Why “bend the cost curve” with end-of-life planning?
posted at 12:15 pm on August 9, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
In any system that promises top-down control of medical care costs, the end effect will be rationing of services by artificial methods that get at least partly disconnected from the patient. The specific methods may be murky, but Charles Lane at the Washington Post has some questions about one section of the House version of ObamaCare. Section 1233 imposes a requirement for end-of-life planning sessions every five years for Medicare patients — and immediately after patient gets a terminal diagnosis. Lane wonders why that section gets dropped into a bill that purports to “bend the cost curve”:
Section 1233, however, addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones. Supporters protest that they’re just trying to facilitate choice — even if patients opt for expensive life-prolonging care. I think they protest too much: If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?
Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren’t quite “purely voluntary,” as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, “purely voluntary” means “not unless the patient requests one.” Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive — money — to do so. Indeed, that’s an incentive to insist.
Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit “formulation” of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would “place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,” I don’t think he’s being realistic.
What’s more, Section 1233 dictates, at some length, the content of the consultation. The doctor “shall” discuss “advanced care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to”; “an explanation of . . . living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses” (even though these are legal, not medical, instruments); and “a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families.” The doctor “shall” explain that Medicare pays for hospice care (hint, hint). …
Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party — the government — recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don’t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.
Indeed. While people should be able to access “end-of-life planning” when they desire, and having a living will is a good idea, it isn’t the role of government to push those ideas in a hard-sell approach. It shouldn’t be the government’s business in any case, but this shows how getting the government involved in your health care reduces your privacy and your rights to individual choice.
These aren’t “death panels,” but they’re creepy nonetheless. They’re sales presentations for surrender. If HMOs required patients over 65 and with potentially life-threatening diagnoses to sit through presentations about how great hospice care and plug-pulling orders are, people would rightly scream about it from the rooftops. And patients can change HMOs and insurers now, or opt to pay out of their own pocket; when government takes over health care, there will be nowhere to run.
And what happens when these sales presentations fail to get people to agree to die quickly for the greater good, and the projected cost savings do not appear? How long will Section 1233 remain “voluntary,” even in name?
This is nothing other than an attempt to save money by convincing the sick and the elderly not to seek life-saving medical treatments. In Barack Obama’s words, Section 1233 is where government says, “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking painkillers.“ Monty Python had it just about right more than thirty years ago:
Update: Legal Insurrection in the Green Room has more on rationing care to the elderly and infirm.









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So in other words, Sarah Palin is right.
True_King on August 9, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Ed you put up my favorite Monty Python skit of all time!
conservnut on August 9, 2009 at 12:22 PM
‘…but im naught did!”
blatantblue on August 9, 2009 at 12:22 PM
This is how the Holocaust started, the allegories between 2009 America and 1939 Germany just keep getting more and more frightening. We need no longer ask why the German people followed Adolph Hitler, but instead ask why did we.
doriangrey on August 9, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Managed life cycle panels.
the_nile on August 9, 2009 at 12:24 PM
This is a “thing” that wanted tiny babies to die in a closet.
tessa on August 9, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Abortion makes anything else palatable.
tessa on August 9, 2009 at 12:25 PM
No, no, you guys are confused. At least according to Rep. Betsy Markey’s (CO-4) staff the word “shall” means it’s voluntary. I kid you not that’s what they told me when I called to discuss the cap and trade bill.
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Ed, how is what’s in the bill going to reduce privacy or one’s right to individual choice?
Tom_Shipley on August 9, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Becuase too many of us didn’t want to accept reality. “We aren’t monsters why would we belive any of our fellow countrymen would do these things”.
It’s just plain ingorance. It’s easier to ignore what’s happening and live our lives. At least until it affects us and then it’s too late.
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:28 PM
I should say, section 1233 specifically since that’s the topic here.
Tom_Shipley on August 9, 2009 at 12:28 PM
What gives man the right to decide if someone is worth the life or the means to continue life due to age or a medical condition. When left to the cold cruel unfeeling decisions of
a government board, whose members may have nothing more pressing on their minds at the time of that decision, than what’s for dinner tonight.
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:26 PM
BetseyRoss on August 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM
I was reading HR3200 this morning to my husband…pages 424+ about the end of life issue. It does state that IF a patient does NOT have a DNR in place, they need to explain to the government why: ‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include— ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual’s family and the reasons why
such an order should be updated periodically as
the health of the individual changes.
As the child of an aging parent I’ve had the talk with my father about a living will. But it was HIS choice to put a DNR in place. For the government to state basically: “you’d better give us a good G damned reason why you want to sustain your life” is wrong, IMO.
Annietxgrl on August 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM
I understand you squishy conservatives Ed not feeling comfortable with the label “Death Panel” but what would you call it? I personally am going to start using a term Darwin used last night to describe the whole heath care bill. “Obama’s Death Care”.
I don’t really care who it pisses off or makes uncomfortable. And I will choose political leaders who are not afraid of calling a spade a spade as well, thank you very much.
conservnut on August 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Exactly what I was thinking Ed.
What happens to all those purported savings when Grandpa says “Screw your hospice, put me on the list for bypass surgery.”?
Techie on August 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM
RINO Ed attacks Sarah Palin once more.
When does your check from Soros come in, Ed?
e-pirate on August 9, 2009 at 12:31 PM
ED NOTE: Careful,PETA will be contacting this site for the sake of that cat. It means more to them than people.
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Did you see Obama at the end of that video?
ladyingray on August 9, 2009 at 12:31 PM
But don’t call it a “death panel” or our political pundits will tinkle themselves.
conservnut on August 9, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Having a doctor discuss a living will (which Ed concedes is a good idea) with patients is the same thing as having the doctor force grandma to agree to off herself. Obama is evil!
Also, the democrats are fearmongers!
e-pirate on August 9, 2009 at 12:33 PM
As someone who has dealt with the FDA for years now, I can guarantee Ms. Markey that in their eyes, “shall” means “will.”
Patrick S on August 9, 2009 at 12:33 PM
How long until Harry and Louise start advocating the most natural, effective and efficient method for the dirt nap?
fourdeucer on August 9, 2009 at 12:33 PM
That is simple. Like airline ‘stand-by’ you go on the list. You can be bumped at anytime for any reason.
Limerick on August 9, 2009 at 12:34 PM
While the concept of “death panels” may seem rather absurd given the benign wording of section 1233 the need to bend the cost curves will eventually lead to this very thing.
Always ask yourself where will an idea logically lead. Even if it seems absurd man in his rush to exercise power and control over others will eventually arrive there.
chemman on August 9, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Except no one is saying that. Try again.
Techie on August 9, 2009 at 12:34 PM
If half of terminal patients, who otherwise did not have living wills, sign DNRs & avoid expensive long term “vegetative states,” you agree it would be a cost savings?
Of course, some people will chose to remain alive as long as possible, but some won’t.
e-pirate on August 9, 2009 at 12:35 PM
But, Tapper doesn’t agree…
d1carter on August 9, 2009 at 12:35 PM
When the Nazi’s did this, they started with the mentally deficient, in other words Idiots like you. Don’t think for one second professor Obama will have any problems cracking your egg to make his omelet.
doriangrey on August 9, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Take a look at page 16. It will take away my choice for what I want for an insurance plan. The law does not allow for private insurance companies to issue new policies. So, if you loose your job and find a new one they can’t provide you with health insurance benefits. It would be illegal for the insurance company to issue you the policy. The only choice you have left would be the public option. You couldn’t even supplement it with coverage that would pay for expensive cancer treatments. They would just tell you oh sorry that’s too expensive and really would only extend your life by weeks. When in reality it may save you. Oregon has already done that with thier public plan
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Except everyone who calls it a “death panel.”
Hell, the 4th post in this thread is “This is how the Holocaust started.”
e-pirate on August 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Soylent Green Meets Logan’s Run, with no sexy lead actor in sight.
Mutnodjmet on August 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM
You brought up a good point that has been bothering me.
DEMS don’t believe in God, so therefor they don’t believe in a soul. They DO believe in that fairy tale of Darwinism that supposedly says everything keeps evolving into something better. (The opposite is really true regarding DNA) Well if man & animals EVOLVED and were a matter of survival of the fittest, then why give any medical aid at all. Let the weak just die. No health care, no costs.
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Ya, I told her to try that in a court of law. Her response? “We just interpret it differently”.
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Grandpa or Grandma stay on the list until they die. In other words passive euthanasia. Win-Win situation for the cost curve.
chemman on August 9, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Logan’s Run…
doriangrey on August 9, 2009 at 12:38 PM
The ‘Waiting Room’ takes on a whole new meaning.
Limerick on August 9, 2009 at 12:38 PM
http://datacore.sciflicks.com/soylent_green/sounds/soylent_green_from_people.wav
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Hitler did do experiment on and do away with the mentally disabled. The bill originally did limit care for those people. What do you call that?
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:38 PM
And that’s different from the status quo, how?
Yes, but A) Anyone can get a living will NOW, no ObamaCare required, B) How many seniors enter long-term vegetative states before passing and C) How long could you keep a bureaucracy from going “Well, everyone gets a DNR now.” when faced with rising costs.
Techie on August 9, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Dorian Grey & True King – “This is how the Holocaust started” yes yes emphatically yes. When coverage is denied there is going to be an appeals board — in other words a death board, so of course Sarah Palin is right.
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Are people really so simple to think that whatever this bill sets up is all that will become of the new government health institution? Anyone using their noggin realizes it’ll run out of money in a few years, and cost-cutting procedures will be put in place so Obama doesn’t stay up at night worrying about the deficit and very soon there will be death boards. Moreso 50 years down the line, pregnancy may be allowed only when licensed, otherwise you have to pay for it privately. The point is, once it’s in place — THEY CAN DO ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DO, and by then it’ll be in the hands of an executive office full of bureaucrats, who I’m sure will have no hesitation to consider their empathy standard (liking lunatic liberals, hating conservatives with inexplicable rage) in making these decisions.
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Wasn’t the whole impetus (from the Democrats perspective) for health care reform that the insurance companies were rationing care — denying preexisting conditions and using loopholes to deny coverage otherwise. So how on earth is it reform if the government takes over and not only does the same thing but escalates it????
Simona on August 9, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Agreed. But if it walks like a duck, quacks likes a duck…
Why oh why can’t our government answer these questions regarding this health bill? Rather than discuss these concerns, they label us “mobs”, “nazis” and “brownshirts”. WTF, I ask?
Annietxgrl on August 9, 2009 at 12:40 PM
He calls these comments fishy and has reported them to flag@whitehouse.gov…..
doriangrey on August 9, 2009 at 12:41 PM
It’s clear you’re too far off the lunatic fringe for me to attempt to reason with, so let me try this another way:
You, doriangrey, have obviously discovered the root of Obama’s secret plans. No doubt through the White House snitch line, Obama’s goons are already on to you. Remember, the Nazis went after political opponents first! For your sake, I highly advise going into hiding ASAP. Also, don’t bring your computer, because they can get you through the computer. Unfortunately, you’re going to have to log off HotAir and will no longer be able to comment. We’ll do our best to survive without you, and will occasionally ask ourselves “But what would an insane paranoid person think about this?” just so we can get a feel for what you might have said, had you not been bravely hiding for your life.
e-pirate on August 9, 2009 at 12:41 PM
I don’t understand why we need sec. 1233. We already have a system in place in which doctors give information to paitients who want to have DNR’s, living will’s, and durible medical power’s of attorney. Why do we need to do this every five years? If a person agrees with it let them fill out the paper work. If not when the time comes and if the patient is really in that bad of shape families can make a decision to remove them from life support. Though the latter can really make a mess.
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:42 PM
That Python clip is perfect….
Thing is – it will probably come true!!!!
Obama is trying to make-over America into a 15th Century Feudal System…
What’s next? Shipping all the white folks off in slave ships back to Europe?
izoneguy on August 9, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Oh goodie, goodie, I’m on the list again!
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Well, for one thing I can no longer choose to tell the doctor to shut the hell up when he starts talking about the wonderfulness and sheer delight of hospice care. Also, I no longer have the option of choosing a doctor who won’t try selling me on early check-out from life to save ObamaCare a few bucks. I’d start with that, and work my way out from there.
Ed Morrissey on August 9, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Brilliant use of the MP skit, lol. One of my faves, and amazingly appropo.
“I don’t want to go on the cart!”
Midas on August 9, 2009 at 12:44 PM
This article, posted from “The Lancet” describes the system under which Obama’s health-care system would allocate medical resources.
How likely is it you’re already too old for medical help? Check the graph that plots your age against the probability you’ll get treatment.
petefrt on August 9, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Good point. It’s a non issue so why does Obamacare want to push it so hard?
Blake on August 9, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I bet there were a lot of Germans like you in the late 1930′s. People who couldn’t see the danger of the line thier country was walking and just couldn’t believe things like that could happen in their country. History repeats itself because mankind is too ingnorant to learn from it.
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Says Ed the Racist, as he buttons up his crisp Brook Brothers dress shirt.
blatantblue on August 9, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I don’t understand why one Congressman won’t stand up and say “Shread this bill” forget reading it: it should be torn up and recycled into the bin of bad ideas…..
OK conservatives – when you come back from break – stand on the steps of the Capitol with hundreds of paper cutters and cut HR 3200 to shreads….
The people don’t want it!!
Hands off my healthcare!!!!
izoneguy on August 9, 2009 at 12:45 PM
So, when the “death panel” decides that the couples little girl is too sick/mentally challenged to continue medical care, do they then force them to use her for medical experiments to “help society” before she’s terminated?
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:47 PM
all of this is only creating the perfect storm for another timothy mcveigh. trust me!
Ghoul aid on August 9, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Now, if you say “FU! I want to live forever so give me every treatment you got!” they are going to honor it? Nope. They want you to agree to being denied healthcare to make it easier on the Death Panels.
Blake on August 9, 2009 at 12:47 PM
My family recently had to do the latter. My cousin died at only 44. There was no way he could recover his liver was shot because he was an alcoholic. His wife didn’t need the government to tell her what to do. She made that decision with her doctor. American’s are capable of taking care of themselves. We don’t need the government to do it for us.
I predict happiness in the future of the American people if they can keep the government from wasting their labors under the pretense of taking care of them
-Thomas Jefferson
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Another ? I have regarding this bill, if anyone can answer this: what’s with the “basic (70/30)”, “enhanced (85/15)”, and “premium (95/5)” plans? What will these plans cost? What are the copays, if any, for office care? Is there a deductible for hospital and emergency room care? Currently my employer shares the premium cost with me. Will the government share the premium cost? Or does my family make too much money to qualify for “credits”? See…we CAN discuss this, but rather than answer our questions the government lies and tells us to shut up already.
Annietxgrl on August 9, 2009 at 12:49 PM
So on Labor Day, will the telethon that raises money for “Jerry’s Kids” now be an Obama fund raiser since no money is needed for terminated handicapped kids.
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Health Care reform IS desirable, so that preexisting conditions are covered, companies don’t have monopolies (you take whatever your job offers), and people paying out of pocket aren’t essentially paying a huge penalty for not being insured. McCain’s pre-election plan to allow insurance companies to operate across state lines was a great idea and method for introducing competition into this market.
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Here’s the rub: The government will now be the “evil” HMO. This isn’t reform, this is simply an opportunity to get at 20% of the economy. Its a hostile takeover, plain and simple. Once they’re in they will make the problem they are claiming justifies their actions — denial of care — much worse; biased bureaucrats will be making the hard decisions, and they’ll be pushing the culture of death at first, then requiring it. This is evil incarnate, and I commend every single one of you that has actively protested its arrival. God bless you, together we will overcome.
Simona on August 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM
So Ed, let me ask a question. When you disagree with the prescribed course of treatment you have the right to appeal right? And that appeal will undoubtedly be before a panel of government folks or folks paid by the government. Who do you think their loyalties lie with? How do you think they will judge your case 90% of the time?
Why is it wrong to call this a “death panel”?
conservnut on August 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM
You know why.
Blake on August 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Depends cost money. Send him to the Death Panel!
Blake on August 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJnoBbueEc0
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Something on the Boss’s blog made me think of the Bobby McFerrin tune “Don’t Worry, Be Happy.” I thought maybe Obamacare could use a theme song. See what you think.
Here’s a little song that Raumbo wrote
You might want to sing it note for note
Don’t Worry — Die Happy
In every life we need some healthcare
But don’t expect help from Obamacare
Don’t Worry — Die Happy
Ain’t got no place to get some meds,
Death Panels came and denied a bed
Don’t Worry, Die Happy
The Death Panels say you do not rate,
you won’t be able to litigate
Don’t Worry — Die Happy
Ain’t got no doc, ain’t got no clout,
ain’t got no pol to help you out
Don’t Worry — Die Happy
Cause when you worry your face will frown
But Dems will want to put you down
Don’t Worry — Die Happy
BuckeyeSam on August 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Just about everyone agrees that Obamacare will devolve into a single payer system.
But you’re nuts if you think that “a requirement for end-of-life planning” will devolve into a denial of care ie a death panel.
Seems some folks need a little more courage to face the plain facts. For a little help, check out what Obama’s science czar is all about:
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/
then tell me about giving Obama the benefit of the doubt.
Rebar on August 9, 2009 at 12:54 PM
When Grandma gets too old, she’s shipped off to the Mengele Memorial Home For The Elderly.
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:54 PM
I have a rare blood disease and once didn’t agree with the course of treatment my doctor wanted to give me. I appealed by firing him and getting another doctor who did treat me properly. I likely won’t be able to do that under Obamacare. Instead I would have just died. I’m alive because I was able to make my own decisions about my care.
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 12:54 PM
LOL…Come on, you’d be DEAD before they even got around to you.
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 12:56 PM
This is how the Holocaust started, the allegories between 2009 America and 1939 Germany just keep getting more and more frightening. We need no longer ask why the German people followed Adolph Hitler, but instead ask why did we.
doriangrey on August 9, 2009 at 12:22 PM
The only differenc is Hitler built his military up. Obama is tearing his down
unseen on August 9, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Under the rules of statutory interpretation, “shall” means mandatory.
Blake on August 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM
You are a perfect poster child for what this argument is all about. I bet you really worry about Obama’s Death Care bill and what it would mean to your situation.
Best Wishes.
conservnut on August 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM
oh them second opinions for surgery, cost to much no can do. I just going to Luv obamacare /sarc
djohn669 on August 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Old people mentally and physically handicap people young and old and all the rest of dregs of society have a duty to just die and get out of the way.You think this is far fetched.Then just pass this bold new so called health care for all bill and see how long it is before we enter (1984) and a brave new world.GOD stop and help us before it,s to late.
thmcbb on August 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM
William Ayer’s started Obama’s career in politics, William Ayer’s also asserted that 25 million Americans would need to be eliminated to get America to accept socialism.
doriangrey on August 9, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Next up is the “board of incineration/gassing”.
This is basically a plan to eliminate the elderly because they are a burden on the utopian society dominated by the young.
quax1 on August 9, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Which both sides would gladly hang.
Limerick on August 9, 2009 at 1:02 PM
These issues are none of government’s fricking business. In fact, they aren’t the business of a treating facility in that most states likely prohibit facilities from requiring patients to have a living will, DNR, or other advanced directive in place to be admitted and none of those documents will be valid if a required witness is an employee of the facility.
Don’t get me wrong. EOL planning is extraordinarily important. If the government wants to fund a program for televised PSAs, fine. But why create a bureaucracy staffed by a bunch of fat-a** AFSCME members to administer a program that provides doctors with financial incentives to hot box the elderly. These decisions are for the patient, the doctor, the patient’s estate planner, and the patient’s family. PERIOD. No governmental involvement.
BuckeyeSam on August 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM
But you already said a living will is a good idea, and that you yourself have one. That conversation would be like:
Doctor: Ed, I think you should consider having a living will.
Ed: I already have one.
Doctor: Great. Moving on, here’s your prescription, etc etc.
And you know perfectly well the intent is to consul people regarding “extraordinary measures” when they are terminal, not ship off grandma to the gas chamber anytime she comes down with the sniffles.
But of course, posting that wouldn’t rile up the natives and lead to OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE, would it?
e-pirate on August 9, 2009 at 1:06 PM
This comes from the same ideological group that is against providing information to women before having an abortion..because the woman may be swayed to choose life…thats weird.
Itchee Dryback on August 9, 2009 at 1:06 PM
I love the Obama cameo at the end of the clip…No ‘sh*t on him’…
JIMV on August 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Your snark aside, the point is that the choice about whether to initiate a discussion with a doctor about a living will, or a DNR order, or hospice care, etc., should be with the patient. It should not be mandated by the government. The doctor-patient relationship is hardly one of equal power. The doctor is an authority figure. Patients, especially those who are old, sick, frightened, and/or not able to reason as sharply as they once did, are vulnerable to being pressured into agreeing to things they do not truly want (or even understand).
Surely even a fool like you can comprehend the dangers inherent in this situation.
AZCoyote on August 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Well it looks like you are willing to bet your grandma on it. I’m not.
Limerick on August 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Clarifying question: I’m not sure if this has been answered earlier in the thread, but why would doctors have a profit motive to send patients to hospice or plug-pulling?
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Wouldn’t the patient make a little more money for the system alive?
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Just had to ask this – I’m not very well versed on the vagaries of end-of-life decisions.
Black Yoshi on August 9, 2009 at 1:08 PM
e
There is already federal law encouraging doctors to have this converstaion. It’s how they ended up with pamphlets to give to people with serious illnesses. There is not need for sec. 1233 except for more government interfernece and to talk to those who aren’t ill and the only reason they are encouraging it is because they are getting old.
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 1:08 PM
America will be increasingly influenced by the old as the baby boomers retire and spend their wealth on assisted living facilities and life-extending pharmaceuticals. They’ll likely spend their children’s inheritance on their last years for reasons similar to those that have caused them to run up the national debt to support a lifetime of consumption.
dedalus on August 9, 2009 at 1:09 PM
The doctors get a little bonus money for having these discussions with patients. They don’t get that now. They just get a pamphlet to hand out to the patient.
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 1:09 PM
The USA dies:
Diagnosis: Obama’s Healthcare Bills “cause and effects”.
bucko36 on August 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Interesting article from MM today on those death panels today.
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/09/death-panels-what-death-panels-oh-those-death-panels/
kcarpenter on August 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Never once thought that old Monty Python skit:
“Bring out your dead.”
“Wait a minute, I’m not dead yet.”
“I’m getting better.”
Would ever approach reality.
Now, I am not so certain.
coldwarrior on August 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM
All you need to know about “Health Care” and the Democrats from their “mentor”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYP-T7J4OOw
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 1:12 PM
Ya, when I have to have my panhematin treatments it costs nearly $7,000 a whack. Can you believe my evil, greedy insurance company pays the whole bill?
boomer on August 9, 2009 at 1:12 PM
Limerick on August 9, 2009 at 1:02 PM
and which only one side is creating!
Ghoul aid on August 9, 2009 at 1:12 PM
That was the OLD system……Sorry
Jeff from WI on August 9, 2009 at 1:16 PM
We’d be fools to ignore the dangers inherent in a government take over of life and death decisions.
Peter Singer, the esteemed “ethicist” from Princeton supports infanticide and “involuntary euthanasia” for some disabled and elderly. He wrote a July 2009 NYT article on the necessity for healthcare rationing. In his “Practical Ethics” he writes:
There are “civilized” European countries that practice euthanasia– voluntary and otherwise– today. Why wouldn’t we be worried about beginning our legislative march towards the same practices? Oregon will pay for assisted suicide for the patients to whom it refuses cancer treatment. The US is already a country that terminates the lives of unborn children who have Down Syndrome, cleft palates or other imperfections.
Going after granny is a logical progression for those who increasingly appear to be our totalitarian overlords.
obladioblada on August 9, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Oh Ed. Don’t you know the left are never going to like you?
Death Panel.
Death Panel.
Death Panel.
portlandon on August 9, 2009 at 1:23 PM
You think people hate their HMO or the like when a treatment gets turned down.
Imagine the wrath that will turned on the government when the Feds deny those treatments.
Techie on August 9, 2009 at 1:25 PM
Socialists don’t care about individuals. They invariably put people in categories and pander to groups because groups are easier to manage and because they are often sources of money and political clout. Come and line up to get your Obama caps. One size fits all, even if the heads need to be beveled first.
whitetop on August 9, 2009 at 1:25 PM
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