Daniel Hannan on ObamaCare: Are you people insane?
posted at 9:22 pm on August 7, 2009 by Allahpundit
A desperate intervention from a man who’s already seen this car crash up close, wondering why any free people would tolerate it short of a major war forcing them to. The words of one of the world’s most eloquent conservatives need no elaboration from me, but as companion reading to Beck’s point about how lame the arguments are for this boondoggle, try Ramesh Ponnuru’s piece on the paradoxes of ObamaCare in Time. Quote:
There are two basic points about health-care reform that President Obama wants to convey. The first is that, as he put it in an ABC special in June, “the status quo is untenable.” Our health-care system is rife with “skewed incentives.” It gives us “a whole bunch of care” that “may not be making us healthier.” It generates too many specialists and not enough primary-care physicians. It is “bankrupting families,” “bankrupting businesses” and “bankrupting our government at the state and federal level. So we know things are going to have to change.”
Obama’s second major point is that–to quote from the same broadcast–”if you are happy with your plan and you are happy with your doctor, then we don’t want you to have to change … So what we’re saying is, If you are happy with your plan and your doctor, you stick with it.”
So the system is an unsustainable disaster, but you can keep your piece of it if you want. And the Democrats wonder why selling health-care reform to the public has been so hard?
Exit question: How do we get Hannan to run for office here? Seriously.
Blowback
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Holy shyte. What a frightening vid.
I fear for my country. :_(
RedNewEnglander on August 7, 2009 at 10:06 PM
I had an old aquaintance surprise me yesterday when she voted in a Facebook poll that she doesn’t want the government running health care. I think more and more people are becoming wise to the real change that this administration and congress are offering.
On the other hand there are the koolaid drinkers. They will never sway. Companies or employerers are always evil for getting a bigger profit than you.
Then there are our representatives. Some are figuring it out. I think my own rep in MD, Kratovil, is seeing the light. But others are career politicians or non-admitting idealists that know better than the rest of us commoners.
I think this is good for the country.
shick on August 7, 2009 at 10:07 PM
My parents grew up in the Depression, and were in the arts, and were still Conservative. My mother said that the indigent would come to the kitchen door and my grandmother would always give them whatever food she was able. My mother’s parents, grandmother, two uncles and their families all lived in the house. My grandfather was a blue collar worker at Westinghouse. I think they would rather have died than lived off the government.
PoodleSkirt on August 7, 2009 at 10:08 PM
One of his greatest hits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
Jeff from WI on August 7, 2009 at 10:08 PM
We need him in Britain to bring them back to the right.
mph on August 7, 2009 at 10:08 PM
First, if it’s a joke, don’t get too serious. Look, what he is saying is that America has a great political foundation and their health care sucks and it creates a voting class (third largest employer) that assures it’s own continuation.
So what if he blasts the Iraq War tomorrow. That doesn’t negate his views here or his experience on the topic. Give him his due.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:09 PM
My dear Terry: This is an issue of mathematics:
100 times better or 1 million times better than zero is still zero.
But, yes, I would take McCain any day over Obama. God help us, I’d take Biden over Obama. However, I will never stoop so low to take Pelosi over Obama. I draw the line there.
Loxodonta on August 7, 2009 at 10:09 PM
keep the change on August 7, 2009 at 9:54 PM
You are right, I forgot about his “you can’t throw that away, it’s perfectly good to eat” mentality. He won’t listen to me at all.
gina4 on August 7, 2009 at 10:10 PM
I’ll give his due but for someone reason I don’t trust him. Maybe I’m a xenophobe :)
terryannonline on August 7, 2009 at 10:13 PM
Thanks for the links. Why would this “Conservative” (British) support someone like Obama? Even if McCain is the other option. At the very least he could’ve abstained on principle. He isn’t a U.S. citizen anyway.
Need to know more about him. I’m a little hesitant when Conservatives go ga-ga over someone like Hannah at face value.
conservative pilgrim on August 7, 2009 at 10:14 PM
Yeah, he’s saying the right things right now, on Beck’s show…but I agree with terryannonline…there is something really wrong with a guy who ‘can’t disown Obama’, but seemingly opposes everything he stands for…at least in public…and keeps associating himself, voluntarily, with Ron Paul…yes, even Ron Paul is right about some things (well, I can count them with 2 fingers)…but he’s so wrong about so much else, it cancels it all out. Hannan is eloquent, but something stinks about this guy.
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:15 PM
That’s fine. I don’t mean to jump on you, but Reagan took his allies where he could find them. And on this issue he is articulate and experienced.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Wasn’t Cameron going ga-ga over Teh O?
Upstater85 on August 7, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Careful now. Big Sister Linda Douglass is watching at flag@whitehouse.gov. You don’t want to have an SEIU Truth Squad show up at your front door……
djm1992 on August 7, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Why would any elected official in a non-executive capacity disown an executive of an allied state?
I don’t object to him associating himself with Ron Paul because to an outsider RP is probably something entirely different in appearance to insiders.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:18 PM
I wasn’t sure of his position of our endeavor overseas but the link basically sums it up. Hannan writes:
We are a bunch of imperialists!
terryannonline on August 7, 2009 at 10:19 PM
Good one. Ya got me.
Lanceman on August 7, 2009 at 10:19 PM
McCain supports Obama too.
fossten on August 7, 2009 at 10:19 PM
He can’t do that as a supporter of David Cameron. Someone on Fox should ask Hannan what he and his party will do to reverse socialism in Britain once in office. The answer, sadly, is nothing at all.
aengus on August 7, 2009 at 10:19 PM
The date on disowning Obama is March 22nd, 2009.
INC on August 7, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Ron Paul is a Truther, and if not then he’s a tool of the Truthers at best.
Also doesn’t see Iran’s getting the bomb as a big deal.
- The Cat
MirCat on August 7, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Step 1: Get him on The Late Late show with Craig Ferguson
Step 2: Ferguson talks to him about being an American now
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Delicious Cake
- The Cat
MirCat on August 7, 2009 at 10:23 PM
He supported Obama during the general election…against McCain…before he was elected…the before he was ‘the executive’.
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:23 PM
I mostly dislike Ron Paul because of his isolationism but just reminded me of another reason why I don’t like him…he’s a Truther.
terryannonline on August 7, 2009 at 10:24 PM
That would be a nice chunk of new employees for unions, becoming clearer.
WoosterOh on August 7, 2009 at 10:26 PM
He seems to have issues with Israel as well…
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:26 PM
Sorry, who’s Cameron?
conservative pilgrim on August 7, 2009 at 10:26 PM
Two points.
1 – Imperial is not a dirty word in Britain, like it has been made here in US. So don’t assume a coached insult in that.
2 – That is a critical statement of opinion. Does it have some validity? Are we overextended with our forces? It’s not a bad thing to take stock of a situation. And a warning isn’t a statement of ideology even.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:27 PM
If we win Congress in 2010, they can make him a citizen, if he’d want to come over. Then its just residency requirements wherever he sinks roots.
Iblis on August 7, 2009 at 10:27 PM
Ah.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:27 PM
Uhhhh..have you run that by a brit lately?
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:28 PM
Sorry.
Future Thatcher? Eh… :/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron
Upstater85 on August 7, 2009 at 10:28 PM
The phenomenon of conservative libertarians and other supposedly intelligent free market anti-state types expressing support for Obama is something I will never understand as long as I live. How can anyone in their right mind support free markets and nanny state liberalism at the same time? It makes no sense at all. It’s like witnessing the laws of physics break down right before your eyes.
The only way I can cope with it is by imagining that they’re either suffering from a very real bout of mental illness which has temporarily disabled their critical faculties, or that it’s an act of self defense, something they can refer to in the future should anyone accuse them of racism for attacking Obama (look, I’m not racist, I’ve given the man credit in the past, etc)…
Either that or they have been so overwhelmingly misinformed about Obama’s past that they were actually inclined to believe the horse sh*t he spewed during the campaign (which of course accounts for most of the Obama vote).
But Hannan is right about socialized health care. I grew up in Britain and the stories he tells are genuine. I’ve said it before, but I had skin cancer diagnosed here in America and was told have the surgery within 6 weeks max for 95% chance of survival. The NHS back home told me I’d wait 12 weeks plus for surgery. So I could save money by drastically reducing my chance of survival. God knows how I would have felt if I didn’t have the choice. And after extensive experience with socialized medicine throughout my life, I was completely and utterly blown away by the quality of American hospitals. What we have here is modern, advanced health care. To socialize it would be a crime.
Sharke on August 7, 2009 at 10:29 PM
I’m not hating on England, sorry.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:32 PM
I watch his rip on Gordon Brown in the EU parliment at least once a week.
If ever there was a classic this was it.
Drop his name in the youtube search function. It will be the first video up.
Jim708 on August 7, 2009 at 10:33 PM
DOn’t like this guy.
He doesn’t like Palin.
He can’t disown Obama.
He likes Ron Paul.’
Enough said.
promachus on August 7, 2009 at 10:34 PM
I’m not asking you to…just asked a question.
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:34 PM
So when Democrats say we need to cut the military budget and get out Iraq because we are overextended they are right? I might as well be a Democrat if I believed that.
terryannonline on August 7, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Brother, you just ain’t whistling Dixie!
Should be QOTD for a year.
Hog Wild on August 7, 2009 at 10:34 PM
he’d bring us his beloved icelandic model: what could go wrong?
got fooled by the oxford accent…?
sesquipedalian on August 7, 2009 at 10:37 PM
Thanks. Quite a resume.
It’s a sad state of affairs when Brits are one of the main voices (not this guy, but Hannan) to speak clarity and push-back against what the Democrats are doing in our country.
conservative pilgrim on August 7, 2009 at 10:40 PM
No, because that is an issue of values. ie if the left says it’s too expensive, their values are wrong – we can cut in plenty of places to make the money. For example, Obama cut the f22 but dumps cash into stimulus (so-called). We are in Iraq, we must win.
That is a separate issue from ‘are we at a point we need to take care with what we do’. People on the right always are concerned about that. I am. I am concerned about our troops having to extended tours, etc. That does not make me anti national-security nor does it mean I think the US is imperialist.
I think British pride is still alive. Maybe dimmed, but when Thatcher order the invasion, the nation rallied to the idea that the UK still was a power of an imperial nature.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:42 PM
Over in headlines the thread ‘Ron Paul and the dangers of isolationism’ mentions Paul Kennedy – the Yale academic who originally coined the term “imperial overstretch”.
aengus on August 7, 2009 at 10:43 PM
You don’t think that….but how do you know that Hannan doesn’t think that?
terryannonline on August 7, 2009 at 10:43 PM
Maybe true…20 years ago…we (and Britain) live in a new age now. Yeah, I’m sure some Brits are still on the right side of things…but they managed to keep Labour in power for so long, who knows…like Hannan, it’s hard to read these days. I think they lost it the day Maggie left office. Certainly the British “Conservative Party” did…they supported Kerry against Bush…sorry, no links necessary…it’s common knowlege.
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:48 PM
I don’t believe that for the same reason I don’t believe it true in America. Look at what grassroots have arisen from 1) shamnesty bill 2) health care bill. Without those two events one would have to conclude the people here have repudiate Reagan.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:52 PM
I found THIS just now, interesting read.
WoosterOh on August 7, 2009 at 10:52 PM
Staggering that the UK’s National Health Service is the world’s 3rd largest employer!
This takeover MUST FAIL.
Buckeye Babe on August 7, 2009 at 10:52 PM
Love the AllahP, but that was one of his all-time dumbest exits.
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:52 PM
Have you had any problems with a Canadian being the governor of one of our fine states?
Cindy Munford on August 7, 2009 at 10:53 PM
None of that is the issue…of course I don’t disagree with you there…the question is about Hannan…there we disagree.
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Huh?
terryannonline on August 7, 2009 at 10:54 PM
Or a Mann that speaks Austrian? ;)
Upstater85 on August 7, 2009 at 10:55 PM
I don’t. But if I look at his words through Ron Paul’s rhetoric (he uses ‘imperial’ as an insult – which shows his ignorance – he pretends to like Jefferson and it was Jefferson who said America was an empire of liberty), then I would conclude he is against a strong American foreign policy. But I have no reason to believe that without using that prism.
Besides, he (Hannan) said the world owes a debt to the US for the exportation of it’s values. Heard RPaul drop that line before? Me either.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:55 PM
A country does not change overnight. Thatcher is in fact the direct cause of many of the problems Britain has today and proof positive that a neo-liberal economic policy by itself is basically destructive of a society without other aspects of conservatism to balance it.
aengus on August 7, 2009 at 10:57 PM
Okay, well I like his argument on health care. I don’t have any reason to think negative of him, but hell I liked Sanford, so you know how it goes.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 10:57 PM
I care about 863 times more about hers than yours. If you’re taking dislike of Ron Paul and countering it with a personal attack, your opinion means little.
MadisonConservative on August 7, 2009 at 10:57 PM
Well, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on that point.
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 10:58 PM
Raoul Castro isn’t crazy – a shortage of toilet paper has awakened common sense:
I have a nightmare vision – 20 years from now Cuba becomes a shining star of capitalism, and America descends into socialistic oblivion.
fred5678 on August 7, 2009 at 10:58 PM
Why don’t you just lay it out on the table and measure.
Save time.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 11:00 PM
Jennifer Mulhern Granholm (born February 5, 1959) is a Canadian-born American politician, former Attorney General of Michigan, and the current Governor of the U.S. state of Michigan.
Cindy Munford on August 7, 2009 at 11:00 PM
Well, no worries…I’m sure you and I agree on most things regarding the overall situation in this country. I was just clarifying my opinions about this particular individual as you were. But this is really a sideshow to the real events…on that, we are 100% in line.
AUINSC on August 7, 2009 at 11:01 PM
Charming, but wrong.
MadisonConservative on August 7, 2009 at 11:01 PM
Fair enough.
aengus on August 7, 2009 at 11:01 PM
I hear Michigan is doing fabulous!
/sarc
terryannonline on August 7, 2009 at 11:01 PM
Oh dear, do you mean Jenny in Meecheegan? The poor winter- water-wonderland is choking from the damage that nincompoop has caused. When, I wonder, will people learn?
redwhiteblue on August 7, 2009 at 11:01 PM
How could I forget??? And both of them have done such bang up jobs in their respective states that may be a better argument of terryann to use.
Cindy Munford on August 7, 2009 at 11:02 PM
At least that would sove Florida’s illegal immigration problem…there’s always a silver lining. :/
aengus on August 7, 2009 at 11:03 PM
Cindy Munford on August 7, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Sadly, British pride was exhausted by the seventies, with the collapse of their various export-producing industries. It didn’t help that folks like the National Front came along, seized on what patriotism was left, and linked it with anti-immigrant nationalism, which the even-more-left-than-MSNBC British media lapped up in heaping gulps. They still regularly try to paint the Conservatives over there as being emissaries of the leftover NF(note: I didn’t say skinheads, because the original skinheads weren’t neo-nazis).
MadisonConservative on August 7, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Since it the downward spiral didn’t start with her, my guess will be that they will never learn.
SORRY!
Cindy Munford on August 7, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Prosthetic?
Look, TA is usually sweet, but often an emotional thinker. That’s not an insult, but she doesn’t always think through her positions. Which is fine, too, it’s why I engage her occasionally, so I can try to make a logical progression in my own mind and then present it. But to devalue someone else while elevating her is wrong.
McCain was a Constitutional disaster. Paul has done less damage then McCain. Maybe he is crazier, but less impact. Neither of the two need you or I jumping in and saying their opinion is irrelevant unless we are adding to the subject matter.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 11:06 PM
Odd coincidence then, that Dearborn is the Islamic capital of the US. Obviously, it was becoming that way before Jenny showed up, but considering what Canadian conservatives have gone through…
MadisonConservative on August 7, 2009 at 11:06 PM
What is the problem with teh NF? I’m not defending them, that’s just a question of ignorance. Being anti-immigrant (I am not) is not a crime. All nations should be self-determining.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 11:08 PM
She had an opinion. fossten responded by insulting her. I defended her, because I’ve seen TA be civil 99% of the time, and fossten be that way far less.
By the way, I agree. I actually do like Ron Paul quite a bit, even though his non-interventionist(read: protectionist) views on foreign policy trouble me, because I think he’s trying to apply strategy developed for the world 200 years ago to an entirely different world today. I’d love to see him placed in a position where he has far greater control over domestic policy. An article once made the argument that the presidency should be divided into two positions, that handle foreign and domestic policy separately. I like the idea, though it’s as unfeasible as Ron Paul getting the GOP nom.
What do you think of the idea? I’ll see if I can find the article.
MadisonConservative on August 7, 2009 at 11:11 PM
In fairness to him though, if there had been neoconservatives 200 years ago wouldn’t they be insisting that America become heavily involved in the Napeolonic wars and accuse anyone who disagreed of being isolationists who were foolishly oblivious to the global Bonapartist threat.
aengus on August 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM
No, you didn’t defend her, you insulted fossten. You are a big player here, I just think you are better then that.
Roman censors? I’m not in favor of it, because I don’t see any need. The staffs as they are right now are more then capable.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM
It depends if they’re DaUpers or Trolls (Michigan Trolls)
redwhiteblue on August 7, 2009 at 11:01 PM
Jeff from WI on August 7, 2009 at 11:17 PM
Can you define who you mean by this?
If France crashed a fire ship into NY harbor and killed 3000 citizens, I bet they would have been concerned about the Bonapartist threat.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 11:17 PM
I don’t know what to think of Michigan. Statistically speaking I wonder how much “welfare” that state receives. As for Granholm, I thought I was giving terryann more ammunition about crazy foreigners running for office here.
Cindy Munford on August 7, 2009 at 11:18 PM
The National Front associated itself with the pseudo-skinheads(the criminal ones) the way that the Democratic Party associates itself with ACORN. That primarily took place in the late 70s, early 80s, when the combination of high unemployment and punk attitudes, mixed with more than a bit of irateness over the Falklands conflict, made it rather easy for a group like the National Front to come to prominence. They made a number of issues of the immigrant population.
I know, the first thing that comes to your mind is the modern Islamic population, but they were still new. The primary focus was on the Indian and Sri Lankan people, many of whom came to Britain when India declared independence. They rejected non-white members for years(and many actually tried to join), until the mid-90s when they transformed into the British National Party, the modern version of the National Front. The National Front actually still exists, with something like 100 or so members left in the country.
If the Conservative Party of the UK could be compared to the Republican Party(not entirely accurate, but useful enough for the comparison), then the National Front was the “independent” party with David Duke as the candidate. Nick Griffin is effectively the British David Duke, a fine combination of White supremacist and anti-semite.
MadisonConservative on August 7, 2009 at 11:21 PM
I see, I see. Thanks for the taking the time to explain that. The BNP I’ve heard of.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM
Not really. I told him I valued her opinion quite a bit, and his far less. It’s true, just as I value your opinion far more than his.
MadisonConservative on August 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM
I retract.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 11:25 PM
The Neoconservative Persuasion
I don’t think events have to be exactly parallel in order to make my point. It could have been argued that if France conquered Russia, Britain and the German states the US would be a sitting duck. The case for interventionism could have been argued for 200 years ago. The world has not changed that much.
aengus on August 7, 2009 at 11:25 PM
It’s okay…I still haven’t figured out how to use the blue link button and I have no idea what Close Tags is for! My heart breaks for my childhood State. I left in the early 80′s – seeking a refuge from the union mentality that seems to have permanently crippled a beautiful State. I know things are very bad now, but the Jiminey Carter years were truly devastating. Governor Jenny is just another layer of the disease. Tragic.
redwhiteblue on August 7, 2009 at 11:27 PM
My brother-in-law is a former U.K citizen. Trust me, it is much harder for someone from Britain to become an U.S.A. citizen than it is for someone from Mexico.
HellCat on August 7, 2009 at 11:31 PM
Oddly enough, I have wished that Gov. Romney could go there and fix them instead of running for President again. I know he can’t just bounce around being the governor of multiple states but he has history there. They so desperately need someone to help and he seems like the only normal person they might trust. That’s how I would fix that problem if only someone would let me be in charge.
Cindy Munford on August 7, 2009 at 11:32 PM
Thanks for the link.
Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2009 at 11:32 PM
It’s also a lot harder to become one of our “undocumented workers” for a Brit than it is for a Mexican.
MadisonConservative on August 7, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Ha, love that! For the rest of America…Michigan Trolls live “under” (south of) the Mackinac Bridge. I think DaUpers are pretty solidly to the right because it’s all about hunting and being seriously independent. Also think that plenty of small business owners Up North (Trolls living above Clare) stay pretty red on the voting map. But one look at the UAW areas…and blue wipes common sense off the map!
redwhiteblue on August 7, 2009 at 11:39 PM
PoodleSkirt on August 7, 2009 at 10:08 PM
I grew up in the depression and my story is almost the same as PoodleSkirt. My old man couldn’t stand FDR, hated government run B.S like WPA and NRA and all the other stuff. Never looked to the government for jacks–t.
Herb on August 7, 2009 at 11:50 PM
It depends if they’re DaUpers or Trolls (Michigan Trolls)
Jeff from WI on August 7, 2009 at 11:17 PM
Exactly right, oh and Trolls are Lions fans, DaUpers are Packer fans.
Jeff from WI on August 7, 2009 at 11:53 PM
From what I’ve read on HA, you should be in charge! Go girl.
Some of my Dem. friends in Michigan said that they would have voted for Mitt had he made it in November. I remember meeting his father on a field trip to Lansing…he was an honorable man. I love your idea of Mitt governing Michigan back to life, but…que sera sera.
redwhiteblue on August 7, 2009 at 11:53 PM
The Lions have fans??
redwhiteblue on August 7, 2009 at 11:55 PM
Actually the alternate spelling is Da Yoopers
“Their national anthem”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb9yhhflmvY
Jeff from WI on August 7, 2009 at 11:56 PM
Oh no, he’d close our bases?!?!? The Horror! LOL
The Dean on August 7, 2009 at 11:56 PM
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