Dem Senator: Public option is dead; Update: Sebelius video added
posted at 12:30 pm on August 16, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
If Barack Obama hoped to rescue his vision of a health-care system overhaul with his wan effort in the New York Times, a key member of the Senate Democratic Caucus threw a bucket of cold water on those hopes this morning. Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND) told a television audience that the pursuit of a public option for coverage was a “wasted effort” that would kill any hope of passage in the upper chamber. Obama, said Conrad, should exercise more humility in approaching a government role in American health care — and even Obama’s key Cabinet member agrees:
“Look, the fact of the matter is there are not the votes in the U.S. Senate for the public option, there never have been,” Conrad said in an interview on “Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace.”
“So to continue to chase that rabbit is, I think, a wasted effort,” Conrad said.
His comments followed Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius’s remark that a public option is “not the essential element” to ensure competition in the health insurance market. Sebelius made the remark on CNN’s “State of the Union.”
A public option is included in legislation moving through the House, and is backed by liberals, who would feel betrayed if it is not a part of a final bill. They see a public insurance plan as critical to ensure that private insurance companies offer coverage and lower costs.
Sebelius signaled a big shift in the White House position today. It looks as though Barack Obama may have realized that the failure to get the bill finished before the summer recess has killed the Trojan horse through which the White House hoped to accomplish the nationalization of health care. It sounds as though Obama wants to alert Democrats at town-hall meetings to stop defending the public option and expect to see it removed from the bills when Congress returns in September.
Conrad’s abandonment of the public option underscores the necessity of the shift. Conrad comes from a red state with a high degree of populism, which might have been expected to back ObamaCare and the public option. It hasn’t worked out that way when Democrats went home to visit constituents. Not only have red-state voters become passionately opposed to government takeover of health care, but independents and even some liberal districts have seen a high degree of anger and fear of losing a system that works for most Americans. When opponents of ObamaCare get cheers in townhall meetings with Rep. Keith Ellison in one of the most liberal districts in America, MN-05, we know that advocates have something to fear from voter backlash in 2010.
The big question will be whether liberal Democrats will allow anything to pass without a public option. Three weeks ago, I would have said that Democrats would have passed anything to allow Obama to escape this trap while saving face. I’m not sure that’s possible any longer. The biggest threat now would be that both the Senate and the House might pass separate bills without public options, and then have it restored in conference committee. This is no time to get complacent.
Update: Politico has the video clip of Sebelius gently retreating from the public option:
A White House aide said in an e-mailed statement Sunday afternoon that “nothing has changed” in the administration’s approach.
“The president has always said that what is essential is that health insurance reform must lower costs, ensure that there are affordable options for all Americans and it must increase choice and competition in the health insurance market,” said Linda Douglass, communications director for the White House Office of Health Reform. “He believes the public option is the best way to achieve those goals.
But taken together, the remarks from Obama, Sebelius and Conrad suggest the White House is preparing supporters for a health care compromise that may well exclude the government option — which could help Obama win enough votes for a sweeping overhaul but touch off a nasty battle inside his own party between liberals and more moderate members who have resisted a bigger government role in health care.
Pass the popcorn, and expect this to get nasty on the Left.
Blowback
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Yeah, kill the WHOLE bill.
Keep in mind everyone, a Co-op will simply replace the public option as a GOVERNMENT-MANDATED provider. What’s actually changed?
The individual mandate is still there. People who are completely happy about their coverage will still find themselves losing their policies and pushed into the public exchange.
The employer mandate is still there, employers will STILL face fines and tax levies if they don’t play by the government’s rules. Small businesses who are struggling with the most dramatic economic challenges in living history will STILL be forced into pushing their employees into the public exchange.
Most importantly, we’re still expected to saddle our children and our children’s children with trillions more in debt because 40 million people are either between jobs, are illegal immigrants, or simply REFUSE to get insurance AT ALL.
So yeah, we need to kill the bill and start over with at bill founded on Tort Reform, Fraud Prevention and Individual responsibility.
Co-ops are nothing more than a re-labelling of yet more socialist incrementalism. KILL THE BILL. Track it down to where it lives and kill it with its children.
Khorum on August 16, 2009 at 10:20 PM
1) No, he was not charged. Someone (supposedly) accused him in a closed door senate subcommittee. That means nothing.
The problem is that the National Review is a Statist\Communist website interested in slandering the anti-conscription movement in the 60′s so they are biased source.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 10:22 PM
+1
jwp1964 on August 16, 2009 at 10:22 PM
let’s make a promise to each other. if congress goes back & passes anything at all about health care, we will parse it & examine it under a microscope.
then all those who voted for it (if its bad, & how could anything from Congress be a good thing?), we promise to work like demons to spread the word & vote every “aye” voter OUT, OUT like Norton’s eye;
kelley in virginia on August 16, 2009 at 10:29 PM
This is from the NY Times. It took me < 2 minutes to find on the web.
‘Later that spring the couple were indicted along with others in Federal Court for crossing state lines to incite a riot during the Days of Rage, and following that for ”conspiracy to bomb police stations and government buildings.” Those charges were dropped in 1974 because of prosecutorial misconduct, including illegal surveillance.’
Charged. Charges dropped. Stop saying he wasn’t charged.
You even lie poorly.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 10:31 PM
Ok, then. Since I don’t do crazy, I’ll have to take leave of our little conversation. See the name? Rational Thought? If I see Crazy Thought, though, I’ll send him your way. Buh-bye.
Rational Thought on August 16, 2009 at 10:35 PM
She says – At the end of the day the statists will get what they want regardless of what’s happening now with the bills.
“Competition to private insurance companies”?
The ultimate socialist statement.!!
Hal-9000 on August 16, 2009 at 10:36 PM
If this is true and it is banned, how did you verify that it did end?
True_King on August 16, 2009 at 10:39 PM
Ah Ok, I didn’t know he had been charged although never convicted.
Well the government was trying to abduct him and force him to murder Vietnamese people. He either had to murder people or get put in a dangerous government prison where he might get raped or something.
I still can sympathize with his hatred for the government during that era although I can’t condone any violence directed towards other citizens.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 10:40 PM
EPIC FAIL
Yakko77 on August 16, 2009 at 10:41 PM
Well we should keep an eye on obama. He’s more trustworthy than Bush, but there’s no reason not to keep on eye on him.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 10:42 PM
I finally found a pretty good primer on co-ops. They have the potential to be pretty decent — or, if Chuckie Schumer has his way, they will be an entree into the public option. Since this is going to be the democrats’ new hill to die on, let’s all bone up. This is a good read from the Heritage Foundation.
Health Care Co-Operatives: Doing It the Right Way
Rational Thought on August 16, 2009 at 10:42 PM
Congress and the POTUS tried to force feed us this 1,000 page nightmare, they’re getting right back in the format we received it—the whole enchilada.
I refuse to allow piecemeal nibbling around the edges, removing something here, adding something there—NO WAY–Return to Sender. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
These fellas want to have it both ways. They want to have their crapsandwich and modify it too. Nope. Full rewrite.
Cancel POTUS travel plans. Laptop, quiet room, glass of water and lightbulb on at the white house. Sit his little professorial butt down and start putting out some vision, yo. Throw it down like Columbia and Harvard taught you. Let’s see what got you those grades we can’t see, and papers no one has read. You’re such a great student—prove it and get your butt typing. You want a signature piece of legislation–word to your motha and WRITE ONE JACK. This one is coming back atcha just like we’ve received it, full meal deal and super size landin right at yo crib. So, park Air Force One for a month, cancel the parties, and show us what you got, yo. Be you ain’t got no game.
ted c on August 16, 2009 at 10:46 PM
Now, in this post, you admit that he “murdered people.”
Excellent.
And, without actually saying “Geez, Massrighty, I was wrong about the fact that he was never charged; and I apollogize.” you at least acknowledge that my facts are correct.
Now, go back and do the hard work.
When you make a statement, be sure to back it up with data from reputable sources.
As I said earlier. Don’t just drink the kool-aid. Do the work.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 10:47 PM
Kill it. Blood and chum in the water.
Kill it. No nibbling, no compromise. No same same from the old days. Bills dead. Carcasses littering all over. All labeled with D’s.
ted c on August 16, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Rational Thought,
Bill Buckley was a CIA agent just before founding the National Review. He made his personal mission to destroy the Libertarian movement, the Bircher movement and the Ayn Rand movement. He also disliked Murray Rothbard, and he favored an Imperial United states.
Bill Buckley R.I.P.
The National Review contributed greatly to ridiculing anti-government conservatives and entrenching the neoconservative movement during the late 70’s and Reagan years. Buckley realized the Iraq invasion was a mistake before he died though, and this probably contributed to his son’s endorsement of Barack Obama.
His site is so watered down now days though, that it’s even worse.
John Derbyshire is good though. I like reading some of his stuff on the National Review, but most of the rest is no good,
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 10:50 PM
massrighty ,
No I didn’t. I said he would have had to murder people (for the government in Vietnam) or go to jail (another bad option), or he would have to go underground,
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 10:51 PM
He could have opposed the war. He could have been a conscientious objecter. He could have fled the country.
Instead, he planned bombings, and built explosives, and participated in acts that resulted in the deaths of innocent people.
Get this through your head. He (at the very least) was complicit in the murder of Americans.
Bad guy. Indefensible acts.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 10:57 PM
massrighty,
NO….he maintains his innocence and he has not been convicted.
Also I consider the Weather Underground to be a pacifist group compared to what LBJ-Nixon was doing.
Carter realized that many of the people hiding from the conscription were in a catch-22, and that’s why he had to issue pardons.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM
+10 post of the day
smellthecoffee on August 16, 2009 at 11:04 PM
Isn’t that what muhammad ali was and they put him in a government prison, which are extremely dangerous anyway?
Muhammad Ali maybe should have joined the Weather Underground as a better option although he would probably be recognized very easily.
Good thing we don’t have National I.D. cards so that people can still escape the Federal Government.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:07 PM
Opposing the existence of a Federal Government and Federal power would make one an anarchist, or perhaps a nihilist even, not a libertarian.
MB4 on August 16, 2009 at 11:08 PM
You don’t get to define the terms for the Libertarian movement.
There is a lot of room within the Libertarian movement for the anarchist movement, with which I certainly identify. It’s big tent.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:11 PM
I don’t believe that Cassius Clay, aka Mohammad Ali, ever spent a day in a federal prison.
MB4 on August 16, 2009 at 11:13 PM
And you and illogic do?
They don’t make tents that big. They don’t make anything that big.
MB4 on August 16, 2009 at 11:15 PM
Ah OK.
Well he had a lot of money so maybe he was able to stay out of prison, but I bet that most draft dodgers were not so fortunate.
If everyone could just file for “conscientious objector” then no one would have gone in the first place so the government tries to destroy people who do not comply.
But don’t you think Bill Ayers and the Weathermen would have had a much harder time staying underground if we had allowed a national I.D. card?
That gives the Federal Government even more control over people.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:18 PM
“They don’t make tents that big. They don’t make anything that big.”
Of course they do. The anarchist-wing of the libertarian movement is expanding rapidly due to the Bush years. Ron Paul’s former chief of staff founded the Mises Institute, which advocates anarchism.
We will get a more radical Libertarian Party next time I think. No more Bob Barr.
Even the Constitution Party had a better candidate than him.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:21 PM
Let it rot on the vine… Burn the copy machines that printed such travesties, and then flush the socialized documents…
BLKandPRD on August 16, 2009 at 11:23 PM
I don’t recall Ted Nugent spending any time in a federal prison either. No other names come to mind either although they could have been a few.
Murphy’s First Rule of Holes – when in one, first stop digging.
MB4 on August 16, 2009 at 11:23 PM
If a tent, hypothetically, were to be that big it would take a Starship going at Warp 9 at least 1,000 years to go from one end to the other.
MB4 on August 16, 2009 at 11:28 PM
MB4,
Well going underground was a good option too because that way you did not risk getting put in jail or charged with a fake crime (avoiding the draft.)
I am willing to bet some people did get put in jail for it though even if Muhammad Ali did not spend much time there.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:28 PM
There is a LPRadicals Caucus that is anarchist.
I think there used to be a Rothbard Caucus that was about the same.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:32 PM
An I am willing to bet that you will keep trying to move the goal posts.
I am not aware of his having spent any time in a federal prison.
You are in gross violation of Murphy’s First Rule of Holes. You are probably so deep down now that you will need the world’s longest ladder and a flashlight with lithium batteries to find your way out.
MB4 on August 16, 2009 at 11:35 PM
MB4,
I think moving the goal posts is relevant since some people did go to prison for draft dodging.
Bill Ayers needed to make sure he did not.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:40 PM
Where on earth did Spathi come from? Did somebody open the Paul-nut door again?
Sporty1946 on August 16, 2009 at 11:41 PM
Yep, Ritter was popped twice for trying to have sex with underage girls. The result was that someone put in the fix.
Blake on August 16, 2009 at 11:43 PM
From Instapundit:
“NOTHING HAS CHANGED:” Administration Official: “Sebelius Misspoke.” Of course she did.
Drained Brain on August 16, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Well we certainly know Iraq didn’t have any WMD.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 11:47 PM
HE WON’T QUIT. NEVER TRUST HIM.
He’ll just keep on loading regulations, restrictions, taxes, fees, limitations (for them, not policyholders), extra coverage requirements and forcing them to make up for Medicare reimbursement shortfalls…
…and in a year or two the health insurance industry will be in such a shape that Comrade Dear Leader Obama and his commissars will try to ‘ride to the rescue’ once again.
Tailgunner on August 16, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Barack Obama, Ready To Lead On Day One?
Flip. Flop. Flip Flop. Flip. Flop.
TN Mom on August 16, 2009 at 11:51 PM
Obama is a true believer, not a politician. Everything he has done has been to achieve the end result of Socialism. If he were a politician, he would have done the middle of the road changes, bipartisan stuff first and saved the far left agenda for later in his administration or second term. He will not back down.
He is dragging the country farther left that Marx could have ever dreamed.
Laura in Maryland on August 16, 2009 at 11:52 PM
Sorry to get OT, but I wanted to make sure I didn’t offend you the other night on the “Southern” thread. I made a joke and assumed you knew I was making fun of those who disparage southerners (of which I am one originally). If I did offend, I wish to apologize.
Laura in Maryland on August 16, 2009 at 11:54 PM
I am sure that they will try to stick in some omnibus spending bill, at the last minute so nobody has a chance to see it.
Sporty1946 on August 16, 2009 at 11:58 PM
An administration official said tonight that Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius “misspoke” when she told CNN this morning that a government run health insurance option “is not an essential part” of reform.
J_Crater on August 17, 2009 at 12:05 AM
We need to keep hitting the mandates too.
Turning the public against mandates will put a stake into the bill.
jhffmn on August 17, 2009 at 12:10 AM
I am not buying this. Not for a second.
Dave R. on August 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM
Blood thirsty war mongering democrats goaded George Bush into invading Iraq.
“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real…”
– Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
– Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
– President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
– President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
“We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.”
– Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998
“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
– Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
– Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
– Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
– Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
– Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
– Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
– Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
MB4 on August 17, 2009 at 12:30 AM
MB4 on August 17, 2009 at 12:30 AM
gina4 on August 17, 2009 at 12:45 AM
Ahhh, the truth comes out! It was a trial balloon to see how the far left would react…now that they have freaked out The One backs off…pubic option is STILL IN…we must kill the bill in its entirety.
JustTruth101 on August 17, 2009 at 12:52 AM
MB4,
I agree with you on those quotes. Saddam should have been been certified WMD free in 1997, but Bill Clinton preempted the report.
Thanks!!
He changed the terms from originally having a reward (eventually getting sovereignty back) to continuous WMD searches without any reward.
So then after Clinton changes the terms of the agreement to provoke Saddam into stopping all compliance, he started a 1998 bombing campaign.
Ya so Clinton should never be trusted.
Spathi on August 17, 2009 at 12:52 AM
MB4,
All those quotes just goes to show you that the neoliberal movement has really taken over the dems party. They’re essentially neoconservatives with a different style to them that the democrats like.
Spathi on August 17, 2009 at 12:53 AM
Distrust and verify
lanesmerge on August 17, 2009 at 1:38 AM
Public option or not, the day a national plan is passed, covering tens of millions of new people, the SEIU, the nationa’s largest health and services employees union becomes our boss
The SEIU sees the golden ring within reach
I feel a bait and switch headache coming on
Who will be the good cop and who will play the bad cop?
I am guessing the old codgers will be praised for their Townhall efforts and a new plan will be created ‘just for them’. Labor day is coming. That is a good time for another end run
Curtain down on Act I. Act II will follow after a brief time to rewrite talking points
entagor on August 17, 2009 at 3:47 AM
According to Howard Dean, the next 8 weeks are critical:
Most important? That’s if we let them.
misslizzi on August 17, 2009 at 5:46 AM
Senator:
American citizens united for the purposes of freedom, liberty and truth in government hereby demand that HR 3200 and all Senate versions be summarily destroyed in place.
We have witnessed the expeditious rollout and attempted passage of 1,017 pages of an omnibus legislative effort halted only by the increasingly skeptical eyes of the American Citizen. A boisterous and proper response, as well as deeper examination of this healthcare legislation has revealed nefarious ethics, increased taxpayer costs and a significant loss of freedom to patients and providers alike. Congress and the White House have lost a significant amount of trust by this rapid effort as both polls and opposition demonstrate clearly.
Today, we witness the attempted “piecemeal editing” of these healthcare legislative efforts. The Senate removed “death panel” provisions and yesterday the White House signaled removal of the “public option” portion of these bills. This modification effort via piecemeal implies the premise that the legislation is right and proper and simply needs modifications around the edges. The American public fundamentally rejects this notion and firmly insists that the legislation that was omnibus, far reaching and massive in its initial presentation, similarly be returned, in its entirety, to its ill-prepared originators in a massive signal from the American Citizen that this legislation is not worthy of our trust, nor time.
We submit to you, Senator, that the President has signaled that “healthcare reform” is a fundamental piece of his governing agenda. Our plan recommends that the president retreat to the White House and begin providing the American people with his vision on healthcare via his own hand. Our guidelines insist that the founding principles of America be addressed in this effort. His references shall include the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers, and the US Constitution. The professor is now the student and the American Taxpayer is now grading the paper. The first draft has been given an “F” and the second draft will be reviewed thoroughly. We the People will determine if and when any healthcare legislation is ready or able to do the job that impacts our lives and those of our children.
In summary, piecemeal editing on omnibus legislation is disingenuous and wrongly assumes the first effort was largely correct. This legislation is being returned in the same fashion it was delivered.
ted c on August 17, 2009 at 6:23 AM
I just heard on Fox and Friends that the White House is saying Sebelius misspoke. That happens a lot with Obama administrations officials.
Terrye on August 17, 2009 at 6:32 AM
So you are one of those crazies huh.
jhffmn on August 17, 2009 at 6:37 AM
Wow, it took them almost a whole day, huh?
misslizzi on August 17, 2009 at 6:46 AM
Health care co-ops are just pigs wearing lipstick. Besides, there’s nothing that says everything taken out can’t be stuffed back in during a 3AM session, since nobody knows WTF is in there anyhow. Very simply, KILL THE BILL.
Mr. Grump on August 17, 2009 at 7:18 AM
To quote one of their own: “Lying liars who lie.” I just don’t trust them. they want to quiet things down out here and I hope people continue to squawk. They are already saying Sibelius misspoke. These people can’t organize a trip to the bathroom.
Jaclyn on August 17, 2009 at 7:18 AM
Don’t believe it.
Conrad is conniving with Obama. Something’s up.
The public option is dead?
Uh huh.
So now it’ll be called a “non-private” option.
drjohn on August 17, 2009 at 7:26 AM
You should really try reading more then just one article before forming your foolish opinions.
right2bright on August 17, 2009 at 7:28 AM
anti-Bush
anit-Buckley
all within minutes…don’t you get tired of trolling?
right2bright on August 17, 2009 at 7:30 AM
The Obamabots have lots of splainin’ to do today.
____
Kill the bill and quit spending money!!!!
yoda on August 17, 2009 at 7:32 AM
Believe this administration at your own peril . . . it’s as crooked as a dog’s leg and as slick as a greased eel. Until this socialist healthcare aberration is kicked to the curb and completely destroyed, Obama and his merry band of socialists will ensure its rebirth over and over and over. Don’t accept the bones they throw because they are nothing but bait.
rplat on August 17, 2009 at 7:36 AM
Howard Dean was just on MSNBC-
Public option is not dead, this is just to get it out of the Senate while the house bill has a public option. It goes to reconciliation and the final bill has public option which now only needs 50 votes to get out of the Senate.
In other words folks the filthy liar in the White House is still planning on seizing healthcare. Plan and act accordingly.
highhopes on August 17, 2009 at 7:38 AM
well said
cmsinaz on August 17, 2009 at 7:41 AM
God Bless for listening to Dean, have to switch the channel when he comes on the screen…..
agree with ya, it will be put back in there somehow, someway….
cmsinaz on August 17, 2009 at 7:43 AM
Obama is absolutely reliably more a liar than any other POTUS in American history. That’s your “trustworthy”–they guy who says, “trust me” yet won’t open records to document his own life’s history. Transcripts? The One don’t need no transcripts.
maverick muse on August 17, 2009 at 8:07 AM
The ability at self-deception never ceases to amaze.
drjohn on August 17, 2009 at 8:09 AM
Code language for: post vague comments with hints of possible violence on political blogs.
YOU CAN TAKE AWAY MY DOCTOR
BUT
YOU WILL NEVER TAKE AWAY MY RIFLE(S)
GOD BLESS
welcome_ghosts on August 17, 2009 at 8:10 AM
Obatomize HR3200
maverick muse on August 17, 2009 at 8:11 AM
Don’t stupidly post “violence”–not even to hint it.
Don’t ever sh!t where you eat.
maverick muse on August 17, 2009 at 8:16 AM
maverick muse on August 17, 2009 at 8:16 AM
Mav, the only violence most of use would ever support in dropping the Ban Hammer on all these new Trolls.
kingsjester on August 17, 2009 at 8:30 AM
So NO. The congress does not have constitutional authority to do this. Nor should they. Remember if you give a mouse a cookie he’s gonna want a glass of milk.
You are correct to be affronted with the cost of the socialism already on the books. The correct answer is to take it OFF THE BOOKS and send the illegals home.
I did the math on sending the illegals home and you might be interested to learn that it can be done for the cost of ONE TENTH of what we spent last year on the War on Drugs.
Anyone telling you its not possible is a bald faced liar. The reality is they do not want to upset the Hispanic and illegal vote.
dogsoldier on August 17, 2009 at 8:32 AM
I dont claim to know how ALL Americans feel but I know how I feel, and judging by the outcry we see coming from people who have never protested before, who have always been the silent majority, and the sinking poll numbers of this fraud in the white house I have something to say that I feel NEEDS to be said because there is more than just the spending, and the bills at work here and Americans know it. Where there are thousands coming out to speak up there are thousands, maybe even millions more at home thinking the same thing! That is why I am going to get on a bus and ride for 20 hours to get to Washington DC on 9/12 and why millions of us need to be there!
THIS PRESIDENT AND HIS MINIONS GIVE AMERICANS THE CREEPS!
It is truly right and correct that the American people point out the similarities of this administration to Hitler and the national socialists he put together because Obama is attempting to do the same thing here! He was raised, and mentored by communists. He sought them out when he got older to continue his communist connections. He sympathizes with Bill Ayers and his ilk, and he got married to, and by black liberation communists!
Let’s quit kidding ourselves here!
He is giving comfort to our enemies. He is trying to add to the call for Isreal to commit national suicide by seeding lands that are theirs to the Palestinians. God GAVE that land to them, and he has told them to never give up even so much as an inch of it lest they incur his rath as a few of her leaders have found out the hard way when they fell ill and died, or became vegatables after making deals to give up land. He has said that whomever stands with Isreal shall receive his blessings like America enjoyed for so long and whomever goes against her shall have those blessings taken away, as America is starting to see as we fall further and further as we let our leaders backstab, and not back Isreal.
Obama is showing a fondness for the murderous dictators of this world in Iran, and Cuba, and with Chavez.
He in short gives most people who live outside of the marxist, left wing universities, and major cities of this country “THE CREEPS”. He makes the little hairs on the back of your neck stand up when he speaks or is near.
His little made up images and signs he feels he must have for every occasion give us the creeps. They look weird in their blue fields with red stripes and some sort of muslim/communist looking cresent on them. His health care sign with ghostly looking lines of people standing there and again his 3 stars and logo just like the nazi signs remind us of the jews lines up for the gas chambers.
The people he places close to him, Rahm, the Eugenists, the black liberationists he makes czars of, the out and out communists he is trying to go around congerss to stack our government with, gives us the creeps.
The fact that his AG Holder, when he FIRST comes to power calls all of us in the nation COWARDS ON RACE, and then proceeds to let off the black panthers who were intimidating voters gives us the creeps. The fact that they were even allowed to be outside a polling place and that one has been cleared to be a poll watcher next election is creepy.
His website for Americans to TURN IN other Americans because something they expressed in their rights as Americans to exercise freedom of speech because it was somehow “fishy” is Hitleresque and creepy.
His hoards of Americorp, and ACORN, and Organize for America people with their blind following and military style plans for our children to be indoctrinated in some sort of forced so called community service is creepy. The fact that our tax dollars are taken from us to fund these tax free entities who are investigated for voter fraud, and embezelment of those tax payer dollars, who try to win through intimidation is creepy.
The way his wife has this look of absolute hatred on her face when they catch her not knowing the camera is there is creepy.
The things they both say about this being a great country, and they are going to change that. That Barak will REQUIRE you to engage, and there will be sacrifice, and for the first time in her life she is proud of her country is creepy.
Telling people they need to do something (anything) so that all can be equal is something we have heard too many times in other countries as we watched or read in our history books about how millions have been tortured and killed to atain that utopian ideal of equal is creepy.
A sitting US Senator going to Kenya and campaigning for a family member who wants to install sharia law in all of it’s abhorant forms to women and then is later heard of hacking up Christians is creepy.
The fawning followers and media coverage bought and paid for makes us wonder if the whole of what we always considered principaled people were always fooling us. Most people just realized after his death that even Walter Cronkite the man they always looked to in their times of trouble in the country was one of THEM! One of those who thinks the best path for us is to give over all of our freedoms to some sort of world power to be led around from birth to death by a human concept of good and equal for all. That is creepy!
And most of all the powers in the dark behind him, the Rockafellers, Soros the country killer, the Kennedys, the Bilderbergs, the tri-lateral, the UN, and EU, all point to what we just feel is the untimate goal of them and that is domination and destruction of America, it’s constitution, and our way of life! That because of this country’s greatness we should somehow be ashamed and give it all up so that all in the world be they good or bad, if they want to kill us or not can have the same. We do not understand how they cannot see, that by making us weak they make the whole world weak because America and the wonderful people of this country will no longer be there to fight their wars against those who would conquer them, or rescue them from disasters and bring them food, and comfort. We will no longer be there for them, and believe me it would not take long for them to notice our absence.
Any president that stands before countries some allies, some not and declares to them that America is not a Christian nation is an abomination to us! We are a Christian nation, we were FOUNDED on God’s laws, our CONSTITUTION, was written by Godly men and patterened after the rules of morality and love for one’s neighbor. And whenever ANYONE we elect to represent us attempts to tell us, and other countries, that we no longer back Isreal, and we no longer believe in the principles installed in the constitution, and we do not want God to be a part of our government and country we say to that person: YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA, AND YOU SIR HAVE NO RIGHT OR AUTHORITY TO REPRESENT US, OR SPEAK FOR US!
We feel it in our bones. Something is wrong with this man and what he is trying to do.
HE IS CREEPY!
So we will say it as much as we like! We will carry it on signes! We will scream it at our leaders! WE WILL NOT LET YOU MAKE US COMMUNISTS/SOCIALISTS/MARXISTS OR WHATEVER THE HELL IT IS YOU ARE TRYING TO DO! We have fought before over this, and we are willing to do it again!
So HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, NAZI, NAZI, NAZI, NAZI, NAZI……………
We say grace, we say ma’am if you aint into that WE DONT GIVE A DAMN!
patriotparty1 on August 17, 2009 at 8:36 AM
Along with WHO hyping the swine flu, this administration has an incestuous relationship with the pharmaceutical industry. The hype surrounding “demand” for their vaccine is disgusting. Even now, they “debate” whether to stretch the vaccine by adding aluminum.
As if Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) the nerve killer disease known to be triggered by the swine flu vaccine isn’t bad enough. Just to be sure to inflict permanent damage on the human body, inject aluminum for Alzheimer’s, broadening both the early demise of the population as well as the population segment deemed unworthy of future Socialized medical treatment. And claim the best of intentions, of course, since MORE scientific research–pharmaceutical absorption of tax funds–is “needed” in these areas. Just how much poison can the human body tolerate; and what are the effects? Yeah, exactly what DESERVES to suck up what’s left of our tax dollars before the dollar collapses. By then, our bodies will be all we have to barter for medical services from the eugenicist Lords of Persecution.
Nix HR3200
Demand the GOP Caucus of Doctors get to write the federal bill regarding affordable and accessible American health care.
Get C-SPAN to rebroadcast their hour presentation initially broadcast the last week of July 2009. I am surprised at the lack of coordinated effort amongst the entire body of our elected conservatives, as their own promotion denied the legal process in Congress (Pelosi/Reid won’t allow participation) needs coordinated broadcast by PJTV and independent cable and radio stations. Who’s stopping the GOP Caucus of Doctors from repeating their presentation if C-SPAN doesn’t let the first video get released?
maverick muse on August 17, 2009 at 8:38 AM
Congress and the President seized upon the liberty to create this 1,017 page monstrosity and their majorities to foist it upon us. Moreover, they are now seizing upon the liberty to edit it in place. They vigorously attempted to deny the American Citizen the liberty to debate and inspect this legislation before passage.
I submit to the fellow thinkers here at HotAir that we deny Congress the liberty of editing HR 3200 in place. Denial of liberty is a door that swings both ways. Deny our liberty once, shame on you, deny it twice–shame on us. This bill is NOT going to be piecemealed back–a rescaling of provisions, a renaming of portions, a billion here, a billion there. Negative. The American Citizens are seizing upon our liberty to force the disposal of that nefarious legislation to the scrap heap of history.
The American Citizens demand an immediate cancellation of presidential trips. The president desires a signature piece of legislation and the American Citizens are granting him the liberty to begin from scratch. He has the liberty to use the US Constitution, The Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers for evidence and support for any position or plan he so chooses. The American Citizens have been denied the liberty of reviewing the president’s grades and papers as a student at Columbia and Harvard. We shall seize upon the liberty to now review his work in crafting his own signature piece of legislation–a challenge we’d expect a professor of his stature and accomplishment could surely welcome. He shall receive no assistance on this assignment except from those references aforementioned. Should the student fail to complete this assignment by the 15th of September, the American Citizen shall see to it that a thorough and proper review of the student’s performance is applied forthwith.
ted c on August 17, 2009 at 8:47 AM
kingsjester on August 17, 2009 at 8:30 AM
As if carrying on legitimate discussions isn’t hard enough here, given the invited trolls that seem to be welcomed by the hosts.
Guilt by association sucks when the federal case is fabricated against legal dissent, prosecution cherry picking evidence as well as producing whole cloth to bind.
Repudiating the ugly ass of ignorant violence we oppose as it rears itself in our presence is necessary to survival these days.
maverick muse on August 17, 2009 at 8:48 AM
GBS is a great format to discuss preventive healthcare and costs.
The key issue here in prevention, as Charles Krauthammer put it last week, is how many people need to be treated or screened in order to prevent one occurrence of the disease? This is termed “number needed to treat to benefit” or NNTB. In heart disease, we may have to screen 1,000 people to find 200 with high cholestorol, treat all of them to prevent 1 heart attack. How much does that cost to screen and treat those people versus simply paying the cost of treating the 1 heart attack?
The second issue, as the Guillain Barre Syndrome is showing, is the ugly side of healthcare prevention. This is “number needed to treat to cause harm” or NNTH. Early evidence has shown that 25 deaths have resulted from swine flu vaccination (GBS related) and that those deaths exceeded the number of deaths as a result of the swine flu itself. Hence, the cost of treatment in this instance appears to be greater than the cost of the disease itself in terms of mortality alone. That says nothing about the cost of researching, producing, and administering the vaccination.
Some things are better left alone. These types of analyses help reveal how to answer these questions.
ted c on August 17, 2009 at 9:01 AM
Indeed, the public option is not dead. The WH and Rahm do not give up this easily. They will probably make a few more attacks on the evil protestors before they start giving up actual ground. Even then they will still keep trying to get the proverbial nose in the tent. They will require frequent swatting to keep them at bay.
RandyChandler on August 17, 2009 at 9:11 AM
I
N ow they must send out fibbs and tell us what she meant to say.
She must have had a senior moment.
seven on August 17, 2009 at 9:32 AM
The enemy falters, but it is not yet beaten.
Chaz706 on August 17, 2009 at 9:39 AM
It’s not dead, they just renamed it.
The latest term of art is health care co-op.
MarkTheGreat on August 17, 2009 at 10:11 AM
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