any questions?
uknowmorethanme on August 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Kramer: It’s a write off for them.
Jerry: How is it a write off?
Kramer: They just write it off.
Jerry: Write it off what?
Kramer: Jerry, all these big companies, they write off everything.
Jerry: You don’t even know what a write off is.
Kramer: Do you?
Jerry: No. I Don’t.
Kramer: But they do. And they’re the ones writing it off.
CP on August 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM
This is the same D*nozzle that has filed a single payer amendment in the House, and is trying to push for full government takeover.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB6XTMPj-os
Enoxo on August 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM
I like how the WSJ hit upon Medicare\SocSec unfunded liabilities in an editorial about Fannie stuff:
How many people know that SocSec and Medicare liabilities can be erased by changing the law? SCOTUS gave the green light long ago.
WashJeff on August 17, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Exactly. Fine, fine, we’ll take the public plan out…only we’ll have these co-ops, which are the exact.same.thing. Anyone paying attention? Thought not. Good, hurry up and vote!
NickelAndDime on August 17, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Weiner…..Weiner…..Weiner……
Seven Percent Solution on August 17, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Kill The Bill. No negotiations. No compromises. Nothing.
elduende on August 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM
You: Laugh at scene.
Dem Congressman: Take’s notes.
WashJeff on August 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM
Dick Durbin (D-IL) and Anthony Weiner (D-NY)
Two politicians who are named accurately.
UltimateBob on August 17, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Yes, there is. A Democrat bureaucrat.
FlameWarrior on August 17, 2009 at 4:20 PM
36 trillion dollars? Yah, so what. We’ll make up for it with volume.
Mojave Mark on August 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM
This guy cannot possibly have any family memebrs actually receiving care under Medicare. It is FUBAR. Pays less than 1/3 of the actual bills and still loses money. Denies payment for all sorts of things, including insulin and syringes for diabetics. Forces people to leave the hospital whether they are ready or not. Lots of doctors refuse to accept Medicare patients anymore because it is such a hassle for such little money.
Those are just a few of my “favorite” things about Medicare. My dad is 89 and a former doctor, and after every doctor visit or surgery he bends my ear for hours about how screwed up Medicare is.
rockmom on August 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM
Then if Medicare is FABULOUS, why are they cutting it (or at least saying it needs to be cut)? MORON ALERT!
SouthernGent on August 17, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Bills? That is what the printing press is for!
rob verdi on August 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Using Dear Leader’s own words is evil-mongering! But I like it.
rbj on August 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Lose public option, lose 100 votes. Sounds more like a feature than a bug.
Lily on August 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM
liberal democrat. an oxymoron. these thieves are neither liberal nor democrats. more like totalitarian neo-socialists.
elduende on August 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM
This is like saying that I would LOVE a root canal.
I’d tolerate it, with lots of Lydocaine and pain meds, and would prefer it to the alternative, which would be my jaw rotting off from my head. But that’s a far cry from loving it.
UltimateBob on August 17, 2009 at 4:25 PM
This public option fandango is a definite shamwow bait and switch bad cop good cop scenario.
who here can figure this out….we know they will win, they won, so how will this play out. I will be busy having my death panel interview….the test is hard
nondhimmie on August 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM
dump medicare all together. Conservative claim they hate government run health care. Why not get rid of medicare
liberal343 on August 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM
By asking this you assume talking heads do any research before an interview. Clearly this is a job that is above them and hence the horrible reporting/analysis.
alohapundit on August 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Empty lava lamps? Pinstripes on cars? Diet cokes served with Biggie sized value meals? Nah. I got nothin’…
Battlecruiser-operational on August 17, 2009 at 4:30 PM
My husband is a physician and he has arranged with other physicians to see my father who is 72 so that he can get good healthcare. Most MDs don’t take medicare since medical practices cannot even pay their overhead on their businesses on what Medicare pays. My dad is always thanking my husband for arranging for him to see the really good doctors in our area … because the ones that are open to taking new Medicare patients are not always the best physicians.
idahoconservative on August 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM
This kind of reaction is exactly why I thought Barry dropping the public option wasn’t feasible for him.
The “progressives” make up the Dem rank-and-file in the House and are PISSED that about 20 Blue Dogs are going to have more influence over the final bill than many of them.
If he caters to one group, he’ll piss off the other and expose more fault lines in the coalition between the party’s various factions.
teke184 on August 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Personally, I would love to. With perhaps a transition time so that those on Medicare can pick up other insurance. Politically, it ain’t gonna happen.
rbj on August 17, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Hehe. Read the bio at Moderate Voice. They had to bring up the Olby “Best Person” thing again.
Think Ed’s gonna live with that one a while… :)
Machete_Bug on August 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM
That’s a classic Jerry-Kramer exchange. I love the accusatory tone in Jerry’s voice when he says, “You don’t even know what a write off is.”
I think you’ve hit on something. Democrats are about as competent as Kramer in terms of pursuing gainful employment. In fact, I’m reminded of the episode in which Kramer pretended to have an office job. As I recall, he ultimately got smoked out when a superior reviewed a gibberish report of his.
If Kramer doesn’t embody the level of competence demonstrated by most Democrats, I don’t know does. If I’m painting with too broad a brush, you have to admit that it safe to compare Kramer and Maxine Waters. That woman is an idiot.
BuckeyeSam on August 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Medicare has unfunded liabilities because the congress voted down the proposal to fund it. LOL*
This is yet another nonsensical argument.
Pelosi wouldn’t have the votes to get a bill through without a public option. It’s math.
AnninCA on August 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Come on you Libs 100 votes .You can do better than that .How about 150 at least.
thmcbb on August 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Medicare and Social Security need $43 trillion to be solvent. That’s a chain of $100 bills half the distance to the sun.
beatcanvas on August 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Heh. I’ve been saying something like that to my brother the last few years…”Dick Durbin- Finally, Truth in advertising!”
Battlecruiser-operational on August 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Medicare is to Some Financial Problems
as
Titanic is to Some Redocking Difficulties.
Please destroy the iceberg.
DrAllecon on August 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM
OT: Is Obamacare Constitutional?
We need a thread on this issue.
elduende on August 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Love the idea. Bid it out to private insurance companies and make them compete. I know the hospitals will be on board, since any hospital system with a Medicare payer mix about 35-40% is HURTING. Ditch gov’t Medicaid while you are at it.
search4truth on August 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Medicare is amazing if you think going bankrupt is amazing.
Because of course, medicare is bankrupt and will ultimately bankrupt this country.
But it’s a great think I swear.
jhffmn on August 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM
“Weiner, Durbin and Schumer.”
“Who are 3 arrogant smirking d-bags who need to be beaten with a pillowcase filled with doorknobs?”
Chuck Schick on August 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Campaign Finance Reform says: Yeah. Don’t rely on the supreme court.
lorien1973 on August 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
But, But, But….the libs have been waiting 50 years for this. *sobs* NOT!!!
capejasmine on August 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Sounds good. Let’s dump Social Security, MedicAid, food stamps, welfare … everything!
Good idea liberal343! (AKA Neo-Communist343)
darwin on August 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
I’ve met Weiner a few times. He’s from NYC. He can’t help it.
JiangxiDad on August 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
dump medicare all together. Conservative claim they hate government run health care. Why not get rid of medicare
Hell yes 343. Take the money and put it into individual medical savings accounts. Put the consumer back in charge of the money. Bring back market competition.
Bat Chain Puller on August 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Considering the government clearly can’t afford it, I don’t see why they would wait until it’s forced into bankruptcy.
But what do you think, liberal? Do you think the government should just get to printing more bills? Dig for gold following some long forgotten treasure map on the back of the Constitution? Talk to Barney Frank about starting a prostitution ring? Legalize pot and pass it out at every government building and at street corners, getting citizens so high that they don’t remember what a trillion dollars is anymore?
Surely you actually have a solution, liberal.
Esthier on August 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM
The comments section would consist of 400 or 500 one-word comments: NO
And a couple of stray YES comments from anninca, libtard343, getalife, Dave Rywall, ernesto, etc.
UltimateBob on August 17, 2009 at 4:41 PM
CNBS – You know they just allow about anyone on to do these interviews…
SkinnerVic on August 17, 2009 at 4:41 PM
He is using the new spin lines that the left and Obama have started today. There was some single payer advocate on Fox News this morning that refused to answer any questions and kept spewing the lying to seniors line over and over. So now their defense is that people cannot think for themselves and figure out what an atrocity Obamacare is.
KG in Sask on August 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Through liberal 343′s ignorance a very good point has been made. You cannot take an entitlement away once it is given. That is why this needs to be stopped before it becomes another monkey on the back of working American.
idahoconservative on August 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
The constitutional question interests purists on the right only.
It’s irrelevant, frankly. Under that definition, we have many programs that you’d deem unconstitutional, which I guess is why the far-right is called, “fringe.”
It’s sort of the same as talking to far-left, and having them only scream “single-payer” all day long.
AnninCA on August 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Making the argument that 45 to 50 million Americans being uninsured is a form of rationing is bogus. Making 250 million Americans pay for them is thievery.
fourdeucer on August 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Pretty much all of Weiner’s constituents are receiving public assistance of some kind, and /or retiree health benefits, work for the city, belong to a union, etc. More like W. Europe than the rest of US.
JiangxiDad on August 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Yes, because what’s not to love about a system that’s $36 Trillion dollars in the hole, is beset with billions of dollars in fraud and waste every year, pays medical providers only a small fraction of the actual cost of the medical services provided, leaves many essential medical services uncovered, etc., etc.?
But you gotta love Libaral “logic.” Medicare’s a disaster, so let’s create an even bigger government-run program just like it! And anybody who objects is clearly a raaaacist!!!
AZCoyote on August 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Nonetheless, I think it would be a highly entertaining thread.
Yeah 50 years to finally make a massive power grab.
Well the only great thing about this socialist abortion they want to force on us is that we can tie up so many aspects of the law in the courts for so many years we may not be alive when the SCOTUS gets through with it. ;-)
elduende on August 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Just think….if they did that, and de-regulated, and let us buy insurance across state lines, made it MORE competitive that way….seniors wouldn’t need Medicare. But those silly liberals think they know what’s better for us, than we do.
Until you get past the fact, that this isn’t about getting quality care to every citizen, but a means to garnering more power for themselves, you’ll never understand the opposition.
We don’t need, nor do we want one party rule, but again, Liberals think that is what’s best for us. If you like that kinda thing, I hear North Korea has it. Maybe try them out for a few months, and see how you like it. ;)
capejasmine on August 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Great idea, if only we could.
Rammed through the Democrat Congress in 1965, health care expenditures exploded after its idiotic enactment.
Just because people are fooled into thinking that they are getting something for “free” and are dependent on this ill-run ponzi scheme, doesn’t mean it’s any good.
And like any pyramid scheme, it is a pretty good deal for the people who got in early.
Anyone under 50 is going to get a big fat zero, after paying into it our whole lives. Great example you have there.
NoDonkey on August 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
You’re not a lawyer are you? I am. This is headed for the courts on so many unconstitutional aspects it’ll blow your mind.
elduende on August 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
I can’t remember where I saw this, but I think in the house bill, is wording that puts the HHS secretary in total control of this. Thereby…she is exhaulted above any court. She has final say, on all things. If that’s true…that’s just as scary as the public option, in my opinion.
capejasmine on August 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Ann, we’re a Constitutional Republic. The Constitution matters far more than the opinion of the majority or much of anything else. To act as though it’s irrelevant is to ignore the very foundation of our country.
Esthier on August 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Maybe this would be easier. What would you NOT want government involvement in? What would be fair that the government, aka the tax payers, should NOT have to pay for?
capejasmine on August 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Why you won’t ever be on the right.
JiangxiDad on August 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
I think the New York liberal elite are taking a beter look at the fine print and may be having second thoughts about national health care. Wiener has their trust thats why he is able to gloss over the facts about the financial troubles of Medicare.
sonnyspats1 on August 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM
“Can’t they make it up on volume?” – Business whiz Barack Obama.
Medicare doesn’t even pay physicians enough to pay for the malpractice insurance necessary to cover one elderly patient.
But lawyers don’t want to reform our legal lottery system, because that’s where the Democrats get the bulk of their campaign contributions.
Corrupt and incompetent Democrats are trying to ruin this nation.
NoDonkey on August 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Can anyone say “arrogant”?
BKeyser on August 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
No the agencies/departments have to comply with the Constitution too. They are adjudicated by the Federal courts in Washington D.C. These departments do have a lot of leeway in how they implement law but they have to meet certain standards too.
elduende on August 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Because seniors have been paying into the government system their whole lives. Along time ago a guy named FDR convinced the citizens of this country to do just that to insure their ‘social security’.
sonnyspats1 on August 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
CNBC… Cabal of Nothing But Commies.
A number of traders I know make thousands a day waiting for CNBC’s geniuses to tout a stock and then, instead of buying it, the traders short it directly or via options. Usually, and in matter of days, voilà the stock dips or dives and the traders take their profits.
This, I’m told, has worked even better since B-HO ascended to the throne, given the network’s desire to make him look good every day.
As for moi, it’s the Fox Business Channel only. Great graphics, and the chicks are so hot there you can watch it with the sound off.
TXUS on August 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Yeah – one of the biggest Supreme Court mistakes ever. People assume they’re paying into an account they’ll draw out of. A lot of the documentation supports that idea. But the court said people have no right to expect their money back.
It’s worse than a Ponzi scheme. It’s a Ponzi scheme with a built-in escape clause for the person running it.
hawksruleva on August 17, 2009 at 5:06 PM
I really wish someone would tell me where this mythical place is that has emergency rooms that allow you to just walk in, get treated, and walk out without paying.
Where is this place?
If you are already on government assistance, then yes. That I can understand. But if you have an address, you will get a bill and if you don’t pay it you will get handed off to a collection agency and they will hound you until the end of time.
Where, oh where, do all these 40 million people go to get free healthcare the rest of us are paying for?
Jaynie59 on August 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM
What a tool!
“I need a gall bladder. Maybe I’ll take a liver instead or a different color gall bladder”
No one needs a gall bladder, they need to have their gall bladder removed.
If he wasn’t so ignorant and in the position of potentially deciding this issue, if would be laughable.
As it is, it is frightening that this doofus is in congress.
txdoc on August 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Congressman Weiner I stand behind you 100%. You and your colleagues should accept nothing less than single payer.
Kill the bill!
Ted Torgerson on August 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Don’t worry. Barack will save the nation by inventing the change bank.
hawksruleva on August 17, 2009 at 5:08 PM
I have a question that I don’t think has been brought up yet by anyone:
I have a couple of friends who work in different hospitals in different states, one in billing and one in HR. When we get together for drinks the hassles with their jobs always is a part of the discussion and their biggest hassle:
Inspections by different government agencies that each have a different set of rules. If they comply with one set of rules they are out of compliance with the other. So they have to juggle everything and make sure that they know who is coming next.
Can anyone confirm this? This has to add millions (if taken across the nation) to administration costs.
journeyintothewhirlwind on August 17, 2009 at 5:08 PM
I flagged this video to president@whitehouse.gov.
This is misinformation that we might need a gall bladder transplant! LOL
txdoc on August 17, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Hey Ed, don’t give them ideas. They may try for a similar bill but pay the lawyers more and tax the corporations more. I’m sure some liberal thinks you have a great idea, but he’s probably not a lawyer.
Christian Conservative on August 17, 2009 at 5:10 PM
That’s great. When you first published that post I immediately put in my ‘top picks’, a list that only has about a half dozen articles/ blog posts.
It was brilliant writing.
BadgerHawk on August 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM
HA! A single payer legal system.
Brilliant, that’ll teach them (these annoying peasants).
Government panel decides if you can sue or not. Oh wait…
Sir Napsalot on August 17, 2009 at 5:17 PM
No.
1921 C DRUM on August 17, 2009 at 5:22 PM
our posters at the “townhalls” & recess rallies should read “kill the bill”.
pretty simple language for our simpleton congress idjits.
kelley in virginia on August 17, 2009 at 5:24 PM
I say we should dump the FBI, CIA and Military while we at it. We can privatize all of them or make them a not for profit. Anything to keep the government away from them. How will they be funded you ask? Americans will make voluntary donations to these organizations because we are a nation of givers.
Matter of fact, privatize the city and state police while we at it.
Afrolib on August 17, 2009 at 5:25 PM
Yeah, all RINOs. At least you know the D is going to stab you with his knife. A RINO, on the other hand, tells you he’s not going to stab you, then proceeds to do just that.
TXUS on August 17, 2009 at 5:28 PM
What trophy will the Dems have on their mantle to brag about in next year’s midterms? If they can’t even get stuff done w a supermajority…then what?
Vote for us because we’re REALLY inept?
omg!
scottm on August 17, 2009 at 5:28 PM
I’m intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
lorien1973 on August 17, 2009 at 5:29 PM
Someone needs to just ask this GD idiot where in the Constitution the federal government is authorized to run a health care system. I really loathe Liberals.
DerKrieger on August 17, 2009 at 5:29 PM
I would make a smartass comment but instead I’ll just refer you to the Constitution where it explicitly states that the nation’s defense is a federal responsibility and the government is empowered to collect taxes to provide for the common defense. The Constitution does not allow Obamacare or any variant thereof.
DerKrieger on August 17, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Tits on a boar?
Lily on August 17, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Afrolib… Just another Weiner, so to speak. Sorry, just channeling my own inner smartass.
TXUS on August 17, 2009 at 5:37 PM
I couldn’t listen to all of it, but I got through where he said the Republicans want nothing to happen, the host then said “don’t the Republicans have their own proposal?” (I’m paraphrasing, I’m sure) and he replies “if they do there holding on to it – I haven’t seen anything.” I know Republicans espouse a) tax reform, b) tort reform, c) HSA/high deductible private plans etc. etc., have the Republicans in Congress been able to propose such a thing in the House? Or have they been shut out? It’s pretty disingenuous to say “Republicans haven’t proposed anything” when the truth is “we won’t listen to anything they have to say.” Not that I’m surprised.
DougV on August 17, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Au contraire, Weiner knows he’s lying. He’s a smooth talking RDDB to borrow a phrase from another Weiner.
Afrolib I’d wager is simply an ignorant product of public education; a narrow-minded servant of the left giving advice to a country he loathes about a Constitution he could never understand.
rcl on August 17, 2009 at 5:51 PM
Brilliant idea…..not. Besides, unlike universal health care, national security is actually called for in the Constitution. In other words, it’s one of the things government is supposed to do.
Oh, wait, I forgot. According to Ann, the Constitution and our entire legal system is basically for purists on the Right only, lol.
Freakin’ morons. This country is filled with them. It’s a miracle America has lasted as long as it has.
xblade on August 17, 2009 at 5:55 PM
I deal with medicare and medicaid people everyday…and by far most of the medicare people I know have supplemental insurance because medicare does not cover everything. not by a long shot.
Terrye on August 17, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Sorry,I only lasted about three minutes.this guy is an idiot,so are the hundred he claims to speak for.
How do they keep getting dumber?Weiner must be taking lessons from Biden.
DDT on August 17, 2009 at 6:03 PM
What a weiner.
TinMan13 on August 17, 2009 at 6:18 PM
This all comes down to gold.
If we still used real money, gold, it would be impossible to have one bureaucracy write IOU’s to another bureaucracy that then prints the money to another bureaucracy that pays the bills. You can’t just take money out of thin air and pray that when the whole thing falls apart it doesn’t happen on your watch.
Gold people. It was real money once, and it can be again.
GunRunner on August 17, 2009 at 6:22 PM
On second thought, you’re right. Then again, there are a lot of Weiner Wannabes or Weiners in Training out there.
TXUS on August 17, 2009 at 6:24 PM
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