Dem Senator: Public option is dead; Update: Sebelius video added
posted at 12:30 pm on August 16, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
If Barack Obama hoped to rescue his vision of a health-care system overhaul with his wan effort in the New York Times, a key member of the Senate Democratic Caucus threw a bucket of cold water on those hopes this morning. Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND) told a television audience that the pursuit of a public option for coverage was a “wasted effort” that would kill any hope of passage in the upper chamber. Obama, said Conrad, should exercise more humility in approaching a government role in American health care — and even Obama’s key Cabinet member agrees:
“Look, the fact of the matter is there are not the votes in the U.S. Senate for the public option, there never have been,” Conrad said in an interview on “Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace.”
“So to continue to chase that rabbit is, I think, a wasted effort,” Conrad said.
His comments followed Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius’s remark that a public option is “not the essential element” to ensure competition in the health insurance market. Sebelius made the remark on CNN’s “State of the Union.”
A public option is included in legislation moving through the House, and is backed by liberals, who would feel betrayed if it is not a part of a final bill. They see a public insurance plan as critical to ensure that private insurance companies offer coverage and lower costs.
Sebelius signaled a big shift in the White House position today. It looks as though Barack Obama may have realized that the failure to get the bill finished before the summer recess has killed the Trojan horse through which the White House hoped to accomplish the nationalization of health care. It sounds as though Obama wants to alert Democrats at town-hall meetings to stop defending the public option and expect to see it removed from the bills when Congress returns in September.
Conrad’s abandonment of the public option underscores the necessity of the shift. Conrad comes from a red state with a high degree of populism, which might have been expected to back ObamaCare and the public option. It hasn’t worked out that way when Democrats went home to visit constituents. Not only have red-state voters become passionately opposed to government takeover of health care, but independents and even some liberal districts have seen a high degree of anger and fear of losing a system that works for most Americans. When opponents of ObamaCare get cheers in townhall meetings with Rep. Keith Ellison in one of the most liberal districts in America, MN-05, we know that advocates have something to fear from voter backlash in 2010.
The big question will be whether liberal Democrats will allow anything to pass without a public option. Three weeks ago, I would have said that Democrats would have passed anything to allow Obama to escape this trap while saving face. I’m not sure that’s possible any longer. The biggest threat now would be that both the Senate and the House might pass separate bills without public options, and then have it restored in conference committee. This is no time to get complacent.
Update: Politico has the video clip of Sebelius gently retreating from the public option:
A White House aide said in an e-mailed statement Sunday afternoon that “nothing has changed” in the administration’s approach.
“The president has always said that what is essential is that health insurance reform must lower costs, ensure that there are affordable options for all Americans and it must increase choice and competition in the health insurance market,” said Linda Douglass, communications director for the White House Office of Health Reform. “He believes the public option is the best way to achieve those goals.
But taken together, the remarks from Obama, Sebelius and Conrad suggest the White House is preparing supporters for a health care compromise that may well exclude the government option — which could help Obama win enough votes for a sweeping overhaul but touch off a nasty battle inside his own party between liberals and more moderate members who have resisted a bigger government role in health care.
Pass the popcorn, and expect this to get nasty on the Left.
Blowback
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Here’s hoping those voters wise up and quit voting for DINOs in primaries.
CrankyIndependent on August 16, 2009 at 6:37 PM
Just when you think you’ve stamped out one fire, they have set 10 more.
We CANNOT accept co-ops – tell your Rep now! This is such a ruse by these marxist sneaks – just another name for govt run.
Worth repeating:
See below (compliments of izoneguy)for other sections of the 1100 page nightmare which is dedicated to letting SEIU and ACORN continue to rob us blind and control labor for generations to come. This entire bill is a poison pill.
They want to change IRS & SS rules and give a nod to labor unions with HR 3200 -
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
Page 167
TITLE IV—AMENDMENTS TO INTERNAL REVENUE CODE OF 1986
Subtitle A—Shared Responsibility
Page 489
SEC. 1307. EXCLUDING CLINICAL SOCIAL WORKER SERVICES FROM COVERAGE UNDER THE MEDICARE SKILLED NURSING FACILITY PROSPECTIVE PAYMENT SYSTEM AND CONSOLIDATED PAYMENT.
(a) INGENERAL.—Section 1888(e)(2)(A)(ii) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395yy(e)(2)(A)(ii)) is amended by inserting ‘‘clinical social worker services,’’
after ‘‘qualified psychologist services,’’.
clinical social worker services = ACORN
Page 588 Line 14
PART 2—TARGETING ENFORCEMENT
SEC. 1421. CIVIL MONEY PENALTIES.
Page 1008
(a) SKILLEDNURSINGFACILITIES.—
(1) INGENERAL.—Section 1819(h)(2)(B)(ii) of
the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395i–
3(h)(2)(B)(ii)) is amended to read as follows:
Subtitle D—Grants for Comprehensive Programs to Provide Education to Nurses and Create a Pipeline to Nursing
Page 1009
(c) ELIGIBILITY.—To be eligible for a grant under this section, an entity shall be—
(1) a health care entity that is jointly administered by a health care employer and a labor union (THINK SEIU) – representing the health care employees of the employer and that carries out activities using labor management training funds as provided for under section 302(c)(6) of the Labor Management Relations Act, 1947 (29 U.S.C. 186(c)(6));
izoneguy on August 16, 2009 at 3:23 PM
tigerlily on August 16, 2009 at 6:40 PM
Keep fighting! I am going to show up for a protest outside the hotel where one my senators (Bennett – CO) are staying in my hometown tonight. No public option, No Co-Op!
Norwegian on August 16, 2009 at 6:40 PM
Can anyone name a single success of the Obama Administration? Any “priority” of Obama’s that has become law? Anyone?
So far, this Oneder Kid has been nothing but a complete failure.
29Victor on August 16, 2009 at 6:41 PM
FIFY !
darwin on August 16, 2009 at 6:44 PM
Two Thoughts:
- “You keep using that word (competition); I do not think it means what you think it means.”
- Hopefully, the intraparty brawl on the left will leave scores of them dead or severely wounded (politically speaking).
Jaibones on August 16, 2009 at 6:46 PM
Get? You mean it hasn’t been nasty yet? We’ve had all of the Dem leaders (POTUS, Speaker, Whip, Senate leader, etc. etc.) saying we’re a well dressed un-American racist Nazi thug kkk mob of political terrorists carrying swastikas. Sadly, they’ve said all of t hat and more.
So again, I’m confused. It hasn’t been nasty so far? And again, that’s not the nutroots, that’s elected party leadership.
RightWinged on August 16, 2009 at 6:52 PM
They won’t.
They have even started a new website to petition us all into slavery. Yes, really.
http://www.stopbackingdown.com/
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 16, 2009 at 6:53 PM
So. Let me get this straight.
Conservatives do not support the several proposed bills, because they have intrusive provisions, and don’t address key issues that would improve the process by which we pay for health care.
Liberal extremists do not support the several proposed bills, with the changes that have been announced in them, because they “don’t go far enough.”
So, who’s left to support it:
A. The woefully uninformed.
B. Obama worshippers who have not yet had their de-programming.
C. Special interest recipients of the pork-and-largesse buffet that’s buried in the bill.
“Keep up the skeer,” conservatives. Join us for the fight, ultra-libs. Harry. Frustrate the opposition. Keep the pressure on.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Only retarded Liberals get two half loaves and still think they don’t have a whole…
enoughalready on August 16, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Dr.C; I went to the petition site; it says the petitiion is sponsored by EraofChange.com, a new advocacy group dedicated to realizing the agenda that Americans voted for in November, 2008.
No mention of who this group is, or who it’s backers are.
A trip to the eraofchange web site just plunks you back on the petition site.
I’d love to know who put up the money for this.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 7:07 PM
Beware of Liberals Bearing Gifts
http://www.conservatives4palin.com/2009/08/beware-of-liberals-bearing-gifts.html
Here are some of the disturbing details hidden inside this wooden horse. I recommend we think twice before pulling it inside the gates.
Section 100(c)(25) sets the implementation date as January 1, 2013.
After January 13, 2013, employers must purchase employee health insurance from the government controlled health insurance exchange. Section 313 requires employers to either: a) purchase from the “exchange” a qualified health benefit plan for each employee; or b) pay a tax to the Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund equal to 8% of the employer’s average payroll. Paying the 8% tax does not purchase insurance. Employees would still have to purchase individual health insurance from the “exchange.”
After January 13, 2013, individuals must purchase health insurance from the government controlled health insurance exchange. Section 102 allows non-qualified individual health insurance plans (i.e. those not obtained through an employer) to remain in effect after January 1, 2013 unless: a) the insurance provider increases enrollment in the plan or b) changes any term or condition of the plan. If an individual loses her “grandfathered” health insurance after January 1, 2013, then Section 102(c)(1) requires that she purchase new health insurance from the government run national health insurance exchange.
The so-called private insurance exchange is the Trojan horse. The Insurance Exchange is just as much socialism as the government plan because: a) the government controlled exchange is the only place permitted to sell health insurance; and b) the government can use the exchange rules to control the price and availability of everyone’s health insurance, and therefore, health care.
izoneguy on August 16, 2009 at 7:22 PM
The public option was a Trojan Horse for single payer
Co-ops are a Trojan Unicorn
agmartin on August 16, 2009 at 7:23 PM
Now that we have congress’s attention, let’s strike while the iron is hot. Keep showing up and keep rallying at TEA parties. Ask these critters why they ignore tort reform when there is so much public support for it. Ask them if the new bill will include any conservative ideas.
Don’t settle for them throwing us a few bones. Keep the pressure up.
MobsterinVA on August 16, 2009 at 7:30 PM
I did a little bit of digging. I’d appreciate any further help.
eraofchange.com
Who is Nicholas Smith?
Ahhh……He’s got a blog on OFA, too.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 16, 2009 at 7:30 PM
Thanks. You do good work here.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM
Nicholas E. Smith also owns the domain name stopbackingdown.com. Interesting though……..he claims that he’s in law school in NYC. stopbackingdown.com was registered to an address (student apartments) in Berkeley, CA under his name.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 16, 2009 at 7:48 PM
I haven’t seen anything in the bill or heard anyone talk about guns in this gobment take over of health care. Seems I do remember the librofaciests trying to link guns to healthcare in the past. Are they slipping in their zealotry or are they disguising it as unicorn farts. anybody?
huckelberry on August 16, 2009 at 7:49 PM
I hope Conrad holds his ground. Maybe he and Emanuel can swap dead fish.
d1carter on August 16, 2009 at 7:51 PM
That’s breathtaking. Private enterprise CAN’T BE TRUSTED!!! You’d think that even the Dhimmicrat party would see that this is pure socialism.
Mojave Mark on August 16, 2009 at 7:55 PM
What’s he got left in Porkulus? $700B. That will buy a lot of votes for socialized medicine. Screw the polls. Lie to the voters.
pedestrian on August 16, 2009 at 7:59 PM
You’re not implying that there are inconsistencies or innacuracies in his bio, are you?
He’s an Obama true believer – they’d never do anything that wasn’t completely on the level, would they?
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 8:11 PM
We must not stop until this bill is 100% dead.
thmcbb on August 16, 2009 at 8:11 PM
C4L joins a cross-ideological coalition with the ACLU, Freedom Works, Downsize DC, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others to oppose a Guiliani-style National I.D. card.
ObamaCare and the coming Comprehensive Immigration reform bill may both feature Guiliani-style National I.D. cards so we need bipartisan opposition to it.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Co-ops are public options under a different name .Don,t be fooled.
thmcbb on August 16, 2009 at 8:15 PM
Whatever comes out of a Democratic Congress and a Democratic Administration is going to suck.
mankai on August 16, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Just because it is “off the table” don’t think for ONE minute they have given up. I don’t trust ANY of these clowns in DC to back door this takeover of health care in something else.
Just wait until they get back in September, a good sized hurricane would be all they need to back door something in, when everyone is looking the other way. Don’t stop “pestering” (as they call it) your elected officials. Make sure they know that if they vote for this garbage, you will see they never hold office again.
p51d007 on August 16, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Becoming the Obama Administration.
And… nope, that’s it.
Jim Treacher on August 16, 2009 at 8:32 PM
You can bet your bippies that Tricky Obama Dicky is playing a shell game.
When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don’t adjust the goals, adjust the action steps.
- Confucius
MB4 on August 16, 2009 at 8:32 PM
Go to youtube and type in “operation coffee cup” this video/audio needs to be blasted all over the air waves non stop! it is chilling!
justonevictory on August 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Keep pushing for a total Obama meltdown….
Only the hardcore socialists will keep pushing this.
Once big business sees that the people and most of
Congress won’t stand for it then they will back away also.
Big business is corrupt also…the big difference is that you can choose
to buy from them or not (in most cases – don’t get me started on utility companies) Government corruption offers no escape. They will put you in jail
if you don’t pay taxes (health insurance premiums).
The utilities are in cohoots with the government…..so you want your healthcare to be like dealing with your power company?
izoneguy on August 16, 2009 at 8:37 PM
He has created or saved millions of new conservatives and American patriots.
And for that I thank him.
Geochelone on August 16, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Hands can’t easily be laid on the Obama man, the flim flam man.
His mind is in the Soros clouds and his talk is all make believe.
Oh lord, the man’s a fraud, he’s a flim flam man. But he’s so cagey, he’s a flim flam man.
Hands can’t easily be laid on the Obama man, the flim flam man.
He’s wrapped up in a big beautiful box making out like he’ll give out more gifts than Santa Claus.
Oh lord, the man’s a fraud, he’s a flim flam man. But he’s such a fox, he’s a flim flam man.
Everybody wants him, the Germans and the Brits, and all the Hollywood elites he does disarm.
Oh yeah, the beautiful gent, you know he’ll leave you with hardly any medical care and nary a cent.
But maybe you can pay your bills with with his charm.
Hands can’t easily be laid on the Obama man, the flim flam man.
His Marxist plans may be back up his sleeve but his talk is still make believe.
Oh lord, the man’s a fraud, he’s a flim flam man. He’s so cagey, he’s an artist.
Don’t believe he can easily be floored, he’s a flim flam man.
MB4 on August 16, 2009 at 8:44 PM
Daily Kos is freaking the fark out about this. Its the only thing they are writing about. They are actually talking smack about their Messiah! Usually they only get this excited about something Sarah Palin does.
Speedwagon82 on August 16, 2009 at 8:44 PM
Yes, he banned extraordinary rendition.
That means he’s already more successful than entire 8 years of Bush.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 8:46 PM
Maybe you haven’t thought this one all the way through. Citizens are extended certain priveledges. [Don't confuse priveledges with rights.] Implicit in the exercise of these priveledges is the truthful representation that you are qualified to enjoy them, or exercise them. A national ID card would make this easier. It would broaden the voting franchise, end voter fraud, and reduce the cost of providing services to citizens.
These are all good things.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 8:47 PM
Their shiny new toy got all stinky and stuff. Glad to hear it.
Geochelone on August 16, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Sorry you’re so hung up on this one. All the President did was suspend the practice, reserving the right to undertake the practice again “if warranted.”
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 8:49 PM
..well, they’ll have to because the Republicans are sure asleep at the switch.
VoyskaPVO on August 16, 2009 at 8:49 PM
massrighty,
You mean “privileges.”
And no the government does not grant us privileges rather we grant them the right to exist at all, and that’s a privilege we need to remove.
The Federal Government should be destroyed.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Thank you, sir. +100
d1carter on August 16, 2009 at 8:50 PM
Isn’t ACORN a non-profit co-op thingy?
Dhuka on August 16, 2009 at 8:50 PM
The Federal Government i the Evil Empire. It’s killed murdered hundreds of thousands in Iraq recently, has manless drone bombings in Pakistan right now, has an occupation in Afghanistan so it’s always up to no good.
Now after Bush trying to make the Federal government bigger for 8 years, we have Obama doing the same.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 8:51 PM
He has single handedly increased sales of guns and ammunition beyond anyone’s wildest imagination. He has also ensured profitability in the industry for many years to come.
Pelayo on August 16, 2009 at 8:52 PM
Good one! And, they’re enjoying the post-Christmas-dead-batteries-missing-accessories letdown, common to all spoiled children.
Kind of what happens when you run on “feel” instead of “think.”
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 8:52 PM
We’re dropping bombs on manless drones?
What are manless drones, anyway?
The only drones I knew about were you KOS kids.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Perhaps you meant “using unmanned aerial vehicles to drop bombs.”
Clarity is your friend.
By the way, using UAV’s on those who hate us is a good thing!
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 8:56 PM
Hey libs, Tickle Me Elmo is one sale at Amazon Hurry before they run out
Elmo can be your new cuddle toy now that Barry has sh*t the crib.
Geochelone on August 16, 2009 at 8:58 PM
The biggest problem this country has is not allowing for state nullification
State nullification has an early history in our country for example the Fugitive Slave Act of Massachusetts where it nullified Federal laws that it disapproved us. This is why the founders did not want the president having a standing army because as long as Obama-Obama has a large standing army at his disposal and his military-industrial complex, then it makes it impossible for States to nullify Supreme Court rulings and presidential orders.
I think a National I.D. card is an excuse to expand Federal control. A few people on the right liked Guiliani because he thought his I.D. card would “solve immigration” but he didn’t actually want to get rid of the illegal immigrants. He wanted to give amnesty to them, and he wanted to tighten the Federal Government’s grip on legal residents.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 9:00 PM
Hope you’re not including me in the
salutation.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 9:01 PM
Touche
Geochelone on August 16, 2009 at 9:01 PM
National I.D.= meant to control legal citizens (nothing to do with “solving” immigration problems)
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 9:01 PM
Of course NOT. I was continuing the toy thread. I know you, massrighty. You a true fighter on our side.
Geochelone on August 16, 2009 at 9:03 PM
Absolutly! I am sorry we have to leave the country to do it. Use technology instead of lives. So Spathi, what branch of service did you serve in? Americorps?
GunRunner on August 16, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Nope. Don’t just drink the kool-aid. Do the research. Look at the points I raised above. A national ID would do those things. Argument is not just the automatic nay-saying of your opponents statement.
How would having a better, more efficient ID harm me, as a law abiding citizen? Cite specific examples, with sources that are credible [hint, no wiki, or NPR.]
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 9:05 PM
We’re cool.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Because I oppose the concept of allowing the Federal Government to I.D. anyone just as I oppose the Social Security administration, which has already gone too far. Identification should be left to the States. Besides what research do you want me to do? It would help the Federal Government to do what?
Since I can’t think of a single piece of the Federal Government worth keeping, why would I want it to somehow function better?
p.s.- I don’t completely trust those National Review hit pieces on Bill Ayers for the mere fact that Buckley allowed way to much CIA influence on that site.
Buckley did more to ridicule and destroy the Libertarian movement in this country than any other person. His entire site has become a communist-propaganda website.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 9:07 PM
So Spathi, National I.D. is bad but all your personal medical records, including you dna profile and SSN on a “Electronic record is good?
GunRunner on August 16, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Targeting software is improving daily. So, in the future…
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 9:07 PM
I have no idea where this is going to lead. For all I know, they’ll pass the damn public option in conference. But today is a good day.
I took a short stroll through the DU, and it was beautiful. Nothing quite like the sight of the Left eating its own, especially when its own is the south Side leader of the Gangster Disciples.
JohnGalt23 on August 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Ron Paul was the only candidate who wanted to do away with the IRS. Besides if he couldn’t get the votes, Ron Paul is was only candidate who believed in a TRUE RIGHT of the states to bear any and all arms.
If the militias wanted to build nuclear weapons to keep the IRS off their lawns, then that would be OK.
Who would want to vote against that?
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Hell no
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 9:10 PM
JohnGalt23.
Agreed, tonight is a good night.
Buy you a Beer…
GunRunner on August 16, 2009 at 9:10 PM
These Insurance Cooperatives are just as incrementalist as the Public Option ever was. The most proper analogy wouldn’t be the Post Office but Fannie Mae, and we’ve all seen how THAT turned out.
And now there seems to be some Republican senators circulating a victory screed after this round of “concessions”.
Don’t buy it. Keep the pressure up and email your representatives that we need them to kill this bill so Obama to FULFILL HIS CAMPAIGN PROMISE and to put the negotiations with healthcare, insurance and lawmakers __ON CSPAN__ before we accept any transformational reform.
Khorum on August 16, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Conservatives should be praying for a co-op. Its a diluted version of the public plan wont be difficult to overturn in 2010 or 2012.
I say this because i along with millions of people will not vote for Obama if we don’t see a strong government run public option is this HRC.
Afrolib on August 16, 2009 at 9:20 PM
More on Nicholas E. Smith…..Apparently he likes to post on HuffPo (who would have thought?).
Here’s one of his posts from today.
They are not done.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 16, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Even better, contact Sarah Palin and get her to put out another facebook post that shuts down ANY collaboration with the left based on “insurance cooperatives”.
Khorum on August 16, 2009 at 9:21 PM
AP “FACT CHECK” Death Panels not in Bill”
The AP sucks and are liars. They put this ‘Fact Check’ stuff right above Obama in retreat article Sunday.
Hmmmm, if it’ not in the bill then why did the Senate Finance Committee just was it Friday…. take it out? How could they take something out that wasn’t in there.
I DON’T BELIEVE THE ADMINISTRATION IS TELLING THE TRUTH about abandoning the public option. Like one poster said they are just doing a head fake.
KEEP FIGHTING, they will try incrementalism instead.
They won’t SOMETHING for Obama to sign after all this crap and political capital he spent. But they are going to be right back at it on Cap & Trade. The great thing now is that he’s pretty much crippled himself that people don’t believe him now.
Keep talking Barry…..scripted town halls every day in August over this.
PappyD61 on August 16, 2009 at 9:22 PM
So, I asked you to do this:
And you answered in this way.
In no way is your answer responsive to my question.
I invited you to go back to my previous post (not a significant task) and research the statements that I had made in support of a national ID card.
The middle of your response indicates that you possibly consider yourself a libertarian. I know some very thoughtful libertarians, who have taken the time to do some reading, and can defend their position with logic.
Your writing does not show the promise of this kind of intellect. You just veer off into some kind of unsupported diatribe against NRO, for “hit pieces on Bill Ayers.”
You were on a thread recently lying about Bill Ayers admitted criminality. You got spanked. Now you’re here, recycling the lies.
You’ve brought a picture of a knife to a gunfight.
Try harder.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Here’s an idea…instead of trying to do everything at once, how about we first try TORT REFORM! Put the ambulance chasing lawyers out of business first. Then let’s see if we can get private insurance to be more competitive by eliminating the regulations they live under. Let’s see how much money these steps save and how many more people can get private insurance at a reasonable price. And let’s stop counting illegals among the uninsured. That would reduce the so-called crisis by a third.
MADgirl91 on August 16, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaacist.
/sarc
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 16, 2009 at 9:29 PM
A huge thank you to all Americans who went to town halls across this country and got loud and got in their face. THANK YOU! Please stay in their face. DO NOT give them time to regroup. Destroy them while they are in retreat! I have not been this happy in quite a while.
jwp1964 on August 16, 2009 at 9:30 PM
massrighty,
I thought you were the one talking about Bill Ayers with me before. My point was that he was a leader in the anti-conscription movement during the Vietnam occupation, and National Review was a statist pro-CIA website that runs hit pieces on them.
When I see something from a more neutral website that isn’t pushing communism, then I might consider some of it to be more reputable.
As for National I.D. cards, what are you talking about? Libertarians oppose the existence of the Federal Government and Federal power.
Why would we want the politicians to have more control over people?
I don’t think the Libertarian Party has EVER supported a National I.D. card as part of their platform.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Really? What did I lie about?
He was never charged with anything. Remember when Scott Ritter was charged with all sorts of bogus stuff because he said there were no weapons in Iraq in the lead up to the Shock N’ Awe bombings?
My guess is it may be the same thing because Ayers was in an anti-government movement.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Among my first thoughts at this news. ACORN will be the biggest “insurance co-op” out there by the time this thing is through. Keep the fight on.
Rational Thought on August 16, 2009 at 9:33 PM
This isn’t about Obama. You’re free to admire and respect the man, of course, but that’s the central disconnect liberals have had during this whole August Uprising: Liberals are convinced this is a reaction against Obama instead of his policies and philosophy.
Conservatives reject the implacable expansion of government during a period of tremendous economic distress. We see the petty opportunism that went into the Porkulus. We saw the brazen middle-of-the-night sleight-of-hand that went into Cap and Trade. And now we see Obama trying to pull yet another fast one and slamming down a 1,000-page regulatory regime on the most personal decisions a human being can make.
I don’t care which liberal president it is, nor how beneficial any form of compromise would be to a Republican campaign in 2010 or 2012, I want it stopped. We need this bill killed.
We need HR3200 killed if only so the president YOU voted for can fulfill his campaign promise of holding healthcare negotiations on CSPAN, instead of the shady cloak-and-dagger work and 3AM amendments that we’ve all come to expect from “the most transparent administration ever”.
Khorum on August 16, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Dude, we tried that. It’s called The Articles of Confederation. Didn’t work. Then, they did this thing, called the Constitutional Convention and created a constitution. Whether the Federal Government violates the law daily or merely every other day, the Federal structure is legitimate. Just not the current junta of kleptocrats.
mabryb1 on August 16, 2009 at 9:35 PM
OK, as Drudge is fronting right now, all the dems are starting this “Oh, gee, no public option is going to be really, really difficult. I don’t know if I could vote for that. This is going to be such a hard compromise for us to make” and then, of course, they’ll vote for the co-ops because IT’S THE SAME GODDAMN THING UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME, but the media will spin and spin about what a hard, bipartisan, compromising vote they had to take and if the bad, bad Republicans don’t vote for it, too, well they’re just bad people. I’m worried. This is shaping up to be the best political head fake in history. The GOP had BETTER be on top of THIS by 5 a.m. tomorrow talking about what a pile of crap this is. How about a “Barack Obama thinks the American people are stupid” campaign?
Rational Thought on August 16, 2009 at 9:40 PM
mabryb1,
The Articles of the Confederation worked great.
However, even the U.S. Constitution was meant to restrain the government, and it has failed for the most part.
Spathi on August 16, 2009 at 9:43 PM
Well you may be getting your wish according to Sebelius. Get ready for the libs to join you all with the King Hussein, Messiah, Ogabe name calling. Obama has been a huge disappointment thus far and will definitely cement that sentiment if he signs any bill without a strong government run public option.
Afrolib on August 16, 2009 at 9:47 PM
You’ll still vote for him, and Obama knows it. You want socialized medicine, for God’s sake. Who ya gonna vote for instead, the Republican? Or are you going to stay home? Well, a whole lot of voters who came out to vote for “the Messiah” because it was so darn exciting are going to stay home in 2012, so you’ll have company. His election was a once-in-a-lifetime perfect storm of political and economic events. He’s been on borrowed time since he took the oath of office. He doesn’t care what you think. Man, I’m sorry to tell ya but to Obama, all you bright-eyed fans are rubes. He’s going to do what’s good for his one and only constituency: Barack.
Rational Thought on August 16, 2009 at 9:49 PM
The Constitution didn’t fail. It’s a document, based on sound principles. The laws in the Constitution have not led to federal tyranny. The violation of those laws, namely the 9th and 10th Amendments, and several 20th century Chief Justices usurpation of lawmaking power, are what failed. Blame the men, not the ideas.
mabryb1 on August 16, 2009 at 9:49 PM
Hey great news! Maybe now that’s over, someone can look into Conrad’s Countrywide sweetheart deal.
stuartm650 on August 16, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Referring to an earlier post of mine, about another post you had made about Bill Ayers, you ask;
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 9:53 PM
I just snatched this from daily kos. Theres a requium going on over there bawahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
sonnyspats1 on August 16, 2009 at 9:53 PM
This one is even better hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!1
sonnyspats1 on August 16, 2009 at 9:55 PM
Re-posting, due to bad formatting:
Referring to an earlier post of mine, about another post you had made about Bill Ayers, you ask;
Yes, he was; a few minutes on Google will set you right. Charges were dismissed due to prosecutorial mis-conduct. (I’m typing the big words here slowly, so you can keep up.)
Ayers planned bombings in which people died.
Critical thinking is a skill; it’s mastery requires effort, and practice.
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 9:53 PM
massrighty on August 16, 2009 at 9:56 PM
If they cut all of the crap from HR3200, it would be shorter than this posting.
darwin-t on August 16, 2009 at 9:56 PM
Dude, Ayers and his wife are terrorists. Here’s a primer:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODk2ZTRmZDIwNWEzOWE2MDNhMTQ0ZWYwYmRiNWZmNDM=
Rational Thought on August 16, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 16, 2009 at 9:29 PM
I know, I know, any ideas that aren’t what Obama wants are racist.
MADgirl91 on August 16, 2009 at 10:01 PM
Drive a stake through its’ heart and put a silver bullet there too.
Herb on August 16, 2009 at 10:02 PM
For those of your discussing Ayers, check into the bombing of a police station in San Francisco in 1970 in which one officer was killed and others wounded.
MADgirl91 on August 16, 2009 at 10:05 PM
Don’t forget the garlic.
highhopes on August 16, 2009 at 10:07 PM
1. Yes he was charged. You are wrong
2. No he was not convicted
3. Strangely the records have been sealed
4. He has not admitted or denied wrong doing
5. The handling of his case was awfully strange
It is likely that no one we know would be treated as well as he was. You should be asking more questions.
-When you can link the CHARGE to his standing up regarding his beliefs about Iraq let me know.
CWforFreedom on August 16, 2009 at 10:11 PM
Do not trust these bastards with anything. They are trying to bamboozle us. Also Geraldo Rivera is an idiot!
MCGIRV on August 16, 2009 at 10:12 PM
In addition to the co-op/union problem mentioned above this bill has a 10 BILLION dollar payoff for the unions.
SEE-
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/08/14/union-pensions-getting-big-payoff-from-obamacare/
4of8 on August 16, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Agree.
Connie on August 16, 2009 at 10:18 PM
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