Demagogue-in-chief: Support amnesty for illegals or you’re a demagogue
posted at 6:04 pm on August 14, 2009 by Allahpundit
A sneak peek at what’s to come if The One’s serious about pushing immigration reform before the midterms. If you think the health-care rhetoric is poisonous, wait until the left has to deal with an issue that’s of special concern to minorities while they’re staring down the barrel of a potential GOP takeover of the House. The race-baiting and demonization of amnesty opponents will be like nothing the country’s seen for decades. All Obama’s doing here is sending a shot across the bow (while addressing a Mexican audience, natch).
Suddenly, even Peggy Noonan can’t shake the feeling that, when you come right down to it, Barry O’s kind of a divisive figure.
Looking back, a key domestic moment in this presidency occurred only eight days after his inauguration, when Mr. Obama won House passage of his stimulus bill. It was a bad bill—off point, porky and philosophically incoherent. He won 244-188, a rousing victory for a new president. But he won without a single Republican vote. That was the moment the new division took hold. The Democrats of the House pushed it through, and not one Republican, even those from swing districts, even those eager to work with the administration, could support it.
This, of course, was politics as usual. But in 2008 people voted against politics as usual.
It was a real lost opportunity. It marked the moment congressional Republicans felt free to be in full opposition. It gave congressional Democrats the impression that they were in full control, that no one could stop their train. And it was the moment the president, looking at the lay of the land, seemed to reveal he would not govern in a vaguely center-left way, as a unifying figure even if a beset one being beaten ’round the head by the left, but in a left way, without the modifying “center.” Or at least as one who happily cedes to the left in Congress each day.
Things got all too vividly divided. It was a harbinger of the health care debate.
And many other debates to come, no doubt. Fun fact: Per the latest Rasmussen, 33 percent think Obama’s governing as the post-partisan hero he promised us he’d be during the campaign. Percentage who think he’s governing as a partisan liberal Democrat: A cool 51. Click the image to watch.
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Obama’s out there telling everybody that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd from the clean end, and not soil your fingers!
Cybergeezer on August 14, 2009 at 6:47 PM
I see a pattern forming….domestic dissenters = disruptors, while foreign dissenters = distractors…….when will Pelosi declare the Hondurans are being un-American?
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 6:48 PM
Bob, those are beautiful thoughts and I hope you’re right!
califcon on August 14, 2009 at 6:48 PM
I admire your sunny optimism.
But I kinda prefer the seccesion/civil war scenario, myself. With incumbents enjoying a 94% re-election rate and the GOP in disarray, I’ll be thrilled if we take the House by a toenail.
Remember, as much as people might despise the Dems, they certainly have no love for the GOP.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 6:49 PM
Spathi on August 14, 2009 at 6:45 PM
To borrow a phrase from Ron White, next time you have a thought…let it go.
Disturb the Universe on August 14, 2009 at 6:50 PM
I thought George Bush’s push for amnesty in 2006 was the dumbest political move of the decade. But firing up the amnesty band wagon at a time of record breaking unemployment would be orders of magnitude dumber.
do it, dummy, do it!
james23 on August 14, 2009 at 6:51 PM
I have an immigration reform idea…make it smarter for illegals to leave than to stay.
CWforFreedom on August 14, 2009 at 6:51 PM
It’s probably been said upthread by people more eloquent than I am, but:
We need to “keep our eye on the meatball“, as the pilots say. This is classic misdirection, obviously meant to distract us from Obamacare. Don’t fall for it!
Mary in LA on August 14, 2009 at 6:52 PM
yep.
homesickamerican on August 14, 2009 at 6:52 PM
Holy cow. I think I just wet myself with glee.
I hope you’re right, but . . .
tsj017 on August 14, 2009 at 6:52 PM
Afrolib on August 14, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Afrolube? What’s Afrolube? Is that like Gunslik? You know, for greasin’ up gun actions.
Doorgunner on August 14, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Naw! It’s like Gunslick, only for switchblades!
Cybergeezer on August 14, 2009 at 6:53 PM
“some men just want to watch the world burn”…
Sure, he likes the power….. but I think he really does want to destroy the world rather than to merely remake it into a marxist paradise.
LegendHasIt on August 14, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Best Post evah!
I have been thinking along the same lines since last spring. But I don’t think that The One wants to destroy the whole planet. Look at how he understands history. The US is responsible for most of the world’s problems. The rich, white part in particular. He will probably be happy destroying that — piece by piece and it is completely congruent with the goals of the far left.
IlikedAUH2O on August 14, 2009 at 6:53 PM
Axelrod to Rahm….sometime in June 2012….referring to the “silent majority”…..
“I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant, and filled him with a terrible resolve….”
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Argh
Not ta get totally off topic, but to engage in a lil’ bit of piratical parley
Me hearty, AP, I cannot post a comment up thar in the headlines
I’d be fore’er obliged to ya
I’ll pay ya with me gold for access to the Headline Sea, and to dock in her port, yar
A_Pirates_Tooth on August 14, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Ok, ok any rich people in the US will draw his fire. But he seemed to have no problem with Reverend Wright’s $10 million home.
IlikedAUH2O on August 14, 2009 at 6:56 PM
I am so friggen sick of obummer!
Good God, unless we speak as he wants us to we are demagogues, if we dont speak like nazi palosi wants us to we are unamerican. I can fully 100 % agree with the anger that is seen at the town hall meetings.
I have looked here for my senator to have one, not on the agenda.
ColdWarrior57 on August 14, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Arrgh…
Point yer rusty mouse pointer at the comment number, not the headline; there be posts there….
Landlubbers…..
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 6:57 PM
will you guys please stop reminding me of all the reasons I despised George Bush?
Compassionate Conservatism
Signing McCain/Feingold when he knew it was un-constituional
Medicare Part III
No Child Left Behind
Massive spending
Invading Iraq instead of Iran
“Comprehensive immigration reform”.
Declaring that Iran would never be permitted to develop nuclear weapons and then….clearing more brush at his ranch.
Sitting idly by while Iran supplied IED’s to kill American soldiers.
Colin Powell
Condoleeza Useless Rice
Harriet Miers
Alberto Gonzalez
Hugging Ted Kennedy
Ramos and Compean
Christ…if I remember any more, I’ll be chanting, “8 years of failed policies!!”.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM
yar
i ain’t able to leave comments up thar!
she reads:
“not allowed to leave comments”
A_Pirates_Tooth on August 14, 2009 at 6:59 PM
try logging in again. happens to me sometimes, too.
homesickamerican on August 14, 2009 at 7:00 PM
That’s b/c the agenda is secret. You, me, and everyone else here are in it, too. As was said in Terminator, we are targeted for termination.
Liam on August 14, 2009 at 7:00 PM
ROFL….”My health care, stimulus and cap-and-trade ideas were such a smash, it’s time for an encore!”
ddrintn on August 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM
That’s b/c the agenda is secret. You, me, and everyone else here are on it, too. As was said in Terminator, we are targeted for termination.
Liam on August 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM
I call your wager with Gore, and raise you 1 Kerry.
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Did Spathi make it over here yet? Or should I suggest she move over from the ‘Stupid Critics go after Palin…’ thread ;-P
Ozprey on August 14, 2009 at 7:02 PM
That’s true for me. I’ve never met a politician I liked. Just politicians who are less odious than others.
jaime on August 14, 2009 at 7:02 PM
Sounds great to me.
The only thing that would make it better is if Bam-Bam is finally caught up in all of the shady deals he’s made over the years, and he’s dragged out onto the South Lawn, handcuffed and in his underpants.
jana on August 14, 2009 at 7:02 PM
Yeah, but this guy was supposed to be on our side.
I knew, I knew…from the moment that I heard “compassionate conservatism” (a Bob Frum phrase, by the way), that we were in for more of his daddy.
I just didn’t realize how totally screwed we were gonna be.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:04 PM
We shall overcome….
The blacks will be called racist because they do not favor amnesty.
The whites will be called racist because they do not favor amnesty.
Where’s Abraham Lincoln when we need him?
SalHansen on August 14, 2009 at 7:05 PM
I actually have met four politicians I genuinely liked:
Pat Toomey
Fred Thompson
Rudy Giuliani
Michele Bachmann
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Dead.
With a bullet in the back of his murdering head.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:06 PM
heh, heh, heh
SalHansen on August 14, 2009 at 7:07 PM
“I wish he got some real questions…like why are the unions exempt?? This is a big question if anyone goes to a meeting.
tessa on August 14, 2009 at 6:40 PM” The republicans should make a big stink about this!If the public knew this,their will be even more hell-raising.
theTarCzar on August 14, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Lincoln was a murderer?
Liam on August 14, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Correction, I’ve met five:
Add Margaret Thatcher to the list.
I wish I’d met Ronald Reagan in person, but that was not to be.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:08 PM
didn’t you hear? he’s been reincarnated, and his middle name is hussein.
homesickamerican on August 14, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Yeah. He unconstitutionally raised an army against southerners who wanted nothing more than to disassociate themselves from the Union.
The blood of 500,000 dead is on his hands.
May he burn in hell.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:10 PM
No…I’m not talking about the Lincolns from the projects on southside of Chicago.
I meant the other Lincoln. You know, the one in all the History books.
SalHansen on August 14, 2009 at 7:11 PM
The republicans should make a big stink about this!If the public knew this,their will be even more hell-raising.(ok figured out the quote thing!)
theTarCzar on August 14, 2009 at 7:11 PM
With all the praise The Toothpick gets, it must seem like an alternate reality to people when they learn what Lincoln actually supported and did not want to support.
The first Revelation is always the Emancipation Proclomation:
Conventional Wisdom = Lincoln freed the slaves
Full Truth = Lincoln freed the slaves in those states that seceded and who did not return to the Union within a specified period of time. Did not inlcude slaves in states still in the Union.
There’s lots more that might give folks a second look at why this guy has the largest Memorial in DC.
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 7:12 PM
Post-Partisan? Just remember, I WON.
GarandFan on August 14, 2009 at 7:13 PM
Just forget about that firing on Fort Sumter stuff. (Which every other nation would consider AN ACT OF WAR).
GarandFan on August 14, 2009 at 7:14 PM
Come on now. I’m sure Viny’s mom is not a wh*re. She was probably just one of those misguided teenage hippies who thought it would be fun to experiment with some Third World low-life Commies. You know, like Barry’s mommy did.
AZCoyote on August 14, 2009 at 7:14 PM
History, it is said, is written by the victors. Which is why we were taught to revere Lincoln.
He destroyed the Federal system, raised an illegal army, imprisoned thousands of political prisoners (including a couple of Congressment, closed hundreds of newspapers that disagreed with him.
And waged total war against a civilian populace.
Read “The Real Lincoln”, by Thomas DiLorenzo.
Lincoln was a murdering tyrant…and very similar to Ogabe.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:15 PM
If one is paid at the lower part of the pay scale you should be demanding that illegals be sent home. They are lowering wages .
CWforFreedom on August 14, 2009 at 7:16 PM
I have a series of questions on this issue for Mr. Obama and those who give him support, and if they would but engage me on them I might become a proponent of what they propose. Who knows? My pen might even become available and of some use to their cause.
And so, my first question, asked in genuine sincerity, is this: given that I might not support what the Chief Executive wishes, why would I be a demagogue?
Horatius on August 14, 2009 at 7:16 PM
The actual figure is 600,000, nine of which are ancestors of mine who died in Andersonville Prison saving the Union and freeing slaves. No, I don’t blame Capt. Wirtz for that, either.
We can go on about the War of Northern Aggression, but who shot first? Fort Sumpter was a US base, wasn’t it? Shoot at the United States and you got a war on your hands. Unless Obama, Gore, or some other Dem lib is in the White House, that is.
Liam on August 14, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Not to mention that he promised to ship all the blacks back to Africa.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:17 PM
Amnesty?
I guess this means Obama won’t be getting his face on Mt. Rushmore or on any dollar bills then…
Oh wait! Do they make a trillion dollar bill?
SalHansen on August 14, 2009 at 7:17 PM
fun fact about the lincoln memorial: the front of the chair that abe is sitting on is adorned with the bundles of sticks known in italian as “fasci”, which are the original symbols of fascism as practiced by mussolini.
read into it what you will…
homesickamerican on August 14, 2009 at 7:18 PM
With you all the way. Bet whatever you can on the Vegas line.
John the Libertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:20 PM
As far as the people of SC were concerned, the Federal government had no constitutional sanction for siting a fortress that would close off one of the critical ports of a sovereign state.
The States were sovereign under the Constitution. The Federal government was a mere instrumentality.
Read the Federalist Papers sometime, pal.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:20 PM
Whatever you might think about Lincoln, to make any comparisons with The Precedent is just way off the mark. There is nothing similar between the two, with the exception that Lincoln fought to keep the Union together (un-Constitutional as it was, it is still a question of whether thought it was worthwhile) while The Precedent wants nothing other than to bring pain to Americans and reduce this nation to third world status, if he is able. If anything, The Precedent is exactly the opposite of Lincoln, which will be seen when he might force the exact secession and disintegration fo the Union that Lincoln fought against. In intellectual terms, Lincoln and The Precedent are also polar opposites, with one being brilliant and the other a borderline moron.
progressoverpeace on August 14, 2009 at 7:20 PM
I wonder if he knows what the definition of ‘demagogue’ is:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/demagogues
Sounds more like Obama more than anyone else.
Patriot Vet on August 14, 2009 at 7:20 PM
The illegals are already written into the healthcare bill.
He’s gotta make Sotomayor proud, don’t ya know…
SalHansen on August 14, 2009 at 7:20 PM
And destroyed the 10th Amendment.
John the Libertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Supreme Court Rules Mt. Rushmore in violation of EEOC rules
Orders Monument Closed Until All Minorities Represented
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 7:22 PM
Then why did Ogabe come right out of the box after the election, trying to assume Lincoln’s mantle?
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:22 PM
Actually, the “fasci” (Latin) are a bundle of sticks symbolizing the authority of the Roman Consul during the era of the Roman Republic. Mussolini just stole that idea.
atheling on August 14, 2009 at 7:23 PM
Sure, as people they may be OK, but as politicians they are not. They just happen to be the best ones around.
By definition, politicians control me in various ways with the power of government. Anyone who can compel me by force against my will is not to be trusted.
jaime on August 14, 2009 at 7:23 PM
thanks! i wonder which “origin” the designers of the memorial had in mind…
homesickamerican on August 14, 2009 at 7:24 PM
Obama just realizes he needs a lot of new voters before 2012.
Because the old ones have ALREADY caught on to his fatuous B.S. idiocy.
Legalize, registerize, voterize!
The Dems next mantra.
profitsbeard on August 14, 2009 at 7:24 PM
I’m inclined to think it’s in reference to the Roman Republic, as the architecture of Capitol Mall is Neo Classical.
atheling on August 14, 2009 at 7:25 PM
It’s working gtl, do you think 2 years ago you’d have had anybody protesting the donkeys in SF let alone a couple of hundred? It’s still a long time before 2010, and then we have to keep that energy into 2012.
Fighton03 on August 14, 2009 at 7:26 PM
I’ve seen this phrasing before. Moby? Sarcasm? Troll?
Count to 10 on August 14, 2009 at 7:27 PM
Nice to hear from someone else who understands the Constitution.
Lincoln had absolutely no constituional authority for what he did. He just wrapped himself in the emotional mantle of “the Union” and freedom for the slaves. In that way, he was the prototype for every statist to follow.
Burn in hell, Abraham.
If there was any truth and justice in this land, that monument in DC should be to John Wilkes Booth.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:27 PM
I’m afraid, if this nonsense keeps up, what you’re more likely to see is most, if not all, incumbents being thrown out, regardless of party, and replaced by who-knows-what.
It might be a good idea for whoever wants to be re-elected to somehow divorce themselves, loudly and publicly, from the insanity — and that doesn’t include the idiots using the recess to traipse around the globe on our dime, while their constituents wonder how they’ll pay next month’s mortgage.
Nichevo on August 14, 2009 at 7:28 PM
To try and insinuate himself into the legend of Lincoln without having to do anything. He tried the same crap with FDR and everyone else in history he could get his paws on. Heck, he even let his supporters play him up as the messiah, but I don’t think you would really find any parallels between the Chicago moron and Jesus.
What’s funny is that B Hussein is doing exactly what Mohammed did when he first thought up his moronic ideology. Mo needed some quick legitimacy and historical character, so he just stole the Old and New testaments, plagiarized some of them, called the original writers liars and off he went. B Hussein followed that exact same playbook – he just went and tried to steal legitimacy from anyone he could, even though he had no talents or skills or brain, himself. Mohammed would be very prouod of B Hussein.
progressoverpeace on August 14, 2009 at 7:29 PM
If you don’t agree with amnesty you will be instantly labeled a raaaaaacist!
Does this mean Hot Air will be in Spanish?
SalHansen on August 14, 2009 at 7:29 PM
I believe it’s wheat; which a long time ago, in a country far, far away was a symbol of power and opulence (which adds up to “strength”)
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 7:29 PM
“rifle behind every blade of grass.”
Count to 10 on August 14, 2009 at 7:30 PM
Lighten up! I read parts of the Papers and, for the most part, I’m on your side.
For right or wrong, Sumpter was a US installation and it was fired on. Then we had a civil war because of that first action. That’s just the history and nothing can be done about it.
I disagree Lincoln was a murderer. In the end, 600,000 Americans died because of that war. It never should have happened. Oh, sure–the South could have ended slavery or the North could have embraced that ‘wretched institution’ as many Framers called slavery when the Federalist Papers were being written. But, really, the Civil War was pretty much inevitable at the time.
Like you, I favor the idea of states’ rights. And we’re about to see how far that goes for the second time in our Nation’s history. I hope we have the sense to not kill so many of each other this time around.
Liam on August 14, 2009 at 7:30 PM
Another Dixie-Rises-Eternal flamewar?
Geez I dunno what to do with you guys,
maybe haul down our flag, declare myself a soveriegn power, buy arms from Europe and burn down your neighborhoods?
seems fair…
Chris_Balsz on August 14, 2009 at 7:31 PM
You have to actually work for your money to get his attention.
Count to 10 on August 14, 2009 at 7:32 PM
I just looked at photos of the Memorial. It’s not wheat; it’s bundled sticks or “fagots”, which is “fasci” in Latin.
atheling on August 14, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Okay, that’s taking it too far.
Count to 10 on August 14, 2009 at 7:36 PM
I miss Reagan. You can keep Dumbya and Poppy.
SagebrushPuppet on August 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Is what it is.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Re: Lincoln Memorial from Wiki, for what it’s worth:
atheling on August 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Not from me. I think the Civil War, while terrible in it’s conduct, was actually a good thing for the US. It established, in the minds of the citizenry and leaders to come, the idea that the Union would remain, by force if necessary. I think by and large people grew, as we were born to it, to accept and be comfortable with the knowledge that we are one country. In other words, we (they) felt safe from the prospect of the Union dissolving.
We got it out of our system…so to speak.
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Perhaps, but for the fact that the MEXICANS truly believe that we stole this land from them. Didn’t you hear, the US is the meanest country EVER!!!! Mexico would KICK ARSE if it weren’t for the selfish US./sarc
pilartx on August 14, 2009 at 7:39 PM
And there we have it….Lincoln sits on chair made of feces.
BobMbx on August 14, 2009 at 7:40 PM
How are those delivered? Fax? E-mail? Itunes?
SagebrushPuppet on August 14, 2009 at 7:40 PM
Um, fellas? Keep your eye on the meatball!
By trotting this amnesty stuff out right now, “Lincoln 2.0″ (he wishes) is trying to distract and divide us, to cause a civil war on the conservative side. We mustn’t fall for it. The War Between the States is over, but the war to save the country is on now.
Just my 0.02…
Mary in LA on August 14, 2009 at 7:41 PM
Agreed. Way over the top.
atheling on August 14, 2009 at 7:41 PM
Funny how any COUNTY that didn’t want to follow the statehouse out of the union was brought back into the fold through Midnight Lynch and Arson, ain’t it? Secession is a great thing, a holy thing, but maintaining your individual loyalty to a national government in time of secession is just damn’ MUTINY.
Chris_Balsz on August 14, 2009 at 7:43 PM
I know, sort of. Heavy stuff doesn’t HAVE to happen, but I fear it might come down to it. I think it depends on how hard the libs are willing to fight people like you and me. Personally, I don’t think they have the brass, balls, or wherewithall to sustain against us. Hell, most libs won’t join the Army if only to defend other libs.
Seems like we’re on the winning team.
Liam on August 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM
It it? Really?
Imagine this. Suppose Ogabe…or any other President…seized upon a provocative action by one of the States to declare war against that State and any other State which declared itself to be in sympathy.
Let’s imagine he raised an army, without Congressional sanction.
Let’s imagine he imprisoned Congressmen who spoke out against his actions.
Let’s imagine he closed down hundreds of thousands of newspapers, broadcast channels, radio stations and blog sites which opposed his actions.
Let’s imagine that he instructed his military commanders to wage total war against American civilian populations.
Let’s imagine that 5,000,000 Americans died because he decided that his view was more important than the Constitution.
Would you want to build a monument to that guy?
Or to the freedom-fighter who ended his life?
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:45 PM
they are definitely the “fasci”. a bunch of sources will confirm that.
but again, the interpretation of them is up to us.
homesickamerican on August 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM
“Obama” is the Austrian word for “Joker.”
SagebrushPuppet on August 14, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Well, if raising an unconstituional army against the States, imprisoning dissenting Congressmen and newspaper editors and waging total war on civilian populations isn’t Fascism, I don’t know how other to characterize it.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Aren’t you kind of forgetting that the civil war started before Lincoln took office?
Count to 10 on August 14, 2009 at 7:55 PM
Well, they are welcome to try. Maybe it’s a massive “inside” job.
Cindy Munford on August 14, 2009 at 7:57 PM
They are also on the wall behind the rostrum of the House, and are a symbol of law-abiding Republicanism. The axe was the consul’s to use if death had to be prescribed, the rods were the sticks his lictors (assistants) could use to scourge people with.
I am afraid I have to defend Mr. Lincoln here, though he will probably still stand foremost in the hearts of the American people if I do not. I have felt for some time that the most critical battle of the Civil War, the turning point, was not Antietam, not Gettysburg, not Vicksburg, but the paralysis of the Buchanan administration over Fort Sumter followed by the determination of the Lincoln one. This is not to mean there may not have been a war eventually if this issue had been resolved, for there probably would have been. But it might have been more of a border skirmish type of war, rather than the full war of reconquest the North undertook. If Lincoln did not know that his refusal to compromise would bring about a war, he should have.
Time does not permit me to go into much detail on my thesis, but I support Lincoln on his move, even though I share the concern of others that perhaps states should be allowed to seperate peacefully.
On the other hand, the South did not mind playing hardball for the forty years before the war, so I can certainly understand the furor in the North–they had finally won an election, and the South decided that instead of losing gracefully and then seeing what tyranny would occur that they would upstakes. They ignored Jefferson’s injunction that evils should be suffered, while they are sufferable, rather than change governments for light and transient causes. And of course, in considering whether the North was engaging in tyranny or “abuses and usurpations”, I am fond of Burke’s quote about hearing the loudest yelps of liberty from drivers of negro slaves. Even so with the South of 1860.
I can imagine nothing more infuriating to the North than when the South seceded, for had one of the South’s men won, the South surely would have continued to demand Northerners obey every law with zeal, especially regarding slavery (i.e., Fugitive Slave Law).
In modern parlance, the Southerners were a bunch of check-valves, where the flow only went one-way. Northerners went to war because the South had played the game of “elections have consequences” in a fairly blunt fashion for a long time, and then decided to change the rules when they lost. It’s like playing poker–if you decide to ante up, one is expected to pay up if one loses. The North entered into an election with every willingness to abide by the result, and the South did not.
The South then lost all moral claims to legitimacy when it fired on Sumter. This is because Sumter had been paid for by monies from peoples of all the states, and was the common property of them all. Yes, Lincoln would probably not have negotiated for the division of Federal property, but this is irrelevant. The South still fired first, and the North was emotionally ready for a fight, probably had been for many years, and only needed an excuse to have one. And so the war came.
Naturally, beyond constitutional and legal questions of the “legality” of secession, Sherman was right about the South–no people ever went to war for a worse cause. As Lincoln said, secession is a moral right, not a legal one, and the South did not have the right on its side, but only might–and not enough of that.
Horatius on August 14, 2009 at 7:57 PM
Huh? Are you talking about Bloody Kansas?
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM
That man has a problem. He’s a serial apologizer.
Cindy Munford on August 14, 2009 at 7:59 PM
Depends. If the “provocative action” were to seize the USS Nimitz and all aboard and all its arms, and fly a state flag, I’d be with him on that one.
Hold it, by your own theory, who the hell is a mere President to regulate the muster of a state militia? If the soveriegn People, resident in Illinois, acting through their republic, wanna wreck Texas for the beef, who is the President to forbid it?
That’s right, he did that…His statue ain’t big enough.
Something visible from the Moon. Something ON the moon.
Lincoln didn’t, he just wrecked stuff. Hell, if he’d have taken the leash off Sherman and done Dixie like we did the Lakotah, Nez Pearce and the Navajo, we wouldn’t be having this argument.
Where in the Constitution does it mention nationalizing–er, liberating–federal arsenals?
Chris_Balsz on August 14, 2009 at 8:00 PM
When is he going to apologize to real Americans?
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 8:01 PM
I decided to just automatically despise all politicians. I’ve found this to be a great time saver.
SagebrushPuppet on August 14, 2009 at 8:01 PM
Lincoln closed down hundred of opposition newspapers, imprisoned editors.
I merely scaled the numbers up to current population.
You mean to tell me you wouldn’t take up arms if Ogabe shut down HotAir, Drudge, Fox News, Rush, et. al?
I sure as hell would.
guntotinglibertarian on August 14, 2009 at 8:03 PM
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