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Yon on the Rules of Engagement

posted at 2:17 pm on August 3, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Michael Yon continues to report from the front lines in Afghanistan, both in pictures and words.  Michael has not been terribly sanguine about the progress or the prospects of the war, although the men on the line have performed magnificently.  In a telling anecdote, Yon describes the discipline of British troops in adhering to the rules of engagement:

Word comes a little later that the Taliban are saying we bombed people who were eating watermelon in a field.  The Afghans responded by telling us this was a lie, because they know how careful the British and Americans are with their fires, and they also knew that Afghans do not sit in fields around here this late at night eating watermelon.

I’ve witnessed too many missions (several in the last week) wherein British or Americans refused to fire because they could not positively spot a weapon, despite it being flagrantly obvious that we were tracking actual enemies.  It’s very frustrating for me at times because I want to say to an American or British commander…Take the shot!  This is too obvious!  But that is not the place of a writer.  The strategic wisdom behind the Rules of Engagement can be difficult to contest, though tactically, those same ROE can be fantastically frustrating.  Tactically, the restrictive ROE endanger our troops every day, but strategically there is no doubt that strong ROE save the lives of even more.

Later, Michael interviews an officer in Afghanistan’s growing army about the prospects for lasting democracy in Helmand Province, and in Afghanistan in general:

I asked Colonel Wadood if the people of Afghanistan understand Democracy and he said yes, but not the people of Helmand, who “understand only Swordocracy,” and everyone laughed.  And then spontaneously, Colonel Wadood said, “We have the best Democracy with Islam.  Our religion is one of brotherhood and oneness.  Our religion is about equality, no status.”  He said these things, and more.  Colonel Wadood continued, pausing long enough for me to write, “Women have the right to education, to have a job, to be a candidate in elections.”  Colonel Wadood paused, and continued, “If we applied these things it is the perfect democracy and perfect religion.  Killing people is forbidden.  Drug trafficking is forbidden.  Cruelty and brutality is forbidden.  Attacks that Taliban execute are all against Islam and Sharia.  The best Muslim never harms anyone with his eyes, his tongue or with his hands.  He should only be useful not harmful.  We cannot kill infidels without reason.  But if they invade our honor, our religion, our land or our pride, we can kill them.  Same condition applies to Muslim too.  If he does these things we can kill him.”

Our land is a relatively reasonable threshold; most Americans would feel free to kill invaders, too, and defend that right of national defense in general.  It’s the honor, pride, and religion thresholds that are the reason we’re over there in the first place.  That’s been the thresholds used for the tribal conflicts in Afghanistan that stretch back into antiquity.  Wadood has been in the military for 30 years, and has yet to see a day of peace in his country.

Be sure to read the entire dispatch.  Don’t forget that Michael survives on reader donations, and hit his tip jar generously to keep the dispatches from the front lines coming to your desk.


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I have a feeling that the term, “Rules of Engagement,” was unknown in the Pacific, during World War 2.

OhEssYouCowboys on August 3, 2009 at 2:31 PM

And then spontaneously, Colonel Wadood said, “We have the best Democracy with Islam. Our religion is one of brotherhood and oneness. Our religion is about equality, no status. Blah, blah, blah … …”

And what alternate reality is this Colonel Wadood living in? Oh, that’s right, the alternate reality called Islam. With “allies” like this who needs enemies?

Luka on August 3, 2009 at 2:32 PM

“We have the best Democracy with Islam.”

Translation – We are only allowed to kill those who do not agree with us.

OhEssYouCowboys on August 3, 2009 at 2:33 PM

I have a feeling that the term, “Rules of Engagement,” was unknown in the Pacific, during World War 2.

OhEssYouCowboys on August 3, 2009 at 2:31 PM

The “Rules of Engagement” were Find ‘um, frag ‘um and forget ‘um.

Luka on August 3, 2009 at 2:34 PM

Yon is doing continues to do extraordianry work.

Methinks, however, Wadood should read the Koran.

davidk on August 3, 2009 at 2:34 PM

If we have a CinC who doesn’t have the balls to allow his forces to fight proactively, what is the point of being there? A pussifist pacifist can not be CinC.

Monica on August 3, 2009 at 2:36 PM

David Petraeus, what is he up to.

tomas on August 3, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Tactically, the restrictive ROE endanger our troops every day, but strategically there is no doubt that strong ROE save the lives of even more.

Yeah, enemy lives.

Johan Klaus on August 3, 2009 at 2:40 PM

I have a feeling that the term, “Rules of Engagement,” was unknown in the Pacific, during World War 2.

OhEssYouCowboys on August 3, 2009 at 2:31 PM

My first inclination is to agree, but there were probably all kinds of rules meant to avoid friendly fire incidents, and, when fighting went into populated areas, there had to be some rules of how to deal with civilians, in accordance with the Geneva conventions.
It can be hard, knowing that the rules can decrease our solders’ ability to defend themselves in some cases, but they can sometimes be the whole point of doing something in the first place.

Count to 10 on August 3, 2009 at 2:43 PM

This is the true form of fighting under democratic control, we have sent unarmed jets into battle, unarmed helicopters and advisors that are unarmed. We will have to check with washington before anyone pulls a trigger soon, to be sure we don’t hurt anyone. This action will get our folks killed and then the democrats will start pointing fingers at the military. We will pull out of all of our missions and then the terrorists will be on our soil killing us all close and personal. We need to stop this mentality before it kills our military and us.

workingforpigs on August 3, 2009 at 2:44 PM

Tactically, the restrictive ROE endanger our troops every day, but strategically there is no doubt that strong ROE save the lives of even more.

Yeah, enemy lives.

Johan Klaus on August 3, 2009 at 2:40 PM

I don’t want to defend stupid rules of engagement, but we are talking a situation here where the ultimate goal is to have these people work together to defend themselves in cooperation with us. Not giving them reason to believe we are trying to kill them all is kind of important to that.

Count to 10 on August 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Count to 10 on August 3, 2009 at 2:43 PM

Just look at our retaking of Manila. The method of Japanese resistance, which included the slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians – intentionally – left us with no option but to reduce the city, wherever Japanese could be found. At Normandy, several thousand civilians were killed. Sometimes, it just can’t be helped.

Of course, the leveling of whole cities, in bombing raids, was business as usual.

OhEssYouCowboys on August 3, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Hawkdriver commented on 7/24 and said they aren’t fighting to win. He didn’t expand on the comment but he seemed really down.

Cindy Munford on August 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM

OhEssYouCowboys on August 3, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Still, I don’t think that there was a complete absence of rules for determining if the thing you have your gun pointed at is friend or foe, and it isn’t like they went through the cities killing everything that moved.
They might not have been as restrictive, and I don’t know if they were call “Rules Of Engagement”, but they had to have some form of them.

Count to 10 on August 3, 2009 at 2:55 PM

UGH.

I am so frustrated with strategy in Afghanistan.

What is the goal? Long term?

Why do we allow sharia law to be in place?

Why are fighting for the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan if we are merely re-instituting a new Taliban with thinner burkas and better Satellite TVs?

It seems to me the point ought to be this:

1. Kill the Taliban. If they have human sheilds, screw it. If they hide out in villages, too bad. Kill the taliban at any chance you get. Apply the actual “Bush Doctrine” (sorry charlie gibson) on a local level. If you harbor taliban, you will die a taliban-like death.

2. Carpet bomb Wazirstan/FATA in Pakistsan. Tell the Pakistani government “you signed truces with the Taliban and said ‘you guys govern yourselves’ in about 2007; therefore, it’s basically not your territory anymore, its a de-facto Taliban govt in the NW frontier. The FATA is neither federal nor administered”.

3. Tell Afghanistan “either give women full rights of property, freedom to wear what you want, and anyone freedom to leave islam and proselytize for any religion TOMORROW or we leave the next day. we are not dying so that you can impose a new caliphate”

4. Repeat until adversaries surrender.

battleoflepanto1571 on August 3, 2009 at 2:56 PM

“Now you have narco drug lords who are helping to finance the Taliban, so we’ve got to get the job done there, and that requires us to have enough troops that we are not just air raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there,’’ Obama said.

blatantblue on August 3, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Hawkdriver commented on 7/24 and said they aren’t fighting to win. He didn’t expand on the comment but he seemed really down.

Cindy Munford on August 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM

That is worrying. ROE is one thing, but ‘not fighting to win’ his how Vietnam got screwed up, and it had a lot more to do with the overall strategy than the tactics.

Count to 10 on August 3, 2009 at 2:57 PM

air raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there,’’ Obama said.

that used to be hannitys opening; it was dang effective too. why’d he stop it

battleoflepanto1571 on August 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM

What you do is you take out as many tally villages with as many afghans as you can…even if they aren’t well know or high profile.

Not just drones but overrun them with occupying forces…then you get bigger and bigger in who and where you take out.

Ground up. It helps the afghans learn and it is something they accomplished.

tomas on August 3, 2009 at 3:08 PM

The Obama Administration whines and cries over the deaths of enemy terrorists posing as “civilians”. Strange that an administration which has no compunction when it comes to mass abortions or proposing a health care system designed to eliminate old people and birth-defected babies has such compassion for enemy terrorists, Gitmo psychopaths and convicted criminals.

Best way to handle Afghanistan. Tell Obama that the Taliban terrorists are scheduled late-term abortions and that US soldiers are all convicted criminals.

MaiDee on August 3, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Count to 10 on August 3, 2009 at 2:57 PM

He was suggesting we start working on getting the kids out of there. My husband is a VN vet, that suggestion is hard for me to hear. The “Peace with Honor” lost it’s luster with the fall of Saigon.

Cindy Munford on August 3, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Don’t forget that Michael survives on reader donations, and hit his tip jar generously to keep the dispatches from the front lines coming to your desk.

Done.

Asher on August 3, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Oh, and I loved the dispatches from the Philippines. I have a friend that does missionary work around Davao City and it was the best coverage I’ve seen on what’s going on in Mindanao.

Asher on August 3, 2009 at 3:28 PM

David Petraeus, what is he up to.

tomas on August 3, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Reading up on Cincinnatus

bill30097 on August 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM

Too much money is owed the Saudis to go running around offending Muslims by defending ourselves. This part of the Saudi/Sunni plan is meant to destroy the moral of the armed forces who are now no more than targets for Muslims. But it is nice that Islam is respected isn’t it? It is what we are laying down our childrens lives for now.

BL@KBIRD on August 3, 2009 at 3:38 PM

David Petraeus, what is he up to.

tomas on August 3, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Probably at his summer place here in NH. He lives in one of the most beautiful towns in the state.

Del Dolemonte on August 3, 2009 at 4:09 PM

No wonder we haven’t “won” a war since 1945

Bevan on August 3, 2009 at 4:21 PM

The “Rules of Engagement” were Find ‘um, frag ‘um and forget ‘um.

Luka on August 3, 2009 at 2:34 PM

No wonder we haven’t “won” a war since 1945

Bevan on August 3, 2009 at 4:21 PM

That and our traitorous ‘news’ media.

Dark-Star on August 3, 2009 at 6:38 PM

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