Cash for Clunkers a screwed-up bureaucracy, says … a liberal Democrat?
posted at 3:35 pm on August 17, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Bear in mind that the Congressman making this public isn’t a member of Republican leadership, isn’t a Republican at all, or even a Blue Dog Democrat. In fact, it’s the same Congressman who convinced the liberal activists at Netroots Nation that he represented their interests better than incumbent Senator Arlen Specter (R D-PA). The Cash for Clunkers program has only paid on 2% of the applications submitted by dealers, while over 80% of those applications have been rejected for petty bureaucratic nonsense:
The federal government has only reimbursed auto dealers for 2 percent of the claims they’ve submitted through the popular “cash for clunkers” program, a Pennsylvania congressman said, calling on the Obama administration to help speed up the process.
Rep. Joe Sestak, D-Pa., called for “immediate action” to address the problem in a statement Sunday, after writing a letter to President Obama Saturday expressing his concerns.
In the letter, Sestak said only 2 percent of claims have been paid and that four of every five applications have been “rejected for minor oversight.”
In recent days, auto dealers across the country have been complaining that the reimbursement payments are slow to process. And they said some of their applications were being rejected because of apparent procedural issues. The statistics Sestak cited suggest those complaints are not based on isolated incidents.
The program was supposedly so wildly successful that the Obama administration requested and received an extra $2 billion in financing just as Congress went on its recess. If they’ve only paid 2% of the applications, where did the original $1 billion go? What will happen to the next $2 billion?
And of course, the big question: if the federal government can’t run a program designed to kill a few hundred thousand cars, how can we expect them to run a program to keep hundreds of millions of Americans alive and in good health?
Blowback
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Using your logic why shouldn’t the government run everything?
Fielding a military is actually one of the enumerated responsibilities of government. Does the military face all of the same inefficiencies that other government agencies do? Yes – but defending our nation and way of life is worth the inefficiency. But maybe I misunderstand you and you think we should privatize the military? Or perhaps you are like most liberals who see EVERY.SINGLE.ISSUE.IS.THE.MOST.IMPORTANT!!!eleventhy!!!1one!!1!!!.
and that fielding an effective military is less important than government running our schools, healthcare, auto-industry, etc. Notice that the government running the military doesn’t infringe on anyones rights – it only defends them – and that whenever government takes over any other industry it begins a long road of regulations and infringement of liberties to push ‘social justice’ and ‘fairness’.
Our government has already created it’s version of healthcare – Medicare, Medicaid, VA, etc and NONE of these are being held up as model examples of what government is going to provide for everyone…interesting that the actual examples of government run healthcare dissuade people from wanting more.
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 4:44 PM
wtf?
Ampersand on August 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM
I don’t know the answer to this one but my thoughts are at some point after they owner has taken the vehicle off the lot and the dealer wants money the customer would say OK I will just return the vehicle. The dealer is going to be out way more than the $4500. Since I am sure most of the new vehicles have been registered with the state.
Now it is a used car or truck. A rock and a hard place for the dealer not so sure for the customer.
Mr. Paul on August 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM
It’s a simple process for the Social Democrats. You tax, you create government but you don’t pay out anything. In income taxes or otherwise.
Jakefut on August 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Yeah! Just like those doctors now who are performing unnecessary tonsilectomies and amputating the limbs of diabetics!
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Which is why that was faked.
Chuck Schick on August 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM
My educated guess is that it takes three or more years of fuel savings to offset the energy used to build the new cars. The environmentalist WHACKOS are crowing about the fuel efficient cars on the market but are blind to the fact listed above. Repairs to newer cars cost more because more parts have to be replaced in order to de-rail the vampires(lawyers). I’m not sure of the source but an article on accident repairs to a car that would have cost $4,000 and the insurance company totaled the car. The parts included the airbags, airbag computer, wiring harness, and etc for a 5 mph collision with airbag deployment.
CARS(C4C)= Joke on the American taxpayers
hamradio on August 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Seriously, you think the government is well suited to run nationalized medicine? You don’t find that the bureaucratic mess that is c4c is any indication of how healthcare will run? Just look at Medicare – pretty much the same thing there.
If ObamaCare was going to be so awesome then unions wouldn’t be pressuring Democrats to exempt them from it and congresscritters themselves would be willing to use it.
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM
with times so tight, with the economy already bad to begin with, sticking small dealerships with this cash for clunker screw up could put some out of business.
sure, maybe the bigger ones can hang on. and where would the smaller ones go for operating capital? a bank? business lending is what is drying up.
kelley in virginia on August 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but I think 2% of 1 billion is 20 million. So if as the libs say the whole 1 billion is already spent, what happened to the remaining $880 million?
Think any lib “journalist” will take some time of from pushing Obamacare to find some answers for this one? Naaah! To them, the plan is and will always be “a great success”.
RMR on August 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM
the cash for clunker money was from which stimulus? TARP? Porkulus (stimulus)?
kelley in virginia on August 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM
And a large cup o piss poor management… as usual.
ConservativeJawa on August 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
You’ve got to love the 2-pronged approach of liberals to convince other Americans to go along with ObamaCare:
(1) Americans are beholden to evil insurance companies and their wind-fall profits and 45 (really 15) million Americans don’t have any health insurance so we’re going to spend trillions and trillions of dollars until the end of time to fix this. We have no idea how we are really going to pay for it.
(2) Doctors are out of control as they seek dirty evil profits – being driven to cut open our children and remove their tonsils and if you’re a diabetic to cut off your limbs. We need the new government system to protect is from doctors.
Keep on talking – you’ve almost convinced us!
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Oh god… this reminds me of how a liberal was describing to me the health care issue…
“We have to get something in NOW! Even if it doesn’t work as intended we can fix it later! It’s the thought that counts, we’re doing a good thing for all of mankind, how dare you say anything against it! I can’t help it if it doesn’t work out, it’s the conservative moonbats that ruin everything!…” yada yada yada
ConservativeJawa on August 17, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Fixed it for ya ED!
dhunter on August 17, 2009 at 5:06 PM
firefighting as a public service, like the military, illustrates that there are things the government can do better, if not more efficiently, than private business. if the military was run by private business, they’d have an incentive to start wars, a scary prospect. private firefighters would have an incentive in your house burning down. private insurers have an incentive to deny you coverage if you’re a loser for them or screw you over when you’re sick. it’s not a radical idea to have government step in to guarantee certain protections.
sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Kinda like how your chemotherapy will be “rejected for minor oversight,” and while you’re correcting the minor oversight you’ll, um, die — and go in the ObamaCare cost savings column.
Rational Thought on August 17, 2009 at 5:09 PM
We’re in the best of hands.
Bru on August 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM
That’s ok. The only reason that would happen would be because of greedy car salesman, and their evil finance companies with shifty loan procedures like “interest-only” or “reverse” auto loans. The same way that mortgage lenders put guns to people’s heads and made them sign loan documents for houses they knew they couldn’t afford. What we’ll need is the guv’mint to rescue everyone with a new T.A.R.P. program through Freddie Chevy and Fannie Dodge.
Left Coast Right Mind on August 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM
BTW, those that trade in the clunkers don’t pay cash for the new cars do they? And if there is a loan involved.. . . what’s the approval process . . . are they gov secured loans? Acorn involved? Etc Etc
MirCat on August 17, 2009 at 5:17 PM
I’m convinced! We’ve got to remove the profit motive from doctors so they will stop taking out our tonsils and lopping off our limbs!
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 5:18 PM
So, if this is correct, 98% of the dealers who sold cars $4500 cheaper than normal price didn’t get their money back from the Government. So far, they’ve possibly sold the cars at a LOSS while waiting for Government money, and may have to borrow money at 5.5% or so per year to cover the loss. If the money comes late, the dealer loses $4500 x 0.055 / 12 = $20.63 per car per month the money is late. Plus, the dealers are stuck with a bunch of “clunkers” that they have to pay to store or have towed off the lot.
Once the clunkers are towed away, many of them will have still-usable parts which junk dealers will sell to garages or consumers who need them to repair old cars, probably undercutting prices on spare parts manufactured by the car companies and sold by dealerships. Add to that the fact that the Government has closed many GM and Chrysler dealerships, and Barack Obama will become a car dealer’s worst enemy, and the best friend of Joe the Junker.
Your tax dollars at work.
Steve Z on August 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM
The same people who march in front of Walter Reed want to bring that same level of government openness and efficiency to the rest of us.
Jim Treacher on August 17, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Hello everybody!
ConservativeJawa on August 17, 2009 at 5:26 PM
I want to buy a car with the cash for clunkers. I drive a 92 acura legand. It does not qualify for the program because of 1 mpg I filed a complaint with my Congressman. He sent my complaint to the highway safety board who is running the program. I stated that I only get 17 miles to the gallon. I was notified tough luck. I have the money to buy the new car. I was going to even get a green car (cause I’m cheap, VW tdi gets the mileage) but no one want to help me out.
uber on August 17, 2009 at 5:27 PM
Faking the moon landing was no more or no less constitutional than actually landing on the moon.
daesleeper on August 17, 2009 at 5:29 PM
What was old is new again. There are private firefighting operations popping up all over the USA.
daesleeper on August 17, 2009 at 5:32 PM
So what happened to my first $1B? This is getting to be like a shell game. Can you not see our health care being reimbursed in the same manner. Oh, wait, maybe this is how Barry is going to save on health care.
Kissmygrits on August 17, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Oh, but you just wait until they all begin starting fires to drum up a little business. We can only trust our government – not our fellow profit-chasing man.
/sarc
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Obama and his gang of merry thugs were sitting around one afternoon wondering how they could “get rid of” dealerships so there would be less competition for their Chrysler and GM’s since they had already stolen most of those dealerships when it came to Rahm.
Hey he said: Let’s come up with a plan where they front a bunch of money and we tell them we will pay them back except we will *&^% them and not give it to them.
That way we can bilk billions more out of the tax payers for a program but just like the stimulus we will NEVER SPEND IT, and after they forgot we have it we can use it where we want to. Like oh I dont know to pay for health care, or give it to Goldman Sachs for bonuses, or just let the Fed keep it!
I called this one weeks ago. I knew they did not give a damn about the American economy.
We have got to re-double our efforts to not just stop, but KILL HR3200. Then we have to start FORCING Obama using Michelle’s information to GET RID OF THE CZARS! They are unconstitutional, and this bill is unconstitutional!
Watch for the public option to show up at 3am in the morning!
patriotparty1 on August 17, 2009 at 5:39 PM
as long as everyone can rely on firefighters to arrive when their home is on fire, i don’t mind access to superior service for those who can afford it. same with health care.
sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Beyond cash for clunkers, they finally got around to putting back in special depreciation on aircraft and large ticket items like motor coaches for businesses. The dimwits were kind enough to even make it retroactive back to the first of the year when it expired.
Problem being: In the worst economic times since FDR, the demoncrats drove up the price of a small business aircraft, say, $80,000 over the Bush/Republican era first year ownership costs. Ditto for motorcoaches…
In the meantime, while they were changing their minds about punishing success, aircraft companies laid off the average joe worker. And motorcoach manufactures like Monaco went out of business.
trollkiller on August 17, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Currently, you don’t even have to be a legal citizen residing in the United States of America to receive ‘superior service’. What was the problem again?
daesleeper on August 17, 2009 at 5:49 PM
if they can afford it.
sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Typical Pa. Democrap.”I’m a flaming,self-indulgent Liberal,but until election day,I’ll pretend to be a concerned Conservative.Just like Bob”where am I?” Casey.
DDT on August 17, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Fixed!
Kissmygrits on August 17, 2009 at 5:33 PM
dhunter on August 17, 2009 at 5:58 PM
These people could screw up a wet dream.
Terrye on August 17, 2009 at 6:02 PM
In the letter, Sestak said only 2 percent of claims have been paid and that four of every five applications have been “rejected for minor oversight.”
Is he talking about what it will be like filing a health claim under ObamaCare?
albill on August 17, 2009 at 6:03 PM
Should we also be providing everyone with food, shelter and a job? All these are universally more essential than healthcare (e.g., everyone requires food, shelter etc but only a smaller percentage require health care) so why shouldn’t we make these ‘available’ to everyone as well?
I find it astonishing that you take one of the most expensive and advanced commodities (medicine) and demand that it be provided ‘for free’. Conservatives don’t want people to die in the streets but we get uppity when the solution involves infringing on our liberties and spending money we don’t have on a half-baked plan that won’t work anyway.
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 6:04 PM
And all those mechanics who tell people with flat tires they need a new motor, and all those plumbers who roam neighborhoods late at night tampering with people’s septic systems so they get called in to fix them, lol.
xblade on August 17, 2009 at 6:05 PM
Yeah, and where did all those spam emails from solinsky.axelrox@whitehouse.com come from, really? Obama saying 3rd party, how convenient (what 3rd party)… think with all their technology they would have traced back to root cause by now. Fox better not let up on this until they have root cause and the true source! Hannity, Beck… Garrett!
wonk-a-donk on August 17, 2009 at 6:10 PM
It IS a radical idea, and your argument is asinine on so many fronts.
And FYI….government acting for the good of others has killed more people than the private sector could even dream of.
xblade on August 17, 2009 at 6:16 PM
first, you will be required to get health insurance, so you’ll be paying for it. second, human compassion dictates, let alone christian faith fwiw, that we treat medicine as something more than a mere commodity.
sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 6:18 PM
And by the way, fire departments are a local issue, not federal. There is no nationalized fire department of America. It should be the same with health care. If a state wants to experiment with government health care, that’s up to them. But most of them don’t. Why? Because they know it doesn’t work, and they know they can’t afford it. They’re only for it if they can pass the cost off to the federal government.
xblade on August 17, 2009 at 6:23 PM
Not a big fan of freedom, are you?
xblade on August 17, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Compassion and Christianity dictate that the government should step in and take care of the problem and do a crappy job of it.
I know that commodity is a dirty word to liberals but it’s not to me – a Christian who considers himself imperfect but compassionate – because a commodity in the context of a free market system is subject to certain forces. In a free market system commodities tend to get cheaper, more abundant and higher quality. So, wanting to expose the commodity of medicine to these forces IS compassionate.
Regardless of whether or not you want to view medicine as a commodity it IS a commodity – it’s a service provided by people that has a cost. Even in the most hard core socialist and totalitarian systems health care is a commodity – even though it’s ‘free’.
I’ll grant you that you have good intentions – that in your mind having government run healthcare will make everyone’s life better. I disagree with your solution (e.g., government is the answer) but agree with your very basic premise (e.g., healthcare should be cheaper and more available). I also fully support charitable organizations and citizens and doctors coming together to provide ‘free’ healthcare to those in need – I’m just very wary of government being in charge of it.
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Then why don’t Mexican illegals just stay in Mexico and take advantage of their free, government run health care system instead of getting care in the US where, according to you, they can’t afford it?
xblade on August 17, 2009 at 6:32 PM
Why doesn’t human compassion dictate that we provide everyone with food, a house and a job, a spouse and kids?
Margaret Thatcher was right – the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 7:01 PM
So, does that mean that the dealers are on the hook for the money they knocked off of the price of the car?
Are the cars being destroyed immediately? If not, then I guess the dealer could sell them, just as if they were regular trade-ins.
jana on August 17, 2009 at 7:15 PM
I’m confused. So I can trade my 47 Studebaker so grandma can get a plastic hip?
Jeff from WI on August 17, 2009 at 7:15 PM
from which follows that medicine should have become affordable to everyone like other commodities such as cars, computers, consumer electronics, etc., right?
health care is clearly different from other intensely invention-driven industries. as it is, it doesn’t work as well for everyone as it should. if it needs correction, what entity other than the government has the gravitas to implement or induce any meaningful change?
as much as Americans give to charity each year, that has not solved our problems so far either.
sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 7:18 PM
it dictates that we help others when we can.
sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 7:27 PM
You sir, have just thrown up a strawman and a canard against all the many thousands of volunteer fire departments who have operated successfully for longer than we have been a republic. Shame. Tar and feathers and a pole horse for such iniquity. Your absolute ignorance is exceeded only by your absence of any knowledge of history. Fie on you. Your word has been defamed by yourself.
And not just the volunteer fire department members but those of the community who contributed hours and goods to the support of the volunteers. Your disrespect of those who freely protect many is beneath contempt.
Flying 50 Star US
Caststeel on August 17, 2009 at 7:31 PM
We do NOT have a free market health care system. We have a system with significant government intrusion already which is working counter to healthcare becoming cheaper, more abundant and higher quality.
What does this have to do with the government?
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Keep him on site, gwelf. I wanna another chance at him.
Flying 50 star US
Caststeel on August 17, 2009 at 7:36 PM
As long as we’re not fire fighters who are looking to start fires, insurance employees looking to kill grandma to save money or a doctor who’s looking to do unnecessary surgery or escalate someone’s condition so they require it?
For someone who talks a lot about compassion you seem to have a dim view of the common man and place all your faith in government.
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 7:38 PM
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but this whole cash-for-clunkers idea started in Germany and they went through a lot of the same problems that happened here, months before the program even went active here. Not only is the Washington junta unoriginal, but they didn’t even pay attention to the experience the Germans had for the program that they copied off of them.
Just wehn you think the left are being as dumb as possible, it turns out that they’re even dumber.
progressoverpeace on August 17, 2009 at 7:43 PM
You ignored Margaret Thatcher’s quote: the problem with socialism is that you run out of other people’s money.
Who’s going to ‘help others’ when the healthcare system goes bankrupt? Before he was elected Obama was a very outspoken critic of the Bush deficit – and now Obama has outdone Bush in a mere 6 months. Medicare and Social Security are on the road to bankruptcy and insolvency. What makes you think that ObamaCare will be any different? Even if you taxed the middle class into poverty you wouldn’t have enough money. Where’s the compassion in putting us on a path of ruin?
‘Arguments’ like the one you posited – that conservatives aren’t compassionate – are a total evasion of the issues. Our compassion won’t make the deficit disappear or ObamaCare affordable or efficient. I would rather rely on the compassion in the free market than the compassion of government bureaucrats who will get to make healthcare decisions for me. When the government tells me I have to wait 6 months for cancer treatment that hasn’t advanced in 10 years what good will it’s ‘compassion’ do me?
gwelf on August 17, 2009 at 7:47 PM
The rationing of government money has already begun. It’s simple, withhold the $$$ and let a few of them die. This saves $$$. Oh, I’m sorry, is the cash for clunkers thread? Meant to post this on the healthcare thread.
MichiganMatt on August 17, 2009 at 7:47 PM
You got that right PoP. Sweden is cutting back their welfare state. France is the world’s leader in nuclear/electric power.
Germany and Italy are wanting out of Euro Cap’n Tax. But Washington keeps on with the same ol’ tired programs that have always failed. No wonder public trust is deserting Democrats.
Flying 50 Star US
Caststeel on August 17, 2009 at 7:50 PM
You don’t like the new 57 Star US? Change.
progressoverpeace on August 17, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Have been looking for that for a while. Heh. Guess I’ll settle for a 30 Star US. The one before California. Home is Pasadena but nobody is literate enough to get the joke.
BTW take a look at 1st Confederate. Also heh.
Flying 50 Star US
Caststeel on August 17, 2009 at 7:58 PM
europeans are evil.
sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 8:06 PM
Don’t buy this populism swing from Sestak. He needs headlines in PA to beat a household name in the party-hopping Arlen Specter.
Scranton on August 17, 2009 at 8:29 PM
I don’t know if thiswhas been pointed out already or not but
The Big 3 gave heavily to Obama rightly assuming that he was more apt to continue with the bailout funds. And we all know the UAW Dem proclivities.
So now we see dealers getting screwed by an Obama sponsored program after already having many of them forcibly retired, at least the GM and Chrysler ones where he had the leverage.
Why you might ask is he so brutal to auto dealers? Why it’s the Rahmmy fueled vindictiveness that left regularly employs. The National Auto Dealerships Association overwhelming threw it’s weight behind McCain!
Make sense now?
Archimedes on August 17, 2009 at 8:35 PM
liberals think this is an opportunity to use the government apparatus to help others, based on the assumption that its workable and will benefit us as a nation on the balance. you oppose the idea because you don’t think it’s workable, not necessarily because you’re not compassionate, which is fine. trouble is, as far as being right on key issues, conservatives have had an extremely poor track record in recent
yearsdecades.sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 8:36 PM
dude.
sesquipedalian on August 17, 2009 at 8:39 PM
Sesquipedalian @ 8:36
Seems Canada is going to overhaul its Healthcare plan and do some privatizing. Did you know the third largest employer in the world is the UK National Health Service? How would we pay for the #1 spot?
elclynn on August 17, 2009 at 10:24 PM
by killing a few thousand people, too.
cpr on August 17, 2009 at 10:24 PM
They can process 2% of the claims per month? So it will take 50 months to process them all. That is longer than a 4 year car loan. I wonder how many car dealers the government will put out of business for giving the government a 4 year interest free loan.
percysunshine on August 18, 2009 at 8:07 AM
I’m not sure what issues conservatives have been wrong on in recent decades but perhaps you’re conflating Republican with conservative. It’s hard to tell from your vagueness and since I don’t have the liberal mindset I don’t see what you’re pointing at.
This morning I heard a statistic (on NPR) that Medicare loses several hundreds of billions of dollars every year to fraud. Several hundreds of billions of dollars. Every year. I can only imagine the waste involved if the government takes on a venture like ObamaCare which is massively larger than Medicare. It would certainly be unsustainable.
gwelf on August 18, 2009 at 8:24 AM
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