Obama energy policies will hike prices by 20%

posted at 3:24 pm on August 4, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Barack Obama recently claimed — incorrectly — that he had yet to sign a bill that raised taxes, but the worst burdens will avoid the clear label of taxation.  A new study by the Energy Information Administration, an arm of the Department of Energy, determines that the cap-and-trade bill passed by the House in June would hike energy costs to consumers by 20% by 2025.  It also finds that the bill would not actually reduce so-called greenhouse-gas emissions in the near term:

Electricity prices would rise 20 percent by 2030 under climate legislation being considered in Congress, according to a draft study by a U.S. energy agency.

The report, to be issued by the Energy Information Administration, also says that polluting companies would initially meet most greenhouse gas reduction targets by sponsoring forestry and agriculture projects rather than cutting their own emissions. Even with the development of technologies designed to capture carbon dioxide from coal-fired power plants, gas and nuclear-fueled power generation will take market share, the report says.

The measure, passed by the House and under consideration by the Senate, is likely to increase electricity prices to 12 cents per kilowatt hour in 2030, or 20 percent higher than the cost if there is no climate law, using 2007 dollars. Before 2025, the price would go up 3 to 4 percent, the study says.

The EIA is an independent agency within the Energy Department which analyzes energy issues without advocating administration policy.

Bear in mind that the EIA is estimating direct costs to the consumer,  not the entire economic impact of cap-and-trade.  The direct costs to each family will hit $204 per family each year until 2020 and then rapidly increase to $522 per household by 2030.  The CBO analysis shows that the costs would be at $175 annually per household — in direct costs.

However, energy costs get folded into every product and service provided in the marketplace.  Energy cost increases magnify through the distribution chain, forcing prices higher and higher at each step.  When manufacturers have to pay higher prices for their energy, their product prices go up, as does the markup at the distributor and the retailer.  We saw this dynamic during the rapid increase in gasoline prices in 2007-8, as food prices especially escalated due to the cost of trucking produce and groceries to markets.

Several estimates of the total impact of cap-and-trade have been published, with some estimates as high as $3200 per year per household.  The EIA also notes that the bill will exert a negative influence on the economy, reducing the GDP from 2012 to 2030 by 0.2% as energy costs curtail production.  It will cost jobs, not create them, and slow or reverse improvements in the American standard of living.  In short, it’s a recipe for economic stagnation and misery, in service to a climate-change model that has increasingly been exposed as erroneous and ill-considered.  Voters can reasonably ask why they’re being asked to shoulder this kind of pain for a nonexistent cause.

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“So, if somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can — it’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.”

“Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Coal-powered plants, you know, natural gas, you name it, whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.”

powerpro on August 4, 2009 at 3:28 PM

These are not the taxes you’re looking for

CMonster on August 4, 2009 at 3:29 PM

The CBO analysis shows that the costs would be at $175 annually per household — in direct costs.

Or, as liberals call it, economic stimulus.

lorien1973 on August 4, 2009 at 3:30 PM

…’not one single dime’….

*sigh*

cmsinaz on August 4, 2009 at 3:32 PM

20%… way low IMO.

Key is that under the new legislation it will be very difficult, to impossible, to build any new power plants.

With Electricity needs skyrocketing as we move to plug in electric vehicles (if you convert the energy in a barrel of oil, to KWH, we use about 130% of the total electricity generated in America for transportation… meaning we will have to at LEAST double electricity production) and no new reliable electricity sources (neither wind nor solar is RELIABLE)….

Its going to be a LOT more that 20% increase IMO.

Romeo13 on August 4, 2009 at 3:33 PM

it’s a recipe for economic stagnation and misery,

just add beer

cmsinaz on August 4, 2009 at 3:34 PM

This is the ploy Romney used, and many others use. They impose a “fee”, but the fee is so widespread it is basically a tax.
The others do it so they don’t have to vote on it, Obama is doing it begins he is a liar.
A subtle difference, but a difference.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 3:34 PM

I think I need my cupcake now…

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:34 PM

How’s that ‘Hope and Change’ working out for everyone……..?

Seven Percent Solution on August 4, 2009 at 3:34 PM

I’M SO EXCITED!

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Voters can reasonably ask why they’re being asked to shoulder this kind of pain for a nonexistent cause.

The answer is, the only one they have is: We Won!

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Pretty sure this guy is going to be the worst President ever. Jimmy should be thankful.

Thunderstorm129 on August 4, 2009 at 3:35 PM

LIAR, LIAR

whatzit2u on August 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM

I thought disincentivising energy consumption was one of the core stated planks of energy reform…isnt this how you do it?

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Most of the people on here will be really old in 16 years. What do you care if you freeze to death? That’s the best way to go they say…

dcwvu on August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Most of the people on here will be really old in 16 years. What do you care if you freeze to death? That’s the best way to go they say…

dcwvu on August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM

There will have to capital punishment for burning trees to keep me from staying warm

CMonster on August 4, 2009 at 3:39 PM

Alright US economy…tie your hands behind your back…good…now hop on one leg… bark like a dog… a big dog… good.

NickelAndDime on August 4, 2009 at 3:39 PM

It’s not a tax. It’s a Federal program that collects fees from private businesses in part to increase revenues to the government. Why can’t you people see the difference!

/sarc off

29Victor on August 4, 2009 at 3:40 PM

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Such a good libertarian you are, ernesto ;)

lorien1973 on August 4, 2009 at 3:41 PM

…’not one single dime’….

*sigh*

cmsinaz on August 4, 2009 at 3:32 PM

That wasn’t a lie. Not one single dime — LOTS and LOTS of dimes.

Daggett on August 4, 2009 at 3:41 PM

So rapidly rising energy prices on top of a weak dollar and double digit inflation just over the horizon?

Buy some land and hunker down.

BadgerHawk on August 4, 2009 at 3:41 PM

OT: Where we’re headed if we don’t stop these statists:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/

powerpro on August 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM

I voted for Obama because he cares about my well being unlike the greedy, rich republicans.

daesleeper on August 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM

‘Disincentivizing energy consumption’ is not an authorized role of the fedgov, hence such action is illegal.

Silly of me to suggest enforcing the law, but hope springs eternal.

LimeyGeek on August 4, 2009 at 3:43 PM

ernesto

you should know better!

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:43 PM

The government’s “children’s secretary” Ed Balls is behind the plan

I just shat myself

LimeyGeek on August 4, 2009 at 3:44 PM

lol

ed balls

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:45 PM

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:43 PM

Im not making any value judgements here…I was just under the impression that this was never something they tried to hide, rather, it was a stated part of the design…

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:45 PM

poor guy must have taken so much shi’ite in skrool

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:45 PM

“determines that the cap-and-trade bill passed by the House in June would hike energy costs to consumers by 20% by 2025″

Adjusted for Obamaflation, that’s more like 250%. Get your wheelbarrows ready.

Dusty on August 4, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Most of the people on here will be really old in 16 years. What do you care if you freeze to death? That’s the best way to go they say…

dcwvu on August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Speak for yourself, I will still be middle-ageish………..

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Now look Ed, I think we’ve had just about enough of these facts today…. Now, don’t make me turn you into the White House for factual data distribution!!!

Delaware Vol on August 4, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Finally, a topic I can join hands with you all about. Of course, it won’t reduce emission, and of course it will raise taxes in hidden and not-so-hidden ways.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 3:47 PM

This has got to stop..!

d1carter on August 4, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Voters can reasonably ask why they’re being asked to shoulder this kind of pain for a nonexistent cause.

That’s an easy one. It never was about climate. The left saw AGW as their silver bullet that they hoped would kill the beast of capitalism once and fro all. To bad it looks like it just may have worked.

jmarcure on August 4, 2009 at 3:48 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Oh, wow. Ann agrees with us.

What a red-letter day!!!!ELEVENTY!!!

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:48 PM

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:48 PM

You and me both have been in trouble today. We might get put in time-out.

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:50 PM

“I thought disincentivising energy consumption was one of the core stated planks of energy reform”

[ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM]

Who’s energy reform? Certainly not mine nor I’d suggest the current minority in Congress. But the latter is gong to change soon.

Dusty on August 4, 2009 at 3:51 PM

So the “not raising taxes” meme is slowly crumbling? How will Dear Leader explain this one — oh, yeah, Booosh.

lovedinthekeys on August 4, 2009 at 3:51 PM

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:45 PM

just giving you a hard time about being blazed and having the guy with shrooms in the car :p

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Speak for yourself, I will still be middle-ageish………..

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:45 PM

like a fine bordeaux

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:52 PM

Save us, Octavius!

Wyznowski on August 4, 2009 at 3:52 PM

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:50

Perfect! Then I will have time to eat my cupcake.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:52 PM

like a fine bordeaux

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:52 PM

That’s the way I see it anyway.

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Dusty on August 4, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Obviously the democrats. To be fair, I wasn’t aware there were any energy “reform” ideas from the GOP. Outside of drill baby drill that is ;-)

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:51 PM

being a musician, i thought you’d appreciate mind expansion…oh well :-P

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Perfect! Then I will have time to eat my cupcake.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:52 PM

Are you sharing?

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:50

Still, Texas in the summer with no A/C?

I don’t think so!

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:54 PM

Are you sharing?

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Sure! I always have plenty of cupcakes…the stimulus plan, ya know.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:54 PM

being a musician, i thought you’d appreciate mind expansion…oh well :-P

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

a legitimate assumption

im just a beer/wine guy

That’s the way I see it anyway.

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:55 PM

LimeyGeek on August 4, 2009 at 3:43 PM

Your grievances have their roots in practically ancient times (relatively speaking)…but certainly in a perfect world it’d be nice to have things done the proper way, which states leading the policy front on these matters. If only voting GOP changed any of that…alas, it never has, and never will…so hope on

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:55 PM

It’s not like he didn’t warn us or anything……

……… and just listen to all those people cheering.

Kinda warms your heart…….

……….. doesn’t it?

Seven Percent Solution on August 4, 2009 at 3:55 PM

That’s the way I see it anyway.

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

i forgot what i was going to say

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:55 PM

being a musician, i thought you’d appreciate mind expansion…oh well :-P

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Was Pink Floyd involved with this mind expansion?

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Good thing that people that make less than $250K don’t use any electricity……

JeffinOrlando on August 4, 2009 at 3:56 PM

i forgot what i was going to say

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Wow! That pithy, huh?

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Obama energy policies will hike prices by 20%

The Hell you say?

CynicalOptimist on August 4, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Still, Texas in the summer with no A/C?

I don’t think so!

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:54 PM

We are 100+ today and for the next three. I go outside only to get in the truck to go to work and to go home.

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:57 PM

I thought disincentivising energy consumption was one of the core stated planks of energy reform…isnt this how you do it?

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM

For that to be true one would have to assume producing energy and consuming it creates a problem. The problem is producing enough energy … not making it cost prohibitive to make it or use it.

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Not to worry…anybody under 400% of the poverty line will get electric and gas “subsidies” and a rebate on their gasoline taxes.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 3:59 PM

We are 100+ today and for the next three. I go outside only to get in the truck to go to work and to go home.

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 3:57 PM

I can believe it. I was in San Antonio last September and I thought I would melt. Bad…

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Cap-and-trade would hike energy prices by 20+%.
Then add extra cost of ‘green’ electricity, 50-100%.

petefrt on August 4, 2009 at 3:59 PM

I voted for Obama because he cares about my well being unlike the greedy, rich republicans.

daesleeper on August 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM

I bet you are one of those people that go to Star Trek forums and post “Star Trek SUCKS!” Admit it. You know it’s true.
If not then your attempt at trolling is weak and pathetic. We expect our trolls to be top shelf so get your troll crap together and do better.

jmarcure on August 4, 2009 at 4:00 PM

ernesto on August 4, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Its called the all of the above policy.

Drill? yep… but also build Nuc Plants… and research alternative sources… and build pipelines… and encorage (don’t mandate) energy conservation…

But in order to do that you need rational environmental policy… ie… use but don’t abuse what we have…

Romeo13 on August 4, 2009 at 4:00 PM

i forgot what i was going to say

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 3:55 PM

That’s great! I’ll have to use it some time.

jmarcure on August 4, 2009 at 4:00 PM

I voted for Obama because he cares about my well being unlike the greedy, rich republicans.

daesleeper on August 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM

That has to be sarc, right?

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 4:01 PM

There will have to capital punishment for burning trees to keep me from staying warm

CMonster on August 4, 2009 at 3:39 PM

There is a Russian short story that I read in college that is so eerily similar to this that I got shivers reading your post.

If I remember correctly an older man taking care of his sick wife secretly collects wood (I can’t remember if he takes it from his landlord or what) but is nervous that he will be turned into the authorities. In the end I believe they both take a poison pill rather than be arrested.

journeyintothewhirlwind on August 4, 2009 at 4:01 PM

That’s great! I’ll have to use it some time.

jmarcure on August 4, 2009 at 4:00 PM

obama’s gonna use it any day now

i feel it

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 4:01 PM

I voted for Obama because he cares about my well being unlike the greedy, rich republicans.

daesleeper on August 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM
.
Dude…if that was sarcasm it was awesome. If not, whoaa.

dont taze me bro on August 4, 2009 at 4:01 PM

May I point out that all these new taxes and tax increases will result in LESS total tax revenues collected? Obama’s tax-aholism will be a painful lesson in the Laffer Curve. And Obama, the Economic Super-Genius, will be mystified as to how he can push taxes up to the moon and yet collect less of them.

Tantor on August 4, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Twenty percent by 2030?

That is a gross underestimation designed to make the scheme seem more palatable.

I call bullshit.

hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Twenty percent by 2030?

That is a gross underestimation designed to make the scheme seem more palatable.

I call bullshit.

hillbillyjim on August 4, 2009 at 4:04 PM

More like 100%

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Cap-and-trade would hike energy prices by 20+%.
Then add extra cost of ‘green’ electricity, 50-100%.

I’m not sure it’ll go that high, but I agree with you that this estimate is laughably low.

It’ll drive people from using heat and a/c. And we will see stories of deaths in the future due to this increase.

I’m convinced of that one.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 4:05 PM

And everyone who owns a light switch will pay.

No nuclear power for you America …

tarpon on August 4, 2009 at 4:08 PM

May I point out that all these new taxes and tax increases will result in LESS total tax revenues collected?

Tantor on August 4, 2009 at 4:03 PM

“Those who do not read history, are doomed to repeat it”

Santayana

“of course history repeats itself, no one was listening the first time”

Shaw

“Those who only read or learned Revisionist History, are doomed to repeat the real history”

Romeo13

Romeo13 on August 4, 2009 at 4:08 PM

obama’s gonna use it any day now

i feel it

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 4:01 PM

I would not be surprised.

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 4:09 PM

I would not be surprised.

TXMomof3 on August 4, 2009 at 4:09 PM

“you know, uh, my memory just isn’t as good as Justice Roberts”

blatantblue on August 4, 2009 at 4:09 PM

It’ll drive people from using heat and a/c. And we will see stories of deaths in the future due to this increase.

I’m convinced of that one.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Obamacare will save them, don’t worry.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Who needs energy? Mother Earth needs to breathe.

SouthernGent on August 4, 2009 at 4:12 PM

Hey! Where do I go to get credit for something I found on ONN that’s now a topic?…LOL

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 4:19 PM

It’s all part of the plan.

bitsy on August 4, 2009 at 4:20 PM

20% is a lowball number. Their plan to place hydraulic fracturing under the clean water act alone will raise natural gas prices 25 – 30%.

Vashta.Nerada on August 4, 2009 at 4:21 PM

Still amazed that anyone cannot see the donk’s work is only to diminish the USA to a third world country with elites and serfs.

jukin on August 4, 2009 at 4:21 PM

I plan on lowering my energy costs by cutting down county park trees at night and burning them.

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Where are the Obama “days left” clocks? We know he’s only gonna get one term and I want to start counting now.

Mojave Mark on August 4, 2009 at 4:25 PM

Park benches and wooden picnic tables are also good sources for heating the home.

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 4:25 PM

I hear tire mountain fires seem to last forever burning. Might get us through the winter.

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 4:26 PM

Pretty sure this guy is going to be the worst President ever. Jimmy should be thankful.

Thunderstorm129 on August 4, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Why do you think Jimmy was pushing so hard? Now Carter can die knowing he was not the WORST – just one of the WORST….

izoneguy on August 4, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Park benches and wooden picnic tables are also good sources for heating the home.

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 4:25 PM

I hear tire mountain fires seem to last forever burning. Might get us through the winter.

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 4:26 PM

I have always wanted to spend more time “roughing it” looks like all of my dreams will come true because of Obama!!!!

izoneguy on August 4, 2009 at 4:32 PM

Obama energy policies will hike prices by 20%

.

Man, where did you get those rose colored glasses?

If he gets his way, energy prices will at minimum DOUBLE by 2016. He is building some delays into the system to keep prices from completely skyrocketing prior to the 2012 elections, but skyrocket they will, soon after.

LegendHasIt on August 4, 2009 at 4:32 PM

RaaaaAAAAACists! The only thing missing from this study is a noose.

Alden Pyle on August 4, 2009 at 4:39 PM

Oh, and that “double by 2016″ does not include inflation. Woe be unto anyone who lives on a fixed income or expects to live off of their current cash and paper investments.

LegendHasIt on August 4, 2009 at 4:40 PM

If you raise the price gasoline, lower consumption is likely to follow. Last time the breaking point for consumers was $4.00 per gallon. When energy consumption goes down, what usually follows is tax increases. Look at any government funded project . Roads are paid for through gas taxes. If the funding disappears, then those DOT jobs will as well. Ask any project manager. How do stimilate demand if you artificially raise the price of energy? You don’t. You must first increase the supply of energy [drill here, drill now],followed by lower the prices, thereby providing an environment for a subsequent increase in consumer demand all the while maintaining or even reducing the current tax levels. This simple win/win economic formula generates a sustainable tax revenue for those existing and future road buiding projects. The liberals are doing this bass ackwards. John Maynard Keyes sucks!

Americannodash on August 4, 2009 at 4:50 PM

Americannodash on August 4, 2009 at 4:50 PM

Whats really interesting though is that historicly, in any modern econonmy, energy use is tied directly to increases in an economy, which leads to increases in the standard of living.

If you look at the start of the industrial revolution, it was all tied in with the abundance of energy…

I don’t think you can HAVE an expanding economy, with decreasing energy use.

And yet, that is exactly what the Greens and Dems seem to be trying to do. They are not only making energy more epensive through Cap and Trade, but also not allowing us to expand sources of existing energy typer (coal and oil or even nuclear).

Not sure what their worldview is… but it sure makes no sense to me.

Romeo13 on August 4, 2009 at 5:10 PM

It’ll drive people from using heat and a/c. And we will see stories of deaths in the future due to this increase.

I’m convinced of that one.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Obamacare will save them, don’t worry.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Wait! Won’t ObamaCare bureaucrats want people to die from lack of heat and A/C? That’s fewer people to care for.

Hmmmm …

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 5:18 PM

With the cigarette tax hikes I just have less money to spend on other stuff…oh well…multiply me by millions and see how that impacts the economy.

With this there’s not too much that you can do. I don’t believe the average American ‘wastes’ anywhere near enough energy to even begin justifying this.

BTW, I’ve noticed for the last couple of nights that there are a lot fewer cars on the roads where I live. Seems that folks are driving a lot less. May be wrong…

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 4, 2009 at 5:41 PM

Romeo13 on August 4, 2009 at 5:10 PM

You can’t take over a strong republic from within unless you weaken it first. Most of those disenfranchised 52% who voted for Obama don’t even have the slightest clue of what’s in store for them. This weaking of America is Obama’s endgame. Outside as well as inside sources groomed this man for his rise and our fall. Almost everything he is doing or is planning to do are just milestones marking time of the vision of remaking America.

Americannodash on August 4, 2009 at 5:43 PM

http://www.moveongrannie.org

seven on August 4, 2009 at 5:50 PM

I have been an educator and oilfield worker in West Texas most of my life. I am willing to bet anyone on this site that our energy cost will have risen by more than 20% within the next two-three years. Why isn’t this administration pushing natural gas. We, here in the United States, have an abundance of one of the cleanest fuels in the world; yet, no one in the Obama administration is talking up natural gas. This administrations number one goal is to tank our economy and it is doing a great job thus far. Here are a few figures: Natural gas is trading for around $3.96 per 1000 cubic ft.; butane is approximately $2.50-75 per gallon. I pay approximately .14 per kilowatt, I believe this is how energy is measured, where I live. If anyone wants to take me up on this offer, I am more than willing to wager this little bet. Come on libs, put your money where your mouth is.

locwilliam on August 4, 2009 at 5:54 PM

Americannodash on August 4, 2009 at 5:43 PM

Yeah, the only thing I can think of is that for the USA to knuckle under to the UN, we would have to be WAYYY weaker than we are.

Thus… we cut back on nukes, while not stopping Iran or the NORKs…

Destroy our economy…

Give up sovereignity through Environmental treaties, and the Law of the Sea treaty…

I’m begining to believe that is his endgame…

Romeo13 on August 4, 2009 at 5:54 PM

locwilliam on August 4, 2009 at 5:54 PM

Add in that existing cars and engines can be fairly cheaply modified to run off of Compressed natural gas?

Tech is already here… it exists… and will be cheap and work…

Yet they keep putting up the idea that someone will come up with a better solution.

Romeo13 on August 4, 2009 at 5:57 PM

Comment pages: 1 2