Wow: Chevy Volt to get 230 mpg in the city?

posted at 5:15 pm on August 11, 2009 by Allahpundit

So says GM, although the EPA has yet to confirm. If it’s true, then you’re looking at the first car with triple-digit gas mileage, fully four times the amount of its nearest competitor. Actually, it’s even better than that: It can run on electricity alone for up to 40 miles, so if your round-trip commute’s within that range, you don’t need gas at all. Thrilling news, not because the Volt’s going to solve America’s dependence on Middle Eastern oil overnight but because the baseline technology’s now not only available but almost cost-effective. Why do I say almost? Let’s do the math. Initial sticker-price estimates are $40,000; assume it’ll be a bit more than that, then deduct $7,500 for the federal tax credit you’ll get for buying one. Let’s say that leaves us with a cost of $35,000. Figure a new car with standard fuel efficiency will get 20 mpg and run you $18,000. Now assume gas prices of $3 per gallon. Buying the cheaper car will save you enough money to afford 5,667 gallons of gas, which, at 20 mpg, means it would be a better deal than the Volt for the first … 113,000 miles. That also doesn’t account for (a) the (comparatively tiny) cost of electricity to charge the battery, (b) the headaches for apartment-dwellers in finding a place to charge the thing, (c) the possibility of higher maintenance costs as the Volt’s new technology suffers glitches, and (d) the strain on urban electrical grids a decade or two down the road when these suckers become popular.

But never mind that. Like I say, we’re thinking big picture here, and the big picture for what this’ll do to Islamic oil autocracies once the technology becomes better and cheaper is sweet. Exit question: Shouldn’t Iran pessimists be looking especially carefully at this rig? If you believe some sort of confrontation in the Gulf is inevitable and you realize what’ll happen to oil prices if the Straits of Hormuz are closed or, god forbid, a regional war breaks out, then suddenly the Volt doesn’t seem like a terrible deal. Especially if you toss a little Carter-esque Hopenchange stagflation in there for old time’s sake.

Blowback

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Since when do they measure electricity in “gallons”?

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 11, 2009 at 6:18 PM

New Math?

Del Dolemonte on August 11, 2009 at 6:32 PM

allah, do you own a car that you depend on daily?

peacenprosperity on August 11, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Save $200 in gas each month.

Spend $80 in extra power costs (including $40 in taxes to Obama)

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:32 PM

http://hotair.com/wp/wp-admin/profile.php It’s in the video. Something like 40 cents a charge.

Allahpundit on August 11, 2009 at 5:27 PM

Well, in cali here, we pay average (baseline plus overages) about 15cents/kwh, so that makes about 3kwh. Now lets assume that the 40 miles is done at city speeds (35-40 mph) so the vehicle has about a one hour drive time. With these estimates it takes about 3KW to go power the vehicle for 40 miles. There are .75KW/HP so they are saying it takes on average, roughly 4hp to move their vehicle at 40mph.

There is a lot of estimation and truncation in their, but there you have it folks. If you want to go 40 miles on 40 cents, all get is 4hp.

Fighton03 on August 11, 2009 at 6:33 PM

The long term implications of this are awesome.

The short term practical ones, not so much. What are going to be the energy implications of Can and Trade? How much will the electricity to charge this thing cost?

Plus, GM is selling these things for a loss up front until the economies of scale catch up (which is going to be tough since people in apartments can’t really use them easily), so there are likely a few corners cut. With the disparate labor costs built into every other GM model, what are the odds that this thing even lasts 113,000 miles before having to either replace a really expensive battery or other major component?

But 3rd generation of this thing? Hell yeah. Go Galt; buy some land and some solar panels, survive whatever coming hell the federal government heaps on us with relatively little pain.

BadgerHawk on August 11, 2009 at 6:34 PM

aceinstall on August 11, 2009 at 6:27 PM

Despite all the bailout nonsense, which I hate, the Chevy smallblock V-8 is better than it’s ever been.

The LS-7 that is only currently available in the Z06 Vette is the best engine available today.

All aluminum, 427 cu.in., 505hp, 21mpg!

It’s the street version of the C6R Lemans race engine, 6 championships.

But GM builds crap nobody wants, like a street legal 505 horse wicked looking Corvette, made in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Brian1972 on August 11, 2009 at 6:34 PM

Hybrid cars like the Prius are evil. Primary Gas engine plus a second complete electric powertrain.

Plug in cars are heavenly.

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:34 PM

Buy a Volt. Kill a terrorist.

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:31 PM

They might die of laughter-induced internal ruptures…

LimeyGeek on August 11, 2009 at 6:34 PM

*Cap and Trade

BadgerHawk on August 11, 2009 at 6:35 PM

I agree with Allah on this one. Buy a Volt. Kill a terrorist.

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:31 PM

I got a better one….kill a terrorist, take his oil?

Fighton03 on August 11, 2009 at 6:35 PM

If you want something lightning fast, think electric.

Anybody here ever try to hold a slot car in a curve? There is no gradual buildup in speed – it’s instantaneous.

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:36 PM

I got a better one….kill a terrorist, take his oil?

Fighton03 on August 11, 2009 at 6:35 PM

Dick Cheney, where have you been?

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Florida swamp land, cheap, you drain, you build.

tarpon on August 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Buy a Volt. Kill a terrorist.
faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:31 PM

You kill a terrorist, I’ll buy you a Volt.

TXUS on August 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM

[faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:34 PM]

LOL. Raising awareness, are you?

Dusty on August 11, 2009 at 6:39 PM

They’ll just sell it to Russia, India, and China. The real short term solution is the abundance of American oil that we have, until alternative technologies are perfected. Of course, I guess this is pointless to dream about because with all of the global warming hoax crap out there, we’ll never get access to our own oil.

RightWinged on August 11, 2009 at 6:24 PM

Even if all the new technologies work as envisioned crude oil and crude oil products will be essential to our economy. I think we should leave our oil in the ground for future generations… we really should leave something for them aside from debts. Also, much of the offshore US oil is not worth going after until prices climb again.

lexhamfox on August 11, 2009 at 6:39 PM

Plug in cars are heavenly.

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:34 PM

They don’t run or sound like this, though.

Brian1972 on August 11, 2009 at 6:40 PM

I like this newest lab rat from Hennessey much better.

Watch, and listen, to the video. :)

Brian1972 on August 11, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Thank for this, I’m bookmarking it to sing me to sleep at night. The Z-28 is about two years out and I’ve already started saving, it’ll be my next dream to come true. By the way, I’ve owned 3 camaro’s before I started a family. 2-70′s and a 71, all three were yellow with black strips like the Hennessey.

aceinstall on August 11, 2009 at 6:42 PM

IF THE FUTURE IS NOW WHY IS DIPPIN DOTS STILL “THE ICE CREAM OF THE FUTURE!??!?!?!?!?!?!”

MAKES ME SOOOOOOO MAD!

ahhhhhhhh

Joe Caps on August 11, 2009 at 5:43 PM

ROFL!!!

Call them Obamamobiles! Everyone will want them! LOL

capejasmine on August 11, 2009 at 6:42 PM

This is bad-ass. SO it’s 40k. Who cares? This number will eventually lower considerably. We need to stop burning oil in our cars for a number of reasons, sticking it to the Arabs not the least among them. That’s something both the left and right can agree on! Technology is grand, sometimes.

Dr. Manhattan on August 11, 2009 at 6:45 PM

Forget the 230mph, they are also claiming:

GM is simulating tests to make sure the new lithium-ion batteries last 10 years

The big problem with these electric cars is it ends up costing more then the gas saved when they have to replace the batteries every 4 to 5 years. IF they actually have a battery that last this long then these cars might be an economically feasible car finally, but seeing has now the Obama administrations is refusing to release GM 2nd quarter financial statements I would not believe it. GM is getting ready to do a stock release also, so my guess is this is false hype to get some suckers to by it.

This article and fact got blown over by the MSM.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090807-718437.html

General Motors Co. said Friday it will continue disclosing quarterly financial performance, but does not plan to announce second-quarter results until after the close of this year’s third quarter.

The auto maker is no longer subject to rules governing publicly traded companies, though it is under close watch of the U.S. government, its new majority owner.

That is just the first 2 lines and it is unbelievable the MSM blew off this fact the Obama administration says he does not have to release data and numbers for the Government Motors now that he took it over. They claim they are going to disclose them, but if you continue reading they go on and state that they are NOT releasing the 2nd quarter data until the 3rd quarter now.

JeffinSac on August 11, 2009 at 6:47 PM

This number will eventually lower considerably.

Dr. Manhattan on August 11, 2009 at 6:45 PM

Like the cost of solar electric systems?

Fighton03 on August 11, 2009 at 6:48 PM

Alright! lets plug 50 million of these things into the power grid! What could go wrong?

What does crap and trade do the the power generation industry?

allrsn on August 11, 2009 at 6:49 PM

The 230 MPG estimate comes from the idea that you get 40 miles free from plugging it in. What I want to know is how many MPG do you get if you only use gas and never plug it in? The answer to that is kind of critical to if this is actually practical.

Resolute on August 11, 2009 at 6:49 PM

General Motors Co. said Friday it will continue disclosing quarterly financial performance, but does not plan to announce second-quarter results until after the close of this year’s third quarter.

The auto maker is no longer subject to rules governing publicly traded companies, though it is under close watch of the U.S. government, its new majority owner.

JeffinSac on August 11, 2009 at 6:47 PM

Transparency…RIIIIIIIGHT!

Fighton03 on August 11, 2009 at 6:50 PM

Dick Cheney, where have you been?

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM

hunting…wanna go?

Fighton03 on August 11, 2009 at 6:52 PM

GM is simulating tests to make sure the new lithium-ion batteries last 10 years, Posawatz said

“Let’s see…. If we have ten batteries, and each last a year, then that would mean that one battery would last ten years — or something.”

Or:

“If we test a battery for a year, and it loses 10% of its battery life, then ‘obviously’ it will last ten years — or something — because everything’s linear, unless it’s exponential, or something else.”

Don’t get me wrong. I like this car. But given that I drive pretty much only highway miles at fairly high rates of speed, and pretty much never use my brakes, I don’t figure it to save me much.

notropis on August 11, 2009 at 6:52 PM

Alright! lets plug 50 million of these things into the power grid! What could go wrong?
What does crap and trade do the the power generation industry?
allrsn on August 11, 2009 at 6:49 PM

Fryed.

TXUS on August 11, 2009 at 6:54 PM

This is a photo of the LS-7 I was talking about.

500hp, right out of the box, and comes in under the gas guzzler tax limit. The Congress will make that limit higher in the future most likely, but they hit the target the had at the time.

Put this baby in a new Camaro, and I’m set.

Brian1972 on August 11, 2009 at 6:54 PM

What I want to know is how many MPG do you get if you only use gas and never plug it in? The answer to that is kind of critical to if this is actually practical.

Resolute on August 11, 2009 at 6:49 PM

Then you would be an imbecile. Thanks for playing.

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:56 PM

Okay, forget about bringing terrorist-sponsor states to their knees economically. That’s ghey.

Allahpundit on August 11, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Oh boy. Do you think the arabs are just going to throw up their hands and say “We beat. America beat us. No more money for jihad.”

The amount of oil that goes to power aircraft, trains, buses, ships, trucks of all sizes, and the entire military is most of the oil consumed. This battery technology does not scale up to serve those markets so it does not herald the start of anything.

For a guy who prides himself on being Eeyore, you really jumped the shark with this on.

At any rate, the arabs are already investing their billions in America so that once the oil runs out, they will still have us by the short and curlys.

keep the change on August 11, 2009 at 6:56 PM

I love how when progress really happens here, the usual suspects still poo poo it.

No one is forcing you to buy these (yet and hopefully never).

I like my Prius but if Ford comes out with something similar, I am on it.

Squid Shark on August 11, 2009 at 6:57 PM

I would like to see a total cost, cradle to grave … I bet it is nowhere near what a gas car will cost, including the fuel used.

tarpon on August 11, 2009 at 6:58 PM

By the time a battery car eventually pays for itself in fuel savings, it is time to change the batteries – for another $10,000.

Electric cars are great. Batteries are not. Running an electric car off a battery is as practical as running it off an extension cord. At least with the extension cord, you won’t run out of juice.

keep the change on August 11, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Yeah….let us all run out now and order one.

Over my dead cat.

Uncle Sugar is ‘giving’ me any tax credit. YOU are. Do the math on that.

Limerick on August 11, 2009 at 7:03 PM

The Volt will run 40 miles on a charge, then the gasoline engine kicks in to recharge the batteries. So the one gallon of gasoline engine recharges the batteries the equivalent 5 times to get the total of around 230 mpg?
So how much does a charge of the batteries cost via the wall plug-in vs. via a gallon of gas?
And how quickly will electric cars get the government to start taxing us by the miles we travel vs. adding tax to gasoline to pay for the roads?

albill on August 11, 2009 at 7:05 PM

Based on the Volt being a lot like the Prius, I get a electricity cost of about $1 for that 40 mile trip. Compared to $2 for the Prius at 2.50/gal gas and 50mpg.

If the price premium for the Volt over the Prius was $10K and gas was $3/gal it would take over 300K miles to make up the difference.

I assumed the Prius got 50mpg city/highway, 25% IC engine efficiency. For the Volt I used .85 motor and .9 charge efficiency. It boiled down to 7kWh mechanical power to make the trip which took 9kWh electricity from the outlet (the holes!) and at $0.115/kWh average US residential electricity rate ~ $1.

deadman on August 11, 2009 at 7:05 PM

I like my Prius but if Ford comes out with something similar, I am on it.

Squid Shark on August 11, 2009 at 6:57 PM

Nobody gives a squirt of piss….

BigWyo on August 11, 2009 at 7:06 PM

Brian1972 on August 11, 2009 at 6:54 PM
I’m with ya, I’m blue collar old school about cars BUT learning to appreciate the new tech. I want my horse power AND good mileage. It broke my heart as well when GM got bailed out, but an a$$kicking Camaro is helping ease the sting. I bet the Z-28 gets what will then be the old vet engine.

aceinstall on August 11, 2009 at 7:07 PM

ObamaBuggies. All the Volks will want a Wagen.

Mallard T. Drake on August 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM

What I want to know is how many MPG do you get if you only use gas and never plug it in? The answer to that is kind of critical to if this is actually practical.

[Resolute on August 11, 2009 at 6:49 PM]

Basically, 50 mpg.

Dusty on August 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM

HAHAHA, I knew it. It has begun.

Lutz on Fox just now admitted that they wouldn’t make money on the Volt, at least the first generation. and that’s at
$40,000 a pop.

Only a government run entity could get so excited about losing money.

exceller on August 11, 2009 at 7:12 PM

This is bad-ass. SO it’s 40k. Who cares? This number will eventually lower considerably. We need to stop burning oil in our cars for a number of reasons, sticking it to the Arabs not the least among them. That’s something both the left and right can agree on! Technology is grand, sometimes.
Dr. Manhattan on August 11, 2009 at 6:45 PM

No, with respect, we need to drill, drill, drill — like Clinton in Vegas — and build enough nuclear electric plants to power his vibrators and, of course, those cute little lawnmowers you call cars.

TXUS on August 11, 2009 at 7:13 PM

Innovation is good. I don’t even mind modest incentives to do different things. The Volt is a good idea, what matters of course is how it works when it hits the road.

And if selling Volts with a 230mpg CAFE rating lets GM sell more ‘Vettes and CTS-Vs and diesel trucks and still meet CAFE, that’s a good thing.

I’m actually thinking the Nissan Leaf could serve 60-70% of my driving needs if it’s actually able to get out of its own way, not that I’d part with the M5 or the Suburban or the old Mustang to get it.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:13 PM

No one is forcing you to buy these (yet and hopefully never).

Squid Shark on August 11, 2009 at 6:57 PM

Not yet, but we are being forced to subsidize them.

FloatingRock on August 11, 2009 at 7:14 PM

Wow Allah’s taking a lot of hits for saying that consuming less fuel is a good thing. Welcome to my world.

LevStrauss on August 11, 2009 at 5:30 PM

I’m actually all for consuming less fuel, but the numbers just don’t add up on the cost of electricity. A one-tone care is still going to take half a kilowatt hour per mile of charge to run, and that will run you anywhere between 5 to 10 cents. A forty mile charge should cost you $2, not 80 cents, and, here in Baltimore, it will be $4.

Count to 10 on August 11, 2009 at 7:15 PM

exceller – Toyota lost money on the Prius for a long time. You do that to build a presence in the market, and to learn how to build the next one so that you DO make money.

Consider, also, that by selling one car with a 230mpg CAFE rating you buy yourself CAFE headroom to sell 20 CTS-Vs or 6-liter pickups and you DO make money off those.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:15 PM

I bet the Z-28 gets what will then be the old vet engine.

aceinstall on August 11, 2009 at 7:07 PM

From what I read recently, the Z-28 project has been cancelled for now.

It was to be a Camaro mated to the LS-9 engine, which is not 7.0 liters but the 6.3 liter with factory intercooler-supercharger that is only currently available in the Corvette ZR1, 638hp.

Brian1972 on August 11, 2009 at 7:16 PM

Brian1972 – the new Camaro is a hideous thing. Tiny little windows. The ‘Vette has more glass area.

I’d rather have a nicely-built ’69, or even a Dynacorn car with an LS3 and a truckload of Detroit Speed stuff under it.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:19 PM

Then you would be an imbecile. Thanks for playing.

faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:56 PM

I think he’s asking what you do if you are driving cross country. It’s impractical to have to stop every 300 miles for 12 hours to recharge your car. So what kind of mileage will you get on just gas until the end of the day when you can recharge?

BadgerHawk on August 11, 2009 at 7:19 PM

I assumed the Prius got 50mpg city/highway, 25% IC engine efficiency. For the Volt I used .85 motor and .9 charge efficiency. It boiled down to 7kWh mechanical power to make the trip which took 9kWh electricity from the outlet (the holes!) and at $0.115/kWh average US residential electricity rate ~ $1.

deadman on August 11, 2009 at 7:05 PM

Electric motor efficiency is apparently now around 95%, but battery efficiency is lower (I couldn’t find a number, but I’ve heard %50).

Count to 10 on August 11, 2009 at 7:19 PM

By the time a battery car eventually pays for itself in fuel savings, it is time to change the batteries – for another $10,000.

That is the part no one talks about.

Same situation as solar panels, they seem like a great idea until the math gets in the way.

brirodg on August 11, 2009 at 7:19 PM

So with less gas bought…where do the taxes come from?
Do you think that the government will be happy that you aren’t paying taxes?

right2bright on August 11, 2009 at 7:21 PM

Consider, also, that by selling one car with a 230mpg CAFE rating you buy yourself CAFE headroom to sell 20 CTS-Vs or 6-liter pickups and you DO make money off those.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:15 PM

Which only demonstrates a) why CAFE is ridiculously stupid, and b) why they fudged the calculation around to give it a ridiculous mpg rating.

Count to 10 on August 11, 2009 at 7:21 PM

Consider, also, that by selling one car with a 230mpg CAFE rating you buy yourself CAFE headroom to sell 20 CTS-Vs or 6-liter pickups and you DO make money off those.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:15 PM

That’s going to be the key. GM makes money on its trucks and SUVs. If it can sell enough Volts that it can get out of manufacturing crap like the Aveo it will be in good shape.

Of course, that’s assuming the CAFE standards are based off of average economy of vehicles sold and not vehicles produced. I have to double check on that.

BadgerHawk on August 11, 2009 at 7:24 PM

Save $200 in gas each month.
Spend $80 in extra power costs (including $40 in taxes to Obama)
faraway on August 11, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Sounds very conservative, and what pray tell does one do when the coal plants are shuttered by Hussein? Or when every one rushes out and buys one and then there are brown and black out due to increased demand, Hussein reduced generating capacity, and aging power transmission lines?

What price per gallon then?

And 50MPG is 50MPG. The rest is spin and hype. I suppose there is or could be such a thing as killowats per mile – KPM.

Friendly21 on August 11, 2009 at 7:26 PM

If you happen to live in Phoenix, you could run those 40 miles for “free” by investing another $14000 for a solar panel. That only stretches the payback to 400K miles. At 40 miles per day thats about 27 years.

deadman on August 11, 2009 at 7:26 PM

GM is simulating tests to make sure the new lithium-ion batteries last 10 years

Stop BIG LITHIUM!! We need a winfall profit tax on big lithium!!

Caper29 on August 11, 2009 at 7:28 PM

If it can sell enough Volts that it can get out of manufacturing crap like the Aveo it will be in good shape.
BadgerHawk on August 11, 2009 at 7:24 PM

Out of making one crap car for another crap car… if they are making all this spin & hype now – don’t expect much when they hit the show room floor. Especially at 40K for the basic model.

Friendly21 on August 11, 2009 at 7:29 PM

This is stupid, and everybody knows it.

The Volt just uses a fuel other than gasoline. It does not get 230 mpg, because it also uses a lot of electricity, which must be provided by the consumer through his electric meter.

I drive an electric utility cart for work. It uses no gasoline at all. It would be accurate to say that this electric utility cart gets more than a 1,000,000 mpg. But that does not mean it’s true.

If the EPA lets GM get away with this outrageous bullshit, it will be the second clear indication (after Cash 4 Clunkers) that the Obama Administration has their thumb on the scale, and they are going do whatever it takes to make GM succeed, including lying to the American People.

Unless there is a forceful pushback from the EPA immediately, we will know that the fix is in.

gridlock2 on August 11, 2009 at 7:29 PM

Count to 10
95% efficiency is only found in the best 100+ hp constant speed motors. A variable speed 20hp motor with drive electronics will come in even less than 85%

deadman on August 11, 2009 at 7:35 PM

And 50MPG is 50MPG. The rest is spin and hype. I suppose there is or could be such a thing as killowats per mile – KPM.

Friendly21 on August 11, 2009 at 7:26 PM

Kilowatt hours per mile.
Watts, if your remember, is a measure of power, not energy.

Count to 10 on August 11, 2009 at 7:36 PM

95% efficiency is only found in the best 100+ hp constant speed motors. A variable speed 20hp motor with drive electronics will come in even less than 85%

deadman on August 11, 2009 at 7:35 PM

Ah, okay. Didn’t know that.

Count to 10 on August 11, 2009 at 7:37 PM

Brian1972 on August 11, 2009 at 7:16 PM
If I have to settle for the SS I’ll be OK. Thanks for the chat, I’ve got the Montreal run at 2am and will fall asleep to the sweet sound of that Hennessey V8.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Last sunday my buddy and I went no a cruz on the kangamagus highway in N.H.( route 112) he was in his 07 vet, me in my new camaro. Everywhere we stopped a crowd formed around my car and people asked a ton of questions about it. It’s not for everyone but most people loved it. I’m not used to that kind of attention but it was very cool that folks felt comfortable to just walk up to a stranger and start a conversation like that

aceinstall on August 11, 2009 at 7:37 PM

Count to 10 – that’s the way CAFE’s been since day one. That’s the only reason Ford built Focuses for most of the last decade – to buy CAFE headroom.

Indeed it used to be that US-made cars and ‘captive imports’ were treated separately for CAFE purposes, and Ford initially moved Crown Vic/Town Car production to Mexico so that it could be treated as an ‘import’.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:38 PM

If the EPA lets GM get away with this outrageous bullshit, it will be the second clear indication (after Cash 4 Clunkers) that the Obama Administration has their thumb on the scale, and they are going do whatever it takes to make GM succeed, including lying to the American People.

Unless there is a forceful pushback from the EPA immediately, we will know that the fix is in.

gridlock2 on August 11, 2009 at 7:29 PM

The ‘public option’ as applied to the automotive industry.

Count to 10 on August 11, 2009 at 7:38 PM

If you’re squabbling over the Volt, imagine what the mileage rating on the Nissan Leaf’s going to be. 600mpg? 750?

So selling one Leaf means you get to sell 50 of whatever replaces the QX56 without paying any CAFE penalties…

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:44 PM

I’m a fan of pushing the edge on developing electric cars, but the argument that alternative energy is our only hope to get off foreign oil has always struck me as particularly disingenuous.

hawksruleva

Not only that, but most of our oil doesn’t come from nations that sponsor terrorism anyway, so it will make little difference in the grand scheme of things. It’s not like China and India won’t buy up most of the access left over.

xblade on August 11, 2009 at 7:46 PM

Does the MPG drop to 90 if you use the cigarette lighter?

Jeff from WI on August 11, 2009 at 7:48 PM

The only important stat is – what is its 0 to 100 mph figure.

If it won’t go, it’s useless.

OldEnglish on August 11, 2009 at 7:49 PM

aceinstall – have fun with it, just not to my taste. I’m an old fart anyway and not really looking for the attention.

I ordered my M5 debadged way-back-when; a friend bought a Viper coupe soon thereafter. I had the boring sedan, he had the crowd, and that was fine with me; maybe if I weren’t married it’d matter more…

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:50 PM

I still think GM ought to do left-brain/right-brain packages. Sell you a Volt and a CTS-V, or a ZR-1, or an Escalade, for one low price.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:51 PM

Screw it, I’ll take this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__q93LZ1Fzg

Jeff from WI on August 11, 2009 at 7:51 PM

OldEnglish – no, not really. Not every car has to be everything to everyone.

There’s a place for road rockets, and there’s a place for urban scooters, and various in between.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:55 PM

There’s a place for road rockets, and there’s a place for urban scooters, and various in between.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:55 PM

You’re right of course. If somebody wants a battery driven chicklet on wheels, then by all means, utilize the free market and make yourself happy.

When I start getting lectured about my V-8 pick up is destroying the planet, and someone else is so wonderful for driving a wheeled chicklet, then I get mad, and want to do burnouts in front of their house blasting Skynard’s “Freebird” at 1000 watts like I just won the Daytona 500.

That’s just my instinct to be free as a bird, now.

Don’t Tread on Me!

Brian1972 on August 11, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Bravo! Nice accomplishment on the American car industry.

But Allah’s right. First models of any vehicle regardless, come with glitches. Anyhoo, still it won’t work for our lifestyle.

ProudPalinFan on August 11, 2009 at 8:17 PM

There’s a place for road rockets, and there’s a place for urban scooters, and various in between.

JEM on August 11, 2009 at 7:55 PM

Quite true – just not on the road that I happen to be burning up. :)

OldEnglish on August 11, 2009 at 8:19 PM

If this technology is so superior, why does it require taxpayers to subsidize it? Why didn’t Henry Ford etc. not require taxpayer subsidies to displace the horse and buggy? Why did the iPod not require taxpayer subsidies to replace cassette tapes, vinyl records, 8 track tapes, etc?

What is the life of the batteries? How much does it cost to replace the batteries when they will no longer hold a charge?

How will we increase electricity generation due to the increased demand? Wind? Solar? Propeller Caps?

DeathB4Tyranny on August 11, 2009 at 8:24 PM

DeathB4Tyranny on August 11, 2009 at 8:24 PM

Don’t forget the kick in the teeth: How much will it cost to scrap defunct batteries? (You don’t think the greenies will let you do it for nowt, do you?)

OldEnglish on August 11, 2009 at 8:30 PM

I would like to see a total cost, cradle to grave … I bet it is nowhere near what a gas car will cost, including the fuel used.

tarpon on August 11, 2009 at 6:58 PM

-
Buy any lithium ion batteries lately? By subsiding/stimulating the technology, much of the real cost of going electric will be hidden in our taxation/redistribution system. These batteries are very expensive, both in dollars and in environmental impact…
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The best part is that as lithium batteries gain more uses and market share across the energy hungry planet, we may end up in a deeper hole with that answer than we are with oil… Shortages of both batteries, and of electricity to charge them.
-

RalphyBoy on August 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM

It creates or saves 230 mpg.

See when you don’t drive some place that you would have driven if had a real car then all that gas you would have used has been saved. My pogo stick creates or saves 1,800 mpg just hopping in circles around my driveway.

Geochelone on August 11, 2009 at 8:36 PM

Loosely quoting Dennis Miller:

“Sure the electric cars will suck at first, but cars are sh*tty now. Drive the sh*tty car of the future.”

BohicaTwentyTwo on August 11, 2009 at 9:02 PM

GM is being pretty cagey on their estimate of when the gas motor will kick in. It is a 1.4 liter 4-cylinder which is marginal for powering the car by itself. A more reliable scenario is that the gas engine kicks in well before the 40 miles estimate is reached and the gas engine cannot keep up with the demands on the battery; so performance and range suffer.
Another issue which popped up with hybrids is the drain on the system caused by accessories, especially heating and A/C (as much as 33% drop in fuel economy). There is a significant drop in range and fuel economy if you want to be comfortable while you drive, and a lesser drop for any other accessory like the stereo. “Actual mileage may vary” has never had more teeth than now.
If Nissan can produce an all-electric vehicle for less than $20K this Volt is already dead in the water; and possibly a lot of hybrids as well.

mad scientist on August 11, 2009 at 9:23 PM

What does “Save The Earth” Nancy think of a “green” car that runs on coal?

burt on August 11, 2009 at 9:27 PM

There are liars, damn liars and car salesmen.

As a mechanical engineer I am thinking Congress will need to repeal the 2nd law of thermo to make these claims come true.

Even if the first order claims are based on something more rigorous than Obama budget projections, what about heat and air conditioning? If you live in Michigan, those batteries have about half their capacity on a 32 F day and you want the interior of the car heated? You wuss! That may take more energy than running the car (but is a freebe in the awful old internal combustion engine). Range 10 miles – on a balmy Michigan winter day.

Then say you recharge hop to Arizona and want air conditioning!?! Double wuss!!

Without nuclear power electric cars are a fool’s errand.

Voodoo on August 11, 2009 at 9:28 PM

The biggest problem with hybrids and electric cars is the poor efficiency of the electrochemical battery. Batteries tend to lose energy as heat on both the charge and discharge cycle; you get back about 60% of what you put in. A good analogy would be an incandesant light bulb versus a florescent; you create a lot of waste heat along with light. I’m not certain that a Prius would get any less gas mileage without the fancy electric drive and battery pack.

mad scientist on August 11, 2009 at 9:32 PM

Looks all the basics have been covered, but one I didn’t see.

I don’t know about the Volt, but current hybrid battery costs about $8,000 to replace. And like all batteries, they eventually wear out, you keep a hybrid long enough, you are going to buy a battery. Plus, for the first few years, forget your local mechanic, that car is going to the dealer for repairs, and the price between a dealership and local garage is staggering.

I like Allah’s arguement about crippling OPEC, especially the regimes that support terrorism, which I think is all of them. But there is another way to do that too.

Drill baby drill. Drill here, drill now. Even California no longer care about the evironment now that they are forced to give out IOU’s, drilling off the coast is now in vogue.

Plus, it produces American jobs immediately.

By all means, continue with the hybrid technology, and when you come up with one that can do the same thing the internal combustion engine AND has the infrastructure to support it AND is more cost effective, I’ll give it a serious look.

But 40 miles on an overnight charge hardly get’s my heart racing.

Hog Wild on August 11, 2009 at 9:45 PM

So the car goes 40 miles on the batteries and gets 50mpg for the remaining 11 miles of the test and that works out to 230mpg overall. I get it.

If the batteries had a range of 50 miles, it’d work out to 2550 mpg. They’re gaming the test.

Pythagoras on August 11, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Spend it on gasoline, or spend it on your electric bill, they’re gonna git you either way.

Until they sell these hybrid electric cars as inexpensively as gasoline cars, I will stick with gasoline cars.

SilverStar830 on August 11, 2009 at 10:15 PM

I’m hoping the inconvenience of long battery charging times (which the Volt will suffer from) may soon be at an end given the recent news that EEstor’s “instant charge” ultracapacitor is going into UL testing. It can charge quickly, within seconds (“as fast as you can pour the current in”) and can discharge slowly, like a battery. A couple of links (though there are better links to be found out there with more of the up-to-date chatter):

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/07/eestor-speaks-huge-leak.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor

RD on August 11, 2009 at 10:35 PM

When will the eggheads ever realize that we are going nowhere until we are committed to cheap and abundant energy.

Saltysam on August 11, 2009 at 10:51 PM

Mew — On a more important subject:

My daughter and I only speak cat to each other. Reduces fights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVx2uCcDXX0

IlikedAUH2O on August 11, 2009 at 6:04 PM

Whoa, hadn’t seen that one yet! After that clip I need a dose of Talking Cats just to compensate -

RD on August 11, 2009 at 11:01 PM

C’mon Chevy, we’re rooting for you; I can only hope they get out from under Capitol Hill before congress starts to pass even more silly car manufacturer-killing laws..

Reaps on August 11, 2009 at 11:23 PM

There’s no way this is true. The conspiracy nuts have been telling us for decades that the big evil oil companies and their fat cat friends (evil republicans) would never allow such technologies. I guess our wars for blood, vengeance, and wealth in the Middle East have all been for nothing.

///

JimRich on August 11, 2009 at 11:39 PM

My partner and I both develop software telecommuting from our home. We have a nice pair of UPSs to support our needs through brown outs and power line down incidents for at least a couple hours at our full power demand. Unfortunately that means 24 large (70AH 12V) batteries to power our test machines. These batteries die after about 3 to 6 years. We squeaked almost 6 years out of this set. For this set it’s about $3600 by the time battery and shipping is dealt with. What will the cost be for the more exotic automobile batteries when they go dead? (Similarly, what is the cost to replace batteries for a solar power array?) This never seems to get considered in the life time cost of an electric automobile (or a solar power array.)

{^_^}

herself on August 12, 2009 at 2:07 AM

Pythagoras – yes, they’re gaming the test, but that’s perfectly fine with me.

As I’ve noted earlier, CAFE is a fool’s errand anyway, in the quarter-century it’s been in effect it’s done far more harm than good.

If selling a modest number of Volts buys GM a bunch of CAFE headroom to sell big/fast/profitable stuff, so much the better.

JEM on August 12, 2009 at 2:59 AM

herself – lifecycle cost of batteries factors into just about any electric or hybrid vehicle. Anyone who doesn’t consider it is setting themself up for trouble.

For something like the Tesla roadster where it’s a lifestyle toy, the cost of operation is not a consideration.

The AC Propulsion folks were quoting 4-5yr pack life for their converted xBoxes.

I haven’t looked at the details but supposedly Nissan will sell you a Leaf but lease you the battery pack.

JEM on August 12, 2009 at 3:04 AM

I drive a hybrid. A BMW 135i. It burns gas and rubber…..

adamsmith on August 12, 2009 at 4:42 AM

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