ObamaCare would use tax money for abortions: AP

posted at 11:36 am on August 6, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

A few days ago, the Associated Press issued a “fact check” on the health-care reform package that included a refutation of the idea that the public plan would pay for abortions.  After abortion opponents ripped Charles Babington for poor reporting, the AP turned the story over to Ricardo Alfonso Zaldivar, who fact-checked the fact check.  Now the AP acknowledges that the public plan would indeed use taxpayer money to pay for abortions:

Health care legislation before Congress would allow a new government-sponsored insurance plan to cover abortions, a decision that would affect millions of women and recast federal policy on the divisive issue. …

A compromise approved by a House committee last week attempted to balance questions of federal funding, personal choice and the conscience rights of clinicians. It would allow the public plan to cover abortion but without using federal funds, only dollars from beneficiary premiums. Likewise, private plans in the new insurance exchange could opt to cover abortion, but no federal subsidies would be used to pay for the procedure. …

But the health overhaul would create a stream of federal funding not covered by the restrictions.

The new federal funds would take the form of subsidies for low- and middle-income people buying coverage through the health insurance exchange. Subsidies would be available for people to buy the public plan or private coverage. Making things more complicated, the federal subsidies would be mixed in with contributions from individuals and employers. Eventually, most Americans could end up getting their coverage through the exchange.

In other words, the entire exercise is an end run around the Hyde Amendment.  The issue first arose when conservatives noted that abortion did not get mentioned in any of the versions of ObamaCare floating around on Capitol Hill.  A lack of restriction on abortion funding would essentially repeal the Hyde Amendment, which bars federal funds from being used to pay for abortions.  The plan would not have to specifically include abortions, just as plans don’t specifically include any procedures, but would cover any legal medical service and fund it either directly or through subsidies.

Obama and his Congressional allies appear to have found a way to pass the Freedom of Choice Act without having to deal with the political fallout of it, by burying it in ObamaCare.  It’s a dishonest approach, especially since the bill’s sponsors won’t openly acknowledge the change.  A plurality of Americans think of themselves as pro-choice (majorities in some polls), but many more people believe that their tax dollars should not fund abortions whether they support their legality or not.

Rep. Lois Capps (D-CA) wants to offer a “compromise” that would allow private insurers to qualify plans in the state exchanges that specifically exclude abortion.  Capps says, “Our country allows for both sides, and our health plan should reflect that as well,” but that misses the point.  The issue is not with private insurers, but with public funding of abortions.  It’s not a compromise at all if any taxpayer money gets used to pay for abortions.

Maybe Babington should have looked a little closer the first time on this story.


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jazzpiano: the abortion issue should create a huge headache for deathcare.

kelley in virginia on August 6, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Has anyone ran this by the Catholic Hospitals?? We have a good one in my area. It would be devasting if it were to go away.

Dire Straits on August 6, 2009 at 12:04 PM

Perhaps they’re “too big to fail [or shut themselves down]” and the government will seize them. For the public good, of course.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Why so … bloody

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Perhaps they’re “too big to fail [or shut themselves down]” and the government will seize them. For the public good, of course.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:08 PM

The Church has as much said they’d close them down and refuse to sell them if they were forced to perform abortions.

wildcat84 on August 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

forgot the //sarc there bluelight. it’s sarcasm

ted c on August 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

The more people read this bill, the more the outrage. This recess in not good timing for Obama.
As it grows, the more convinced I am that the thin skinned messiah will not be POTUS by Jan 1st. I do not see how his ego can handle the outrage. He only deals in adoration.

ORconservative on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Imagine if the brand-new state of Hawaii had made this option available to Stanley Ann Dunham in 1961.

What would President John McCain or President Hillary Clinton have done?

Steve Z on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

They smile, wear lapel flags, claim to be patriots, claim to love America….it is all a facade.

They are traitors and usurpers. They are enemies of the state. They must be stopped by any and all means necessary.

LimeyGeek on August 6, 2009 at 12:02 PM

So, to reiterate someone’s question from yesterday:

Is this Iran?

bluelightbrigade on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

A majority of Americans will morally refuse to live in a country that uses their tax dollars forcefully to kill children.
JoeinTX on August 6, 2009 at 12:07 PM

Planned Parenthood already gets around $300 million annually from the government, and Obama lifted the ban on funding foreign abortions almost immediately upon taking office.

Our hands our stained with blood, whether we like it or not.

May God have mercy upon me, and upon my nation.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

at long last president obama, have you no decency?

DrW on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Look at the picture used on this thread. It once again reminds me of the sick SOBs at Notre Dame that invited that piece of dung to give a speech. There’s NOTHING Christian about that college, or any college that invites him.

I can only hope, that Notre Dame gets hit by lightening and receives the same treatment that another South Bend icon got, Studebaker.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 12:11 PM

forgot the //sarc there bluelight. it’s sarcasm

ted c on August 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

thx for letting me know.

i take it all back, and apologize.

bluelightbrigade on August 6, 2009 at 12:11 PM

sarc attack

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

How about God have mercy on the people who voted for this idiot in the first place.

We knew (unless you voted for him) and they “dreamed”.

upinak on August 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

I’d be willing to bet that Catholic hospitals shut down. There is the tipping point. Sad, in a way, that the tipping point is this far left but at least there may be one. I was beginning to doubt.

Father Flager (sp?) can not run all the Catholic hospitals.

ORconservative on August 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

understood. I’m a father as well and am equally disgusted by this report. All the more reason the sarcasm needs to come out about it. To reveal this for what it is, through sarcasm, is to expose it completely.

ted c on August 6, 2009 at 12:13 PM

The Church has as much said they’d close them down and refuse to sell them if they were forced to perform abortions.

wildcat84 on August 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

I’d like to see them follow through with that.

But when Obama speaks at Notre Dame, and people like Pelosi and Kerry are embraced as legitimate Catholics, and the majority of Catholics vote for Obama, I am not filled with confidence in the Catholic Church.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Forget the yelling at townhalls.

Sing “We shall overcome”

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 12:13 PM

How about God have mercy on the people who voted for this idiot in the first place.

We knew (unless you voted for him) and they “dreamed”.

upinak on August 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

It’s sentiments like this that make it easy for me to se ehow people are able to draw parallels between Teh Won and the Antichrist.

bluelightbrigade on August 6, 2009 at 12:14 PM

A majority of Americans will morally refuse to live in a country that uses their tax dollars forcefully to kill children.
JoeinTX on August 6, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Planned Parenthood already gets around $300 million annually from the government, and Obama lifted the ban on funding foreign abortions almost immediately upon taking office.

Our hands our stained with blood, whether we like it or not.

May God have mercy upon me, and upon my nation.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

+1 Although I think a large number are not as informed as to how tainted their tax dollars are. If this deathcare bill is what wakes a majority up to what their taxes are actually being used for then that is a positive in this grim mess.

BakerAllie on August 6, 2009 at 12:14 PM

I’d be willing to bet that Catholic hospitals shut down. There is the tipping point. Sad, in a way, that the tipping point is this far left but at least there may be one. I was beginning to doubt.

Father Flager (sp?) can not run all the Catholic hospitals.

ORconservative on August 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Unfortunately, the Vatican gave cover to Catholics on abortion. Decisions can be made weighing other considerations like “social justice”. I’d be willing to bet that non-Catholic doctors will be allowed to perform abortions in Catholic hopitals so their doors may remain open to the poor.

Laura in Maryland on August 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM

We know why there are 1,000 plus pages in the health care bill. Everything including abortion and euthanasia, if it is not speciffically prohibited will be covered. I wouldn’t care if it took another 1,000 plus pages to speciffically deny abortion, euthanasia, and assisted suicide. The liberals seem to find rights where none exists so we have to be dilligent to cover every possibility.

fourdeucer on August 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM

This is the end game for me – I will not tolerate my personal money utilized for casual eugenics or death for convenience. Meet you on the field. Tell me when and where – I already know the how.

Ris4victory on August 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Obama and his Congressional allies appear to have found a way to pass the Freedom of Choice Act without having to deal with the political fallout of it, by burying it in ObamaCare. It’s a dishonest approach, especially since the bill’s sponsors won’t openly acknowledge the change.

Subverting the Constitution, Remaking our Nation one bill at a time.

Hope! Change!

conservative pilgrim on August 6, 2009 at 12:17 PM

In 9 months I will be a proud father.

bluelightbrigade on August 6, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Congrats! Fatherhood is tough, and absolutely wonderful. We had our third two weeks ago.

at long last president obama, have you no decency?

DrW on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

That question was answered in his refusal to oppose infanticide in Illinois.

Even NARAL didn’t oppose the federal version, yet Obama argued against the identical IL bill (and then lied, claiming the IL bill was different).

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Ris4victory on August 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Agreed. Side by side. Until the end.

HoustonRight on August 6, 2009 at 12:18 PM

It would allow the public plan to cover abortion but without using federal funds, only dollars from beneficiary premiums.

What a load of crap!

Talk about trying to finesse a point, money is money. It’s a “fungible” (look it up) item so trying to “spin” this to claim that federal public funds would not be used to pay for abortions is so disingenuous as to be equivalent to a blatant lie.

The MSM is, without a doubt, evil!

Fatal on August 6, 2009 at 12:18 PM

Here is to waiting for the lanterns at Boston’s Old North Church.

Pelayo on August 6, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Forget the yelling at townhalls.

Sing “We shall overcome”

faraway on August 6, 2009 at 12:13 PM

I think creativity in debating these clowns will go a long way. Steele did it with the phone calls. Someone wrote on a thread yesterday (someone in FL) they were going to a Town Hall meeting wearing Obama t-shirts, dressing their MIL as a bag lady, and her son would film it all for You Tube.

Put them on their heels. We have the facts, but we need creativity to win the argument also.

conservative pilgrim on August 6, 2009 at 12:21 PM

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Something tells me the old man in Vatican City is going to have a big say and it will not be good for Obama. (See punking of Caroline Kennedy for Ambassador to Vatican City)

Dire Straits on August 6, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Unfortunately, the Vatican gave cover to Catholics on abortion. Decisions can be made weighing other considerations like “social justice”.

Laura in Maryland on August 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Social Justice? What could be more unjust than an unborn child (the ‘least of these’) being killed by his/her own mother in what should be the safest place on earth?

Many of those who talk about social justice are trying to distract us from the evil of abortion.

In the name of ‘voting out poverty,’ they voted for the slaughter of the next generation, and (although they lack the economic knowledge to realize it) for much more poverty.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:23 PM

So we pay to have American children killed. Then we’ll have a program that will allow seniors to die due to “policy.”

So we’ll have the State funded executioners, kill ‘em before they cost money in the beginning and then kill ‘em when they get too expensive at the end. This is an abomination.

Mojave Mark on August 6, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Wow, pro-lifers are coming out of the woodwork here.

With all the pro-choice libertarians on HA, I didn’t realize how many of us pro-lifers there were.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:24 PM

If the third temple was erected, it wouldn’t suprise me to see Obama walk in and demand to be worshipped.

daesleeper on August 6, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Obama’s administration makes me puke.

The most dishonest and deceitful administration, evah.

BuckeyeSam on August 6, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Cash For Clumpers

LibTired on August 6, 2009 at 11:39 AM

That is actually an effective, and timely way to put it to pro-choice folks. It is also grotesque, and that is why it is effective.

Medically necessary abortions would not need specific language in this bill, or any private insurance plan. This language to “cover abortions” is inserted specifically to cover an elective procedure.

Why are they only covering this one elective procedure? Other areas of the elective health care industry are suffering and if subsidized would provide a boost to the economy and the patient – cosmetic dental surgery, or hair implants, for example.

Why would any public plan cover an elective procedure at all? And if so, why this one?

batterup on August 6, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Unfortunately, the Vatican gave cover to Catholics on abortion. Decisions can be made weighing other considerations like “social justice”. I’d be willing to bet that non-Catholic doctors will be allowed to perform abortions in Catholic hopitals so their doors may remain open to the poor.

Laura in Maryland on August 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Sorry to have to disagree with you on this Laura, but the church’s positions on “social justice” decisions do not include abortion. And I very much doubt that Catholic hospitals will ever allow non-Catholic doctors to perform abortions in their facilities. The church has already said they will close the hospitals rather than provide abortions in any circumstances.

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Unfortunately, the Vatican gave cover to Catholics on abortion. Decisions can be made weighing other considerations like “social justice”. I’d be willing to bet that non-Catholic doctors will be allowed to perform abortions in Catholic hopitals so their doors may remain open to the poor.

Laura in Maryland on August 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM

I have a hard time believing that. My wife worked at a catholic hospital and wanted her tubes tied after our last child, and was told by her doctor that it wouldn’t happen for any reason, so abortion is going to be even tougher.

belad on August 6, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Why would any public plan cover an elective procedure at all? And if so, why this one?

batterup on August 6, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Because using contraception is terribly inconvenient.

And after paying the cable bill, cell phone bill, car payment, etc., the poverty-stricken masses cannot afford condoms.

/sarc

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:30 PM

I don’t really understand how Catholicism works. How much authority does the Pope have?

I worked briefly at a Catholic university. They had a ‘Sexual Orientation Diversity Alliance,’ and at least one openly lesbian professor. Has the Church changed its stance on homosexual behavior?

And why did a majority of Catholics vote for Obama?

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:33 PM

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 12:29 PM

belad on August 6, 2009 at 12:30 PM

I’m hoping you are all right. I’m thinking back to the election where a church official proclaimed that Catholics could use “social justice” and other considerations in making decisions giving cover to those voting for Dems.

I am not a Catholic, but I have always respected and appreciated their fight for the rights of unborn children.

Laura in Maryland on August 6, 2009 at 12:39 PM

And why did a majority of Catholics vote for Obama?

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:33 PM

They were like the American Jewish community. Now that the mask is off Der Leader they, as well as a lot of folks, are starting to see what is actually behind that mask.

Dire Straits on August 6, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Here is to waiting for the lanterns at Boston’s Old North Church.

Pelayo on August 6, 2009 at 12:19 PM

i was in that church not 4 days ago. I thought the same thing. I stood where Paul Revere was captured on the trail out to Concord. I stood at the bridge in Concord and asked myself, “What would a Patriot today do?”

ted c on August 6, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Obama is getting absolutely ripped by Rush today.

Ripped….

ted c on August 6, 2009 at 12:42 PM

I have come to the conclusion that the political party that decries “baby-killing” in anti-war propoganda isn’t against killing babies at all.

BobMbx on August 6, 2009 at 12:43 PM

Rush is on a bigtime Roll today. :)

Dire Straits on August 6, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Tedc, you are truly mi hermano.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:44 PM

And why did a majority of Catholics vote for Obama?

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:33 PM

CINOs (Catholic in name only)

BobMbx on August 6, 2009 at 12:45 PM

These children are American citizens – they have the identical rights we have: LIFE, Liberty & the pursuit of happiness.

Luke 17:2-3: It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves.

When we raise an entire generation of Americans with no moral compasses, no compassion, no conscience, then we net a zombie nation that does not value life in any form. It values only degradation, filth and decadence. These “people” have lost their souls; they truly believe a fetus is not alive and that pulling it apart, limb by limb, is their “right”.

Ris4victory on August 6, 2009 at 12:47 PM

HEY
HEY
BARACK HUSSEIN
HOW MANY KIDS HAVE YOU KILLED TODAY?

Chris_Balsz on August 6, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Ris4victory on August 6, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Oh, they have a moral compass; it’s just off by exactly 180 degrees.

Woe to those who call good evil, and evil good.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:51 PM

If abortion is such a huge “right” and harms no one then why does it need to be rare??

Ris4victory on August 6, 2009 at 12:54 PM

For those wondering how Obamacare will deal with the elderly and infirm, just take a look at Oregon. Oregon has a public health plan AND it has legal physician assisted suicide.

Right NOW, people on the Oregon Health Plan are receiving letters that deny them expensive treatments (Cancer, etc.), but inform them that the “health” plan WILL PAY FOR PHYSICIAN ASSISTED SUICIDE should they decide to go that way (vice going through the pain and suffering associated with non-treated cancer, etc).

If this passes, it will truly be a “death” plan paid for with our money. Death to the unborn, death to the elderly, death to the “too” sick and just a very, very short jump to death to the unperfect – be they obese, diabetic, Down’s, etc.

Fatal on August 6, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Idea

Get a picture of Pelosi and photoshop swastikas in her eyes…

Pelayo on August 6, 2009 at 12:59 PM

If this passes, it will truly be a “death” plan paid for with our money. Death to the unborn, death to the elderly, death to the “too” sick and just a very, very short jump to death to the unperfect – be they obese, diabetic, Down’s, etc.

Fatal on August 6, 2009 at 12:56 PM

They could refer to these people as, oh, I don’t know, “useless eaters.”

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:59 PM

If this passes, it will truly be a “death” plan paid for with our money. Death to the unborn, death to the elderly, death to the “too” sick and just a very, very short jump to death to the unperfect – be they obese, diabetic, Down’s, etc.

Fatal on August 6, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Read some of William Ayer’s and other Obama associates older writings on population control and you will be chilled.
The Climate Change crowd, pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia crowd fits right in with some of it. I’ve never been much for conspiracy theories, but to read some of the things the population control folks have written is scary and ties in with all of this mess.

BakerAllie on August 6, 2009 at 12:59 PM

An insurance salesman called Laura Ingraham this morning and he said that Health Savings Accounts are done away with in the new legislation. Does anyone know if that is true and why that would be?

Cindy Munford on August 6, 2009 at 1:00 PM

To our Catholic brethren who think that the Church will shut down and not sell the hospitals I have one word for you

Kelo.

chemman on August 6, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Has the Church changed its stance on homosexual behavior?

And why did a majority of Catholics vote for Obama?

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:33 PM

No, the Catholic church has not changed its stance re: homosexuality. The position is that, while we love and embrace all people (including homosexuals) as Jesus taught us, we do not condone homosexual behavior or activities and see them as sins.

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 1:20 PM

To our Catholic brethren who think that the Church will shut down and not sell the hospitals I have one word for you

Kelo.

chemman on August 6, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Bring it!

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 1:21 PM

It would allow the public plan to cover abortion but without using federal funds, only dollars from beneficiary premiums.

I see! So we’ll use “beneficiary premiums” to cover all the things federal funds aren’t supposed to cover, then use federal funds to cover all the things the beneficiary premiums would have covered if we hadn’t taken that money out. That way we can say taxpayers aren’t paying for it, even though they are.

I didn’t realize the Obama administration hired my ex-wife to handle the books.

taznar on August 6, 2009 at 1:24 PM

abortion on the front side
eugenics in the middle
physician-assisted suicide at the end

this should take care of global warming, over population, and everything else obambi believes in…..

whatzit2u on August 6, 2009 at 1:43 PM

as the Church changed its stance on homosexual behavior?

And why did a majority of Catholics vote for Obama?

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:33 PM

No, the Catholic church has not changed its stance re: homosexuality. The position is that, while we love and embrace all people (including homosexuals) as Jesus taught us, we do not condone homosexual behavior or activities and see them as sins.

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 1:20 PM

Why did all the Catholics vote for Obama? If Catholics followed their church doctrine – we would not have this insane man running our country!!!
AND by the way – the question was not about homosexuality

BTW- the bible says it is an abomination in the eyes of God. Love the sinner/hate the sin.

whatzit2u on August 6, 2009 at 1:47 PM

An insurance salesman called Laura Ingraham this morning and he said that Health Savings Accounts are done away with in the new legislation. Does anyone know if that is true and why that would be?

Cindy Munford on August 6, 2009 at 1:00 PM

I haven’t seen anything specifically addressing HSA’s, but common sense dictates that, since it’s a program designed by George Bush and it decreases Federal income tax revenues, it’s toast.

guntotinglibertarian on August 6, 2009 at 2:01 PM

we need to target everything they do, every little word they use.

ted c on August 6, 2009 at 11:51 AM

O/T: Speaking of which, White House: ‘War on terrorism’ is over

VibrioCocci on August 6, 2009 at 2:03 PM

Our hands our stained with blood, whether we like it or not.

May God have mercy upon me, and upon my nation.

jazz_piano on August 6, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Does the blood of the innocent aborted babies, like that of Abel the Just, cry out to Heaven for vengeance?

The “mobs” at the town-hall meetings are tame compared to what the Anointed O will face when he meets his Maker.

Steve Z on August 6, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Why did all the Catholics vote for Obama? If Catholics followed their church doctrine – we would not have this insane man running our country!!!
AND by the way – the question was not about homosexuality

BTW- the bible says it is an abomination in the eyes of God. Love the sinner/hate the sin.

whatzit2u on August 6, 2009 at 1:47 PM

You’re right, the question was not about homosexuality, it was about homosexual behavior. However, it was necessary to address the church’s stance on homsexuality in order to address its position on homosexual benavior which, as you point out is viewed as an abomination in God’s eyes and a sin.

You’re wrong though in saying that all the Catholics voted for Obama. Of Catholics who voted, 52% of them voted for Obama. They are what’s known as CINO’s (Catholic In Name Only). They are people like Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, etc. who proclaim their devoutness to the Catholic church to the world, then flout the church’s teachings at every opportunity.

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Why does it always have to come down to abortion? There are more than enough reasons to oppose this thing without waving that flag again. Nothing the Left would love more than to be able to say that only “scare tactics about abortion” stand between the American people and healthcare nirvana.

guntotinglibertarian on August 6, 2009 at 2:08 PM

Oops…hit the wrong “strong” buttons

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 2:08 PM

There’s a “lost generation” of Catholics in this country since Vatican II. They threw out the old Baltimore Catechism but didn’t write a new English version until 1996. While the FUNDAMENTALS have been taught, many Catholics have not been taught the Catholic culture.

Also Vatican II emphasized the Pope runs the church through his Bishops, and many Bishops aren’t clamping down hard.

So you have prominent Catholics like Kerry running around insisting the Church recognizes every human has their own conscience and makes their own choices (it also recognizes you have two God-given fists, and the Church won’t hesitate to preach about the right and wrong way to use them, either).

Catholic universities, even clergy at Catholic universities, are notably more liberal and eclectic about Catholic social teaching than the nursing orders. Have been for 1100 years. I don’t doubt there would be massive closures.

Chris_Balsz on August 6, 2009 at 2:09 PM

guntotinglibertarian on August 6, 2009 at 2:08 PM

You’re right, there are dozens of other reasons to oppose Obamacare, it’s just that this thread is about the abortion aspects of it.

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Just wait until Obamacare tells you that you MUST abort your baby because you already have a child, or your baby has Down’s Syndrome, or your baby will only have one arm, or whatever Obama doesn’t like. One perfect baby per woman, nothing more nothing less. It’s only fair to save the system $$$, not to mention Mother Earth.

SouthernGent on August 6, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Ding Ding Ding! I think we have a winner!

What they will do is only PAY for 1 baby’s prenatal care and ob care for mom…after 1 baby, in the name of fairness, after all, they will ONLY pay for an abortion. if you CHOOSE to have that baby, you can pay for it yourself.

JustTruth101 on August 6, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Welcome to Barry Obama’s abortion clinic. No fetus beat us yet.

Wyznowski on August 6, 2009 at 2:11 PM

You’re right, there are dozens of other reasons to oppose Obamacare, it’s just that this thread is about the abortion aspects of it.

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 2:10 PM

True enough, but still…

guntotinglibertarian on August 6, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Welcome to Barry Obama’s abortion clinic. No fetus beat us yet.

Wyznowski on August 6, 2009 at 2:11 PM

Well, the ones that did beat us we left on the utility room floor to die.

Trafalgar on August 6, 2009 at 2:13 PM

Why did all the Catholics vote for Obama? If Catholics followed their church doctrine – we would not have this insane man running our country!!!

You’re right when it comes to abortion, which is the overriding issue for this blue-state Catholic. But Catholic doctrine is complicated, and neither candidate satisfied it on all issues.

Catholic doctrine is pro-life at ALL stages of life, so the Church also opposes capital punishment, and lots of liberal Catholics kept trotting out the number of executions in Texas against President Bush.

The Church also has very “nuanced” rules about when war is justified (in self-defense or in case of an existential threat to one’s country or an ally). By applying the rules given in Pope John Paul II’s 1994 Catechism, a case could be made for or against the war in Iraq (the casus belli is borderline according to the Catechism) but Pope John Paul II opposed the war in Iraq in 2003, and for many blue-state Catholics, the war in Iraq was a more decisive factor against Bush (and McCain, who recommended the troop surge) than abortion.

By sheer weight of numbers of victims, abortion should be a much greater evil (over 40 million deaths since 1973) than the war in Iraq (less than 200,000 deaths on all sides) to Catholics, but they are not always equally well-informed on all issues. While the media gleefully reported any American casualties, as well “civilians” killed by bombs dropped on terrorist hideouts which just happened to stage a “wedding” the day the bomb hit, the media are silent on the million-plus abortion deaths every year, the equivalent of a 9/11 tragedy EVERY DAY in America.

The media (and some priests) tell Catholics that Bush and McCain are “war-mongers” and we need to “give peace a chance”, while Democrats promoted and bought the death of 40 million children (plus the children the 1970′s abortees would have had by now), and, like Pontius Pilate, wash their blood off their hands and claim innocence, in the name of “a woman’s right to choose”.

Why did some Catholics vote for Obama? They wanted to leave Babylon.

Steve Z on August 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Once and for all can we finally admit the fact that Catholicism is NOT a religion, but a cult, and it has nothing to do with Christianity.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Once and for all can we finally admit the fact that Catholicism is NOT a religion, but a cult, and it has nothing to do with Christianity.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM

The world’s oldest and largest Christian religion has nothing to do with Christianity? Who knew? Well, the rest of Christendom sure will be a puny, inconsequential remnant if we leave.

ChrisB on August 6, 2009 at 2:38 PM

The world’s oldest and largest Christian religion has nothing to do with Christianity? Who knew? Well, the rest of Christendom sure will be a puny, inconsequential remnant if we leave.

ChrisB on August 6, 2009 at 2:38 PM

Is there anyone left that actually practices it? If Catholics practiced Catholicism, Obama wouldn’t be in the White House.
So much for following the Pope.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 2:45 PM

Once and for all can we finally admit the fact that Catholicism is NOT a religion, but a cult, and it has nothing to do with Christianity.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM

God your retarded. I’m ashamed that your from the state as me.

Terry Silver on August 6, 2009 at 2:58 PM

By sheer weight of numbers of victims, abortion should be a much greater evil (over 40 million deaths since 1973) than the war in Iraq (less than 200,000 deaths on all sides) to Catholics, but they are not always equally well-informed on all issues. While the media gleefully reported any American casualties, as well “civilians” killed by bombs dropped on terrorist hideouts which just happened to stage a “wedding” the day the bomb hit, the media are silent on the million-plus abortion deaths every year, the equivalent of a 9/11 tragedy EVERY DAY in America.

The media (and some priests) tell Catholics that Bush and McCain are “war-mongers” and we need to “give peace a chance”, while Democrats promoted and bought the death of 40 million children (plus the children the 1970’s abortees would have had by now), and, like Pontius Pilate, wash their blood off their hands and claim innocence, in the name of “a woman’s right to choose”.

Why did some Catholics vote for Obama? They wanted to leave Babylon.

Steve Z on August 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM

You’re seriously trying to say that Catholics have no idea that there have been 40 million dead innocent babies since 1973. These are INNOCENT SOULS. In fact, up until recently in Catholic teaching, they weren’t even given the rite of Baptism, assuring them of an afterlife in hell, or Purgatory or whatever they’re calling it now, never being with our Lord.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Is there anyone left that actually practices it? If Catholics practiced Catholicism, Obama wouldn’t be in the White House.
So much for following the Pope.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 2:45 PM

70 million finest Americans. You seem to be laboring under the mistaken impression that America’s and the world’s largest Christian religion is a political action committee. No. The pope does not endorse political candidates. The job of Catholicism it to obey Jesus’s teachings.

John McCain should be president under any circumstances. All that required was for the 65 million voting Americans who elected Obama to vote differently. One need not be Catholic to see that.

ChrisB on August 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

70 million finest Americans. You seem to be laboring under the mistaken impression that America’s and the world’s largest Christian religion is a political action committee. No. The pope does not endorse political candidates. The job of Catholicism it to obey Jesus’s teachings.

It’s Jesus’ teachings to follow Satan?

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 3:06 PM

Obama supports not only infanticide, but the murder of a poor innocent soul that made it past the abortionist, only to be left to die in a supply room. If this isn’t supporting SATAN, nothing is.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 3:11 PM

Obama calling up his Catholic backers to fight those that fight government funded abortion.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Jeff from WI,

You are a moron. It’s you protestants fault that obama was elected.You protestant sectarians voted for Obama in even greater numbers than the vatican catholics did!

As for us Orthodox Christians, we voted against Obama in far greater percentages than any other religion. If you would have followed our lead obama would not be president today.

MaximusConfessor on August 6, 2009 at 3:21 PM

ObamaCare would use tax money for abortions

Didn’t we already know this for quite some time now?

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 6, 2009 at 3:33 PM

You’re seriously trying to say that Catholics have no idea that there have been 40 million dead innocent babies since 1973. These are INNOCENT SOULS. In fact, up until recently in Catholic teaching, they weren’t even given the rite of Baptism, assuring them of an afterlife in hell, or Purgatory or whatever they’re calling it now, never being with our Lord.

My grandmother had a late miscarriage in the 1950s and the baptism preceded the funeral. How “recently” are you talking about? Vatican I in 1870?

Is there anyone left that actually practices it? If Catholics practiced Catholicism, Obama wouldn’t be in the White House.
So much for following the Pope.

That indicts American “Catholics” for ignoring Catholicism, not Catholicism.

Chris_Balsz on August 6, 2009 at 3:35 PM

That indicts American “Catholics” for ignoring Catholicism, not Catholicism.

Chris_Balsz on August 6, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Well,let me re-state. In this country, Catholicism is a cult, NOT a religion, and has nothing to do with Christianity.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Jeff from WI,

You are a moron. It’s you protestants fault that obama was elected.You protestant sectarians voted for Obama in even greater numbers than the vatican catholics did!

As for us Orthodox Christians, we voted against Obama in far greater percentages than any other religion. If you would have followed our lead obama would not be president today.

MaximusConfessor on August 6, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Hey buddy, first, I was talking about American Catholics, not Greek or Eastern Orthodox, which make up nothing in percentage in the United States. Second, there’s LOT’S of “Protestant scum” too.

Jeff from WI on August 6, 2009 at 4:02 PM

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