Oh my: New Gallup poll shows town hall protests winning over independents?
posted at 6:49 pm on August 12, 2009 by Allahpundit
Either indies have suddenly developed a taste for Nazi mobs of political terrorists or the Democrats’ message war on ObamaCare opponents is a rather epic fail.
Given the left’s monopoly on wisdom and virtue, I must reluctantly conclude it’s the former. When did independents start hating America?
In a survey of 1,000 adults taken Tuesday, 34% say the sometimes heated protests at sessions held by members of Congress have made them more sympathetic to the protesters’ views; 21% say they are less sympathetic.
Independents by 2-1, 35%-16%, say they are more sympathetic to the protesters now.
The findings are bad news for President Obama and Democratic congressional leaders, who have scrambled to respond to town halls marked by aggressive questions and noisy demonstrations by those opposed to plans to overhaul the health care system…
There’s some tolerance for noisy disputes at town hall meetings. By 51%-41%, those surveyed say individuals making “angry attacks” on a health care bill reflected “democracy in action” rather than “abuse of democracy.” However, by 59%-33% they say “shouting down supporters” of a health care bill was an abuse of democracy.
Karl wrote a post about this earlier, before the poll came out, flagging Dick Armey’s assessment that the protesters themselves might be better understood as Perot-style populists than traditional Republican conservatives. If that’s true, then it’s no surprise that they’re appealing to indies: They’re sort of indie themselves. Or, more likely, maybe it has less to do with the protesters than who it is they’re protesting. The more people hear about Congress rushing the bill through without having read it, the more satisfaction they’ll naturally take from Joe Public standing up to get in Arlen Specter’s face. Speaking of which, here’s a video sent by one of our readers from a town hall last month purporting to show James Clyburn asleep — literally — at the wheel. I honestly can’t tell. He sure seems tired and disinterested, but is there evidence of actual slumber while his constituents are questioning him? I report, you decide.
Blowback
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Actually, Malkin just posted what the Boston Globe found. Even Obama’s supporters are turning on him. Then again the Boston Globe did uncover his illegal aunt and other
fraudsdistractions.andy85719 on August 12, 2009 at 7:31 PM
speaking of storks. did anybody see Pixar’s “UP” this summer. the short cartoon about the storks was funny. ok, back to the hate…
Ghoul aid on August 12, 2009 at 7:33 PM
It’s on fox now. “Inside job?”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/12/white-house-refutes-suggestions-obama-knew-questioners-new-hampshire-town-hall/
the_nile on August 12, 2009 at 7:33 PM
did he ever get that aunt … recalibrated?
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:33 PM
OT > Dem Congresswomen Admits ObamaCare = Taxpayer Funded Abortion Coverage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTYvK4h44RU
Oops that wasn’t supposed to come out.
Bulldogger on August 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Thunderdome
Hope/change & Death Panel enter…….only Death Panel leave.
portlandon on August 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM
To early to tell. WE NEED MORE BALLISTIC MISSILES TO WIN INDEPENDENTS OVER AND FINALLY DEFEAT THE OBAMACARE.
Bachmann, Rush, Palin, Malkin, Beck, Hannity, Coulter, Boehnner, Cantor, Ryan, Romney, Huck, HA, and all the conservative/libertarian bloggers, etc., have contributed in their own way. Not a Palin fan, but I was surprised by the power of her methapor in deflecting the issue in a philosophical context. And the WH took the bait.
IMHO, we will never win the independents by just focusing on the foreseen cost of this foolish Bill. We can only win this Battle in the neutral ground of moral philosophy and on the actual experience and felt concerns of the people.
IMHO, Health Care issue is a populist matter. We need to frame our debate based on how the people think, not just economics and statistics that many Americans can’t easily grasp (and the WH can easily obfuscate).
For this positive gain, I GIVE ALL THE THANKS AND CREDITS NOT TO ANY POLITICIAN, BUT TO MY FELLOW TEA PARTY PEOPLE AND MY FELLOW ORDINARY AMERICANS (INCLUDING MY PARENTS) WHO WENT TO TOWN HALL MEETINGS and courageously made their voices heard!
TheAlamos on August 12, 2009 at 7:35 PM
No, we’re not about hate here bro. WE are PRO HEALTH REFORM Conservatives.
Pro tort reform, pro patients rights reform, pro free market solutions….
so who can be against reform, yo’?
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:35 PM
I have no desire to check but I bet that woman deleted her facebook account sometime today. Then we can get the full denial from Gibbs, as if it never existed.
sherry on August 12, 2009 at 7:35 PM
oh brother.
Manufactured poll numbers to massage the peon masses.
Give me a freakin break.
Spiritk9 on August 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM
Why all this opposition to children, why all this opposition to elderly? The Dems sure are the opposition these days… but, us, on the other hand, we are PRO HEALTH CARE REFORM…
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM
I’m close to a guerilla poster campaign. The problem is I basically have to go out at about 4 am to keep the stuff from getting ripped down right away, and I don’t have that much free time.
BadgerHawk on August 12, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Oops that wasn’t supposed to come out.
Bulldogger on August 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Good catch.
fourdeucer on August 12, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Dont bring hope to a death panel fight.
the_nile on August 12, 2009 at 7:38 PM
dude
“Conservatives for HEALTH CARE REFORM”
keep it simple, make it like that, it’ll CERTAINLY raise some eyebrows and questions… then’s when the teachable moments start…
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Let us pretend he did not know who she was….. he would have been smart to identify her . I think it would have then been accepted. Instead he tried to play it off as if he did not see her coming.
CWforFreedom on August 12, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Anyone see moveon.org 5 top lies on healthcare reform. That was a brilliant attempt at spin. I might take it a little mor e seriously if dems would call it what it really is:
The semi nationalization of the health insurance industry
ThatMan on August 12, 2009 at 7:42 PM
None of us are against reform except the real twunts in the ranks. No one is advocating the continuation of increasing prices, shrinking insurance policies and uncovered individuals.
But we area against the current bill!
Holger on August 12, 2009 at 7:42 PM
In the last election Seniors were duped by a good con man but it appears they are waking up. They can as a voting block change the make up of the Senate and Congress in 2010. Let’s hope that they don’t have a short memory or get fooled twice.
Bulldogger on August 12, 2009 at 7:43 PM
Oh no no no… we are for HEALTH CARE REFORM…
pro tort reform, pro free market solution, pro patients rights and so forth. We are not pro single payer or pro public option.
see how it works.. creates mass confusion.
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM
Hey Allahpundit and Ed…..
Michael Steele very solidly defended Sarah Palin today. Where is the write up?
I expect it from the other side, but when people who claim to be on “our side” don’t do anything, then it makes question…… maybe you are for these “death panels”?
ms on August 12, 2009 at 7:45 PM
doubt that they’ll get fooled twice.
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:45 PM
Now someone from the GOP step forward and take the lead. Someone step forward and be the leader that this country is craving.
If they do that – 2010 is going to be fantastic!
gophergirl on August 12, 2009 at 7:46 PM
on karl’s post before he lost our comments! i mentioned that these townhalls were having a positive effect on independents who need strength in numbers. i would call these people “conservative sheeple”.
hey, we got’em too. let’s lead’em.
kelley in virginia on August 12, 2009 at 7:46 PM
I don’t know if anyone addressed this earlier, but why does it take a Town Hall to win over anyone???
You would think Common GodDamned Sense would have something to do with it, but seeing this arrogant, socialist fool we have elected as President….
I digress…..
BigWyo on August 12, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Hold on.
Shouldn’t mass clarity be the goal?
misslizzi on August 12, 2009 at 7:48 PM
The time is ripe for a THIRD PARTY… Sign me up as a new member of the “COMMON SENSE” party…
Khun Joe on August 12, 2009 at 7:49 PM
and i think these townhalls & the hatred of Congress (& teh Won) is getting people out off their damn sofa & outside to doorknock, put up signs, etc.
we have a gubernatorial election right now in Virginia & my local Republican committee is alot more concerned about defeating our Dem Congressman in 2010.
kelley in virginia on August 12, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Wait, does this mean all of America is naziracisthomophobes now?
tetriskid on August 12, 2009 at 7:50 PM
bigwyo: alot of people have good intentions but are afraid to step up to the plate without seeing others do it. some of these people probably didn’t even think about how horrible Congress is until the hoopla about the townhalls.
townhalls are good for a zillion reasons. did any of us need them to realize what is going on? no.
but not everyone is as brilliant & perceptive as we are. no brag, just fact.
kelley in virginia on August 12, 2009 at 7:51 PM
why yes, it is the goal. The clarity comes from the questioning. Any reporter or whomever that would see “conservative” and “pro health reform” in the same 2×2 foot space would be like, “Wha?” and ask the questions.
Then, you would CLEARLY say that you’re PRO tort reform, PRO patients rights, PRO free market solutions, and further clarify that you’re not PRO public option.
clear?
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:52 PM
McDonnell’s numbers look good.
misslizzi on August 12, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Khun Joe, not a third party but a new majority party. There definitely isn’t any leadership in either useless party that would stay if the people bring a new majority.
waldensianspirit on August 12, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Keep it up Mobsters ! Expose these fools for what they are..eliteists who don’t give a RIP about America or it’s citizens
rlongstrat on August 12, 2009 at 7:53 PM
How about instead of the (R) and (D) party we have a (T) party…?
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:57 PM
I am liking this a lot. We want to give control back to the people, not the government.
BakerAllie on August 12, 2009 at 7:58 PM
get it, (T) … TEA… party..
duh
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:58 PM
I don’t even think Dems are trying. Everything they do is exposed as a lie or a fraud. And, America is paying attention. Too funny to see the communities organize against the community organizer. :)
Shiny_Tiara on August 12, 2009 at 7:59 PM
take it and run with it. I emailed the message I posted above to lotsa people, including TEA party folks. Would you do the same?
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 7:59 PM
I just hope the movement continues to grow…we need all the numbers we can get…don’t know if all saw it tonight on Special Report but A.B. Stoddard pronounced the public option DOA!
FloridaMike on August 12, 2009 at 8:00 PM
Certainly will, my friend. We need to all step up and stop waiting for any so-called party leader to save us.
BakerAllie on August 12, 2009 at 8:02 PM
Allahpundit:
Subject: Pro Health Care Reform Conservative
Yes, you read it right.
I am a conservative who is utterly PRO HEALTH CARE REFORM. I am so convinced that the left has hijacked this debate by their choice of words. They use “reform” as a proxy for “single payer” or “public option” and paint the rest of us who are against “single payer” as against “reform.” Not true.
We are PRO REFORM Conservatives. We are PRO tort reform, We are PRO free market solutions reform, We are PRO research reform, We are PRO patients rights reform, We are PRO lots of things, but we are certainly not PRO single payer option.
PROUDLY
A PRO HEALTH CARE REFORM CONSERVATIVE
put this out and the left will twist on it for a week. Hijack this debate right back.
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 8:02 PM
I kinda like the cut of yer jib sir!!
BigWyo on August 12, 2009 at 8:05 PM
I’d go with you while OCing as a deterrent, but I really can’t afford a 400 dollar ticket right now.
MadisonConservative on August 12, 2009 at 8:06 PM
Bingo.
misslizzi on August 12, 2009 at 8:08 PM
I saw for myself today what government healthcare would be like. I had to get a new drivers license and I went to the dmv, three windows open and 15 people waiting and it took almost 2 hours for me to get my license.
Cookies Mom on August 12, 2009 at 8:11 PM
OReilly just hammered, HAMMERED the white house on talking points.
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 8:11 PM
c’mon, you have something against folks takin’ a smoke break?
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Oreilly did great. Just smacked down gibs in the beginning of his show
SavedOrCreated3MillionMarxists on August 12, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Yea but he’s got Claire McCaskle on now and she’s spinnin like a top. OReally wouldn’t ask her the tough questions. He let her dance. Ask her tough guy will you support a single payer system? Bill OReally panders just like a professional poll!
Softballs so they come back on. I sick and tired of punks! What we need is more real men with the balls to fight for what they believe in and an lot more Sarahs.
She did more to sink Pinnochios’ HealthScare (maybe with the exception of Rush) with Death Panels than anyone else in the last two weeks. Simply articulated what we were thinking!
dhunter on August 12, 2009 at 8:30 PM
LOL Ed just got props on Countdown!
Punchenko on August 12, 2009 at 8:34 PM
That congressman must have had a long night with Mr. Frank.
hottieinthehouse on August 12, 2009 at 8:37 PM
I just saw that myself, I thought my eyes were deceiving me…was trolling through the channels and saw his mug on there…
Congrats Ed!!!
cmsinaz on August 12, 2009 at 8:38 PM
Waterloo!
The Democrats have awaken a sleeping giant. People are informed and involved, and the genie isn’t going back in the bottle!
The congress has become a bully: Calling their constituents “un-American”, and sleeping (Clyburn) or talking on the phone (Sheila Jackson Lee) while the people they are supposed to represent are speaking, canceling town halls. Buying expensive jets for travel…Throw the BUMS out!!!!!!
TN Mom on August 12, 2009 at 8:44 PM
WOW, now thats’ what I’m talkin about!
Dennis Miller on OReally? just ripped Pelosi to shreds calling her vapid, empty headed, viscious little lying politician and that he wouldn’t be in her presence lest the bad karma wear off on him!
dhunter on August 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC-R6hslm4A&feature=related
Jeff from WI on August 12, 2009 at 8:50 PM
People aren’t just mad about health care, it’s the overall agenda.
Herd Fan on August 12, 2009 at 8:51 PM
no contest….Marc
cmsinaz on August 12, 2009 at 8:53 PM
They are the party of chopping up babies, spending their grandchildren into the poorhouse, and euthanizing oldsters. They thrive on abusing the powerless.
Akzed on August 12, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Jeff from WI on August 12, 2009 at 8:50 PM
no contest….Marc
cmsinaz on August 12, 2009 at 8:53 PM
yup
Jeff from WI on August 12, 2009 at 8:56 PM
Sorry bro. NO CAN DO.
I don’t support reforming the best health care on the planet. I don’t support making little refinements managed by the people who brought us the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Veterans Administration, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the IRS and the Post Office. That’s from my list of things in urgent need of reform. That being said I second these:
If only there were a state where these issues were being addressed successfully, then we could adopt a decent model for this activity.
Blacksmith8 on August 12, 2009 at 8:57 PM
simply as a measure to throw a wrench into the dems own arguments and clarify our own. Something is going to happen, and we can use their own words against them, and get what we would prefer.
ted c on August 12, 2009 at 9:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRFZUB3NzGs
Jeff from WI on August 12, 2009 at 9:10 PM
ok, now I’m feeling old….love that song!
cmsinaz on August 12, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Man, you can always tell when comments registration is opened, eh? Libtards come out of the woodwork like cockroaches.
Midas on August 12, 2009 at 9:32 PM
when is the prez gonna learn, its about Freedom, and how badly we want to keep it for ourselves, not cede it to a bunch of power hungry elitists who think they can run my life better then I can.
socalconcervitive on August 12, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Funny what saying “Death Panel” about your signature Marxist piece of legislation does.
darwin on August 12, 2009 at 9:59 PM
I’m so sick of hearing about the independents. In many ways they are more loathsome than liberals as they have no principals at all.
Jeff from WI on August 12, 2009 at 10:01 PM
LOL…me too
Jeff from WI on August 12, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Here is a good roundup re how the “mobs” are really behaving and that they are being misrepresented by the Obama-invested media: http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDE2NTYzNzFjNjExYzFmN2FmNWUzYjBmM2UwYjYzMWM=
onlineanalyst on August 12, 2009 at 11:24 PM
NEVER FORGET!!!
Don’t forget who is working with Obama, on this socialist health care program, The liberal democrats, the drug companies, AARP, the lawyers and the lawyers in CONGRESS!
They are against us….
They are against the people, and we won’t forget!
They call us a mob, birthers, astroturferes, the Nazis….
But we are the people, and our voice WILL be heard.
There is a revolution coming and we are all a part of THIS!!!
So thank you, for being so concerned, having a voice, and really seeing what’s going on.
They are in for a world of hurt!
But don’t forget…..
idesign on August 12, 2009 at 11:28 PM
This is not about health care reform It is reparations straight-up! This is a massive welfare program for ghetto blacks, illegal aliens,gays with aids and all other special groups in Obama’s army of non tax paying bums. He told Joe The Plumber what he was going to do. The Communist plans to take from those that have (Insurance) and give it to those that have-not. It’s kinda affirmative action of assets. It may be too late to stop him! Hope not!
Marco on August 12, 2009 at 11:33 PM
While the ebbing poll numbers for Obamacare are encouraging, it will be a huge mistake for opponents of government-run health care to take much consolation from them. The Democratic leadership have repeatedly demonstrated their contempt for the opinions and desires of the (un)American people. Why would polls showing that even 75% of the public oppose socialized medicine deter them? Their concern is not superior delivery of health care; their concern is not the cost of whatever tyrannical system they impose on the people. THEIR OBJECTIVE IS POWER. Power which, they believe, will flow to them as they reduce the people to dependents and citizens to subjects. This fight is far from over and it seems likely that the Democrats will foist some unjust health care enactment on the public before the year is out. The Democrats have too much political capital invested in this issue to back away now. The real question is: Will the voters hold them accountable in 2010?
F. Sumter on August 13, 2009 at 12:02 AM
I didn’t think this was the way to win independents. I thought you would win independents by saying things like “Well, we want to put partisanship aside and work with the President to make this bill the best it can be…”
ddrintn on August 13, 2009 at 12:42 AM
Too bad that all the knuckleheads that voted for His Oneness can’t be stuck with BarryCare including paying for it.
Dr. ZhivBlago on August 13, 2009 at 1:07 AM
MSM spin:
indies have suddenly developed a taste for Nazi mobs
NoFanofLibs on August 13, 2009 at 7:13 AM
I’ve got not problem with the protestors, though count me as part of that sample who’s not persuaded by their approach. But what I don’t understand is where were these people in September and February when the government allowed the financial industry to rob us blind to the tune of 1 trillion+ dollars. Where have they been as the investment banking community gradually began to dominate the treasury and the regulatory agencies that are meant to keep Wall Street inline.
Honestly, I think this is where the arguments about corporate sponsorship of protests becomes relevant. No one is arguing that sentiment against the bill is not “real.” But anyone who’s tried to organize a public protest knows that it takes time and resources. There is no big corporate interest behind opposing the bank bailout, and thus, there is no huge public outcry over something that is much worse than any of the healthcare bills proposed by the Congress.
CrankyIndependent on August 13, 2009 at 7:26 AM
You must have missed this! But it’s understandable, since it was not reported anywhere in the MSM. Even Allah dismissed it, but we were there and we knew this would grow as the career politicians have turned a deaf ear to their constituents.
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/27/fiscal-responsibility-is-the-new-counterculture/
Christian Conservative on August 13, 2009 at 8:53 AM
I think there was a somewhat muted public outcry over TARP. It seemed to be manifested primarily in calls and e-mails to congressmen. I suspect that the dire predictions from both the Democratic and Republican leadership prompted many to hold their fire as they were gripped with uncertainty about the economy and the best course of action. I suspect that the TARP program, however, marked the beginning of the current outrage. Congress and the president(s) on successive issues — TARP, stimulus, auto bailouts, auto company takeovers, cap and tax, cash for clunkers, and now health care — have turned a contemptuously deaf ear to the protests of the American people. Think of TARP as the Stamp Act of 1765 — merely the first act of a corrupt and unresponsive government in a struggle that may well last for years.
F. Sumter on August 13, 2009 at 9:04 AM
he’s not asleep, @ least that’s the way it looks on this vid, but he could not look more disinterested.
Good thing that across the country citizens will have a choice in the next elections. There is a simple response to all of this…..vote these slugs out of office.
Tom66 on August 13, 2009 at 9:14 AM
But I don’t think the healthcare bill and TARP are anywhere near the same in terms of perniciousness. No doubt I’m pissed off that the guy who ran on “reform” and “transparency” is making back door deals with Big Pharma to prevent the use of generics and price negotiations (the free market actually COULD work in this case). No doubt I’m horrified by Senators who’ve been bought off by the insurance industry pushing through a bill that would make health insurance mandatory ala car insurance, but wouldn’t open competition along state lines to prevent state health insurance monopolies.
But even if (when) this horrible giveaway to the insurance industry passes (and they call it healthcare) even THAT won’t be as bad as TARP. For every negative story about single payer (which isn’t even in any piece of legislation) I wish there was a story about Goldman-Sachs and Tim Geithner playing lottery with toxic assets. It’s a much more destructive act than a half hearted attempt to regulate the insurance industry. But this seems to push buttons and that doesn’t. Remember TARP I and II aren’t just September and February they are STILL happening.
CrankyIndependent on August 13, 2009 at 9:16 AM
The town hall protesters are independents.
jhffmn on August 13, 2009 at 9:22 AM
Of course seniors are speaking up and are hacked off at this. Of course independents are in opposition to Obamacare. Of course the majority of Americans in every voting bloc is opposed–it is wrong.
It is wrong to produce an omnibus legislation bill redefining the intimate relationship between the doctor and patient, insurer and insured, state and citizen, and citizen to their maker.
It is plain wrong to employ an intelligent but woefully misled bioethicist who would encourage the early demise of people who are fathers, mothers, grandfathers, husbands and valued members of our society. It brings into clear the true value of the individual and utterly exposes the devaluation of human life down to a simple cost figure. But, this is who we are dealing with.
ted c on August 13, 2009 at 9:54 AM
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