National Guard not advertising for political-dissent internment camps

posted at 9:15 am on August 8, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

One would think that the negative coverage of just about every phase of the Iraq War would have taught people about the many specialties of the US military, but especially about training for detention and stockade duty.  However, we have received an eruption of e-mail over a completely innocuous job listing from the National Guard which proves that a few people pay more attention to conspiracy theories than to facts.  The catalyst for the inbox paranoia came from a Monster.com listing to recruit for a 31E Internment/Resettlement Specialist:

Internment / Resettlement Specialists in the Army are primarily responsible for day-to-day operations in a military confinement/correctional facility or detention/internment facility. Internment / Resettlement Specialists provide rehabilitative, health, welfare, and security to US military prisoners within a confinement or correctional facility; provide custody, control, supervision and security to internees within a detention/internment facility; conduct inspections; prepare written reports; coordinate activities of prisoners/internees and staff personnel.

Some of your duties as an Internment / Resettlement Specialist may include:

  • Assisting with supervision and management of confinement and detention operations
  • Providing internal or external security to confinement/corrections facilities or detention/internment facilities
  • Providing custody, control, supervision and escort to all security levels of U.S. military prisoners or internees/detainees
  • Counseling and guidance to individual prisoners within a rehabilitative program
  • Preparing or reviewing reports and records of prisoners/internees and programs

Why does the Guard need these positions filled?  It may have escaped notice, but we sent a lot of National Guard units into combat areas of Iraq as we stretched to meet the personnel needs of occupation.  They took both combat and support roles for regular Army and Marine units in Iraq, and part of that effort involved holding detainees captured by combat troops.  The need for disciplined training in this particular specialty became painfully and publicly clear after Abu Ghraib (although that involved the 372nd Military Police Company of the Army).  The need for relocation efforts comes from any war situation where civilians get displaced en masse, as well as peacekeeping efforts in post-war situations.

Whenever and wherever Guard units get deployed, some of them have to be trained in handling prisoners.  That job requires specialists with specific training and discipline for the job.  The Guard advertises for those positions presumably because they figure that training and experience could be attractive to people who want to be law-enforcement officers (just as MP service in the other branches is), or who perhaps already are in law enforcement and want to serve their country in the discipline they know.

It’s not really a great mystery, nor is it a conspiracy to set up camps for political dissenters.  It’s a good job for people who want to serve the cause of liberty and freedom, and those who volunteer deserve our respect for choosing what’s usually a pretty thankless job even without the paranoid overtones.

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Comment pages: 1 2

katy on August 8, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Stop saying things worthy of ridicule and you will not be ridiculed.

Squid Shark on August 8, 2009 at 11:26 AM

Squid Shark on August 8, 2009 at 11:26 AM

Just presenting the facts ma’am.

katy on August 8, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Squid Shark on August 8, 2009 at 11:23 AM

The same internet and the blogosphere also broke new ground when we debunked the Bush-Air Guard “memos” that the MSM called “fake but accurate” even after they were proven to be complete fabrications.

If there was no internet and “paranoid delusions” of the blogosphere at the time those same “memos” would now be enshrined in the National Archives among our Founding Documents and other written treasures, and taught as fact in our schools.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:28 AM

For those worried about the military coming in and rounding people up here at home, who here thinks the military would follow that order? I tend to think there’d be a borderline coup if such an order was given.

Yakko77 on August 8, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Obama is the Master of Unthinkable Acts

faraway on August 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM

Protip: Print out this thread so you’ll have something to read on the “Special Excursion Train” to the government’s “Obamacare Health Screening Camp”.

Terry_Dyne on August 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM

Yakko77 on August 8, 2009 at 11:30 AM

WARNING: Inflamatory reference follows.

Think Waco…the US Military was involved.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:32 AM

Terry_Dyne on August 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM

All reading material will be confiscated as we board that train.

We will, however, be issued proper reading material.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:34 AM

Yakko77 on August 8, 2009 at 11:30 AM

There are questions that come to mind about this.

How many NG are up to date on the subversive activities of the Obama Admin?

How many of those would have the courage to object to orders?

How much time and how many peoples lives would have to be risked before the reservist would see what was really happening if it were a nefarious mission?

katy on August 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Blind faith–it’s what’s for dinner.

hillbillyjim on August 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM

katy on August 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Young men and women, 18-21, educated in our public schools…

Saying “no!” to an illegal order will be the exception, not the rule.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Obama would never ask citizens to snitch on other citizens.

Obama would never say the nation’s police forces were “acting stupidly”.

Obama would never sneak in socialized medicine for all citizens to replace the perfectly good private insurance we already have.

faraway on August 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM

coldwarrior:

Axelrod (Chicago) Cookie Recipes: fishy @ wh.gov, wh blog you tube videos, wh blog commenters, cars.gov, mix into bowl, add off-the-self datamining sw. Bake for a few minutes!

End result: 2009 version of Nixon’s hit list and “our side” list… Yes, very scary

luckybogey on August 8, 2009 at 11:43 AM

WARNING: Inflamatory reference follows.

Think Waco…the US Military was involved.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:32 AM

So the concern then becomes on how the govt will spin it to make the order seem lawful. The Waco debacle was one giant lie from start to finish as to why they were there and how they handled it during and after. Janet Reno wanted to put on a show (even had media lined up from far and wide) instead of just arresting the leader (David Koresh) when he was outside the compound. The guns the Branch Davidians had were legally owned IIRC so there was no need for ATF if it was just about the child abuse allegations (FBI perhaps? Or just local law enforcement should’ve been all that was required for such an arrest?). Carrying out such an act against a isolated “cult” is one thing, doing such a thing to an entire nation is another… I hope.

I still remember my oath of enlistment and I would hope the vast majority of those still serving do as well and would never follow such an unlawful order regarding rounding up dissenters.

Yakko77 on August 8, 2009 at 11:44 AM

Yakko77 on August 8, 2009 at 11:44 AM

I have great faith in members of our armed forces…had dinner last night with a small group of young Marines,most first term enlistees.

But, at the same time, I am mindful of the men and women of the 372nd MP Company…and they alleged they were following orders…and we got the whole Abu Ghraib disgrace.

We, you and me, all of us, owe it to our kids, cousins, nieces and nephews in uniform to get it right on this end so they never have to be placed in a position to possibly get it wrong on their end.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:48 AM

One man’s dissenter is another man’s freedom fighter.

faraway on August 8, 2009 at 11:49 AM

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Amen to that.

Yakko77 on August 8, 2009 at 11:50 AM

So the concern then becomes on how the govt will spin it to make the order seem lawful

Yes

I still remember my oath of enlistment and I would hope the vast majority of those still serving do as well and would never follow such an unlawful order regarding rounding up dissenters.

I believe that. But it wouldn’t be cast that way – it’s in terms of a higher morality (as with the waco or the mormon fringe group). It would never be cast as do this against the bor.

Spirit of 1776 on August 8, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Well that’s not what I was expecting to see when I woke up this morning.

Literally half of Wisconsin is currently deployed (largest mobilization since WWII) and one of their main job responsibilities is manning detention facilities. A 31E is simply an offshoot of a 31B (military police) MOS.

BadgerHawk on August 8, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Spirit of 1776 on August 8, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Not that I’m connected this job ap to those events.

Spirit of 1776 on August 8, 2009 at 11:57 AM

Chris Matthews was on last night to promote the “fact” that 45-65% of the townhall mob were racists. Doesn’t take much from there to stretch to the need for re-education camps.

Matthews is the main anchor for the NBC News organization.

faraway on August 8, 2009 at 12:00 PM

BadgerHawk on August 8, 2009 at 11:54 AM

The redeployment you mention is not as disturbing as this

Personal info stolen…all on a single laptop. The possibility of all sorts of nefarious results is endless.

It is that old “we know who you are and where you live, where you work” thing that is worrisome, if this info gets into the hands of those who would use it for such purposes.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Mark Levin on Bills Ayers and the 25 million Americans Ayers said must be executed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9peonVh26A
Obama and his plans for a civilian security force as strong as the military.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
Obama launches his political career out of Ayers living room.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/04/finally_the_media_discovers_ob.html
Obama logo and Weather Underground logo.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194703.php
Obama salute and Hitler salute.
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/09/obama_salute_go.html
Michele Bachmann Warns of “Re-Education Camps”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a1S-ToTwOA&feature=related
Obama campaigns for Odinga in Kenya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEZKIBZ_Vpo&feature=related

JellyToast on August 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Obama promised to get all our of troops out of Iraq pronto.

The message is being massaged to have Obama now wanting to get our combat troops out of Iraq. To be massaged to indicate Active Duty combat troops. To be followed by non-essential reserve forces. To be followed by the deployment of National Guard troops to engage in merely civilian-related operations in Iraq.

Does anyone know under which walnut shell the pea is now hidden? Gotta watch those hands as Obama moves and switches those shells on the table in front of you. Gotta watch real close, too.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Young men and women, 18-21, educated in our public schools…

Saying “no!” to an illegal order will be the exception, not the rule.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM

But so many of those young men and women are taught great values at home, and led by really great NCO’s. I have faith that the backbone of our fighting forces will lead them in the right direction.

mauioriginal on August 8, 2009 at 12:26 PM

National Guard had plans to train house to house searches for guns,, until it became headlines.
http://carrollspaper.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=7451&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=&S=1

The primary phase will be done Saturday, April 4, when convoys will be deployed from Carroll to Arcadia. Pictures of the arms dealer will be shown in Arcadia, and soldiers will go door to door asking if residents have seen the suspect.

Soldiers will knock only at households that have agreed to participate in the drill, Kots noted.

“Once credible intelligence has been gathered,” said Kots, “portions of the town will be road-blocked and more in-depth searches of homes and vehicles will be conducted in accordance with the residents’ wishes.

“One of the techniques we use in today’s political environment is cordon and knock,” Kots explained. “We ask for the head of the household, get permission to search, then have them open doors and cupboards. The homeowner maintains control. We peer over their shoulder, and the soldier uses the homeowner’s body language and position to protect him.”

I liked the part at the end where the soldier was to train by standing behind the home owner and use the home owner’s body for his own protection.
Nothing suspicious going on here. Go back to sleep.

JellyToast on August 8, 2009 at 12:27 PM

I don’t expect the fascist in chief to attempt anything like this until it become painfully clear that he’s not going to get to be president for life.

Then we can expect all hell to break loose, and then we’ll have to look to our military to protect us from our own government.

Spiritk9 on August 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM

mauioriginal on August 8, 2009 at 12:26 PM

I do hope you are 100% right.

It is my opinion that most of our young men and women in uniform do have that strength of character, otherwise why would they have enlisted in the first place? There are a lot of parents who over recent years got it right…thank God for them. [Mine just started his second enlistment. US Narines.]

But, not all of them are altar boys…and having been through it, an armload of stripes standing in your face and the “voice of god” telling you in not so polite terms what you will do…not a good thought.

Hope it never ever comes to this.

Which is why WE have to keep at it, work our butts off and out fingers to the bone to get it right here, on our end, and now.

The old 1960′s poster, “Question Authority” needs to be brought back with a whole new meaning, because it is bit by bit being changed to “Do Not Question Authority” by this Administration.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 12:36 PM

US Narines?

Should be, obviously, US Marines.

I bought beer after dinner with the guys last night. I maybe shudda stuck to ice tea, myself. :-)

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 12:40 PM

if anyone else were in the wh id say this is nothing. With hussein in power nothing is too far fetched.

angryed on August 8, 2009 at 12:52 PM

The sad thing is that while the internet has been a wonderful tool to gather information and shrink our world, it has also provided and endless string of miscellaney to fuel the paranoid delusions of conspiracy nuts.

Squid Shark on August 8, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Yeah, Chimpy’s ANG service comes to mind.

Oh, wait, that’s right-the mainstream media actually RAN with that story. They didn’t consider it “paranoid delusion”, because it was all about a Rethuglican who couldn’t speak in public.

Del Dolemonte on August 8, 2009 at 12:53 PM

And it looks like our troops might double in Afg. so I’m sure they are going to be needed over there as well.

Ozprey on August 8, 2009 at 12:54 PM

Del Dolemonte on August 8, 2009 at 12:53 PM

What the Media runs with and does not run with is not an indicator of the reliability of a claim.

Squid Shark on August 8, 2009 at 12:56 PM

So Ed posts a story explaining why nothing nefarious is going on regarding this National Guard job classification and discouraging paranoia…

And the thread devolves into complete and total paranoia anyway.

Awesome. I love it when Hot Air is crazier that Glocktalk.com.

Dukeboy01 on August 8, 2009 at 1:26 PM

And the thread devolves into complete and total paranoia anyway.

Awesome. I love it when Hot Air is crazier that Glocktalk.com.

Dukeboy01 on August 8, 2009 at 1:26 PM

A week ago, paranoia would have been saying Obama would start a snitch program.

Then you would have been really crazy if you said the media wouldn’t be concerned.

faraway on August 8, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Since when are people displaced by hurricanes prisoners of the US military?

When the military prevents them from walking out of the Superdome, and goes door to door to gather their registered firearms.

Nobody “signed up” to do those missions, did they?

We’re not crazy for distrusting the civilians whom the military obeys.

Chris_Balsz on August 8, 2009 at 1:43 PM

The thing is we have an administration that is openly antagonistic against us (beyond what I would consider “normal” politics), and one that I’m 99% sure are Communists or a derivative thereof, and have an agenda that again does not seem to be normal.

Toss in Rahm Emanuels’ statement about some kind of Civil Defense Force to be stronger than the U.S. military and I believe it to be a well-founded paranoia.

Some could say, “Well, they wouldn’t be so open about this if this was what they were up to.” But, as many of the talking heads on TV have pointed out, The One has not really hidden his agenda at all except maybe the particulars on several issues.

This report in itself is no big deal in my book.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 8, 2009 at 1:56 PM

They should probably rename the position to “Military Police Officer” or “Military Corrections Officer” or something.

CP on August 8, 2009 at 2:07 PM

To those claiming that U.S. soldiers would not fire on U.S. citizens, I say it’s all about properly framing an incident.

Imagine thousands of union thugs attacking a large group of, at the time, peaceful protesters. I guarantee you that tempers are hot enough and after a few innocents get hurt the MEN and WOMEN in the crowd will begin to defend themselves and take it to the thugs. What ensues will be called “RIOTOUS” behavior. If the crowd is large enough and there’s enough thugs and it goes on long enough (easily staged/allowed by holding off the police/gas/water cannon), the police will be unable to restore order and the NG will be called in. The troops will be told they are there to return order to the streets and will have no qualms about following those orders. Their ROE will most likely have a “deadly force authorized in situations of armed resistance” clause. Armed resistance can include any number of things besides firearms.

It only takes a very few “plants” in the crowd and a large turnout of union thugs for this scenario to be orchestrated by an outside source. (if you think I’m paranoid, then you’re not paying attention).

NOW what do you think about how likely it is the U.S. soldiers would fire on/detain/imprison U.S. citizens?

jcw46 on August 8, 2009 at 2:08 PM

First off National Guard troops should not be called to duty to serve in foreign wars. The are called “National Guard” for a reason. To supplement active duty and reservists with Guardsmen is a disgrace.
Secondly, following this logic, why would the “National Guard” need internment officers? I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I am pointing out the obvious.
If we need more active duty and reservists then we ought to recruit more active duty and reservists. I am tired of the mis-use of National defense forces.
The National Guard would be better suited deployed along the U.S. border performing their defined role.

paulsur on August 8, 2009 at 2:43 PM

>>First off National Guard troops should not be called to duty to serve in foreign wars. The are called “National Guard” for a reason. To supplement active duty and reservists with Guardsmen is a disgrace.
Secondly, following this logic, why would the “National Guard” need internment officers? I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I am pointing out the obvious.
If we need more active duty and reservists then we ought to recruit more active duty and reservists. I am tired of the mis-use of National defense forces.<>The National Guard would be better suited deployed along the U.S. border performing their defined role.<<

THAT seems self-evident.

Chris_Balsz on August 8, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Perhaps the most transparent government evah should drop us, you know, the ordinary citizens, a clue as to what theater of operations we are going to send our men and women to?

There is indeed something “fishy” about the timing of this recruiting announcement.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 9:31 AM

You will know what theater of operations is involved soon enough. Do not concern yourself with transparency as you will not have any windows in your cell, transparent nor opaque.

DasObamaReich on August 8, 2009 at 2:59 PM

I lost my little speech on the history of the Dick Act.

But look it up, the bulk of US armed forces fighting in Cuba, Mexico, the Phillipines and Canada were state militias. It’s the transport needs of industrial warfare that mandated a National Guard. California Guardsmen can use rifle ammo from Ohio or Florida–it doesn’t matter, they all have the same gear. They learned that one the hard way in Cuba 1898.

Chris_Balsz on August 8, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Liam on August 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Many of us have taken the pledge, they would have to shoot me before I every fired on a U.S. Citizen.

Squid Shark on August 8, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Same here and if the O and his folks think that the US military would stand by any such acts, they may have start to believe their own advertising.

El Coqui on August 8, 2009 at 3:11 PM

The ONLY part of this whole thing that makes my blood run cold is the word “resettlement.”
There was another group of people involved in “resettlement” and I think we know how well that turned out for people like me.

mjk on August 8, 2009 at 9:42 AM

Whether all this is innocent, sinister or a case of the army’s right hand not knowing what it’s left hand is doing someone sure is a klutz at choice of language. Before OIF was called OIF, it was to be called Operation Iraqi Liberation, until someone noticed that would come out OIL. That someone would not have noticed that the choice of words being used would sound like what your refer to is astounding.

Luka on August 8, 2009 at 3:12 PM

Your not paranoid if someone REALLY IS out to get you. This administration, and their cohorts in the MSM have not been terribly subtle about their desire to shut up opposition. Not been subtle about characterizing any and all dissent as based in bigotry and hatred.

As mentioned before, there was some SERIOUS violations of civil rights following Katrina. Firearms were illegally, and apologetically confiscated from law abiding citizens. People were forcibly relocated “for their own safety”. This was just the aftermath of a natural disaster. Most of those gun owners never had their guns returned, and to my knowledge no one ever faced charges in those illegal confiscations, nor were any apologies offered.

Should “revolution” break out, the media will have already done a sufficient job painting it all as illegal and hate based that most people will go along with the crushing of any resistance, by any means.

flyfishingdad on August 8, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Come on, think about it – who is the National Guard? They’re part-time soldiers who are closely integrated with their own civillian neighborhoods, because most of the time being a civillian is exactly what they do. There is no concievable way that the NatGuard would be trusted to not turn on whoever gave such an asinine order, to suppress dissent in a military manner. Indeed, I’d expect that whoever gave such an order would meet with a “training accident” before they even left the base. In short, if The Won decided to shut down dissent in this nation, he wouldn’t trust the NatGuard to do the rounding up – they’d be the first ones he’d have to detain!

No, it’s pretty obvious that they’re trolling for NatGuard members who are police and corrections officers to apply their expertise in Iraq and Afghanistan, looking for real volunteers to look after prisoners in the operations theaters instead of assigning regular infantry “volunteers” who would bring with them all manner of training, professionalism, and morale problems (they’re troops. If they wanted to be cops, they’d have joined the police. But if you happen to have NatGuard troops who happen to be police… two birds, one stone). This is what you might call “military intelligence in action,” and as it goes it looks pretty intelligent.

Blacksmith on August 8, 2009 at 4:32 PM

Most of those gun owners never had their guns returned, and to my knowledge no one ever faced charges in those illegal confiscations, nor were any apologies offered.
flyfishingdad on August 8, 2009 at 3:20 PM

I remember that. Many of those seized guns were family heirlooms passed down through generations. Shameful.

Ozprey on August 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM

However, we have received an eruption of e-mail over a completely innocuous job listing from the National Guard which proves that a fewlot of people here pay more attention to conspiracy theories than to facts.

FIFY

And the nut job theorists’ here about health care reform.

Bill Blizzard on August 8, 2009 at 4:38 PM

Does the job description mention being stationed in Mena, Arkansas??

TugboatPhil on August 8, 2009 at 5:01 PM

And the nut job theorists’ here about health care reform.

No kidding. I can’t believe people compare what Obama said before the election, and now, and then reference the bill.

They are crazy.

Spirit of 1776 on August 8, 2009 at 5:04 PM

It is that old “we know who you are and where you live, where you work” thing that is worrisome, if this info gets into the hands of those who would use it for such purposes.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM

The Man in charge of safeguarding that data should be no less than shot.

Chaz706 on August 8, 2009 at 5:39 PM

Oh boy. I understand being careful, but this is simply looking for a support MOS that resides primarily in the Guard and Reserve. Most of our support functions do, and have done so for quite some time now. The Active Components keep the bulk of the combat power and quick need type units.
These folks are for places like BAF, or smaller sites like FOB Salerno, etc., or for future use – we learned you can’t go into a big op like OIF shorthanded in any MP MOS. We are correcting that now – not planning to lock you all up.

BTW – CA folks are not preferred for a domestic emergency. That is not their training or use. And their numbers are still too small for overseas use. God knows when I was TF Eagle’s S-5 in 2004-2005, I could have used a few of ‘em. But the PRTs had them all tied up.

LTC John on August 8, 2009 at 5:50 PM

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-clinton-africa7-2009aug07,0,5499475.story

Next possible overseas mission?

journeyintothewhirlwind on August 8, 2009 at 8:55 PM

WARNING: Inflamatory reference follows.

Think Waco…the US Military was involved.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 11:32 AM

I don’t know about everyone else, but the truth is not inflammatory to me.

Dark-Star on August 8, 2009 at 8:57 PM

Clinton is the highest-ranking U.S. official to hold a one-on-one meeting with the head of Somalia’s 5-year-old transitional government. The meeting was part of a new approach by the Obama administration to restore formal diplomatic ties with Somalia and take a more active role in assisting the U.N.-recognized government.

Though the United States’ humanitarian aid to Somalia has been substantial in recent years, including funding most of an African peacekeeping force there, until recently most of its assistance was funneled through the United Nations or African Union.

In addition to the meeting with Clinton, which Somali officials said would give Ahmed a much-needed political boost, the Obama administration has sent 40 tons of weapons and munitions to his government this year. The U.S. is also providing military training to government soldiers and has donated more than $1 million in direct assistance, officials said.

journeyintothewhirlwind on August 8, 2009 at 8:57 PM

journeyintothewhirlwind on August 8, 2009 at 8:57 PM

What ever happened to that “we don’t meddle” meme?

I found this “interesting.” Somalia the new Afghanistan?

And they howled when “BushHitler” invaded liberated Iraq instead of keeping his eye on the ball…Afghanistan.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 9:03 PM

HR 645 the National Emergency Centers Establishment Act is a proposed bill in the U.S. House of Representatives that would authorize FEMA to build no less than six National Emergency Centers throughout the U.S. on closed or open military facilities. These facilities are to be designed to house large numbers of people. Why would emergency centers need to be built on closed or open military facilities unless there was a need to keep people from coming in and out of them?

Canada Free Press

Akzed on August 8, 2009 at 9:03 PM

Obama is talking with Canadian and Mexican leaders this week.

There is something being staged.

katy on August 8, 2009 at 9:12 PM

That should have been in quotes since it is taken from the article. Sorry.

journeyintothewhirlwind on August 8, 2009 at 9:13 PM

There is only one US Army confinement facility in Europe, at Coleman Barracks, in Mannheim, and is run by the 21st US Army Support Command and is staffed by members of the 9th MP detachment…active duty…not reserve, nor National Guard. So augmentation of the MCF at Coleman Barracks isn’t where these 31 Echo’s wil be headed.

In the Far East, there are two, Camp Hansen on Okinawa has a “brig” used for holding members of all services pending transit to the states or having sentences less than a year…it is an active duty US Marine facility. No Army reserve nor national Guard assigned. Similarly, at Camp Humphreys, Korea, the Army maintains a small confinement facility…active duty assigned.

The United States Disciplinary Barracks, Fort Leavenworth, Leavenworth, Kansas, is the military “big house.” Active duty posting….active duty confinement specialists.

On-post Army confinement facilities at Forts Lewis, Carson, Knox, and Sill, primarily for active duty soldiers awaiting trial or being held prior to transit to Leavenworth, or serving sentences of lass than a year. Active duty personnel assigned.

Where are Army National Guard 31 Echos assigned?

Trying to find just a few answers.

coldwarrior on August 8, 2009 at 9:19 PM

“we don’t meddle” also effected by expiration date itis of O.

It is funny that our President, who seems to have it out for the Brits for their ruling Kenya 50 years ago, wants to be involved (send troops ???) into another African nation, that already showed its non appreciation of us.

Also, I do have wonders about troop ad and what it might mean. The only way US troops would do this is if O finds a way to screen each soldier and only picks those who have resentment towards conservatives and their beliefs. I don’t know how that would happen without a huge warning flag going up by an officer who sees a directive etc unless O appoints a Czar over some section of the military and runs it from there. Since it is going out on a NG site- that hasn’t happened yet. But it is comforting to know that you are watching the sit. Keep track of the Tsars and if they overlap any normal military functions.

journeyintothewhirlwind on August 8, 2009 at 9:27 PM

Get a grip people!! Sending Little Johnny off to Basic Training and then on to “military confinement/correctional facility or detention/internment facility” training is not going to turn him into a brain dead robot that will mindlessly start scooping up and detaining people for speaking out against the President…of either party.

I am retired military (1967-1989) and I know that military people are just like everyone else. They don’t like and will not support the military, be it active, reserve or National Guard to suppress any group in the United States.

I am pretty sure that ANY attempt to do so would be greeted with derision and disobedience from everyone from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to the newest recruit. The vast majority of service members would refuse to carry out any such orders and those that tried would be stopped by their Commanders, NCO’s and fellow service members.

Unlike Academia the military does not see itself as having the right to dictate political views.

Our oaths are to “Protect and Defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic”. We will carry that out!

schmuck281 on August 9, 2009 at 12:13 AM

Oh Come on Ed, you’re no fun.

:)

Sapwolf on August 9, 2009 at 2:07 AM

schmuck281 on August 9, 2009 at 12:13 AM

I wish I had your firm confidence on this one.

But, General Wesley Clark was involved at Waco. Over the years we have had a number of senior officers who played on the other side of the fence for personal gain. Had more than a few who made a fortune by merely looking the other way when articles of the UCMJ were violated.

And I have seen more than a few personally who have taken that same Oath I did and went about breaking it at every opportunity. Scroll down the roster at Leavenworth, given the chance, should it ever present itself, and you will indeed find a good number over the years who did time breaking rocks at Sherman Army Airfield who took that same Oath.

No, I do not believe the entire US military would blindly follow an illegal order en masse. But, I can no more guarantee that all individual officers (and NCO’s) given the proper incentive would refuse to carry out that illegal order than I can guarantee that I will be alive in 25 years.

Eternal vigilance…it is more than a slogan. As I said earlier today(yesterday?), we owe our men and women in uniform our best efforts to get it right on this end so they will never ever have to be put in a position to possibly get it wrong on their end.

coldwarrior on August 9, 2009 at 2:11 AM

Sooo, what? By that “logic”, I guess I was supposed to be part of the military’s organization that will replace civilian police forces and impose martial law?:

-Law enforcement patrolling by car, boat, bicycle, and on foot

-Interview witnesses, victims and suspects in the course of investigating crimes

-Crime scene security and processing

-Evidence and fingerprint collection

-Arrest and charge criminal suspects

-Military Police working dog handler

-Testify in court

-Enforce traffic regulations and guarding entrances to military facilities

MP, dudes.

These asinine attacks have got to stop.

I’m alreay on the outs with a friend, because she said she didn’t want to see “The Hurt Locker”, due to not wanting to see the “slaughter of innocent civilians” by our forces. To prove she was right that the Army and Marines spend their days killing and wounding innocent civilians, she proceeded to text message me links to far, far left, thoroughly debunked websites depicting thoroughly debunked fatality estimates (like: http://www.thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/march2003/kewearchive_march30april4_2003.html).

Virus-X on August 9, 2009 at 3:55 AM

You have seen the sneaky, vile tactics employed by this administration, Ed. You know that this behavior begets at least some level of doubt about anything the government does. Yes, some people read too much into that ad. You could be respectful of some level of fear among people that is honestly earned. No, I guess you can’t.

SKYFOX on August 9, 2009 at 8:28 AM

Well, after hours of looking over available information I think I have figured it out.

They are going to Gitmo!

There is a junior enlisted shortage of 31 Echos projected at Gitmo.

Raw data is located in this document, the most recent US Army summary of projected shortage MOS’s. If you are not familiar with this sort of thing, call one of your friends who is in the Army or who has recently left the Army, to assist your reading the data. Nothing is spelled out all in one sentence. Have to put different parts together to get the whole picture.

This is a PDF document.

But the Army bases its selective reenlistment bonuses [SRB’s} by MOS, and by rank. We have plenty of 31E’s at the senior NCO level. Less than we need at the junior enlisted level.

Buried in the data is the notation 31E Guantanamo.

So, I feel releived that we are not looking at camps in the desert for disenters.

But, contrary, it seems, to Obama’s statements that Gitmo will close by year’s end, the Army is actively seeking personnel and new enlistees to fill 31E slots at Gitmo.

Why stage a recruitment/MOS change effort to fill slots and shortages a year out when that facility is being closed by year’s end by Presidential Executive Order?

This is a whole new subject to look into.

coldwarrior on August 9, 2009 at 10:03 AM

coldwarrior on August 9, 2009 at 10:03 AM

CW, Whatever info you come up with and it if it begins to stink, please pass your info on to Beck. Here is a tweet from him yesterday and he sems to think otherwise.

DO NOT PLAY INTO THE HANDS OF LEFT: http://bit.ly/15e6oN THESE ARE OVERSEAS CAMPS. THIS I S N O T for domestic use.
about 11 hours ago from web

If he were given a nugget of credible info he may look into it because like all of Obama’s plans…. the more sunlight the more they squirm.

katy on August 9, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Cold Warrior, What do you think of this group?

http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/

Veterans.

OATH KEEPERS: ORDERS WE WILL NOT OBEY

Click text above to read full length version.

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances

katy on August 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM

CW,

Oathkeepers new site… sorry ’bout that.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

katy on August 9, 2009 at 11:00 AM

katy on August 9, 2009 at 11:00 AM

We have a Second Amendment because we need to protect the First Amendment.

The only problem I have with Oathkeepers is that it involves active duty members…and I’ve always had a problem with any sort of politicization of our essential national services.

In the wrong hands, with the wrong guidance, Oathkeepers could be paving the way for less-informed service members and citizens to act irresponsibly. Bad acts for all the right reasons are still bad acts.

But, in these times, joining together for common cause, to protect and defend the Constitution of these United States, seems worthy enough.

Perhaps Oathkeepers should put some solid effort into education on those most fundamental principles from which this nation was born. We should look to being more focused on positive steps instead of reactionary steps (as you outlined above.) A well-informed citizenry is the best weapon we can have to prevent the wholesale or piecemeal destruction of our Constitution and Nation from within.

coldwarrior on August 9, 2009 at 11:12 AM

katy on August 9, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Katy, real men do not tweet nor twitter. :-)

Send it on to Back…anything to prevent Glenn from being left out on the bitter end of a rope helps. He has a lot of good sound ideas…but it is those times when he steps way out on the yardarm that allows detractors to write him off as a loon.

Send it to him…and ask that he get a military type or two to provide some background as well.

coldwarrior on August 9, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Katy, real men do not tweet nor twitter. :-)

coldwarrior on August 9, 2009 at 11:15 AM

hee hee…
I will send it on.

katy on August 9, 2009 at 11:25 AM

katy on August 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM

I am a member and so are alot of other Guardsmen and Reservists.

Squid Shark on August 9, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Squid Shark on August 9, 2009 at 12:12 PM

What is the percentage of G’s and R’s that are members or would tack right on this issue if push came to shove?

katy on August 9, 2009 at 12:21 PM

I think there are a hell of a lot of people here at HotAir who are going to be surprised driving home from work one day and seeing a guard shack at the entrance to their subdivisions, manned by two sweaty ObamaThugs named Leon & Lester, who are going to be sticking their hand out, asking to see their papers.

If this current administration and congress have proven one thing to me over the last seven months, it is that they are not to be trusted, period.

If you haven’t yet figured that out, then you haven’t been paying attention to what has really been going on.

You can call me a conspiracy kook, a right-wing nut, kool-aid drinker, or a dirty, rotten son-of-a-bitch, but I firmly believe the people now in power intend to not only stifle dissent, but go after the dissenters themselves.

Man’s natural state since the beginning of recorded history is to exist in tyranny. Free Republics such as ours come along very rarely, and even when they do, they have an average life span of approximately 200 years.

We are now in our 233rd year of existence.

Don’t tell me that it can’t happen here.

This may be something to be concerned about, or maybe it isn’t, but our Imperial Federal Government has essentially acquired the power of life and death over each and every one of us.

Power like that must be watched damn closely, particularly given that individual freedoms and liberties aren’t exactly high on the list with the people now in charge of this country.

Dave R. on August 9, 2009 at 7:47 PM

Dave R. on August 9, 2009 at 7:47 PM

+1

katy on August 9, 2009 at 9:03 PM

For those of you wondering why the NGB would post a 31E job on Monster.com. Try searching for other military occupation specialties (MOS titles) at the same site. Virtually every entry level MOS (Skill level 10) is listed as a job on Monster.com.

Secondly, as to why the Army (Active, Reserve, National Guard) would need additional 31E Soldiers; remember that Soldiers are constantly being promoted. Skill level 20 begins at E5/SGT, the Soldier (in this case the 31E) is no longer a skill level 10 (entry level) Soldier. The Army will always have a requirement to fill those entry level positions.

Finally, how many of you are aware that on February 6, 2007, President Bush and Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced the creation of U.S. Africa Command. Recent history in Africa suggests that there will be a need for internment specialists in the near future. The creation of AFRICOM further suggests operations specifically targeted to the region.

There is nothing sinister about the Monster.com job posting.

Hogman on August 9, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Hogman on August 9, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Am quite familiar with AFRICOM…and the idea for the same has been around since the early 90′s. It had been strictly a CENTCOM AO, CENTCOM taking the mission from USEUCOM, where it resided since the 1970′s.

But, if you look at Army TO&E’s and allocation of MOS’s, no, there is nothing “sinister” about replenishment of the 31Echo line…until you ask yourself, why the need to expand/replenish an MOS line when, (a) we are cutting back across the board on defense spending and we are engaged in a contraction of military programs across the board as well; (b) we are pulling out of Iraq, and no longer have cognizance for military-run prisons or detention centers in Iraq; (c) the detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay are to be shut down entirely by 20 January 2010, as directed under Executive order; and (e) if we recruit as a new enlistee, one 31E designee, it will take two months for Basic training, two to four months AIT, add to that the usual deployment/assignment time, unit acquisition and such, it will be nearly a year before these newly recruited 31Echos arrive on site and ready to do their thing.

Gitmo will be closed by then, we will not have any role for 31E’s in Iraq. The two previous major assignments in the Army after 9-11 for 31E’s.

Pull up the latest SRB matrix.

Then pull up info on DoD projected cutbacks, emphasis on Army programs.

The army is well into re-allignment, changing the focus from divisional organization to specialized independent brigades and brigade combat teams. Even Seventh Army out in Europe is soon to become merely a support command, it is just about a corp these days, programmed to shrink even more. Even the Seventh Army shoulder patch (7 Steps to Hell) has been shrunk in size by a third.

Eighth Army out in Korea is actually well less than a corps, approaching a light division in size, and may be departing Korea once US-NK direct talks are underway, and the UN mandate for our being there is ended.

The National Guard likewise is slated to shrink, and undergo re-alignment, and this is already in progress, as the total army re-alignment continues.

With all this contraction seems that the need for more of the support positions, such as 31E’s could be filled by active duty troops, and civilian contractors, as DoD has announced from time to time recently, versus trying to build up National Guard and Reserve detention/corrections/resettlement specialists, since the several Army run detention facilities are presently quite small, (with the exception of Leavenworth) and if the pattern continues, Mannheim and Camp Casey will most liekly no longer be needed.

Now, for expanded roles for 31E’s in facilities not designed to hold US Army prisoners…the question is, where is our next expansion of mission headed, and what is projected that requires more facilities and manning for the handling of non-US Army prisoners?

Obama, if you have been listening, does not want us to be going around the world using military force to solve problems. He also wants us out of Iraq and Afghanistan pronto. Thus, why the advertising for recruits for National Guard MOS’s, when we are supposed to be using smart diplomacy and not brute military force abroad?

There is a disconnect here.

I’d like to find out what the overall game plan is.

coldwarrior on August 10, 2009 at 12:03 AM

I understand that the military will always need a wide variation of job skills in their wide-ranging mission. When there is shown to be a small number of actual military detention facilities world-wide, you would logically think that there would be enough regular military personnel to staff them, without needing National Guard to supplement.

Check this video and ask yourself, “Why all the crowd-control-related renovations to a derelict AMTRAK railroad-car-rebuilding facility?”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

Search further for more of the same stuff, it’s out there. Separate the commenters’ opinions from facts if you must, but most of the facts and pictures do not support “warm-and-fuzzy”, government-trusting conclusions.

SteelGuy on August 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Thus, why the advertising for recruits for National Guard MOS’s, when we are supposed to be using smart diplomacy and not brute military force abroad?

As part of the re-allignment (divisional organization –> specialized independent brigades and brigade combat teams) the Army decided that Field Artilery (FA) was not needed as much as in previous conflicts. Several FA units were converted en masse to MP units. The DOD and by definition the Army realized that there is a future need for FA units and are in the process of converting the units back to FA.

Did you happen to do a search on Monster.com?

Count the number of Army National Guard job listings. Look at the job title. It’s easy to build a scenario wherein a General Construction Equipment Operator, in conjunction with Truck Drivers, Plumbers, Electricians, Carpenters, Masons, and Concrete and Ashpalt workers are really building the detention/internment facilities so that the National Guard “Police Officers” can stand guard over dissidents.

The easier explanation is the one I first listed. These are all entry level positions. Something to realize is that the National Guard works for the Governor. The President can try to nationalize the force and the Govenor can say no. Remember, National Guardsmen are a local force. The rank structure and personal relationships are very ‘good ol’ boy’ in nature.

Hogman on August 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM

rob verdi 9:44

al-Maliki refurbishes and renames the prison and insists on maintaining it in use because there is a need for the prison.

Obama HAS GITMO already in perfect condition, no need to refurbish, and demands it to be closed BECAUSE there is a need for that prison.

maverick muse on August 13, 2009 at 12:00 PM

The President can try to nationalize the force and the Govenor can say no. Remember, National Guardsmen are a local force.

Hogman on August 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Yes, that was then. And the old system served American citizens very well.

But now, don’t overlook the strings attached to Stimulus and the Executive Order federal powers of martial law that will bypass Constitutional norm and obliterate states’ rights.

Epidemics and even natural disasters are too easily manufactured for profit and power. It takes an Alinsky acolyte to turn that observation into a charge AS IF I just wrote that all epidemics and natural disasters are manufactured for profit and power.

The concerns expressed by Keemo and coldwarrior et.al. do not presume that the questionable military guard advertisement is ONLY to collect and train a force that could be used by sinister authoritarians. Legitimate concerns should not be misstated by anyone with integrity in order to absolutely dismiss the reality of possible future abuse coming down the line.

When the Department of Homeland Security ignores its original target and instead aims its focus on conservative Americans, leave it to Ed Morrissey to see no possible problems. Birds of a feather join the Olbermann admiration club. Observe HotAir labeling legitimate concern as radical paranoia to an Alinsky tune.

maverick muse on August 13, 2009 at 12:29 PM

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