North Korea frees American journalists after Clinton visit

posted at 4:34 pm on August 4, 2009 by Allahpundit

A great result for all concerned at a relatively low cost. The journalists get freedom; The One gets the political benefit of bringing two Americans home safely; Billy Jeff gets the ego massage of knowing he’s still a player on the global stage; and Kim gets what he’s forever seeking, namely, the prestige of posing a sufficiently significant threat to America as to command an audience with a former president. Everyone wins! Well, except Hillary.

State media claims an apology was involved, and aside from Barry O, who’s more practiced at that sort of thing than Bill Clinton?

North Korea will pardon two jailed US journalists after visiting former president Bill Clinton apologised to leader Kim Jong-Il for their behaviour, state media reported Wednesday.

“The measure taken to release the American journalists is a manifestation of the DPRK’s (North Korea’s) humanitarian and peace-loving policy,” the official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) reported…

“Clinton expressed words of sincere apology to Kim Jong-Il for the hostile acts committed by the two American journalists against the DPRK after illegally intruding into it,” KCNA reported.

“Clinton courteously conveyed to Kim Jong-Il an earnest request of the US government to leniently pardon them and send them back home from a humanitarian point of view,” it said…

KCNA said Clinton’s meetings with leader Kim and with his official number two Kim Yong-Nam featured “candid and in-depth discussions on the pending issues between the DPRK and the US in a sincere atmosphere and reached a consensus of views on seeking a negotiated settlement of them”.

Normally I’d dismiss the idea of Clinton apologizing for the crime of journalism as North Korean propaganda, but after today’s betrayal of democracy, I’m not so sure. Exit question one: The media’s bound to greet this with another round of “Hillary marginalized!” stories, but isn’t it better that Obama sent a private citizen than the secretary of state? The difficulty here was giving Kim enough to get the journalists back without giving him so much that it would sacrifice the prestige of the U.S. government. Having the head of the State Department jet off to Pyongyang to beg for mercy would have been humiliating. Having the Clenis do it — well, who cares? Exit question two: Any hawk worth his or her salt will bristle at the thought of Kim being “rewarded” for kidnapping journalists with a state visit by a former C-in-C, but isn’t that perfectly consistent with our North Korea policy? They’re a major threat to launch a regional war but they’re also oddly easily placated by sporadic attention (and food assistance, natch) from the United States. A state visit every 10-12 years to keep Kim stable-ish and out of our hair seems like a bargain as a way to buy time until the regime eventually implodes.


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I agree with AP. If all Kim Jong Il needs to keep him happy is a visit once-in-awhile from Billy Jeff, then let’s oblige him. The Bush administration would have done the same thing to get the reporters back. So I don’t fault that, it’s diplomacy 101. More concerning to me is the Obama administration desire to placate the Iranians so Obama can get his Nobel Peace Prize by negotiating a bogus nuclear deal or whatever he’s after. It seems to me that the best way to deal with Iran is to cut off their oil supply and wait for the college kids to finish their revolution.

Illinidiva on August 4, 2009 at 5:01 PM

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:00 PM

don’t feed the troll. They only post these statements to get a rise…she/he is just a foolish, lonely troll.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Bill should’ve taken one for the Team … after the camera snaps the picture, Bill snaps Kim’s neck.

Tony737 on August 4, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Huge surprise-Clintoon News Network is having a collective orgasm over this.

Sadly Wolfman is on vacation, or we would see some real oral sex on the air…

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Do you honestly believe Clinton would have made this trip if Bush(the war criminal) was President?

liberal343 on August 4, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Didn’t Clinton accept some envoy jobs during the Bush era? I think it was during the tsunami or something.

promachus on August 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM

How many die of starvation before they decide to “implode?”

WitchDoctor on August 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Bush wouldn’t have asked him to, and if you’ll remember, never needed to.

I believe that’s incorrect. I think Clinton and Bush Sr. did do some work for Bush Jr.

I know Clinton gets along with them both, but I can’t recall the situation. Africa?

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Hannity has stated it twice in the last 45 minutes.

Hannity says everything twice. Per segment. Per show.

Also, Bill Ayers. And Robert “KKK” Byrd. And the CBO.

YYZ on August 4, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Well good for Bill.

ronsfi on August 4, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Didn’t Clinton accept some envoy jobs during the Bush era? I think it was during the tsunami or something.

You’re right. That was it.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Explain how much you’re willing to pay for a war and how many men you’re prepared to sacrifice to open those camps.

Allahpundit on August 4, 2009 at 4:47 PM

We don’t need a war. China is supposedly our friend. They supply 90% of the food and oil to NK. If we got them to cut it off, the regime would collapse in days.

Vashta.Nerada on August 4, 2009 at 5:04 PM

blueneck:

It was not a neocon that started the conflict with North Korea. It was not a neocon that grabbed these women and put them in a jail. It was not a neocon who sent them into that hell hole in the first place. And so far as I know no neo con was saying we should go to war with NK to free these reporters.

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Didn’t Clinton accept some envoy jobs during the Bush era? I think it was during the tsunami or something.

promachus on August 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM

stop comparing apples and oranges Bill Clinton has always been doing this kind of work in Africa and poor Asian countries even before he was asked by the war criminal (Bush)

liberal343 on August 4, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Recall, they were kidnapped when the nuke and missle tests were going on. I’d say the U.S. will now NOT respond to the complaints of the tests. Bascially the N.K’s got what they planned on and once again the Clintons have made the world a slightly more dangerous place. DO your homework. They were captured at or after that exact time.

johnnyU on August 4, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Bet it ticks you off when you see this quote…from the first paragraph of his link…I don’t think negotiating for release of two innocent girls is against our best interest, and I am pretty sure Bill was “authorized”. Other then that you don’t have any points…Sorry sport.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 4:56 PM

Might want to get a refund on that box of wheat chex…

1> Bill was not “authorized”. It was a “private trip”. Unless it wasn’t, in which case somebody lied.

2> The law doesn’t say anything about the US’ “best interest”. Only that operating as an official agent of the US without authorization is illegal.

Here’s the actual law-

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Skywise on August 4, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Does this deed get deposited in Hillary’s media coverage presidential account?

bloggless on August 4, 2009 at 5:06 PM

AnninCA:

Bush never had to ask Bill Clinton to go free any Americans held captive. He did ask him to do some human rights work for the US.

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:06 PM

There is no one better in the world at boot licking than a Democrat.

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 5:06 PM

OT:

Glen Beck is celebrating Dear Leader’s birthday today…
They are coming after Beck…

d1carter on August 4, 2009 at 5:07 PM

Bill Clinton rewarding NKorea for bad behavior: Bolton

WASHINGTON (AFP) – The Obama administration is rewarding North Korea for its bad behavior by sending ex-president Bill Clinton to Pyongyang to win the release of two US journalists, the former US ambassador to the UN said Tuesday.

John Bolton, an outspoken hardliner in the previous administration of George W. Bush, told AFP that Clinton’s mission to Pyongyang undermines a number of public stands held by his own wife, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

“It comes perilously close to negotiating with terrorists,” Bolton told AFP when asked about Bill Clinton’s trip to secure the release of journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee.

Disturb the Universe on August 4, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Exactly AP. Neocons are always ready to sacrifice other people’s kids and money to start insane conflicts on the flimsiest of pretence (remember Iraq?). They just aren’t happy unless sumpn’ gits blowed up.

Blueneck on August 4, 2009 at 5:01 PM

No one’s asking for a war. Please. But you don’t placate evil and call it a brilliant “buy time” strategy. That’s been going on for 60 years in NK and Cuba and elsewhere. This is no where near Carter’s “Agreed Framework”– which allowed them to be the nuke threat they are– but it’s on the road: “Oh, give NK a little something, and then they’ll be quiet for a while, and we’ll deal with them later.” All that happens is more and more people die, and NK just arms up more and more, and we just get scared into giving them more and more goodies. We need to stop doing this because, at some point, evil will rear it’s head, and actions like these are just false security blankets.

Pasalubong on August 4, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Bush never had to ask Bill Clinton to go free any Americans held captive. He did ask him to do some human rights work for the US.

Yes, you’re right. It was to join his dad in raising money for the tsunami victims.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:09 PM

stop comparing apples and oranges Bill Clinton has always been doing this kind of work in Africa and poor Asian countries even before he was asked by Bush

liberal343 on August 4, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Clinton(the war criminal) never gave money for AIDs to Africa. That was Bush’ program from the beginning.

BTW, you never did answer my question in the other thread.

How can you trust Obama (the liar)’s administration when they blatantly lie to your face that Obama (the liar) never said he supports single payer insurance?

Skywise on August 4, 2009 at 5:09 PM

How many of our nukes and Peacekeeper ICBMs is Obama going to give the Norks for this ‘achievement’? Or maybe our latest Trident missile sub, fully armed?

Liam on August 4, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Do you honestly believe Clinton would have made this trip if Bush(the war criminal) was President?

liberal343 on August 4, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Do you think Colin Powell is a war criminal too? He was charged as same at The Hague, after all.

Or was Colin forgiven of his “war crimes” after endorsing your Dear Leader?

getalife.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 5:10 PM

liberal:

Well, Clinton {the sex offender} never had to do anything like this when Bush was president, because Americans were not taken captive in quite the same way.

BTW, was Clinton a war criminal when he ordered the bombing of Baghdad in 1998 on the grounds that they were hiding wmd?

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:10 PM

There is no one better in the world at boot licking than a Democrat.

That’s OK. He apologized for their violations of the NK law. That’s an OK apology, in my book.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Clinton(the war criminal) never gave money for AIDs to Africa. That was Bush’ program from the beginning.

Bush hasn’t YET gotten credit for the many programs he supported as President. I think history will correct that.

But there’s no comparison to Clinton’s foundation.

It’s formidible and very, very effective.

Both men deserve credit. Plus, we’ve not yet seen what Bush plans to do in retirement. My guess is? Alot more than people think.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:12 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:09 PM

Somehow, I’m beginning to like you…

Liam on August 4, 2009 at 5:12 PM

Well, he obviously knows Kim. This was a pretty slick ego-saving move.

Worth the airfare.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 4:49 PM

And the extra plume of gaseous global warming fumes, too!

SouthernGent on August 4, 2009 at 5:12 PM

Hannity says everything twice. Per segment. Per show.

Also, Bill Ayers. And Robert “KKK” Byrd. And the CBO.

YYZ on August 4, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Don’t forget Rahm “dead fish” Emmanual…

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 5:12 PM

That’s OK. He apologized for their violations of the NK law. That’s an OK apology, in my book.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:10 PM

You do realize that the meds you’re taking now will not be available under the new Obama healthcare plan, right?

VibrioCocci on August 4, 2009 at 5:13 PM

I should add…

I give the Obama administration credit where it’s due…this case, and the case of the pirated Maersk Alabama. Both solved quickly and painlessly. Kudos.

And international relation is the LAST place I thought I’d do that.

JetBoy on August 4, 2009 at 5:13 PM

Somehow, I’m beginning to like you…

I grow on people. :)

Even the lefties have learned to tolerate me on the Palin threads. *haha

They could write my posts, of course.

(I’m wicked on their sexism crap!)

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:13 PM

AnninCa:

A violation of their law? You are talking about a country that uses disabled children as test subjects for their biological weapons programs. What law exactly did these young women break?

Once again, why did that idiot Gore send them in there? Liberals always think they go in a place like this and just talk to people, they refuse to believe that there are people who do not want to talk. So once again, we had some do gooder moron like Gore send a couple of young reporters into a dangerous place…and then a former president has to go over there and kiss ass for some dictator just to get them out again.

The entire episode is ridiculous.

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:14 PM

Bingo. It is ridiculous.

ORconservative on August 4, 2009 at 5:15 PM

And for what? For releasing two leftie “Journalists” working for the old buddy Goracle. Who were rightfully jailed for stupidly crossing an international border.

Aristotle on August 4, 2009 at 4:49 PM

Hey Mouthbreather: Hope your daughters get abducted by a psychopathic regime and get “rightfully jailed” too.

Blueneck on August 4, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Ann:

Yes, there is comparison to Clinton’s foundation. Bush saved the lives of millions of Africans through his work with malaria and AIDS treatment and prevention. He won’t get the credit because partisan journalists refuse to give it to him.

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:16 PM

Bush hasn’t YET gotten credit for the many programs he supported as President. I think history will correct that.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:12 PM

Thanks, I needed a laugh.

“Historians” are 99% Leftist academics. The other 1% are ex-aides to former Democrat Presidents. And if any of them stray off the reservation, their words will be suppressed by their colleagues.

In 1999, a full year and a half before he left office, Bill Clinton’s Presidency was called a total failure by one of those historians, former JFK/LBJ aide Richard Goodwin, in aan op-ed piece for the Boston Globe. Yet his words were never propagated, and today can only be found hidden behind a $3 per article firewall.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Blueneck:

Well, if Gore had not sent them in there…they would not have been jailed. Did he not think about that?

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Everyone wins! Well, except Hillary.

How do we know she didn’t send him?

misslizzi on August 4, 2009 at 5:18 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:13 PM

Lefties are NEVER sexist. Just ask them. ~really adorable irresistible smile~

Seriously, tho–don’t you have a concern about the deal made over there? Kim Jong Il tends to hold tight, but this time he so suddenly acquiesced. I posted earlier wondering if we’re going to give NK a fully-loaded Trident missile sub, being slightly sarcastic. I’m concerned about the deal BC made, and at what cost to you and me.

Liam on August 4, 2009 at 5:19 PM

The entire episode is ridiculous.

No doubt. But I’m guessing that the deal was, “Respect our laws.”

They sent Clinton to do the boot-licking, and he delivered.

Ergo, girls are free.

That’s a fair trade, in my book. NK is still insane. But we weren’t negotiating that one.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:19 PM

I’m concerned about the deal BC made, and at what cost to you and me.

Liam on August 4, 2009 at 5:19 PM

You should be concerned.

I’m glad the women are out of prison, but it wasn’t without cost.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 5:20 PM

“Historians” are 99% Leftist academics. The other 1% are ex-aides to former Democrat Presidents. And if any of them stray off the reservation, their words will be suppressed by their colleagues.

I agree, if you’re talking about current history. But time goes on, and the worm always turns.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Hilarious string….. I wonder if Jesse Jackson was in the running to go……….

ultracon on August 4, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Jetboy:

The problem with the pirates was not solved quickly or painlessly..it took several days and in the end people were shot. Now, if Obama had not jacked around for days, and just let the navy do its thing…the whole thing could have been over quickly. I am not sure about painlessly.

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:22 PM

AnninCa:

I just hope Gore has learned a lesson here himself.

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Well, if Gore had not sent them in there…they would not have been jailed. Did he not think about that?

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Hey, wasn’t Gore supposed to go talk them out of there? Yup. This makes him even more of a schmuck.

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Yes, there is comparison to Clinton’s foundation. Bush saved the lives of millions of Africans through his work with malaria and AIDS treatment and prevention. He won’t get the credit because partisan journalists refuse to give it to him.

Well, what I always respected and like about Bush sort of dovetails with your post.

He doesn’t care about that. He did what he thought was right. Like it or hate it, George was firm.

I always agreed with his wife on this character trait. And it is admirable.

I did not agree with every decision or even his overall style.

But I never saw him as being anything but forthright and a pretty straight arrow.

Now, you can imagine why I’m considered a right-winger on the left blogs.

But that’s my sincere take on Bush. I’ll take anyone anyday who is forthright, even if I disagree with the premise.

Leadership requires consistency.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:26 PM

The White House strenuously denies any contact with Mr. Impeached. Then why is Obama transition head, John Podesta, in North Korea today? Maybe he’s on vacation?

crash72 on August 4, 2009 at 5:26 PM

Bush hasn’t YET gotten credit for the many programs he supported as President.

Oh, he gets the credit he deserves. From Africans.

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 5:28 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:21 PM

I’m glad they’re home, too. Under JFK, it might have been, ‘release them or pay the price.”

In the Iran Hostage matter, Teheran feared Reagan, so they released the hostages the instant Reagan was sworn in. I believe in peace through not only American power but the will to use it.

I’m getting an idea you grasp all this and agree in part.

Clinton made a deal, rather than go over there as a former President and say, “release them or else” with all options open.

I’m getting an idea you agree with this at least in part. An agent provocateur?

For what it might be worth, I’m liking you a little more. Keep coming at it!

Liam on August 4, 2009 at 5:29 PM

corona on August 4, 2009 at 4:41 PM

The Logan Act applies when the individual is negotiating or talking on behalf of the United States without consent of the government. We might not like it, but Obama is president. Consent was given.

Do you honestly believe Clinton would have made this trip if Bush(the war criminal) was President?

liberal343 on August 4, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Would the “war criminal” have sent the perjurer? Probably not. But we had established diplomatic relations with the DPRK and had made progress in the weapons program talks.

Now, would Clinton have made this trip if Bush asked him? You can pretty much bet your ass. First of all, two Americans were at stake and they were related to Al Gore’s venture. Second, he gets personal credit for getting them freed.

Oh, and keep in mind that many people across the globe thought Clinton was/is a war criminal, too. He wasn’t exactly hesitant to drop a few bombs during his presidency.

Explain how much you’re willing to pay for a war and how many men you’re prepared to sacrifice to open those camps.

Allahpundit on August 4, 2009 at 4:47 PM

Is that a quote from 1940?

amerpundit on August 4, 2009 at 5:29 PM

The problem with the pirates was not solved quickly or painlessly..it took several days and in the end people were shot. Now, if Obama had not jacked around for days, and just let the navy do its thing…the whole thing could have been over quickly. I am not sure about painlessly.

Terrye on August 4, 2009 at 5:22 PM

Not our people…

JetBoy on August 4, 2009 at 5:30 PM

You all are missing one major link…Michael Jackson. Kim was /is a big MJ fan. Now that he is gone, Bill was the next best thing. This guy is so whacked out I am betting the photo op was all that was needed (and the fake apology).

Vigilante on August 4, 2009 at 5:30 PM

Another thought… I wonder if they Photoshopped the picture. The gargoyle looks kind of tall compared to Slick Willie.

ultracon on August 4, 2009 at 5:31 PM

Probably been said already, but the first thing that came to my mind when they said these ladies were flying back on Slick Willy’s personal jet was what they would be asked to do out of gratitude.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 4, 2009 at 5:35 PM

I agree, if you’re talking about current history. But time goes on, and the worm always turns.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Not really…FDR’s legacy is still being whitewashed by the Left 64 years after he was dead and buried, and so is JFK’s. And it took “historians” a century to get it right re. Andrew Johnson.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 5:35 PM

Probably been said already, but the first thing that came to my mind when they said these ladies were flying back on Slick Willy’s personal jet was what they would be asked to do out of gratitude.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 4, 2009 at 5:35 PM

Debriefing?

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 5:36 PM

Exactly AP. Neocons are always ready to sacrifice other people’s kids and money to start insane conflicts on the flimsiest of pretence (remember Iraq?). They just aren’t happy unless sumpn’ gits blowed up.

Blueneck on August 4, 2009 at 5:01 PM

That is the stupidest statement I’ve read here today, which is quite an accomplishment considering there was already a healthcare thread and Ann was on it! You don’t really know anything do you?

JAM on August 4, 2009 at 5:39 PM

The usual suspects demanded we “work with” Iran to solve the Iran nuke issue…and buy time to work out a “solution”: whatever that might have been.

Well, we’ve run out of time re: Iran. Bet the mullahs appreciate our talking instead of actually acting.

Same for the Kim regime.

Once we step into direct US-NK talks to end the Korean War, our mandate to be in South Korea ends, as the United Nations Command at Yongsan Compound in Seoul is still there because there is a war going on. Thus, from that point onward any move we make in South Korea will need the approval of the South Korean government, or be seen as unilateralism on our part. And the other members of the six-party talks? They are now free to strike their own deals with P’yongyang and our interests are not at all congruent with theirs.

The Kim regime going back to the 1970′s had this plan in mind and has assiduously been working their way towards bilateral relations with the United States.

They are just one step away from that dream today.

Giving any legitimacy to the P’yongyang regime is not the way to compel them to join the rest of the world.

Nice to have the “journalists” on their way home…but at what overall long term costs to rescue two “reporters” who had no business inside North Korea to begin with?

coldwarrior on August 4, 2009 at 5:39 PM

I’m getting an idea you agree with this at least in part. An agent provocateur?

Exactly. His legacy is set. No skin off of his nose, so to speak. He can stroke the ego. Kim gets to do something that shows he’s not a flipping nut. (Although, we all know he’s insane.)

Win-win. That is negotations.

What I think is fascinating is that because he’s a former president, it worked. Kim could bite. It’s like having a real stamp of approval. Yet it’s not.

Really, it’s a simple and brilliant move.

I suspect Hillary’s comments, which were very harsh, set it up.

And Obama really has to be given credit. He had to let Bill bring home the prize here. If he were entirely petty, he’d not allowed that.

The girls are the real winners, and they really just were stupid.

Personally, I’d like to see a bigger push for these young tourists. This is the third crisis in how many months?

They have got to understand that this isn’t funny business. And Bill Clinton isn’t always going to rescue you.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:40 PM

Skywise on August 4, 2009 at 5:06 PM

You are saying that a “private citizen” can’t go on an authorized trip? So only elected officials and military can do that.
You obviously do not have much knowledge on international negotiations.

You are getting even more foolish…private citizens have negotiated for us for decades…if the president and or congress sanctions the trip, it is “authorized”. Apparently you are confused by the word “authorized”.
The “best interest” was from a memo, and I stand by that as a legal definition.
There has only been one case ever prosecuted…
*
Here is a little homework that you will find interesting, and it will help you understand international negotiations.
What religious organization has participated in many of the most critical and sensitive international negotiations? Then when you have the answer, you can arrest them for violating the Logan Act dozens of times.
P.S. if you quote the law, quote the whole law, here is the rest.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 5:41 PM

But we had established diplomatic relations with the DPRK and had made progress in the weapons program talks.

amerpundit on August 4, 2009 at 5:29 PM

Ummm, no. We have not, yet, established diplomatic relations with North Korea. We are still in a state of war with them…all approved by the United Nations in June 1950, and no peace treaty or normalization vis-a-vis the US and North Korea has been accomplished.

coldwarrior on August 4, 2009 at 5:43 PM

I am glad Bill went and saved them….
However, these two foolish girls hardly deserved to be saved. They were so stupid, their genes should be removed from the human pool.
Along with those goof-balls hiking along the Iran/Iraq border. How stupid are you to be there, and wonder into the wrong country.
Take those three, these two girls, and drop them on an island and let them “survive” or die. They are two stupidly dangerous to allow them into society.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 5:44 PM

What shamefully weak wretches we’ve become in 50 short years. Watching these ridiculous kabuki dances – where so-called Western “leaders” grovel at the feet every tinpot nutjob on the planet – is really getting tiresome.

rvastar on August 4, 2009 at 5:44 PM

However, these two foolish girls hardly deserved to be saved

I simply hope I never reach the place you’re at.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:45 PM

BTW, I am not sure that asking for two girls to be released would even rise to the occasion of “interfering” with international politics.
The more “distant” Clinton appears, the better chance he had of the release. Kim does not want to be seen as “giving in” to the U.S., but as a “personal” gesture to a “friend” and plea, then he would save face.
Kim may say “I didn’t give them to the U.S., I gave them to a citizen and friend”.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 5:48 PM

Ummm, no. We have not, yet, established diplomatic relations with North Korea. We are still in a state of war with them…all approved by the United Nations in June 1950, and no peace treaty or normalization vis-a-vis the US and North Korea has been accomplished.

We had an armistice with the Norks, at least until Kim renounced it May. As for diplomatic relations, how could you forget this and the subsequent shafting we took from them?

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Anyone who ignores a travel warning to any part of the world does so at their own volition and responsibility.

Iran and Iraq, among others, are under a current travel warning.

Why should the US government be compelled to spend time, effort and a lot of other assets to try to rescue those who choose to ignore common sense?

coldwarrior on August 4, 2009 at 5:51 PM

I simply hope I never reach the place you’re at.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:45 PM

Look at the word “hardly”, I didn’t say shouldn’t. They were stupid and foolish…but you think they were brave and smart, and you would encourage that kind of “bravery”.
No, you just picked a sentence you didn’t understand, and made a snide comment.
Read the whole post and you get the gist…people who make these really awful, foolish mistakes, that can be so easily preventable (don’t go to a war zone) should not be given a free pass.
Learn to read the whole post…

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 5:51 PM

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 5:50 PM

You misunderstand the legalities of diplomatic relations and recognition. Thre are indeed legalities and parameters of any diplomatic relations between countries. To date, we are in a state of war with North Korea, and do not have diplomatic relations with North Korea.

Sending a SecState to P’yongyang to dance the night away is not establishing diplomatic relations.

In the 1980-90′s I was on what we called Team Korea as a US government official. While the subject was explored at the highest levels of government such never went beyond across the table rumination. I stand with my statement.

coldwarrior on August 4, 2009 at 5:55 PM

Look at the word “hardly”, I didn’t say shouldn’t. They were stupid and foolish…but you think they were brave and smart, and you would encourage that kind of “bravery”.
No, you just picked a sentence you didn’t understand, and made a snide comment.
Read the whole post and you get the gist…people who make these really awful, foolish mistakes, that can be so easily preventable (don’t go to a war zone) should not be given a free pass.
Learn to read the whole post…

Then I apologize. We actually agree.

I said the same thing, in different words, in a post that preceded yours.

I do hope that young people start to understand that they are not equipped to figure out when societies are fluid and when they aren’t. Small mistakes matter in these situation, and their lives are at risk.

They are so bold, but the US can’t save them all.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:58 PM

Clinton is going to get credit for something he didn’t do once again. They bought him off. Only way he was holding them was for ransom.
The man who should have been executed for treason looks good in the eyes of those that don’t know him.

lilium on August 4, 2009 at 6:01 PM

coldwarrior on August 4, 2009 at 5:55 PM

True, we don’t have reciprocal embassies, but we have most certainly had diplomatic relations such as the Clinton nuke/food/oil deal and the 6 party talks.

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 6:02 PM

But according to the wing nuts diplomacy doesn’t work. A bomb would have been much faster

liberal343 on August 4, 2009 at 4:48 PM

In the eight years of Bush’s administration there were two countries that we bombed. Of those two, two were also countries with which we applied diplomacy first. We had conditions, of course. They weren’t met. Diplomacy failed.

I would be interested in any evidence, quotes, documents which support your strawman conclusion in which any ‘wing nut’ claimed bombing would work faster.

When speed of delivery is not necessarily an option, it is still incumbent on those who seek desired outcome of their terms to meet said terms. Intended consequences also apply. The world takes note of what you can and cannot get away with when dealing with each participant player in these situations. Shall we compare the number of incidents between the respective administrations’ record?

96 months vs 6 months…

anuts on August 4, 2009 at 6:02 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:40 PM

I’m waiting to see the win for our side. Yeah, those women were pardoned which I’m comfortable with, but Clintion’s legacy is that he’s a possible rapist, and adulterer, and a liar to the the American people. He even betrayed the Left. Some legacy.

What interests me is what of America, with Obama’s blessing, he gave away. That’s what’s important to me.

You live in CA and I’m in Buffalo, NY. Both are nuclear targets (my city is second-day for attack). If those lib jokers mess up, which they do at every turn, you and I might needlessly die before our time. Accidents and/or illness are one thing. Lib Dems are quite another.

What did Billy Jeff give away, to the harm of America and risk of you and me?

Reagan never would have put us at risk. Neither Bush, father and son, would have put us at risk. The Clintons and Obama have no problem with that. They all prefer to clean up the mess rather than let the mess happen in the first place. I require details: what concessions did Obama give NK by way of Clinton?

Liam on August 4, 2009 at 6:03 PM

Mission Accomplished, President Clinton!

benny shakar on August 4, 2009 at 6:06 PM

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 6:02 PM

Six-party talks in no way conveyed recognition. Such were a joint regvional framework.

And one does not need embassies for diplomatic relations to be established. Matter of fact one can maintain an embassy in care-taker status after pulling recognition.

Sending select US diplomats to North Korea is not recognizing the government in P’yongyang. It is a field expedient toward addressing certain common issues or to thwart a degeneration into something far worse.

As for the oil/food to North Korea, that was not done under US government auspices, but was wrapped up in either a United Nations program, or NGO program, or a regional program, but at no time was any of it a US-North Korea program.

coldwarrior on August 4, 2009 at 6:07 PM

Sending select US diplomats to North Korea is not recognizing the government in P’yongyang.

What is it when we’re doing business with them such as in the 1994 Agreed Framework?

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 6:20 PM

As for the oil/food to North Korea, that was not done under US government auspices, but was wrapped up in either a United Nations program, or NGO program, or a regional program, but at no time was any of it a US-North Korea program.

Really?

Delegations of the governments of the United States of America (U.S.) and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) held talks in Geneva from September 23 to October 21, 1994, to negotiate an overall resolution of the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula.

Both sides reaffirmed the importance of attaining the objectives contained in the August 12, 1994 Agreed Statement between the U.S. and the DPRK and upholding the principles of the June 11, 1993 Joint Statement of the U.S. and the DPRK to achieve peace and security on a nuclear-free Korean peninsula. The U.S. and the DPRK decided to take the following actions for the resolution of the nuclear issue:

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 6:22 PM

Well, I’m just glad the girls are out of there. NK is not anyplace to be jailed.

It’s a success.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 4:46 PM

ditto and it’s all that matters. The end.

beekiller on August 4, 2009 at 6:27 PM

They are so bold, but the US can’t save them all.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 5:58 PM

This is where you and I disagree…you say bold, I say stupid, and would throw in naive.
Often these people end up risking other peoples lives for their own selfish needs.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 6:27 PM

ditto and it’s all that matters. The end.

beekiller on August 4, 2009 at 6:27 PM

No the foolish acts of these two girls caused a major problem. They were where they should not have been, and they need to be taught a lesson.
They owe our country a huge debt, a huge amount of time and money was spent on them…it is not “the end”.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 6:29 PM

benny shakar on August 4, 2009 at 6:06 PM

Here’s a napkin for you. Now please wipe that stuff off of your chin.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 6:33 PM

I give all the credit to Billy JEff and NONE to the pseudo-messiah
If he wanted credit, he’d have done this himself

So go blow, Barack!

ToddonCapeCod on August 4, 2009 at 6:39 PM

Obama saved some journalists at a time when he needs them the most.
Meanwhile,, In Iran,,,

JellyToast on August 4, 2009 at 6:41 PM

No the foolish acts of these two girls caused a major problem. They were where they should not have been, and they need to be taught a lesson.
They owe our country a huge debt, a huge amount of time and money was spent on them…it is not “the end”.

right2bright on August 4, 2009 at 6:29 PM

Luckily you have no say in it so…. seems like the end of it to me. *shrug*

Not EVERYTHING has to be a fricken fight.

beekiller on August 4, 2009 at 6:43 PM

I’m waiting to see the win for our side. Yeah, those women were pardoned which I’m comfortable with, but Clintion’s legacy is that he’s a possible rapist, and adulterer, and a liar to the the American people. He even betrayed the Left. Some legacy.

Liam on August 4, 2009 at 6:03 PM

Also the first elected President to be impeached, and probably the first to admit to felony perjury in front of a Federal Grand Jury.

As for his “accomplishments” while President, the economic recovery he claimed credit for in reality began 18 months before the media elected him, he had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the Rethuglicans into signing welfare reform after vetoing it twice, and he lost Congress in 1994. He also left his successor the 9/11 attacks, which were planned for and actually supposed to happen on his watch.

What a guy!

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Sounds like you people still haven’t gotten over President Clinton’s astronomical approval rating at the end of his second term – the highest in the history of this great nation.

benny shakar on August 4, 2009 at 6:49 PM

Sounds like you people still haven’t gotten over President Clinton’s astronomical approval rating at the end of his second term – the highest in the history of this great nation.

benny shakar on August 4, 2009 at 6:49 PM

Not bad for a guy who was elected twice with more than half of the voters voting for someone else; each time.

Also, pretty decent for one of the only two presidents to be impeached.

anuts on August 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM

Sounds like you people still haven’t gotten over President Clinton’s astronomical approval rating at the end of his second term – the highest in the history of this great nation.

benny shakar on August 4, 2009 at 6:49 PM

At the same time, those same polls also showed that 70 percent of Americans said his pResidency would only be remembered for a blue dress, not for anything he actually “accomplished” in office.

I would ask our simple friend here what exactly Clinton did accomplish in office, but I’m sure he’d slither back under his rock.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 7:10 PM

Also, pretty decent for one of the only two presidents to be impeached.

anuts on August 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM

He was the first elected President to be impeached, a singular honor. The other impeached President, Andrew Johnson, was only elected Vice President.

Of course, in shakar’s paralell universe, the legitimately elected Al Gore was President from January of 2001 until 9/11 happened, then Bush miraculously took over and got the blame.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 7:12 PM

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Yes, what a guy!

and on who would have better served America by being elected president of Bumf**k, Egypt. I’m on your side, I promise! His legacy is possible rape, confirmed adultery, and shafting the Left that managed to get him not only elected but also acquitted.

I know this, all too well. And now I wonder what he gave the Norks to get those women released. I’m waiting to hear of the launching of the USS Kim Il Sung, SSBN 666 of the North Korean Navy, fully loaded with Trident missiles, our best torpedoes, and the full suite of countermeasures and codes to defeat the entire US Navy.

In the name of peace and international harmony, of course.

Excuse me while I go lean over my porcelain princess here…

Liam on August 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM

I don’t think negotiating for release of two innocent girls is against our best interest, and I am pretty sure Bill was “authorized”.

Innocent of what? They hopped the border, didn’t they?

Glad the Norks solved it with a last-chance-to-avoid-labor-camp deportation.

Now if only WE would try that…

Chris_Balsz on August 4, 2009 at 7:24 PM

Reporting from Baghdad — An Iranian lawmaker said today that three Americans who strayed into Iranian territory across the border from Iraq’s Kurdistan region were “definitely” spies.

Because the US Government negotiated directly with North Korea for the release of the journalists, Iran naturally presumes the US Government will negotiate directly with them for the release of the three hikers.

Skandia Recluse on August 4, 2009 at 7:25 PM

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