Questions for your health care townhall meeting: Sec. 401

posted at 9:29 am on August 6, 2009 by King Banaian

Please read my note at bottom if you are using these at a townhall:
Today’s edition relates to the individual mandate for you to carry health insurance as of Jan. 1, 2013, which is in Section 401 of H.R. 3200.

In General- Subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new part:

Subpart a. tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
‘Subpart A–Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage

‘Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

Sec. 59b. tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

‘(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of–
‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
‘(b) Limitations-
‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM-
‘(A) IN GENERAL- The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.
‘(B) APPLICABLE NATIONAL AVERAGE PREMIUM-
‘(i) IN GENERAL- For purposes of subparagraph (A), the ‘applicable national average premium’ means, with respect to any taxable year, the average premium (as determined by the Secretary, in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner) for self-only coverage under a basic plan which is offered in a Health Insurance Exchange for the calendar year in which such taxable year begins.
‘(ii) FAILURE TO PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR MORE THAN ONE INDIVIDUAL- In the case of any taxpayer who fails to meet the requirements of subsection (e) with respect to more than one individual during the taxable year, clause (i) shall be applied by substituting ‘family coverage’ for ‘self-only coverage’.
2) PRORATION FOR PART YEAR FAILURES- The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of tax so imposed (determined without regard to this paragraph and after application of paragraph (1)) as–
‘(A) the aggregate periods during such taxable year for which such individual failed to meet the requirements of subsection (d), bears to
‘(B) the entire taxable year.

I could quote more, but if you are preparing for this you should read the section link above. Here are questions for your congressperson or Senator regarding Sec. 401.

  1. If my adult child is a dependent of mine, am I required under HR 3200 to buy insurance for her or him?
  2. If I become unemployed at any time during a year, am I required to get a qualified plan or enter a government plan to avoid this tax? (It appears this proration clause I ended on does impose that requirement. If someone can find a place where it says you’re not taxed, please point me in the right direction.)
  3. If I am a millionaire and I choose to self-insure, am I required to pay both the 2.5% tax (which, you will note, is capped at average insurance premiums as determined by your Health Choice Commissioner) and the 5.4% surcharge in Sec. 441?  Do you have an estimate of the amount of legal tax avoidance that will occur if you raise taxes by that amount?
  4. Who is required to document that I have the appropriate coverage?  (This will be a test of whether they read 401.  It’s up to the Treasury Secretary.  Follow the link for the exact language.)  Doesn’t this increase in paperwork defeat the purposes of cost control?
Now my note:  My purpose in getting you these questions is to get you something that will tell give you information, get others in the room information, about whether the legislator understands the bill and to get you some real answers if they do.  These are to be a substitute for yelling, not a complement.  I agree with those who are saying to stop the shouting matches at the town halls.  It’s unhelpful, it plays into the hands of the  Democrats and their love-slaves in the media.  (Tapper not included.)  Ask the questions, record the answers, then find a reporter and tell them what you thought of the answer.  Get your opposition, if you are opposed, in the newspaper and on the radio and TV in a way you’d be proud to show your grandchildren.  Drop me a line at my blog if you ask one of these and tell me how it was answered.  Thanks.

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
To see the comments on the original post, look here.


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Question, sir ( rep anyone) will you too be in the “health care” that you will vote for, and if not is that being hypercritical of you?

grapeknutz on August 6, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Question, sir ( rep anyone) will you too be in the “health care” that you will vote for, and if not is that being hypercritical of you?

grapeknutz on August 6, 2009 at 9:33 AM

#1 question!

ladyingray on August 6, 2009 at 9:35 AM

That Iraqi threw a shoe at Bush. Can we throw latex surgical gloves at our representative?

percysunshine on August 6, 2009 at 9:36 AM

Does anyone know where I can find out when/where my state’s local town hall would be? I don’t think there’s been one recently for me…

I’ve checked around, but can’t find any info. Unless I call Dodd’s office, or my Reps…

(Connecticut)

JetBoy on August 6, 2009 at 9:36 AM

Drop me a line at my blog if you ask one of these and tell me how it was answered. Thanks.

You are an incredible resource for us. Thank you so much.

Loxodonta on August 6, 2009 at 9:38 AM

Another question: Representative, once you are unemployed as a result of voting for this bill, will you be required to pay both the 2.5% tax (which, you will note, is capped at average insurance premiums as determined by your Health Choice Commissioner) and the 5.4% surcharge in Sec. 441?

Vashta.Nerada on August 6, 2009 at 9:38 AM

I’d like to know more about the provision in the bill that allows the WH to control our bank account. I think Beck’s show is airing on this tonight.

becki51758 on August 6, 2009 at 9:40 AM

These are to be a substitute for yelling, not a complement.

ALINSKY RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

Please stop rolling over for Axelrod. We do not need to concede on our right to be loud.

We must learn to not be so naive. Wake up folks.

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 9:40 AM

There are dozens of places where the IRS will play out intrusively in Health car.

We need to report Obama for 2 Saturdays ago renaming it The Health Insurance Reform Act. It is a medical IRS reform act. It will increase taxes to all employers and people that work and have jobs.

seven on August 6, 2009 at 9:41 AM

King, I agree we shouldn’t be yelling for the sake of yelling alone, but in some of these cases there’s only so much you can take when a Congressman or Senator is standing up there feeding you line after line of outright garbage or acting the way Steny Hoyer was during his recent press conference, that smug “holier than thou, I know better than you” attitude. Simple disagreement isn’t going to get the message across sometimes.

As to that “playing into their hands,” they wouldn’t be pushing back against the “angry mobs” and trying to make them look conjured if they weren’t genuinely concerned about them.

These people wrongly view their positions as jobs to which they are entitled, and they do whatever it takes to keep them secure. We, as voters, rarely do a good enough job separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to dealing with incumbents at the ballot box. Perhaps some of these Blue Dogs and RINOs will lose their “jobs” next year if they support this, but to most Americans, that won’t be enough if this tripe passes. We aren’t simply looking to take heads, we want to protect our country and our freedoms from this awful, awful piece of legislation.

Red Cloud on August 6, 2009 at 9:41 AM

JetBoy on August 6, 2009 at 9:36 AM

TONIGHT!

8/06 06:00 PM: Town Hall – Woodstock Academy, 57 Academy Road, Woodstock, CT, 06281

via Conservatives for Patients’ Rights

Loxodonta on August 6, 2009 at 9:41 AM

we need to ask intelligent questions. but we need to watch the Senate Finance Committee (obviously not all of Congress went home). see WaPo article on this site.

keep your eyes on the ball.

kelley in virginia on August 6, 2009 at 9:42 AM

The Liberals have established the ‘Rules of Political Engagement”,act accordingly,and defend when necessary!

canopfor on August 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Watching the emotion evident in these townhalls so far is great fun, but KBanian is right. Those who attend should come armed with questions, ask the questions directly, cut speakers off when they offer nonsense answers, and conclude by declaring whether they are or (more likely) not satisfied with the answer.

As KBanian notes, those who attend should find the reporters and complain afterwards.

BuckeyeSam on August 6, 2009 at 9:45 AM

Loxodonta on August 6, 2009 at 9:41 AM

Thanks for that link, I’ll be checking in with that often. Woodstock is on the other end of the state (I’m in that South West “nook”) so that’s not my Rep…but great site to check in on to see.

JetBoy on August 6, 2009 at 9:46 AM

Those who attend should come armed with questions, ask the questions directly, cut speakers off when they offer nonsense answers

BuckeyeSam on August 6, 2009 at 9:45 AM

I’ve never seen a TV clip with this type of interaction.

Can you provide evidence where this approach was successful?

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 9:49 AM

I found a “fishy” blog post I would encourage everyone to forward to flag@whitehouse.gov!

A look at your clinic of the future.

If enough sent it on then I’m sure it will enhance their reporting system!

Just click the email button and send the fishy email on to Obama!
David

LifeTrek on August 6, 2009 at 9:50 AM

JetBoy on August 6, 2009 at 9:46 AM

You’re welcome. Hope you can get to one. How will you dress? Rags or Riches? And do you have enough swastika tattoos?

Loxodonta on August 6, 2009 at 9:51 AM

Mike Thompson (D-Nor-Cal) held a teleconference-town hall meeting last night, at 8pm pacific time. I actually recieved a call around 6pm and was given a password to join in the “call”. (I am a registered Republican). Unfortunately, (because of the short notice), I had other plans and could not participate. I will write Mr. Thompson soon and thank him for the “2-hour heads up” AND I hope he recieved an “earfull” of “STOP SPENDING OUR FUTURE–YOU CANNOT AFFORD IT IN THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE”

Rovin on August 6, 2009 at 9:53 AM

i’ve alerted our local newspapers. obviously, they are on the side of their subscribers & advertisers. but that is how business works, right? doesn’t all media understand this?

why don’t we boycott certain media?

kelley in virginia on August 6, 2009 at 9:53 AM

Another question: Representative, once you are unemployed as a result of voting for this bill, will you be required to pay both the 2.5% tax (which, you will note, is capped at average insurance premiums as determined by your Health Choice Commissioner) and the 5.4% surcharge in Sec. 441?

Vashta.Nerada on August 6, 2009 at 9:38 AM

ZING!!!!!!!!!!

grapeknutz on August 6, 2009 at 9:53 AM

heh…I have a NY Jets tat, worst I’ll get is laughed at.

I could shave my head tho…I’d LOVE to see Dodd host a town hall, he had a couple a month or two back I think. As for dress, a simple polo shirt and khakis for me.

Maybe I should go the other way, and show up in a tux?

JetBoy on August 6, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Maybe I should go the other way, and show up in a tux?

JetBoy on August 6, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Do it.

Loxodonta on August 6, 2009 at 9:57 AM

T-Shirts I dreamed of during the night for proper dress-up attire for any townhall meeting:

Let Us ALL Reach an Understanding.
YOU Need to Get:

Out of MY Face
Away from MY Constitution
and
OFF MY LAWN

Let US Get Some Things
Straight
I May Be Old
But I Can Still
Think Straight
Talk Straight
Shoot Straight

Yoop on August 6, 2009 at 9:59 AM

The best T-Shirt you could wear would simply say “PUMA”.

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 10:01 AM

How about a sit-in?

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Yoop I’ll take two dozen of each :)

HoustonRight on August 6, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Opponents of this Chavez inspired policy are falling into a trap. Do not ask questions about the merits of the program. This lends legitimacy to the Government for implementing this canard upon the people in the first place. That cedes territory to the Marxists.

Good example questions,

1. Can you point to the passage in the US Constitution that gives Congress the authority to impose this freedom and liberty seizing legislation upon the citizens of this country?
2. If this bill fails to pass, and you vote for it, will you resign your seat?
3. Since constitutionally our citizen’s power over the Government, and our freedom and liberty are bestowed upon us by God, could you explain to us how you have placed the Obama Administration between God and the Citizen?

epluribusunum on August 6, 2009 at 10:07 AM

How about a sit-in?

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 10:04 AM

With kbanaian’s posts, we could have teach-ins!

And teach members of Congress about that bill they don’t have time to read.

Loxodonta on August 6, 2009 at 10:10 AM

ALINSKY RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

Please stop rolling over for Axelrod. We do not need to concede on our right to be loud.

We must learn to not be so naive. Wake up folks.

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 9:40 AM

My feelings exactly. Dems came to power by opposing the incumbant. It is an easy task of simply calling out everything under the sun, as “Reps fault”. The additional venom concerning Bush, Cheney, Rummey, summarized how desperate, yet effective in painting the bullseye.

Fast fowrward to now – Dems continue to play “bad Reps”, but they no longer have the Bush/Cheney meme to follow, though they tried for the past 7 1/2 months. Those “bad Reps” are everyday people – some who even voted for Obama. They work, care about their families and freedoms – yet are villified for being “bad Reps”. That is the point of no return. Its one thing to point the finger at those already in power, its another to hold that power and continue to blame and proclaim any opposition is due to “bad Reps”

Axelrod is a deviant idiot in my opinion. He doesnt understand the basic premise of governing, though well versed in obstruction. At some point – people need to execute their programs and plans, as does everything else in the world work. Bidding against a competitor is easy, even easier to win. Delivering that bid is the tough part – and no matter how much the new winning bid blames and complains – they are miles away from delivering their promise and solution.

Odie1941 on August 6, 2009 at 10:10 AM

I agree with those who are saying to stop the shouting matches at the town halls. It’s unhelpful, it plays into the hands of the Democrats and their love-slaves in the media.

I disagree to the extent that you can ask a question about the tax implications of being unemployed but when the politician comes back with a generic non-response do you say thank you and sit down? NO! Again I say NO!!! This is too important an issue not to demand accountability and legitimate answers from our elected officals. If they do not respond adequately it is appropriate to get in their faces and shout! These politicians need to understand that the public is involved on this issue and will not abide by passive subservience to a party agenda.

As to the demonization of opponents by the DNC and media. That’s just a reality of life. Get over it.

highhopes on August 6, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Sure I could ask these questions of my reps but I would have just as much luck asking my 7 year old boy how to install a transmission; either way I’m going to get a blank stare, a stuttering mumble and ultimately no real answer at all.

These morons don’t have a clue what’s in the bill, they’re voting for it because the race pimping slug in the White House ordered them to.

Bishop on August 6, 2009 at 10:17 AM

How about a sit-in?

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 10:04 AM

faraway: A what! Look,according to General Patton he
suggests,to go around,and through the enemy,
always forward,there no sense,holding on to
a position,and babysitting it!!

Besides,the idiot Liberals use that tactic!

Sheesh,a sit in!!(I’m kidding):)

canopfor on August 6, 2009 at 10:17 AM

Another question: Representative, once you are unemployed as a result of voting for this bill, will you be required to pay both the 2.5% tax (which, you will note, is capped at average insurance premiums as determined by your Health Choice Commissioner) and the 5.4% surcharge in Sec. 441?

Vashta.Nerada on August 6, 2009 at 9:38 AM

+1 (OUCH!)

VibrioCocci on August 6, 2009 at 10:18 AM

The biggest mistake conservatives make is believing that liberals can be reasoned with. They can’t be reasoned with because they truly believe everything they think and believe is true, and therefore can’t be wrong in any way, and they also truly believe that anyone who disagrees with them is Evil with a capital E.

By criticizing the justifiable anger of the people who are showing up at these town hall meetings all you are doing is legitimizing the demonization of the people who are truly and rightfully so angry.

Asking politicians complicated questions about a bill so many of them have already claimed to have not read, have no intention of reading, and wouldn’t understand even if they did read it, is a colossal waste of time. Telling people to not yell, when lied to TO THEIR FACE by the elected representatives who work FOR THEM, is an insult to the people.

My God. Have any of you people actually watched any of these videos? The politicians won’t answer simple questions that are being asked of them now that are put in plain language.

The kind of attitude expressed in this post is reminiscent of the typical message board poster who can’t help but insert himself in the middle of a flame war to prove how “reasonable” they are and how above the fray they are.

Everybody should be going to these meetings and yelling their heads off.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Everybody should be going to these meetings and yelling their heads off.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 10:18 AM

While that sounds therapeutic on the surface, yelling your head off is exactly what they want you to do.

That’s the kind of video that someone will “happen” to shoot and post all across the lefty blogs.

VibrioCocci on August 6, 2009 at 10:21 AM

OPI, copied below is the letter I faxed today to Sen. Casey and Sen. Specter. Use it freely any way you wish.
……………..
RE: When is your next town hall meeting in my area?

Please let me know when you plan to address a town hall meeting in the [your location] area. My neighbors and I have some urgent questions about government health care that we need you to answer during your summer recess, such as the following:
1. How can America afford the $1+ trillion price tag of socialized health care during these difficult economic times? How can you support any health care proposal that increases costs or imposes new taxes on any American?
The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the House health bill increases the deficit by $239 billion over the next decade. But government-run health care won’t turn into a pumpkin after a decade. The underreported news is the new spending that will continue to increase well beyond the 10-year period that CBO examines, and that this blowout will overwhelm even the House Democrats’ huge tax increases, Medicare spending cuts and other “pay fors.”
2. Eighty-five percent of Americans are happy with their current health plan. Instead of fixing flaws in the current health care program, why are you just using the flaws as an excuse to destroy the entire system? If you are serious about our health care, address the issues seriously and constructively. Where there are flaws, address them issue by issue, rather than exploiting them to re-engineer the entire system.
3. Why won’t current schemes inevitably lead not only to government-rationed care, but the death of the medical innovation?
Government-run healthcare schemes with most of the same elements now being discussed have been proven disasters in Tennessee, Maine and most of all Massachusetts, which has been judged a failure by everyone from Reason to the Boston Globe. The pattern is always similar — costs soar out of control, which in turn pushes government to reduce benefits or payments to doctors and hospitals (pushing them to skimp on care).
Regardless of President Obama’s indignation toward those who might actually disagree with him about solutions, basic economics and common sense dictate that government can forcibly reduce the expenditures on medical services by only two methods: 1) restricting the use of medical services, and 2) lowering the payment for such services. And regardless of what Congress and the administration may claim, ultimately, these two boil down to one: the “R word”–direct or indirect rationing of medical care. — Forbes.com
4. Will Medicare be cut? How much? What features will be cut and how much?
5. Will illegal aliens be covered? If Medicare will be cut and illegal aliens will be covered, why are you shifting health care from senior citizens to illegal aliens?
6. Will government impose mandates (like the guaranteed issue mandate that nearly doubled insurance premiums in New Jersey), and why won’t such mandates be driving people into government-run health exchanges and interfering with our right to choose our own doctors?
7. Why aren’t Fannie Med co-ops just as unacceptable as a government insurance plan?
8. If cost control is a problem in the current system, why isn’t tort reform being addressed?
9. Will you pledge to join whatever health care plan you vote for us to have, and to opt out completely from all other private and public health care coverage?
10. Why should we not vote for (and campaign for) your opponent if you support ObamaCare?
You’ll be told that the failure of Hillarycare in 1994 led to the GOP electoral tsunami that year. Please be reminded that the Democrats would have lost even more seats in 1994 had they passed Hillarycare. Please be reminded that after Congress passed the Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act in 1988, a mob of seniors heckled and chased then-powerful Rep. Dan Rostenkowski down a Chicago street and attacked his car. His colleagues faced a public only slightly less angry. Less than two years later, before the bill’s implementation, Congress repealed the law by huge margins.
.
Kindly direct your reply as to your next town hall meeting in our area to me at the letterhead address. My neighbors and I look forward to discussing these and related matters with you during your summer recess.

Respectfully,

petefrt on August 6, 2009 at 10:23 AM

post all across the lefty blogs.

VibrioCocci on August 6, 2009 at 10:21 AM

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

So? Why do you care? Wake up folks. Stop conceding.

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 10:28 AM

While that sounds therapeutic on the surface, yelling your head off is exactly what they want you to do.

That’s the kind of video that someone will “happen” to shoot and post all across the lefty blogs.

VibrioCocci on August 6, 2009 at 10:21 AM

Who is they? And for the record, that video pointing out that the filthy liar in the White House took longer to pick out a dog than he did on this plan was priceless.

highhopes on August 6, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Just called my congressman’s office in Baltimore …

Me: Good morning, can you tell me if the congressman is going to be holding town hall meetings?
Staffer: uh, yes he is
Me: Can you tell me when and where?
Staffer: uh, when legislation is up for a vote
Me: Can I get the dates and locations please?
Staffer: uh, we don’t have those
Me: Will you be posting a schedule?
Staffer: uh, sure

Not holding my breath.

Dukehoopsfan on August 6, 2009 at 10:29 AM

This is too important an issue not to demand accountability and legitimate answers from our elected officals.

Absolutely. I do not advocate being rude or swearing but I strongly advocate calling a spade a spade. If the member stands there and lies, there is no reason to sit there and suck it down.

Have we forgotten? They are our employees. They work for us. I suggest you treat them as you would treat an employee you have called into the office and are about ready to fire but will at least allow them an explanation before you do. You surely won’t calmly sit there while your employee blames others, dances around your questions or outright lies to your face.

Righteous anger is healthy. These people are trying to take over our country and to date have done a damn good job.

katablog.com on August 6, 2009 at 10:30 AM

The biggest mistake conservatives make is believing that liberals can be reasoned with. They can’t be reasoned with because they truly believe everything they think and believe is true, and therefore can’t be wrong in any way, and they also truly believe that anyone who disagrees with them is Evil with a capital E.

By criticizing the justifiable anger of the people who are showing up at these town hall meetings all you are doing is legitimizing the demonization of the people who are truly and rightfully so angry.

Asking politicians complicated questions about a bill so many of them have already claimed to have not read, have no intention of reading, and wouldn’t understand even if they did read it, is a colossal waste of time. Telling people to not yell, when lied to TO THEIR FACE by the elected representatives who work FOR THEM, is an insult to the people.

My God. Have any of you people actually watched any of these videos? The politicians won’t answer simple questions that are being asked of them now that are put in plain language.

The kind of attitude expressed in this post is reminiscent of the typical message board poster who can’t help but insert himself in the middle of a flame war to prove how “reasonable” they are and how above the fray they are.

Everybody should be going to these meetings and yelling their heads off.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Absolutely agree. The “above the fray” types had their chance, and here we are. In contrast the liberals learned long ago the squeeky wheel gets the grease

Sugarbuzz on August 6, 2009 at 10:33 AM

That can’t be right, that looks like an added tax to me…

right2bright on August 6, 2009 at 10:34 AM

I think we are doing a pretty good job of this, but we need to continue to ridicule and mock this reinvention of American health care, at these meeting. We can show our anger and disgust through our firmness, relentlessness and aggressiveness, but we need to reflect to these proponents that we see them as foolish.

Secondly, I am referring to this Dem proposal as a “re-invention of American health care” and not reform. Reform is perhaps what we should be proposing. We need to share how we want American health care to be better. For instance, tort reforms, accountability to address the rampant fraud and abuse in the current Medicare/Medicaid system and more health care options for small businesses that want to join together. I say “NO” to re-invention, but we need to also be about solutions and articulate those as well.

In Liberty

pjean on August 6, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Reform is perhaps what we should be proposing.

pjean on August 6, 2009 at 10:36 AM

I totally disagree. The big lie in all of this is the notion that “healthcare” needs “reform”.

Fix medicare and medicaid before you come after my private health insurance.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM

You can have my private health insurance after you pry my cold dead fingers…

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM

KBANAIN:

Maybe next they could ask about PAGE 65, SECTION 164 (“REINSURANCE”)

That section provides $10 BILLION for “eligible” retiree health plans. Retirees? Yep, as young as 55-years old.

I’ve asked my congressmen and senators and none could explain what this is.

I think it’s a $10B transfer of taxpayer money to the unions. They’re the only ones I know who get to retire at 55. And get health care.

jeanneb on August 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM

While that sounds therapeutic on the surface, yelling your head off is exactly what they want you to do.

That’s the kind of video that someone will “happen” to shoot and post all across the lefty blogs.

VibrioCocci on August 6, 2009 at 10:21 AM

Who cares? Do you still harbor some misbegotten belief that somehow anyone that frequents a “lefty blog” will be changing their minds due to polite behavior from conservatives?

Anyways, if they don’t see it, they will just make it up, so it doesn’t matter.

Sugarbuzz on August 6, 2009 at 10:56 AM

When is BlueDog Ben Nelson‘s town hall scheduled for the Omaha area?

OmahaConservative on August 6, 2009 at 11:09 AM

I am a peaceful, peace loving, generally jovial, happy person, and I am also non-confrontation almost to a fault – but this time, I am sorry: You are wrong.

I agree, in as much as this, threats, and ad hominems must not happen, but loud, angry boisterous shouting of facts, calling out of liars, and vitriol against these scum-sucking weasels is a necessary part of the fight.

To undermine passion for the sake of ‘appearances’ offers a deceptive calm that threatens to undermine the whole movement. If this anger and passion is real and not generated – which I think it’s very safe to say it is – then it behooves everyone to express it honestly and civilly.

When someone lies to you, and treats you with disdain and contempt, I do not think they are entitled to civility.

WashingtonsWake on August 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM

I am hoping to find a townhall meeting in my area, I have kind of disconnected from the political scene changing from lifetime Rep. to Ind. I think the questions asked should be YES or NO answers, I have never seen a Democrat that can say those words, I am not really savvvy on these new phones and all, but it would be interesting to see them squirm when asked these questions. I feel the frustration that other people are feeling with a totally unresponsive gov. that tell you to shut up and do as you’re master tells you. This all started in the 60′s and has gotten continually worse.I am in my 70′s and never felt more fired up about what is happening to this great country. God Bless America

concernedsenior on August 6, 2009 at 11:17 AM

concernedsenior on August 6, 2009 at 11:17 AM

God bless you!
What area are you in?

OmahaConservative on August 6, 2009 at 11:21 AM

I think it’s a $10B transfer of taxpayer money to the unions. They’re the only ones I know who get to retire at 55. And get health care.

jeanneb on August 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM

I just retired and I’m 50.

Actually, I was laid off but I was vested in the pension so I got the compensation package for being laid off, and when those benefits ran out I was able to get my retiree benefits. I got a job as a contractor, so I’m making up my salary now, but I have no benefits from it at all. I’m being paid by the hour and I could get laid off again any time.

While I was in a union for 16 years, I took a promotion to management in 1995 because the pension was better. In 2005 my company stopped the management pension plan. I was luckier than most because I had enough time in when they stopped it. (I worked for Verizon and when they stopped the pension they did it retroactively for everyone who did not have 10 years of service on January 1, 2002. I was hired in 1979 so I lucked out. But many people who had worked for the company for years had their pensions taken away overnight.)

As management, I have always had to pay a part of my healthcare insurance premiums. Union members do not have to pay anything for their premiums. I went on strike in 1989 to prevent the company from implementing co-pays. We struck for 4 months and we won that concession. I took the promotion to management knowing I would have to start paying, but the pension was so much better it was worth it to me. So did a lot of other people. Like I said, I was lucky, but many others were not.

I worked for almost 30 years to earn my retiree benefits. So did everyone else who has them. If you want to demonize unions go right ahead. But don’t assume it’s a perk nobody worked for.

And by the way, I got my lump sum pension but because of tax laws I can’t touch it until I’m 59 1/2 without paying a huge penalty. But I probably won’t live that long so I’ve put that money into plans that will be safe so my daughter will have a better start in life than most people today. There’s pretty much no chance now that any kid coming up in today’s world will ever see the kinds of benefits my generation got with their jobs. Pensions are a thing of the past and employer healthcare insurance is the next thing to go.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Liberals in Congress are getting their arses handed to them because they blindly voted for a massive bureaucracy and have no idea how they’re going to pay for it or what it will do to our health care system. They blindly went along with the socialist agenda of Obama, Pelosi and Reid while they follow their Hugo Chavez model.

All one has to do is read section 401 and it becomes obvious why they can’t answer simple questions about the Bill. Now the socialists have mobilized their propaganda machine using their Saul Alinsky model. I’ve always wondered if half of the people in this country are really that blind and clueless that they could so easily have the “Vulcan Mind Meld” work on them. Now, I think we’re about to find out.

The Dems have divided the country into the tax paying class and the tax consumption class. For some reason, the paying class seems to be a lot smarter than the other. What the liberals and the consumption class are too dumb to realize is that even if they win on this one, they lose. The socialists in Congress will wind up losing power for another decade or more.

orlandocajun on August 6, 2009 at 11:36 AM

OmahaConservative

I am in AZ. but not close to any big cities, but I plan on finding either a Rep. or Ind. party headquarters and getting involved to bring back a responsive gov. I don’t know if that is possible but I will sure give it my all.

concernedsenior on August 6, 2009 at 11:36 AM

I’m sorry, but without confrontation this WOULD NOT BE MAKING THE NEWS!

The Media will only cover this is there is confrontation, otherwise, no airplay at all.

One of the reasons the Tea Partys do NOT get covered is they are PEACEFUL!

If it Bleeds, it Leads, is still the mantra of the Press… Rational quiet reasoned discourse is what you use to the Press when they ASK why you are angry… but without that anger at these meetings… nothing will get any MSM attention.

Tell me, there have been a LOT of Town Hall meetings… why have THESE meetings gone viral?

Romeo13 on August 6, 2009 at 12:05 PM

I totally disagree. The big lie in all of this is the notion that “healthcare” needs “reform”.

Fix medicare and medicaid before you come after my private health insurance.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM

The problem is that it is political now. The filthy liar in the White House and his party have promised radical nationalization of healthcare. They can’t back down now without losing face and, in case you missed it, the filthy liar is the most arrogant kind of an SOB there is- the kind who doesn’t take counsel and doesn’t realize when he is in the wrong.

highhopes on August 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

“I went on strike in 1989 to prevent the company from implementing co-pays. We struck for 4 months and we won that concession. ”

Co-pays are one of the best ways of keeping spurious doctor visits to a minimum. Otherwise it just seems free and it gets abused.

In other words, you raised the price of using the phone for millions so you didn’t get stuck paying $20.00 to visit a doctor for an itchy elbow.

Thanks.

WitchDoctor on August 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

I totally disagree. The big lie in all of this is the notion that “healthcare” needs “reform”.

Fix medicare and medicaid before you come after my private health insurance.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM

One of the few things they DO need to do, is change the TAX law so a self employed person gets the same tax break for getting their own insurance, as a company gets.

I’d also perform a study of the Health Insurance companies, and look at WHY they give companies a lower insurance rate than individuals… makes very little sense with modern IT for the Administration….

Romeo13 on August 6, 2009 at 12:18 PM

kbanaian – thank you for doing so much research and for a terrific series.

Keep up the good work.

barnone on August 6, 2009 at 12:19 PM

This whole thing stinks of unconstitutionality.

Every single politician that votes for this needs to be imprisoned permanently or worse.

Spiritk9 on August 6, 2009 at 12:43 PM

“I went on strike in 1989 to prevent the company from implementing co-pays. We struck for 4 months and we won that concession. ”

Co-pays are one of the best ways of keeping spurious doctor visits to a minimum. Otherwise it just seems free and it gets abused.

I totally agree with that part. But I didn’t say union members have no co-pays when they use their health insurance benefits. They do. They have the same co-pays and deductables as most other people who have health insurance.

They don’t pay anything towards the premiums. It’s a benefit as part of the job and was bargained for and ultimately agreed to by the company. Believe me, we gave up other stuff to keep it. We also lost 4 months pay, which many union members (who hate unions) are still pissed off about 20 years later.

But people are encouraged to use their health care benefits for “preventative” medicine. By the company and the union.

In other words, you raised the price of using the phone for millions so you didn’t get stuck paying $20.00 to visit a doctor for an itchy elbow.

Thanks.

WitchDoctor on August 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

I hate to break this to you but people who work for the phone company also have……..phones. I’m also not a socialist, so I don’t care how other people pay their bills.

I put that part in my post about going on strike because I knew it would piss off the union bashers.

The biggest mistake I ever made in my life was leaving the union for management. I’d still have a job and a growing pension.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM

One of the few things they DO need to do, is change the TAX law so a self employed person gets the same tax break for getting their own insurance, as a company gets.

I’d also perform a study of the Health Insurance companies, and look at WHY they give companies a lower insurance rate than individuals… makes very little sense with modern IT for the Administration….

Romeo13 on August 6, 2009 at 12:18 PM

I’d like to see medical insurance be just that. Medical insurance. Not “health care”. Make it like car insurance. When your car is new you pay higher premiums for collision and comprehensive, and when your car is paid for and old you drop collision. No sense paying more in premiums than a car is worth.

I’d be more than happy to get just a catastrophic medical insurance plan. In case I get in an accident and don’t die. I’d also pay for hospice coverage. When I get cancer, I’ll just use that benefit. No treatment beyond pain meds.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Here’s one of the few videos I’ve seen from the crowds point of view. Most of the videos floating around don’t show what the crowd actually sees from these officials.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y93Iht7fjIs&feature=related

Watch Sebelius. Watch Spector. They are not listening to a word that woman says. They don’t care what she’s saying.

I wish I could read lips because I’d love to know what Sebelius found so funny.

Jaynie59 on August 6, 2009 at 1:37 PM

Rush just reported that the Healthcare bill allows the government access to your bank accounts! Jesus Effing Christ, it is time to storm the White House and the Capitol Building. Who has tanks?

Pelayo on August 6, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Question, sir ( rep anyone) will you too be in the “health care” that you will vote for, and if not is that being hypercritical of you?

grapeknutz on August 6, 2009 at 9:33 AM

And add please:
Will you guarantee that all of your staff will be enrolled in the Public Plan?

humdinger on August 6, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Luckily, my rep understands the problems with Ø’s healthcare takeover. So no townhalls here. :-)

blr2449 on August 6, 2009 at 6:05 PM