Senate set to expand expensive, wasteful government program; Update: “Clunkers” green impact even lamer than thought
posted at 9:06 pm on August 4, 2009 by Allahpundit
Fearless prediction: You might be seeing this headline a few dozen more times between now and 2012. In this case, though, the expensive, wasteful boondoggle in question is Cash for Clunkers:
The Senate will vote to extend the popular “cash-for-clunkers” program before going home on Friday, Majority Leader Harry Reid declared Tuesday in a strong signal the government won’t let the trade-in rebates die under the surging demand that has almost exhausted federal backing.
Reid’s GOP counterpart, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, predicted his party would not block a vote and “the matter will be completed.”…
Backers of the program picked up support from three other lawmakers who wanted the program limited to the purchase of even more fuel-efficient vehicles.
The fuel efficiency gains helped sway Democrats Dianne Feinstein of California and Chuck Schumer of New York, and Republican Susan Collins of Maine, who had complained that smaller rebates of $3,500 were going to people buying new cars that get as little as 4 more miles per gallon than the gas-guzzlers they traded in.
Fun fact that we haven’t emphasized before in our posts on this: Not only is the program destroying usable cars in the name of making the Earth a tiny bit greener, but it may actually end up making the Earth less green. In addition to the point Ed made this morning about owners being more likely to drive new cars, there’s a double environmental whammy lurking here. The money for the program is coming out of the Department of Energy’s share of the stimulus, leaving less cash left for them to apply towards green technology, and the process of manufacturing new cars while junking clunkers is apt to consume more energy than is saved by consumers trading up for more fuel-efficient cars. As for the stimulus effect, that’s mostly hype too:
An analysis by Macroeconomic Advisers forecasts that the program will affect only the timing of car sales, not total sales: “In particular, we expect that roughly half of the 250,000 in new sales would have occurred in the months following the conclusion of the program, and the other half would have occurred during the program period anyway. Therefore, we do not expect a boost to industry-wide production (or GDP) in response to this program.”…
The rebate program is … emblematic of the administration’s unwise approaches to economic policymaking. It borrows money to generate economic activity, which in effect borrows growth from the future, since eventually that loan will have to be paid back through higher taxes.
In short, what we’ve got here is a giveaway of taxpayer money that likely won’t achieve either its economic or its environmental goal, yet which has been spun as such a runaway “success” that we’re about to plow $2 billion more into it with god knows how much to come after that. Good work, Barry.
Update: Here’s what we’re spending $3 billion to achieve.
“Cash for clunkers” could have the same effect on global warming pollution as shutting down the entire country — every automobile, every factory, every power plant — for an hour per year. That could rise to three hours if the program is extended by Congress and remains as popular as it is now.
Climate experts aren’t impressed.
Compared to overall carbon dioxide emissions in the United States, the pollution savings from cash for clunkers do not noticeably move the fuel gauge. Environmental experts say the program — conceived primarily to stimulate the economy and jump-start the auto industry — is not an effective way to attack climate change.









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Gee, this was way fast.
Zip through that last post, eh?
AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Yes, and as been said:
If they can’t run Cash For Clunkers efficiently, they shouldn’t even dream ever about running health care!
INC on August 4, 2009 at 9:10 PM
If the Republicans won’t stop this, then they won’t even try to stop Obamacare. They don’t have the guts.
SouthernGent on August 4, 2009 at 9:12 PM
GOP caves again.
Wethal on August 4, 2009 at 9:13 PM
You know, the banks are the ones who are financing all these new loans…
Weight of Glory on August 4, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Look on the bright side Allah, that ‘Vette you’ve been longing for is still a VERY good possibility!!!
Delaware Vol on August 4, 2009 at 9:14 PM
You’re wrong–most do have the guts. But they don’t have the numbers. Maybe a few Dems will help us.
jgapinoy on August 4, 2009 at 9:14 PM
They want to nationalize healthcare. They don’t give a rat’s ass about running it afterward. Just so long as you and I are forced to give up our freedoms to the political class in order to see a doctor.
highhopes on August 4, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Worst Administration EVER.
FireBlogger on August 4, 2009 at 9:16 PM
I think maybe I’m learning that my exploratin into the GOP was interesting, worthwhile, and also nuts on my part.
I’m just never going to be conservative.
It’s hopeless.
You aren’t anymore nuts to me than the left is.
Both of you, who some how have captured all the attention…
even remotely attract me.
Dumb ole’ moderate.
I really must find some place which understands my type.
AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Kennedy and Byrd are still out sick. If the GOP had held firm, they’d have defeated a cloture vote. But I suppose the Maine girls and Miss Lindsay were their usual RINO selves.
Wethal on August 4, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Mitch McConnell wears panties with lace on them. Probably the initial of the day of the week too.
suzyk on August 4, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Oh sorry, I read the headline and thought this was about social security.
TugboatPhil on August 4, 2009 at 9:17 PM
They’ll simply take or print more.
Weight of Glory on August 4, 2009 at 9:17 PM
The sad thing is a lot of people who got roped in by this program are going to probably have their new cars repo-ed and then they will be a foot.
TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Or ask the Chinese to buy more bonds.
Wethal on August 4, 2009 at 9:18 PM
I really must find some place which understands my type.
AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Please. Leave. Now.
ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Feeling buyer’s remorse Allah? You helped the rat bastard traitor filthy liar get to the White House by attacking all the candidates that might have united and energized the GOP. All because of your intolerance of social conservatives. You bought Obama’s presence in high office by your attacks on Romney in particular. Enjoy the fruits of your distruction.
highhopes on August 4, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Mitch McConnell wears panties with lace on them. Probably the initial of the day of the week too.
suzyk on August 4, 2009 at 9:17 PM
That is not a good visual.
TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 9:19 PM
People in Maine must be really stupid to elect that Olympia Snowe that looks like she should be on a broom and Susan Collins that talks like she should be in special education classes.
suzyk on August 4, 2009 at 9:19 PM
2nd that.
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:19 PM
yup.
Weight of Glory on August 4, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Ann is
beginning to post
like getalife
I wish
She would leave
CWforFreedom on August 4, 2009 at 9:20 PM
This does not surprise me. Obama told people to go right on selling cars with this program. I wonder what those dealers would have done if the money had not been forthcoming? That is one way to get the money, just set about spending it anyway.
Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 9:20 PM
how many auto bailouts does this make? and how many billions to the auto companies does this make?
It’s almost as if Obama has a vested interest in this one industry more than any other of the many industries in the USA….
Ampersand on August 4, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Contact your senators—
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
CWforFreedom on August 4, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Good lord! Are those tears?
DerKrieger on August 4, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Someone save this next time a Palinista claims AP is in the tank for Mittens.
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:21 PM
By all means do so. Posting in an echo chamber is precisely what you need to be doing since you never change the same few talking points gleaned from the DNC.
highhopes on August 4, 2009 at 9:21 PM
I think the American public’s dismal understanding of economics is going to drive us off a cliff.
DerKrieger on August 4, 2009 at 9:22 PM
I’m not a Palin fan either. She was as much of a gimmick as electing “the black one.”
highhopes on August 4, 2009 at 9:22 PM
ya want the number of my ex’s psychiatrist?
bloviator on August 4, 2009 at 9:22 PM
You brought the fire and brimstone on yourself… take cover… ;)
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:23 PM
You do have a point, though. We’re not gonna get anywhere by tearing apart the top runners. If one doesn’t like them, don’t vote for them, but one doesn’t have to rip them to shreds.
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:24 PM
I hear through the grapevine that the Whine House needs a cucumber cleaner. Interested?
hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 9:24 PM
I’m putting in a grant request for breaking windows.
jukin on August 4, 2009 at 9:25 PM
suzyk:
The last time I heard McConnel talk about this, he was not supportive. Has that changed? Otherwise why talk about panties?
Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Have you tried a sofa full of stoned teenagers in Berkeley?
Chuck Schick on August 4, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Yet another thread you need to hijack like a true narcissist. My GOD how many posts have you done today?!?! I’ve gone to lunch with the wife. Had a coffee at the book store. Even had a couple beers at the bar down the block. What have you done today? Every time I get on HotAir I see yet another thread you have hijacked to talk about yourself.
Ampersand on August 4, 2009 at 9:25 PM
People here are taking junkers in, trading them in (who knows where they are getting the money, but I have my suspicions). Then, they are selling them and making a couple quick thousand dollars taking sales out of the “foreign” dealerships. That’s who’s busy – Toyota, VW and Hyundai. Scam.
suzyk on August 4, 2009 at 9:25 PM
If a bank that received TARP loans you the money for a new car under this program, does the “American taxpayer” own your new car?
Weight of Glory on August 4, 2009 at 9:27 PM
This does nothing for the poor who need help. This just benefits the auto unions and the people who were already in the market for a new car in a bad economy.
Ampersand on August 4, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Clearly only fringe elements think Cash 4 Clunkers is a stooopid idea.
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:30 PM
suzyk:
Believe it or not, a couple of days ago McCain was saying that it would only be a matter of time before we started hearing about the speculators and other people gaming the system.
I think I heard today that it was about 50/50 on foreign/domestic. They are selling a lot of Ford Focus models too.
This might help the quarterly numbers, but I don’t see how it can have a lasting effect on car sales.
Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Interesting take.
It is so clear to me.
An obvious benefit.
But you think it’s a scam.
Boy, we sure think differently.
AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Ampersand:
The poor can not afford the plates and insurance and sales tax on a new car.
Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Maybe when they melt down the old cars and make them into coins, they can ;)
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:33 PM
C’mon. This program isn’t going to help the economy. It isn’t going to help the U.S automakers noticably. It isn’t going to do anything to alter the amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere, except for the bloviating emissions from DC.
Let’s call it what it is: a failed attempt to placate the unions to which The Jug-eared One is beholden.
Fail.
P.S. To those of you who think this is a fine idea, you’re more than welcome to pay my share of taxes that is going toward this
rabbit holetoilet bowl of a program.hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 9:33 PM
I emailed both of my Republican senators asking that they deny further funding for c4c. One sent me a form email explaining the program but didn’t indicate how he will vote.
farright on August 4, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Ann might not be able to… She’s waiting for the Gubmint Check herself.
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Government incompetence vs Government malfeasance…
Incompetence always wins
tjexcite on August 4, 2009 at 9:35 PM
the poor need the cars that are being destroyed… Or they could at least use the money to put towards a better used car. If you can afford a new car right now, even with a $4500 discount, then you don’t need a government handout. And I say that who is thinking looking for a new car for my wife… to bad she wont be getting anything that has better gas mileage than what she has now…
Ampersand on August 4, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Yeah, I know, and I should have worded that differently!
INC on August 4, 2009 at 9:39 PM
I’d really like to see Biden give President Obama one of those palms to the head like in the V8 commercials.
BadgerHawk on August 4, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Whats next,by Team Hopey,more so-called fuel efficient
outboard motors,lawnmowers,weed-wackers,hedgetrimmers,
small garden tillers,leaf blowers… …
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Sheriff Joe is now Mr. Goodwrench
faraway on August 4, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Exactly.
ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 9:45 PM
ya knoooow,…rejecting this is akin to dangling a noose in the general direction of Barry. Did you know he’s the first black president?
Alden Pyle on August 4, 2009 at 9:45 PM
Fuel efficient i-pods… I called it!
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:47 PM
BTW,the Left is busy,
ABORTING AUTOMOBLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What will thy ABORT NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 9:48 PM
We can only hope the presidency… but something tells me Nancy would freeze Hell over first.
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Whats next,by Team Hopey,more so-called fuel efficient
outboard motors,lawnmowers,weed-wackers,hedgetrimmers,
small garden tillers,leaf blowers… …
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Fuel efficient i-pods… I called it!
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Upstater85: D*mmit UPS85,your always one step ahead!!:)
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 9:50 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/2172971104_49b956c3e7.jpg?v=0
Lady Texan on August 4, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Terrye, you are right. My position is that owning a vehicle isn’t anymore of an inalienable right than nationalized healthcare. America doesn’t owe anyone either a car or free medical care.
It gets lost in all the high-fiving from the second stimulus package for the auto industry but the whole point of this program was give people who own less eco-friendly vehicles an incentive to trade them in on something more green. It was never about bailing out auto dealers or sending Obama motors some business (the filthy liar is hiding the fact that most of these dollars went to non-American nameplates). The program fulfilled its purpose and should end.
What is most apalling to me is the way the program is set up so that perfectly good cars are being destroyed without discretion. The guidelines should have had a little more latitude, perhaps a trade-in version of C4C where one can trade in a car even worse for one of these orphans at cost.
highhopes on August 4, 2009 at 9:52 PM
BTW,the Left is busy,
ABORTING AUTOMOBLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What will thy ABORT NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 9:48 PM
We can only hope the presidency… but something tells me Nancy would freeze Hell over first.
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Upstater85: I see a protest slogan there!
Abort the President! hehe:)
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 9:53 PM
The left is aborting automobiles and granny’s future isn’t looking all that bright.
highhopes on August 4, 2009 at 9:53 PM
Gotta think like an Obama Appointee!!!
Upstater85 on August 4, 2009 at 9:54 PM
Coming soon to a gulag near you?
I can’t wait for the new I-Phone, complete with solar panels incorporated in a sleek new beanie which will be “hardly noticable.”
Progress.
hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 9:54 PM
I think I found it.
CWforFreedom on August 4, 2009 at 9:54 PM
And the top models being purchased are not American.
And the poor, who we were told would benefit most as Congress sought to justify the program are not being helped one bit. First, if they are driving a clunker, perhaps they cannot afford to get one of those $20-$30k green cars? Nor can they benefit by walking into a dealership and purchasing a newer model clunker because it was just relegated to the shredder.
From what I have been reading, it appears those in the $75-250k income group are the ones who headed down to the local dealership to take advantage of the free money given them by Congress.
coldwarrior on August 4, 2009 at 9:55 PM
Anyone thought about trading in a $100 car for a $4500 subsidy, and then taking that little car to a different dealership and trading it in for a car you really want? Could that work?
BadgerHawk on August 4, 2009 at 9:55 PM
I wonder if one trades in a vehicle with a book value of 1k and they over given over 4k for it can the difference be seen as income and taxed?
CWforFreedom on August 4, 2009 at 9:57 PM
I really must find some place which understands my type.
AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Here’s the perfect place for you moron.
txag92 on August 4, 2009 at 9:58 PM
I’ll pack your bags for you if you want. :-)
Rightwingguy on August 4, 2009 at 9:58 PM
Trading it not so much but turning around and selling it privately might. Trading in your vehicle is normally not economically smart unless of course you are trading with the US Government.
CWforFreedom on August 4, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Wow…that was mean… and I LOL’ed.
Rightwingguy on August 4, 2009 at 10:01 PM
I know
I feel badly
/s
CWforFreedom on August 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 9:48 PM
The left is aborting automobiles and granny’s future isn’t looking all that bright.
highhopes on August 4, 2009 at 9:53 PM
highhopes:Obama wants to bring Sweden(euthanasia)to
America!!!!:)
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Exactly.
This has nothing to do with stimulus, or helping folks who could use a boost, or even the “holy grail” of saving the planet.
It is bullshit from top to bottom, with a little bullshit in between.
It is a flailing, failing attempt to justify their earlier miscalculations, and it is not fooling very many people if the folks I encounter every day are any measure.
hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 10:03 PM
Old People! After all Pinnochio is for abortion anywhere anytime even up to the 456th trimester and especially if the old people happen to be freedom loving Americans!
dhunter on August 4, 2009 at 10:04 PM
Our parents, at least they’re trying.
Christian Conservative on August 4, 2009 at 10:07 PM
Coming soon to a gulag near you?
I can’t wait for the new I-Phone, complete with solar panels incorporated in a sleek new beanie which will be “hardly noticable.”
Progress.
hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 9:54 PM
hillbillyjim: And a global positioning chip,to know percise
ly where you are!!!ahem:)
canopfor on August 4, 2009 at 10:08 PM
This is nothing more than another transfer of wealth scheme…. take tax money from one group and give it to another. Or, as some of us like to call it, steal from some to give to some others. Surprised ACORN members don’t get a special “extra” rebate.
n0doz on August 4, 2009 at 10:13 PM
Correct! I remember before cash for clunkers dealer incentives higher than $4500, no trade in thus no destruction of a product some high school, college kid, or poor person could afford.
Prior to C4C any individual willing to do the leg work could get the same or better deal no trade in.
This farce bails out only the unions and perhaps Govt owned mfgrs TEPORARILY!
Once demand is satisfied it will take a long time to regenerate it. Years in terms of todays autos’. Thus eventually the Unions and dealers will still starve as they have not become competitive versus the competition as the free market would have forced them to do.
This is more about buying off the unions as is exempting them from the Gov’t HealthScare bill.
This program is unsutainable and will so damage the free market as to guarantee failure of an automaker or two. Most likely the Gov’t bailed out two.
dhunter on August 4, 2009 at 10:15 PM
Might want to try sobering up and putting out your coon dog before you post again.
Dark-Star on August 4, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Talk to NASA.
Jim Treacher on August 4, 2009 at 10:20 PM
What a surprise. Cash for Clunkers was never really about the environment or global warming. That’s the fig leaf. It was about a) a government giveaway to win votes in the future, b) Keynesian “stimulus”, and c) payback for the unions.
Of course, that opens the door to call the program a failure, since it can never live up to the stated purpose of the program.
ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on August 4, 2009 at 10:22 PM
I’m waiting for the fallout 6 months from now, when the auto dealers start repossessing cars from people who shouldn’t have purchased them in the first place. How many of those sales people will be let go in a couple of months, when those predisposed to purchase a new vehicle have already done so and no one else is showing up in the sales office?
GarandFan on August 4, 2009 at 10:24 PM
You sound like the man complaining, “My wife doesn’t understand me.”
ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on August 4, 2009 at 10:24 PM
Oh, now your a moderate, which makes you a….Romneyite.
Well if you are really a woman, that makes sense. Mitt is a tall good-lookin guy with a missin testicle so you can push him around. Perfect beta for CA.
Sapwolf on August 4, 2009 at 10:33 PM
GOLD!
daesleeper on August 4, 2009 at 10:35 PM
Look how far we’ve come:
–government ownership of industries
–government ownership of banks
–government rewarding the destruction of viable automobiles
–government insuring destruction of said automobiles, rather than allowing them to bring the market price down to levels helpful to the poorest among us
–government mandating renovations to privately owned homes
–government poised to take over health care decisions which logically belong in the hands of patients and doctors
————————————————————-
What’s next?
hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Look how far we’ve come. Godawfulisticalmighty hell.
hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 10:45 PM
You can criticize this program all you like as government waste and all. But the truth is, it’s the ONLY stimulus that’s had any positive effect on the economy.
If we cancel the rest of the money from porkulus and forget about porkulus 2, and just put 2 billion more into the clunker program we’ll have a small but effective injection into the economy.
It gets people that have credit using it. These people can afford it, it’s a good thing.
Whether it goes to American or foreign car makers makes little difference, it means the plants are busier and inventories are dropping.
I don’t CARE about the ‘green’ part of it, as loose logic rules in Washington anyway, they bumbled and stumbled on something that nudged the economy a teeny bit forward, and Ford wins too. I’m for that.
It’s the only good money spent in 8 months and it’s all we’re gonna see before taxes shoot through the roof, so shut up and enjoy.
Spiritk9 on August 5, 2009 at 12:20 AM
A billion there, 2-3 billion here.
Soon, you’re talking about real money.
Techie on August 5, 2009 at 12:21 AM
Any post of yours is worth skipping.
Spiritk9 on August 5, 2009 at 12:21 AM
Why, did fantasy land kick you out?
xblade on August 5, 2009 at 12:32 AM
Actually, the math is much worse than that article implies. The program was supposed to save oil and reduce pollution. So lets look at it from a fossil fuel point of view.
According to Ford (and some others) a mid-sized car or small truck is about 79GJ (gigajoules) to produce and recycle. That’s about 22,000 kW’s. Since 1 Gallon of crude = 17 KW, that means it takes about 1294 Gallons of crude to produce the car.
(Some people bad at math will tell you a gallon of crude is about 40kWh in pure energy, but our oil power plants are only 42% efficient)
Now, assume 12K miles/year and 24 mpg (both EPA averages) = 500 Gallons/year (consumption)
Assume your trade-in gives you 4 mpg better (far more than the minimum of 1 mpg required for Cash-for-clunkers). That’s about 16% = 80 gallons / year saved.
So 80 gallons saved to get to 1294 = a break even of 16.175 years (best case).
However, many people only keep a car for 5-10 years (meaning the new car is always a loss). If they were going to keep their car an extra 5 years before they traded in, then you lost 894 gallons of oil (and pollutants) for each cash for clunkers car.
Lastly, that was assuming that the new car in 5 years wasn’t any more efficient than the car they bought today (but with new EPA standards coming in, thats unlikely). So if we’d been patient and people had waiting a few years, the new cars would be cleaner still — so you not only would have saved the 894 gallons wasted (over 5 years), but you would have hit the natural trade-in cycle, and someone probably would have bought an even MORE efficient car on their own.
Plus to do this program you had to what? Tax or borrow. If you hadn’t have done that, that money would be doing something a lot more efficient on it’s own then burning oil for Watermelon’s egos (green on the outside, red on the inside). Imagine if that $3B had been left creating jobs instead of being a burden on the economy.
suzy.denim@gmail.com on August 5, 2009 at 12:38 AM
THEY’RE spending $3 billion to buy votes. That’s all. No noble causes… just more votes from people who’ve figured out how to get their snouts into the trough.
jana on August 5, 2009 at 12:40 AM
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