Another Blue Dog faces his constituents on health care

posted at 10:35 am on August 4, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Democracy can be a dangerous thing … for incumbents who pass bad policy, or even attempt to defend it.  Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit and Doug Ross have the latest evidence of this, a town-hall meeting on ObamaCare in Ohio’s 1st CD, represented by Democrat Steve Dreihaus.  In this case, Dreihaus has even more to explain after winning his seat on a claim of fiscal conservatism, as Dreihaus also voted for cap-and-trade, which will make Ohio’s coal industry vanish along with hiking energy costs on his constituents.  Yesterday, though, ObamaCare made them angry enough:

Driehaus did his best to maintain a facade of support. His town-hall organizers took only written questions and started off the meeting warning about “Teabaggers,” a term that they apparently didn’t know or care was a sexual slur intended to insult the very fiscal conservatives Dreihaus claims to represent. That strategy didn’t last long, however, as Doug’s correspondent Amalaur reported from the meeting:

Driehaus began with a canned statement of the typical Obama talking points and the crowd grew increasingly angry. A guy behind me yelled “Stop filibustering!” at about 7:15, at which point Driehaus gave in. He then started answering the written questions, mostly softball, that were picked out for him. The crowd started to get really rambunctious. One guy kept yelling out, “That was lie number (whatever)” when Driehaus repeated some nonsensical talking point like that there are 47 million uninsured.

You could hear a bunch of Tea Partiers outside yelling. Finally, enough attendees were sufficiently disruptive that Driehaus began taking real questions. There were a lot of good ones, about illegal immigrants covered under the bill… how the government couldn’t run cash-for-clunkers, how could it run health care… etc.

I would say the ratio of those opposed to ObamaCare and single-payer ran about 8-to-1 (maybe more). In fact, when the “public option” was raised and people yelled that would destroy competition, one of the Obamatons screamed, “the public option is competition!”. The guy next to me erupted, “No, it’s MARXISM!”

The good news is that people are educated about what the public option is, which basically is a disaster for private insurance. One questioner noted that you could go on the Internet and get access to about 14,000 different health insurance quotes with reviews and so on. She wanted state portability. Driehaus, of course, ignored that part.

You know how to tell that your town-hall meeting was a flop? Your constituents start chanting to vote for … the guy you beat in the last election. Former Rep. Steve Chabot lost OH-01 by 15,000 votes last November, but at least some of those voters may be feeling nostalgic for Chabot about now.

Update: Rep. Steve Kagan (D-WI) discovers that his constituents aren’t terribly happy, either, and the local news covers it pretty well (via Michelle):

Kagen called this a “listening session,” and he has more planned, including one this morning. Let’s hope he’s listening closely.


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Watch these videos again. These aren’t protesters with signs. These are real people genuinely afraid of taking down the most successful healthcare industry in the world and turning it over to a government who can’t even grasp the essentials of taxation=job loss/tax cuts=increased tax revenue. They can’t do Medicaid; they can’t do Medicare; our entitlements are eating up the federal budget, and we can’t pay for this process anyway.

The signs were the one in Texas. I think I said that.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Oh NJ Red, you’re just being a big, rude meanie. ;)

Monica on August 4, 2009 at 12:16 PM

But we’re Mid-westerners. We just are a bit more pragmatic about stuff like this. It’s in the genes.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:12 PM

I thought you were from the south…

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Kind of like government run schools. It’s not the government’s responsibility to educate the citizens. Let the free market do it. They are doing a better job for less money now.

Now we’re going back to the 19th century fights. :)

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Well, it sounds to me like you’re fighting FDR all over again.

I think the majority of people have settled that question. Yes, healthcare is constitutional. Now, the question is….can we make it work or not?

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Can you please provide for me where healthcare is constitutional? Just to let you know I am an attorney and haven’t found that in the constitution but, hey I may have missed it all of these years!

xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:17 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 10:47 AM

Show us the documentation.

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Yes, show us the documentation.

Monica on August 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM

But we’re Mid-westerners. We just are a bit more pragmatic about stuff like this. It’s in the genes.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Leftists, always extrapolating their views on us.

Ann, let the people decide, just like your Mommy decided.

Be pragmatic about it, not totalitarian about it.

Sapwolf on August 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM

Anninca needs a lobotomy. You can’t reason with stupid.

txag92 on August 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM

I thought you were from the south…

I am. Both of my parents were from Kansas and moved to the South where I was raised.

They were definitely Mid-western. We just didn’t “cotton” to hypochondriacs, either. :) (German background. Even worse! Throw stoicism in the mix.)

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM

I think the majority of people have settled that question. Yes, healthcare is constitutional. Now, the question is….can we make it work or not?

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Who is the majority that settled that question? No, healthcare isn’t constitutional. No, we can’t make it work.

Monica on August 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM

I thought you were from the south…

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Trust me, her posts are nutcase CA all the way.

Probably SF Bay Area too.

Sapwolf on August 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM

This is stupid. Pratically half of the people in those videos yelling about government take-overs are either getting Social Security or Medicare.

So, essentially it’s OK for them to get Medicare (which I don’t see people shouting to get rid of it) but not to have a choice for other people to buy into a system like that.

ckoeber on August 4, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Medicare is precisely the problem that makes seniors so concerned about Obamacare. It is Medicare and its intrusion into our lives, its bankrupt financial standing and its pushing private insurers to cut back to only supplemental that is the problem! My employer recently forced me to go to Medicare the month before I turned 65. It offers worse coverage, and the supplemental insurance my company now provides along with Medicare fees is costing me more than I paid before.
And Social Security… while I’m not on that yet, I don’t actually think its a bargain to take a signficant part of my earnings for 30+ years, pay only a portion of it back and perhaps go out of business soon because of bad financial management (it is a Ponzi scheme, after all). These seniors are tired of being conned by the Federal Govt. Now the govt. wants to con us again. Only this time it could cost seniors their lives! May we all rise up and just say NO!

Christian Conservative on August 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Our reps in California are taking the cowardly route and holding telephone town halls with “randomly selected” participants. Dollars to donuts there’s nothing random about it. I’m still signing up, but have little hope to move any of our high-priced socialists when they think they’re at their finest hour.

evergreen on August 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Can you please provide for me where healthcare is constitutional? Just to let you know I am an attorney and haven’t found that in the constitution but, hey I may have missed it all of these years!

Not my argument, and if you’re a lawyer, you know that you never defend the other guy’s argument. :)

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM

AnninCA:

Which way is it?
Either the existing governmental plans suck pondwater – proving the government couldn’t run a lemon aide stand without screwing it up.
In which case, why do we want them to do more?
Or, they do okay with the existing systems, in which case, why not use these programs to cover the uninsured?

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:10 PM

If you don’t like insurance companies then don’t buy insurance. I have no problems with them.

If you want uninsured to have insurance, then you and the rest of the left can get together and spend your own money and get it for them.

Leave us alone. Do whatever the hell you want.

Get it? You and the government leave us alone and keep your hands out of our pockets.

YOU SPEND YOUR OWN MONEY

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM

ANN THIS IS FOR YOU MY DEAR While on the subject of the Constitution, while most misinformed people believe that the core of rights contained therein is in the Bill of Rights, the real core of rights is Article I, Section 8, the powers of Congress which, when coupled with the 10th Amendment, essentially says that the Federal government cannot do anything unless it is on that list, or covered by an Amendment (such as the income tax, covered by he 16th Amendment). So, unconstitutional are:

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Food Stamps
Public Housing
Welfare programs
EPA/environmental regulations
OSHA/workplace safety regulations
Wagner Act (forced negotiations with unions)
Minimum wage
Child labor laws
Product liability laws
Anti-discrimination laws (at least by non-government entities)
And I could go on…

If the democrat party had any interest in enforcing the Constitution, they would demand every one of these be eliminated immediately, period. Fat chance.

xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Medicare is precisely the problem that makes seniors so concerned about Obamacare. It is Medicare and its intrusion into our lives, its bankrupt financial standing and its pushing private insurers to cut back to only supplemental that is the problem! My employer recently forced me to go to Medicare the month before I turned 65. It offers worse coverage, and the supplemental insurance my company now provides along with Medicare fees is costing me more than I paid before.
And Social Security… while I’m not on that yet, I don’t actually think its a bargain to take a signficant part of my earnings for 30+ years, pay only a portion of it back and perhaps go out of business soon because of bad financial management (it is a Ponzi scheme, after all). These seniors are tired of being conned by the Federal Govt. Now the govt. wants to con us again. Only this time it could cost seniors their lives! May we all rise up and just say NO!

Most people are very happy with Medicare. I know, that most seniors would be appalled to see it taken away.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM

The signs were the one in Texas. I think I said that.

And I was talking about these videos. The two that were posted in this thread.

And then there was the lady from PA who was interviewed on FoxNews this morning by Megyn Kelly. She wasn’t a plant; she was an invitee by the same ignoramuses who were there to do the town hall.

My opinion of this is that liberals don’t know what to do with conservatives who show up to voice their opinions. Maybe we ought to go to these meetings with purple hair or hemp pants with Che T-shirts, or dressed in bizzaro BSDM outfits so they can get be lulled into hearing the truth from someone they trust.

Heh.

Tennman on August 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM

I think the majority of people have settled that question. Yes, healthcare is constitutional. Now, the question is….can we make it work or not?

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:14 PM

No it isn’t. Can the government make it work? NO. Inefficient, way to controlling.

Ann, try FREEDOM for once.

Sapwolf on August 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM

I am. Both of my parents were from Kansas and moved to the South where I was raised.

They were definitely Mid-western. We just didn’t “cotton” to hypochondriacs, either. :) (German background. Even worse! Throw stoicism in the mix.)

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Liar. You can’t even keep your background story straight.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Who is the majority that settled that question? No, healthcare isn’t constitutional. No, we can’t make it work.

Monica on August 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Why is it that leftists don’t seem to care that all of their plans have been tried before and have failed miserably? That there’s nothing “new” or “hopeful” about it…it’s the same old crap with new faces promoting it.

It just blows my mind though. I mean if you have a major program idea, wouldn’t you first see where it’s working and then try to emulate it? Or if it doesn’t work, wouldn’t you scrap it for something that does?

How about created trials in controlled scenarios to see how the plan works on a limited scale BEFORE destroying the economy and ruining the world’s greatest health care system?

powerpro on August 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM

But we’re Mid-westerners. We just are a bit more pragmatic about stuff like this. It’s in the genes.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:12 PM

First 28 years in Illinois, 25 years in Kansas, but you and I are poles apart.

(However, I do want to complement you on your tenacity. And your ability to absorb the crap some of us throw at you.)

davidk on August 4, 2009 at 12:23 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Oh but, sweetie it is your argument to defend by opening up the door that HC was constitutional! Please provide evidence in the constitution that it is in there! What article or amendment is it? Or is it in the Declaration of Independence!

I have a suggestion since you chose not to back it up then stop making ludicrious accusations that you have NO factual evidence to make you claim!

xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Trust me, her posts are nutcase CA all the way.

Probably SF Bay Area too.

Sapwolf on August 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM

She always makes a very big deal having grown up in the south under Jim Crow laws…but now she claims that she is mid-western.

She’s nothing but a bad liar.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 12:24 PM

I think the majority of people have settled that question. Yes, healthcare is constitutional. Now, the question is….can we make it work or not?

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:14 PM

No it’s not … and no, we will not make it work.

You go buy health care for people with your own money. Leave the taxpayer out of this.

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Arlen Specter is holding town halls all over PA the next few weeks.

Should i go????

battleoflepanto1571 on August 4, 2009 at 12:24 PM

AnninCA:

Why can’t the existing Governmental systems cover the uninsured?

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Which way is it?
Either the existing governmental plans suck pondwater – proving the government couldn’t run a lemon aide stand without screwing it up.
In which case, why do we want them to do more?
Or, they do okay with the existing systems, in which case, why not use these programs to cover the uninsured?

Well, I don’t agree with that. The government does some things very well.

I just wanted a public option for people in transition. It seemed obvious to me that people who are layed off or maybe working in companies that can’t afford benefits would love to have an option.

We have 3 major class-action suits pending now against these mega-companies. Why? They have been caught taking premiums, telling people they have insurance and then purging them in the middle of treatment.

They were so busted!

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM

No it isn’t. Can the government make it work? NO. Inefficient, way to controlling.

Ann, try FREEDOM for once.

Sapwolf on August 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM

I think I’m going to design a Don’t Tread on Me t-shirt. That sentiment rings so strong in me and in so many others these days.

Funny how the threat of losing our freedoms makes us appreciate them more.

powerpro on August 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Heh.

Any NY reps having town hall meetings? I’ll go and spread the love.

looking4statesmen on August 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Quote: “Anninca needs a lobotomy”

Can’t remove what’s not there my good man.

The Ronin Edge on August 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Good one. QOTD?

Sapwolf on August 4, 2009 at 12:26 PM

think the majority of people have settled that question. Yes, healthcare is constitutional. Now, the question is….can we make it work or not?

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:14 PM

you keep saying that, ann, but show me one poll that says the “people” want obamacare?

the ONLY poll out there is the fraudulent “72%” NYT poll where they polled 75% obama voters and 25% mccain voters.

if obamacare is SO POPULAR, show me an unweighted poll that says, now, in late july-early august, 50%+ want it!

battleoflepanto1571 on August 4, 2009 at 12:26 PM

I just wanted a public option for people in transition.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Liar

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:26 PM

At least the rep in the Green Bay area is holding town hall meetings.Many DEMS in my state aren’t even going to hold them. If you are attending a meeting ANYWHERE, remember that the local unions bus in people early to fill the halls so REAL constituents can’t get in because of hall capacity.

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Arlen Specter is holding town halls all over PA the next few weeks.

Should i go????

battleoflepanto1571 on August 4, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Without question! Be sure to bring your video camera though.

powerpro on August 4, 2009 at 12:26 PM

She’s nothing but a bad liar.

Well, well…I just explained. You’re quite disingenuous. This is your idea of argumentation? Gotcha? (Even when it’s explained).

What I enjoy about blogging is that people reveal themselves. Inevitably, the agendas and mindset are revealed.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Yes even conservatives take Social Security, because they’ve paid into it- but do we have a choice? Make SS optional and see how many people jump ship. I would so in a heartbeat if I could.

evergreen on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Well, I don’t agree with that. The government does some things very well.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM

With 15 departments, 45 czars, and a trillion dollar budget, sure you can name me 10 good things?

Good luck! (i’ll be back in a week)

Here’s a head start

1. Cash for clunkers?? (*snicker*)
2.

battleoflepanto1571 on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Well, I don’t agree with that. The government does some things very well.

Please enlighten us all.

Monica on August 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Monica on August 4, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Thank you you are doing a Yeoman’s job.

People are sick of being lied to. It is obvious in these videos. The Democrats are fools if they don’t realize that they have pushed too hard & too far.

They need to slink away from this Health-care boondoggle for their own political health. Local politicians & Congressmen better realize that the DNC is only there to serve Obama & Pelosi – The DNC is sacrificing everyone & everything for Obama. It is political hara-kiri at this point for Congressman to stick with Government health-care.

batterup on August 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM

What I enjoy about blogging is that people reveal themselves. Inevitably, the agendas and mindset are revealed.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Ann, you show your agenda and mindset with every post, you lying troll.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Why is it that leftists don’t seem to care that all of their plans have been tried before and have failed miserably? That there’s nothing “new” or “hopeful” about it…it’s the same old crap with new faces promoting it.

powerpro on August 4, 2009 at 12:22 PM

And yet they get away with the complete falsehood that they “care” about people.
If they cared, they would do things that actually help people, but the best they can do is claim they have “Good intentions”.

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Yes even conservatives take Social Security, because they’ve paid into it- but do we have a choice? Make SS optional and see how many people jump ship. I would so in a heartbeat if I could.

evergreen on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Amen to that.

ladyingray on August 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM

What I enjoy about blogging is that people reveal themselves. Inevitably, the agendas and mindset are revealed.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM

No kidding. Just like you.

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Even Dave Obey is getting it from people in Wisconsin. He just turns his back. Other reason to support Sean Duffy for Congress

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OspZX8WkE8w

http://www.duffyforcongress.com

closetgop on August 4, 2009 at 12:28 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Why can’t the existing Governmental systems cover the uninsured?

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Well, I don’t agree with that. The government does some things very well.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Please give ONE thing the gov has done well and it doesn’t have to be the current admin but, can be included??????

xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM

AnninCA hasn’t told us how she would personally benefit if Obama succeeds in destroying the best health care in the world.

She said she works for a non-profit, probably La Raza, and the kickback she would get if illegals got health care would make her wealthy indeed.

So what is your stake in this Ann?

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Christian Conservative on August 4, 2009 at 12:20 PM

I’m not sure what constitutes a “senior citizen” (every time I get to the discount age, they raise it), but I’m fed up. I don’t want to go on Meda-whatever, but will be forced to do so by the giv’ment. The only “pension” I have is Social Security, but I’m not counting on it. Besides, I don’t want some young guy who’s struggling to make ends meet for his family to support me. I’d give SSI up if it meant that our children didn’thave to bear the burden for my welfare.

davidk on August 4, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Ann, you work for La Raza?

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:31 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Why can’t the existing Governmental systems cover the uninsured?

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM

We do it’s call Medicaid!

xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM

This is stupid. Pratically half of the people in those videos yelling about government take-overs are either getting Social Security or Medicare.

So, essentially it’s OK for them to get Medicare (which I don’t see people shouting to get rid of it) but not to have a choice for other people to buy into a system like that.

ckoeber on August 4, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Medicare is a hellish mess. You can’t buy insurance, only sup plans that only pay when Medicare pays. So people must either use their own funds or become a victim of government healthcare.

It is costing my relative nearly $10,000 per month out of her own pocket to live like a dog. She has long term care insurance for which she paid dearly that covers $3,000 of that. Medicare pays NOTHING. Why? because she chooses not to go into hospice, where she can live like a rat.

Some of the massive costs of Medicare are promoted by the drug companies. Many seniors are taking 50 different pills a day, with questionable results. The drug plan is a boondoggle.

Yes, we need healthcare reform, but not Obamacare. Let the people design, and decide.

eaglesdontflock on August 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:

VA Hospitals
Medicare
SSI
FEMA (used to be, anyway)
Univerity student programs/college funding programs
Medicaid
Welfare Reform support
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
Military
FBI

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Why can’t the existing Governmental systems cover the uninsured?

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Why does the government have to do anything? If people are so concerned about the “uninsured” then let them start an “Insurance Charity” and spend their own damn money instead of stealing it from us.

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

VA Hospitals
Medicare
SSI
FEMA (used to be, anyway)
Univerity student programs/college funding programs
Medicaid
Welfare Reform support
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
FBI

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

You’re crazy. Who do you work for? Which non-profit?

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:34 PM

VA Hospitals????

liberalism is a mental disorder!

Ghoul aid on August 4, 2009 at 12:35 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Why can’t the existing Governmental systems cover the uninsured?
Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM

We do it’s call Medicaid!
xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM

My question to her is that if they work SO WELL, why can’t they simply us those programs to solve the problem instead of screwing around with the rest of the Healthcare system?

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:35 PM

You know how to tell that your town-hall meeting was a flop? Your constituents start chanting to vote for … the guy you beat in the last election.

A sleeping giant awakens.

TN Mom on August 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:

VA Hospitals (Crumbling/Bad Care/Long waits)
Medicare (Broke)
SSI (Broke)
FEMA (used to be, anyway) Expensive agency/questionable report card
Univerity student programs/college funding programs (Nearly broke)
Medicaid (Broke)
Welfare Reform support (More Corruption)
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
Military (Only good one of the bunch)
FBI (Expensive/becoming wimpy/politically correct)

BROKE=OUT OF MONEY

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 12:37 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:

VA Hospitals
Medicare
SSI
FEMA (used to be, anyway)
Univerity student programs/college funding programs
Medicaid
Welfare Reform support
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
Military
FBI

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

*snicker*

davidk on August 4, 2009 at 12:37 PM

Opps..I missed Highway/Interstate (Massive Corruption)

Jeff from WI on August 4, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:

VA Hospitals
Medicare
SSI
FEMA (used to be, anyway)
Univerity student programs/college funding programs
Medicaid
Welfare Reform support
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
Military
FBI

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

I think you meant insolvent govenrment programs.

Monica on August 4, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:
VA Hospitals
Medicare

SSI
FEMA (used to be, anyway)
Univerity student programs/college funding programs
Medicaid
Welfare Reform support
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
Military
FBI
AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

ROFL!!!!
Okay, again if those healthcare programs work so Damn well, what’s the problem?
Why do they have to screw around with the rest of the system?

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:38 PM

So what is your stake in this Ann?

Well, I’ve always wanted this. So it’s a long-time interest. I’ve been a regular person in life, meaning job changes, etc. And it seemed to me that it would have been more secure if there had been some kind of plan that was available rather than focus so much attention on job/employer who offered the best benefits. I can see I might have personally taken a few more risks with smaller companies had this been around.

Second, my son is having a hard time. He’s falling through a funny crack. The only insurance plans are outrageously expensive. No way he can afford it right now. Yet he’s perfectly healthy and young enough that it’s odd.

Third, I really do see that the insurance companies were using some of the same profit-making tactics that I saw going on in finance. I don’t know why that’s happening, other than sheer greed.

Fourth, I’m outraged about the practice of taking premiums and then purging people when they file a claim.

Fifth, I think I was strongly influenced when I read that millions of dollars in one Texas hospital came down to emergency care treatment for 11 patients with chronic disease. Not all, but some of those diseases COULD have been managed had the patients had the ongoing care.

That profoundly convinced me that eventually, we’ll see savings with more ongoing care.

That sums it up pretty much.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:

VA Hospitals
Medicare
SSI
FEMA (used to be, anyway)
Univerity student programs/college funding programs
Medicaid
Welfare Reform support
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
Military
FBI

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33

AnninCA–you are a joke. Have you experienced TriCare, VA Medicine? Medicaid? How old are you? 20? 8?

I am stunned at your gall, to come in here and post drivel like this. Your only objective here is to inflame and insult.

eaglesdontflock on August 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM

You have to hand it to the Dems. Once they’ve decided upon their latest spin, the word goes out unto even the dimmest among them and they all speaketh the same.

The current spin, of course, is that opponents of Obamacare are engaging in evil scare tactics.

And – voila – dumb, wall-eyed Audrey shows up right on schedule (at 1:24 on the Kagen vid) to disgorge the message.

Good Audrey.

Have a cracker.

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:
VA Hospitals
Medicare

Medicaid
AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Okay, again if those healthcare programs work so Damn well, what’s the problem?
Why can’t those programs be used to cover the uninsured and leave the rest of us alone?

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Ok, I’m embarassed. I finally realized I’ve been arguing with someone who is clearly incapable of thinking clearly, logically or carrying on a consistent, coherent line of reasoning. I feel kind of bad now. Ok, it passed.

Monica on August 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:

VA Hospitals
Medicare
SSI
FEMA (used to be, anyway)
Univerity student programs/college funding programs
Medicaid
Welfare Reform support
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
Military
FBI

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Really VA hospitals are a MESS (Walter reed sound familiar)?
College programs are a mess and not being granted to some
Medicaid/Medicare are the problem with current HC system and doctors not being paid as well as scams. That’s why it’s running out of MONEY!
Fed Hwy systems hey moonbat bridges are falling DOWN!!!!
Welfare reform is so full of rife and the people that deserve it are getting it and the waste and theft is mindboggling
SSI another program just as the above oh and let’s not forget the dead people still getting checks
FEMA LMAO!!!! does Katrina ring any bells???
FBI/Military are way underfunded!

So do you want to try again you marxist moonbat!

Not one of these programs work only in your head!

xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM

The current spin, of course, is that opponents of Obamacare are engaging in evil scare tactics.

I don’t buy Obama’s talking points, either. But if the shoe fits, wear it.

This whole meme that the government wants to kill off old people is dispicable.

I hear the debate….and it’s a fair one. I happen to really know that hospice care can be 100% better than dying in a hospital. BUT….that doesn’t excuse the fear-mongering going on with that issue.

There is a tremendous amount of exaggeration happening.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Fifth, I think I was strongly influenced when I read that millions of dollars in one Texas hospital came down to emergency care treatment for 11 patients with chronic disease. Not all, but some of those diseases COULD have been managed had the patients had the ongoing care.

That profoundly convinced me that eventually, we’ll see savings with more ongoing care.

That sums it up pretty much.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Typical tactic of cherry picking. Save $600 billion by addressing just those few problems you mention, probably would cost about $20 billion, and leave the rest of us alone. The reason healthcare is stumbling is government intervention. Did you happen to see Krugman fall on his face asking how the Canadians liked their single payer??

eaglesdontflock on August 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM

I got a reply from Aetna concerning a job going to town hall meetings:

Hello David,

Please contact Aetna HR Services at 1-800-Aetna-HR (1-800-238-6247) for
all your staffing inquiries.

Thank you,
Mailbox Corporate

My “staffing inquiry” was:

I keep hearing on TV that the Insurance companies are paying
people to go to Congressional Members’ towhall meetings to oppose
ObamaCare. I am free on Mondays and Tuesdays to do that. How can I get
involved?

davidk on August 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:35 PM

Gotch my apologies.

3 distinct ways of fixing HC

1. Tort Reform
2. Get rid of HMO’s
3. Stop taking care of emergency room non-life threatening illegal aliens!

xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Oh, and the US Postal Service

I’m sure there are more.

IRS *haha

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Solid Gov’t Programs:

VA Hospitals
Medicare
SSI
FEMA (used to be, anyway)
Univerity student programs/college funding programs
Medicaid
Welfare Reform support
Federal Hwy/Interstate programs
Military
FBI

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:33

I was sorta confused about where Ann was coming from for a while.

Now I know.

She comes from dumb.

VA Hospitals: everyone even remotely familiar knows what a disaster they are.

Medicare, SSI, Medicaid: Bankrupt

College funding programs: keeps tuitions rising at 3x the rate of inflation year after year by artifically raising the demand for (mostly useless) college education.

Welfare reform support: not even sure what that means, but welfare reform had to happen because welfare was such a social and financial disaster.

FBI: Did a fabulous job in Waco.

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 12:44 PM

There’s one very clear difference. I believe in managed care.

I agree with the approach of finding what really works and then having an approach that’s standarized.

Lots of you guys hate that idea. But it always made sense to me.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM

No program, whether private or public, will be perfect.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM

I got a reply from Aetna concerning a job going to town hall meetings:

Hello David,

Please contact Aetna HR Services at 1-800-Aetna-HR (1-800-238-6247) for
all your staffing inquiries.

Thank you,
Mailbox Corporate
My “staffing inquiry” was:

I keep hearing on TV that the Insurance companies are paying
people to go to Congressional Members’ towhall meetings to oppose
ObamaCare. I am free on Mondays and Tuesdays to do that. How can I get
involved?
davidk on August 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM

What’s your point?

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Trust me, her posts are nutcase CA all the way.

Probably SF Bay Area too.

Sapwolf on August 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM

I;m guessing Berkely.

scalleywag on August 4, 2009 at 12:48 PM

Well, at least I entertained you guys with the opposing viewpoint yet again. *haha

I’ll let you back to your regular talk with others who agree with you.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:48 PM

With 15 departments, 45 czars, and a trillion dollar budget, sure you can name me 10 good things?

Good luck! (i’ll be back in a week)

Here’s a head start

1. Cash for clunkers?? (*snicker*)
2.

battleoflepanto1571 on August 4, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Ooh I’ll play!

2. Porkulus. URGENTLY needed to create shovel ready projects and keep unemployment under 8 percent! (*snicker*)

3.

Who wants to go next?

powerpro on August 4, 2009 at 12:49 PM

That’s just tricky stuff. Your doctor is resposible for telling you the truth of a situation. If it’s time, they know. It’s the healthcare profession’s job to help families prepare, accept, work through the process, etc.

And then there are those very odd situations where, really, nobody knows. Wait and see.

Even doctors aren’t perfect at this. They are usually right, but not always.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 11:48 AM

No… Actually a review board set up by Obama will decide what is most cost effective, not your doctor and hospital. They’ll decide best practices, and that is very concerning considering that Obama seems fixated on preventing people from getting common quality of life surgeries like removing tonsils.

Illinidiva on August 4, 2009 at 12:49 PM

Second, my son is having a hard time. He’s falling through a funny crack. The only insurance plans are outrageously expensive. No way he can afford it right now. Yet he’s perfectly healthy and young enough that it’s odd.

He’s perfect for a high deductible major medical plan. They’re very reasonable and very easy for young, healthy people to get.

problem solved.

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 12:50 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Well, I’ve always wanted this. So it’s a long-time interest. I’ve been a regular person in life, meaning job changes, etc. And it seemed to me that it would have been more secure if there had been some kind of plan that was available rather than focus so much attention on job/employer who offered the best benefits. I can see I might have personally taken a few more risks with smaller companies had this been around.

So you want rewards commensurate with “risk” but not to suffer the consequences should “risk” go south. In other words, to be insulated from the consequences of your actions. Typical.

News flash: The reason risk and potential reward have a direct relationship is BECAUSE of the possible loss, not in spite of it. The extra potential is to offset the increased possibility of loss.

Second, my son is having a hard time. He’s falling through a funny crack. The only insurance plans are outrageously expensive. No way he can afford it right now. Yet he’s perfectly healthy and young enough that it’s odd.

Yes, my parents are having a hard time too. They were hounded out of their jobs in the financial sector due to political gamesmanship from the current Administration. They have a mortgage and two cars and no way they can afford them right now…so why SHOULDN’T the taxpayers foot the bill for a Lifetime Channel Movie Moment. Gawd.

Third, I really do see that the insurance companies were using some of the same profit-making tactics that I saw going on in finance. I don’t know why that’s happening, other than sheer greed.

Frankly, I have my doubts as to whether you are “seeing” much of anything. Given your, shall we say, questionable bona fides over something as simple as ancestry, why should anyone think your word for what you “saw” means anything.

Policy based on anecdote is the weakest, and so far all you’ve offered is anecdote.

Fourth, I’m outraged about the practice of taking premiums and then purging people when they file a claim.

I’m outraged by people who lie on insurance forms to get coverage and then expect a taxpayer bailout when their fraud is discovered.

Fifth, I think I was strongly influenced when I read that millions of dollars in one Texas hospital came down to emergency care treatment for 11 patients with chronic disease. Not all, but some of those diseases COULD have been managed had the patients had the ongoing care.

Really? How many, and what’s the cost, both actual and opportunity?

That profoundly convinced me that eventually, we’ll see savings with more ongoing care.

If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it’s free. Because I’ll tell you sister, in a government-run system you’ll have rationing that will make any complaint you have now look like whining over how many chocolate chips are in your cookie.

That sums it up pretty much.

Yes, it does….and it’s that the world owes you a living.

JohnTant on August 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM

ANN:

VA, Medicare, Medicaid = “Govt health care”, which is financially a FAILURE

Why list fema if its not anymore? The citizens of New Orleans might disagree

‘welfare reform support’…. where is this office? is there an address i can mail them at? i have no idea what this is, though im assuming youre talking about your beloved bill clinton ‘fixing welfare’ (with a gop congresss)

SSI – i think its a good idea, but how is it a program? its my understanding its basically saying “ok youre blind, here’s some cash”.

i love the interstate program, but its rank with corruption and political influence: why are there a million divided multilane highways in murtha’s district but virtually none in the dakotas, new mexico, etc. theres not a very efficient way at fixing highways either, priority wise; I-95 has needed improvements for decades

so now we’re down to “military, FBI, university funding”. i like the idea of student loans, but havent messed with them, so i dont know whether the program is solvent or not. obviously the military is a good thing, but much of it is because the military is set apart — its basically its own thing in a lot of ways

which leaves us with the FBI.

Congrats. The FBI is something government “does well” (well, except for catching anyone or anything related to 911 including lots of sleeper cells from the first ’93 wtc bombing to now)

but overall, FBI=good. I agree.

SUCCESS ANN!

battleoflepanto1571 on August 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 12:46 PM

The libs & co. claim that the people protesting at the townhall meetings were paid by the ins co’s, so I thought since I was going anyway I’g just well get paid for it.

davidk on August 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM

All those bitter, clingy people excercising that Democracy stuff better watch out…marshall law is not out of the question. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated…

Wyznowski on August 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM

Fourth, I’m outraged about the practice of taking premiums and then purging people when they file a claim.

Who’s engaging in scare tactics now? Show me when that has ever happened.

I’ve been negotiating and administering health insurance plans for 25 years, for as many as 21,000 employees.

Never once has a plan terminated one of my employees.

Quite the opposite. At one company, we had a $9.00/hr cleaning lady who needed a bone marrow transplant. It didn’t go well and she needed an experimental drug which cost $20,000 a month in order to have any chance of survival.

That drug was not on the plan formulary, so the insurance company had every right to tell her to curl up and die.

They approved the drug. The same day.

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 12:52 PM

hainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:35 PM

Gotch my apologies.

That’s okay

3 distinct ways of fixing HC
1. Tort Reform
2. Get rid of HMO’s
3. Stop taking care of emergency room non-life threatening illegal aliens!
xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Agreed. The direction has to be towards free-market solutions. It’s really unbelievable that some still have faith in big government.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to recognize that this plan will be like every other Big government solution, right Ann?

Oh, BTW, AnninCA thinks that anyone who’s concerned about how we are going to pay for all this largess is an idiot.

I guess it takes one to know one.

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:53 PM

That sums it up pretty much.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM

so ann, how is replacing a private company that ‘decides your fate and drops your coverage’ DIFFERENT than a GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRAT that ‘decides your fate and drops your coverage’????????????????????????

seriously. that’s my main issue (among many) — even if these plans actually worked, we’re replacing the devil we know (bluecross blue sheild denying care, to which i can leave and go to another insurer) with the devil we dont knwo (obama’s ‘health board’)!

battleoflepanto1571 on August 4, 2009 at 12:53 PM

The libs & co. claim that the people protesting at the townhall meetings were paid by the ins co’s, so I thought since I was going anyway I’g just well get paid for it.

davidk on August 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM

Well, your comment could have been read to assert that the response you got confirmed the conspiracy theory.

From my view as a former corporate guy, your respondent just thought your message was weird and he palmed you off to the proper department – HR – who would promptly make you go away.

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 12:54 PM

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Managed Care is what has broken the system go educate yourself and read up on Kaisergate with Edgar Kaiser and Richard Nixon!

xler8bmw on August 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Really VA hospitals are a MESS (Walter reed sound familiar)?

That’s not a VA hospital, that’s a military hospital. Health care is one thing the military isn’t very good at, mainly because there’s much better money to be made in the private sector. Speaking of government run health care programs, ask a military dependent how they like Tricare.

Pablo on August 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Second, my son is having a hard time. He’s falling through a funny crack. The only insurance plans are outrageously expensive. No way he can afford it right now. Yet he’s perfectly healthy and young enough that it’s odd.

Maybe Ogabe should re-title his bill the “Paying for Ann’s under-achieving slacker son’s healthcare” Act.

guntotinglibertarian on August 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM

I got a reply from Aetna concerning a job going to town hall meetings:

Hello David,

Please contact Aetna HR Services at 1-800-Aetna-HR (1-800-238-6247) for
all your staffing inquiries.

Thank you,
Mailbox Corporate

My “staffing inquiry” was:

I keep hearing on TV that the Insurance companies are paying
people to go to Congressional Members’ towhall meetings to oppose
ObamaCare. I am free on Mondays and Tuesdays to do that. How can I get
involved?

Hahaha.

I asked a very similar question this morning when I was accused of being health insurance lobbyist.

Hey sign me up for this crazy lobbyist money for going to town hall meetings. I could use the extra cash.

peterargus on August 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM

That profoundly convinced me that eventually, we’ll see savings with more ongoing care.

That sums it up pretty much.

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM

So, you’re profoundly convinced that the burden of taking care of your needs should be placed squarely on the backs of others and their pockets.

If you had done a modicum of research, you see insurance is expensive because of government regulation and millions of illegals. Government dictates what insurnace companies must cover … not you, forcing the price higher and higher. Care for illegals forces hospitals to raise fees and charges which in turn forces insurance companies to raise premiums.

The insurance companies aren’t the bad guys … the government is, and you as well for expecting the overtaxed workers of this country to take care of you.

What non-profit do you work for?

darwin on August 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM

I don’t think all of this is going to matter in the long run…they have plans for us bigger than just Obamacare. But I’m cynical and paranoid I guess.

Social Security-I always like to remind folks when this comes up that billions have been siphoned out of Social Security for decades through SSI payments. Sure, it helps young people that really need it…but why didn’t it come from a different fund/appropriation?

I had a good friend (deceased now) who abused alcohol and drugs, and was manic depressive. I got to see the “inside” of the SSI world.

The vast majority of people I met were fairly young (middle-aged I suppose). They had messed themselves up with drugs and alcohol and were no longer able to function in society, hold down jobs, etc. They got government housing/apartments, subsistence, doctors visits, their meds and what have you. They sat around all day smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee and watching TV.

These people had not paid into the Social Security System for very long (assuming they had real jobs for any length of time to begin with).

No such system can work when a huge chunk, maybe even the majority, of people who benefit from it never pay anything into it.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Oh, and the US Postal Service

AnninCA on August 4, 2009 at 12:44 PM

You ought to take that comedy act on the road.

Do You REALLY think the postal service is a solid program?

Newsflash, the only way they stay in business is that they have a governmental Monopoly over mailboxes.

Chainsaw56 on August 4, 2009 at 12:58 PM

No such system can work when a huge chunk, maybe even the majority, of people who benefit from it never pay anything into it.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Especially when government officials regularly raid the coffers to pay for their pet projects.

powerpro on August 4, 2009 at 12:59 PM

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